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Via West Seattle Blog:

[The following] video is getting West Seattle a bit of national attention tonight in the ongoing controversy over Target’s donation to a Minnesota candidate with a history of opposing gay rights. The musical protest took place in the Westwood Village Target store on Saturday, apparently around 11 am

Comments

  2. 2

    A Russian dairy tycoon has ordered his 6,000 employees to “find God” and get married within 2 months if they’re living with a partner, or lose their jobs, according to AOL News. Vasily Boiko also announced that women who’ve had abortions can’t work for his company because “we don’t want to work with killers.”

    Boiko’s actions apparently are a reaction to this summer’s heat waves and smog which have caused deaths in Moscow and other places. Boiko called the extreme weather “punishment for the Russian people’s sins” and said, “I need to take extreme measures including looking at the way my employees treat God.”

    Boiko was jailed for fraud in 2007, and a former employee characterized his business practices as “certainly not Christian.”

    http://www.aolnews.com/world/a.....d/19596333

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: The USA isn’t the only place where wealthy conservative religious wackos are flaming hypocrites. The difference between us and Russia is we have better labor laws, at least for now, so long as we keep conservative religious wackos from taking over Congress and repealing them so wealthy hypocrites who steal can deprive lowly workers of their livelihoods if they don’t pray hard enough. And I take it this Russian screwball either hasn’t heard of global warming or thinks smog comes from not praying hard enough. We have people like that in our country, too, which is why we can’t afford to let conservatives run our government or make our laws. Why on earth would anyone vote for Republicans?

  5. 5

    Prezdint Jive-Talker’s plan of making certain Republicans take control of the House & Senate so he has someone to blame and improves his chances of re-election in 2012 is working!!!

    Tuesday, August 17, 2010

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 26% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-five percent (45%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -19.

    Republicans lead by twelve points on the Generic Congressional Ballot. That’s the largest advantage ever recorded for the GOP.

    This is simply amazing.
    You KLOWNS are gnashing your teeth and creating flat spots on your foreheads trying to turn the ship around while your Kommander is intentionally screwing things up so he can get re-elected in 2012!
    ObaMao saw how Clinton got re-elected.
    Republican Revolution in 1994.
    Clinton could then blame R’s for stuff…or roll over & do what they want (which is what Clinton did).

    If the Dems control the House & Senate after this election, ObaMao is Jimmy Carter II!!
    He knows it.
    No one to blame.
    We are headed into a double-dip recession folks. We have yet to see what ugly is.

    Relax KLOWNS.
    The fix is in.
    You’ve been duped.
    ObaMao thinks way more of himself and his legacy than you idiots.
    WAKE UP!

  6. 6

    News from North Korea

    Kim Jng Il, General Secretary Kim Jong Il received a floral basket from the delegation of the Japanese Society for the Study of the Juche Idea on a visit to the DPRK.

    How come Fox does not cover this?

  8. 8

    @6

    because Kim Jong Il is the the greatest golfer of allll tiiiimmmeee……….

  11. 11

    By the way,

    Don’t blame Me for the floods in Pakistan. You could be next!

    I am that I am.

  14. 14

    Mr Cynical, Pudge, Puddy, Troll @ 9

    I would have thought being omniscient would include reading comprehension. Too bad.

    PZ Myers says two things. Plainly.

    #1 He dismantles Kurzweil’s prediction that we’re on the cusp of simulating the brain using a “bottom up” strategy, whereby a functioning mind will magically emerge by modeling the mechanics of the brain.

    Myers argues that the brain is harder to simulate (in silico) than Ray Kurzweil imagines. Further, by stating

    We cannot derive the brain from the protein sequences underlying it…

    Myers explains that Kurzweil confuses the physical description of the brain (the genetics) with how it works (ontogeny). Meaning, even if we know every last detail of what makes a brain, we still don’t know how it all works.

    PZ Myers does not comment on other potential strategies. Nor does he predict if simulating the brain is even feasible.

    #2 Ray Kurzweil is a dingbat.

    Myers, per usual, is correct on both accounts.

    The only slight criticism I have of Myers’ articles is that he lumps Kurzweil in with computer scientists. If Kurzweil could program, he’d know that the description of a program is often insufficient for predicting how it’ll work. It’s actually one of the core problems in the theory of computation. (And why seemingly modest software have hard to fix bugs.)

