A quick pointer to the excellent AP story running in today’s Seattle Times, that tells the tale of two rural, Douglas County towns struggling to survive in the wake of Tim Eyman’s ill-conceived initiatives. [Rural towns feeling the pinch]
In Mansfield, population 325, the town’s two full-time employees (superintendent and clerk-treasurer) have taken on custodial duties, vacuuming and cleaning bathrooms to save money. Council members have discontinued their $30-a-month salaries, and the mayor now only earns $50. Because they can’t afford the overtime, snow is only plowed during weekday offices hours… by the superintendent himself.
18 miles away in Bridgeport, population 2,100, they’ve closed their 2-year-old public pool because the city can’t afford the $30,000 in annual operating costs. The city also abolished its municipal court, cut its contract with the county sheriff from $98,000 to $73,000, and retired a firetruck to stay within the department’s $11,000 annual budget.
And these cuts have all occurred while both towns were still draining their financial reserves. While the article doesn’t specify, it seems likely they have also exhausted their “banked levy capacity” to help cushion the crisis.
Come 2006, the real hardship sets in.
While there was certainly some legitimate anger over the state’s high MVET tax, much of the revenue was dedicated to sales tax equalization payments to rural towns like Bridgeport and Mansfield; by reducing car tabs to a flat $30, I-695 eliminated this state aid.
Unlike big urban and suburban cities, rural communities don’t have the base to collect a significant amount of sales tax.
“There are no new businesses. No new revenues. No new industries,” Snell said of Mansfield. “The wheat industry is all that we have.”
Bridgeport doesn’t have an industry. There are no major retailers. Mom-and-pop operations
In the long run, it may be better for small towns to be weaned off the Olympia nipple. It’s not the end of the world if money doesn’t come from the state. Local services can still be provided by local taxing districts; if swimming pools and better snow removal are needed, the residents of Mansfield and Bridgeport will figure out a way to get it done.
Hell, they voted for it. To hell with them. I bet that the mayor and councils and the superindentent all voted for the damn thing too.
Or apparently not, since the end result appears to be not to do it at all. If Eastern Washington had to rely only on tax money from east of the Cascades, they would have a lot fewer roads and services than they have now. They act like the state government is taxing them to the poorhouse when they get a lot more back than they pay in.
State govenment IS taxing them into the poorhouse, these people are farmers not Microsoft Engineers, the difference here is although the public officials wont admit it the people are more self dependant than the west side. They dont need things like 1 cop per 1200 people, they are generally armed and dont mind going out in the dark to “check things out” for themselves. This is mostly unheard of in Seattle, you guys NEED police to check out problems as you sit in the house scared after dialing 911
Chuck – You’re clearly making up facts because you can’t face the truth. The anti-tax Eymanist policies are destroying rural Washingtonians abilities to pay for essential services. You can spin it all you want, but read the article. Rural counties don’t want to unincorporate. They don’t want to rely on far away county seats to provide them police, fire or court services. They want to be self-reliant, but that requires a solid tax base.
Again, another lie of the right wing destroyed. The tax policies of WA state give far more to the poorer counties than they take back. Us “evil” west-siders are subsidizing the supposedly “self-sufficient” eastern WA way of life. Personally, I don’t have a problem with that, I understand that taxes are supposed to redistribute wealth.
But if people like Chuck continue to ignore the obvious facts and vote against their economic self-interest, I’m not sure why we should continue to bail them out. It’s cruel, but if rural counties insist on eliminating their only means of support, I’m not going to go out of my way to provide them with extra money.
Comment by Chuck
They DO need: Expensive interstate highways built and maintained, dams to provide irrigation and power, international shipping terminals to get wheat and apples to foreign markets, up to date schools with teachers, and lots of migrant farm workers to harvest crops for low wages. The idea that eastern Washington’s rural communities would be some kind of self-sufficient nirvanas if it wasn’t for Olympia and Seattle liberals is ridiculous nonsense.
Goldy – I am not sure they don’t know what they did. I have had many conversation along these line with famiy in E. Washington. They refuse to understand.
They are like our own Chuck- Don’t confuse me with the facts, I saved 50.00 and the problem is Olympia or Seattle or King Co or Spokane.
The divide is rural vs urban and values. Sad. What can be done?
Wheat ranchers who own vast acres vote for all tax relief, even if it cripples the towns.
Selfish…..or stupid….greedy….hard to understand. I don’t talk politics much anymore with my rural family. Utter frustration.
Perhaps home schooling is the problem. Inbreeding? Waiting for the end of times, so who cares? Hard to understand.
If it was up to Seattle liberals, there would be no “expensive interstates – dams -or shipping terminals” Just bike paths, preserved open space and protected wetlands.
