Former Black Panther Aaron Dixon has announced he will challenge Sen. Maria Cantwell as the Green Party candidate.
(Sigh.)
People who know him tell me that Dixon is a dedicated activist and an all around nice guy. But let’s be honest… the only impact he can possibly have on the outcome of the November election is to draw enough votes away from Cantwell to give the seat to Republican Mike McGavick.
(Sigh.)
Much to the distress of some of my readers, I have written quite passionately in the past about the left’s self-destructive obsession with marginal third party candidates and futile primary challenges… and I expect I’ll rant a bit on Dixon in the future. But for the moment, I’d like to ask my Green readers (assuming I still have any)… um… so exactly how “green” does a Democrat have to be before you decide there’s no difference between them and the Republican? I mean… take a look at Sen. Cantwell’s ratings from some very green organizations:
- 100% from NARAL (2005)
- 100% from the ACLU (2004-05)
- 100% from the Leadership Conference On Civil Rights (2001-05)
- 100% from American Association Of University Women (2001-04)
- 100% From Brady Campaign (2001-03)
- 100% from Children’s Defense Fund (03-04)
- 100% from Sierra Club (03)
- 98% from US Public Interest Research Group (USPIRG) (2004-05)
- 95% from NAACP (2005), 100% (2003-2004)
- 95% “liberal quotient” from Americans For Democratic Action (2005)
- 93% from Human Rights Campaign (2001-04)
- 90% from the League of Conservation Voters (2005)
- “Wildlife Hero” from Wildlife Action Fund
Sure, I was as disappointed as anybody over Sen. Cantwell’s vote on the Iraq war authorization, but even my reliably liberal Congressman Jim McDermott occasionally casts votes with which I disagree. Besides, if anybody deserves blame for the Iraq war, it sure as hell ain’t Cantwell… it’s the deluded Nader voters who helped put George W. Bush in the White House.
Yeah, I know, I know… the Greens voted on principle. And as a result, thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis are now dead.
(Sigh.)
On his campaign website Dixon writes: “We need and should have more than just a two-party system.”
Yeah… maybe. But we don’t. And I don’t quite see how lazily running an obscure candidate in a high-profile race is going to overthrow the two-party system?
As Kermit the Frog once sang: “It’s not easy being green.” But then, politics is hard.
Who funded Dixon’s campaign? Any RNC money involved?
I doubt RNC money is involved.
Nobody on the left gains anything from trashing Cantwell. She’s certainly got my vote in November.
I guess this means Cantwell only wins by 9 instead of 10%
When they enter senate, gubernatorial, and presidential races, they should do it Kucinich style. That is, they should bring issues to the table, rally their base, then, when the election draws near, give their support to the Democratic candidate. This would have more influence on the political system than entering the race with the delusions of being electable.
Face it — many progressives simply aren’t Democrats, they’re independents … and they have every right to be. Gentlemen, is this a democracy or not? Where is it written they must vote Democrat or Republican? Leave the “you’re either with us or against us” rhetoric to the fascists! Greens are not Democrats, they’re Greens. They don’t owe us their votes. They don’t vote for Democrats because they disagree with the Democrats on some things. Let’s all respect that, and leave it be.
Stay focused, people! The Greens are a distraction. Our mission is to KICK MCGAVICK’S ASS!!!!!
This whole, “You Nadar folks put Bush in the White House” crap has got to stop. Al Gore won this state by a decent margin over Bush and I would argue that it was the combonation of a hideous Supreme Court decision and a poor post-election strategy by Gore who installed Bush in the White House.
This whole, “You Nadar folks put Bush in the White House” crap has got to stop. Speaking as someonewhose entire family voted Nader in 2000, Nader is at least as much at fault as anyone else. Besides the votes, he was key in providing cover for rightwing propoganda. He fucked us. He had a chance to redeem himself in 2004, but, well, he didn’t. So fuck him.
What a lying pissant he was. “There’s no difference”?
How can anyone running on a Green ticket look at the run-by-and-for-corporations government of the national GOP and shit-ass record of Bush in Texas and come up with “There’s no difference”?
Bitter much? Yes.
The Green Party needs to STAY THE FUCK AWAY from national grade elections. Or maybe run under the Democratic ticket as Green Dems. Running 2 candidates against 1 when there’s no runoff election is a moron’s game. If there’s a runoff, it might be acceptable. But there’s usually not.
Just to add some context, I was wholly naive and unaware of most political history in 2000.
Man,still trying to once again trying to blame the greens for running losers Al Gore and JFK , what about the 50,000 black Florida voters who voted for Pat Buchanan . The election was fixed , like Ohio , and Big Al and JFK or the Democratic leadership did nothing to remedy the problems , either time .