    The irony here is that Kurzweil’s prediction of a “singularity” and The Discovery Institute’s creationist’s criticism of evolution are both based on a misunderstanding of genetics.

  15. 15

    13. God spews:

    So you believe in the hill?

    I wish you luck.

    I am that I am

    Ooooooops. You just made a fatal error and exposed yourself as a fraud.
    Know what the error was??

  16. 16

    The error was use of the word “luck”.
    God would never say “good luck” because He doesn’t believe in Luck.

    You lose.

  18. 18

    @13

    no, I dont believe in a “hill”…its just a piece of geography…and one that is generally higher that all water levels barring a repeat of noah’s flood.

  19. 19

    Here is a crushing Poll result less than 3 months before election–

    Monday, August 16, 2010

    Republican candidates have jumped out to a record-setting 12-point lead over Democrats on the Generic Congressional Ballot for the week ending Sunday, August 15, 2010. This is the biggest lead the GOP has held in over a decade of Rasmussen Reports surveying. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely Voters would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate, while 36% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent. Support for Republicans is up two points from the previous week, while support for Democrats dropped three points.Republicans have led on the Generic Congressional Ballot since June of last year, and their lead hasn’t fallen below five points since the beginning of December. Three times this year, they’ve posted a 10-point lead. Prior to this survey, GOP support since June 2009 has ranged from 41% to 47%. Support for Democrats in the same period has run from 35% to 40%.
    Voters not affiliated with either party prefer the GOP candidate by a 52% to 21% margin.Fifty-four percent (54%) of white voters favor the Republican, but 77% of African-Americans prefer the Democrat.

    Despite the Jive-talkin’ Prezdints efforts to mock & ridicule the Tea Party..as well as the fringe lunatic lefts efforts at gasbagging…here is what you got. WORSE RESULTS!

    You are losing voters everywhere.
    The key is Unaffiliated Voters..a 31% point margin. And ObaMao carried the Unaffiliateds in 2008. Do you think the Tea Party has something to do with that? Y’all have tried to paint the Tea Party as a clandescent group of stealth Republicans. I have been to recent events where establishment Republicans stood up trying to claim the Tea Party and were told to sit down. You don’t get it, do you?
    You will find out soon enough.

  21. 21

    Another key Race where the Dems are losing steam–
    Tuesday, August 17, 2010

    The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters in Ohio shows Republican Rob Portman picking up 45% support, while his Democratic opponent, Lieutenant Governor Lee Fisher, earns the vote from 37%. Five percent (5%) prefer a different candidate, and 13% are undecided.

    In every survey conducted this year, Portman’s support has stayed in the very narrow range of 42% to 45% of the vote. For Fisher, this survey represents his lowest level of support since regular tracking of the race began in February. Prior to this latest poll, his support had ranged from 38% to 43%.

    Based on Rasmussen’s track record, you KLOWNS are grasping at straws trying to discredit and claim that your candidates like Fischer are going to win. You are lookin’ like a bunch of fools….out of touch with reality like Prezdint Jive-talker and now even the First Lady with her foolish & arrogant Spain trip.
    She was very popular…until she did that.
    I think her popularity is still high because people feel sorry for her being married to a nutcase.

  22. 22

    I wonder if Barry ObaMao and his family will ride in the Iran Parade when they display all their new weapons?
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2.....pons-week/

    It would be just like Barry to honor Iran with his presence. His policy of pandering to these people is foolish. It isn’t working. They are laughing at him and us.

    Can you see Barry, Michelle & the kids sitting atop an Iranian Missle in the parade??

  23. 23

    Funny…

    still no mention of queen christine’s latest round if lieing from the HA lefty robots…

    silence is golden…HAHAHHHAHAHHA

  24. 24

    Troll, Mr Cynical, Pudge, Puddy @ 17

    Two small, but crucial, corrections.

    We’re humanists. Corporations are not people. Human rights and freedoms trump those of corporations.

    We’re reasonable. No sane person can argue that money is speech.

  25. 25

    MikeBoyScout @ 4

    Musical flash mob protests ARE the way of the future.

