Tonight on “The David Goldstein Show”, 7PM to 10PM on Newsradio 710-KIRO:
7PM: Does the US have an immigration problem, or a Mexican problem?
The Immigration Reform Act failed to pass the US Senate when President Bush failed to get his own party to support his own compromise bill. Meanwhile, an amendment did pass this week making English our “official language.” Do we really have an illegal immigration problem, or is the problem with immigration in general? Or is it just a problem with those Spanish-speaking brown people in particular?
8PM: Filing deadline shenanigans?
Richard Pope a Democrat? Scott Noble or Jim Nobles? Yesterday was the filing deadline for the November election, and former Stranger writer Sandeep Kaushik comes into the studio to talk about some last minute surprises, and some surprisingly exciting races. Kinda “The Stranger Hour” once removed.
9PM: What’s up down in Oregon?
Fellow blogger TJ from Loaded Orygun joins me by phone for our monthly conversation about what’s going down, South of the border. A scandal that isn’t and some bipartisanship that shouldn’t be, tops the list of topics. Plus we ask the critical question: are Portlanders too polite?
Tune in tonight (or listen to the live stream) and give me a call: 1-877-710-KIRO (5476).
PROGRAMMING NOTE:
Tune in tomorrow night when guests include Democratic candidate for King County Prosecutor Bill Sherman, Colbert Report star Rep. Adam Smith and blogger TRex from Fire Dog Lake.
I’d counter that rather than having a immigration problem or a Mexican problem what we have here is a mainstreaming of far right hate and zenophobia problem.
Yeah, yeah. Until society shows compassion to the US taxpayer everyone else can take a flying leap.
@2
Put down the meth and the 12 year old boy and get some sleep.
Democrats like to call the repubs many names including”cheap Labor conservatives”. I wonder when they are going to put their money where their mouth is?
Same crime, no time?
I agree. People who lie under oath should go to jail and newspapers should continue to highlight untruths. Libby should get the same punishment as Bill Clinton. Bill did go to jail didn’t he?
— Steve Tate , Olympia
Yeah, true, lying about a blow job is the same as national security
Rufus @ 5,
I realize it is difficult for a wingnut like you to understand this, but Libby was indicted and convicted of perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements.
Clinton was neither indicted nor convicted of any of these. (And you are lying to yourself if you think Star would have passed over indicting Clinton if he actually had evidence to convict him). Clinton was “politically indicted” (i.e. impeached) on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice but, after a Senate trial, was acquitted on both counts.
In other words, Libby was convicted of committing a series of crimes. Clinton was not. That’s why Libby is sentenced to jail and Clinton was not.
Hello.
I think the high-profile case we had in our state involving the British man who was here illegally here who killed his ex-girlfriend at the UW shows that it is not just a mexican issue. The thing is it is easier to make it out as SOLEY a ‘brown’ issue because than it is easy to paint people against illegal immigration as a buch of bigots and racists. The fact is illegal is illegal is illegal, no matter the nationality or skin color.
On a related topic, I have never understood the argument for allowing illegal immigrants to not be found is that they ‘do jobs that no one else will do’ and ‘Are you willing to pay five bucks for a head of lettuce then?’ implying that because they are paid so cheaply, we are able to benefit. Now aren’t most of the people who argue with that line of logic the SAME people who complain our minimum wage is not NEARLY high enough? So in effect, you are saying that if they are American citizens or in the country legally, they should be paid more, but if they are illegal, we should treat them as basically the new class of indentured servants? Maybe if we all stop living the Walmart philosophy (gimme cheap, damn the consequences) we can give better salaries for those jobs no American wants, and as it has shown in the past, Americans will start taking said jobs.
Just my two cents.
Domo
7
So you are saying it was just a legal technicality. I guess democrats get away with crime. No news there, it’s been going on for years. Thanks for clearing that up.
K says:
Yeah, true, lying about a blow job is the same as national security
06/09/2007 at 9:27 pm
What about National security? Did Libby get convicted for outing a CIA agent? News to me.
Rufus @ 9
“So you are saying it was just a legal technicality.”
No, I am not. I am saying that Clinton was not convicted of perjury, obstruction of justice, or making false statements. Libby was.
Kenneth Starr, apparently, didn’t have the evidence to even support an indictment on such charges against Clinton. Fitzgerald had evidence to indict and convict Libby on 4 such charges.
