Via Atrios, the New York Post reports:
October 10, 2007 — ODDEST couple of the decade: lifelong Democrat Andrew Stein and arch-conservative cutie Ann Coulter. The former city council president (when there was such a title) first took Coulter – author of “If Democrats Had Any Brains, They’d Be Republicans” – to the black-tie Lincoln Center Film Society gala two weeks ago, where they turned heads. More recently, they were at Soho House “in passionate liplock,” according to a witness. Stein told Page Six: “She’s attacked a lot of my friends, but what can I say, opposites attract!”
For some reason, it reminded me of this:
“Cutie”?!?
If you’re into succubi.
Obviously a master-slave relationship, which reminds me of an old joke:
“Hurt me! Hurt me!” said the massochist.
To which the sadist replied, “No!”
“arch-conservative cutie Ann Coulter”
Ann Coulter isn’t cute.
Seems to me that the Post misspelled cootie in reference to the Coultergeist.
To borrow a phrase from Cavemen, let’s keep the penis in the genus, huh?
@4
You may be right. I originally thought they misspelled cunt.
@5
I heard that show is cancelled. How bad was it?
Lee, out of respect to the LGBT community, I won’t speculate about the applicability of your interpretation of my comment.
I’m also trying to suppress thoughts about the always-troubling Matalin-Carville pairing.
Speaking of hated members of the female persuasion…the news is out today that Fox News has hired Carly Fiorina.
I predict a spate of television sets being tossed out of windows by present and former employees of Hewlett-Packard.
@6…Lee…
Getting caught up in lefty PC’ness, are you?
BTW…the reference to Caveman may be to the live stage show, Bob Becker’s Defending the Caveman, which passes through town every once in a while. I saw it once, and it’s an absolute scream!
The Piper
lee…..if iam a racist [hey…you said so right?] then what does this statement make YOU?
***Lee says:
@4
You may be right. I originally thought they misspelled cunt.*
you know, or you should that the “C” word is as offensive to women as the “N” word is to african americans. so i guess you are a sexist pig….at the least.
wow…who knew? [ME]
i thought you were going to quote me ….what happened little man? couldn’t come up with anything to back up your lies?
now, there’s a big surprise.
‘Cavemen’ was almost as bad as Emeril Lagasse’s sitcom. But I’ll admit that it wasn’t Emeril’s fault. My wife and I watched all six episodes (brave, huh?) and came to the conclusion that the entire cast was trying too hard to cover for Emeril’s lack of legitimate acting experience, and came off looking like a junior-high production, while Emeril was the only one there who looked comfortable in front of the camera.
Whoever came up with the idea that the Geico Cavemen could be funny for 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds (and those who fail as badly as he/she/it did) should be the real detainees at Gitmo! The CIA could use some ‘enhanced interrogation’ methods on them like say, forcing them to watch their work non-stop for 20 days straight, ripping up a copy of a “M*A*S*H*” or “I Love Lucy” script and shoving it down a toilet in front of them……..
Any other ideas?
@10
Yes, you are a racist, and no, using the word cunt does not make someone sexist unless you’re using it indiscriminantly about all women.
i thought you were going to quote me ….what happened little man? couldn’t come up with anything to back up your lies?
For those of you not following, here’s the explanation of how Christmasghost outed herself as a racist:
http://effinunsound.com/?p=312
@7: Yeah, that M-C match has bugged me, too. In my opinion, it appears to be more of a business decision. They always appear on the Sunday pundit navel gazing shows as a couple. She sits right next to him and tells flat out wingnut lies, and he grins sheepishly.
But if they say they love each other, who are we to argue?
Maybe, like the bald guy in the video, Lee wants to know what’s under Ann Coulter’s dress.
Artfart @8,
Did you hear about the severance package Carly Fiorina got from HP? If being hated means you get that much moola, sign me up!! I’ll be gladly hated by HP employees for that kind of money!!
@13…PTBAA…
Given they have children, their “business decision” relationship must include some level of monkey business.
The Piper
Just more evidence that there is not two political parties, just two sides of the same coin.
@16
You got that right!
@10 “Cunt”, like many words in the English language, has multiple meanings. To some, it is a vulgar and offensive reference to a portion of female anatomy. To others, it describes a certain female personality type. To many liberals, it’s an apt description of Ann Coulter.
@14
Maybe, like the bald guy in the video, Lee wants to know what’s under Ann Coulter’s dress.
@15
Given they have children, their “business decision” relationship must include some level of monkey business.
Thank god I wasn’t eating when I checked back here.
What’s the quarantine radius around this guy, and how long do we need to keep the respirators on every time he kisses her?
@20…RR…
You mean that Ragin’ Cajun reptile, Jimmy Carvile?
The Piper
and for those of you following lee trying to make me out to be a racist here is a little excerpt where he proves he is a soul-less bastard.