But that is not the point , what is the matter with the voters having an alternative to Ms. corporate Cantwell to bring up her abysmal centrist voting record , I welcome the debate . I welcome having a democraacy where the issues are addressed and candidates might have to discuss their voting record . What’s the matter with Maria justifying her votes on Iraq ( 100,000 dead Iraqi’s and counting ) , her support for Cafta , her support for condoning illegal wiretapping on U S citizens via the unPatriot act , Why not have a debate on the issues that are running this nation in the ground , What is the matter with a real democracy , rather than the politics of fear and intimidation by the ” kind of left Cantwell FANatics ” .
Shame on those that do not want an alternative voice in a race for such a high and important seat . Why not debate the war , because most of Cantwell’s views are unjustifiable to those that expect more from their national politicians than the capitulating democracy that Cantwell provides , The progressives deserve something for their allegiance to Ms. Cantwell and if she wants our votes she can provide some incentive for us to vote for her . No more Bush-lite in Washington democratic politics .
spitintheocean, A decent post, but what does JFK have to do with today’s problems? Comparing JFK to Gore is stretching anybodies imagine quite a lot. IMHO
Libertarians are Libertarians. They share many Republican values…but they don’t vote Republican.
Same with Greens.
3rd Party’s are incredibly important in breaking up the current cesspool of D’s & R’s. Take no vote for granted. Shaming a Libertarian or Green won’t get their vote either you arrogant LEFTIST pricks!
This seems to me to be the same practice that wingnuts have of having a contest to see who can be the most ideologically pure. Those on the far left who just don’t see that the benefit of having Cantwell as their Senator (a person who they’d agree with most of the time) outweighs having Mike McGavick as their Senator (a person they’d agree with none of the time). I respect Mr. Dixon’s right to run for office, but think the Seattle lefties who are backing him (including a couple of Seattle School Board Members) are misguided in their thoughts on Maria Cantwell. After all, Maria has been a rock on the environment and a number of other issues that Greens support. One issue does not a Senator make, unless that issue is corruption.
Goldy–
I’ll bet it’s even “harder” for you being Sims slave & “head” butt-boy after this in today’s P-U-
He has “all but called me a liar,” Sims wrote. (Uhhh, Ron….he did call you a liar)
The dust-up centers on Sims’ desire to move his office in 2007 from leased space in the Columbia Center skyscraper to the top floors of the $100 million office building the county plans to construct at Fifth Avenue and Jefferson Street.
The county decided to build the 13-story tower to save money in the long run by reducing the amount of space it leases for various agencies. Sims says moving to the new building is cheaper than the alternatives, such as displacing another agency from the county courthouse or the county administration building and occupying the vacated space.
But the committee has rebuffed his proposal.
Committee Chairman Bob Ferguson has said Sims belongs in “the people’s building” — the courthouse — which is where most of Sims’ fellow elected officials have their offices: the council members, prosecuting attorney and sheriff. And council Chairman Larry Phillips — like Sims and Ferguson, a Seattle Democrat — has said it was clearly understood no elected officials would occupy the new building.
The committee March 1 approved a Ferguson measure that blocks Sims from moving to the new building, sending it to the full council for a decision as early as Monday. The measure is co-sponsored by Phillips and four other council members, a two-thirds majority of the council that could override a Sims veto.
In testimony before the committee, Layton said that as the time for the council to decide on occupancy of the new building drew nearer, the Sims administration inflated the estimated costs of alternative moves for Sims’ office — a pattern he characterized as “amazing.” He also criticized the specific calculations used by the administration, suggesting they were not valid. Driven by political concerns, Sims would “move the goal posts” in his evolving analysis of the options, Layton said.
Sims…what an arrogant prick. Even Larry Phillips thinks so.
“Just to add some context, I was wholly naive and unaware of most political history in 2000.”
And yet, you went ahead and voted. Thanks!
Hey, fuck you too. I was still in high school. I didn’t vote.
Hey, fuck you too. I was still in high school. I didn’t vote.
Commentby TheDeadlyShoe— 3/9/06@ 7:59 am
..
Well, that explains a lot, TheDeadlyShoe: you’re just a dumb-assed kid that doesn’t know shit from Shinola!
It goes both ways, this third party stuff. Clinton won in 1992 because Perot drew votes away from George Bush I. (Clinton won re-election because the Republicans nominated Dole to run against Clinton in 1996. Dole was just too old and too much of an old politician to win.)
I doubt this green guy will have any impact on Cantwell getting re-elected. Western Washington’s liberalism will overcome the rest of the state, and Cantwell will get another term
Goldy: You can easily make the case that Nader was the spoiler in 2000 — except that he wasn’t. The Supreme Court and Republican dirty tricks stole the election. Diebold “delivered” the vote in 2004.
Third party candidates draining a few votes is a problem, but Democrats who talk a good Populist game and then vote for the big special interests need a kick in the ass. It might as well be now — while there’s still something to save.
Well, that explains a lot, TheDeadlyShoe: you’re just a dumb-assed kid that doesn’t know shit from Shinola!