“I guess democrats get away with crime. No news there, it’s been going on for years. Thanks for clearing that up.”
You can believe whatever you want, Rufus (perhaps it is fascism or totalaranism for you?) But us Americans demand…you know…evidence, indictments and convictions against someone before handing down their sentence.
Rufus @ 10
“What about National security? Did Libby get convicted for outing a CIA agent? News to me.”
No…he was convicted for perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements in a national security investigation. Because of Libby’s obstructions, Fitzgerald was not able to properly investigate and charge someone with a very serious crime—a crime that cost Americans untold millions of dollars and possibly endangered CIA assets.
re 10: Fuck you , moron.
Libby’s gone. Fuckin’crook.
@2 Awww, poor abused taxpayer! Until you bleating fools of the right see fit to stop wasting hundreds of billions a year on militarism, you have zero credibility on taxes.
No one spends as much of the taxpayers’ money as the militarists do.
@4 Another wingnut posing as a “democrat” because no Republican is willing to admit he’s a Republican … can’t blame ’em … the GOP brand name is a little tarnished these days.
@5 Every time I read this kind of tripe, I can’t help but think the current crop of Republicans would have been clamoring for early release of Ted Bundy simply because he was a Republican …
@8 Dear two cents, which is what your opinion is worth, it’s the “owner society” (aka Republicans) who want all that cheap imported labor here.
@9 No, what YOU are saying is that the difference between a guilty verdict and an acquittal is “just a legal technicality.” I hate to tell you this, but you’re probably not law school material.
@10 The material point here is that Libby was convicted by a jury of a felony. Which felony is just a legal technicality.
Dufus is soft on crime.
@8 Whose permission did your ancestors have to come here?
@22 The slave masters permission.
Pelletbreath@22, why did you skip over #8 paragraph one?
Doesn’t fit the Progressive NEW Democrat Party mantra?
Darryl@12: grow up man. If anyone “outed” Valerie Plame is was Richard Armitage, friend of the Moonbat! left. He admitted he was the prime leaker. Google it oh smart one!
Man, when you libtards get a mantra you keep it going no matter where the truth actually takes you! Screw the truth, spread the lies!
Darryl: If Rufus changed his name to Dan Rather why are you not calling him by it?
Otherwise you must call:
Yos Lib Bro – Clueless
Emily Litella, Harry Poon, Col Tucker, Col Biff – Headless Lucy
Why do you disrespect those whose political leanings disagree with yours Darryl? Oh…. that’s right… when yous a libtard disrespect is your game!
Puffybutt sucks Muslim dick cause he’s a traitor and we don’t respect traitors like you Puffy.
Speaking of impeachment: Why not discuss this Hilary Cliton development:
http://tinyurl.com/2uxgzg
A former Federal judge who was impeached for bribery is now the campaign co-chair. Now that would have made great radio. But great radio is not in the cards for Voice of Chalk Scratching.
Speaking of Moonbat! stupidity, here is another radio show item.
http://tinyurl.com/324ctw
At least Seattle isn’t this stupid… or is it?
Show much show content found by Puddybud and so little brain power on the left to comprehend it!
What I like is when “knee-jerk” liberals identify the libtard bias of the MSM.
http://tinyurl.com/ywqt6k
Snippet: “The next paragraph began: “Coburn, whose Web site says he is a doctor specializing in family medicine, obstetrics and allergies . . . .” The Web site attribution of such an easily confirmed fact seems intended to cast doubt on the senator’s medical credentials. Would you report, “Sen. Barack Obama’s Web site says he attended Harvard Law School”?”
Puddy Commentary – No the WaPo would not. Anything said by Moonbat!s is accepted as truth without question. It’s the Progressive NEW Democrat Party way!
Voice of Chalk Scratching: Here is another show item you won’t cover:
http://tinyurl.com/2fm8s7
Looks like Rosie O’Donnell does believe soldiers are terrorists since she posted this on her blog. But she argued on The View something else that Wednesday.
I get sick when I visit her site and view what she has to say. This woman makes me ILL! Notice she doesn’t condemn or correct any of Brendan’s negative comments about the US armed forces. Hmmm…?
WTF? Multi-Dollar Bill Jefferson, NRA foe, owns guns! Priceless!
http://tinyurl.com/2yyccm
Of Course Voice of Chalk Scratching will not cover this on his show since he too is a NRA foe!
