HorsesAss.Org

Please join us for an evening of politics under the influence at tonight’s Seattle Chapter of Drinking liberally.

We meet every Tuesday at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E. Starting time is 8:00 pm, but a few folks show up earlier for dinner.

Can’t make it tonight? There are a bunch of nearby meetings. The Tri-Cities chapter of Drinking liberally meets every Tuesday night. Drinking Liberally Bellingham also meets tonight beginning at 7:00pm. Drinking Liberally Tacoma meets this Thursday, 7:00pm at the Hub Restaurant. The brand new Woodinville chapter of Drinking Liberally meets next Monday at 7:00 pm. Also next Monday, the Olympia chapter of Drinking Liberally meets at 7:00pm.

With 227 chapters of Living Liberally, including thirteen in Washington state and six more in Oregon, chances are excellent there’s one near you.

A couple of months ago, State Auditor Brian Sonntag made the “difficult” decision to not jump into the gubernatorial race. At the time I wrote:

Sonntag is nominally a Democrat, with a track record that includes things like endorsing Republican King County Executive candidate Susan Hutchison, snuggling spooning blowing Tim Eyman, and participating in Teabagger events.

We can only hope that the buzz about a potential Sonntag gubernatorial bid has encouraged some talented people to think about running for the open Auditor seat. And with any luck, they’ll still run, but now against Sonntag. Otherwise, I’m afraid, Sonntag will maintain his grip on the State Auditor’s office…well, until it’s pried out of his cold, dead hands.

Sonntag remains amongst the living. But, apparently, he came up short on a self-performance audit. Today he announced his intention to retire from the position, leaving another statewide open seat—the fourth.

So let’s all follow Dwight Pelz’s lead and thank Brian and wish him well:

“Brian Sonntag’s 35 year record of public service goes nearly unmatched in Washington State. He has been a true state leader, an advocate for the people of Washington, and an independent voice in the Democratic Party. On his retirement from the auditor’s office, we wish him our heartfelt thanks and congratulations.”

I have no idea who will run for the open position. Perhaps Susan DelBene? DelBene has an MBA from the University of Washington. The former tech-sector CEO and Microsoft corporate VP ran unsuccessfully against Rep. Dave Reichert in 2010. She is currently director for the Washington State Department of Revenue. DelBene’s resume looks quite good for the position.

Republicans just don’t bother to put up candidates for the position anymore.

[S]tate GOP spokesman Josh Amato said Monday: “We liked what Brian was doing. We weren’t working on taking him out of office.”

With the office open, however, Republicans expect to have qualified candidates willing to run, Amato said.

Here’s an idea that will add some zest to the race: Republicans should draft Tim “Biggest Lie of My Life” Eyman. Tim should grow the fuck up and compete for a real job. He can then stop his continuous begging for (and occasional theft of) money from his supporters. And he can give up his whoring ways, “servicing” rich donors like Michael Dunmire and Kemper Freeman, Jr. Eyman can go all respectable on us.

On the other hand…maybe Republicans can repeat their 2004 strategy: putting Will Baker on the ballot for State Auditor.

– It’s been discussed in the last thread, but crowds at GOP debates sure do like the idea of people dying.

– Poor Donald Rumsfield.

– For the Children.

– Tacoma teachers vote to strike.

– The beast that kills jobs.

– For some reason.

Yee Haw! The first ever “Tea Party Presidential Debate” is starting on CNN, staring Wolf Blitzer!?!

So break out your pitchforks and anti-Obama Nazi-inspired signs and cheer along to the crazy!

5:05 (PDT): I may add some comments as the debate progresses. But, really, is there any point? My hunch is that the sheer crazy will be stand-alone entertaining.

5:11: Did Newt Gingrich REALLY just suggest that the teabagger battle against the government is really like the War on Terror?!? So…Newt believes the U.S. government is like al Qaeda?

5:14: Perry says that nobody has the “courage to fix [Social Security].” I think a former Texas Governor might disagree with that. Of course, Americans rejected that attempt.

5:16: Mitt’s decided he’ll take over asking questions for the debate.

5:18: Ron Paul claims that Social Security IS broke. I guess it depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.

5:21: Newt Gingrich favors scaring the American people because “Obama frightens them every day.” In other words, “Obama is a scary black man.”