Getting senile? Can’t count? :P
Headless: No go, if even a few hundred of the Nader voters went Gore instead, the election wouldn’t have been stealable.
If 3rd parties want to make progress, start a campaign to get runoff voting – preferably instant runoff voting – implemented. That is the only sane way to do it, and probably the most effective to boot.
Cougar @ 13:
I think “JFK” here is J. Forbes Kerry, and the allusion to that other guy was ironic.
Couger , Don’t you get the greatest Democratic joke of 2004 ? John Forbes Kerry was/is JFK , he was a PT boat operator in Viet Nam and he was from Massachusetts . deja vu all over again .
Question. Is this the Aaron Dixon who was one of the founders of the Seattle Black Panther Cgapter?
I know this man. He is dedicated, sincere, and active. He is no stranger to being outside of the normal political stream. We have had a number of conversations over the years and I do not question his integrity, courage or dedication. HOWEVER, I WILL NOT BE THROWING AWAY MY VOTE ON HIM. Tally me as one more Cantwell voter.
This whole Nader gave the election to Bush thing is garbage.
Bush won because Gore couldnt build a large enough base in the states he needed to in order to win! Plain and simple. Its not Nader’s fault Al Gore couldnt get his act together.
Now, as for the US Senate race, Cantwell will sadly, probably win. 2006 will be my first election, Im pretty excited, and plan to vote for Mike McGavick, but I know that hes the underdog.
FrogMan–
Aaron Dixon will get plenty of votes….because he is dedicated, sincere and active. As opposed to Cantwell who is lazy, unfocused, a puppet of the LEFTISTS, insincere & sedintary.
I voted for Perot….twice.
Committed 3rd Party advocates know there is a much bigger picture here than the next election. Partisan hacks like you Frogman cannot see beyond your nose. You love to protect the status quo system and fight within a flawed system….rather than think 10 years beyond.
If you are so “Progressive” as you like to pretend to be, why not vote your label & conscience?? Because you are insecure, regressive and full of bullshit!!
You said Aaron Dixon is great….but you won’t “throw away” your vote on him????? How can voting for a great candidate ever be construed as “throwing away” your vote???
Wake up bonehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will vote for Aaron Dixon, because in the event of a close race, I would like to help elect Mike McGavick to the US Senate. You see, I am against the war in Mesopotamia, and against conservative judges. Thus, I believe that by voting for Aaron Dixon (and by proxy, Mike McGavick), I will be telling Democrats a message: Be more liberal, or I’ll elect the Republican.
There is nothing more foolish in politics than demanding that the person you vote for represent you personally 100%. To do so is the most childish and naive way of viewing politics. Given a broad and diverse state, any Senator or other statewide office holder will not match you personally on every issue. If you find someone that has similar beliefs on 75% of the issues, you should be happy.
That being said, I can understand if there are some issues that are hard to give up. However, you have to look at the consequences of your action. Wasting your vote on a Green or Libertarian candidate who has no chance of winning so that you are left with a corporate/Bush whore hardly gets you what you want.
The Nader campaign in Florida is a great example. Bush got 48.85% of the vote, Gore received 48.84% of the vote. Nader received 1.63%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....ly_ballots Let’s say that 80% of the Nader votes stay home, the other 20% is going to break heavy Gore and Gore will win by over 10,000 votes with 49.1% of the vote. No room for Republican chicanery then.
The interesting thing is that if the courts allow for the top-two primary, we get rid of these problems. You can have all the masturbatory third parties you want, but only the top two go through to the final election, clarifying the issues. If the courts would just get out of the way, and stop believing that the parties are more important than the people, we would not have to worry about foolishness like this. (Want proof of how foolish this is? Ms. Chickenhawk is for it. I don’t think I need to say anything more).
P.S.
Perot did not take the election from Bush and give it to Clinton.
“However, exit polling indicated that Perot voters would have split their votes evenly among Clinton and Bush had Perot not been in the race, and an analysis by FairVote – Center for Voting and Democracy suggested that, while Bush would have won more electoral votes with Perot out of the race, he would not have gained enough to reverse Clinton’s victory”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.....tion,_1992
Analysis: Perotís vote totals in themselves likely did not cause Clinton to win. Even if all of these states had shifted to Bush and none of Bushís victories had been reversed (as seems plausible, in fact, as Bush won by less than 5% only in states that a Republican in a close election could expect to carry, particularly before some of the partisan shifts that took place later in the 1990s ñ Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Dakota and Virginia), Clinton still would have won the electoral college vote by 281 to 257. But such a result obviously would have made the race a good deal closer.
http://www.fairvote.org/plurality/perot.htm
See Generally: http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh062905.html
“Where does spin come from? This matter provides a good case study. To the extent that we have actual data, there is no indication—none whatever—that Clinton would have lost to Bush if Perot hadn’t been in the race. But so what? Within weeks, kooky-cons began to conjure, and their pleasing stories quickly spread.”
