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Open thread

by Goldy — Friday, 7/7/06, 10:51 am

Conspiracy theories surrounding Ken Lay’s death are starting to get some traction over on Huffington Post.

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53 Stoopid Comments

Comments

  1. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 10:55 am

    Dead men tell no tales.

  2. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:08 am

    RECRUITERS ALLOW HATE GROUPS TO INFILTRATE U.S. MILITARY

    The New York Times reports today the military, unable to meet recruiting goals, has relaxed the zero-tolerance policy of the Clinton era and is allowing members of hate groups to join the military.

    “A decade after the Pentagon declared a zero-tolerance policy for racist hate groups, recruiting shortfalls caused by the war in Iraq have allowed ‘large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists’ to infiltrate the military, according to a watchdog organization.

    “The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks racist and right-wing militia groups, estimated that the numbers could run into the thousands, citing interviews with Defense Department investigators and reports and postings on racist Web sites and magazines.

    “‘We’ve got Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad,’ the group quoted a Defense Department investigator as saying in a report to be posted today on its Web site, http://www.splcenter.org. ‘That’s a problem.’

    …

    “The report said that neo-Nazi groups … sought to enroll followers in the Army to get training for a race war. … The report quotes Scott Barfield, a Defense Department investigator, saying, ‘Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis and white supremacists to join the armed forces, and commanders don’t remove them from the military even after we positively identify them as extremists or gang members. … They don’t want to make a big deal again about neo-Nazis in the military,’ he said, ‘because then parents who are already worried about their kids signing up and dying in Iraq are going to be even more reluctant … if they feel they’ll be exposed to gangs and white supremacists.'”

    ” … the report said Mr. Barfield, who is based at Fort Lewis, Wash., had said that he had provided evidence on 320 extremists there in the past year, but that only two had been discharged. He also said there was an online network of neo-Nazis.

    “‘They’re communicating with each other about weapons, about recruiting, about keeping their identities secret, about organizing within the military,’ he said. …”

    For complete story and/or copyright info, see http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07.....38;emc=rss

    Here is the direct link to SPLC: http://www.splcenter.org/

  3. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:10 am

    This may shed light on the rash of atrocities by U.S. soldiers in Iraq — don’t be surprised if the perps turn out to be skinheads, neo-Nazis, and rightwing militiamen, now decked out in military uniforms and issued military weapons, and arrogating to themselves a license to kill “towelheads” (including unarmed women, children, and babies).

  4. Daddy Love spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:19 am

    So we’re recruiting gangsters and cultists because no one in their right mind will go to Iraq….great…

  5. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:20 am

    Quoting Goldy at Huffington:

    “As a Democrat I suppose I should be proud that my party tends to shy away from such wacky, over-the-top character assassination — you know, like characterizing a war hero who left three limbs on the battlefield as a coward and a traitor. But I’m not so sure it’s good strategy. If we hope to compete, I’m not so sure we can afford to reject even the vilest of Karl Rove’s tactics. Republicans have proven again and again that heartless, shameless slander can help win elections.”

    I have to agree, Goldy! If we don’t stop coddling these Republican criminals, the Republicans will accuse us of being soft on crime.

  6. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:20 am

    4

    That’s the size of it.

  7. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:21 am

    4 (continued)

    The down-moralizing of the U.S. military is being brought to you by the same folks who “changed the culture” in Washington D.C.

  8. Mark The Redneck spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:26 am

    All you moonbats who are on the side of the terrorists must be pissed today after yer boys got caught plotting to blow up Holland Tunnel.

    Here’s the real question: How did the FBI get the information? Did they get court orders? Were the terrorists “civil rights” violated? Is this another example of an out of control administration? How many of you think we should let these guys go and maybe even let them do the deed because it wasn’t “fair” how we caught them.

    Looking forward to your answers. Let me have it…

  9. Daddy Love spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:27 am

    I got my IPCC report CDs!

