I was planning to write a lengthy post in preparation for today’s start of the election contest trial in Chelan County Superior Court. But I thought this quote from the Republican’s pre-trial brief pretty much sums everything up:
Petitioners will ask the Court at the conclusion of the case to set aside the issuance of the certification of election to Gregoire, on the ground that, after deduction of illegal votes from both candidates, the evidence shows that Rossi received more legal votes than Gregoire, and on the alternative ground that as a consequence of the errors, neglect omissions and misconduct of election officials, the true outcome of the general election for the office of Governor cannot be known.
That’s the case in a nutshell. Rossi will attempt to prove that Gregoire received at least 130 illegal votes more than he did. And barring that, we’re back to the “total mess” theory. The twists are that Rossi’s attorneys will argue that all the mishandled provisional ballots (in King and Pierce) and all the voter credit discrepancies in King, amount to illegal votes. Furthermore, they are indeed going to argue that King fraudulently certified the election.
The GOP brief is impressive looking, as these things tend to be, but I expect the Democrat’s arguments to be just as persuasive. Keep in mind that the Republicans will be presenting their evidence first, so nobody should get too high or too low based on what comes out of the trial over the next few days. TVW will be providing gavel to gavel coverage, and I plan to watch as much of the tedious proceedings as I can. I’m also hoping to get periodic reports from a couple flies on the wall, and I’ll share interesting tidbits (assuming there are any) as soon as they come in.
Man, I can’t wait for this damned thing to be over so that I can spend my time writing about important things.
I wholeheartedly agree. We need to move on from this. Let Gregoire finish her term.
Petitioners will ask the Court at the conclusion of the case to set aside the issuance of the certification of election to Gregoire, on the ground that, after deduction of illegal votes from both candidates, the evidence shows that Rossi received more legal votes than Gregoire
Well now. The republicans have finally admitted that the much higher standard applies rather than believing all they had to show was that the “margin of victory was less than the illegal votes cast in the state.”
I can’t wait to be able to address Ms. Gregoire as:
“The former Illegitimate Governor of the State of Washington”.
Surprises in this trial. Not many….well one pretty big one.
Goldy’s right, most of it will be pretty boring. But there will be some interesting lawyer clashes….and of course the “surprise”.
But the PI didn’t even mention it; you must not really be a leftie if you cover news not deemed fit to print (at least by the lowly pi)
As we head into the trial phase of this little drama that’s held us transfixed for so long I’d like to thank the following commenters for holding up my spirits (it hasn’t been easy at times):
1) Goldy for great writing, humor, outrage, optimism, activism, giving it back to the righties and for providing this forum. You have endured the worst attentions by some on the right. I don’t how you keep on, but I thank you dearly for doing so.
2) Don/Alan/etc. – for excellent commentary and your breadth of experience in state government and the law. Your rapier wit has had me rolling on the floor. You are a class act Sir and I want to buy you and Goldy cold ones at the Montlake Ale House one Tuesday.
3) Erik – for braving the shark-infested waters at (u)SP and living to tell the tale. For pithy and principled commentary as well.
4) Scottd – I’ll never forget the time you pointed out the shortcomings in one of Sharkansky’s numerous “smoking guns”. He agreed with you and then called you a shill for KC Elections – a mark of honor.
5) Torridjoe – for your rigorous attention to detail and your volunteer efforts in researching this case. The attacks on you from the right testify to your effectiveness.
6) Carla – for the early debunking of the (u)SP military ballot claims and your graceful commentary. Your stubborn, anti-authoritarian streak is an inspriration.
7) dj – for first class statistical analysis. You give it back to the righties really good as well.
8) jpgee – for slugging it out in the trenches with the righties and giving Mr. C. a hard time, inspiring some of his more colorful fantasies.
9) jcricket – for inspired invective against all things specious and hypocritical.
And to all the others who have dug in and helped us fight the good fight against the withering, viturperative attacks from the right.
A hat tip to Richard Pope is due who though a fierce Republican partisan has demonstrated realism and equanimity as this drama has played out – with occasional lapses of course.
I look over this list of fine people and admire the passion and dedication. We are anything but the laughable if they weren’t so vicious caricatures that are thrown at us from the right. We come from all walks of life. We are moderate people. We want value from our hard-earned tax dollars. We want government that works. Thank you all.
thanks for the nice comments, John. I appreciate the hat tip.
TJ – always. You da man!
Watching the trial: Foreman and Sharkansky – separated at birth?
