I guess it is possible to be both green, and… um… green.
To reduce energy consumption, Costco is installing skylights and solar panels in its massive warehouse clubs. Six stores in California and Hawaii have the solar panels, and seven additional stores are to get them this year.
The installer of the Hawaii panels, California-based REC Solar, says the installations at Costco’s Kauai and Kona stores are Hawaii’s two largest solar arrays.
The panels cost about $745,000 per store, and Costco typically doesn’t make that money back for three to five years. But Sinegal said they’re a sign of the times: “We recognize, like all businesses, that we must continue to conserve and save the planet.”
They’ll make back their money in only three to five years? Solar cells last thirty years or longer, so with that kind of ROI you’d think this sort of investment would be a no brainer.
Oh wait… global warming isn’t real, and it’s obviously in both our economic and security interests to run our nation on imported oil, so what was I thinking?
Kudos to COSTCO!
Goldy blogged: “in both our economic and security interests to run our nation on imported oil”
Yes Goldy why are you not leading the charge to drill off the California & Florida coasts and ANWR in Alaska until we can better perfect alternative energy sources?
Oh…. that’s right democrats are for energy independence…
NOT!
That’s right I forgot democrats are pushing for biofuels mandate. How could I forget that.
Well have you seen your food bill lately? I performed another PuddyStudy…
This push for corn-based ethanol is driving up food prices. Since many foods today have the empty calorie based high fructose corn syrup additive cha-ching! Do liberals read food labels?
This push for corn-based ethanol is draining natural aquifers. The need to water the corn so it delivers the ears is forcing farmers to over water.
This push for corn-based ethanol is requiring more fertilizer to ensure the corn grows in poorer soils normally not used for corn production. Sounds like a job for Pelletizer.
This push for corn-based ethanol will exacerbate fertilizer runoff. This will create in many of the nation’s rivers fertilizer-based dead zones which will kill off fish or reduce their viability in those rivers.
I expect the thread police to whack these posts since I’m speaking about oil dependence/independence… Goldy’s last sentence.
I also expect Pelletizer to pollute the thread and get another pass…
You see whacked-out liberals, dull knifes, clueless idiots, and delusional joes, Puddy studied this http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00853.html
When I looked at the article I remembered reading the articles last year on the Ogallala Aquifer and the effect of the drop in the water table due to watering…
Do a Google PuddySearch on “corn based ethanol draining natural aquifers” whacked-out liberals, dull knifes, clueless idiots, and delusional joes and see for yourself why we need to drill for oil locally until we can efficiently create these bioproducts.
Again you see whacked-out liberals, dull knifes, clueless idiots, and delusional joes, Puddy studied this http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12 /18/AR2007121800853.html
When I looked at the article I remembered reading the articles last year on river pollution and Gulf of Mexico dead zones due to the use of petroleum based fertilizers to create the ethanol…
Do a Google PuddySearch on “corn based ethanol fertilizer polluting rivers” whacked-out liberals, dull knifes, clueless idiots, and delusional joes and see for yourself why we need to drill for oil locally until we can efficiently create these bioproducts.
Hey I want LED lights in my house of the future. They’re not just for Christmas-tree and window lighting anymore Todo!
“One portion of the bill sets new efficiency standards for appliances and will make the incandescent bulb — invented two centuries ago and improved and commercialized by Edison in the 1880s — virtually extinct by the middle of the next decade. The bill will phase out conventional incandescents, starting in 2012, with 100-watt bulbs, ultimately ceding the lighting market to more efficient compact fluorescent bulbs and light-emitting diodes (LEDs).”
Looks like Disco will have a revival. http://anthologyoi.com/blogish.....water.html
I think we should elect a President who should take DOWN the solar panels @ the White House and dismantle most of the conservation stuff in the law.
Oops–Reagan already did that.
Pudd: Please quit while you’re behind. You’re getting worse by the hour.
Costco has proved on several fronts that a company can be responsible to its employees and the environment and still be profitable. Costco has consistently earned more per sf from its stores than WalMart.
So Jim, tell me where my facts are wrong? What facts in my PuddyStudy need improvement? Is the Ogallala Aquifer water table level improving? Are the streams and rivers “un”polluting themselves. Is the Gulf dead zone disappearing? Are corn based foods increasing in prices hurting the leetle peeples?
Come on Jim. You upped the ante, so show me some facts!
Also Jim, in the words of a clueless idiot NEW Progressive democrat “Eisenhower Republican”:
“I don’t listen to the likes of you”.
Hurry now times a wasting…
once again i am happy to say this is my family’s primary shop-stop
I believe the doubt about global warming is if it’s man made.
Considering the temp has fluctuated over the life of this planet many times, the increased solar activity, etc., it could be a natural occurring condition.
When I see the rich liberals start selling their beachfront homes for a loss I’ll believe,
The best estimate of the oil under ANWR is that it represents in total a six-month supply for the U.S. As Sen. Joe Lieberman once said, “Is it worth forever losing a national treasure, one of our last great wild places, for a six month supply of oil 10 years from now?”
Wal-mart has also got religion on renewables and energy efficiency. After squeezing workers as much as they possibly can, this is one of the few places they can go to expand their bottom line.