YEs, that’s the instant runoff I was talking about. Cast your votes in order of preference, and runoffs can be done automatically and easily. Since you no longer have to worry about ‘spoiler’ votes, third parties are free to increase their margins to their heart’s content.
JDB–
Were you born with a defective brain…..or did smoking all that cheap pot make you an idiot.
Your information “sources” make you look as ridiculous as you are.
You say a 3rd Party did not help Clinton in 1992…but it gave Bush the election in 2004. You are an idiot.
Belltowner: You surely realize that all the DLC hears when you do that is “Be more republican”
Help elect more Republicans by the third party trap door —- no way in hell.
Yes, the Greens gave the White House to Bush. How short are the memories. Matching dick size I presume.
Republican in many states funded and helped get signatures to get Nader on the Ballot.- fact.
In California they paid fo some of his air time. fact
He was paid to be the candidate. Insiders called it the Celebrity Trick. fact
He was a political whore – looking for one more year of attention.
The International Green movement hates him more than Americans. They made impassioned please to release his votes to stop Bush as they completely understood what was about to happen. German Greens really do elect delegates to the central council, they were outraged at the Nader game.
In politics you take the backlash from your failures as well as acccolades for succes. Greens in American will rot in political hell for another decade.
HRC, the very strong Gay lobby group in DC, gives Cantwell
88 per cent. Hardly centrist.- or did I miss it when gay rights became the right wing issue.
I just upped my $$$$$ to Cantwell.
Greens, you stupid asses, the one sure way to protect the environment to a very great degree is to get rid of the polluters, and looters —- whil you are posing and giggling, Bush is preparing to drill in parks, sell national forest lands, and rollback A L L enviro protection laws……my God how can Greens be so stupid and blind. …..and they think they are radical foot soldiers……
Come off the ivory tower – of course, if all goes well for the necons and all the new camps being built – many of us might have a very long time to discuss all this – for years – incognito, to our dying days. Never in America- hah, there are Americans at Gitmo and elsewhere already stashed. The Gulag that Gore alone will talk about.
Get rid of Bush – help Save the Environment.
I’m just joking ;)
Also, the DLC is on a ventilator, dying a slow, slow death.
You anti-3rd Party KLOWNS are what is dangerous in this Country.
The FORCE the 2 dominating Party’s to address their needs to get their votes. What is wrong with that????
I thought you PINHEADS were pro-choice???
It’s ok to kill an innocent, unborn child….but it’s not ok to have a 3rd Party on a General Election Ballot???!!
God you KLOWNS are pathetic. Try looking at the bigger picture here rather than 1 failed election at a time. Open your eyes, free your minds beyond status quo. Did Clinton really do this Country any favors??? Some meaningless pandering where the LEFTISTS and minorities felt Clinton was one of them. An illusion. Clinton road the dot.com bubble…just like Cantvotewell. Clinton supported NAFTA, GATT, unfair trade with China, shared technology with China…gave it away. Clinton turned his back on the Middle East threats. I could care less if some gross, fat chick sucked his dick….or even that he lied about it. So what. It was a sideshow. The rest of the shit is what matters and was horrible. Horrible.
Go ahead & defend the status quo KLOWNS. You claim to be “Progressives”??? My Ass. The real “Progressives” are the ones that vote for Aaron Dixon. The real Libertarians vote for their candidate.
You KLOWNS want new rules & restrictions that hamstring minority parties. You merely want a continuation of the US against THEM mentality and are willing to do ANYTHING to prevent an opposing view to have the stage during an election.
Pro-choice….right?? KLOWNS!
Bob from Boeing is a very confused Gay Man. He wants a LAW protecting his rights based on his sex preference…..but wants to stop minority parties from being on the ballot.
I thought you were “progressive” Bob?
I thought you were for opening people’s minds and opportunities Bob?
marwa @ 6, spit @ 10, lucy @ 19, Kyle @ 26, and undoubtedly others — Under any conventional understanding of causality and any conventional theory of ethics, Nader (and the Naderrhoids) are morally responsible for putting Bush in the White House.
You can toss around auxiliary counterfactuals til the cows come home (that’s not how we decide any other moral question), but the chickens have already come home to roost: blood on your hands, and more where that came from.
Rule of thumb in my refrigerator is “if it’s green, throw it out”.
Will Dixon get RNC support? Not directly, but “independent expenditures”? Hell, yeah. It’s McGavick’s cheapest bang for the buck.
Ms. Chickenhawk:
You need to lay off the sauce so early in the morning; I said nothing about the 2004 election.
If you are critical of my citations on the 2000 election, please find me one study that says that the Nader votes would have broken evenly. Heck, find me one source that supports your point of view if don’t like my sources.
Oh, what, you can’t? Sucks to be you.
Ronk:
You must not have many vegetables.