This just sounds all too familiar, and i suspect we shall be reading a great deal more of it here in the comment threads over the next few weeks, as the level and degree of bitter rancor rises like acidic bile in the throats of those who perceive even their left arms to be dangerous:
“This emergence of “secular Left” as the Right’s preferred pejorative for both Democrats and liberals is remarkable, if only because it suggests that Republicans and conservatives appear to have absorbed themselves, willingly, into the narrow faction of the “religious Right.” After all, if everyone west of the political center is now the “secular Left,” then everyone right of center must be the “religious Right.”
“A bigger problem is that conservatives — er, the religious Right — are the undisputed arbiters of political language. Consider, for instance, the right-wing campaign to discredit the word “liberal.” The. U.S. was founded as a liberal republic, but nowadays, a “liberal” risks being stoned to death in the public square by admitting to “liberalism.” “Liberal” has become “the L-word,” like some four-letter vulgarity unutterable in front of the children.
Likewise, the great right-wing machine of semantic revision — with often unwitting and uncritical assistance from TV news — has turned a progressive tax on extreme inherited wealth into a “death tax” that — mythically — robs middle-class Americans of their mom-and-pop candy stores and family farms. Among other pejoratives and euphemisms of the American vernacular generated by G.O.P. semanticists, each as misleading as it is universal, are these: “Axis of Evil,” “Evil Empire,” “evildoers,” “clear skies,” “compassionate conservatism,” “culture of life,” “faith-based,” “flip-flopper,” “free speech zone,” “homosexual agenda,” “judicial activist,” “liberal bias,” “liberal media,” “ownership society,” “partial-birth abortion,” “pro-life,” “racial quotas,” “regime change,” “shock and awe,” “Social Security crisis,” “tort reform,” “war of choice,” “welfare queen,” and, of course, Swift Boat Veterans for “Truth.”
“Civil liberties,” a term that embraces such basic American prerogatives as privacy, consumer rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press and, yes, freedom of religion, are seen today as the purchased privileges of a “liberal elite.” This distortion is the linguistic legacy of the same American right wing that now cubbyholes its foes as the “secular Left,” and seems happy to gather at the river under the big (revival) tent of the religious Right.
“Secular Left.” Yeah, maybe it’s just a couple of words. But it’s coming from the people who today, in American politics, get to make up all the words, and then make everybody else repeat them endlessly, like “Hallelujah,” and “Praise the Lord.”
Reply to 5, democracy is a team effort, John, as your post so vividly (if unintentionally) points out. To keep what we have in this country (or used to have, before the neocons showed up), we each have to contribute our little bit for the good of all — a principle the neocons don’t understand, and the principle reason why their movement will fail in the end.
You see, if the neocons succeed in gaining the absolute power they crave, they will destroy each other fighting over the spoils.
Apparently, the opening statement by the Rs began with lots of fraud talk (even thought it is not part of their claim).
Formean claims “sinister” actions. Corruption. And upper level fraud.
I’ve never seen the Rs so desparate. These are easily shot down in any reasonable trial. Guess the Rs figured (accruately) their “felon” argument was going nowhere so they have to grasp for very very long straws….
Hint to the Rs reading this: tell your folks to save the millions of dollars to help Rossi lose again in 2008 (or 2006 if he breaks his pledge and runs for senator)….better odds on the money being spent that way.
@ 5
Noble but lame. tell it to the screamer Dr Dean, moveon and Soros who seem to have all the influence on where your party is headed. Your image is flawed and your message is evil. Open Society ?? Open borders, World Court, Int’l Govn’t? ACLU defending NAMBLA?
You should be more concerned about all these groups that hijacked your party.
Thomas Trainwinder @ 10
. . . and I like the GOP claim that KC promotes a “culture of election problems.” What and idiotic thing to claim!
Patrick/don/alan/sux, you are losing is pal. every other post, often two or three in a row. and what was that I read in another thread, kiss the ground crissy walks on? whoa dude!!! you are clinical or it’s time for the hospice. The PVS is now obvious.
I’m about to call the Govs office and get the monthly salary of the new enviro policy advisor, Michele Gregoire and the salary of the minister of veteran affairs office, Mike Gregoire.
Talk about ETHICS violations. If the Dems spent as much time checking WA State Dem officials they wouldn’t dare attack Tom Delay.
He did talk about felons toward the end…but of course only in King County. This argument is so weak it harldy made sense when he went through the single felon voter he highlighted. This case should go really quickly…and off to the state supreme court.
Dale Foreman’s opening was showboating for the camera and the true-believers at home. Would the opening be the same if Bridges has disallowed the camera?
What is Bridges doing during this 10 minute break? He could be taking a restroom break or dressing down the showboaters!