    “Recent studies comparing reconstructions of surface temperature and natural (solar and volcanic) radiative forcing (e.g., Lean et al., 1995; Crowley and Kim, 1996, 1999; Overpeck et al., 1997; Mann et al., 1998; Damon and Peristykh, 1999; Free and Robock, 1999; Waple et al., 2001) suggest that a combination of solar and volcanic influences have affected large-scale temperature in past centuries. The primary features of the Northern Hemisphere mean annual temperature histories of Mann et al. (1999a) and Crowley and Lowery (2000) from AD 1000 to 1900 have been largely reproduced based on experiments using an Energy Balance Model forced by estimates of these natural radiative forcings (Crowley, 2000; Mann, 2000) making the argument that the “Little Ice Age” and “Medieval Warm Period”, at the hemispheric mean scale, are consistent with estimates of naturally-forced climate variability. Several studies indicate that the combined effect of these influences has contributed a small component to the warming of the 20th century. Most of these studies isolate greenhouse radiative forcing as being dominant during late 20th century warming (see Crowley, 2000). This argues against a close empirical relationship between certain sun-climate parameters and large-scale temperature that has been claimed for the 20th century (Hoyt and Schatten, 1997). “

  10. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:31 am

    JCH IS GONNA BE A MOVIE STAR!!!

    In a previous thread, JCH posted:

    “Infamous Enumclaw horse sex case to be made into movie. … Seattle filmmaker Robinson Devor has begun filming this month for his new documentary, ‘In the Forest There Is Every Kind of Bird.’ The film examines the widely reported 2005 incident of a man in Enumclaw … who died after having sex with a horse.” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 7/7/06@ 9:45 am

    I just received word that Devor has signed JCH to play the horse.

  11. Daddy Love spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:32 am

    MTR

    New week, an new “terror attack. Of course, none of these guys are even in teh US, and the plan was not advanced and never moved beyond the discussion stage. According to a counter-terrorism official with knowledge of the plot, the plotters never cased the tunnels, never had any bomb-making materials to pull off the job, and were not even located in the U.S., but rather overseas.

    Yeah, good thing we got ’em before they imagined blowing up the White House.

  12. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:33 am

    8

    “Looking forward to your answers. Let me have it… ” Commentby Mark The Redneck— 7/7/06@ 11:26 am

    Happy to oblige — You don’t need a court order to wiretap non-U.S. citizens in Lebanon, dumbass.

  13. N in Seattle spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:33 am

    RR notes that “dead men tell no tales”.

    Neither do they pay criminal penalties, as I recall. Not that Lay’s principal victims — the employees of Enron, whose “golden years” pensions he chewed up and spit out while lining his own and his cronies’ pockets — were ever going to see a dime of what he syole from them.

  14. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:37 am

    Hey Mark, while you’re here, I have a few questions for YOU, good buddy:

    1) When are you going to pay the bet you lost to Goldy?
    2) When are you gonna support the troops, you unpatriotic fuck? You know what I’m referring to, cheapskate: http://www.operation-helmet.org/
    3) Why did you marry a crack whore?
    4) Did you fall for her because she was the first girl who ever paid any attention to you?
    5) Why did you have her killed? I mean, why not just pay the

    F I V E H U N D R E D T H O U S A N D D O L L A R S

    and let it go, man, and move on?

    (snicker)
    (snort)

    (pause)

    (raucous rabbit laughter in background)

    HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

  15. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:41 am

    Darcy Burner hugs rabbits! Why won’t Rubberstamp Reichert hug a rabbit? Does he hate small furry animals, or is he just too stupid?

  16. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 11:51 am

    ROGER RABBIT POLL

    Which candidate will do a better job of representing you in Congress?

    [ ] 1. Darcy Burner, Democrat http://www.merchantsbay.com/eI.....t_Full.jpg

    [ ] 2. Brand X Candidate http://img.epinions.com/images.....zed200.jpg

  17. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 12:01 pm

    I see in today’s news that Kenny Lay’s family plans to burn the evidence … er, I mean … cremate the remains.

  18. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 12:02 pm

    Roger Rabbit has posted 72.2% of the comments in this thread.

  19. Libertarian spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 12:11 pm

    Does anyone think there’s a conspiracy behind Ken Lay’s death? Could it be that his time was up, and he died of heart disease, a big killer of people in his age category?

    Does anyone think HIllary and Bill had Vince Foster killed?

    Who shot JFK?

    This conspiracy theory crap is just that: crap!

