I was talking to The Stranger’s Josh Feit yesterday afternoon, and he was little worried. The folk at Town Hall had moved the Sims v. Hutch debate upstairs into the big room –apparently to accommodate the camera crews — and Josh was concerned that the audience might look embarrassingly small in the thousand-seat auditorium. “What if only twelve people show up?” he asked me. I assured him that I’d be there to make it a baker’s dozen.
As it turned out, I barely got in. A large, raucous crowd filled the auditorium, including an enthusiastic cheering section for Hutcherson’s Antioch Bible Church. I’d never seen so many queer people in one place… and there were a lot of gays and lesbians there too. This was one, pumped up crowd… more like the audience you might expect for a superstar comedian than a political debate. And judging from the audience reaction, The Stranger may have stumbled upon the greatest debating act since Timothy Leary v. G. Gordon Liddy.
They were loud, they were passionate, they were in your face… and that was just the audience. A steady wave of cheers, jeers, hisses, catcalls, laughter and groans rolled across the audience towards the dueling orators on stage. Both men received several standing ovations from their admirers. Both men seemed to genuinely enjoy the fierce debate.
This was politics the way it should be: raw, energetic… and entertaining. If all political rallies, all political events, all political debates were as much fun as this, we’d have 95 percent voter turnout… we’d have the nation’s youth clamoring to get involved. Politics wouldn’t just be more fun… it’d be downright cool.
Anyway, I’m not going to get into the details, but Michael has great coverage over at BlatherWatch, Will throws in a few pithy observations of his own, and the Seattle P-I does its darnedest to make the whole affair sound typically boring. I’m told the Seattle Channel shot the event, and if you get the chance, I highly recommend watching for yourself.
I’ll just sum up the Battle in Seattle by saying that I thought Sims kicked Hutch’s ass. (But then, I’m biased.) The topic was gay civil rights, and Hutch and his “church folk” wanted to make it a theological debate. It’s not, and Sims wouldn’t bite.
I’d love to see both men get a chance to hone their rhetoric by going at it a couple more times, but if all Hutcherson has to back up his public policy is the Christian Bible, then he really doesn’t deserve having his public profile raised any further… and Sims shouldn’t help him raise it.
I doubt many minds were changed last night, but it sure was fun. And that’s something you don’t often get to say about politics.
“The funniest part is: this ultra-conservative, right-wing Christian, neo-CONVICT, whack job is going to understand what “Tookie Williams” style means by someone who looks like Tookie.” [GBS] [Did you make the “Tookie Williams style” comment up, or did you steal it from someone far smarter than you???????????]
Hutch is insane.
Democrats Cynthia McKinney/Maxine Waters 2008!!! If you don’t support this ticket you are racist and the brothers will burn down your neighborhood.
LOS ANGELES – Federal officials on Friday raided a squalid house and found 70 illegal immigrants and four suspected smugglers, authorities said. Federal agents and a sheriff’s SWAT team entered the house about 6 a.m., setting off flash-bang grenades as a diversion because there was concern that some of the immigrants were being held hostage, said Frank Johnston, an assistant special agent in charge with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. [70 new Democrat votes for 2006!!! Where will the Democrats bus them???????]
Nineteen people, including five former police officers, have been criminally charged in connection with a string of daring and sometimes violent robberies…SNIP…Palomares, Moya, Duran, Moon, Loaiza and the Ferguson brothers, Armando Contreras-Lopez, 35, of Paramount; Gabriel Loaiza, 30, of Montebello; Michelle Barajas, 38, of Paramount; David Barajas, 32, of Paramount; Jessica Treat, 31, of Whittier; Jesus Estrada Dominguez, 40; Pablo Estrada, 29, of La Puente; Manuel Hernandez, 25, of Pico Rivera……
Nineteen people, including five former police officers, have been criminally charged in connection with a string of daring and sometimes violent robberies…SNIP…Palomares, Moya, Duran, Moon, Loaiza and the Ferguson brothers, Armando Contreras-Lopez, 35, of Paramount; Gabriel Loaiza, 30, of Montebello; Michelle Barajas, 38, of Paramount; David Barajas, 32, of Paramount; Jessica Treat, 31, of Whittier; Jesus Estrada Dominguez, 40; Pablo Estrada, 29, of La Puente; Manuel Hernandez, 25, of Pico Rivera……
5….cont, Lots of new Democrats at play!!! They are “only doing the jobs that American blacks on welfare and food stamps in Section 8 Housing won’t do”!!!!!!! [hehe]
From your description,Goldy, I am put in mind of the Lincoln-Douglas debates ‘on the stumps’.
But I also heed your concern that the American Taliban do not need any more of a megaphone.
Let’s rent a field and have a Fascists v. Liberals rumble! Anything goes, no restrictions on weapons …
Goldy,
At least Hutch doesn’t sound like a rat with a carrot stuffed up his ass. Ron Sims sounded like Kim Jong Ill in Team America.
No one bought the “I’m from Racist Spokane, I know oppression when I see it” bit from Uncle Ronnie.
You’re right about the forum, the more of these the merrier! The Stranger and whoever else is willing, should put on at least one of these a week, and not an obvious “straw man”.
@ 10
Spokane is a racist, homophobic shithole, says this man.
Also, he explains how Spokane can’t seem to do anything right, like keep famous gem of a bar open.
oops
“like keep a famous gem of a bar open”
KCTS or KBTC should show it for those of us with satelite or outside of the city. It would be great to see it.
I hear that Hutch got caught giving his bodyguard a blowjob in the bathroom after Sims cleaned his clock! Christians suck! Literally! HE HE!
JDB,
Look here over the next several days, it’s sure to be up at some point.
http://www.seattlechannel.org/
Up online that is. You’ll be able to watch it on your computer.