They’re looking at solar, more efficient refigeration, squeezing gas mileage out of their truck fleet.
They’re even asking suppliers to improve their packaging.
I’ll never shop at a Wal-mart (Costco all the way!) but no doubt about it, this is going to have a big impact!
I believe the doubt about global warming is if it’s man made.
And what do you base this doubt on? Oh yeah, those “skeptical scientists” funded by the oil companies.
@12: Marvin Stamm: Glad to see that you are an actual scientist who has spent a career studying global warming…ohhh, it was cold yesterday so global warming doesn’t exist, you say?
I love the maroons who have no clue about the science or keep quoting the same discredited “outlier” scientists – the same ones who think intelligent design is real or the earth is flat.
@2: Puddy
sorry – you have been shot down – we don’t get to independence from foreign oil by using more of our own oil up – and a six months supply at that.
That is like telling a heroin addict that there is a weeks cache of heroin and that will keep him happy and independent of drugs forever.
Great logic!
and setting up straw men – ethanol – won’t cut it either. We need a comprehensive new energy policy – not cheney having secret deals with Enron and Exxon (to increase their profits).
and what administration is blocking states rights (California) to reduce their own pollution and gasoline use? Bushco
7 years of Bush and oil prices are at an all time high, oil imports are at an all time high and Exxon profits are higher than any other company in history.
there is the republican energy policy in a nutshell.
Biofuels. s Dimocan/Reprocan share issue.
Biofuels have become political. The christian corn meqgaolpoly sees its inherent right to sell corn at high prices to generate hydrocarbons. This results in the discovery by both libs and dimocrats that the other party is using the farmers for gain. That said, biofuels and corn-ethanol are NOT the same thing.
Unfortunately for Repricans the answer lies in Evolution. Natural selection TOWARD a biologic fuel does not make much Darwinian sense. Any creature evolving toward becoming oil would be selected against. More evidence for unintelligent design! To counter this, man must play god and CREATE new life forms.
The political issues cut both ways. The oil and soon water crisis will mean we need an aggressive military posture likley to offend libs. and we need to make unholy alliances that will offend the left.
Equally Offensive Energy Plan
1. drop the opposition to Cuba, trade our stuff for their stuff ..cheap sugar! BTW, Cuba also sits off of sizebale underwater oil.
Unfortunately for the dogmatic right, this includes making peace.
Use the military to secure long term sources of fuel. Intervention in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Nigeria need to be considered now, before we have no choice.
2. cut down on domestic drilling. A barrel of oil in February 2015 will be worth a lot more than the present value of the $100 it costs to buy that today.
The free market says buy at the cheapest cost you can .. that is NOT American oil!
Unfortunately for the dogmatic right, the Texas oilmen do not look this far forward. They want their silver now!
3. tax suburbia. Suburbia was am oily wet dream. If we want to be energy more efficient, we need to consider the projected costs of Los Angeles in fuel going into cars. As a start, all major closed roads, i.e. freeways, should be tolled. The tolls should go to the furutre costs of replacement of the structures and toward alternative transportation . light rail.
Unfortunately for the dogmatic right, this includes interfering in propert5y rights and creation fo a single payer rail system.
4. Mandate YUCCA mountain. This more bi-liberal/conservative pandering. The US needs a rational nuclear policy and that probably includes Yucca.
Unfortunately for BOTH sides, this issue means los9ing precious votes.
5. Form an international, strategic alliance directed around long term fuel issues. We need to ally with China and India .. at the potential loss of Taiwan, Japan, and Korea. We also need to ally with Brazil to control deforestation and growth of biofuels.
Unfortunately for BOTH sides this will only work if the others side does not use this as a basis for McCarthyism. Who lost China? Both sides did, lets move on.
6. Spend dollars on BASIC research. There is NO promise that science will solve this problem and even some evidence the problem may not be soluble. The most likely successes come from the imponderables of what we do not know now .. that is very basic science.
Unfortunately for the dogmatic right, this includes life-creation. The formation of new life forms is one of the most promising possibiities to create efficient. biofuels. Furle independence depends on DARWIN
Unfortunately for BOTH sides this means funding the obstreperous intulechuals called Scientists and NOT funding pork. Both parties try to politicize science. This was a large part of the reason the USSR failed and Reprican demeaning of the investor of the internet did not hewlp either.
7. Limit population growth.
Unfortunately for the dogmatic right, this includes encouraging abortion.
So, Goldy…when will you be installing solar panels on the HA Happy Hoolihovel in order to make it habitable? Or are you on the Habitat for Humanity waiting list?
Sure nice of Costco to tout solar panels at its stores located in places where the sun actually shines. I’m curious…are there equivelents for gray skies and drizzle? Say little water wheels that can be turned by falling mist in order to generate maybe enough power to operate a night light?
I’m also curious whether Costco has to buy more solar panels than it will ever use in a lifetime? The same way you have to buy more of whatever it is you buy when shopping at Costco?
There is a curious paradox that no one can explain. How is it that the HA Happy Hooligans, those decriers and eschewers of conspicuous consumerism and consumption, can be so in love with the apex of it, Costco? I suppose they’re just as capable of dropping several C-notes there as anyone else. But just how many $200 crystal Minnie Mouse figurines do you need? And buying 12-volt car batteries by the pallet load? Not to mention a lifetime supply of Kirkland brand bikini underwear?