In addition to the article Goldy cites from the Times, and perhaps helping to explain the predicament these small rural towns are in, the op-ed piece by Neal Starkman in the PI is worth a glance. It is a reprise of his pre-election piece on the “S” factor in elections (S for stupid). I think the S also could stand for selfish. Unfortunately, it ultimately stands for self-defeating. In particular, I commend the article by Starkman to Chuck.
Amen Rick–
The self-proclaimed Progressives would wind the clock back to the turn of the century….1900 that is.
Many of this ilk are trust-funders or computer geeks that may have callouses on there asses but not on their hands. They can afford to live a Bohemian lifestyle. Some do because they are ashamed they didn’t earn their money…they were born into it. I have no problem with that part of it.
But when these Limosine Lefty’s use money they did not earn to try and stop others from earning a living using GMA and lawsuits to dictate property rights….that’s where I go off.
The Seattle Lefty Mantra:
WHAT’S MINE IS MINE…..BUT WHAT’S YOURS IS OURS!!!
Remember – Chuck will not pay a nickel tax on soft drinks to improve education……including his own grandchildren and the neighbor kids…..kids at church. The cute ones he tickles. Not if it costs him some of his money, even nickels.
Self destructioe behavior is pathology in these forms. No good mental health.
Yes, Chuck, I mean to be personal. Rural culture is vanishing. Small towns used to be good places to live and retire. Take some pictures.
It’s truly unfortunate that these small towns let themselves be taken in by handouts from the state in the first place.
Maybe if we can reduce our overall tax burden imposed by the advocates of the nanny state we can all one day be more self reliant.
Isn’t it funny that the Limo Libs are so quick to determine rural land use – I wonder if they would allow somebody in Ellensburg to “set aside” a portion of their yuppie-pad media room for general public use? Just wondering.
Chuck – You’re clearly making up facts because you can’t face the truth. The anti-tax Eymanist policies are destroying rural Washingtonians abilities to pay for essential services.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lets look at this, a town of 325 and the mayor as well as the clerk have to PICK UP after themselves, sounds essential to me…a town of 2100 that cannot collect enough from swimming pool gate fees to keep it running, sounds like a lack of interest in the town pool to me…oh I forgot a swimming pool is ESSENTIAL. I am going to guess that there is a close court in the area that is being used for those services. Here around (Roy,Yelm, McKenna area) me within a 5 mile radius we have 3 post offices of which any one of them could handle the area…WE HAVE 5 POST OFFICES. This is the type of waste I refer to, although this is federal wide, it is a good example of government waste. The same waste occurs locally, possibly even more so.
Hmmm. I bet most of these people voted for I-695 and Rossi.
The liberals problem with their approach is that they often are trying to bail people out who don’t want help. Let the towns see and experience the impact of I-695. Let them try to cut the fat out as the conservatives are always railing for.
Remember – Chuck will not pay a nickel tax on soft drinks to improve education……including his own grandchildren and the neighbor kids…..kids at church. The cute ones he tickles. Not if it costs him some of his money, even nickels.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>peter peter, what am I going to have to say to you, no I womt pay a nickel, enough is being laid out there as it is it just needs spent wisly, it has nothing to do with my grandkids, your kids or the neighbor kids, it is simple math, the average taxpayer is paying 45% in taxes, spend it better and there will be more than enough to pay for essential programs and even probably give some back.
WE HAVE 5 POST OFFICES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>should read WE HAVE 3 POST OFFICES
Stefan Sharkansky was just on Brit Hume’s SPECIAL REPORT on Fox News. As the Court date approaches you will see increasing national media attention on this contested election, especially with what has also been revealed about busloads of New Yorkers registering in Wisconsin after the Bruce Springdork concert.
The brighter the light that shines on Washington State, the better.
All you Lefty’s who have been demanding the legal work of the R’s…..here it comes!!
I agree with Chuck on this one. It is simple really, no swimmers to pay for it = NO POOL, Clerk makes a mess = CLERK TAKES OUT TRASH, how hard is it to understand that somebody has to produce something to create revenue. GOVERNMENT MUST TAKE IN ORDER TO GIVE!
Chuck – read the article. They shut down the school. They shut down the courts. Next year they’ll shut down their government alltogether and have no local representation (i.e. no mayor). They scaled back their contract with police officers to or claimed they could “live with” less policing). They can’t repair their streets. They can’t fix their sewage lagoon. They got rid of one of their fire-trucks.
None of this is because this small community decided they could live without these services. None of this is because the own guns and can police themselves. None of this is because they don’t want “durn librals” telling them what to do. All of it is a result of their own support for tax-reducing initiatives that run counter to their own needs.
Read the article – the state legislature even cushioned the blow for the last couple of years by providing “extra” money. In 2006 it’s only going to get worse. Expect older rural citizens (especially lower income ones) across the state without hospitals, without transportation to libraries, without fire trucks, etc.