5:23: Rick Santorum, “I came out in 1994….”

PROMOTED COMMENT Via Michael: Huntsman goes for the non-existent righty grunge vote with a Curt Cobain reference! [Darryl: Yeah…that was really awkward.]

5:37: Rick Perry just claimed the stimulus created ZERO jobs!?! That is provably false.

5:39: Bachmann, “I said, ‘Don’t raise the debt ceiling….Don’t give the President a $2.5T blank check.” Somebody should point out to Michele that there was no blank check…the $2.5T was already spent.

5:41: Mittster recycles his pay-phone/cell phone quarter-jamming line.

5:43: Mitt sure knows a lot about Texas Economics. Mitt on Perry’s job growth record, “If your dealt 4 aces, it doesn’t necessary make you a great poker player.” Yeah…like Mitt hasn’t been dealt 4 aces in his life….

5:45: Perry wants to kick all the trial lawyers out. He might need to pass a constitutional amendment first….

5:46: Perry has a strong record of cutting taxes in Texas. Sure…and then filling in the missing revenue from Obama’s stimulus funds.

5:54: Wolf Blitzer misquotes Perry. Perry did not suggest Bernanke be “tried for treason” he suggested that “printing more money” would be treasonous. Sheesh!

6:03: Mitt briefly turned liberal, as he criticizes the “fair tax” for being too regressive.

6:06: Man…Bachmann sure goes off the deep end on HPV vaccine discussion.

6:09: Rick Perry is insulted by the suggestion he can be bribed for $5000. Right…it takes a hell of a lot more money than that!

6:18: Ron Paul: The churches will pay for the heath care costs of the uninsured!

6:28: Santorum and Newt are having a love fest between them this debate.

6:30: Wow…Perry may have just lost the entire bunch of teabaggers with his affirmation in support for out-of-state tuition for undocumented residents.

6:32: Huntsman says Perry’s statement on securing the border is treasonous. What the fuck debate is he listening to? I’m not judging the merits of Perry’s statement, but it sure the hell didn’t approach treason!

6:34: Huntsman is babbling nearly as badly as Bachmann tonight. Is he fucking stoned?!?

6:43: Huntsman: More American “shine” will liberate the oppressed women of Afghanistan.

6:49: The “what would you bring to the White House” question was a complete waste of time. Wait…the whole debate doesn’t really qualify as a great use of time. About as “valuable” as watching a typical sitcom.

Conclusion:

I used to think that Huntsman was the least crazy of the bunch. Now I think he has a drug problem.

Perry worked very hard to come off as a moderate. I guess his days as a shit-kickin’ Texan are over. Huh…that strategy seems vaguely familiar….

Mitt began the debate all worked up and then quickly faded to just another right-wing talking point machine.

Michele…Oh, those eyes and their crazy hypnotic spinning!

Newt still demands he be called, “Mr. Speaker.”

Herman Cain…slogan city. And he closes the debate by, essentially, saying that Americans are lacking in humor.

Santorum…eeewwwww, YUCK!

Paul…the same unelectable, semi-babbling person who isn’t afraid to call it like he sees it.

The condescending anti-worker editorials are coming fast from The Trib. Today’s is about a possible strike by Tacoma teachers (who have already once agreed not to strike, and got nothing for that).

They have starkly different visions of what that is. Teachers want to hold the line on salaries, class sizes, and policies regarding displacements and transfers. School administrators, facing state and federal mandates to improve performance and the prospect of yet more budget cutbacks, want more flexibility from the teachers union so that they can deal with those challenges.

If it’s public or private, “flexibility” means management does whatever the hell it wants without any accountability.

Tacoma’s teachers should vote today not to strike, to keep teaching and to continue negotiating without a contract. If they do vote to strike, the administration should immediately seek a court injunction. Any judge that gets the case should assess daily fines on teachers who do not report to their classrooms.

However Tacoma teachers vote today, I oppose this anti-union strategy. A strike is a big deal, and I think it’s fair to say that they would prefer to be teaching. But the teachers know what’s at stake more than the ed boards, and if 80% of members are willing to strike, it says more about the administration than the union.

Last week’s contest was won by milwhcky. It was Asheville’s Fun Depot in Asheville, NC.

