The Seattle chapter of Drinking Liberally meets tonight (and every Tuesday), 8PM at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E. We are pleased to have Congressman Jay Inslee join us tonight, and I suspect energy policy will be high on his list of topics to talk about.
Also, I received a lot of responses about my plans to produce a weekly podcast from Drinking Liberally. I’d love to discuss this face to face with anybody interested in helping out, so please come on by.
Wish I could come, I’ll be stuck in Olympia. Jay Inslee is awesome.
Gerald, LiberalWashington.com
Jay Inslee, from what I understand, did not take any money from Jack Abramoff to change his votes. I will grill him as to why he didn’t cash in (he oughta have a nice watch).
Roger Rabbit rarely appears at DL due to traffic problems caused by the crush of admiring fans, autograph seekers, papparazzi, bill collectors, and process servers. But the GOP shills and trollfucks, not to mention Stefan, appear even less frequently, apparently for fear of getting stomped by a 9 7/8-lb. bunny.
Bill Clinton will be there, giving a chat on the importance of fidelity in marriage. He will also share some thoughts about impeachment and possibly extend some advice to Geroge W. on how impeachment isn’t the end of the world: it’s just another opportunity to hit the lecture circuit.
Democrat’s energy policy: No drilling, no new refineries, no nukes, no war for oil, lots of taxes on corporations, add another 50 cents a gallon gas tax, and BLAME BUSH for high gas prices!! Democrats: economic idiots!!!!!
Oil companies are evil!! No gasoline or heating oil of LNG of any kind in MASS or WASH states!!! [hehe…let the libs freeze!!]
No windmills off Kennedyland!!! No Oldsmobiles off MASS’s bridges!!! [hehe]
More taxes!!! Tax the private sector until the companies leave the state!!! [Atlas has Shrugged!]
More taxes!!! Tax the private sector until the companies leave the state!!! [Atlas has Shrugged!]
I don’t think JCH has read “Atlas Shrugged”. I don’t think JCH can READ.
I think JCH does too much “Maui Wowie”!
and yes, he (JCH) definitely does INHALE!
JCH is a sad, lonely, closeted republican rump ranger. Jim West’s fate brings him to tears almost every night. Also, he finally started looking at the pay stubs from his after-school job at McDonald’s and is now outraged that these “tax” thingies are taken by the government.
I’m dissapointed that I can’t make this one – I’d like to drink with Jay – for those of us who have never attended a DL, is it pretty obvious which group is which? Is Goldie up on the counter screaming at people, or is it a more subdued affair?
@ 14
Which group is which? The DL group is super easy to find. And Goldy usually just holds court without too much yelling.
Have fun everyone. This sounds like one that’s worth making, but the drive is a bitch.
I will be up here, with beer and friends, commiserating that the election north of 49 did not go as well as we hoped, nor as badly as we feared.
(and thanking all Gods that Canada is Canada, and getting less than 50% of the votes does not give you the right to turn the country upside down).
10
Ignore JCH. Responding only encourages him.
“Atlas has Shrugged” is one of those things people throw on the end of a post that says… “I am a loser”
As I recall, I got about 10 pages into “Atlas” before I decided it was a bad dime novel and tossed it into the recycle bin.
The wingnuts remind me a little bit of stonehenge.
RR, 10 pages into Atlas Shrugged, and you quit? Try “It Takes a North Korean Village”, by Hillary. It’s perfect for a “guvment” employee who couldn’t make it in the private sector. Lots of “guvment” to help you libs through the night!!
Ayn Rand’s “Fountainhead”……..she nailed Bill Clinton 60 years ago. Democrats: economic parasites!
Stonehenge had more to do with the early religions of Britain than is does with American conservatives.
I think JCH does too much “Maui Wowie”!
Comment by For the Clueless — 1/24/06 @ 12:38 pm [Not Maui, although I dive there [Kapalua, Kohana, and Molokini Crater]. I live on the Big Island [That would be Kona, Hilo, Pahoa, and Volcano] Enjoy your winter, dumb shits!!!
