Genesis 2:25
Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
Discuss.
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Thats because they hadn’t invented porn yet.
Or religion, for that matter
goldy….please, for the love of god and our eyesight, keep your clothes on.
They had TSA screenings back then?
Why would they feel shame? There were two of them, a married couple.
True, a bigger issue is whether they were married? While Judaism teaches that two people marry each other, the busy bees of theophilia have anointed priests with that in My name. The marry function is especially disturbing to me when some sects claim that only celibate men can marry others but denies these celibates the right to marry each other.
This is not logical, it can not follow My law.
I am that I am, means that I am the underlying logic of your world. Humans, sadly, often can not see Me, that is can not see logic.
To tell the truth, I don’t need priests to marry folks. Just one of those things, like keeping gravity working, that I do for all of you.
I am that I am.
Because they had not yet consumed the Apple products….
Darryl,
You may well be becoming My prophet, such wisdom.
Hmmm ..
Is there an analogy here?
The bitten apple, the symbol at once of knowledge and foolishness.
The bitten apple is alike to the man on a cross? A religious symbol? Does it refer to man’s fall from an animal like naivete?
I am that I am
Shame is an acquired emotion that varies with aculturation.
Leaving aside the skid marks on furniture and the cold, being naked is only a problem if you give any weight to what the sphincter challenged prigs who wrote this verse say.
Of course, just to emphasize how truly frightened they are of human sexuality, they put “nonbiblical” sex right up there with murder on the sin scale.
As with so many other biblical precepts (including last week’s verse which pointed out that kings could fuck whoever and however they want as long as it doesn’t lead to worship of some other god), listening to them would be really stupid.
And why should they (feel shame)?
I think that perhaps shame over the body, and by extension, sexuality, is one of the most perverse and destructive of the shackles enforced by religion.
Think about it – what’s more intimate and personal than one’s own body, and how our physicality gives and receives pleasure. It’s at the core of one’s being.
Imagine how making that bad, internalizing the notion that we are inherently evil and dirty and wrong profoundly destabilizes people, makes them profoundly insecure and lacking – and opens the door to control, by providing the ‘cure’ from outside of one’s self – by having to deny one’s self for ‘salvation’.
Perverse.
@8 LS
You mistake Christianity for all religion.
Augustine and Paul were, by My lights, perverts.
Most of man’s religions celebrate the polarity of gender. You might read the Song of Songs, the Mahabarahta, the Gita, the Kama Sutra, or any of the stories of Dionysus.
My lights, by the way, are divine … as divine as the thrill of orgasm or the greater thrill of a new birth.
I am that I am
@9
Really God?
So it’s only Christians that have repressed gender/sexuality issues? What about these guys? Aren’t these guys on SJ’s team?
But yeah, I take your point, I may have painted with too broad a brush.
It’s official, 2012 apocalypse a myth, Rapture to occur on May 21, 2011:
http://articles.sfgate.com/201.....me-camping
Good riddance!
In this one Goldy is expressing jealousy that a man can be naked in front of a woman without feeling shame.
Payback is a bitch! An atheist fights back against those perky Mormon missionaries who knock on your door before noon on Saturday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
@13
That was HYSTERICAL!!
should we now assume that goldy walks around naked in front of his daughter?
just ewwwww…………….
In this one the troll is expressing shame because he is so clearly a fucking moron.
@14: My pleasure, LS.
@15: No. But I can tell you with some assurance that we assume you fuck goats.
Shame? Why shame? Everyone’s naked. We hang threads on our bodies because we haven’t got enough fur (except for Troll who has too much) to keep us warm.
Religion invented shame along with those seven others that form the great hit parade of sin.
“Do as I say, not as I do” the credo of modern religion.
Besides, from what I gather, Adam and Eve felt no shame ’cause Eve was HOT!
@18
cant say I have done the goat thing, however you all-male steambath types sure seem facinated by goat species…
as for me, I like females…the human kind
The more interesting question to me is did they feel something other than shame? Were they proud and naked? Because that wouldn’t be christian at all.
@10 LS
I do not get your point.
This link is to a bunch of strange men.
Do you suppose that Moses dressed like that?
As for SJ, Goldy, or an of the other Jews here, why not ask them what they think?
Here is a different thought, Michelangelo, painted lots of naked folks on the ceiling of a chapel intended to be occupied by more men, celibate men, in strange clothes. Why?
I am that I am.
God:
Michelangelo: Gay
Before you go there: So was da Vinci.
Their art was no big deal to the pedophile clerics, still protecting the perverts after all these years — including the current Pope:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyn.....stupid.php
@22
Bullshit, God.
You correctly pointed out that Christianity has an especially dehumanizing and destructive take on the physical body, and sex and gender. I merely pointed out that they were not the only ones, and as an example cited an Orthodox Jewish community hosting a rabidly anti-gay Catholic politician, and at that event the segregated women of the Jewish community attacked women reporters who were not allowed to do their jobs at the Jewish community center because of their gender.
I find you deflections, SJ, a bit disingenuous.