However, you are right. The right is often the major funding source for Green Candidates. However, believing what people have said about Dixon, maybe he will step up and agree to reject any money from the right. Maybe he will also agree that if he is polling below 10% as of September 30, 2006 that he will drop out of the race and support Senator Cantwell.
In that case, let Dixon run. If he can come up with support, good for him. But if all he can do is be a spoiler and a place for those who demand 100% purity to vote, then he does nothing but bring shame on the ideas he stands for. I had great respect for Nader until his ego became more important that getting someone who agrees with 75-85% of his ideas in office. Can Nader really say that we are better off with Bush in office then Gore? At this point, can anyone?
Dixon should be asked these questions. If he is the man people say he is, he will realize that we are better off with most of the pie than none of it.
I will be surprised if Aaron Dixon will willingly settle for less than all of the pie. He is cut from a rather more radical mold than that.
As to his base? I don’t think it will effect a centrist Cantwell campaign. The wingnut chirping here is just that. . .these are the guys who brought us Craswell and Rossi.
JDB–
Do your eyes ever stop spinning from all the conspiracy theories & illogic your alleged mind conjures up. Man, if you would put HALF your convoluted, mind-numbing wasted energy into something positive like getting better candidates & Party leaders than Howie Dean, Kerry, “Swimmer” Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Algore, Hillary and the other PINHEADS…..you’d be a dangerous SOB!
Keep flailing away at imaginary boogie-=men JDB!!!!
Keep your mind & time occupied with thoughts & demons that paralyze you from taking any positive action.
Being you must be a real drag…..I’ll bet people spend 5 minutes with you and are looking for a knife.
Running independent candidates based on self-righeous ideological purity is a fool’s game if the serious intent is to achieve political power or social change. If the green’s are serious, they should be building strong local party organizations and running candidates for local offices (in fact, they have done so in some areas). If they want to throw their weight around in the dem. party–they should sign up and get their butt in the chairs at local dem. party LD and County meetings–and do the work to earn their chops in party politics.
How do you think I did it?
If invective and polemic counted for political insight and knowledge, then Rossi would be governor and Bush would be wildly popular. But that’s not so. The only flailing I see is by drowning wingnuts.
Stalin–
That is one way to skin a cat….but not the only way.
The KLOWNS are going to spend a whole lot of time & energy trying to shame died-in-the-wool Greenies to vote for some dumbass like Kerry or Gore….Hysterical!
Shaming dedicated 3rd Party voters simply does not work…in fact it backfires. So go ahead & use the same old tired arguments that have pissed off TRUE Greenies & Libertarians for YEARS! It doesn’t work.
Frankly, I admire both Libertarians & Greenies for courageously standing up for what the believe and NOT caving into assholes like JDB. JDB comes off as arrogant & condescending………..just exactly what pisses off true Greenies!
Well, that explains a lot, TheDeadlyShoe: you’re just a dumb-assed kid that doesn’t know shit from Shinola!
Getting senile? Can’t count?
Commentby TheDeadlyShoe— 3/9/06@ 8:41 am
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I can’t count just fine, snot-nose! Go listen to some rap music or pretend that you matter in the scheme of things.
Hey BOZO,
Go back to (un)SP and quit boring us with that “independent” garbage. The Republican Party has been completely taken over by name-calling nuts like you with too much time on their hands. You’re completely at home there.
I am SO LOOKING FORWARD to that new software!
As a long time union member and gun owner I have mixed feelings about Cantwell. Voting for the Bible thumping, union busting GOP is not an option. I am hoping that the Green party will appeal to gun banning , nanny state liberals so the dems move to the middle.
re 21: Since the elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen no amount of Democrat votes would have won the contest. 2006 will be the same. It will stay like it is until we make it too dangerous for them.
Let’s pretend that Katherine Harris, butterfly ballots, Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader, right-wing thugs, and SCOTUS really didn’t change the outcome in Florida. (Yes, I know that’s just a GOP wet-dream that came true, but bear with me.)
Nader still cost President Gore the 2000 election. Because Gore still would have won — without Florida — had he received New Hampshire’s four electoral votes.
It’s not just that Ralph’s vote count in the state (22,198) was more than three times the margin between Bush and Gore (7,211). It’s that Nader’s best results were in strongly Democratic places like Plymouth (8.6%), Durham (location of UNH, 8.1%), Keene’s Ward 2 (Keene State College, 8.0%), Keene’s Ward 1 (7.8%), and Portsmouth’s Ward 2 (7.5%). Hanover, site of Dartmouth College, gave Nader 4.8% of its vote, also well above his statewide 3.9% … and Hanover is (by New Hampshire standards) a large jurisdiction.
So Ralph *clearly* took many more votes from Gore than from Bush. If two-thirds of his New Hampshire voters had cast their votes for Gore — not a stretch by any means — how different (and how much better) our nation and our world would be today.