“christmasghost says:
wow lee…a new low even for you.
first…you asked me:
*Then what is it? Are you going to say that you would be perfectly happy if a police officer tackled and handcuffed a friend of yours and brought her to jail because she bought a bag of marijuana? Or are you going to admit that it was wrong for the police to act that way in the video? You either take one of those two positions, or you’re very clearly a racist.
my answer:
yes…i would be perfectly happy. absolutely. do i agree with the laws? no again. BUT, think what would happen if we let every idiot like you cherry pick what laws he was going to follow. CHANGE THEM YOU COMPLETE IDIOT.
and then you truly stoop to a new low, even for you as i said before…..
LEE SAYS: “Keep dreaming. And please seek some psychological help as well. I’ve met a lot of people like you, and it’s not a surprise that your niece ran away from home if the rest of your family is as hateful and pigheaded as you.”
especially the last part. can anyone stoop lower than that?
lee….you are a piece of worthless trash.
To be crude and inappropriate, but utterly honest: I wouldn’t fuck Ann Coulter with someone else’s dick.
@22
I’ve responded in the other thread. At this point, Christmasghost, I’m just hoping that you have the courage to get the psychological help you need. You have some very serious problems.
Amen to that!
Sorry to duplicate this comment, but I think I should reply to Christmasghost’s dual commenting:
————————————————
yes…i would be perfectly happy. absolutely. do i agree with the laws? no again. BUT, think what would happen if we let every idiot like you cherry pick what laws he was going to follow. CHANGE THEM YOU COMPLETE IDIOT.
Of course I’m trying to change them. What do you think I’ve been doing with my blogging for the past few years? If an act does not victimize someone, it should not be illegal. Is that too hard to figure out?
I have no way of knowing whether or not your answer is fully honest, but I’ll take your word for it. The numbers are very clear that you’re an exception. For several decades now, white Americans have been very content to watch thousands of black Americans hauled off to jail only to scream and yell bloody murder if their children happen to get busted as well. Only you know the real answer to that.
wow…you are a piece of trash.
Am I wrong?
When I was 17, I dated a girl (she was also 17) who came from an abusive family. She was anorexic, and her mother was a very religious person. That’s how they dealt with their father, who had at various times nearly killed them (and her brothers). As I’ve read your comments over the years, and how you approach dealing with people, you very clearly come across as someone living in the same kind of dysfunction. It’s very obvious. When I heard that your niece was missing (and 17), and that the police were not interested in looking for her, it immediately made me think of my ex-girlfriend who thought a lot about just running away (she never did, although she got a scholarship and attended college). When you factor in the disgusting way you attack people based upon nothing more than external superficialities, to the fact that your sister likely shares a lot of those traits, to the fact that police and media seemed very disinterested in sounding the alarm bells about an attractive 17-year-old missing person, the answer is obvious that she left by her own choice.
I learned a lot about how to rattle cages, and I have no problem rattling yours. Of all the commenters I’ve ever interacted with, I arguably feel sorry for you the most. You live a pitiful, angry, existence where you blame “liberals” for everything but obviously can’t deal with the issues that affect you personally. Whether or not you think I’m an asshole is irrelevant to me. But if you want to continue to pollute the national discourse with your racist clap-trap, the gloves are off.
—————————-
There’s a lot of history here, and I understand if people think I crossed a line, but there comes a time where someone’s commenting habits become alarming enough in its tone that I feel compelled to determine if there’s an actual mental health issue that needs to be addressed. Obviously, Puddybud is in this category as well.
Thanks Lee for proving liberalism is a mental disorder!
I agree the War on Drugs was met with full white applause until they started confiscating the cars and homes of the ‘burb boys and girls when they came into my part of town to pick up their fix. Then it became something else.
Kind of like the laws now when ‘burb boys and girls go curb crawling.
@27
Congrats Puddybud, you’re only slightly less crazy than Christmasghost. Perhaps you could explain to her that drug laws are enforced more vehemently in black neighborhoods than white ones.
lee….you truly are a disgrace even to the left.
where did you get your medical degree from? ASSUMPTION U?
people that have very little formal education, and are not doctors to boot should not try to practice any kind of medicine. hey, that’s why there are laws against it. to keep complete idiots like you from ‘diagnosing’ people.
but, truly, this comment of yours made me laugh out loud. “When you factor in the disgusting way you attack people based upon nothing more than external superficialities,”
ohmygod! PRETEND PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF!
aren’t you just describing yourself?
after all…who is it that consistently calls women cunts and/or infers that anyone that disagrees with them is insane, on drugs ,lonely, fat, ugly etc.
you are really a piece of work.
but, honey, if you think you have the sand to rattle my cage it is you that really needs therapy.
you couldn’t even come close.
but keep trying you little non-quoter, you. heh heh heh
and BTW, my niece is still missing. thanks for showing what a heartless piece of trash you are.this is the first time i have ever been “relieved” that my sister is too sick from cancer to read any of this.she is a wonderful loving mother of five that won’t live to see her youngest kids grow up.
but hey, little man, whatever makes you feel like somebody, right?
hey goldy…i see that your deleting comments policy only works against people that disagree with you or you would have stomped on lee for his appalling comment, right?