The sexual perversions of the Catholic clergy are well known. I find the notion that a bunch of repressed, celibate men making pronouncement on sexuality and marriage and birth control and abortion ludicrous. I assume you do too. What’s your point?
15 – heh. tehchickenshit is projecting again.
Ewwww.. The fantasies of right wingers…
Abso-freaking-lutely. Dino Rossi should hang it up already and stick to bottom feeding on foreclosures.
@25
What a wierd idea!
That a father would be so turned on that he was afraid of being naked with his teen aged daughter!
QUICK, lets nuke the congo!
If you ever had doubts about who Republicans are for, and who they’re against, that became as clear as the sunlight reflecting off the bankrupt Crystal Cathedral in California this last week as Republicans held expiring unemployment benefits for millions of destitute unemployed workers hostage for an extension of tax cuts for the rich who don’t create jobs. And Republican hypocrisy is on full burnished display:
“Republicans have insisted that the price of their going along on extension of unemployment benefits was that Democrats had to find a way to pay for them, given rising concern over the deficit. Democrats complained, in turn, that the Republicans were not applying that same standard to the cost of continuing tax cuts for the wealthy.”
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2.....s-unemplo/
Next time you hear Sarah Palin demagoguing the deficit, remind her that tax cuts for the rich make the deficit worse.
Yeah, deficits are bad, at least in theory, but don’t forget where the deficit came from. The federal budget was in balance when Republicans took over the government in 2001, and it’s been downhill ever since. The Tea Party movement is laughable because they support the very people who created the problem in the first place and are now doing their utmost to make it worse.
We have a real problem on our hands. Back in the Good Old Days when the GOP consisted only of greedheads, fundamentalists, and warmongers, we could look forward to a big chunk of the Republican Party disappearing when the Rapture comes. But I can’t see God wanting these Teahadists up there with him. I think we’re going to be stuck with them down here for a long, long time.
The only thing to do is get naked with some hippie girl and make more Republicans.*
* An unpleasant, but unavoidable, side effect of free love was creating the freeloading offspring of former hippies who now all vote Republican.
28 – Heh. We already know when the rapture’s coming. See comment 11.
Can’t wait – we might finally be rid of Puddybud and that miserable KLOWN. Beam ’em up big guy upstairs!
I think I’ll hang out here at least till then. The comedy value will be too rich.
The Rapture Index is only modestly high at 170 – I think some more plagues, or maybe more satanism or other supernatural stuff needs to happen, or so the index sez.
Digging a bit deeper into the Rapture Index, one finds these nuggets:
(Lee is evidently helping to bring about the Rapture)
(They clearly aren’t reading manoftruth’s posts)
(I think they can’t even write the word Obama)
(Puddy was right!)
(They clearly don’t get irony, or the difference between climate and weather)
@ 24. Liberal Scientist spews:
@22
No, I am HA God. Bullshit God is not Me, as Yoda might say.
and this has what to do with your comments about all religions? BTW, a Jew led Stalin’s forces on the eastern front. Does that say something about Judaism?
As for the rest, why do you digress. I am God, .. not the god of the Jews although they seem to have been the first to figure me out.
??? Is this directed at God? ??
Ask yourself, WHO did HA Navee Michelangelou paint for? Me? Himself? The priests?
I am God, the ceiling of the Sistine chapel is one of the revelations of My truth. It was created by a prophet. The paintings have Truth in them … just as the Torah, the Quuran and the Hymn of Zarathustra have truth.
If some lonely, celibate monk reached under his robe to masturbate, I would not be offended any more than I was offended by Michelangelo’s painting of Adam .. surely one of the greatest works ever of homo-erotic art.
Perhaps, it is just that to some, I work in mysterious ways.
Here is a tale to share. When Jesus was 10, he slept late. Mary came to his bedside to wake her son. There was, shall we say, a prominent tent under the covers. Mary smiled.
I am that I am
the thing that makes me laugh, is that the jewboy doesn’t give one shit about the bible but he posts about it. typically fucking kike, trying to make a buck
Bullshit God/SJ
I bemoaned sexual and gender repression with regard to religion in general – and you reproofed me by pointing out that it was a Christian fault, and pointed out (rightly) that there were cultures/religions that celebrated human sexuality.
I agreed that the Christians are particularly uptight and manipulative regarding the physical body and sexually and gender, but pointed out that they were not alone – and cited a case of Orthodox Jews behaving badly in this regard.
I agree with many/all of your critiques of Christianity, but I find troublesome your apparent inability to recognize others, particularly Jews, behaving similarly. Coupled with your past criticisms of me as anti-semitic for criticizing Israeli policy towards Palestinians, I’m beginning to sense (with alarm and disappointment) some bigotry on your part. Please tell me I’m wrong.
Weren’t we gonna start a “better troll initiative” of some sort?
This batch is beyond lame.
@36
I had proposed that Goldy import a better class of troll. Unfortunately, the nature of trolls being what it is, there are no “better” trolls, only worse.
@36 and 37
ok, do you think goldenberg believes in the bible or religion period?