This week’s contest is related to a TV show or a movie. Good luck!

Revelation 18:8-10
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Discuss.

I’m not big on posts like this, but 9/11 was obviously one of the most significant events of our lifetime. For someone who’s always been interested in the world both within and outside of America’s borders, the attacks of that day signified for me a new era in how America interacts with the world. It forced all of us to take our ideals and re-shape them for a new era, one in which technology made the world smaller and more interdependent than ever, but the old rules about needing to provide necessary constraints against government never went away.

The one thing I remember about that morning 10 years ago was how quick I just “knew”. It’s not that I ever imagined a terrorist attack like the one we experienced, but it was merely the odd coincidence of my phone ringing at 6:30am and then minutes later hearing a radio news reporter say the words “and one tower has fallen” before I reflexively banged on my snooze button. It clicked in my head instantly that something major was happening and I jumped out of bed, ran to the living room and put on the TV. I made it into work by about noon that day – after frantically calling friends and family out east – and was little more than a zombie, unable to focus on anything other than the realization that America wasn’t immune from spectacular acts of violence.

One thing that I find interesting is that when I hear the stories of others – particularly those of an older generation – talk about it, I’m often struck by how many of them instantly thought: this is war. I never thought that. I still don’t. At the time, I was a 26-year-old who believed that the world was at a point where wars like World War II couldn’t happen again. There was too much interaction in all aspects of our global existence for that to happen again. Five years and a month before that horrible day, I was at a Pizza Hut in St. Petersburg, Russia. The end of the cold war occurred while I was in high school, and the world I began to explore was supposed to be content with free market economies and shitty American pizza. But for those who lived through earlier times, the violence of 9/11 was seen through a lens of many years of concern over an event like that coming from a foreign government hell-bent on annihilating America.

Terrorism is an act born of powerlessness. It’s the most craven expression of political impotence one can conjure. The logic of terrorism is that the average everyday person isn’t sufficiently animated by your plight, and therefore they bear some guilt for it. It’s a twisted pathology that will sadly exist throughout the history of humanity. We can’t defeat it any more than we can defeat other failings of the human condition. But we can make it worse whenever we support policies that leave people powerless. Personal and political autonomy needs to be a focus in everything we do politically, and how we interact with the world.

But very little of that has happened. Instead, we’ve allowed ourselves to be terrified and submissive, giving up many of our own freedoms out of a baseless fear of further attacks. It would be too simple to blame that on one particular group. This was an all-American trend in the days and months after 9/11, but the trend is finally reversing. 9/11 signified the onset of a new mindset of “permanent war” in Washington. We accepted it because that day scared us. But it’s time to recognize that no matter how horrible an act of violence is, allowing our government to be unrestrained in the name of “fighting terrorism” is far worse.

Al Jazeera has an interesting report about the town of Ordos, China, a bustling new metropolis in northern China where almost no one lives – because the vast majority of people who own property there are only doing so as investments.

Olbermann with Arizona state Sen. Steve Gallardo on protecting the Voting Rights Act.

Pap: Republicans continue to fail on national security.

September 11th, Ten Years Later:

• Aloyna’s Fireside Chat: Talking about all the costs of 9/11.
• Ann Telnaes: Our 9/11 response.
• Gen. Eric Sinsheki remembers.
• Eric Holder remembers.
• Leon Panetta remembers.
• Janet Napolitano remembers.
• Young Turks: Ground zero students sick ten years later.
• Alyona’s Tool Time: Rep. West uses 9/11 to spread Islamaphobia
• New recordings released.
• Cafferty: 10 years later, did the terrorists win?
• ONN: Rembering 9/11 a pleasure for nation compared to remembering past 10 years.

Pap and Harry Shearer on “The Big Uneasy,” six years later.

Mark Fiore: Tea Party tradition.

Roy Zimmerman: The Unions Are to Blame:

Joint Address:

• Ann Telnaes: Which Obama will we see?
• Obama’s jobs speech leaked
• Jon: Tales of manufactured conflict. (via TalkingPointsMemo).
• Boehner makes golf small talk with Biden before speech (via The Political Carnival).
• President Obama introduces the American Jobs Act:
• Kimmel: Republicans during the address (via HuffPo).
• Sam Seder: Breaking down Obama’s jobs plan.
• Young Turks: Pros and cons of Obama’s jobs plan.
• Obama discusses The American Jobs Act in Richmond, VA

FAUX News’ Roger Ailes dissembles his way to Worst Person in the World.