There’s a liveblogging diary at Kos for the trial–here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/23/121246/701
Folks, don’t overlook the day-old thread! There’s some pithy new postings on “All the News That Fits” thread this morning! (I’m not referring to my own, but I posted there this morning too.)
We need more Republicans like Richard Pope, who actually thinks for himself instead of buying whatever lame propaganda comes along, and challenges our own beliefs where challenge is most needed and beneficial. There was a time when the Grand Old Party was indeed a grand party (even if wrong), and if there is ever to be a G.O.P. again, it will take people like Richard to make it happen.
Comment on 8, you nailed it buddy. If you want to lie successfully, first you have to control the language, then you control the debate.
charred brain cells @ 13
Okay, you don’t have to kiss the ground Gregoire walks on. You can kiss my ass instead.
Hamilton is good. What a contrast with Foreman!
Who is that righty (the man) behind Hamilton? I know the face, can’t remember the name.
Goldy,
Wonder why lefties get a reputation for low morals? Look at the language you all use? (yeah and i know the gop has its share of cursing sailors)
By the way, Chardonnay, don’t you think a governor has the right to fill policy posts in his/her office with anyone he/she wants to? Can you point me to a law that makes it illegal for a governor to fill discretionary appointments with family members? Should having “Gregoire” as their last names disqualify them from consideration?
It seems to me the relevant consideration here is whether they’re doing the work the taxpayers are paying them for, and if their work output is competent and beneficial to the citizens of the state. If so, there’s no issue. If not — if they’re just decorating an empty office with their nameplates and doing nothing to earn their salaries or doing a bad job of it — then the taxpayers are getting ripped off and it’s nothing but nepotism.
So which is it? Why don’t you do some research on the issue and get back to us when you have some relevant facts.
Patrick @ 18
“We need more Republicans like Richard Pope, who actually thinks for himself instead of buying whatever lame propaganda comes along, and challenges our own beliefs where challenge is most needed and beneficial.”
Here, here! I second that. One of the genuine pleasures of the comment threads has been discussing (and even sparring with) Richard Pope.
If he appears on my ballot, I might just vote for him—if only to get a sensible, thoughtful Republican in office.
Reply to 22, given a choice between someone who swears, and someone who starts unnecessary wars, kidnaps and tortures people, steals from widows and orphans, uses tax money to finance their political campaigns and election challenges, etc. ad naus., you can take your Republican moral values and fuck yourself with them.
Hah! The righties behind Hamilton can’t believe that a felon would ever vote for Rossi! The look on their faces was priceless.
righton @ 22
“Wonder why lefties get a reputation for low morals? Look at the language you all use? (yeah and i know the gop has its share of cursing sailors)”
Fuck off, jackass. We like to make self-rightous assholes like you squirm. Think of it as a left-wing version of “shock and awe.” The big difference: we are not killing innocent people in the process.
wrong-o- @ 22
Odd, wasn’t it the Vice President who got caught using the “f-bomb”? Oh, and didn’t ‘ole dubba get nailed calling folks names as well?
So whos the right to say what consitiutes proper morals? How about “lead by example”?
On the contrary, Mr. Goldstein, your comments on the disputed election have been cogent and helpful. It’s when you turn to “the important things” that you seem to go off the cliff.
John@5:
“We are moderate people. ”
Bwaaaa haaaa haaaaa.
And they say liberals don’t have a sense of humor!
Patrick@9,
“we each have to contribute our little bit for the good of all”
Now if you actually beleived that, then you would be all for TOLLS on the Alaskan Way replacement, just like they did with the new Narrows bridge. But instead, like all liberals, you want everyone else to pay for your viaduct so the liberals that live in West Seattle can get hom 10 minutes earlier.
Pat @ 23
Chard, do research? Surely you jest! That would take a level of knowledge and understanding she couldn’t muster from her entire clan. I can see it now…everyonr gathered around the monitor staring at a blank Google page, “Gee Ma, where do ya think we should start?”
dj–@27
Unlike you to get so ANGRY over mere words.
Oh well…we all handle pressure differently.
I was really wanting to make a bet with you on your original claims dj. As expected, you reconfigured things so you had some wiggle room that a series of things could happen.
I wanted to be on your original prognostication that the Judge would not consider the R’s proportional analysis approach because the R’s “cherry-picked” according to you.
Wisely, you have backed off that assertion. Illegitimate votes require some consequence and relief. Where they will be enough to overturn the 129 vote advantage remains to be seen. I’ve always said, the Judge will identify ILLEGAL VOTES and apply some fairly simple, straightforward proportional analysis formula…apply it to the proven ILLEGITIMATE votes and then have someone do the math. The answer IS what IT IS.