    I think you’re right. Abby Hoffman would be proud.

    This action works so well because it’s timely, clever (has a hook), well executed, well documented, and well publicized.

    The chemistry or magic of having a video go viral is no small feat. I love that they’re using our newest mediums so successfully.

    BTW, if you love activism, marching bands, and street performances, do not miss HONK! Fest next time it swings back through Seattle. This year’s was so mind blowingly awesome, I still smile every time I think about it.

  26. 26

    The people in that video are upset that Target doesn’t hold their exact same political views. They want Target, all all other companies and people to conform to their views, and they will protest and boycott until everyone conforms to their way of thinking.

    Am I not correct?

  28. 28

    @16 You missed an even bigger one, dummy! God doesn’t talk in 21st-century American slang. He talks in King James English.

  29. 29

    @17 “Another group of liberals who demand that everyone think exactly like they do.”

    That’s what you guys do, so why shouldn’t we?

  30. 30

    Troll, Mr Cynical, Pudge, Puddy @ 26

    So. Let me see if I understand you.

    You believe an anti-democratic corporation has the right to freedom of speech, whereas the lawful citizens of the United States of American don’t?

    Here, I’ll sum it up for you:

    D criticizes C criticizes B criticizes A.

    And now E (which is you) comes along and criticizes D for criticizing C.

    You crack me up.

  31. 31

    @17 continued … We don’t demand that you think like us. You made that up. This is a free country and you can be an idiot if you want to. We don’t care if you add 2 plus 2 and come up with 3, 5, 13, or 2,547. You can fuck up math if you want to. All we’re saying is we don’t want you fucking up the country or the world, so we won’t let you run the country or the world. We don’t care what you fools do to your personal finances or your personal relationships.

  32. 32

    @18 I seem to do okay by praying to trees, grass, and butterflies. The Great Mother Rabbit Spirit is everywhere. She is what she is.

  33. 33

    RR @ 31

    I reserve the right to mock any and all fruit cakes that insist 2 + 2 = 5, bases policy on 5, and shouts down anyone who questions that the answer is 5.

  35. 35

    I heart Jason Osgood.

    Sweetie, you’re way too smart to waste your time arguing with trolls. I’ve been reading the internet for well over 15 years and no one has ever succeeded in changing the mind or viewpoint of a troll in that entire time. Ever. It simply can’t be done.

    Good to see you again. You really class up the joint.

  36. 36

    “She was very popular…until she did that.
    I think her popularity is still high”

    Psycho-KLOWN Alert!

    heh-

  37. 37

    I’m amused.

    Mr Cynical places great faith in the predictive powers of polling (surveys).

    But yet dismisses the predictive power of science.

    Climate Change

    Climate models, our experience, and some basic logic, all indicate that humans are warming up the planet by burning fossil fuels and replacing trees with pavement. But because these models have a margin of error, Mr Cynical dismisses them. Because he believes any uncertainty disproves the thesis.

    Evolution

    Experiments, observations, models, and theory all indicate that organisms evolve by natural selection. But because these models cannot yet fully explain the origin of life, how self-replication emerges from chemistry, Mr Cynical dismisses the whole science of biology. Because he believes any uncertainty disproves the thesis.

    Economics

    Every day experience, observations, reason, and socioeconomic models show that the rich get richer. Not a value statement. It’s just math. And without progressive redistribution of wealth, the accumulation of wealth goes unchecked. But because economists cannot yet model all human behavior, Mr Cynical dismisses the whole of it, believing that wealth is wholly merit based, having nothing to with fortune or opportunity.

    Polling

    I’m not saying polls are right, wrong. They have their uses.

    I am saying is that they have biases and uncertainty. How you ask the question and who you ask cannot be separated from the human judgement conducting the polls. And being statistics, human judgment is also required for the interpretation.

    —

    On one hand, we have peer reviewed science with very little uncertainty, which Mr Cynical dismisses out right.

    And on the other hand, we have a barely formalized version of Family Feud, in Mr Cynical invests his full faith and devotion.

    Huh.

    Right wing trog prefers the fiction of a game show over reality.

    Said like that, I guess it finally makes sense.