RDC- Quite frankly, the Starkman piece is emblematic of all the STUPID liberals who just don’t get it. I voted for Bush because Kerry doesn’t have a clue when it comes to the economy, and Gregoire is no smarter. She’ll throw the tobacco money around doing favors for the biotech subsidiaries of those evil drug companies, and ignore the seventy percent of the economy that doesn’t go around looking for the nearest government teat- small business.
Liberals just don’t get it- you can milk the cow, and the cow won’t complain, but when you bleed the cow, the cow either strikes back or you end up with a dead cow and no milk. But liberals keep wanting to bleed the cow…
And it isn’t just little towns in Eastern Washington that cannot survive without the Olympia handout- very few of the new cities of Pierce, King, and Snohomish Counties are self-supporting. They don’t want busines development- but they want revenue.
Sorry. folks- you want revenue, provide for a healthy economy.
But liberals have no clue as to how to go about that…
Just to echo Cricket here, local tax cutting can often be penny-wise and pound-foolish. For example, if this town unincorporates, and loses its local fire station, their Public Protection District rating will fall, dramatically increasing the cost of homeowner’s insurance. In some situations, a drop from one rating zone to the next can up your premiums by 30%.
There are just some things — snow plowing of public streets for instance — that you just can’t expect individual households to do on their own.
I think Chuck intentionally misses the point… these local governments are already cut to the bone. The next step is to close up entirely. Now Chuck may be a radical libertarian himself (or even an anarchist), so this might appeal to him. But I doubt it appeals to the majority of voters.
Angry Voter – Read the article that Goldy linked to. As a direct result of your support for anti-tax policies, the quality of life in rural Washington is being destroyed. Yes, your support of those policies is responsible for that, not the liberals.
Rural areas (and Red states) constantly take in more than they put into the federal/urban trough while simultaneously denigrating the very policies they benefit from. Based on how much Federal tax money Red states (and rural areas) need to survive, there’s not a chance in the world that you and the majority of rural Republicans could survive in the “libertarian utopia” (everything is pay-per-use) you envision.
As I see it, the only positive effect of your attitude is that you’re taking care of that skewed-distribution “problem” without us liberals having to abandon our values (i.e. helping the less fortunate). Those less fortunate red states and rural areas in Blue states who continually vote against their own economic self-interest, are guaranteeing that those places will be horrible places to live in the next 10-20 years.
BTW – FDR and his “new deal” liberal policies are responsible for the national highway system. You can spin it all you like, but programs implemented by liberals are responsible for a lot most of the progress towards a greater “quality of life” for all in America.
http://www.valleynewsonline.co.....s/157.html
jcricket–
liberals “obey the laws”??
I guess we’ll see how that one plays out, won’t we!
Yeah, we will. Rossi has lost, and will lose in court. Get over it.
Jcricket-
Like a typical liberal with no concern of facts, you cite an opinon piece as a sound, logical and valid fact. I do not dispute the validity of some of the statements, but to cite an opinion as fact is basing an argument on a false basic premise. You cannot just write something down and it is so… Silly bastards, facts are for Republicans.
As some of the comments indicate, many Republicans are becoming an odd oxymoronic mix of authoritarian anarchism, like the John Birch Society back in the 1960s. They are anarchists insofar as they believe in removing most responsibilites from the government, even including education and roads. They are nevertheless authoritarian because they believe that the only proper functions of government are the military and police (including prisons), to which all tax dollars should go, and they are opposed to civil liberties with respect to those functions of government. It is left for the rest of us to decide whether to impose rationality on these extremists by making them have schools, roads, courts and so on. This is a difficult choice because we end up having to fight to tax ourselves to make people in Douglas or Ferry County have the basic necessities of American life, such as schools, when the leadership there is opposed to any taxes they might make this possible.
Angry – You’re kidding, right AV? Goldy links to an article where the elected officials of the rural counties admit they’re bankrupt and have to shut down essential services and your only response is about pools and trash as a reply? The article goes to great lengths to explain why rural counties are in trouble because of I-695 and I-747 and your only comment is that government has to “take in order to give” as if it’s some big revelation. Where are the facts that support your conclusion?
Also, I’d like to see your facts refuting the point in the opinion piece that those policies were started by liberals and opposed by conservatives. Social Security, the expansion of national highways? FDR. Called “communism” by conservatives at the time. Workman’s comp, child labor laws, 8-hour day? Progressives, opposed by the conservative business owners (think of the BIAW, Rossi, etc.).
Your knee-jerk tax opposition is short-sighted and will ultimately hurt life in “Red” America.
Jim King comment…sorry folks-you want revenue, provide for a healthy economy. But liberals have no clue as to how to go about that>>>>>>>You must be referring to the great economic turndown we suffered through the 90’s.
>>>>>>I voted for Bush because Kerry doesn’t have a clue when it comes to the economy>>>>>>>>>>>>And Bush does?