I’ll be in the audience for Dan Rather tonight, so I’ll probably miss Jay. Depending on when Dan finishes, I might try to drag my friend over to Montlake afterwards. And if we run into Dan in the post-speech period (yeah, right), maybe we’ll corral him too.
Roger Rabbit posts 50 to 100 times a day, then advices to “ignore JCH’s posts”. Democrats: Always ready to spend someone else’s money!!!
JCH is a sad, lonely, closeted republican rump ranger. Jim West’s fate brings him to tears almost every night. Also, he finally started looking at the pay stubs from his after-school job at McDonald’s and is now outraged that these “tax†thingies are taken by the government.
Comment by HCJ — 1/24/06 @ 12:43 pm {Jim West?? Help me here…BTW, prior to college and the US Navy, I did flip burgers. An honest job. A tax paying job. A private sector job. Unlike RR’s “guvment” job, I paid taxes. Get the difference?]
Dan Rather allowed himself to be taken-in by a hoax. His hatred for GWB was so great that he walked into the trap with his “eyes wide shut.”
BTW, HCJ, When a private sector employee looks at his pay stub, and the withholding is 30-40% of income, a Republican is created almost every time!!!
RR, I am John Galt and I live in Paradise!!! Surfing, SCUBA, and Hawaiian sunshine. Property values up 100% in two years!! And you, “guvment” hack???
Has Dan been fired yet??
Anyone Democrat here see the irony of Senator Teddy [Oldsmobile] Kennedy judging anyone’s morals or character?? Teddy Kennedy and “Tookie” Williams represent the Democrat Party quite well!!
@32
Well, there is Laura Bush who has a rather deadly way of terminating a romance. But never fear. She is one of us.
I hope Jay will talk about the 8th CD and Darcy Burner’s candidacy. Clearly, Reichert is vulnerable, and any insight he could give on winning the 8th would be great.
In today’s news, Samuel Alito’s nomination cleared committee on a straight party-line vote, 10-8, with all the Democrats voting against him; and in 2005, Planet Earth saw the highest average mean surface temperatures ever recorded, indicating the planetary climate is definitely warming up.
@ 34
Shoot! Any insight on winning the 4th (a seat he’s held) might be even more helpful!
28
“Dan Rather allowed himself to be taken-in by a hoax. His hatred for GWB was so great that he walked into the trap with his ”eyes wide shut.'”
The document in question was a fake, but Dubya’s draft dodging and desertion are no hoax. Dubya used his congressman father’s pull to jump over 200 other candidates for 1 of 2 highly-sought-after pilot-trainee slots in the TANG, and then after the taxpayers spent over $1 million to train him to fly fighter jets, he rendered virtually no useful service, went AWOL for a year, was grounded because he failed to report for his flight physical, and sat out a war in which the military was losing fighter pilots at the rate of 1 or 2 a day. It certainly appears that Dubya’s motive in joining the Guard was to avoid Vietnam and get free medical care without actually serving. It was pretty insulting to all the Vietnam vets who lost their lives, or survived harrowing duty, when Dubya put on a flight suit he never earned the right to wear and spent another $1 million of taxpayer money for a photo op.
In today’s news, Samuel Alito’s nomination cleared committee on a straight party-line vote, 10-8, with all the Democrats voting against him; and in 2005, Planet Earth saw the highest average mean surface temperatures ever recorded, indicating the planetary climate is definitely warming up.
Comment by Roger Rabbit — 1/24/06 @ 1:51 pm [The Global Warming Conference will be held Feb 2nd, 2006, in Fargo, ND. Al Gore will speak!! [Outside temp minus 22 degrees!]
37….RR, I misses your post on Bill Clinton’s military service. Please repost. [That chicken shit Bob Dole never served in the military like Bill and Hillary Clinton!!]
BTW, RR, You can call me LT, USN [76-84].