Speaking of Kirkland brand, Costco will soon introduce its own private label beer. Already selling Kirkland hard stuff at stores in California (the WSLCB – big government at work – won’t allow it here since it has a governmental monopoly on the sale of booze. Isn’t this how the South Sea Bubble started?), its Kirkland beer will be brewed by Gordan Biersch out of California.
So, all you Costco-shopping HA Happy Hoolihoarders on your way to pick up your Kirkland brand solar panels can also get several cases of Kirkland brand beer, which you will no doubt imbibe BEFORE going up on the roof to install the panels. Then you can use your Costco-brokered health insurance to cover expenses associated with falls from your Kirkland brand roof to your Kirkland brand asphalt driveway.
Don’t forget, when all else fails you can always get a nice Executive Membership rebate dividend when you purchase one of these: http://www.costco.com/Browse/P.....d=11009034
But having to buy a six-pack of them? Maybe some of the HA Happy HooliHellbounds can get together and divvy them up. The more, the merrier.
The Piper
Puddy @2,
The US does not have anywhere near the known oil reserves to achieve energy independence. Though we’ve got plenty of dirty coal.
Piper @19,
I don’t shop at Costco. Hate the warehouse experience, and generally find cheaper stuff in smaller quantities on sale elsewhere. But that doesn’t mean I can’t admire the humane, progressive and profitable way the company is run.
Piper Scott @ 19
If you order your Costco casket in advance of need, you can save up to $400 on the expedited shipping costs. Also, your loved ones won’t have to worry about delivery being delayed for reasons beyond their control. It can also make an excellent conversation piece while you are waiting to go …
And to keep this posting on topic … you can take the savings from buying a Costco casket and install Costco solar panels on your house. Too bad they only work well during the summer, when there is (1) more hours of daylight, (2) sun higher in the sky, (3) lower percentage of cloud cover, and (4) less demand for energy.
SeattleJew @ 18
Are these really YOUR words, and what YOU are advocating: “Use the military to secure long term sources of fuel. Intervention in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Nigeria need to be considered now, before we have no choice.”
Military intervention in Iraq sure is working well to secure long term sources of fuel, isn’t it? And where exactly are the major oil fields in Pakistan?
Article in the paper today about a main cause of Global Warming being gasses emitted from the rotting Amazon Jungle.
Also, how much energy was spent making & transporting & installing those Costco Solar Panels??
Where is that in the equation????
I’m all for Solar….but first I’m for understanding all the environmental impacts of the “SOLUTION”!
No more LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWN feel-good stuff & scare tactics….like Gore saying in his Fiction Book that Global warming will cause more intense hurricanes..now scientists say that is not true….too which Gore replies that in his book he merely said SOME SCIENTISTS SAY. If you go back thru his book you will find lots of baseless innuendo.
KLOWNS!
@21…RP…
I have a super-sized Hefty bag with my name on it in the garage for that purpose. My children know that should the need arise, I’m to be stuffed therein and put out on the curb the following Tuesday morning. Waste Management can deal with me.
Gardening affecianado that I am, I’m content to eventually compost.
But solar panels on a roof? How butt-ugly is that? I’m too much of an estheticist to allow a pleasing roof line to be thus sullied.
Besides, as long as Goldy heats the Hoolihovel with OIL, why should I do anything green? The least he could do is convert to natural gas and keep those Canadians working.
The Piper
#16 correctnotright says:
How many of these experts you cite predicted the Global Cooling scare in the mid 70’s? If you do any research on the global cooling scare, you will see that everyone that disagreed as being a denier and a flatearther. (wow, same cute catch phrases being used 30 years later)
Let’s say you are right, global warming is man made. As you know, China is the biggest polluter on the planet, with India not too far behind. Both countries are growing so their pollution is going to grow exponentially. How do we save the planet from doom, use the military to make other countries pollute less?
Like I’ve said before, if everyone that believes in global warming stopped polluting the problem would be solved. Of course, solving the problem isn’t the goal is it?
#23 Mr. Cynical says:
And the global warming scientists parroted owl gore, predicting record hurricanes the last couple years backtracked after their predictions being proven false.
@20…Goldy…
Maybe you should start…Shopping at Costco, that is. Rumor has it that eventual expansion plans for the big-box retailer includes the communication business.
I mean, Costco already offers cradle to grave goods and services – everything from diapers and newborn clothes to pre-garage sale breadmakers to frozen halibut to more IPods than even Steven Jobs has to closet systems to tires to the cheapest lunch in town. Why not communications?
Of course, initially you might have to start out with, “Attention Costco shoppers: Don’t forget to stock up on delicious Kirkland brand humus, a featured item in our deli deparment; it’s good on Rye Crisp or as a compost starter.”
Perhaps your communication skills could be put to use as a demonstrator? “Our Kirkland brand canned chicken makes a wonderful salad or sandwich spread. Simply mix with Kirkland brand mayonnaise, chopped Kirkland brand Walla Walla sweet onions, 1/2 spear of diced Kirkland brand Kosher dills, and spread on your favorite Kirkland brand bread. This item is in stock next aisle over and halfway down. Thank you for shopping at Costco.”
