I’m listening to Hillary Clinton speak and I can’t quite figure out where she’s going. She started off very conciliatory, but she didn’t concede. And then she went into her usual schtick about winning the popular vote, and winning the swing states. So who knows.
Meanwhile everybody else seems to know Obama is the nominee but her (and her fans,) which makes Clinton’s speech all the more uncomfortable to watch. I feel like I’m watch a Pirandello play.
UPDATE [7:15PM]:
Well whaddaya know… Obama just claimed victory too!
4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!
Look, I’m obviously not a Democrat, but here’s some advice for the Dems: they’ve got to end this thing now and get on with the task of fighting McCain. Obama has the lead, and he’s going to stay there because he’s got the charisma to win. It’ time for Hillary to get out of the way.
Please, can you really say you expected a concession? I can’t imagine why. Perhaps you should hang up your political boots if you seriously thought that was going to happen. This will be worked out over the next week. And please, we Clinton supporters aren’t delusional, but we wont just fall in line for the sake of the party.
This is SO OVER, Clintonistas.
We need to get going on Grumpy McSame. Send him to the retirement he so richly (pun intended) deserves.
C’mon Howard…do your job!
Hillary bucking for a VP job……betcha!
Hillary, don’t give up. Demand a recount, two if you have to. It worked for me.
Tony – I suppose I do not understand what Clinton, or you, expect to change over the next week. The pledged delegate contest was basically over in April. Clinton’s last hope contest was over with the seating of the Florida and Michigan.
The gracious thing to do would have been to concede/suspend her campaign tonight. There is no possible scenario where she can legitimately claim a path to victory now. If Obama gets caught with the proverbial dead girl or live boy she is the nominee anyway. What can she possibly hope to gain by not being gracious now?
Obama is too smart a man to take Clinton as VP, especially after her dig comment that she would consider the VP IF she felt it would help the dems win the WH! So in the end she could say “looky everyone, if it wasn’t for me, Hilary Clinton, Obama would not have been able to win the WH”
Jim Webb apparently said something impolitic about women some decades ago, so the right would nag us constantly about that if he were VP.
I think Hillary and Obama should get in the ring and fight it out, a la Andy Kaufman.
Why’s everyone chomping at the bit? Seems like it would be pretty disrespectful for Hillary to concede before even hearing what South Dakota & Montana had to say. Can’t wait a couple more hours even? Isn’t New York time 3 hours AHEAD?
I can’t see anyway possible to Hillary to be offered or accept a VP position. BO would have to worry about her or Bill running around like a pair of loose cannons undermining his admin. With no ability to fire them either.
Hillary would win easily if Michigan and Florida counted as WHOLE people instead of half.
Think about that. The democrats used to only count slaves as 3/5 of a person. Now, they count blacks and every other minority as half a person.
Progressive? Hardly. EXTREMELY RE-gressive.
But. Typical of the party that fought so hard to maintain slavery!
cmiklich,
Apparently you can’t count. Obama would still be well ahead in delegates, even if Mi. and Fla. had been seated at 100%.
Evita Clinton once again shows why I will never vote for her. No class, just like the Republican she always has been. Maybe McCain will make her his running mate. After all, we know Republicans will do anything to get elected.
Hillary in not graciously conceeding this evening, shows where she and the democratic party is going.
Where is she going? 2012
She can’t get there as VP
She can’t get there by having her people singing cum by ah
And she won’t
So say hello to McCain in 2008, Hillary in 2012
Nindid, nothing is going to change over the next week, I don’t think that is what will happen and didn’t imply anything like that, although I disagree that the contest has been over since April. Over the coming week, Hillary will negotiate and leverage the 18 million of us who feel spurned and then “do what’s best for the party” as she said herself. Clinton was very gracious to Obama while staying short of the concession as the majority of those who voted her wanted and expected. I want to see Clinton as VP and I don’t think conceding tonight would be the best path to this.
He will defend America!
Engage!
cmiklich – Trolls must really hate themselves to be this ignorant in public.
Try some knowledge on for size…
Victory 2008! A celebration!
14 “So say hello to McCain in 2008, Hillary in 2012”
Rather dismal prospect, for her as much as for anyone else. After another four years of the neocons looting, raping and pillaging in their own backyard, there wouldn’t be much left to preside over.
All trolls please immediately liquidate your 401K and IRA.
Deeno and McGrampy need your $.
Congratulations Democrats…….You’ve just nominated John Kerry’s replacement on November 6th, 2008 (like Kerry replaced Al Gore before him). Excellent Choice.
Swing and a miss……..yet again……could it get any better?
He seems so normal in public……
http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/Obama_1.jpg
What’s up with this?
Earth to Rick, Earth to Rick……
(crickets)
We have negative contact with Spaceman Rick. A moment of silence for our lost spaceman.
That the best you’ve got, Rick? Didn’t you ever yawn?
Good on ya lads. It’s a binary decision come November and you’ve just picked the losing horse again.
In McCain vs. Richardson, I probably would have picked Richardson. But no, you dolts picked the ultra-liberal, woefully inexperienced, junior senator from Chicago.