  20. Libertarian spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 12:20 pm

    N in Seattle,

    I don’t believe the Enron folks had a pension plan in place. I think they had a defined contribution plan (like a 401K), and where Lay hurt Enron’s employees was encouraging them to buy Enron stock in their 401K’s while he, Jeff and the boys were taking profits byt selling their shares.

    Peter Lynch, of Fidelity Mutual Funds, said insider buying was more significant than insider selling of a company’s stock. I believe it was in his book , “One Up on Wall Street,” where he made that statement. Given the events with Enron and others, I’d say insider selling is a lot more significant than Peter Lynch thinks it is!

  21. Ex-MSFTer spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 12:52 pm

    Vince Foster’s cousin killed Ken Lay.

  22. Daddy Love spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:00 pm

    I think we all know that Ken Lay was killed in Crawford and then moved to Aspen.

  23. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:13 pm

    Libertarian at 20: The problem is that Enron bought a lot of utility companies in the last two or three years of its existence. Some of these were utilities that had been in existence for fifty years or more, and workers had traditional pension plans which would have paid them close to their full salaries upon retirement. Instead, they were forced to accept a conversion of the traditional pension plans into 401(k) plans, which the company funded with (surprise!) mostly Enron stock. So these were not willing purchasers. Of course the company made lots of representations about how much better they would do under the new plan…..

  24. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:29 pm

    # 2, 3, & 4: The former soldier arrested for the (alledged) rape of a teenage girl and the (alleged) murder of a family in Iraq had failed to advance beyond the tenth grade, despite being in school for 12 years, much of it in (by coincidence) Midland, Texas. When he was accepted by the Army, he had recently been arrested on an alchohol charge.

    Just a couple of years ago, the Army would never have accepted a 10th grade dropout, nor would they have accepted anyone until all criminal charges had been finally disposed. I think this speaks volumes to the problems our military is facing now. I am genuinley worried that George Bush and his principles, Rove, Cheney, and Rumsfield (all three of whom never served a day in the military), have managed to “break” what was, just a few years ago, the finest military organization in the world.

    Currently Iran and N. Korea are flipping the finger at our protests against their nuclear programs, because they know that our military can barely maintain its presence in Iraq and Afganistan, and is in no position to engage in any military campaign elswhere. More importantly, our national credibility in tatters, we are no longer able to exert our influence to compel other nations to act in alliance with us to counter these threats. Having told the would that we would go it alone in Iraq despite their protests, the nations of the world are quite happy to let us go it alone in future engagements, also.

    The real danger now is in the Tiawan straights. If the aging Chinese leadership decides that they want to use military force to compel reunification with Tiawan in their lifetime, our military will be in a very poor position to pose a credible deterrent. Without a credible deterrent, an actual war is more likely to occur. A war with China could be a long and difficult one – we cannot invade and occupy China, and they likewise cannot do the same to us. But they can invade and occupy Tiawan, leaving to us the problem of trying to get them out once they are there. In such a scenario they will be only a few hundred miles from their main supply/logistics bases, we will be thousands of miles from ours.

  25. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:31 pm

    Correction: “would” should be “world”.

  26. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:35 pm

    “Infamous Enumclaw horse sex case to be made into movie. … Seattle filmmaker Robinson Devor has begun filming this month for his new documentary, ‘In the Forest There Is Every Kind of Bird.’ The film examines the widely reported 2005 incident of a man in Enumclaw … who died after having sex with a horse.” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 7/7/06@ 9:45 am

    I just received word that Devor has signed JCH to play the horse.

    Commentby Roger Rabbit [………………………………………….RR, Did you just make this up? Wow, you are one smart Democrat!! hehe, JCH Kennedy]

  27. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:37 pm

    From the BBC’s Timeline on North Korea:
    1994 – North Korea agrees to freeze nuclear programme in return for $5bn worth of free fuel and two nuclear reactors.
    North Korean leader Kim Jong-il claps as he inspects Korean People’s Army Unit 147 at an unidentified location, seen in this undated picture released by Korea News Service in Tokyo June 16, 2006. Japan enacted a bill on Friday requiring the government to impose economic sanctions on North Korea if Pyongyang does not return Japanese abductees Tokyo believes are still alive in the secretive communist state. JAPAN OUT FOR EDITORIAL USE ONLY REUTERS/Korea News Service (NORTH KOREA) 2003 – Pyongyang claims that it has produced enough plutonium to start making nuclear bombs.