Another radio show topic:
http://tinyurl.com/34jmgz
Jimmy Carter helped install Robert Mugabe.
JCH, looks like your “favorite” president helped install your favorite dictator!
“Mugabe became prime minister and was toasted by the international community and media as a new sort of African leader. “I find that I am fascinated by his intelligence, by his dedication. The only thing that frustrates me about Robert Mugabe is that he is so damned incorruptible,” Andrew Young, Jimmy Carter’s ambassador to the United Nations, had gushed to the Times of London in 1978. The rest, as they say, is history.”
Now I say Voice of Chalk Scratching… this is a great show topic. I’d listen for this one… Wait.. will the basketball game broadcast happen at this time?
Another piece for Voice of Chalk Scratching:
Why not discuss Jack Cafferty’s Friday evening show on CNN
“Cafferty: “When it was going this poorly in Vietnam, Americans were in the streets demanding to be heard. Students were tearing up college campuses in an effort to head off being sent away to die for nothing.”
Puddybud commentary – Maybe Jack it’s a volunteer army now?
What a Moonbat!
Why do you disrespect those whose political leanings disagree with yours Darryl?
WTF? YOU GOT A LOT OF NERVE. YOU AND DOOFUS ARE THE MOST INSANE PURVEYORS OF RIGHT WING BULLSHIT HERE.
AFTER GORELICK WALL, ABLE DANGER, MWS YOU THINK YOU DESERVE RESPECT?
AFTER DOOFUS ASKED ABOUT 100 TIMES, NIGHT AFTER NIGHT, “WAS THE JEWKILLER A LIBERAL OR A CONSERVATIVE”, YOU THINK DOOFUS DESERVES RESPECT?
YOU BOTH HAVE FAILED. YOUR CHIMP HAS FAILED. YOUR IDEOLOGY IS BANKRUPT.
YET YOU BOTH CONTINUE BROADCASTING MORE OF THE SAME RIGHT WING LIES. THE REASON IS SIMPLE – YOU ARE INSANE.
WHAT A WINGNUT! HE THINKS GOLDY WILL TAKE ORDER FROM HIM!
LMAO!!!!
Look at all those show topics and Voice of Chalk Scratching doesn’t possess the cojones to put any of these on his show!
Good morning Puddybud.
(responding to post at 6:19. Actually considering a reasoned response takes a bit more time than just tossing out firebombs.)
Since Roger is probably still sleeping, and you pretty obviously didn’t listen to Goldy’s show last night (where Goldy brought up the point in question) I’ll take it.
First, the reason that anti-illegal immigrant groups are portrayed as going after Central/South American illegal immigrants is that those are the people that those groups seem to be most interested in.
Almost nobody in those “secure the borders” groups seems to be coming up here and demanding that Point Roberts be walled off and a ferry run started. We don’t hear about how Canadians are coming down here “taking American jobs”. (It must be because of their health care.)
Since the anti-immigrant groups seem to ignore illegal immigration except when it includes Hispanics, Orientals, and now Muslims, it appears to be at least partially motivated by race.
Before you start, there are a few folks that have spoken out regarding Europeans that have overstayed visas. There actually are a few reasonable folks concerned with immigration. It’s just that the loudest ones only seem to be concerned with the Mexican border, and those are the folks we’re addressing in this topic.
This is one of those subjects that finds Democrats somewhat conflicted. Let’s face facts. Those illegal immigrants (and I think the term “undocumented” is a bit silly) are here to take jobs that farmers cannot fill any other way.
Those workers are certainly being taken advantage of. Low wages, poor working conditions, and no way of complaining or organizing to deal with the situation.
So, what should we do? Deport 12 million (the current estimate) people? Cripple the economy? Leave the jobs unfilled when there are people willing (heck, wanting) to fill them?
Should we keep abusing these folks, providing substandard wages and working conditions in order to bolster the US agriculture industry?
I’d like to say that I’ll be the first to admit that I do not have the answers, but lots of folks have already admitted as much. Many of them are in Congress. This isn’t meant as a put-down. Lots of people are trying to find good answers, and it may well be that there aren’t any.
But many of the folks proposing answers seem to be more concerned with race than with immigration status, and in my not-so-humble opinion, those folks are making the issue even more difficult to deal with. This problem is thorny enough without adding racism to the mix.
And for once I can give a short answer.
Puddybud. I also own guns, and yet I still think that the NRA is a bunch of knee-jerk wingnuts.