Tea Party Zombies:

• Newsy: The Tea Party Zombies Must Die video game.
• Aloyna’s Happy Hour: Tea Party Zombies must die!

Sam Seder: Anti-immigrant NM Gov. Susana Martinez admits that her grandparents were illegal immigrants.

Young Turks: Koch Bros caught on tape…..

Olbermann with Faiz Shakir on the impact of Islamophobia in the U.S..

The G.O.P. Primary Asylum:

• Young Turks: Reagan dominates debate.
• GOP debate in 45 seconds (via AmericaBlog).
• NPR: Science skeptics among GOP presidential hopefuls
• GOP 2012: Chasing the Tea Party.
• Lawrence O’Donnell: Sarah Palin is still not running.
• Young Turks: Michele Bachmann lies about stimulus and jobs.
• Ed: Bachmann doubles down on her “$2 gas” promise.
• Newsy: Bachmann wants to eliminate Dept. of Education.
• Young Turks: Michele’s dubious immigrant statement.
• Michele Bachmann’s back to school message:
• Dick Cheney tells candidates to go fuck themselves watch their mouths.
• Thom and Bill Press analyze the G.O.P. debate.
• Stephen: Why T-Paw dropped out. (via Political Wire).
• Young Turks: Hooray for executions!
• Thom: Rick Perry’s “ponzi scheme” campaign slogan
• Sam Seder: Rick Perry on Social Security.
• Ed with Pap and Brad Friedman: Koch bros. would love a Perry presidency.
• Jon on the Mitt Romney versus Rick Perry debate.
• Lawrence O’Donnell: Mitt’s sci-fi job plan—tax cut after tax cut.
• Jon: Mitt’s plan to create jobs for smartphones or something.
• Maddow: Mitt Romney is threatening to bring back the architect of bush’s economic disaster, Part I and Part II
• Ron Paul on his “altercation” with Rick Perry during the debate (via Mediaite).
• Young Turks: Rick Perry’s “assault” on Ron Paul.
• Surprise, surprise: Orly Taitz for Rick Perry (via The Political Carnival).
• Stephen on the debate and Rick Perry’s Texacution miracle
• Young Turks: Perry cut fire fighting in TX.
• Newsy: Obama tells Congress to pass his jobs bill.
• Ann Telnaes: Perry on Galileo and climate change.
• Young Turks: Mitt v. Rick.
• Sam Seder: Rick Perry’s death penalty record receives thunderous applause from sick-ass Republican.
• Young Turks: Rick Perry and Social Security.
• Stephen on Parry with an “a”-gate.
• Newsy: How’d Perry do in his debut?

Pap: Tea Party hate boils over.

Thom with Ari Berman on The GOP War on Voting.

Obama with a labor day message.

Congresswoman Michele Bachmann crazies her way to Worst Person in the World.

Ann Telnaes: Obama—Boehner silliness.

NPR: It’s All Politics, week in review.

Pap: Republicans celebrated Labor Day by embracing sweat shop capitalism.

Super Committee:

• Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) on Super Committee rules.
• Sen. Patty Murray: Super Committee opening remarks.

Sharpton: U.S. ranks 19th among 19 industrialized nations in ‘avoidable mortalities’.

Thom vs Matthew Vadum: Is registering the poor to vote un-American?

SCTV: Jesus lover:

White House: West Wing Week.

Susie Sampson: Tea Party on labor and jobs (via Crooks and Liars).

Maddow: Obama and Biden come out big for unions on labor day.

Sam Seder: How the right wingers destroyed the U.S. Post Office.

Olbermann and Ken Vogel: Gov. Christie’s relationship with the Koch brothers.

Last week’s Friday Night Multimedia Extravaganza can be found here.

The Washington state Republicans have fallen into something of a mid-life crisis (via SeattlePI.com).

The Washington State Republican Party, splitting from many of its business backers, is endorsing Tim Eyman’s Initiative 1125, which would severely restrict use of tolls to pay for bridge and highway projects.