Piper Scott says:
@13…PTBAA…
Given they have children, their “business decision” relationship must include some level of monkey business.
The Piper
So OK, OK already, they fell for (or into) a couple of money losing tax deductions. Who’s to say business can’t be fun, too?
@29
Goldy is free to delete my comment if he wants, and I won’t be surprised if he does. At this point, I’ve had enough conversations with you, and I’ve endured enough of your racist horseshit and your other nonsense that I simply don’t care if I offend you, hurt your feelings, or denigrate your family. You are one of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered over the internet. From the time you were screaming about how “liberals” were trying to destroy Christmas to your continued insistence that black people are in jail in greater numbers for drug crimes because of a purely racist belief that they’re more likely to be involved with them, you’ve shown yourself to be a hateful, ignorant person who doesn’t care at all about the truth.
I’ve long been sympathetic to your sister’s situation and your missing niece, but I don’t give a rat’s ass any more. There’s a point where someone can be so bereft of heart and soul that they can no longer command sympathy from others. You’ve reached that point with me. I obviously can’t know the specific details about why your niece ran away, but as I said before, if she was taken against her will, it would have been a huge story like the Elizabeth Smart case. The reason the police didn’t look for her is probably because they talked to friends of hers who told them that she was running away. I know that sucks and I know it must be difficult on your sister, but that’s the reality. Even if reality is something you fear. The point is that if you’d be more honest about what really happened, you’d be much more likely to find her.
Wooohooo!!! Talking about letting her have it with both barrels!!
Spot.On.Lee!!!
Ghost completely warps reality in her path. She once blurted out that she only commented on (un)SP 6 times. I blew that away with one google search.
The woman is nuts, period.
lee says :”At this point, I’ve had enough conversations with you, and I’ve endured enough of your racist horseshit and your other nonsense”
in other words, little man, you can’t take the heat and are running from the kitchen, and yet, who was it that was throwing around really crappy comments? it was you.
and then :”that black people are in jail in greater numbers for drug crimes because of a purely racist belief that they’re more likely to be involved with them,”
sorry again toots but you can STOP putting words in my mouth that i DIDN’T say. that’s just intellectually dishonest and if you have to do that, as i said before, to make a lame point you don’t have a point.what i said was people get arrested for breaking the law or appearing to break the law.do i think that the police are out to get minorities? are you kidding? no. in today’s social climate that would be really really stupid. does it happen sometimes? i’m sure it does. but i’ll bet there are black/hispanic officers that are out to get white guys too. there are always bad apples in any bunch, the police being no exception, but if you are going to paint an entire group of people with such a broad brush then you are a bigger fool than i thought possible.the police risk their lives to protect us and for very little pay considering they get shot at.
who do you call when you have a break in? Hmmmmm?
and then this ‘pearl’…”You are one of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered over the internet.”
really, lee? what are you? 12? i am the worst because i don’t fold when you attack me? don’t agree with you? can’t be manipulated by you? have you seen the internet lee? why don’t you pull up the KKK’S page…and then attack them for being the racist pieces of trash they are. better yet, call senator byrd. i’m sure he would love to hear from you.
and then your pathetic little rationalization for your extremely crass behavior:
“I’ve long been sympathetic to your sister’s situation and your missing niece, but I don’t give a rat’s ass any more. There’s a point where someone can be so bereft of heart and soul that they can no longer command sympathy from others.”
lee….you were the one that brought up my niece.out of the blue i might add. because you assumed [correctly]that it would be very ,very hurtful. it had nothing to do with what we were discussing, it was just a typical nonsense lee attack. i don’t remember asking you to feel anything.but, even if i had, do you really think that your behavior can be rationalized away because WAA WAA WAA i “made” you do it???
for cripes sake!
behold the modern liberal. young, white and born with a silver foot in his mouth.but he knows better than you do!
i won’t suggest therapy to you…hey they aren’t miracle workers you know[TIC] but i will suggest classes in debating and maturity……..
and then we have YLB. what a surprise. he’s thanking you lee for “getting me” because he himself has been so out gunned for so long.
too bad all you did was make a fool of yourself and show what you are really made of.
it says everything about YOU and YLB, and nothing about me.
why are you liberals so prone to violence? physical, verbal etc. everything is a fight.you WANT people to fail, to be hurt, to suffer JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T AGREE WITH YOU.you make ludicrous statements such as: “we should arm ourselves”[but don’t you hate guns???] “we should fight” [but aren’t you ‘pacifists’???]…..
is there any consistent message other than you don’t know the meaning of consistent?
and when you disagree with a woman you attack her calling her a cunt, or throwing a family tragedy in her face.
chilling really…what passes for ‘thinking’ with you.
you can rationalize just about anything.
how about showing everyone that you do know how to be decent by saying “hey. that was wrong. i was being very childish and because i couldn’t get someone to agree with me i deliberately tried to hurt them in a very cruel manner”
now, that would show everyone that you actually know the difference between right and wrong.
so, i won’t be holding my breath.