The two positions are not incompatible.
Or for a real shocker Voice of Chalk Scratching why not discuss this latest Gallup Poll:
http://tinyurl.com/2qharx
Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design
For clarity, back in 1999: http://tinyurl.com/2c486
81% want creation to be taught in public schools only 9% believe in the “theory of evolution”
Puddybud – your link doesn’t work.
John Barelli: I disagree. The bill needs better protections and better sections. Did you know the Moonbat!s killed a proposed amendment to make the bill better? It would not allow convicted felons to be allowed in, yet Moonbat!s wanted this!
Then the NY Times mischaracterizes an amendment to it: http://tinyurl.com/2qqenn
John, which one?
(that would be the http://tinyurl.com/2c486 link)
http://tinyurl.com/2ofs58
Looks like only the Moonbat! of the FUWA, The NorthWest Division of Voice of Chalk Scratching Lunatic Moonbat!s hates the SCOTUS!
Here is what I could find for 1999:
“POLL ANALYSES
August 30, 1999
Americans Support Teaching Creationism as Well as Evolution in Public Schools
Divided on origins of human species
by David W. Moore
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
PRINCETON, NJ – Although some leaders in the scientific community have expressed stunned dismay at the willingness of both leading presidential contenders, Texas Governor George W. Bush and Vice-President Al Gore, to support the teaching of creationism in public schools, recent Gallup polls confirm that Americans are in favor of that policy by a substantial margin. At the same time, they are divided on how human beings came into existence.
According to a Gallup poll conducted June 25-27 of this year, Americans favor teaching creationism in the public schools, along with evolution, by a margin of 68% to 29%. However, by a margin of 55% to 40%, they would oppose replacing evolution with creationism.
Despite public support for teaching those subjects in public schools, most Americans do not believe them to be crucial to a person’s education. According to the most recent Gallup poll, conducted August 24-26, only 28% of Americans say evolution should be a required subject and 49% say it should be an elective. Similarly, 25% say creationism should be required and 56% say it should be an elective. The number who would ban either course from the classroom is 21% for evolution and 16% for creationism. By contrast, 83% of Americans believe that computer training should be a required subject, while 76% would require courses on alcohol and drug abuse prevention, 69% on drivers education, and 60% on sex education — among other subjects.
Americans’ support for teaching both creationism and evolution could reflect their divergent views on how the human species came into existence. According to the most recent Gallup poll, 47% of Americans believe that God created human beings at one time within the last 10,000 years pretty much in their present form, while 49% believe that human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, including 40% who say that God guided the process, and 9% who say that God had no part in the process. This pattern of responses is essentially unchanged from the three previous times it was asked — first in 1982, and then again in 1993 and 1997.
Views on evolution highly related to age and education
Older and less educated Americans are more likely to reject evolution than are the younger and more educated population groups. American adults under the age of 30, for example, accept either one of the two evolutionary explanations for the origins of human beings (either guided by God or not) by a margin of 56% to 42%, very similar to the pattern of responses in the 30-49 age group (53% to 44%). However, the 50-64 age group is about evenly divided on the issue, with 47% who accept evolution and 50% who say God created human beings about 10,000 years ago. And among Americans 65 and older, only 33% accept evolution, while 60% reject it.
Americans’ level of education is also closely related to beliefs about evolution, with only 41% of non-college Americans accepting evolution and 55% rejecting it. Americans with “some” college, by contrast, favor evolution by a 50% to 45% margin, compared with a 58% to 41% margin of support among college graduates, and a 66% to 30% margin of support among those with some post-graduate education.
Survey Methods
The results reported in this article are based on two Gallup polls, both with telephone interviews of a randomly selected national sample of about 1,000 adults, 18 years and older. The most recent poll was conducted August 24-26, 1999, while the other Gallup poll was conducted June 25-27, 1999. For results based on sample of this size, one can say with 95 percent confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is plus or minus 3 percentage points. In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls. “
HEY PWHACKO. R’MEMBER WHEN YOU PURVEYED THE ACVR BULLSHIT?
TRY CLICKIN’ ON IT NOW!
http://WWW.AC4VR.COM
LOSIN’, LOSIN’ LOSIN’!!!