I think the climate is warming up, but I don’t know that it’s entirely the fault of greenhouse gases. About 1,000 years ago, it was warm enough in England to grow grapes for wine. Then there was a mini-ice age, and it has been too cold to grow grapes there ever since. Why was it warner there 1,000 years ago?
Maybe this global warming will cause the sea level to rise to the point where I’ll have some waterfront property!
LT. JCH @ 40,
I think if you take into consideration the time and energy that RR spends on this board, you will recognize the guy is a failure at….Life.
He dedicates his daily life to posting on this, Morning, Noon & at Night. Continually rants about the way the the democrats are taking over America and then calls other people delusional?
Ignore the lefty troll
Momus is referring to someone else as a troll? Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
ACtually, the documents used by 60 Minutes were not shown to be fakes. However, enough questions were raised that CBS backed off. Mary Mapes, the producer who lost her job as a result, claims that she now has genuine memos from the Texas National Guard contemporary to the memos used in the 60 Minutes story. These genuine memos contain the same elements that were called into question; superscripts, proportional spacing, etc. Therefore, while the memos could still be fake, they could also be legitimate.
And now you know … The rest of the story!
39
“37….RR, I misses your post on Bill Clinton’s military service. Please repost. [That chicken shit Bob Dole never served in the military like Bill and Hillary Clinton!!]”
Bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but a good president.
Dubya was a draft dodger, and is a lousy president.
Hillary Clinton wasn’t required to register for the draft because she’s a woman.
Bob Dole is a war hero, and didn’t get to be president.
Anything else?
40
“BTW, RR, You can call me LT, USN [76-84].”
I didn’t salute officers back then, and I still don’t, and I especially don’t salute peacetime swabbie lieutenants. Show me a Marine or Army infantry officer, and I might salute.
RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll, RR is a Troll,
43
Since this is a liberal blog, I am by definition not a troll, and Momus the Pompous Assus is by definition a troll.
Wayne,
I took a look at those letters on some website somewhere. The thing that struck me was that nobody in the Air Force (and the Air National Guard) write in the style of those docs. Forget the typeface not being available on Air Force typewriters. The WAY the commander wrote wasn’t the way Air Force guys write.
I was an Air Force pilot for 20 years, and the stuff looked fishy to me from the start. I know, it’s just my anecdotal evidence here, but I’m gonna stick with it. Somebody was tying to run a scam.
44, 49
I’m inclined to lean toward Libertarian’s analysis on this one, but this is one of those discussions that misses the point. Republicans circulate fake documents all the time (most recently, the “metaphor” postcard) — so frequently, and so massively, that I just naturally assume anything coming from the GOP or a rightwing web site is a fabrication (because almost all of it is). I’ve checked many of the mass-circulation rightwing anecdotal e-mails against debunker web sites, and found that nearly 100% of those stories are false. Republicans lie, it’s a given. As for Dubya manipulating the National Guard to avoid Vietnam, that’s so clearly the fact of the matter that it doesn’t matter that he had all the records destroyed while Texas governor. Everyone knows what he did.
“37?.RR, I misses your post on Bill Clinton?s military service. Please repost. [That chicken shit Bob Dole never served in the military like Bill and Hillary Clinton!!]â€
Bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but a good president.
Dubya was a draft dodger, and is a lousy president.
Hillary Clinton wasn’t required to register for the draft because she’s a woman.
Bob Dole is a war hero, and didn’t get to be president.
Anything else?
Comment by Roger Rabbit — 1/24/06 @ 2:26 pm
[RR, remember when Hillary told her “I tried to join the US Marine Corps story”?? Dumb shits like you actually believed her. I served 7 years, with 4 years at sea and 1 in South Korea. Fuck you. I did my share.]
Reply to 47
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
“Bill Clinton was a draft dodger, but a good president.” [Roger Rabbit] Boy, as look as the “guvment” retirement check comes every month, a liberal will say the dumbest things!!
RR, you idiot.