@33
lee says :”At this point, I’ve had enough conversations with you, and I’ve endured enough of your racist horseshit and your other nonsense”
in other words, little man, you can’t take the heat and are running from the kitchen, and yet, who was it that was throwing around really crappy comments? it was you.
Who’s running where? I’m right here sweetheart, and I will continue to point out how much of a racist you are.
and then :”that black people are in jail in greater numbers for drug crimes because of a purely racist belief that they’re more likely to be involved with them,”
sorry again toots but you can STOP putting words in my mouth that i DIDN’T say. that’s just intellectually dishonest and if you have to do that, as i said before, to make a lame point you don’t have a point.
Incorrect:
Here’s what you wrote in the other thread:
lee…..your references and conclusions are silly to say the least. did you ever consider that they arrest the people breaking the laws based on the fact that THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS???
And then later…
yeah…what are those cops thinking going into drug and gang INFESTED areas to arrest people? yutz. when you want seafood do you go to omaha? get real, lee, this is so stupid.it’s not just a “perception” if they are arresting alot of drug dealers there is it? a perception is something you imagine ‘could be’.
Your point was very clearly that cops arrest people for drug crimes in greater numbers in black neighborhoods because there are more “drug dealers” there. There’s no arguing this. It’s very obvious from your comments.
what i said was people get arrested for breaking the law or appearing to break the law.do i think that the police are out to get minorities? are you kidding? no.
And you’re DEAD WRONG ABOUT THIS. Here’s another recent article about it:
http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/edwards/64438/
This is what we’re talking about. There’s really no other explanation for your stubborn refusal to believe this very well known phenomenon. It’s because you’re a racist.
lee….you were the one that brought up my niece.out of the blue i might add. because you assumed [correctly]that it would be very ,very hurtful. it had nothing to do with what we were discussing, it was just a typical nonsense lee attack.
You’re right. And it’s because I’m so fucking fed up with your ignorance that I want to rattle your cage. Your inability to deal with reality doesn’t affect anything of consequence when you rattle off your uninformed nonsense here in the comments. But the situation with your niece is one real life way in which if you could learn to deal with the world as it is, it could help you significantly.
behold the modern liberal. young, white and born with a silver foot in his mouth.but he knows better than you do!
I do just fine for myself. I was lucky enough to have parents who emphasized the importance of thinking for yourself.
@34
why are you liberals so prone to violence? physical, verbal etc. everything is a fight.
Because people like you (and Ann Coulter) are a threat to our freedom. Deal with it.
Lee…..your references and conclusions are silly to say the least. did you ever consider that they arrest the people breaking the laws based on the fact that THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS???
uh huh…i said that. your point is?
it seems pretty clear and common sense to me.
then you add:”Your point was very clearly that cops arrest people for drug crimes in greater numbers in black neighborhoods because there are more “drug dealers” there. There’s no arguing this. It’s very obvious from your comments.”
funny, i never said “BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS” did i?
wow….is that what you think? the truth is finally coming out here. you are the one that thinks blacks are commiting more crimes. you said it yourself. wow…you must be a racist.sad……..
actually i said DRUG and GANG infested neighborhoods and YOU ASSUMED that must mean black. wow….who is really the racist here? YOU. you are a closet elitist racist. just like you know better than us women what we should want and you feel that you need to speak for us, behold the rich white boy talking for african americans…..cause just like us women, they are just too inept to do it for themselves.
and then you quote an article. wow…it must be true if it’s on the web right? sheesh….
“very well known phenomenon.” oh come on! you are so full of it [and yourself] it’s pathetic. does it happen? you bet. but on a regular/planned basis? no.and things are getting better all the time. why are you beating the drum of racism so much? trying to impress people? where were you when the duke players were being unfairly charged? not a peep right? wasn’t that racism? do you honestly believe that racism only comes in one color?
don’t be such a fool! real racism comes in all colors and should be treated the same way no matter who is affected.
and then the pearl of all pearls..