  38. 38

    “Mr Cynical invests his full faith and devotion”

    heh- Only when the polls give him hope. You might recall that after the 2008 election Klynical waited only a couple of weeks before he was calling for a revolution. heh- He’s such a sore loser. It was only when the Rasmussen polls started giving him hope that he started posting them and briefly canned the revolution crap. That Klyincal’s present psycho-orgasmic state manifested itself with the arrival of astro-turf teabagging was no coincidence. With teabagging, he discovered that he could combine tri-cornered hats, misspelled signs, racism, bigotry and Rasmussen. The sucker’s been a damned giddy Psycho-KLOWN ever since!

  39. 39

    MainStreet.com has some interesting reminders of the real “entitlement class”, who believe that they are entitled to payments even after they are fired from their jobs for poor performance or breaking the rules, and want to receive lots of money for sitting on their butts.

    A list of some of the worst ruffians:

    Mark Hurd, head of HP, recently forced out for filing false expense reports to cover his attempts at an affair with a contractor. He managed to drive stock values up, but used an easy trick to do so – he outsourced most of the work, creating a brain drain of tremendous proportions as the best and brightest of what was once a valuable high-tech company all fled the company. So for gutting the company, inviting a harrassment claim, and falsifying expense reports, he gets $50 million bucks.

    Tony Hayward, B.P., recently announced he would be resigning this year and is expected to receive a severance package of $18 million. Not bad for totally screwing up the Gulf Coast, fumbling the containment efforts, and crying about how he wanted his “life back”.

    Ken Lewis, recently of Bank of America. After gobbling up Merrill Lynch without disclosing the true nature of the pending liabilities to stockholders, he gets $72 million in severence, PLUS a $53 million pension.

    Carley Fiorina, Mark Hurd’s predecessor at Hewitt Packard, drove down the stock prices with her poorly timed acquisition of a computer manufacturing company and was forced out in 2005. She gets $21 million cash, plus $20 million in stock options, assets which she can use to campaign for the Senate in California in 2010 proclaiming her “business experience and acumen”.

    Harry Stonecipher, Boeing. This guy nees a category all his own. He drove McDonald Douglas close to collapse by financial strategies designed to increase stock value but put off new airplane models and R&D until he was cut out of the market. He then managed to buy Boeing with Boeing’s own money, turning a one-year Presidency he negotiated into ten years of effectively controlling the company. In the end Boeing managers were forced out and Stoneciphers’ minions from MD were put in their place, mostly finance types and “yes-men” who hadn’t successfully put a new commercial aircraft into service in their entire careers. He then laid off tens of thousands of experienced aircraft builders, outsourced almost all parts production, scrapped the tooling, and implemented a process to build the 787 which involved almost all work being done by vendors, with only major sections being “snapped together” like an Ikea table and a Boeing nameplate slapped on. He managed to get pushed out in 2005 after having an affair with a female subordinate, but still got $11 million in severence plus $681K per year pension. Not bad for a guy who regularly complained that machinists with 25 years of experience building airplanes were greedy for making $45 per hour (including benefits).

    Hank McKinnell of Pfizer, who was CEO for five years of declining stock values and was pushed out in 2006, only to receive one of the largest severence packages in history – $122 million severence, plus another $78 million in other benefits.

    Martin Sullivan of AIG, who after receiving a taxpapayer funded bailout because AIG was “too big to fail”, was pushed out in 2008. He received a $15 million severence package plus $28 million in other benefits.

    So when you hear wingnuts complete their diatrabe against the
    “entitlement culture”, or how the unemployed don’t deserve to receive benefits they already paid for, or against union members making too much money, or government workers receiving pensions, or how “private industry” always does things cheaper and more effectively, or how “risk takers” deserve their rewards, remember these guys.

    In wingnut parlance, workers always have to get less money in order to be “competative”. But the guys in the top desearve ever-increasing magnitudes of money, in order for the company to be “competative” in securing their “talent” – regardless of their performance.

  40. 40

    I forgot to add that under the 787 program established by Stonecipher and his MD managers, Boeing now has almost three years of delay in delivering the 787 program.

    Recent news says that even though Boeing has five 787’s in some form of flight-test status, only two have been flying, and they are being grounded for yet another check of the quality of the work done by Alenia on the horizontal stabilizers.