It appears that Cyberspeak is not part of your strong points.
It does not matter that this is a liberal blog. Possibly this may help educate your sorry ass.
Troll:(v.) (1) To deliberately post derogatory or inflammatory comments to a community forum, chat room, newsgroup and/or a blog in order to bait other users into responding.
(2) To surf the Internet.
(3) To hang around a chat room reading the posts instead of contributing to the chat.
(n.) One who performs any of the above action
52
“remember when Hillary told her ‘I tried to join the US Marine Corps story’??”
No, I haven’t heard that one, but see my post #50 above.
RR, Did you get kicked around in 2nd grade? Did the little girls laugh at you??
JCH: More likely you’re lying again… you like doing that. I wouldn’t believe you served if you showed me your discharge papers.
Plus you being a Lieutenant implies you got a Degree… given the quality of your postings, I tend to doubt it.
I like having you around tho, JCH… When the righties automatically rally around the indefensible things you say… it more clearly shows who’s actually thinking and who’s being a reactionary wingnut. So you do serve a role, racist liar or not.
for the record, I’d call RR a spammer rather than a troll… But thats just me :p
Seriously tho, in political blogs and forums ‘troll’ has also come to mean someone coming from the opposite political view to make trouble… And by that definition RR isn’t one. But, as you say by the ‘old, nonpolitical’ version he’s a borderline troll.
56
“RR, Did you get kicked around in 2nd grade?”
No.
“Did the little girls laugh at you??”
No.
How about you?
Windie……LT, USN…[76-84]….Penn State [BS, MBA], taxpayer [84-05], and RETIRED!!! Go tax someone else!! Atlas has Shruged!!
windie,
I didn’t notice any racist remarks by JCH in this thread. Are you referring to earlier threads?
58
I fuck with Republicans. I kick them. I call them liars. It’s what I do. It’s who I am. If that makes me a troll, then I wear the label proudly.
61
Yes.
Why are public sector pensions twice or three times the average of those in the private sector? Public parasites rather than public servants??
checking to see if anything is new here after being out of state for 4 days….
scanning…..
Yaaaawn.
Windie,
Whose record? While that may just your opinion, you would be wrong….
Youmight want to try referencing deifinitions rather than just making them up, but that’s just me :-)
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/t/troll.html
and yes, RR is a TROLL, as he posts 87% of the posts on this board (by his own admission) he is the biggest troll associated with Horsesass… and that’s a record one can really be proud of.
Momus the Pompous Assus @54
“Troll:(v.) (1) To deliberately post derogatory or inflammatory comments to a community forum, chat room, newsgroup and/or a blog in order to bait other users into responding.”
By this definition, I’m not a troll, because I don’t do it “to bait other users into responding.” If you respond, that’s a reflection of your personal problems, and I don’t care about your personal problems.
Sven: yes, just four more days of Republican scumbag tricks. GOP business as usual!
Sorry, I dozed off……Nope, nothing new here…..
64
“Why are public sector pensions twice or three times the average of those in the private sector? Public parasites rather than public servants??”
Because public sector pay is one third to one half the pay for comparable private sector work.
Momus: your sex offender talking points campaign failed. Go back to (un)SP.
I like having you around tho, JCH… When the righties automatically rally around the indefensible things you say… it more clearly shows who’s actually thinking and who’s being a reactionary wingnut. So you do serve a role, racist liar or not.
Comment by windie — 1/24/06 @ 2:41 pm
[Windie…..Unlike Senator Byrd, I never have been a member of the KKK. Unlike Senator Kennedy, I never killed a “date”. Unlike Hillary, I don’t use blacks as “voter slaves” on the “plantation”. Unlike Mayor Ray, Hawaii has a lot of different cultures [not “Chocolate Town”]. And you call me a racist???]
I have no problem with the decisions made by Clinton or Bush with regard to the Vietnam War. It was a foolish war that we had no business fighting. I respect the decisions of those who chose to go but I also respect the decisions of those who chose not to. I was 16 when it ended so I did not have to make that choice.