    From Neville Chamberlain’s speech in October 1938 after signing the Munich Agreement which gave Hitler the Sudetanland in return for his promise not to take any more territory:
    We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and … thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe.

    From PBS’ Newshour with Jim Lehrer, October 30, 2000. Lehrer asks Secretary of State Madeline Albright, who has just returned from a visit with North Korea’s Kim Jong-il to discuss the growing threat of offensive missiles, what she found out:
    Well, he’s basically prepared to look at some kind of an exchange in terms of this idea that he actually originally had raised with [Russian] President Putin about if we would launch some peaceful satellites for him instead. But he basically, I think, is prepared to take some important steps.

    From the BBC’s “On This Day” website for September 1:
    1939: Germany invades Poland; German forces have invaded Poland and its planes have bombed Polish cities, including the capital, Warsaw.

    From the LA Times, Wednesday, July 5, 2006:
    Defying broad international pressure, North Korea test-fired at least six missiles into the Sea of Japan today, including a long-range Taepodong 2 that has been the focus of tension because of its purported ability to reach U.S. territory.

    Chamberlain 1938: I believe it is peace for our time.

    Albright 2000: Kim Jong-il is “prepared to take some important steps.”

    January 29, 2002: George W. Bush in the State of the Union address North Korea, Iran, and Iraq, “constitute an axis of evil.”

    Albright, quoted by the BBC, “called Mr. Bush’s comments ‘a big mistake'”.

    If we’ve learned anything over the past century it is this: You cannot make a deal with a madman.

    You can make a deal with a madman but you can’t then feign surprise or disappointment when the madman pays no attention to the deal you believed you had cut.

    Madmen, in history, have had some trouble grasping the underlying meaning of deliberations, agreements, and communiqués.

    Leaving Hitler with his army in 1938 was like leaving a tiger in a cage with a lamb. Leaving Jong-il with his missiles was like leaving Hitler with his army.

  28. Libertarian spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 1:42 pm

    rhp6063,

    If traditonal plans were converted to defined contribution plans, the employees affected did not follow a primary lesson of investing: diversification. Nobody in their right mind should put all of his or her retirement assets into one stock, and that includes every company everywhere.

    A lot of employees aren’t sophisticated in investment decisions, but there are lots of good people in the business to help develop a good financial plan for retirment. Plus there are tons of books at Borders and other stores to help out. This episode is another example of how we all need to take responsibility for our futures.

  29. ArtFart spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 2:12 pm

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if right now, Dubya’s two good buddies Osama and Kenny Boy were hoisting a couple of nice cool mojitos on beach chairs in some tropical paradise, debating about whether to have the lobster or the cracked crab, and laughing their asses off at the rest of us.

  30. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 2:24 pm

    23

    “Of course the company made lots of representations about how much better they would do under the new plan….. ” Commentby rhp6033— 7/7/06@ 1:13 pm

    Very similar to the representations Bush makes about how much better workers allegedly would do under “private accounts” than under Social Security …

  31. Roger Rabbit spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 2:24 pm

    You might call Bush’s privatization plan the “Enronization” of Social Security.

  32. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:02 pm

    Libertarian at 28: It depends upon the choices offered under the 401(k) plan. Not all plans are equal, and some are downright dissapointing.

    The article I read (several years ago) about the plight of utility workers swalloed up by Enron didn’t give a lot of details, and I’m not real confident of my memory regarding the details it did give.

    Employers are required to have an independent administrator for their 401(k) plans. But often those administators are not truly independent, because they know that the only way they will remain administrators of the plan is if they keep the company CEO, CFO, and key directors happy. There are lots of stories about CEO’s getting preferred status in initial public offerings, etc., in order to maintain favor so the 401(k) administrator can maintain that “favor”. Since they are paid not by the company, but from an “administrative fee” imposed on the 401(k) contributions themselves, they administrators desire the business. They don’t have to do very much, there is absolutely no risk to them, and they get to collect a fee based on the percentage of assets they “manage”, regardless of the investment outcome.