Teaching creationism ALONG WITH evolution in public schools
Favor 68%
Oppose 29
No opinion 3
100%
Teaching creationism INSTEAD OF evolution in public schools
Favor 40%
Oppose 55
No opinion 5
100%
Next, I’m going to read you some areas of instruction the high schools might offer. Please say whether you think each one should be required instruction, could be offered as an elective but should not be required, or should not be taught at all. How about…
The theory of evolution
Required 28%
Offered but not required 49
Not offered at all 21
No opinion 2
100%
The theory of creationism
Required 25%
Offered but not required 56
Not offered at all 16
No opinion 3
100%
Which of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings —
99 Aug 97 Nov 93 Jun 1982
Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process. 40% 39% 35% 38%
Human beings have developed over millions of years from lessadvanced forms of life. God had no part in this process. 9 10 11 9
God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.
—————47 44 47 44
No opinion 4 7 7 9
100% 100% 100% 100%
Cluelessman@47: Server not found
BTW Cluelessman: You used the AVCR link 4 times in the last five days. Nothing new? Nothing original?
Come on “Sitting Bull” – you have to do better!
John Barelli: What interests me is the lack of candor by the libtard MSM on the Moonbat! issues with the immigration bill.
Hmmm…?
Look at all the original content and ideas I gave Voice of Chalk Scratching above for his Sunday edition of his radio show.
This is the difference between you and me. I search the ‘Net for original content and you regurgitate the same old crap over and over and over!
WHACKO, YOU’RE INSANE AS USUAL!!
IF THAT CREATIONISM/ID BULLCRAP WAS SO POPULAR HOW COME IT FAILED IN KANSAS? WHERE ELSE DID IF FAIL, PA?
I REMEMBER SOME JUDGE SAID THAT ID CRAP WAS JUST WARMED OVER RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT!
IF PARENTS WANT THAT CRAP TAUGHT TO THEIR KIDS THEY CAN PAY FOR IT OR DO IT THEMSELVES!
BTW: Did any of those references come with Richard Scaife or Rupert Murdoch or Sun Moon as the owners?
Damn, another argument shot to death by Puddy!
Right now Cluelessman is using the Stink Progress, Media Morons or Daily Kurse sites for rebuttal.
URL Cluelessman URL.
It isn’t failing in Georgia. BTW Cluelessman why are you out of step with the American public. Living in FUWA demented your mind?
OK, TRY THIS ONE:
http://WWW.AC4VR.COM
the original content and ideas
RIGHT-WING BULLSHIT! IS GOLDY A THREAT TO YOU PWHACKO? ALL YOUR FELLOW WINGNUTS SAID HIS SHOW WOULD FLOP!
HE’S BEEN ON THE AIR OVER A YEAR NOW!
YOU AND FELLOW WINGNUTS ARE WRONG AGAIN!
Cluelessman: Delbert politely asked you to stop “SHOUTING” your responses. Seriously, you have issues!
It isn’t failing in Georgia
WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED? WHAT WAS THAT SONG?
THAT’S WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT IN GEORGIA?
THE LIGHTS IN PEOPLE’S BRAINS OF COURSE! HOW MUCH PORK DO THEY CONSUME IN GA PWHACKO? IS IT ALL THE PORK RINDS THAT BUSH SR. LOVES SO MUCH DECAYING THEIR BRAINS?
WHO’S DELBERT? OH YEAH ANOTHER WINGNUT FULL OF RIGHT WING BULLSHIT!
THINKS THAT EGO-MANIAC, WINGNUT SHARANSKY WALKS ON WATER!
Cluelessman: Do I think Voice of Chalk Scratching is a threat to anyone? I never wrote it. I wrote I wouldn’t be listening to it. KIRO decided it needed to knee-jerk libtard on the radio so be it!
But in the interest of fairness I do give him topics to see if he has the cojones to be objective!
But cluelessman: I used all std MSM sites for todays missives and you can’t attack them, so you attack me.
Typical! Typical. That’s why when PacMan posts he adds don’t shoot the messenger!
ROSIE O’DONNEL? THAT’S ORIGINAL ALL RIGHT! ALL YOU WINGNUTS HAVE BEEN TEARING YOUR HAIR OUT ABOUT HER FOR WEEKS!
OK LET’S SAY SHE DOESN’T HAVE A TENTH ON THE BALL AS OPRAH’S GOT. THEN WHY YOU BOTHERIN’?
‘CUZ YOU’RE A BUNCH OF STUPID SHEEP, THAT’S WHY!