“You’re right. And it’s because I’m so fucking fed up with your ignorance that I want to rattle your cage. Your inability to deal with reality doesn’t affect anything of consequence when you rattle off your uninformed nonsense here in the comments. But the situation with your niece is one real life way in which if you could learn to deal with the world as it is, it could help you significantly.”
so I MADE YOU behave in an inexcusable way? sorry toots….but you only have yourself to blame for that. and yet still you don’t do the right thing ,do you?
but i love the fact that you are “just trying to help me”
as i said before “PRETEND PHYSICIAN HEAL THYSELF”
and i guess we can add ‘pretend human being’, because obviously you still haven’t gained your “human bean” status
as for your parents…..i am sure they are very nice people. too bad they didn’t manage to teach you any manners.
“I do just fine for myself. I was lucky enough to have parents who emphasized the importance of thinking for yourself.”
are you sure you don’t mean “thinking ONLY OF yourself?”
lee…
so FREE SPEECH is a threat to “our” freedoms???
really?
look…i don’t agree with ann coulter, BUT, i would love to hear your take on how what she says is a threat to our freedoms.wow……you reveal so much about yourself time and time again.
did your parents never teach you about ‘sticks and stones’???
add history and critical thinking classes to what i suggested to you before………
Ghost – you’re not worth my time any more. I’ll let the next couple of elections do the talking for me.
I commend Lee for the excellent job he’s doing. Someone’s got to do it.
YLB…you are a useless illiterate coward. scare me some more.
you commend lee for talking trash about a missing girl. wow…..what a “man” you must be.
i believe “toady” is the word i am looking for.
Boo!
Ghost,
While I can’t agree with the tone of Lee’s remarks, he’s pretty much spot on in the substance. Start with the two very well documented facts that a) drug-related crimes occur just about as often, indeed more often depending on the specific crimes, in white neighborhoods as they do in predominately black neighborhoods, and b) that drug-related arrests in black neighborhoods very disproportionately outweigh the number of drug-related arrests in white neighborhoods.
And, no, you can’t simply dismiss those facts due to the fact that we can find some of that documentation on the internet. If there are problems with Lee’s sources, by all means, point them out in detail. Anything less is generally known as an ad-hominem argument.
Now, take these very well documented facts, and place your remarks in that context:
yeah…what are those cops thinking going into drug and gang INFESTED areas to arrest people? yutz. when you want seafood do you go to omaha?
Well, if black offenders are arrested in numbers proportionately much higher than white offenders are arrested, and the police are going into “drug and gang INFESTED” areas to arrest people, then, clearly, the police must believe that black neighborhoods are more “drug and gang INFESTED” than predominately white neighborhoods, no? That’s a line of reasoning so simple even Jane Belogh’s dog can follow it.
Now, from the actual context of your remarks, you appear to be offering up this “going into drug and gang INFESTED areas” idea as justification for why black offenders are arrested in numbers disproportionate to those of white offenders. That’s certainly how Lee read it, though, frankly, given your e e commings style, I find your comments exceedingly difficult to read and understand. If that’s not what you meant, by all means, correct it.
But, I don’t think you can fault Lee for reading your statement the way he did. The syllogism is just too straighforward and the connection way too obvious that it isn’t at all necessary for you to have explicitly referred to “BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS” to have intended that very meaning.
There’s one last point worth making. It’s entirely possible that you intended to place an emphasis on gang activity and that the drug arrests end up being incidental to a police focus on gang activity, but that’s clearly not the argument you had presented. Again, if that’s what you had intended to say, then you certainly could have chosen a far better way to say it, which immediately gives rise to the question as to why you didn’t choose a different way to state the point.
Bottom line: Lee has a point, and, rather than jumping all over Lee for putting words in your mouth, I would suggest you take a look at the way you’ve constructed your own argument to see if you can’t state it a little more clearly.
don joe……..you said…
“then, clearly, the police must believe that black neighborhoods are more “drug and gang INFESTED” than predominately white neighborhoods, no?”
yes…absolutely.and we have to ask the question “but are they?” if we are going to be honest about it.i don’t know the answer to that. i don’t think it has anything to do with the color of one’s skin and alot to do with culture and poverty.i think if you go into areas famous for being full of “poor white trash” you are going to find pretty much the same drug use etc.the cops are under alot of pressure [i might suggest to lee that he go on a ride along in the bad part of town on a friday night…it will be a real eye-opener for him]
and i might add one more point. where lee sees the cops as being racist maybe it’s simply that in poor neighborhoods where there is alot of gang activity the said activity is more OBVIOUS to any observer. whereas in a suburban neighborhood you don’t have the gangs [and come on…it’s not like gangs are subtle or anything]and maybe the kids are sneakier about it.but this begs the question. if everyone KNOWS that the police are racists just out to get them then why are they selling drugs out in the open? where everyone can see them? i asked my nephew [the cop] this and he said it was a game.who knows?