Also, I don’t think it helpful or accurate to refer to Starkman as a STUDID liberal. When I read your comments, I often think you are mistaken, but I’ve never thought that you are stupid. Now, there are contributors to these comments that seem to put great effort into proving that they do deserve that title, but they are, thankfully, in the minority (but ever vocal).
jcricket–
You are saying BIAW & Rossi oppose Child Labor Laws???
You seem to be losing it. I guess your goal of a job in the Gregoire Administration is evaporating. You didn’t buy a home in Olympia yet, did you jcricket? Since you are paid to contribute by the Dems/Unions, at least folks understand where you are coming from.
No one has ever paid me a dime or in any way told me what to say on any blog. I’m a free-agent who believes in small business as essential to a livable society. People who risk capital and work hard….as opposed to too many bottom-feeders like you jcricket that needs the government.
Hey Cynical – who here is paid to contribute?
You may want to shut up before your fat mouth gets you in trouble.
Re Jim King comment on Starkman article.
Sorry, I intended to say also that I took the meaning of Starkman’s piece to be that democracy requires a well-informed public to make informed choices in elections for public office, and his offering was a lament that many, perhaps the majority, of voters are ill-informed and vote their prejudices rather than their and their fellow-voters self-interest. Whether or not he would still be lamenting had Kerry won is an open question.
MtOlyHiker–
Take a hike!!!!!!
MtOlyHiker “shut up before your fat mouth gets you in trouble”?
What kind of trouble dude?
No one has paid me a dime or directed me in any way about anything I have said. Others cannot say the same…like jcricket.
Jcricket spews the typical Dem “talking points”. I am a volunteer who has carefully observed a number of elections…beginning to end. I like in a County that has done a great job of reconciling and accounting so every ballot has a voter. Simple concept.
And it can be done…despite what Logan & Huennekens say…The Abbott & Costello of Elections said it was “IMPOSSIBLE”, remember?
I got involved when I saw every County did not reconcile. This pisses me off because on 8/24/04, the SOS direct them to do so.
Logan & Huennekens ignore the intent of the directive. Now Reed appears to want to cover-up.
R’s and D’s and L’s must come together to force the clean-up of this messy Voter Registration and Ballot processing activities.
It won’t happen if this electionis merely swept under the rug.
Now MtOlyHiker–you appear to want to sweep this under the rug.
AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!!! Grab your ankles dude! Hiking and Bike trails may be your Utopia but some people have to actually “earn” a living.
Cynical… I can’t ask you to prove that you do NOT have connections to the BIAW or that you do not have a financial interest in promoting their policy… but if you are going to accuse Cricket of being paid to contribute here, I can ask you to BACK IT UP!
Come on… show me your evidence. Or else I’ll just consider that accusation one more stinking turd in the huge pile of bullshit you’ve deposited here over the past couple months.
AMEN GOLDY
Now Chuck may be a radical libertarian himself (or even an anarchist),>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
nice try Goldy, chuck is niether of these, Chuck is a conservative that tends to vote republican but sometimes democrat and every once in a while Ill sway libretarian but not often. But I believe in limited government intervention and when government can get their tax money from volintary optional taxes (like say gambling taxes) I am for it….did I help you any?
I am wondering where the elected officials got off tacking swimming pools, custodans and fire trucks onto the MVET anyway?
When I moved here from NY, nearly 30 years ago, I was surprised by the tax structure. So there’s no income tax, but fees here and there to make up revenue. Well we still have no income tax, but now don’t want the fees either. Folks, there’s no free lunch. You do need fire trucks and custodians, and I’d even argue for the occassional pool. So we need to find a way to pay for them.
You do need fire trucks and custodians, and I’d even argue for the occassional pool. So we need to find a way to pay for them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You dont need old fire trucks or custodians in a town of 350, and pools can be user paid, if that interest isnt there the pool is un-needed
Surely you are joking. Should they trust luck that there will not be a fire?
Is this the same Jim King who so suffily said the Dems would fall apart and not confirm the newly elected Gov. Gregoire?
Glad to se he was wrong about their ability to unify. Hold on Jim, the lawsuit is crap too. As a mainstream R you are in a world of hurt. Your politicl choices are now limited. Ultra right wing who will loot the state treasury and let ruin and chaos reign in the name of some fiscal ethic, their own greed, or just letting whole systems fail in favor of a muddy pudding of elitism, law and order statism and creating a broad underclass as cheap labor.
Need to change your party, Jim. Call youself a centrist Dem.
In the long run, the market works. It is apparent that the cities have been subsidizing the rural areas. This is happening throughout the country by various means, including a national policy of price supports.
What finally becomes obvious is that agriculture in this country is now a big business, and no longer the purview of the little guy. If these farmers in E WA want to live miles from services, that is there right. But, they shouldn’t expect others to pay them to do so. If we have been sending funds to them, then we have just been enabling a life style that is unsustainable.