Could prepare you for a retirement career as a Wal-Mart greeter.
Maybe convince Costco to sponsor then franchise HA across the country? With live podcast and blogging appearances at flagship stores in major metros all across the USA. You could gin up a little extra kwan by selling autographed 8X10 Goldy glamour glossies accompanied by a complimentary sharp stick in the eye.
How about having all the franchised “Goldy’s” have names like Coppery, Bronzy, Silvery, Leady, Molybdenumy? Keep it all in the mineral category.
If you want to be big, you have to think big!
The Piper
re 4: Do you also expect us to ask you what percentage of our oil usage would be alleviated by drilling in these places?
http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/index.htm
Facts on solar mylar.
Piper@26–
Funny Stuff…Goldy as a Costco Demonstrator.
However, I’m afraid Goldy would likely scare customers off & cause them to lose their appetite with that shrill Pee-Wee Herman/Alvin the Chipmunk Voice.
I think Goldy is probably better suited to be the dumbass at the door who checks your Costco Card…or better yet, the one with the magic marker who pretends to look at the crap in your cart so you don’t steal stuff. How in the hell could a guy fail at that career??
I suppose our Goldy could find a way.
I would caution Goldy not to fall into the trap of consuming a $1.50 Polish Sausage w/ Kraut daily. Not only will he get portly….he will certainly develop Acid Reflux and a serious gas problem that would put a halt to his infrequent dating opportunities.
Gassy Goldy—armed with his magic marker and keen eye…stopping Costco rip-offs!! Maybe they will give Goldy a gun and a bullet in his pocket like Barney Fife so he nab those dangerous shoplifters.
re 30: How long will it take in ’08 to transform Mr. Cynical into Mr. Irrelevant?
At the latest, early November.
Creighton–
You are typical of the whining LEFTIST PINHEADED morons…always looking for a handout. Too scared to take risks…jealous of those who do.
I bought 3000 shares of BP & Conoco 5 years ago…
BP was @ 29…..it’s now $64.50 and pays a $2.60/share dividend. Stock appreciation & a $7800/yr. dividend
Conoco was 24….it’s now $80.69 and pays a $1.64/share dividend. Stock appreciation and a $4920/yr. dividend.
I also bought National Oilwell Varco (thanks to Roger Rabbit)…no dividend, but great appreciation.
My wife & I burn about 1300 gallons of gas/yr.
Do you really think we care about the cost of gas??
It’s called hedging your bets.
Higher gas prices==more play money
If gas went to $4/gallon, it would cost me another $1300.
How much do you think my dividend & appreciation would go up??
While people like you bitch & moan and complain about wealthy people…I focus on opportunities.
Even if Obama becomes President, there is money to be made…like selling Drug Company stocks short & other companies where his brand of Socialism will hurt a company.
You just keep on moaning Creighton…I prefer to laugh all the way to the bank!
31 – He’s always been irrelevant.
re 32: I’m not whining. I’m just saying you are irrelevant.
It’s nothing you haven’t already admitted to yourself.
re 32: … and Dino Rossi is still not the governor — nor will he ever be — not if my four votes count for anything!
re 33: He’ll never stop being paranoid. Might as well play with it.
32 – Must be rough to have 80 grand lying around to place 5 years bets on stocks.
Only to sell and pay 15 percent tax on those profits while working people pay 3 times as much for their labor.
Seems like it should be the other way around to me. You really had to sweat for those profits, did you?
@37…YippyLil’Boy…
Wow! Someone sure sounds envious! What’s the matter? Your minimum wage plus a nickel dead-end job not gettin’ it done for you?
Your economic condition is your responsibility and your fault. That someone else improves theirs – whether it be Mr. Cynical or his stock picking gury and financial mentor, Roger Rabbit – should be commended, not complained of.
The failure of your entire life is summed up in your words.
The Piper
#37 YLB says:
Must be rough not to take risks, doesn’t it?
If you had life to live over again, would you still be the scared uptight guy you portray online or would you believe in yourself, take risks and live life to it’s fullest?
Driving a 1983 Yamaha GSX 1000 motorcycle 120 MPH on a curving desert road is ‘taking a risk’.
Investing $80,000 in blue-chip oil stocks is as risky as helping your grandmother lay out her clean underwear on Easter Morning.
Marvin, you are pathetic.
re 41: … and a jerkoff.
#41 Creighton Baril says:
Struck a sore point with you?
Calling me a jerk-off, how cute.
38 – Two word, no three words for you:
Giants win.
Loser!
Congrats to Mr. Cynical for seizing opportunities at hand.
Now if only working people were taxed at 15 percent and capital gains at 30 or 40.
@40…Crate & Barrel…
“Driving a 1983 Yamaha GSX 1000 motorcycle 120 MPH on a curving desert road is ‘taking a risk’.”
No, that’s attempted suicide and absolute foolishness.
“Investing $80,000 in blue-chip oil stocks is as risky as helping your grandmother lay out her clean underwear on Easter Morning.”
No, that’s deferring gratification and prudently investing, also known as believing in the future of the free enterprise system.