Then he will go on to the next issue…and the next issue.
When Judge Bridges is done with each issue, he will compile ALL the adjustments based on his rulings.
He will calculate a final total for Rossi and for Gregoire after adjusting for relief from proven ILLEGITIMATE ballots.
It ain’t no more complicated than that.
pbj @ 31
“Now if you actually beleived that, then you would be all for TOLLS on the Alaskan Way replacement, just like they did with the new Narrows bridge. But instead, like all liberals, you want everyone else to pay for your viaduct so the liberals that live in West Seattle can get hom 10 minutes earlier.”
I AM for tolls on the AWV and I DID post this on HA.
Reply to 32, “Chard, do research? Surely you jest!” Yes, I most surely was jesting, but we have to do SOMETHING for levity around here! :D
Mr. Cynical @ 33
“Unlike you to get so ANGRY over mere words.”
Naaa. . . no anger there. It was said with a smile. The same thing happens in some of your posts. Some people see it as anger, but some of us realize you are being playful and jerking chains.
Re: “the bet”. Sorry I couldn’t accept your original proposition. I think the non-representativeness issue was a much more serious problem before the Democrats released their list of invalid votes. I agree with you that the Judge will feel compelled to do something, perhaps at risk of seeking a remedy with little scientific validity.
pbj @ 30
Funny especially coming from Harry/Joseph.
pbj @ 31
The AWV if it is to be built as promoted, it should definitely be tolled. I don’t support the tunnel. I think we can do without it. But the seawall has to be fixed and the damn thing has to be torn down before it falls down in the next shaker.
Now how moderate is that, fool?
dj@36–
I think you and I are pretty much on the same track now. It’s going to come down to how many of these illegal votes are clearly identified (they must withstand serious scrutiny) and what proportional analysis method the Judge is comfortable with. NOTE: I do believe the method chosen will be fairly simple like precindt voted.
Will that make up the 129 vote difference? Hard to tell for sure…perhaps not.
However, I don’t dismiss some of these other issues quite as quickly as you do dj. We’ll leave it at that for now.
PS–Aren’t these damn lawyers boring??? It’s hard to listen to.
Poor Judge Bridges…although I think he is very bright, competent and knows what is important and what is not.
dj–are you still comfortable with Bridges?
Oh and dj—thank God you are a LEFTIST PINHEAD with a sense of humor…although you are still a LEFTIST PINHEAD!
Actually dj..I was wrong.
You are not a LEFTIST PINHEAD.
You are a LEFTIST PENCIL-NECKED GEEK!
Mr. Cynical @ 38
“I think you and I are pretty much on the same track now. “
Yes. . . although I give the Democrats 90% chance of winning.
“PS–Aren’t these damn lawyers boring??? It’s hard to listen to.”
Especially this gawd-awful reading of depositions. Judge Bridges should call a halt to this and read the deposition himself.
“Poor Judge Bridges…although I think he is very bright, competent and knows what is important and what is not.
dj–are you still comfortable with Bridges?”
I am comfortable with Judge Bridges. (I take the stance that I should be comfortable with a Judge, a priori) In this case, I am impressed with the way he has run this case. It is in everyone’s interest that all sides are dealt with fairly, and Judge Bridges seems to do this.
“You are not a LEFTIST PINHEAD. You are a LEFTIST PENCIL-NECKED GEEK!”
That’s a low blow Cynical! You already know my stand on that particular scourge: Pencil-necked Geeks!
Ah well…what kind of world would this be without PENCIL-NECKED GEEKS to bitchslap around for sport….you excluded of course dj!
Bridges is going to systematically shape this case. It will be very important how he ultimately rules on this fraud issue….in light of the depositions by Way and Fell. I don’t think Bridges wants to eliminate some legitimate related issue based on one side saying it’s too late and you didn’t clearly spell out your case on this issue previously….but what the hell do I know!
Comment on 39 — OMG Mr. C came up with a NEW epithet!!! And just when I was convinced he had only one epithet (“pinheaded liberals”) in his entire verbal repertoire!
I wonder if Mrs. C wrote it for him? I’ll bet he made her do it by threatening to withheld her $5 weekly allowance.
thatPrick@42–
Mrs. C has free reign over the finances.
I work…something you know nothing about.
Patrick and friends
How can you be tolerant and inclusive when you curse at strangers. Aren’t you from the party respecting diversity?
I’m no Bush fan but if you wanna mix in Clinton’s extramarital daliances, bring it on.