Third party votes often are expressly for the purpose of sending a message to the mainstream parties. Do you think the Democrats have gotten the message yet?
I don’t think so.
They can stop being the “yes men ” for corporate interests and maybe ( just maybe ) try to find some political message that will appeal to middle-aged white male voters.
Is that so hard to understand?
Ms. Chickenhawk:
What are you huffing? What conspiracy theory have I been talking about?
You really should get out of your Mom’s basement and get some sunshine. Your eyes have apparently gone on you, since you are writing things that have nothing to do with reality.
But, again, if you have any actual facts to support your position please post them. Heck, if you can even quote something I’ve written to support your position, I would love to see it.
But, lets face it, the day you post a fact here is the day you vote for Nader.
10
“What’s the matter with Maria justifying her votes on Iraq”
Not hard to do — Bush abused the authority Congress gave him. War was supposed to be the last resort, not the first and only resort.
11
“what does JFK have to do with today’s problems”
John F. Kerry
17
“Well, that explains a lot, TheDeadlyShoe: you’re just a dumb-assed kid that doesn’t know shit from Shinola! Commentby Yossarian— 3/9/06@ 8:12 am”
Some people don’t improve with age.
In your list of Maria’s top 100% rating you forgot one number.
100,000 Iraqi Dead
Maria made a choice, with Hillary Clinton, to go for the middle. While that might get her 10 votes in Spokane, 10,000 Seattleites will vote against her or just stay home. Should we support a party that supports war? She made her choice. I made mine up to not vote for anyone who supported the war.
You middle of the roaders will once again, vote for the least worst candidate. You will then get angry at people who did not vote for your least worst candidate. I have been begging and pleading with Maria for an apology for voting for the war. Since she won’t, she doesn’t get my vote. The war was wrong and by voting against pro war candidates, we will develop better Democratic candidates, because they can’t like losing that much.
18
“Clinton won in 1992 because Perot drew votes away from George Bush I. (Clinton won re-election because the Republicans nominated Dole to run against Clinton in 1996. Dole was just too old and too much of an old politician to win.) Commentby Skylar Vandergrift— 3/9/06@ 8:17 am”
Excuses are like assholes — everybody’s got one.
26
“2006 will be my first election, Im pretty excited, and plan to vote for Mike McGavick, but I know that hes the underdog. Commentby Kyle— 3/9/06@ 9:14 am”
Just what we need — another 18-year-old idiot voting for a $14-million-a-year Big Insurance lobbyist, hoping that brown nosing people with power and money will get him power and money someday.
“2006 will be my first election, Im pretty excited, and plan to vote for Mike McGavick, but I know that hes the underdog. Commentby Kyle— 3/9/06@ 9:14 am”
Maybe new voter Kyle will be allowed to tour some nice new battlefield when he is drafted for the next or ongoing war!! If they could just guarantee that war supporters were sent to war…
32
“You say a 3rd Party did not help Clinton in 1992…but it gave Bush the election in 2004. You are an idiot. Commentby Mr. Cynical— 3/9/06@ 10:06 am”
Nice speech, Cyn, but the numbers argue otherwise.
48
Liberals who want to ban guns are idiots! We (and they) will need all the guns we can get when these fascist bastards start doing what they’ve been saying for a long time they WANT to do — killing liberals.
Mike Miller — As a long time union member, you might be interested in this long time list of 40-some ratings by labor org’s.
AFL-CIO (by year) 100, 85, 85, 83
SEIU 100, 90, 100, 100, 85
UAW 93, 75, 92, 73, 79
… and so on.
If the Nader voters were all that Democrats needed to win and the Democrats knew that, then maybe they should try to win over the members of THEIR swing voters instead of always trying to kiss up to undecideds who always vote Republican anyway.
The corporations be damned. If Democrats want to win, they’ll start representing the people— and not the “legal persons”.
to the good # 53 , Fine, let her stand on her war record and admit she was fooled , or a fool . Note that other good democrats saw no need to follow Bush’s marching order’s . She could have asked her senior cohort ,Patty Murray ,how to vote, but she did not .
Maria Cantwell did not even follow the advice of her constituents back in Washington state ( you know the ones she is paid to represent ) . If her argument is she didn’t know any better than to believe a George Bush/ Republican lie than I would suppose that lets her off of the hook for every indiscriminate anti-democratic stance she has taken . Let’s have her openly and democratically debate the issues on their merits , back here in Wash. state with other candidates for her . You know if you had an employee and they never did what you asked them to do , that would be grounds for termination . Maria must earn our support , not have it handed to her because she represents the better of 2 evils . I can see the bumper sticker now , ” Vote for Cantwell , she’s better than nothing , but not much “
We need to disband the corporations, seize all corportae assets and distribute those assets evenly throughout society.