Hutch sayz: “I’m OK with homosexuals, but I hate homosexuality”.
AssTake: In the spirit of Christian charity, not a very strong argument.
Deductive Points: Quoting Leviticus is only good with believers. What does this mean to Hindus? Bhuddists? Muslims? Unitarians? Masons?
Moral: Examine assumptions carefully, grasshopper.
“No one bought the “I’m from Racist Spokane, I know oppression when I see it” bit from Uncle Ronnie.”
That, sir\madam is an absolute fucking lie. You hid food you didn’t like under your plate when you were a kid, didn’t you?
“No one bought the “I’m from Racist Spokane, I know oppression when I see it” bit from Uncle Ronnie.”
You didn’t witness the debate, did you? You didn’t even bother to watch the replay. Just stick to the talking points, the script never lies. Stalin would be proud. I hear there are a lot of those “hero of the Soviet Union” medals for sale now. You want one?
“I doubt many minds were changed last night…..”
The accurancy of this statement most likely exceeds 90 per cent. Assuming, of course, there were minds available to change.
OK right wing trollfucks. There is the straight line. Run with it.
What a sad and comic scene:
Black Rev: And God said, let there be no buggery! So, God’s children should love the buggers but shun their bugs.
Black Pol: Freedom! We must accept what our fellows do unto each other willingly. Unless, of course it is demeaning, insulting, or blasphemous!
Black Rev: How can you cite Blasphemy! I am the Word, sayeth the Lord.
Black Pol: But the Word must be made Whole and it JesUS is made whole in the life of tolerance and acceptance.
Isreali in the audience: And THIS is more important than Iraq?
Chavesista: Anyone here care for some cheap oil?
Mike MCGavick: Thanks boys.
Seattle School Kid: (White wires to her ears) hmmddidy hmmdiddy.
Relevant quotes?
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.
Leviticus 20:9
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
“If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?”
— anon
After last night’s debate, the reputation of Messieurs Lincoln and Douglas is secure.
— Edward R. Murrow
Two grown men sitting in front of an audience discussing their superstition.
Ho Hum.
It is interesting how many posters from both the left and the right think male-male rape is OK.
HO, ho, ho.
Rape is rape. A crime of violence – not overheated sexual charm, I have had it to the gills with all the sour, vapid and vilely stupid jokes.
And of course, the subtext, all that supression from you all, hey- go act out your fantasy, see some porn, kiss another male and propose sex – you will feel better, and better understand male-male rape is a very sick joke and a crime.
Had enough of this garbage to last a lifetime. Shame.
Bobby–
Lighten up asshole!!!
You are going to be so uptight for your date tonight, you won’t be able to pull a pin out of yer ass with a John Deere Tractor much less receive “le boner”!
So tell us Bobby….are you actually PROUD of doing the things you do with other fella’s???
Bobby–
Are you so PROUD of what you do as a Gay Male that it is somehow worthy of a PARADE??
Hey, I gotta a serious question for you….
Have you ever had serious hemorhoids dude??
How about a big old rash of cankers in yer mouth??
Just because someone feels inclined to do something, doesn’t mean he should. You feelings as a “Gay Male” is one thing…..acting on those feelings is called a CHOICE!
Grow up.
Oink!!!
Please meet me, Rufus and Mike Webb Sucks (!) at Mr. Cynical’s ranch in Enumclaw.
Our Dear Leader is there now!
HURRY!!!!
“Are you so PROUD of what you do as a Gay Male that it is somehow worthy of a PARADE??”
Can’t these morons ever get their noses our of other people’s pants?
Let’s face it … if they didn’t spend all of their free time obsessing about what other adults did in their bedrooms, they might have to think about how empty their own relationships are.
Is it a new thing for right wing trollers to make 3 or 4 posts in a row? That is so wrong. STICK TO TALKING IN CAPITAL LETTERS!!! THAT’S THE WAY TO DO IT!!!
In a more serious vein, I was actually pretty surprised and happy to hear about this debate. It really is a good sign that both sides can find representatives these days who are not only willing to talk about their situation but are willing to share time to listen to the other person. It doesn’t mean they even have to be open to changing their mind (but bonus points if they are) but the debate these days really seems so often to be between some one on one side of an issue and someone on the same side of an issue but not as extreme, such as having a Republican and Joe Lieberman on the same talk show.
I hope they have more debates.
I’ve been sitting on Sunday night watching the broadcast of the debate on cable TV, and the whole thing seems to keep running in circles, with both men making the same arguments over and over again. The problem appears to be one of semantics–sooner or later we’re going to have to come to grips that the term “marriage” in many if not most religions, means a different thing than it does in civil law. For the time being, churches are probably going to have to be allowed to refer to gay marriages as “civil unions”, unsatisfactory as this may be to some. Presently the Catholic church doesn’t recognize people as “married” unless they were married in the church itself. It would be presumptious to require that it do so–but not to ask it to butt out of the **civil** benefits (health care, right of survivorship, etc) that are accorded to partners in **civil** marriage.
Ron was clearly wearing his civil-servant’s hat here, and as such he’s treating civil marriage as a civil right. Hutcherson can’t accept that–he’s very clear that he wants to make “God’s law” (as he understands it) the universal law of the land–and yeah, he seems to be someone who sits up at night thinking about all those nasty people doing those kinky things and how they must be stopped.
At one point, Hutcherson asserted straight out his belief that what the framers of the Constitution meant by separation of church and state is strictly one-way–that the government may not impose its dictates on churches, but that it’s just fine for a church, if it can, to impose whatever it wants on the government and everyone living under it. Of course, he’s absolutely certiain that he and his posse are up for the job. If you’re OK with that, more power to you. I know I’m not.