BTW Cluelessman: Why are you against voter ID? Other countries have VID laws.
Didn’t the U.S. Supreme Court vote unanimously to overturn the Ninth Circus Court’s decision barring the enforcement of an Arizona voter ID law?
Gosh Cluelessman: I posted what Rosie said, didn’t say and what she accepts in her blog. IT IS WHAT SHE SAID THAT COUNTS!
Getting back to John Barelli and immigration. What color were the Ft Dix Six?
Why are you against voter ID?
‘CUZ WE HAVE A RIGHT TO VOTE STUPID! WE DON’T HAVE A RIGHT TO A DRIVER’S LICENSE OR A COSMETOLOGY LICENSE!
THE VOTER ID LAWS ARE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO KEEP POOR PEOPLE FROM VOTING! IT’S A POLL TAX! THAT’S WHAT A JUDGE IN GEORGIA (YOUR FAVORITE STATE) SAID WHEN HE STRUCK DOWN THEIR STOOPID VOTER ID LAW!
YOUR PARTY PRACTICES CAGING PWHACKO! IT WANTS TO KEEP AFRICAN AMERICANS FROM VOTING! IT WANTS TO WIPE AFRICAN AMERICAN SOLDIERS FROM THE ROLLS! IT’S COMING OUT!
HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR AND SUPPORT THIS CORRUPT PARTY WHO WILL TAKE AWAY PEOPLE’S RIGHTS TO CLING TO POWER?
YOS LIB BRO says “AFTER GORELICK WALL”:
So Mary Jo White and Colleen Rowley are crazed whack jobs Cluelessman?
ABLE DANGER: It was a real program which the inspector’s office agreed in 2006.
Man Clueless, you surely don’t let facts get in your way of your continuous drool!
Cluelessman: Are you against the Social Security ID?
Did you know if someone starts drawing on your Social Security you have no recourse against it except to try and prove you are the original Cluelessman?
Hmmm… I like that… the original Cluelessman!
68 – YOU STILL TRYING TO PUSH THAT BULL? WHAT DID SLADE GORTON SAY AGAIN: “THERE WAS NO WALL”.
IN THE MOONIE TIMES!
HEY YOU VOTED FOR HIM, I DIDN’T.
AND YEAH ABLE DANGER EXISTED BUT IT DIDN’T IDENTIFY ATTA AND THE BOTTOM LINE:
9/11 HAPPENED ON BUSH’S WATCH. YOU CAN’T HANG IT ON BILL CLINTON! BUSH AND CONDI HAD PLENTY OF WARNING AND THEY IGNORED IT.
SORRY PWHACKJOB.. FAILED AGAIN!
Are you against the Social Security ID?
I’M AGAINST ANYTHING THAT RIGHT WING WHACKJOBS (THAT YOU SUPPORT AND SUCK UP TO) CAN USE TO TAKE AWAY PEOPLE’S RIGHTS IN ORDER TO TAKE POWER!
Puddybud (at 8:24)
What does that do with anything I wrote?
Perhaps I could connect it by saying that if those folks that keep talking about building a “Berlin Wall” style border with Mexico would actually concern themselves with actual immigration problems, we might be able to solve some of the problems and keep actual terrorists out of the country.
But, just to answer your questions, apparently three of them were from Yugoslavia (illegally), one from Turkey (legally) and two were home-grown.
And there may be some interesting issues coming up with the prosecution of the conspirators. At least one of them apparently reported the conspiracy to a local police department. It appears that he reported that the FBI informant was pressuring him to get maps of Fort Dix for the attack.
There is apparently some evidence that the FBI informant was acting as the ringleader. This may be a very interesting trial.
Golly Cluelessman: Colleen Rowley said they came in before Bush. But don’t let that stop you drool!
John Barelli: As a descendant of slave immigrants I want all immigration checked. I feel all administrations from Carter onward have treated good Haitians badly along with other dark Caribbean peoples!
John Barelli@72: Yeah I read that somewhere too. I will be interesting. I think it will be another dagger into how the FBI since JE Hoover days uses some interesting tactics to get people to commit something.
When I lived in NYS the state police had a fast car they would use to entice people to drag race. When they passed 55 MPH, bam a cruiser would show up and ticket would appear! When someone took them to court and claimed entrapment the car disappeared!
Cluelessman: Since you didn’t VOTE FOR Slade how can you use his words? If his politics were abhorrent to you then how can you claim his latter words are prophetic?