Karl: 1/2 of 1% of the population owns or controls 60% of the wealth — and have since the 1890’s. See a problem here?
lucy in the sky with denialisms @ 63 — Problem is, there just aren’t many fish under the lily pads in your swampy corner — just snapping turtles, water mocassins, weasels, newts and and minnows. Tell Maria to “go fish”, and she’ll go where the fish are — open water, in the middle, where she’ll feed bait to 5 or 10 or 20 for every 1 she lands in the boat.
You want the rest of the voters to come to you … but they don’t, and you won’t go out after them … just hole up in the weeds, looking for your chance to strike.
Yes, headless lucy, I see the problem. My post at 65 is a way to correct the wealth disparity in society.
To The Deadly Shoe:
Apologies — I made an assumption, and we all know know what happens when you ass/u/me. Now you’re old enough to vote and thinking about the real world ramifications of your vote — so good on you! Wish a few more “progressives” had done that in 2000.
You people are freaking out over nothing. Yeah, a Green got about 20% of the vote in Seattle (Joe Swzaja)- in an election against a Libertarian and Congressman-For-Life Jim McDermott. Something similar happened in 2002 in the 43rd district against Senator Thibeadeau.
However, it’s important to note NO REPUBLICAN WAS RUNNING in either of those races.
Compare and contrast to the 2004 Senatorial election (Murray vs. Nethercutt): Green candidate: 1%.
If a Libertarian shows up in that race between now and, oh, the end of the filing period, problem solved. But I’ll be shocked if any Green candidate breaks 5% in a statewide race where there’s a Republican on the ballot. People don’t generally waste their votes.
re 68: “From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.” Karl Marx
Where does it say anything about equal disbursal of wealth here?
headless lucy, it’s the only way we can make things fair. We must re-distribute wealth for a more just society.
re 72: Or, you could just admit you’ve never read Karl Marx, don’t know jack about political science, and you’re just a right-wing tool who is given some rudimentary and largely incorrect information who get you all emotionally pumped up about making sure Vanderbilt’s great great grandchildren continue to be billionnaires.
No, lucy, I’m just an average person, pointing out the wide gap between the rich and poor.
BTW, how do I know you’re not some right wing troll?
Karl Marx @ 74 – headless lucy is just one of the resident knuckleheds here. she’s just like you, asshole-idiot!
See how smart your buddies are , “Karl ROVE MARX.”
Karl: 1/2 of 1% of the population owns or controls 60% of the wealth — and have since the 1890’s. See a problem here?
Commentby headless lucy— 3/9/06@ 12:56 pm
Headlice–
Try posting less, working more, risking capital…perhaps you could be part of the 1/2 of 1% you envy so much.
America has gutted a hunk of it’s will with your Robin Hood mentality. Pretty easy to build a base telling lazy fucks “we’ll take his money and give it to you!!!”
That is what you are clearly saying headlice.
lucy…i have to ask you this. since you are obviously a [jealous] little scarcity thinker i have a question for you….i think we all have the picture that you despise corporations and wealthy people, because you somehow equate that with you having nothing. [hint lucy…the harder you work, the “luckier” you get]
so do you also hate all healthy people? because by your terminally flawed ‘logic’ if someone is healthy then that is the reason another person is sick.
marx preyed on scarcity thinkers[ losers] like you. so did hitler. that’s how they can get so many people to do so many bad things against another group of people. they use scare and jealousy tactics.
for hitler it was the jews…for the far left it is the GOP.
you are no different than hitler.
try inserting the word ‘jew’ or ‘black’ into your next diatribe about ALL republicans.
gee….don’t you look like a racist now? it’s a common test for [below] average intelligence people to use to see if they are crossing the boundaries of common sense and decency. you, of all the posters here, need it way more than anyone else.
you are the dangerous combination of hateful and stupid that people like marx and hitler just LOVED.
“America has gutted a hunk of it’s will with your Robin Hood mentality.”
If America as a society has chosen to “gut its will”, then this was a democratic choice, democratically made. If you are referring to individuals, then your statement demeans the very qualities you say you admire and champion. One can only conclude your rhetoric exceeds your common sense.
However, I admire your principles, and your loyalty to the Libertarian Party. That’s just one less vote for somebody not to my liking who stands a chance in hell of winning an election.
Lucy, Maybe I’m not the smartest person around, but it sure seems that something needs to be done to improve the living standards in this country. We need some sort of process for more efficiently distributing wealth to the people that need help. Sure, there will always be a need somewhere, but we can share the wealth to at least minimize as best we can the deprivation of the poor. I’m serious about this stuff.
Karl Marx @ 80 –
Put down the bong, man. It’s time to go home!
Epony at 70 may be right, but who knows?
If Rossi couldn’t win, how on earth will a Republican beat an incumbent in Washington state given the rising tide of dissatisfaction with one-party government at the federal level?
Let’s be real: Cantwell wins in a walk if she manages to turn this election into a referendum on Bush/LeLay.