Republicans have separated from some of their long term partners to “take-up” with the babysitter initiative whore, Tim “biggest like of my life” Eyman.

Former partners are left disappointed, and with a recurring case of small blisters in their rectal region as a reminder of their past passionate relationship. Looking back, they’re deeply regretful of ever going beyond third base with the younger and less-reckless G.O.P. party.

As a coping mechanism, the former partners have joined forces:

…several leading business groups have thrown their support being Keep Washington Rolling, a group that is fighting I-1125. The initiative is on Washington’s November ballot.

Opponents of I-1125 include the Washington Roundtable, the Associated General Contractors of Washington, as well as the Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce.
[…]

“I-1125 is a new attack on transportation and transit projects in Washington State,” Steve Mullin, president of the Washington Roundtable, said as Keep Washington Rolling announced his campaign.

a “nearly unprecedented coalition speaks volumes about just how much harm I-1125 would do to our economy and quality of life in Washington,” Mullin added. Keep Washington Rolling has brought together business, labor and environmental groups.

I’m pretty sure this marks the end of the long-struggling moderate wing of the Washington state Republican party.

– To sum up: a taxpayer-subsidized international conglomerate, which is operating on public property, is suing the public so it can avoid paying the area’s standard wages and undercut its competitors that do. (h/t)

– I keep hearing how McDermott and McGinn never get anything done.

– Obama is responsible for the negative job growth at the end of the Bush administration.

– RIP Brian Fairbrother

– Just one.

– My Kiva team is pretty amazing.

1) Crime is down in the city, but we’ve seen some outrageous incidents involving police in recent years. How do we ensure public safety and not have those sorts of things happen in the future?

I strongly believe that the SPD has many good officers and supervisors – but regret that there have been too many high-profile incidents that have, justifiably, cast a bad light on the department. We need to rebuild mutual trust between citizens and those who work so hard to protect and make our city a safe place to live and work.

I believe that our three-cornered system of police accountability has, for the most part, served us well, but it is clear that we need to work toward improving the system. For one, I support a pilot project to evaluate the use of body cameras for on-duty officers. If the pilot is successful, this may be the wave of the future. Second, we need better police training, most especially in the area of cultural sensitivity. To this end, I support the 11-step proposal of the Public Safety and Education Committee—including enhanced hiring standards and training of officers, expedited review of potential criminal charges against officers, monthly reports of findings of sustained misconduct, and drug-testing for officers involved in the use of deadly force. However, we do need to be cognizant that some of these measures must be negotiated with the Seattle Police Officers’ Guild.

2) Now that the Viaduct is coming down, what should the waterfront look like?

The waterfront should become the city’s front door, comprising a crescent of parks, walkways, bike paths, and a boulevard that stretches from the stadium district to the Sculpture Park. There should be ample sidewalks for outdoor dining, irresistible shops and romantic restaurants, a small boat harbor, trees, shrubs and flowers, and a beach where we can meet the water. I envision a Eurostyle plaza, a children’s spray park, a space for Summer Nights’ on the Pier, perhaps an amphitheater (Shakespeare on the waterfront). New housing opportunities would allow more people to live near where they work. Small businesses would flourish as patrons come from all over to visit our waterfront. The Pike Place Market would tumble down the hill to offer fresh vegetable and flowers, fresh-baked bread and hand-made crafts. Priorities would include a passenger-friendly redevelopment of Colman Dock, an enhanced waiting area for foot ferries, and ample space for Port of Seattle harbor activities.

3) As the great recession drags on, the city budget is still hurting. What do we need to cut, what do we need to keep, and do we need to raise more money via taxation?

As Budget Chair, my top priority has been ensuring that vital human services — such as community health clinics and domestic violence programs— are prioritized. When the Mayor tried to reduce human services, neighborhood programs, and libraries I said “No way.” In addition, I worked to restore funding for community centers and long overdue improvements to our city’s roads and sidewalks. My budget priorities—public safety and human services— have remained the same during both surpluses and shortfalls. These core services need to be our top priorities as we head into the 2012 budget process.