Maybe a lot of agriculture in Washington shouldn’t be happening here. We need illegals to harvest many of the crops, because the same crops are grown in Mexico and shipped here for cheaper prices. The consumers (you and me) don’t want to buy $3.99 raspberries. Subsidizing farming won’t change the fact. It just keeps scarce resources from being put to better use.
There are trade-offs everywhere. Lower taxes means that individuals get to keep their own money and decide where they want to spend it. If I want to spend my money on expensive locally grown produce, that is my business. But, if I want to go to Wal-mart and buy a shirt made in China instead, that is also my right.
Remember the Great System of Dams we all value so highly are the pure legacy of FDR. Great Public Works projects, fought tooth and nail in the old days by R’s, and questioned many times since…..thanks Maggie and Scoop….and many other true old Dems.
By the way- it is nuts to not notice how Seattle is willing to tax itself for its institutions. No magic, we PAY real money from our taxes and vote bonds to do so.
Housing levys, opera house, new library system, new city hall and municial court and police stations………what a list.
Going back 30 years with Forward Thrust. Hundreds and hundreds of millions….we vote the bonds, buld the infrastructures……and pay the taxes.
Live with 4th rate civic structure if you wish. Sad.
Janet – you live in the 60 ies. Farm subsidies? What are you talking about……glad to see you think we should be food dependant on imports.
No system in the world for producing anything matchers the American farmer. None.
On any basis. Yield, productivity, hard capital investment per worker, none.
Thank your God. Makes our American standard of living possible. Some economies spend 40 per cent of invome for food. We spend 6-8 per cent. Biggest bargain in the world.
Surely you are joking. Should they trust luck that there will not be a fire?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and retired a firetruck to stay within the department’s $11,000 annual budget…….Did you read that? A FIRE TRUCK, not THE fire truck, not all of the fire trucks, ONE truck out of how many? It also says RETIRED the truck, not reassigned or sold, sounds like it was an old truck that outlived its usefullness.
Thank your God. Makes our American standard of living possible. Some economies spend 40 per cent of invome for food. We spend 6-8 per cent. Biggest bargain in the world.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Some economies dont have to spend $400.00 plus for auto insurance, $5000.00 + per year on property taxes, cannot afford a car…shall I go on?
Chuck – buy guns, stock up on food, take your family to the woods of N. Idaho, and wait for the UN invasion from Canada.
Rob some banks, and cheat the IRS on the way.
Janet – you live in the 60 ies. Farm subsidies?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
60s? We subsidize the hell out of farms now, I guess not enough for the libs though…
Chuck – buy guns, stock up on food, take your family to the woods of N. Idaho, and wait for the UN invasion from Canada.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You missed my point, it was in response to what percentage we pay for food compared to other nations, I was simply responding with the things we pay that others do not.
Goldy–
So your rules are:
1) Lefty’s can accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being a “paid-blogger” and you turn a blind eye.
2) If someone accuse’s a Lefty of being paid, Goldy goes POSTAL!!!!!
This is one of the great challenges in the world Goldy. As the architect of this blog, you set the rules. But don’t you think you ought to hold peole of your own ilk, like jcricket, to a higher standard than low-lifes like me?????
Oh and Goldy–
I’m still waiting (2 days & counting) for you to explain to us exactly how L&I determines the total Retro Refund Pool to distribute
to all Associations. Remember, Goldy, you told us you are an expert. Or is that just another of your many turds!
Goldy, did you forget that I-695 was struck down by the courts? Courts 1, Eyman 0.
The legislature passed a bill somewhat similar to I-695. The Legislature had the opportunity then and has had the opportunity every year since then, to fix any problems. I know you hate Tim, but enough of bashing an Initiative struck down by the courts. Eyman lost in court.
It was the Legislature who read the election results and decided to act.
And I’d still like to know, can you fix your comments box so it shows the whole line, or is it Mozilla? If I shrink the type-size down to around 5 or 6 point the whole line shows up but at my age I can’t read it.
Careful Cynical – it’s not “anyone” who disagrees with us. Just you, because of your repeated pattern of overt lies (and posting under multiple alias) and your pitch-perfect parroting of the BIAW’s point of view (sometimes even before they say the same thing to the press). I’m pretty sure that the only person here who is not who they claim to be is you Good job at avoiding the question, though.
BTW – just to clear it up. I’m not paid by anyone connected to the Democratic party, government or any lobbying organization. I’m an individual citizen, and a well-informed moderate Democrat (some regulations bad, war not automatically wrong). I’m simply not willing to allow you/the BIAW and the other Republicans to monopolize yet another forum with your bullying tactics.
Tim only finds the pulse of the state voter, that is all. I personally dont agree with his financial arrangements BUT I dont contribute, I simply sign petitians and vote (yes or no depending on the subject)
Oh, and Chuck? Farm subsidies are a Republican thing. You know, all those heartland voters that the Republicans don’t want to tick off. Steel subsidies too. The “be self-sufficient anti-government/tax rhetoric” gets casually tossed aside when Republicans need to provide “free money” to prop up industries in Red states.