    Boeing Machinists in Everett have been working for the past four years trying to correct multiple problems caused by improper workmanship by Alenia and Vought. But for their efforts, Boeing has tried to blame all the aircraft delays on the Machinists themselves, and praised Vought workers and announced the opening of a second 787 assembly line there.

    At least one airline has announced that it would not accept deliveries of 787’s from the Charleston plant.

  41. 41

    Since Goldy went back to Philly…here are the results of his efforts:

    Tuesday, August 17, 2010

    The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Voters in Pennsylvania shows Republican Pat Toomey picking up 46% support, while his Democratic opponent Joe Sestak earns the vote from 37%. Five percent (5%) prefer a different candidate, and 12% are undecided.

    In every survey conducted this year, Toomey’s support has stayed in the range of 42% to 47% of the vote. Aside from a brief surge in support following his mid-May primary victory over incumbent Senator Arlen Specter, Sestak’s support has fallen in a narrow 36% to 40% range since tracking began in February.

    Wow..keep up the bad work Goldy!
    Get back to Philly and start ranting on the street corners…do something!

  42. 42

    For you pacificist KLOWNS in your overpriced Seattle digs–
    The REAL world is facing some very difficult decisions TODAY!

    http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....lton-says/

    Will Israel strike Iran?
    How can it be avoided if Iran keeps thumbing their noses & laughing at ObaMao??

    ObaMao’s pacificist, conversational approach to diplomacy with terrorists like Iran’s head kook has not worked and made the world a very, very, very dangerous place this next year.
    If Israel strikes…ObaMao will be blamed.
    Where is ObaMao today?
    Raising money?
    Hiding somewhere so he doesn’t f*ck things up even worse??

    ObaMao is no leader.
    He’s just a Jive-talkin’ Marxist!

  43. 43

    How many times has ObaMao identified an issue as his “TOP PRIORITY”.
    Answer–
    More than a dozen.

    Wherever he finds an audience, he makes their issue his TOP PRIORITY.

    What a phony bastard.

  45. 45

    When is goldfarb going to “interview” the queen and ask her about those phony people she cited last week in her news conference.

    “now is not the time to be talking about tax increases”

    “our state has a budget surplus”

    and you dopes fell for it….again….LMFAO….

  46. 46

    Jason–
    Funny.
    Since the Progressive Movement is in the tank, your sense of humor will hopefully carry thru.
    BTW–ObaMao is a bastard.
    And he has “misspoken” so many times, a reasonable person would call him a “phony”

    Glue ’em together and you got a “Phony Bastard”
    I suppose you can try & debate the phony part….but he certainly is a bastard, isn’t he?!

  47. 47

    @45-
    Do you have a link to Gregoire’s Jive-talkin’??
    Would love to see it coming out of her mouth.
    Post please.

  51. 51

    Let them die and decrease the surplus population:

    The unemployed commit suicide at a rate two or three times the national average, researchers estimate. And in many cases, the longer the spell of unemployment, the higher the likelihood of suicide.

    Here: http://washingtonindependent.c.....oblessness

  52. 52

    Massive coral die-off seen in 93-degree waters

    Area off Indonesia is 7 degrees warmer than usual

    “…Of particular concern is the scale of the warmer ocean waters, which the NOAA website indicates has affected the entire Andaman Sea and beyond. Similar mass bleaching events in 2010 have now been recorded in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Malaysia and many parts of Indonesia…”

  54. 54

    The NRCC makes it move:

    “…Earlier this summer, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee announced it was reserving $49 million in TV airtime in 60 congressional districts across the country, 54 of which are currently held by Democrats. Now, Politico writes, the National Republican Congressional Committee is responding by reserving $22 million in TV airtime in 40 districts, 39 of which are Dem-held seats. Facing a 2-to-1 cash-on-hand disadvantage to its Dem counterpart, the NRCC is concentrating its finite resources on what it considers its top pick-up opportunities, rather than spreading it out among a larger universe of Dem-held districts. In fact, this is exactly what Rahm Emanuel’s DCCC did in 2006 — focus on a narrow number of districts and hope that outside groups and a wave help elsewhere.