you said….”It’s entirely possible that you intended to place an emphasis on gang activity and that the drug arrests end up being incidental to a police focus on gang activity,”
yes…that’s pretty much what i intended to do.they are incidental.i guess my comparison to our ex lazy employee didn’t fly. sorry.
and sorry, but i can and do fault lee for assuming the worst and putting words in my mouth. he said black neighborhoods….not i. i think [if i was going to operate like lee] that would be very telling indeed.
and then there are his comments about my niece. are you comfortable with those?
i’m interested.
and i would like to see people here condemning racism where ever it occurs and to whatever race. wouldn’t that be refreshing? so when you see the pictures of one white kid getting jumped by 6 black kids…..you will be just as mad as when you see white kids attacking black kids.and, frankly, i am not seeing that in today’s society.
because if we don’t start holding everyone’s feet to the same fire there is never going to be any peace.i think equality is one of the most important concepts we have….and it needs to be strongly embraced by everyone. no free passes because it’s your friend or ally committing the act……
and the concept that racism has a color is just wrong.it doesn’t…unless rotten people are all the same color. and they aren’t.
ghost,
Give it a rest. Humboldt County has plenty of pot; go get yourself some. By the way, did you know that your posts are incomprehensible due to lack of punctuation, capital letters, grammatical errors, failure to put paragraphs where paragraphs are supposed to go, etc.?
@37
Lee…..your references and conclusions are silly to say the least. did you ever consider that they arrest the people breaking the laws based on the fact that THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS???
uh huh…i said that. your point is?
it seems pretty clear and common sense to me.
What I said was that black people get arrested for drug crimes at a much higher percentage than whites. The above was your response, which is INCORRECT. Blacks are not getting arrested because they are breaking the laws more. Blacks are getting arrested because the laws are enforced more vigorously in neighborhoods that are predominantly black. Even Puddybud admits this happens. Puddybud!
then you add:”Your point was very clearly that cops arrest people for drug crimes in greater numbers in black neighborhoods because there are more “drug dealers” there. There’s no arguing this. It’s very obvious from your comments.”
funny, i never said “BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS” did i?
But you responded to a comment of mine that was referring to black neighborhoods.
wow….is that what you think? the truth is finally coming out here. you are the one that thinks blacks are commiting more crimes. you said it yourself. wow…you must be a racist.sad……..
Um, what? Are you retarded? Here’s the comment you responded to:
Here on earth, the Republicans don’t have a chance in 2008 because they’re overtly supporting a guy whose entire MO is precisely what I’m talking about here – using drug laws to throw as many minorities into jail as possible while not targeting white neighborhoods. Ask someone who lived in NYC under Giuliani. Whether or not they say that drug laws were heavily enforced will be based primarily on whether they lived in a neighborhood with a high minority population.
Back to your stupidity…
actually i said DRUG and GANG infested neighborhoods and YOU ASSUMED that must mean black. wow….who is really the racist here? YOU. you are a closet elitist racist.
No, as you can see very clearly from the comment above, we were discussing why law enforcement arrested more people in black neighborhoods, and you responded that they were “gang-infested”. I pointed out that the only evidence you have of that is that blacks (and latinos) live there. You had no idea if the neighborhoods are actually gang infested. You just assumed they are because of who lives there.
just like you know better than us women what we should want and you feel that you need to speak for us, behold the rich white boy talking for african americans…..cause just like us women, they are just too inept to do it for themselves.
Being pro-choice is actually the OPPOSITE of believing that one knows what’s best for women. And I don’t believe that African Americans are too inept to do anything for themselves. I’m simply pointing out the well-established fact that when it comes to our drug laws, African-Americans are much more severely impacted by these draconian useless laws that send way too much people to prison who don’t belong there.
and then you quote an article. wow…it must be true if it’s on the web right? sheesh….
Dr. Glenn Loury is actually a well respected professor who testified in front of Congress last week. But he’s an African American, so I’m sure he just looks to you like a gangbanger who belongs in jail.
“very well known phenomenon.” oh come on! you are so full of it [and yourself] it’s pathetic. does it happen? you bet. but on a regular/planned basis? no.
Yes it does. It’s certainly not “planned” in any conspiratorial eliminationist sense, but it does happen on a regular basis, and in nearly every major U.S. city. Seattle and San Francisco have two of the highest disparities in the entire country of those arrested by race. It is a phenomenon that reflects the lingering racial animosity that you and many of our fellow countrymen still have.
why are you beating the drum of racism so much? trying to impress people? where were you when the duke players were being unfairly charged? not a peep right? wasn’t that racism? do you honestly believe that racism only comes in one color?
The Duke incident was obviously a disgrace, but thankfully the three young men didn’t have to spend 12 years in jail like this guy:
http://www.northcountrygazette.....dna_frees/
The reality is that many black people have been railroaded on bogus rape charges without being on TV. I’m not trying to impress anyone. I’m trying to call attention to what’s long been a big problem in this country. But of course, you only care about that problem when it affects white people. Why is that? You know the answer.
don’t be such a fool! real racism comes in all colors and should be treated the same way no matter who is affected.