    So in my own company, the 401(k) plan offers just five funds in which we can invest. Four of them are basically bond funds, one is a general stock fund, and one is an overseas stock fund. The three bond funds, upon investigation, turned out to be mutual funds organized and managed by (suprise) the same bank which administers our 401(k) plan. We have just been informed that starting next year we will be able to invest in three more “growth” funds, which are also mutual funds organized and managed by “surprise” the bank which administers our 401(k) plan. These will replace the only two equity funds previously offered, one domestic and one an overseas fund, as our plan administrators indicated that they were “dissapointed in the potential future returns from those funds”. They didn’t mention if they were referring to our potential future returns, or theirs. Our rate of return for the past ten years has been about the same as if we had invested the money into a money-market CD for that same period, even if we had picked the best-performing of the five funds.

    So when the article loosly said that the 401(k)’s were funded by Enron stock, I’m not so quick to assume that it was by choice of the employees. The fund managers, who were hired by Enron management, may have invested heavily their funds in Enron stock in a way which was not readily apparant to the employees, and which may have been in collusion with the Enron management. I’ve found that while I can see historically what my own mutual funds were invested in in the past, it is quite difficult to see what they are currently invested in, and they darn sure aren’t going to tell you which stocks they plan to buy in the future. So quite a few of these employees may have been hit three times by the Enron collapse: first when they lost their jobs, secondly when they lost their investments in their ESOP plans (Employee Stock Ownership Plans), and finally when they found that their 401(k) plan held mostly Enron stock, and was now worthless. They may have thought that they were reasonably diversified, but found out otherwise when it was too late to do anything about it.

  33. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:06 pm

    Did I mention that the administrator of our 401(k) plan is a bank, and that the bank president was a college classmate of the president of my company?

  34. Daddy Love spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:15 pm

    Lib @ 28

    “This episode is another example of how we all need to take responsibility for our futures.”

    Or, this episode is another example of the need for regulation to curb corporate predation upon their workers.

  35. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:22 pm

    Several years ago, the president of my company (a U.S. subsidiary of a foreign company) was approached by a former classmate. It seems the classmate had found himself upon bad times. His company went out of business, and now here he is, in his late fifties, as a salesman of promotional items to companies (pens, paperweights, etc.).

    Our company president feels sorry for him, and wants to help him out. Our thirtieth anniversary as a company (at least, the U.S. subsidiary) is approaching, so he decides to place a big order with his former classmate. He orders an expensive pen set to be engraved with the company name and “30 year anniversary” on each pen, one for each of the employees.

    We receive the pen the day after we receive a notice that there will be no bonus paid that year, due to the difficult economic situation faced by the company overseas. Okay, its not a big deal, the bonuses weren’t all that spectacular anyway.

    But a week later when we receive our paychecks from the company, there was an unusual line item. The company valued each pen at $500.00 as part of our employee compensation “in lieu of bonus”, and deducted taxes, social security, and medicare from that amount. In effect, I had to pay over $125.00 in taxes for an overpriced pen which I didn’t ask for, which I still haven’t used, and which still sits in my desk drawer.

    I hope the president’s classmate at least received a good commission check from the sale.

    That’s just one example of why I get such a chuckle when Republicans argue that only government is wasteful, and private companies are much more efficient.

  36. Libertarian spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:36 pm

    rhp6033,

    You and a few other employees should beat the crap out of the boss in the parking lot one dark December evening. I would suggest a Department of LAbor grievance, too.

  37. Libertarian spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:49 pm

    P.S.

    You should give ’em the pen back.

  38. Dr. E spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 3:52 pm

    8

    “All you moonbats who are on the side of the terrorists must be pissed today after yer boys got caught plotting to blow up Holland Tunnel.”