In addition, I recently co-sponsored a resolution to increase efforts to move homeless men and women into permanent housing. We must not forget that, even during these tough economic times, securing a warm bed for those without is a top priority. For example, as chair of the Council’s Budget Committee, I worked to ensure funding for a severe winter shelter at City Hall.

Regarding raising revenue—yes, we do need to raise revenue to pay for critical public services. Unfortunately, state law severely limits the city’s ability to impose taxes to raise revenue. As discussed below, I support two ballot measures (the Families and Education Levy and the Transportation Benefit District) that, if passed, will generate needed revenue to support our education and transportation systems.

4) With its budget shrunk at least until the end of the recession what should Seattle parks look like?

Parks are of great importance to our City, especially during this lingering recession as they are a “zero cost” place for people to relax and recreate. Unfortunately, the Seattle Parks and Recreation Department has taken a large share of the budget cuts. It is to the Department’s credit that, even in these lean times, parks’ grounds are for the most part still looking good and, although somewhat reduced, parks are still offering a variety of recreational activities. I will continue stretch every dollar of revenue so that we can provide our citizens with best parks possible, while also maintaining other critical services.

5) What is the Seattle’s role in education and public transportation given how important they are to the city, but that other agencies are tasked with them?

Although other government levels administer these services– the School Board (responsible for education) and King County and Sound Transit (public transportation), Seattle must continue to play a key role in providing the support necessary to ensure that citizens are being served in these critical areas.

Regarding education, one key role of the City is passing the Families and Education Levy this November. This levy, which the City Council doubled in size, will fund programs to improve children’s readiness for school, student’s academic achievement and reduction of the academic achievement gap, and student’s graduation from high school and preparation for college or a career.

I voted to put this levy on the ballot because of my strong belief that, especially in tough economic times, we must support our most at-risk kids (disproportionally children of color). The

Levy will support academic programs at schools with a high proportion of low-income students, as well as early-learning programs that improve academic success. To this end, even though I am in the midst of a reelection campaign, I have made sure to get out and campaign on behalf of this crucial measure. We must graduate all our students ready either for college or a career.

Regarding public transportation, I backed the Regional Transportation Committee’s move away from the rigid 40/40/20 formula for allocating Metro bus hours (under which 80% of new bus service hours were sent to the suburbs). The 40/40/20 allocation inhibited our ability to provide busses in Seattle, where demand is the highest and service is the most cost effective. I also lobbied on behalf of King County’s passage of a $20 car-tab fee in order to prevent a 17% reduction in Metro service in Seattle over the next two years.

At the same time, I voted to place on the ballot an annual Vehicle License Fee of $60 that, if approved by voters, will allow the City to make major improvements to our transit system while also providing safer roads for drivers and bicyclists, as well as safer crosswalks and sidewalks for pedestrians. It is the City’s duty to preserve and maintain the infrastructure that allows goods and services to move safely and quickly through our streets.

You can catch it live almost everywhere (try KUOW).

Like Carl yesterday, I won’t be able to live blog it—must finish a project with a deadline.

Talk among yourselves.

Plan ahead for the closure of the Viaduct starting October 21 (h/t).

The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) will close the majority of the Alaskan Way Viaduct at 7:30 p.m. on Friday, October 21 until 5 a.m. Monday, October 31.

During the closure, crews will tear down large sections of the southern mile of the viaduct, and complete temporary connections to a new SR 99 bridge currently under construction on the west side of the viaduct in SODO. Also, the northbound viaduct between the South Royal Brougham Way on-ramp and the Battery Street Tunnel will open from 5 a.m. to 7 p.m., Monday through Friday, and for special events at CenturyLink Field, but closed other times.

Drivers are encouraged to consider alternatives to their normal commute. WSDOT suggests the following options: carpooling, vanpooling riding the bus, water taxi, train or light rail; working from home or adjusting work schedules; checking traffic conditions before hitting the roads; using alternate routes where possible; delaying or combining trips.

Personally, I encourage carpooling, vanpooling riding the bus, water taxi, train or light rail even on days when the Viaduct is working fine.

My prediction: Most news outlets won’t cover it much until a week ahead and then will be like OHMYGOD!!!!!!!!!!! for a solid week. Then traffic is a little worse downtown but not much. But like I-5 a few years ago, or I-405 in LA, people will adjust and be fine.