Then why are you so stubbornly ignoring it when it concerns how drug laws are enforced? If real racism should be treated seriously, then start treating it seriously. The reality is obvious. You only care about racism when whites are the victims.
so I MADE YOU behave in an inexcusable way? sorry toots….but you only have yourself to blame for that. and yet still you don’t do the right thing ,do you?
I’m not ashamed of what I did. Someone needs to give you a good psychological smackdown. You have some very serious mental issues that you need to deal with. You got angry at me because I corrected something you wrote that was wrong, and you’ve completely flipped out because you couldn’t handle the fact that something that you were trained to detect as “liberal baloney” turned out to be completely true. Grow the fuck up, and stop blaming everyone else for your pathetic existence. “Liberals” aren’t the bogeyman that keeps you from handling the difficult travails you’ve dealt with in your life. Your own ignorance and your own stubbornness are to blame. You’re not a child any more. Stop acting like one.
are you sure you don’t mean “thinking ONLY OF yourself?”
Yeah, I’m a rich white guy who complains about how blacks are railroaded in our criminal justice system because I’m thinking only of myself. My god, you’re stupid.
@43
yes…absolutely.and we have to ask the question “but are they?” if we are going to be honest about it.i don’t know the answer to that. i don’t think it has anything to do with the color of one’s skin and alot to do with culture and poverty.i think if you go into areas famous for being full of “poor white trash” you are going to find pretty much the same drug use etc.the cops are under alot of pressure [i might suggest to lee that he go on a ride along in the bad part of town on a friday night…it will be a real eye-opener for him]
But if you go to a rich college town, you will see much more drug use than in either a poor black area or a poor white area. Socio-economics obviously plays a role along with race, but race plays a very big role when it comes to the “perception” of criminality, and as a result, who not only gets targeted, but what tactics are tolerated and what level of disfunction in the justice system is overlooked.
and i might add one more point. where lee sees the cops as being racist maybe it’s simply that in poor neighborhoods where there is alot of gang activity the said activity is more OBVIOUS to any observer. whereas in a suburban neighborhood you don’t have the gangs [and come on…it’s not like gangs are subtle or anything]and maybe the kids are sneakier about it.
That is certainly true, but tactics that are used in the black community (confidential informants, no knock raids) almost never get used in areas where people can easily hire attorneys. Again, this also brings in the socio-economic factors, but the gap is so wide that this alone cannot explain it.
if everyone KNOWS that the police are racists just out to get them then why are they selling drugs out in the open? where everyone can see them? i asked my nephew [the cop] this and he said it was a game.who knows?
First of all, of the roughly 800,000 people arrested in 2006 for marijuana offenses, only around 10% were selling it, so when you’re talking about dealers, you’re only talking about a small percentage of the overall total of people arrested. Second, there is a disparity in that the number of people who sell drugs to support themselves are more likely to be a minority. People who do that often sell in the open because it helps them make more money. It’s a risk-reward situation as they obviously risk arrest.
yes…that’s pretty much what i intended to do.they are incidental.i guess my comparison to our ex lazy employee didn’t fly. sorry.
and sorry, but i can and do fault lee for assuming the worst and putting words in my mouth. he said black neighborhoods….not i. i think [if i was going to operate like lee] that would be very telling indeed.
Of course I said black neighborhoods. The entire point I’m making is that black neighborhoods have been targeted over the years disproportionately, and this phenomenon has had a devastating affect on those communities.
and i would like to see people here condemning racism where ever it occurs and to whatever race. wouldn’t that be refreshing? so when you see the pictures of one white kid getting jumped by 6 black kids…..you will be just as mad as when you see white kids attacking black kids.and, frankly, i am not seeing that in today’s society.
What society are you talking about where that’s not true? Everyone I’ve ever met in my life is just as bothered by black on white violence as white on black violence. How on earth do you get to a point where you think that it’s not true? Who’s telling you that? What is giving you that impression? I’m asking because it’s beyond assinine to believe that any of us see a white person being attacked and think that it’s not a problem (and please feel free to read my (and other) Jena 6 post from last week if you’re unclear on this).
i think equality is one of the most important concepts we have….and it needs to be strongly embraced by everyone. no free passes because it’s your friend or ally committing the act……
I agree completely. But your denial of this very real issue and your earlier acceptance of blacks going to jail for something that you think should not be illegal doesn’t lead me to believe that you really believe what you’re saying here.