    I have no idea on what authority you came up with either that presumption or its conclusion. But, since you claim to be so smart, I’m going to pose a bit of an inductive argument here:

    1. Bush claims that we are fighting a “(Global) War on Terror”.
    2. We’ll assume “Terror” to be a vernacular abbreviation of “terrorism”, as it is unlikely that Bush wants to fight a war on an abstraction such as an emotion.
    3. We’ll also assume that it is possible (as Bush seems to assert) that it is possible to fight a war on another abstract concept—here a quasi-military tactic (terrorism), often employed by marginalized factions that are unable to combat their enemy (perceived or real) through conventional military means.
    4. Terrorism as a tactic progresses from the idea of instilling terror in the civilian population, often through exacting considerable civilian casualties by hitting “soft” targets; civilian casualties are the byproduct of such terrorist acts.
    5. The goal of a terrorist act is not the exacting of civilian casualties, but rather the production of terror that results from those casualties, This terror can then be used to pressure the marginalized faction’s “enemy” either into negotiation or outright cessation of its undesired policies and/or actions, since a governing structure unable to reasonably assure the safety and peace of mind of its citizenry would be unlikely to continue to be able to govern within a democratic political framework.
    6. One of the most effective ways to aid and abet a terrorist organization would be to amplify the sense of terror among the civilian population about that group’s activities. This might include, but is not limited to, reminding the population of past, present, and possible future terrorist attacks by that (or possibly other) terrorist organization. Such actions of aiding and abetting are also quite simple, as they do not, of necessity, require any material assistance to the terrorist organization.
    7. The deliberate and frequent rhetorical usage of terms that reference terrorist events (such as “9/11” or any of its variants) would likely instill some amount of terror into at least a portion of the population by triggering memories of the horror associated with such events; similar usage of terms like “terrorist(s)”, “terror”, and names of notorious terrorists and/or terrorist organizations would also likely have a similar effect.
    8. The deliberate usage of such rhetoric—regardless of the intent of the rhetors—ultimately aids the terrorist organization, by amplifying the sense of terror that the organization is able to create on its own.
    9. Republican politicians and pundits alike make measured and delibarate rhetorical usage of terms that reference both terrorist events (e.g. “9/11”) and terrorist organizations (al-Qaeda, etc.).
    10. In deliberately using such rhetoric, Republican politicians and pundits actively aid and abet those terrorist organizations they pretend to oppose.

  39. ArtFart spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 4:18 pm

    I’m inclined to think that whoever the chat room kiddies the Feds coerced into speculating about blowing something up so they could be charged as “terrorists” are about on a par with the dumbfucks in Canada who took the bait when the Mounties offered to sell them a dump truck load of ammonium nitrate.

    I supposed we should act all scared and impressed by all this, and whatever other “alerts” happen for the rest of the summer. Otherwise the ReThuglicans may decide that something has to blow up for real for us to be cowed into voting or them in November.

  40. LeftTurn spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 4:44 pm

    Hey I wonder if George Bush will be going to this reunion?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ers07.html

  41. Mark The Redneck Kennedy spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 5:09 pm

    E @ 38 – Tell me… how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

    Get back to me when you have an answer…

    Geez, and you feel the taxpayers owe you a living? WTF??

  42. Mark The Redneck Kennedy spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 5:10 pm

    E – WTF is your point? Or are you just jerking off?

    How many bongs did you do today? Is it nice to be on a taxpayer financed vacation all summer. Must be nice to live off The Producers.

  43. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 5:12 pm

    38: Nice analysis. Right now, I think Karl Rove has concluded that the worst thing that could happen to Bush is for Bin Laden to be caught or killed, or for the “terrorist threat” to dissapear.

    I imagine that the Feds get lots of “leads” checking the internet and other sources for people speculating about what they would like to do, if they could. Those leads are usually filed away, with plans to routinely track them to see if something develops.

    But as the Fall elections come closer, I’ll bet that the White House will order Homeland Security to provide it with a steady list of “threats” to the U.S. which it has “prevented”. Those threats will appear on the news on an increasing basis throughout the campaign season, culminating in the week before the election. They probably have a bunch of them saved up already, to be released later under the “it can now be told….” label.

    But if they were really interested in national security, they wouldn’t advertise this, as it compromises their investigation tools and strategy, if you believe the adminstration’s arguments last week regarding the New York Times story on financial investigations.