YippyLil’Boy to whom Marvin directed his remarks is any abyss of bitterness, discontent, and envy. Than anyone has anything above what it takes for a mere subsistance lifestyle he characterizes as injustice.
He reminds me of Ebenezer Balfour in Kidnapped, though lacking in Ebenezer’s social grace.
The Piper
correctnotright said: “Puddy, sorry – you have been shot down – we don’t get to independence from foreign oil by using more of our own oil up – and a six months supply at that.”
How is that correctnotright? If we demonstrate to the Arabs, Chavez’s and Nigerians we are doing our own exploration (cheap by today’s barrel prices) we can drive down the price of oil, put those barrels into our national reserve while buying the cheaper overseas oil and while we continue to develop the cleaner alternatives such as ethanol and biofuels more efficiently. What is so hard to understand here. This isn’t any right-wing web site stuff, and even if it is it’s economics.
Hmmm… I think Creighton Baril is another headless lucy moniker.
“Mr. Cynical” rightly rechristened himself, MR. IRRELEVANT.
http://www.horsesass.org/index.....ent-585511
This fool – headless lucy can change his name but his spots (the words he types) always reappear cuz he’s an idiot!
Energy independence? Any of you familiar with the SPS (Solar Power Satellite) concept?
We could get away from oil, coal, and inefficient solar panels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....satellites if you’re interested…
It’s amazing the amount of misinformation the lefties swallow all the time.
Prudhoe Bay was originally estimated to have 10-12 BBLs oil. May 2006 it pumped it’s 15th BBL of oil and it’s still going.
Let’s assume there are 10BBLs of oil in ANWR. How much natural gas is there?
Even the lefties who write Wikipedia said this: “The 10.4 billion barrel figure was used in publications by the U.S. Department of the Interior while it was headed by Gale Norton, a proponent of drilling in the Arctic Refuge.[10]
The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels daily. If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to supply 5% of the U.S. daily consumption — most is imported from Canada (19%), Mexico (15%), Saudi Arabia (11.5%), Nigeria (10.5%) and Venezuela (10.5%)[11] — the reserves, using the low figure of 4.3 billion barrels, would last approximately 4300 days, or almost 12 years. Using the high estimate, the reserves would last approximately 11800 days, or 32 years. If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge was used to meet 100% of U.S. demand, it would last for 215 days under the low estimate, and 525 days or just 1.4 years if it contained 10.4 billion barrels.”
49 – Silly idea
Ahhh. These right wingers. You guys are the bitter, hostile ones.
Your ideas are totally worthless. Not that any of you really came up with them. They’re totally second hand. You drank the kool-aid, bought the bullshit which was focused-grouped and market tested. You were then spoon fed and like sheep, you were led to slaughter.
We’ve had a chance to see this bullshit in practice.. Are we better off? A tiny few are, but most arent’t.
Now you wonder why everyone can’t wait to be rid of you. How does it feel?
@51 Oh really? Why don’t you tell me why that is so? Can you? In words of greater than one syllable?
Ever heard of a Psychologist named Milgram? He performed some seminal experiments 40 or 50 years ago. You are just the kind of authoritarian personality he identified. You’re definitely an individual that would happily shock someone to death if they were an ideological “enemy”. You’d have had a great career in the SS.
Here comes the sun Clueless Idiot:
http://tvdecoder.blogs.nytimes.....r-network/
OMGoodness!
52 – I can tell you in more words but it’s not worth my time. The idea is totally discredited.
All the right wingers here and in the White House are total fans of torture. Their favorite TV show is 24!
The current AG can’t bring himself to say waterboarding is torture except if it was done to him! Allied lawyers had no problem prosecuting war criminals from the Axis powers who used waterboarding.
Right wing websites are seething with hate towards people who refuse to buy into their bankrupt point of view.
Right wingers can run but they can’t hide from their record.
Rick Perlstein has great article on right wing antics during the 60’s. It’s your legacy. Read it and be proud:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....27_pf.html
YLB says:
“Congrats to Mr. Cynical for seizing opportunities at hand.
Now if only working people were taxed at 15 percent and capital gains at 30 or 40.”
YLB lives in a dreamworld and fails to recognize that if that were to happen, money would be yanked out of the market and put into Bonds….followed by massive unemployment and less taxes generated. YLB would make Jimmy Carter look like super-Economist!
Corporate America, despite the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS screeching to the contrary, pays massive taxes…Federal, State, Local ad infinitum. Earnings are taxed at the Corporate Level. Then Dividends are taxed personally and Capital Gains.
Grow up YLB.
@54 Discredited, my big, fat, hairy, white ass! You have no idea what the SPS concept is even about, and you’re too lazy, or stupid to investigate it further… What a joke.
55 – Tell me how fair it is that someone who sweats or deals with the stress of the workplace is taxed at a much higher rate than someone like you who buys and sells paper chits.
Then you wingnuts complain people are lazy!
Corporate America, despite the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS screeching to the contrary, pays massive taxes
Oh really! Every picture tells a story don’t it? Here’s one of my favorites:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org.....?Docid=264
@57…YippyLil’Boy…
Who says people who make money in the stock market or through other securities transactions don’t sweat and stress? And why don’t you acknowledge that the overwhelminly vast majority of taxes paid are paid by the top 50% of income earners? I’ve posted this so many times it’s not funny!