Democrats usually argue against farm subsidies because by propping up American farmers (who have high fixed costs), it also serves to prevent 3rd world countries from supplying any food to America. Those pesky 3rd worlders, how dare they try to become self-sufficient capitalists by using the abundance of available labor and cheap land to earn money in a legal fashion. We’ve got to keep them out with protectionist policies.
I’m not in favor of most subsidies like that (I’m not in favor of big pay-offs like the $3.2 billion to Boeing either). I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the whole “economic incentive” argument. Some subsidies that encourage businesses and prevent illegal foreign dumping (below market-value prices) are good, but subsidies that artificially prop up prices or serve mainly to keep foreign competition out are bad.
BTW – just to clear it up. I’m not paid by anyone connected to the Democratic party, government or any lobbying organization. I’m an individual citizen, and a well-informed moderate Democrat (some regulations bad, war not automatically wrong). I’m simply not willing to allow you/the BIAW and the other Republicans to monopolize yet another forum with your bullying tactics.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You know really I dont think anyone on this blog cares a fat rats ass who may or may not be “paid” by anyone, why doesnt everyone just lighten up on the personal shit and enjoy a discussion? Lets face it we arent going to agree on much, but if we shell out ideas we may at least understand each other a bit more. Cool a bit guys. (oh shit I broke my soapbox!)
jcricket–
So now you accuse me of posting under multiple aliases???
No way…no need. You’ve accused me of this before knowing it’s untrue.
Anyone who disagrees with you is guilty of “overt lies”???
Anyone who agrees with some of what BIAW says, must be paid to post??
jcricket–you are the regular “accuser” but you expect us to believe you are merely an “individual citizen”?? We are ALL “individual citizens lameass!!
I hope those that visit this blog look carefully at how jcricket chooses his words…very clever wordsmith..adept at twisting and lying. Patheticly transparent jcricket.
Hell, Josef even thought you were a she!!!
Oh, and Chuck? Farm subsidies are a Republican thing. You know, all those heartland voters that the Republicans don’t want to tick off. Steel subsidies too.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have a lot of relatives into farming, Im not talking about a 100 acre Washington “farm” Im talking about 30 section farms and ranches in New Mexico and Texas. You remember Ronald Reagan? The Republican? He made drastic cuts to farm subsidies and the farmers squeeled murder…Remember Melencamp and his farm aid concerts and the likes? Clinton put them back in stronger than ever. We bought entire dairys under Clinton, dont hand me the republican farm subsidy crap!
Chuck – Te old firetruck hadn’t outlived its usefuleness. The county retired it because they “could no longer afford the annual maintenace”. If they no longer needed it, the article would read “counties getting rid of luxuries they used in boom times” (like articles where we read about tech companies in Seattle getting rid of perks). You are entitled to your opinion that smaller counties don’t need x number of fire trucks or y amount of schools because of their small size. But the individuals in those counties, who probably know far more than you about what the county needs, clearly say otherwise. Let’s just have one fire truck, because we all know there is never more than one fire at a time, or a fire that needs more than one fire truck. And hey, why not have one person run everything in the county – mayor, judge, post office delivery person, snow plower, teacher, doctor. Sounds great.
You keep trying to avoid what the direct quotes from the affected individuals makes very clear: Poor counties are being forced to choose which essential services they shut down to stave off bankruptcy. In one to two years some of those same counties are going to shut down all of their services and unincorporate. That gets rid of all services, not just those you deem “luxuries”, like a pool or janitors. Soon they will have no fire trucks, no local schools, no snow plowing, no road maintenance, and no local hospitals, to name a few.
Which reminds me – rural hospitals? Most of them can’t survive without the generosity of progressive programs that subsidize doctors salaries so those doctors will work in those rural hospitals. Not to mention how many of the rural folks rely on forms of public transportation to take them to hospitals or deliver grociers or bring books. I suppose all the old poor people should just suck it up when Eyman takes away the money that makes it possible to live where they want, far away from the city?
Why am I even asking… You’ll probably start claiming that the reason those old people need public assistance is the high cost of property taxes, despite clear evidence to the contrary.
RDC- Government didn’t do shit for us in the 90’s, except allow a bunch of phony accounting that created a wonderfully FAKE boom, that went BUST. Democrat accounting- thank Joe Lieberman and Bill Clinton for that.
And jcricket- FDR had been dead quite a few years, and we were on to the second president after him, when EISENHOWER put through the interstate highway system.
And conservative Robert Taft got a proper stasrt on public housing. It took good Democrat liberals to turn them into PROJECTS…
no local schools>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Basic education is fully funded
Not to mention how many of the rural folks rely on forms of public transportation to take them to hospitals or deliver grociers or bring books.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For years when people have got into that shape they have moved to town.