    But then I learned how the Republicans really felt about national security during the 1980 election. Carter had cancelled the B1 program. The Republicans screamed that he was endangering national security. Carter arranged for the Reagan campaign to be briefed on the stealth program, to explain to them that the B1 Bomber was already obsolete, and we can’t talk about the stealth program yet, so would they please drop the subject? The Republican response: “thanks for the information, but hell no, we won’t drop the subject, not while we are getting a good boost in our poll numbers, we plan to hit it even harder now that we know you can’t counter it”. After a few weeks of getting beat up on the issue, Carter finally had to release a few vague comments about B1 Bomber being replaced by better technology, which was classified so he couldn’t talk about it. Then the Republicans screamed: “He’s revealing classfied stealth technolgy to get an electoral advantage! You know, the program which makes airplanes invisible to enemy radar! He’s endangering national security! He should be tried for treason!”

    So much for the Republican interest in National Security. They are interested in it only when it benefits them.

  44. rhp6033 spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 5:26 pm

    Hey Goldie, it might be better if you don’t quote yourself as evidence that the conspiracy theories over Ken Lay’s death are gaining traction. It sounds like you are talking to yourself.

  45. Jimbo spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 5:26 pm

    “Infamous Enumclaw horse sex case to be made into movie. … Seattle filmmaker Robinson Devor has begun filming this month for his new documentary, ‘In the Forest There Is Every Kind of Bird.’ The film examines the widely reported 2005 incident of a man in Enumclaw … who died after having sex with a horse.” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 7/7/06@ 9:45 am

    I just received word that Devor has signed JCH to play the horse.

    Roger Rabbit, with all the interest you have in this one can only assume you will be playing the man on the receiving end!

  46. Dr. E spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 6:46 pm

    Mark, do you know how to read and follow a logical argument? Put down your meth pipe and read the fucking post. If you can find a logical way to refute any part of the argument, then do it. Posting the kind of idiotic non-response that you did above — at both points — certainly isn’t the way to do it.

  47. Dr. E spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 6:51 pm

    Oh, and incidentally, WTF do you mean by “taxpayer financed vacation all summer”? First, you’re assuming that I work at a public (vs. private) institution, and that the funding public universities receives finances professorial salaries in their entirety. Second, you’re assuming that the standard professorial 9-month contract somehow magically means “12-month contract”. My so-called all-summer vacation is not financed by anyone other than myself (this would probably be the case for dj and other college profs on this board), even though I devote most of that “free” time to scholarship and advance course planning.

  48. Dr. E spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 6:52 pm

    And, for the record, my point can be found after the number “10” at post #38, above.

  49. Dr. E spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 6:56 pm

    43

    That’s been the problem with the Dems: they have an opponent that fights sewer-level filthy, and they don’t see the necessity to get at least a little dirty in fighting back.

  50. JDB spews:

    Friday, 7/7/06 at 7:55 pm

    Why do Republicans in this state want another senator like this:

    But this service isn’t going to go through the internet and what you do is you just go to a place on the internet and you order your movie and guess what you can order ten of them delivered to you and the delivery charge is free.

    Ten of them streaming across that internet and what happens to your own personal internet?

    I just the other day got, an internet was sent by my staff at 10 o’clock in the morning on Friday and I just got it yesterday. Why?
    Ted Stevens, Unfrozen Caveman Senator.
    http://www.wonkette.com/politi.....184907.php

  51. Puddybud Michael Kennedy spews:

    Saturday, 7/8/06 at 5:34 pm

    Maps, Bomb Plans Found on NYC Tunnel-Bombing Suspect’s Computer
    Saturday, July 08, 2006

    Click image to enlarge
    STORIES
    •FBI Busts ‘Real Deal’ Terror Plot Aimed At NYC-NJ Underground Transit Link

    BEIRUT, Lebanon — Lebanese authorities found maps and bomb plans on the personal computer of an Al Qaeda suspect arrested in an alleged plot to attack train tunnels in New York City, a senior Lebanese official said Saturday.

    “The information found in (Assem) Hammoud’s personal computer was very important because it contained maps and bombing plans that were being prepared,” acting Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat said in a local television interview.”

    Dr E. Apparently you are worng again!!!

  52. wlhDBxFZAA spews:

    Sunday, 7/9/06 at 7:37 pm

    h2l5AYBaIXUQiB W4MMnUWrOic CGcZOUOnm3

  53. v7CE2WkXob spews:

    Thursday, 7/13/06 at 11:13 pm

    zREgdECrBrcr iQOTjekgOxyNuR KXENx92I0B

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