@44
And finally, in the last thread, Christmasghost, you mentioned that you have two relatives that would likely benefit from medical marijuana. If they live in California, get them cards. It’s legal there. It helps people (I talk to patients a lot, it’s criminal that people still lie about whether it works). It’s patriotic to disobey an unjust law. That’s what our founding fathers believed and it’s a model for what we need to be doing today.
Ghost,
First, if you really don’t know something, then find out. If you don’t know, then you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, and that’s never a good place to be. There’s plenty of quality information on the internet. Start with an open mind and do some research for yourself. Above all, think critically about everything you read regardless of the source. Wisdom can be found in a variety of places–sometimes very unexpected places.
Second, if you really did intend to place an emphasis on gang activity, then why didn’t it come out that way? Often times, the way we actually say things reflects unconscious attitudes that arise out of ingrained patterns of thought. This is one of the most pernicious aspects of racism, because we’re often just not conscious of the attitudes we’ve carried forward from our social conditioning. Soul searching is never a bad exercise. You don’t have to answer to me as to why your comment came out the way it did, but I think it would do you a world of good to reflect on that question for yourself.
Third, I think saying racism is colorless really serves to obscure a key aspect of the problem: it affects the oppressors and the oppressed in different ways. The oppressors carry an ingrained sense of superiority. The oppressed acquire an almost knee-jerk attitude of suspicion. That’s probably a gross oversimplification, but it provides some important insight into the problem and what we need to do to fix it.
The first insight is that we are all affected by it in some way or another. The problem is so deep and, in many ways, so difficult to fully understand, that anyone who believes himself untouched by it is, for lack of a better word, ignorant. I have racist attitudes, and I’ve spent a lifetime striving to be conscious of those attitudes and rid myself of them as I feel them rise within me. There are times when I wonder if I’ll ever succeed at that endeavor.
The second insight is that we all have to correct the issue within ourselves. This is the point where I think Lee’s tone is as much a part of the problem as anything else. If we’re too busy seeing how racism manifests itself in each other, we’re not spending enough time dealing with it in ourselves.
Lastly, to get back to some of the underlying issues in the discussion, I should point out that I think you’re missing an important part of Lee’s overall point with respect to drug enforcement. Lee is, of course, welcome to correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he makes distinctions among drug-related offenses based on the nature of the offense. For example, marijuana posession is a very different issue than, say, running a meth lab. The distinction Lee makes has to do with the extent to which there are victims in the crime.
In that light, one important question is, why are there so many more marijuana arrests among black offenders than among white offenders? Why should that be at all related to gang activities? I don’t know the answers to those questions, but I think striving to find answers to those questions might well move the discussion along.
Oh, and one last point: Lee’s offense is, in no small part, due to the fact that your own knee-jerk reaction to what Lee’s been saying was to dismiss it all as just another bunch of liberal rambling. You began by dissing Lee in just about the same way you’ve off-handedly dissed liberal ideas as you’ve jumped into every other thread in which you’ve chosen to participate. Not exactly the way to carry on a well-reasoned discussion of the issues, don’t you think?
Well, anything having to do with Coulter definitely is ICK@100%.
@48
Doe Joe,
I appreciate your thoughts here, as always. The thing that bothered me the most is that we’ve actually gone through this before. About 4-5 months ago, I posted about the racial disparity in drug law enforcement, and she attacked me. As a response, I got her to demonstrate her own race-based hypocrisy by showing a video from the show Cops where they were arresting black people for buying bags of marijuana (not selling, buying). She went from complaining about how stupid it was for marijuana to be illegal to being strongly supportive of what she saw on the video (the officers actually tackled the suspects after they made their very small purchases). I asked her if she’d be as supportive of those actions if it was her own son buying a bag of weed, and she wouldn’t answer that question until this past week, when she once again got hysterical in the other thread when someone brought up the racial disparity in law enforcement arrests.
Now she’s saying that she’d be supportive of the police tackling her son and sending him to jail for something that she thinks shouldn’t be illegal in the first place. You and I obviously know what would really happen in that case, but I’ve learned not to expect too much in the way of honesty or consistency from her. I think the biggest problem I have with Christmasghost is that despite the fact that I (and others) completely broke down her nonsense 4-5 months ago (and she ended up conceding to some extent that we’re right), she’d hit the reset button and was screaming at someone saying the exact same thing again. She’s a drone, programmed to attack “liberals” out of fear. That fear is manufactured by the Ann Coulters, Bill O’Reillys and Sean Hannitys of the world, and a very big part of that fear comes from a belief that African-Americans are a criminal class. And having dated someone in high school whose mother behaved exactly the same way, I’ve long been holding back telling her that she’s also avoiding reality when it comes to her niece (something that several of us initially helped her spread the word about, even though some of us knew she was believing in certain things because she wanted to rather than dealing with reality as it is).
You may not believe this, but I feel sorry for her. And I think that her intense hatred of “liberals” is just one symptom of much bigger problems.