Wright, Rezko, Pflueger, and Ayers aren’t guilt-by-association, but rather a stunning indictment of his extremely poor judgement. His weekly gaffes make George Bush look intelligent by comparison. Complaints that electing McCain will be the third term of George Bush seem to fall away when compared to possibility of the second term of Jimmy Carter.
Hillary could have made it a close race… Obama will be the second coming of George McGovern.
Experts tonight say a Democratic Party Dream ticket is still a longshot possibility….
While the American voting electorate will reject the idea of such a duo of course, DNC party chairman Howard Dean says that the Democratic party message cannot be advanced without either voice being respected and heard.
Wright, Rezko, Pflueger, and Ayers aren’t guilt-by-association
Indeed!
That was a great speech by Obama. I was afraid he was going to be too nice, but his counters to McCain were great!
We can agree then that the race is over. But that means we need to shift from gaming the system for an individual candidate’s benefit and start thinking about what is best to beat McCain. Perhaps Clinton as VP is the best way to go. But by not conceding she has weakened Obama in some degree and continued to threaten to cause disunity if she does not get what she wants. It is not about individuals, it is about the party and about the future.
Definitely, I disagree, however, that she weakened him tonight and no one believes that she will cause disunity. It would kill her political future and make her a pariah, and even if you’re an Obama supporter, you know that is the last thing Clinton would want. Everyone within her campaign has admitted this will be over by next week, let her end it on her terms and she will become Obama’s number one fan by next week bringing with her the 18 million of us who volunteered and donated to the cause that she represented.
Tony @ 15:
“Hillary will negotiate and leverage the 18 million of us who feel spurned.”
How the fuck do you feel “spurned”? Man up, Tony. Losing isn’t spurned. It’s life. Hillary ran a poor campaign. She had a huge advantage and she blew it. Obama ran a brilliant campaign. He has judgment, he is a leader. I have lost all respect for Hillary. Her ego and ambition seem to be all that matter to her. At the same time, the policy differences between Hillary and Obama are too thin to articulate. Any Hillaryite who claims that he or she can’t vote for Obama because of policy differences is, simply, a liar. Are you a liar, Tony?
Hillary’s speech was about her, Obama was about change.
Please, it wasn’t losing, it was jerks like you who attack on all fronts at all times. So much for party unity to people like you? You obviously recognized a difference between Obama and Hillary on a personal level, I see the same thing and prefer one, in the same way you prefer the other. Also, you can take your veiled attempts at my being a racist and shove them.
When the idiot trolls tell us how Obama will lose – then we know we picked the right candidate. Obama will hit back hard on the war and the economy. Any Clinton supporter that does not switch to Obama on the basis of the issues alone – isn’t thinking or is really a republican. Obama will pull in more independents than anyone else – and trying to tar Obama with a one-time Catholic preacher or hi former minister has run the course – they aren’t in the campaign – period. Only very pathetically stupid people buy that argument (I mean the trolls on here).
Tony, baby: “you can take your veiled attempts at my being a racist and shove them.” And, you also called me a jerk. How the hell you detect “veiled attempts” in my post at suggesting you are a racist is beyond me. You are projecting. At a certain point in time, tone becomes substance. Hillary’s tone during the last two months became substance–she is shrill and negative. This nation doesn’t need a leader who rips apart her own party. How can this nation move forward with a president who fails to recognize that she’s lost the support of her own party, let alone that of the Republicans and independents out there? She lacks graciousness. Obama has won. How can she fail to acknowledge the obvious? Republicans and Hillary live in a world where reality doesn’t count.
“Political campaigns can never afford the luxury of feeling superior to anyone. Obama may have won the nomination but it will mean nothing if he does not win the General Election in November, and to do that he needs the votes and even the enthusiastic support of Hillary and her supporters. Clinton’s supporters cannot be insulted, bullied, or guilted into enthusiastic support in the fall. Like any other key voting bloc, Obama and his supporters can only gain these votes by understanding Clinton’s supporters’ real concerns, making a connection with them and making a compelling case for their support.”
Here’s link to the article http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....spect.html” rel=”nofollow”
Might do you some good leftist
Didn’t realize we needed Republicans’ support, and I don’t call 18 million votes and a slim delegate majority win by Obama, primarily gained from superdelegates “losing the support of her own party”. I’m ready to come around to Obama but the bullying nature of his supporters will definitely make it hard to be enthusiastic about it.
Wow, the trolls are out in force tonight. Something must have happened that’s got them spooked.
Wow, seems ad hominem is it from you buddy, might want to pack it in.
Tony,
Hillary ran a very poor campaign. Had she run a better campaign, her California victory would have ended the race for the nomination. She did not, however, plan for the long run. Her inability to win this race speaks to her lack of judgment and leadership. I did not start out as an Obama supporter. I liked Richardson and Edwards, but after hearing Obama’s speech following his Iowa victory, I went his way. This nation wants change. That’s not just a word. There is Bush fatigue, and there is Clinton fatigue. We are at a national nadir. Something different needs to happen. Could Obama be a false tonic? Sure, but I’m willing to roll the dice. I know that a Hillary presidency would mean even more partisan divisiveness than we have experienced the last seven years. That ain’t good, that’s one thing I know.