Cynical – keep trying. I’ve never accused “anyone” of being a double-poster here but you. I’ve never accused anyone of being paid but you. And I’ve never accused anyone of “overt lies” but you. Because clearly you’re the only one guilty of all three, and I’m not the only one who thinks it.
Remember all your claims about seeing multiple copies of Larry Phillips’ signature? Or was that part of a crime. You never did answer that.
On the lighter side how about every single claim you’ve ever made about what the Dems were gonna “find out in court” when the Republicans “showed their hand” being complete BS. But keep going, I’ll enjoy it when you blow a gasket as the Republicans lose in court, again :)
Chuck – Te old firetruck hadn’t outlived its usefuleness. The county retired it because they “could no longer afford the annual maintenace”. If they no longer needed it,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No the operative word is “retired”, not sold, not transferred to another district but RETIRED…it has outlived its usefullness!
But the individuals in those counties, who probably know far more than you about what the county needs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The individuals you speak of are on the public dole already, ask any government official anywhere if they have enough money or people?
jcricket, Eyman didn’t take the money from the poor old people. The voters did first, the court struck that down, then the Legislature did.
Face it, the state budget was way too bloated when 695 passed. The distribution of tax money to the poor old people just has to be made a higher priority by our democrat controlled govt. What did Gary Locke and the rest of them do in the time since 695 cuts went into effect to fix the rural problems? Nothing. Here’s an idea: gut the GMA, then the planning departments that every city and county has to overstaff to manage the GMA could be cut back, there’s a start on the funding.
And as an irregular commenter on this post, I vote that Mr C may be onto something. You sure come across like a paid political hack. Maybe if you toned it down he would change his opinion.
Guess everyone ran out of gas…
Goldy is almost out of gas Chuck.
If you, zip the ASSman, Jim King, Richard Pope and I weren’t posting here, he would be dead in the water. I enjoy Goldy…even though he doesn’t know much about the Retro Rebate Program.
The rest of the posters are political hacks like jcricket, Bob from Boeing, bby and a few others.
Stefan Sharkansky has got the upperhand bigtime @ http://www.soundpolitics.com
Stefan does his homework..works extremely hard and has pretty much made Goldy irrelevant.
I’m done wasting my time here.
The Court case starts Thursday.
Chuck–I say let these boneheads talk to each other…a circle jerk, I believe they call it.
I will continue to post @ soundpolitics.
See you on the RIGHT-side!!
J C sounds like a well educted political mind. Likes politics….good discussion. Sees to the bottom line very well. Logical thinker. Articulate and has good keyboard and spelling skills.
What is the beef? Paid political hack…. not at all…. Good Democrat, yes. Tired of the increasingly shrill and divisive right, you bet. So am I.
What ever Chris Vance thiks, and some of the bitter R’s here, the Dems have a great future in this state.
Pam Roach for Gov? R’s have done worse. Vance for Senate, go, go, go.
jcricket
The battle of ideas between yourself and Chuck are both edifying and revealing. What have you won if you are merely the more effective name-caller and charge-hurler?.
You ought to pound this sucker mercilesly Why not claim his mother wears combat boots? You could also accuse this cretin of devouring an all-day sucker in under 8 hours. Dishonest advertisig and representation! Just imagine how many suckers would be disensucked if the 8 hour stndard were widely applied.
Wow. What an amazing amount of posts for a pretty mundane topic.
No Cynical, although I look in in Soundpolitics now and again, I kind of like it here, it is like watching people trying to arrange deck chairs on the Titanic while everyone is telling them of the hemmoraging leak and impending disaster…they still want the chairs to be neatly arranged for the dance….
I suppose you are right Chuck–
Although I view Goldy and his gang of trying to build a new deck on there warm cozy home…WARM BECAUSE THEIR DAMN HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!
Cynical – good riddance! And puhh-lease take Chuck with you to the circle wank-off at (u)SP! He can have a much better time watching the Titanic sink from there! You two can toast, cheer and suck up to the Shark as he celebrates yet another appearance on wingnut Radio or the Republican Club show on the Seattle Channel.
I hear you’re pretty good with figures. Maybe you can help Jim Miller “prove” his theory of distributed vote fraud or some other pet fantasy.
We’ll be snickering and clapping when the BIA.. err Dino Rossi’s bogus election challenge implodes!
After that debacle finishes, don’t bother coming here because we’ll be discussing boring stuff like how to move Democratic Party politics and policies forward.
And don’t let the door hit you on the proudASS as you leave!
Oh Cynical… have I hurt your feelers? Have I not paid you enough attention recently? It’s just that I’m a touch too busy to respond to the hundred-plus comments left here a day.