    [snip]

    But this also underscores the GOP’s challenge in picking up the net 39 House seats it needs to take back the House in November: Because Republicans likely aren’t going to win in all of these 40 districts, they’re banking on outside groups — and, more importantly, a wave — to win control of the House. That said, Republicans tell us this $22 million is only the down payment for its fall advertising blitz. By the way, per Politico, here’s the full list of the 40 districts where the NRCC plans to run its TV ads: AL-2, AR-1, CA-11, CO-4, FL-2, FL-8, FL-24, GA-8, IL-10, IL-11, IN-2, IN-8, IN-9, K-3, KY-6, MD-1, MI-1, MI-7, MS-1, NH-1, NV-3, NM-2, NY-20, NY-24, ND-AL, OH-1, OH-15, OH-16, PA-3, PA-7, PA-11, SC-5, SD-AL, TN-8, TX-17, TX-23, VA-2, VA-5, WV-1, and WI-7.

    Here: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....s-its-move

  55. 55

    Ho Hum….

    http://www.slate.com/id/76886/

    “I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.”—Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2008

    “I want to share with you an interesting program—for two reasons, one, it’s interesting, and two, my wife thought of it—or has actually been involved with it; she didn’t think of it. But she thought of it for this speech.”—Washington D.C., Oct. 21, 2008, discussing PlayPumps International, which improves access to clean water in Africa

    “I didn’t grow up in the ocean—as a matter of fact—near the ocean—I grew up in the desert. Therefore, it was a pleasant contrast to see the ocean. And I particularly like it when I’m fishing.”—Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2008

    “I think it was in the Rose Garden where I issued this brilliant statement: If I had a magic wand —but the president doesn’t have a magic wand. You just can’t say, ‘low gas.’ “—Washington D.C., July 15, 2008

    v

    So there’s “thejesusownbutthole…mr cynical” and his hero, our fabuloso 43rd preznit…the dumb as a box of rocks liar, cheat, failed businessman, deserter from our armed forces in times of combat and scion of an extraordinary wealthy and well connected family…a family with a rich history of bigotry and shady financial dealings with well….Nazi’s. Real Ones. The World War Two kind.

    Golly gee, I guess “thejesusownbutthole…mr cynical” forgot…Mr. Obama got scholarships to get through university and law school worked hard to give back to his community served with distinction in his State Legislature and the US Senate.

    The Failing Frat Rat claims trading Sammy Sosa for Harold Baines…an idiotic move if he did do it…which he didn’t.

    I kinda miss the stupid…

    …but “thejesusownbutthole…mr cynical” sure goes a long wat towards makin’ up for it.

    Yesssireeebobbyboooo.

  57. 57

    @ 18. liar liar pants on fire

    It pleases me that you have faith in My hill.

    Still,

    If a flood comes,
    will you be able to leave your hill?
    If a the flood comes from Puget Sound, driven by an earthquake,
    will you be able to stand on you hill?

    Still, believe in Me,
    I gave you signs in the earth, signs that can be read by geologists.

    I am that I am.

  58. 58

    @14 Jason Osgood ,,

    and?

    so PZ, a man of God himself .. if only as a son …. thinks the brain is beyond replication by Man?

    Nahhhh …

    Challenges, they are Mine as well.

    I am that I am.

  59. 59

    @14 Jason Osgood

    With all due respect, you and PZ are ignorant .. not just of neurobiology but of genetics. God is a lot better biologist, as is Kurzweil, than either of you!

    Genetics has NO necessary relationship to proteins. Genes, moreover, do a lot more than “just” code for proteins.

    Yes, we suspect that all or most of the information to build a brain is encoded in the genome. For example, it is likely that if you placed a whole human genome into a chimp egg, the result would be .. pretty much .. a human.

    Most of the theoretical issues for doing this bizarre thing are already pretty well solved.

    Note that this comment does not imply (nor does Kurzweil say) that knowing how to build a brain will tell us how the brain works.

    As an example, suppose Einstein (or Bill Gates or Ed Lazowska) stumbled on a computer program based on 1.5 billion bytes would work. To make matters worse, the code is in duplex and both strands can code and sentences can overlap. Do you think the gurus could figger out what the stuff did much less how?

    The Godlike thing is that understanding how the bytes work is not necessary to build a brain!