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi /04in06tr.xls
96.70% of all taxes are paid by the top 50% of wage earners.
84.86% of all taxes are paid by the top 25% of wage earners.
69.19% of all taxes are paid by the top 10% of wage earners.
57.13% of all taxes are paid by the top 5% of wage earners.
36.89% of all taxes are paid by the top 1% of wage earners.
Again, this is from IRS generated data for 2004.
Again, you are an abyss of envy, so what you can’t make on your own, you want to take from others.
Really, how do you sleep at night? Have you no conscience?
No law says you can’t pay more if you don’t think enough tax revenue is headed toward Washington, DC.
The Piper
Clueless Idiot’s two heroes:
Paul Krugman – Discredited by his own newspaper NY Times
Rick Perlstein – Hack of MoveOn
Yeah, right!
@57 Are you for real?
If someone who, as you say “buys and sells paper chits” makes the wrong call and *looses* their money, should they get it back? If they’re *risking* shouldn’t they collect some reward, since by their actions they’re positively affecting far more people, if indirectly, than a given worker would just doing his job?
With risk comes reward. How hard is that to understand? Why don’t you ask Roger, since he’s always bragging about his adventures in the stock market?
61 – Of course not. I’m all for buying and selling chits if that floats your boat. However I think it’s totally unfair that income from buying and selling paper is taxed at a much lower rate than people’s labor.
And why don’t you acknowledge that the overwhelminly vast majority of taxes paid are paid by the top 50% of income earners?
You’re quoting an IRS study. That’s federal taxes idiot.
You’re leaving out state and local which in THIS STATE is paid mostly by middle and lower income people which is utterly unfair.
Nice try.
Oh and I feel so sorry for people’s stress and strains over buying 80 grand worth of stock with the built in return of a dividend and then sitting on it for 5 years to three times their money. I feel so sorry for them when they are over taxed at 15 percent.
60 – Here’s something to warm your right wing heart Stupes:
Right up your crowd’s alley there Silly.
And what no one’s talking about here is that great big boogeyman, the one that could actually help this country move towards energy independence: nuclear power.
Yes, I just heard you gasp. Step back for a minute, and think of three things associated with nuclear power. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
………………
Got them? Okay, I’ll bet that the three things you thought of are on this short list:
Three Mile Island
Chernobyl
Hanford
Yucca Mountain
WPPSS
Homer Simpson
The China Syndrome
Why so scared all of a sudden? D’you mind if I debunk a few myths for you?
Three Mile Island: Okay, they had a minor steam leak, but with no escape of radiation. In other words, NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED! But America panicked, and the plant was shuttered ASAFP.
Chernobyl: Yeah, something happened there, that’s absofuckinglutely sure. But that’s what you get when you use a flawed design (a stolen copy of the Hanford N Reactor) and staff that reactor with people who fully believed in the old Soviet axiom:
“as long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work”
Saw that one coming, eh?
Hanford: Yeah, they left us quite a mess to clean up. But that’s because the scientists who created the materials that went into the first nuclear weapons really didn’t understand just how long that crap takes to decompose. But given the fact that their research actually saved far more lives than it took (look up “Operation Downfall” on Wikipedia to see what I mean), so I can give them a bit of a break on that. But not much. Which leads to……
Yucca Mountain: The (still on the drawing board) nuclear waste depository planned for a a big-ass man-made cave here in Nevada is seen as the logical next step in the long-term internment of nuclear waste. And a big political football. But if the US went on with something I’ll talk about shortly, the complex could probably be shrunk to about the size of a double-wide.
WPPSS: Indeed. But if not for the perfect storm of anti-nuclear hysteria and fiscal mismanagement, there might have been salmon runs returning to the upper Columbia, and more to the Snake. Not to mention electric bills that’d be a lot lower.
Homer Simpson: An anti-nuclear protest in the form of a cartoon. And don’t forget that Matt Groening is a Greenie. And if you’ve read me well enough, you know that I don’t have much love for Greenies.
“The China Syndrome”: IT’S A FUCKING MOVIE! Not to mention a movie about a cover-up of a ‘nuclear accident’ instead of just about said accident.
Okay, back to reality. Exploration of ALL options is needed to create the path to energy independence. Even the one that has most of the folks on this board peeing themselves in fear. But there are a few new wrinkles to nuclear power, plus an old one that could save us all a lot of time and trouble.
Technology has improved. Safety and preparedness have improved. And we have a cadre of nuclear techs and engineers with an unparalleled safety record, ready to move in to the civilian world. As soon as they’ve finished their tours with the Navy, of course. And then there’s fuel reprocessing. I can’t quite remember where I read this, but I found that when a nuclear fuel rod is removed from a reactor, would you believe that this ‘spent’ rod has only used about 5 percent of its materials?
Officially, the US abandoned the idea of nuclear-fuel reprocessing back in the Sixties, on the grounds that it was expensive and unnecessary. But oddly enough, our government has been has been doing it anyway down in Savannah, GA, reprocessing old Soviet warheads into less dangerous forms. If we opened up that plant for civilian use, the amount of nuclear waste produced by the industry would be reduced by yes, 95 PERCENT!