As to retro, as I’m sure you remember, I have never claimed expertise — in fact, my previous words were “I may not be an expert on workers compensation reform (yet).” Go check it out. But I understand it enough to know what it is, and why it was implemented. I think that’s enough start a discussion.
So say thank you… because you didn’t really deserve an answer.
Get real John, if we werent here this blos would be as exiting as watching pool on TV
Boring is just fine with me Chuck-O. Besides the “ship” is sinking here. Better jump overboard with Cynical and swim over to (u)SP.
You can do your “I told you so’s.” over there.
You wouldn’t want to get drowned here in a sea of liberal angst.
Watching Chuck and Cynical perform as this blog’s Washington Generals makes me wonder why we should even care about these rural towns. Let them starve, I’ll spend the extra money on higher gas prices.
Incidentally, what the Republicans really want is for the “dumb liberals” to pay all of the taxes while they pay none, but still have access to the bank account.
JCricket,
The facts are in front of you jackass (that is your party right?) I shall now quit arguing with a fool ,lest someone forget who is who. You have zero capacity for reason.
Incidentally, what the Republicans really want is for the “dumb liberals” to pay all of the taxes while they pay none, but still have access to the bank account.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No we just want the liberals to stay out of our pockets.
Terry J – (Not sure if you were using sarcasm or not – in case you’re not…) You’ll note that I haven’t cursed or told anyone their mom wears combat boots. I read the articles Goldy links to and try to educate myself more on the subject before responding. If someone like Chuck wants to repeatedly ignore the point, I may respond harshly, but I do my best to at least source all my arguments, stay on subject, check my spelling/grammar, use paragraph breaks and avoid unnecessary ad hominem attacks.
I’m also not sure how long you’ve been here, but in the past Cynical made quite specific claims that were proven to be lies (or part of a crime), not simply matters of opinion, and he’s avoided repeated requests to explain his behavior since (while also not apologizing). He is the only poster who I believe doesn’t deserve reasonable responses or respect.
And for these efforts we’re called “jackasses”, “fools” and people who have “zero capacity for reason.” Someone once said that she “prayed to God (I) don’t have children”. So that’s the level of discourse we Democrats deal with from the Republicans. And Republicans continue to create falsely equate our criticism (however harsh) of their ideas as somehow equal to their racism, homophobia, ad hominem attacks, rumors and innuendo. It’s fine to dismiss our opinions as opinions, but the level of attacks from the Republicans rise far above that.
Also Goldy could choose to make HA a parallel to SP and simply ban everyone like Chuck, Cynical, Angry Voter, ProudAss and HomoPphobe, but he actually encourages debate and encourages the readers to “police” themselves. If people want a place where only Republicans get to talk, they can go to Sound Politics.
I, for one, don’t plan on changing my opinions based on being personally attacked. If someone like Jim King points out legal arguments or data that refute my points or cause me to go investigate, then great. But I find it hard to believe that a Republican believes they’ve won the argument because they’ve called someone a fool.
jcricket–pathetic effort at “self-promotion”. No sale..you are a paid Dem hack.
And Goldy–it sure took you a whole lot of words to say you didn’t have a clue how the L&I actuary determines the Retro rebate pool of dollars to be distributed. Obviously, you don’t care to know…or you would simply make 1 phone call to L&I’s actuary.
The truth shall set you free Goldy.
I enjoy being minimized by paid hacks like jcricket.
I also enjoy challenging you to actually do your homework on a very simple matter (Retro Refunds) BEFORE you spout off.
Obviously you are too busy and important to get the facts directly from the L&I actuary. He will tell you those refund dollars are EARNED not just a result of L&I overcharging premium as you and Erik have alleged.
I’m also not sure how long you’ve been here, but in the past Cynical made quite specific claims that were proven to be lies (or part of a crime), not simply matters of opinion, and he’s avoided repeated requests to explain his behavior since (while also not apologizing)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
God man give it a rest, you are sounding like your needle is stuck….
No we just want the liberals to stay out of our pockets.
While digging as deeply into ours as possible.
Cricket, you ignore any attempt to call your BS. The simple fact (yes fact) is that you cannot base a premise upon another unproven opinion. It is very basic logic, which you seem to either have no clue to, or choose to ignore. Don’t let the facts get in the way of forming an opinion (yes opinion). I do tip my hat to Goldy, while being wrong on some issues, he attempts to gather FACTS sometimes.
OK, so you guys are all like Dave Ross (and you like him too, I’ll bet.) Down with E. Wash, a bunch of redneck hicks who sponge off our taxpayers here on the green side of the mts. I’d love to live over there and pull the electric plug heading for western wash. out of all the dams, and spill all the water for the fish and white water yuppies, and tell the Snohomish PUD that the new rate for juice was gonna be 50 cents/kwh courtesy of the E.Wash Elec OPEC. Take it or live it. For Prius drivers – $5/kwh.
Hey Bob B…. just one question: who built those dams?