    I assume that Kurzweil knows that making a brain can not be equated to just understanding all the proteins. First, the proteins appear to be only a small fraction of the genome, maybe 1%. Putting all the sequences that code for these proteins, “exons” into my chimp above would likely make a chimp, not a man.

    One thing we know for sure, FROM modern computer theory, is that the experiments PZ refers to … deleting or modifying one gene at a time … will not give accurate results of function for exactly the reason PZ cites (but misunderstand). When one gene is knocked out, the network that determines function of the rest of the genome changes. Unless we have perfect understanding of that network, we can not determine function!

    The breakthrough is coming from a mix of modern genetics and comp sci. It is a kind of analysis called graphic analysis combined with causal analysis. In essence this method, unlike the traditional experiments PZ refers to, is not dependent on correlation alone but actually measures causality. Actually Mendel and later Morgan used this method .. a method called epistatic analysis.

    A few years ago, Bob Horowitz received a Nobel prize for using this method to determine how cells die.

    Back to God’s comment, and Kurzweil’s, it IS quite possible that we WILL simulate a brain in the next few years.

    Where God comes in is that it is likely to take much LONGER to figure out how WE have built works.

    Of course, I am NOT speaking ex cathedra!

    But … the God who visits HA has never claimed to understand how His or Her creation works! THAT is where He or She would agree with PZ. Moreover, we may NEVER understand how the brain works … that may remain God’s challenge!

  62. 62

    SJ @ 59

    Umm. I already knew of my ignorance regarding genetics and neurobiology. Thanks?

    I’ve read your comment. Twice. Your point eludes me. Where you touch on Myer’s criticism, you seem to agree.

    Which I suppose is cause enough to argue.

    Before I’ll recap the salient points…

    Ray Kurzweil “singularity” is his belief that artificial intelligence will bypass human cognition. He also wants to do sci fi things like upload minds.

    I imagine this cyborg fetish is born of his desire to not die. The true death. Which I get. Having had a few brushes with death, I’m not eager to pass away. Like Kurzweil, I also believe I am immortal. A denial which I’ll maintain right up to the very end.

    Anyway, enough about me…

    #1 – Can we describe how the brain works?

    Answer: Not yet.

    #2 – Can we run a simulation of the brain?

    Answer: Already done. Limited utility. Continued efforts to make the simulations ever more high fidelity, while fun, won’t improve our understanding of the brain.

    #3 – Is that simulation of a brain a “mind”?

    Answer: As in sentient, self-aware, able to communicate, able to solve problems? No.

    #4 – Can a simulation be trained?

    Answer: Pretending that #3 is Yes, sure. A brain without experience or training is just goo. We call that process parenting. So now a simulation has to model the entire development of a human being. Who’s going to raise a simulation?

    #4 – Is the simulated “mind” the same as a human “mind”, eg pass the Turing Test?

    Answer: Yes. No.

    #5 – Does it matter?

    Answer: No.

    Kurzweil is a dingbat. In a transhumanist Mondo 2000 unapologetic sort of way. Even so, I respect his desire, his dedication, his goals.

    In fact, I believe the singularity is inevitable. Because we geeks won’t stop trying until we succeed.

    Alas, there is sadness. Any non human intelligence will be so weird, we won’t recognize it when it happens, if ever. Perhaps it’s already happened.

    Danny Hillis argues that computation emerges from systems of communication. Humans are only intelligent in context, so called social cognition. Now that we’re all massively interconnected, maybe a meta intelligence has emerged. But how will we know? We wouldn’t be aware of it in the same way a cell in my body is not aware of me (my sense of self, Jason Osgood).

    Resuming being an optimist…

    Every era has a guiding metaphor, where everyone invests their hopes and dreams. Souls, mind/brain duality, automatons, robots, clocks, golems, expert systems, symbol processors, neural networks, complex adaptive systems, agents, blah, blah, blah.

    Should we ever manage to fashion a human like intelligence, we’ll certainly need better metaphors.

    One exciting new metaphor is Jeff Hawkins’ prediction engine, as detailed in On Intelligence. Who knows how useful it’ll be? At least it’s a new idea. Versus Kurzweil’s rehash of decades old science fantasy, err, science fiction themes.

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