Hypocritical?
Puddybud said:
From his link ( http://tinyurl.com/2qharx ):
and
Puddybud, don’t you think that if you’re going to cite specific figures in your post, that those figures should at least agree with your references?
Enough fun. I’ve got to get ready for church.
Golly Cluelessman since you brought it up: If we had followed up on immigration and could check their status Mohammad Atta when he was stopped for a traffic violation would have been deported.
” “It was a routine traffic stop,” said Broward County Sheriff Ken Jenne, “but let’s say we found flight information there. That would not have been probable cause” to charge Atta with a crime.
And, in a state where big-city judicial systems groan under heavy case loads, the warrant for Atta’s arrest was ignored.
Deputies never learned that Atta reportedly was on a U.S. government “watch list” of people tied to terrorist activity.”
http://tinyurl.com/22cguk
But don’t let facts get in the way of your drool “Sitting Bull”.
Last tidbit.
Puddybud said:
I can’t argue that point. If you want to make the case that our immigration policies have been screwed up for many years over both Democratic and Republican administrations, then you will get no argument from me.
Nice selective choice of topics you want John. I can do that too:
If the public schools in your community taught the theory of evolution, — that is, the idea that human beings evolved from other species of animals — would you be upset, or not?
2005 Mar 21-23
Yes, would — No, would not —No opinion
—34% —————- 63% ————–3%
If the public schools in your community taught the theory of creationism — that is, the idea that human beings were created by God in their present form and did not evolve from other species of animals — would you be upset, or not?
2005 Mar 21-23
Yes, would — No, would not — No opinion
–22% ——————-76% ———– 2%
But you ignore the graph in the first page.
God Created Man in present form
1982 – 44%
2007 – 43%
Man developed with God guiding
1982 – 38%
2007 – 38%
1982 – 82% said God had a part
2007 – 81% said God has a part
Yipe. On my way out the door, so please excuse typos.
Puddybud. You said “81% want creation to be taught in public schools”.
Far different from “did God have a part in man’s development”.
I don’t want public schools to teach creationism, and yet I believe that God is the ultimate designer of mankind. No conflict.
Had you said “81% believe that God is the ultimate designer of the universe, and that mankind is a special creation of God” then I wouldn’t have argued at all.
On an earlier thread regarding the Discovery Institute, I managed to wax somewhat poetic about it, and I don’t have time to re-write, so I’ll do a cut-and-paste.
re 25: …and being the responsible adults that they are, Libby, Cheney, and Rove immediaitely tried to hush Armitage’s mistake.
Oh, they didn’t do that? They used it as an excuse to trumpet over the whole fucking globe that Plame was an undercover CIA operative?
Grow up, asshole.
SORRY PUDDY:
YOU CAN’T HANG 9/11 ON BILL CLINTON.
YOU CAN’T HANG 9/11 ON BILL CLINTON.
9/11 HAPPENED ON THE CHIMP’S WATCH.
9/11 HAPPENED ON THE CHIMP’S WATCH.
CONDI AND THE CHIMP IGNORED THE WARNINGS.
CONDI AND THE CHIMP IGNORED THE WARNINGS.
THE CHIMP COULDN’T BE BOTHERED WITH THE COLE.
THE CHIMP COULDN’T BE BOTHERED WITH THE COLE.
ANY MENTION OF ABLE DANGER OR GORELICK WALLS IS JUST RIGHT WING BULLSHIT DEFLECTION FROM THE FACTS!
© St. Petersburg Times,
published September 16, 2001
TALLAHASSEE — When Mohamed Atta was stopped by a Broward County sheriff’s deputy last April, he couldn’t produce a driver’s license. A week later, he had one.
SORRY PUDDY.
THAT HAPPENED ON THE CHIMPANZEE’S WATCH!
HE COULDN’T BE BOTHERED. YOU FAILED AGAIN.
I rest my case. Cluelessman can’t figure it out it was the Gorelick wall which didn’t allow the Broward County Police to BE ABLE TO CHECK ON ATTA’S STATUS.
Cluelessman, you are a dull knife. Stupid and Clueless to this day!
86 – IF IT WAS SO BAD THEN WHY DIDN’T THE CHIMP TEAR IT DOWN?
‘CUZ I QUOTE SLADE GORTON: “THERE WAS NO WALL”.
PWHACKJOB SHREDDED AGAIN!