Whereas MOT believes in a religion which celebrates hate and bigotry
I never felt any shame either. I just felt lucky.
re 34: My father was a WW II veteran and a New Yorker. There are many more descriptive phrases for Jews, Italians, French,Negroes, English, fuckin’ Polacks, etc. — and I know them all — since early childhood.
I don’t use them much, though, because I grew up.
What happened to you?
The Rapture will be soon? That is good. I need a new pair of shoes.
Because they had not yet consumed the Apple products….
So, before the End cometh the Ipod?
trying to make a buck
What? You don’t?
@35 LS
You seem to have a problem here. If you address God, the God may answer.
If you were addressing me vis a vis Christianity, there is a profound difference between individuals and religions.
Islam and Christianity are based on the awful idea of evangelism, they claim to KNOW the truth that ALL men need. They claim further almost unlimited right to impose their truth on others.
Despite that, there are good Christians.
Judaism, and most other world religions, make no claim to such a right. Both Judaism and Buddhism, for example, claim to have found paths to truth, but neither claims anything akin to Christian evangelism or Muslim forced conversion by ocnquest.
Despite this, their are bad Jews and bad Buddhists.
Is this hard to understand?
As for as Palestinians, I doubt very much I EVER made a blanket of the sort you say. Like all members of PEACE NOW, I WANT peace badly, I eschew the continued rule over Palestinians as much as I eschew their refusal to accept Israel as a state.
As an old preacher I once knew used to say; “If God wanted people to be naked, they’d be born that way!”
Sadly, he actually was opposing nakedness and clueless about babies.
Where is the rapture in the Bible?
Because shame is a human invention. It’s a taught social control for…well…social control. Deers don’t feel shame, or dogs or Republicans (sorry, couldn’t help it). With shame and quilt, you couldn’t have Jews or Catholics, you’d have nothing but Unitarians and Wiccans. :)
Right next to the 6000 year old earth, fool.
@49
No! No! No!
God told of the 6000 year old Universe in 1 Puddy, right next to the part about the holy flat tax. The rapture is contained in a lyrical passage in 2nd Cynical along with the sacred psalm of the firearm and the Song of Galt.
@50…
Oh fuck…I forgot.
How silly of me!
(Saw this item on the web)
The Rapture Index (Mad Theology)
by Dave MacPherson
The “Index” (as in Todd Strandberg’s “Rapture Index”) lists 45 “precursors” which are earthly events reportedly acting as signposts pointing to the rapture and showing how close it is.
Here’s the mad theology: the Rapture Index’s pre-rapture “precursors” include even “The Antichrist” and “The Mark of the Beast” which, in Todd’s view, occur AFTER the rapture! What’s more, all of his “precursors” are on earth AFTER the point in time for a “pretribulation” rapture, are actually fulfilled DURING Todd’s seven-year tribulation period, and in fact point to ONLY the (posttribulation) Second Coming to earth and not to any sort of “pretribulation” coming of Christ – a concept that NO organized church and NO official theology ever taught before 1830!
Todd even believes in pretribulationism’s “signless” rapture – which adjective is believable if Tricky Todd can convince us that “precursors” can never be “signs”!
See Google and type in “Deceiving and Being Deceived” (one of my earliest internet articles) to see why the claims for Pseudo-Ephraem and Morgan Edwards (as “pre-1830 pretrib teachers”) are totally groundless.
Also Google “Open Letter to Todd Strandberg,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Walvoord Melts Ice,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Wily Jeffrey,” “Pretrib Rapture – Hidden Facts,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Thieves’ Marketing,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” and “Scholars Weigh My Research.”
Be sure to obtain my bestselling nonfiction book “The Rapture Plot” (available at Armageddon Books online) if you would like to see 300 pages of the most detailed and most accurate history of the 180-year-old pretrib rapture view.
(To see a great blog by Gen. James Green, Google “Battle Cry Sounding to Christians: Pretrib Hypocrisy.”)
Saw this on a tag lone over at DailyKos:
(BTW, it was from a comment following a good diary on American Exceptionalism and its essentially hollow nature, and the right’s demand that we alll clap louder! We’re the greatest nation in the history of the galaxy!)
That kos diary here.
But Eve was hot, so it was OK.
30. YLB spews:
And sadly, I suspect you’ll be sniffing sulfur for eternity my friend.
Your ongoing bashing of God and Jesus Christ will come back at ya.
You are exercising your “free choice” God gave you…inappropriately.
Good luck with that.
Actually Goldy, the translation says–
New International Version (©1984)
The man and his wife is the point Goldy.
You had a wife once.
Were you ashamed to be naked in front of her??
@53…
Good one!
I presume that by the reckoning of MISTER Cynical-ASS-Klown and the big p’dumbski…the big jesus in the sky is gonna lift only their kind of faithful to the big paradise (btw…muslims get virgins and christians get…canasta???). So if you are a non-christian (or a roman catholic which is a particular kind of “non-christian”), or a non -believer, or a “Deist”, or a whatever and a good person and true to a reasonable moral code you are just shit out of luck.
It’s just a clubby club club for the really really cool kids…who were total asholes that nobody liked and now they’re getting eternal revenge.
Good times…sniffing sulpher…yay.