Did you bother to listen to Obama’s speech? It was inclusive. with phrases like “We are not republicans, or democrats, or independents, we are American!” I”d like to see the Republicans try that, with a straight face.
When I read neo-con predictions of Obama’a future, I remember how well their past predictions came true, and just chuckle, chuckle, chuckle at those chuckleheads.
Remember how they predicted Iraq would pay for the invasion with oil revenue’s? Remember Mission Accomplished?
The real dead enders are the Republicans. Welcome to being a permanent minority in government at every level. You guys earned it.
@39
WTF???
If you’re a Dem, then you’re not a troll.
Tony = Republican Troll
McCain’s money being wasted.
Expect more “Tony’s” to come.
Where is Justin, anyway?
42
The Republicans are going the way of the Whigs. The only reason they don’t support assisted suicide is that they don’t want the plug pulled on them.
In reading this thread I detect that some of us can’t figure out who is left and who, well, is just on the wrong side politically and mentally.
For those that are confused, I propose the following system. If you are a Dem you end your moniker with a “D”. If you are too stupid to understand this system, you put an “R” next to your name.
See my example above.
MLF @ 47
I am proud leftist “D”
Unashamedly, unabashedly, undeniably a Democrat. Anyone want to take issue with that?
Reading this is interesting.
1. Obama is the presumed nominee (I’m saying presumed because the final decision will be at the convention)
2. Obama supporters are happy
3. Hillary supporters (also D’s) are not.
So far so good.
4. Now to show the inclusiveness of Obama supporters, Hillary supporters are called Trolls, Republicans, etc. What about discussion, discourse and …support for the other opinion, yet same party ?
Now Hillary as VP…hmm that could be interesting. If people were concerned or up in arms about the presumed influence or dealings of VP Cheney in the Bush Whitehouse…can you imaging Hillary in the Obama Whitehouse ? And on top of this…Bill hitting on Michelle…
I’m just saying (to use one of G’s favorite terms)…this could be interesting to watch.
I agree that Clinton supporters cannot be bullied or insulted. Yet, they also need to recognize reality – and reality is that Obama has won the only race that counts – delegates. That is how the rules are and making false excuses (the popular vote: IF we don’t count the caucus states AND count all the votes in Michigan where Obama was not even on the ballot) really doesn’t help to deal with reality.
This was a tough, hard fought campaign. Clinton came in with all the advantages – but she had a poor strategy and could not recover from her early losses and did not campaign throughout the whole country. Probably her biggest fault – and the reason I stopped supporting her during the Iowa caucus – was that she could not admit that the Iraq war vote was a mistake. I have had enough of Presidents who cannot admit a mistake – like Bush.
Now the choice comes down to McCain or Obama – and anyone watching McCain’s pathetic speech yesterday will understand that McCain is Bush III – he backtracks on every so-called principle he has including torture, illegal spying, telecom immunity and veterans rights. His entire campaign is run by and for lobbyists. He has vowed to stack the supreme court further, his health care plan is not a plan and he will continue the endless war in Iraq.
Any Clinton supporter who wants to sit out the general election or vote for McCain is supporting these positions. The differences between Clinton and Obama were never very great on policies and any Clinton supporter who won’t vote for Obama is not concerned about policies or is too bitter or childish to care. Yes – it is tough when your candidate of choice loses – but politics is more than just wanting your horse to win the race – it is about what is best for our country.
I would have voted for Clinton if she had won – I would not have been happy – but I would have voted and thrown my support in for beating McCain. That is because I am democrat and this is not a cult of personality.
It is in Obama’s interest to portray HRC as big as possible, to show that his victory was real and over a formidable opponent.
All this talk of HRC supporters voting for McNoBrain must be residuals of Limbaugh’s operation chaos.
Hannah
Almost any VP can make the claim that he (or maybe she) was a major factor in the Presidential election.
President Clinton chose Al Gore to help him win, and might have lost with another VP. Walter Mondale actually helped President Carter win (although his own Presidential campaign was, shall we say, less than inspired).
Kennedy needed Johnson, and so on. Certainly one of the reasons people were willing to vote for President Bush is that they saw VP Cheney as someone that was able to understand the issues. (Unfortunately, while he understood them, his priorities were to make them pay for his friends.)
My dislike of Senator Clinton has grown considerably through this campaign, and I wasn’t her biggest fan to begin with. The idea of her as VP is distasteful at best.
But… her stated policies are acceptable, and many Democrats feel that she would be an asset. While we can debate the exact number, there is no question that millions of Democrats support her.
Certainly, she would be a very active VP, and could cause some problems, but Senator Obama is strong enough to deal with her.
This may be the best way to get her to fully support the ticket, instead of hanging back hoping for a run in 2012. There are people I would prefer as VP, but Senator Obama will make the choice, and I’ll support him on that.