Alas, the problem is that:
1) Democratic pols have been lackluster at best in navigating a post 9/11 political environment; and
2) Republicans have a knack for tactics that snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
It’s a loonngg way from November, and much could change the political landscape. I hope that Cantwell’s campaign knows what it is doing. I also hope that the election isn’t so close that it matters how many folks go green. Hope isn’t the same think as predicting, though.
Ah, the day has come where Ms. Chickenhawk and Lucy agree on something.
That should tell you everything you need to know about a third party running.
“We welcome his candidacy,” state Republican Chairwoman Diane Tebelius said.
“I think that the Republican Party has learned from its excesses in the past that it’s not good to have a third-party candidate out there who could siphon away votes from their main candidates,” Tebelius said. “So I would think it could be a problem for the Democrats.”
Above from th am P I — how strange, fascist warmongering R’s helping a Black Panther elder —- oh, strange bedfellows.
Mr. Irrelevant Pinhead is back? I thought he had slunk away to hide somewhere else…like the (un)SP comment threads. Guess he couldn’t resist the allure of HorsesAss.
“Sen. Cantwell’s ratings from some very green organizations:
* 100% from NARAL (2005)
* 100% from the ACLU (2004-05)…”
Presumably that was before she voted for cloture on Alito.
Hey, I think Cantwell is our best bet. Splitting the left-of-center vote will most likely catapult McGavick into the Senate where he’ll show himself to be a loyal little neocon apparatchick, just like Dave Reichert.
On the other hand, someone needs to hold Maria’s feet to the fire about a lot of her votes. Sure, she won a much-ballyhooed staredown against Ted Stevens. Made her look like a great champion of the environment, but in the long run it doesn’t account for crap because he’ll just tuck the same measure into some other bill this year. She needs to understand that a lot of us want to know what the hell she was thinking when she voted for one war appropriation after another, Federal ID cards, and recently the extensions of the Patriot Act and Bush’s Tax Relief for Poor Suffering Rich People.
Spitintheocean@23: Sometimes Cougar is just DUMB! Everyone knew JFK is Jean Francois Kerry, the French candidate for POTUS in 2004 EXCEPT cougar. Maybe he’s bee a bad puddytat and was eating his young durig the 2004 election cycle!
Kyle@26. You are right. He lost his home state of Tennessee, which if he won had enough electoral votes. The moonbat moby troll libruls seem to forget this over and over and over and over…ad nauseum!!!
BUSH/CANTWELL’S LONG WAR PLAN EXCEEDS ALL EXPECTATIONS ! It appears that the long war so long supported by our good Senator has been a success and now rivals cherries and red delicious apples as our #1 export , human beings , 2500 U S dead and counting , and that not taking into account the crippled and maimed that are likely to bring cash to our state for a generation . ” WAY TO GO MARIA , what better way to bring home the bacon ?? Democratic supporters of the Cantwell war machine , you oughta get on your knees and bray . hee haw
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To The Deadly Shoe:
Apologies – I made an assumption, and we all know know what happens when you ass/u/me. Now you’re old enough to vote and thinking about the real world ramifications of your vote – so good on you! Wish a few more “progressives” had done that in 2000.
Thanks. I’m sorry too. I had insufficient sleep and I don’t think I was very clear. My fault as much as anyones. :x
@Yossarian: Now I’m just confused. ;)
Aaron Dixon is the candidate for those who are ignored and victimized by the political system. If you don’t understand that, it is because you benefit from this system (and are most likely part of the problem).
Anyone who claims that:
1. There is a fundamental difference between the Republicans and Democrats.
2. That voting for a 3rd Party candidate peels votes away from democrats, and empowers Republicans
…is without question PART OF THE PROBLEM of the erosion of democracy not only in the U.S., but worldwide; because they uphold a defeatist mentality that ultimately rewards oppression.
In addition, while acknowledging the corrupt nature of U.S. politics (from the Electoral College to Campaign Finance), they aid and assist in this legacy of dictatorship by deception (it was James Madison who argued in “The Federalist Papers†that the U.S. Constitution was there not to guarantee rights, but to help prevent revolution) by falling back on the very same people and organization(s) that failed them in the first place, and allowed the Republicans to increase their power in all three branches of government.
These cynics, hypocrites, and defeatists, by encouraging another vote for the democrats (who have done NOTHING to stop the war as a party, but in fact have tried to out-step the GOP in widening it to include Iran and North Korea) do the work of the Republican party (or more specifically, American imperialism) even more so than those who simply don’t vote. At least those who don’t vote take an honest stand against Bush (when enough of the population refuses to participate, legitimacy can only be maintained by military force alone); as opposed to the pathetic displays of public posturing and the presentation of phony opposition by liberals who hate on 3rd party candidates and genuine grassroots movements for social justice, while at the same time lacking any better ideas themselves.
GO AARON!!