Yeah, nuclear waste is scary. But burying it in a thimble is better than burying it in a five-gallon jug, metaphorically speaking. But America needs to get over its irrational fear of nuclear power in order to take the first steps towards a real independence from petroleum, imported or otherwise.
@62…YippyLil’Boy…
The nice thing about the sales tax is the taxpayer can control how much he pays in taxes by simply not buying. Of course, that there is no sales tax on food and prescription drugs means that these basics don’t factor into the equation at all.
But, you greedy and jealous whiner, that lower and middle income people pay a higher percentage of tax than upper income people could mean that is because they SPEND a higher percentage of their income than those in higher brackets.
People who invested should be encouraged to invest, not taxed. If you want to join their ranks, then invest and save more and spend less. Pretty simple.
The Piper
People who invested should be encouraged to invest, not taxed.
People should also care about what’s fair in a society. Taxing wages higher than capital gains is unfair.
You angry, greedy, intellectually bankrupt and dishonest reprobate.
Say YLB 62 and prior, you probably never have had any, so probably did not know that the cap gains you are envious of are NOT indexed for inflation and ARE taxed higher than 15% under Alt Minimum Tax. So when all that is factored in, the effective tax rate on “rich peole’s” cap gans is not too far off your ordinary income tax rate and may even be higher. Not to mention that the money invested to make cap gains is AFTER TAX money (it is what we have left after paying our taxes).
So quitcher whining, your “envy driven tax plan” makes no sense. Or do you now believe that inflation should be taxed?
#44 YLB says:
Damn, I didn’t even know Piper was playing in the game.
#48 THE Puddybud The Prognosticator… says:
And he’s a racist. I feel sorry for the little black boys he teaches.
You know headless lucy is hating the fact everyone knows he’s a racist. Otherwise he wouldn’t feel the need to hide behind different names every day.
Damn, I didn’t even know Piper was playing in the game.
He predicted the Patriots would win. The Giants winning proves he doesn’t know everything.
@68…YippyLil’Boy…
I’m sorry but “reprobate” is already taken by ratcity, and I don’t think he’d appreciate you harking his moniker and attaching it to me.
Assume three individuals, one with $50K in income, one with $100K, and the third with $500K. For reasons of their own, each lives roughly the same lifestyle. The $50K earner spends most of his income to live. The $100K earner saves and invests most of his over the $50K it takes him to live. The $500K earner saves and invests the vast bulk of his income over the $50K he lives on.
The savings and investment of the $100 and $500K earners remain untouched over time with all dividends, interest, and income plowed back into investments.
Tell me why the two upper income taxpayers should pay more in taxes? They spend the same as the $50K earner, don’t use more government services, and require no more or less governmental expenditure or effort than the $50K earner.
So…justify the higher taxes? So far, all you’ve got is your own greed and envy. If you don’t think upper income taxpayers pay enough, then become one and pay more yourself.
That your life is a failed and pathetic existence isn’t grounds upon which to formulate tax policy.
The Piper
@72…YippeLil’Boy…
The pats lost a game, but you’re a loser in life.
The Piper
#57 YLB says:
Let’s discuss this. Considering how bitter you are, I feel it is safe to assume you don’t own your own business nor do you make a lot of $$. So how would you know about the stress level of those that do? Ever consider it might be more stressful?
Fair that someone who sweats pays more taxes? Well, why are they sweating? No education? Tattoos all over their face? The fact they are making so little money is their fault. Not mine, not yours, but theirs.
The person making more money pays more taxes, get a clue. I think Piper posted the breakdown of income levels paying higher taxes. Are you really this dense?
69 – I call bullshit on your name-calling. I believe in what’s fair. You wingers are always going off about how “lazy” people are and then you defend a system where people derive profits from flipping pieces of paper and other assets like houses, futures and collectibles. The incentives to do anything truly constructive are completely upside down.
You truly believe in what Leona Helmsley said. Only little people pay taxes.
No compromise – labor should be taxed at a lower rate than financial gains. We can quibble reasonably about the spread or inflation adjustments like indexing but I believe you should think twice before contributing to inflating assets. After suffering through a bubble in stocks and now going through a bubble in real estate, one would think people should know better.
#72 YLB says:
Do you have a link to Piper saying he knows everything? If not, it was probably just your own doubts in yourself that made you feel Piper was all that.
#67 Piper Scott says:
Interesting. People without extra cash spend their money as they get it. Rich people save/invest their money. I wonder if financial responsibility is the key to financial success.
@76…YippyLil’Boy…
“The incentives to do anything truly constructive are completely upside down.”
Who are you to decide what’s truly constructive? You deride and condemn what you don’t understand. Take collectibles, for example, which would include works of art. You contend that’s not constructive? That somehow it has no social utility or value? How pathetic!
I think it’s only fair that you pay 100% of your income to those you contend don’t receive enough government money. Put up or shut up.
The Piper
So…justify the higher taxes?
They’ve got the surplus over cost of living, the other guy doesn’t. If you’re going to tax income, go where the income is.
I’d then make the same argument Bill Gates Sr makes for the estate tax. You got the higher income, the chance to make the bigger bucks – you didn’t get there alone. You’re standing on the shoulders of a lot of other people who came before you. What do you owe to the society who make your good fortune possible?
Republicans used to have no problems with progressive income taxes. Thought they were fair. Republicans like Bill Gates Sr. and Pete McCloskey come to mind.
79 – Flipping houses is not constructive and puts home ownership out of reach for many people.
Flipping stocks are just as bad.
I’m done tonight with name callers like PuddySilly, Stamm, Pooper and the zipster.
Commence to circle jerking…
#82 YLB says:
I find it hard to believe it would take you all night to jerk off. Come on back when you’re finished.
@81…YippyLil’Boy…
My #2 son flips houses as part of his business. He takes fixer-uppers, risks his own and his partner’s money to buy them and invest in materials to upgrade it, works like a dog for months completely on spec, and then crosses his fingers hoping to make even a modest profit.
What do you do that’s more stressful or constructive than that?
Let me guess…you work in a dead end job, right?
The Piper
@82…YippyLil’Boy…
When you have nothing which to argue, you run away and hide.
No wonder you’re in such lousy shape today.
The Piper
Just think Clueless Idiot: You gots the Piper/Stamn Smackdown… I took the evening off.
Marvin: The circle jerk comment was P R I C E L E S S.
Most people invest money after they already paid income
tax on it (depending on the investment). Capital gains
taxes should be alot less than 15%.
Marvin, the way Clueless Idiot “argues” and “debates” it is an all night circle jerk for him…
Broadway Joe: I have no problem with Nuclear power. If the French can do it so can we.
Now for some interesting reading about oil try Googling
“Bakken formation” in North Dakota. Another is “Lindsey
Williams”. He was the chaplain on the alaska pipeline.
Very interesting. Also “Deep russian oil well drilling”
Who the hell knows what to believe.
#66 Broadway Joe says:
Those evil republikans are afraid of newclear power. All those pro-lifers are out there protesting. On the otherhand, the dixiecrats are progressive. Oops, my bad. It’s the left side that is against nuclear power. It’s the left like teddy kennedy that is against wind farms. Do you see a pattern? Now maybe even you can see why reasonable thinking people see the left as America-hating crybabies.
Speaking of crybabies, you gonna back up your words and make the trip to LAX or are you like a good liberal going to wait for a government program to do for you?
Sorry assclown, this is my dance, and I call the tunes here. You want to do the Toxic Waltz with me, you do it on my terms and my turf. And those terms are non-negotiable, fuck you very much.
And as for your retarded logic about nuclear power, you didn’t read my post very well, did you? I actually rose above political name-calling. Americans as a whole are scared silly of nuclear power, but I will admit that most of the bile aginst it comes from the eco-terrorists on the VERY far left (remember what I said about Groening?). But unfortunately, people of all political stripes bought that hype.
And as far as Kennedy and wind farms go, IIRC it had something to do with wealthy Cape Cod homeowners not wanting their million-dollar views obstructed by something so………. plebian as a wind farm in the middle of Massachusetts Bay.
I think the nurse is coming in now for your sponge bath, Marvin. You really should consider conserving what little brainpower you have left for that, and for remembering your children’s names when they come to visit.
DIS-missed!
Broadway Delusional Jerkoff Joe:
Your dance? What a joke. The dance ended 2 years ago when we whom think right blogged about these issues and you just arrived? I read your post. You just need to know the facts and posts history on HorsesASSHoles.
If you decide to check the HoresesASSHole archives, you’ll find we on the right teased you on the left in 2006 regarding yo peeples stance on nuclear power. We delivered France’s stance then, johnny cum lately.
If you decide to check the HoresesASSHole archives, you’ll find we on the right teased you on the left in 2006 regarding Ted Kennedy’s rant on wind turbines on Cape Cod. We delivered Kennedy’s stance then, johnny cum lately.
As always you are $2 short and a bit late to the dance… so get all haughty over being 2 years late to the game delusional one. I hear there are some receipts that need your attention.
BTW Delusional Joe, where did I call you a name in post #89?
“Broadway Joe: I have no problem with Nuclear power. If the French can do it so can we.”
You actually made sense (for once) in post #66. I gave you the respect due on a cogent post from a 16%er. You are just two years late to the ASSDance!
When you extract head from your ASS let me know.
#92 Broadway Joe says:
I knew you weren’t going to back up your tough talk. Typical. But in all honesty, I don’t blame you at all. The world has doers and talkers, you outed yourself as a talker. In the future, keep your mouth shut when adults are talking, capiche?
Like I said, fear mongering from the left to scare everyone about newclear power. Exactly like the scare tactics about man made global warming. Chicken little syndrome. Hey, that also applies to you doesn’t it? You were going to kick my ass until I welcomed you to try and then you decided against it.
Rich leftists refusing to do for the good of the world. I’m not surprised. Leftists usually say one thing and do another.
Scary isn’t it. I need to conserve brain power to remember my children but I can still punk you with my limited ability. hahahaha
Speaking of the sun, China is experiencing it’s coldest winter in 100 years. Nary a peep from the liberal Gorebasmed MSM.