I do have a problem with hypocrisy, however. People who call Clinton a “draft dodger” for avoiding the draft but ignore the many Republicans who “had other priorities” or used Daddy’s influence to get a cushy gig far from the fighting are the hypocrites.
“All animals are equal, but Hillary is a little MORE equal than others”. [hehe]
Wow! This thread is already up to 75 comments! Stefan is lucky if he gets that many in a whole week on his pathetic little blog.
” I’m not a troll, because I don’t do it “to bait other users into responding.” ”
Do you actually read your posts before you hit send?
clueless,
Sorry to me its politics as usual.
Did you read about the fraud cases in Wisconsin? Every state has its scandals, and frnakly they all just show the system is inherently corrupt.
I am to the point of not caring any more.
pot meets kettle and the public invaribly gets cooked.
And if you will look back a post I, you will see that I posted that the Republicans are idiots for claiming it was just a metaphor when they could have clearly just worded the postcard as an *example*, as opposed to the obvious impression it was a real community threat.
In fact it would have made their point stronger by pointing out that this guy was registered in Pierce county but had no mandatory supervision and could move anywhere he wanted…
lest I be called partisan…..
Note when Clinton was running again War Hero Dole, ABC, NBC, CBS, La Times, NY Times [MSM] made damn sure Clinton’s lack of military service NEVER was an issue. 10 years later, Dan Rather………..[hehe]
JCH@60 You can say whatever you like, you’re still a proven liar. I could say I was Buck Rogers with the same amount of credibility as you have.
lib@61 yes… He spent several months constantly black-baiting, presumably as a bad attempt at humor or classic trolling. And alot of the hardcore righties were right with supporting him all the way.
momus@66 in my experience, language changes… and it changes far faster than the dictionaries do (yay linguistics!) I’m not *really* arguing with you… But on blogs troll has come to mean ‘person from the side opposed to the blogger’, or just about. Thats certainly how most of the people on HA use it. Anyways RR’s primary thing isn’t trolling. He’s a spammer that trolls sometimes :p
Sven@65 … out of town for 4 days…. you weren’t in… San Jose, were you? oO
76
“Do you actually read your posts before you hit send?”
No.
Let me spell it out for you, M.P.A. … I don’t care if you read my posts, or what you think of them, or what you think, or whether you think (although I’m pretty sure you are not a sentient thinking organism). I simply don’t care. Don’t care. Get it?
73,
That cuts both ways though, and those who excused Clinton’s dodging as being irrelevent who condemn Bush for serving in what they determined was a limited capcity are also equally guilty.
Say, Stefan, I know you read this blog, so I want to ask you why you won’t share your windfall from your lawsuit against King County with the generous donors to your “legal action fund” who paid for the lawsuit — it is because you’re a selfish prick, or because you can’t hold a job and need the money, or both?
Windie….
what a curious question. What makes you ask?
Wayne at 73: Good point. I’ve noticed a lot of prominent Republicans have no military service on their resumes. This may sound a little prejuduced, but I look more favorably on a politician who did some time in the military versus those who didn’t. Cheney didn’t do any time in the service, for example, and I think that’s a blot on his record. I also noticed this guy Alito (born in 1950) had no military service. What’s up with that? He was the right age to have been eleigible for the Vietnam debacle.
sven: Well, as it happens I was out of town in San Jose for 5 days (ending last night) helping my friend sell some stuff… Was just wondering if it were a coincidence ;)
73
I’ve never said Clinton’s draft dodging was irrelevant. It’s the reason why I didn’t vote for him. As I have stated before on HA, I voted for Perot in ’92 and Dole (the war hero) in ’96. It used to a politican had to be a veteran to get elected, but those days are gone. The world has turned upside down, and now we have draft dodgers calling veterans like Max Cleland and John Kerry “unpatriotic.” Hypocrisy flows like water in this administration. Our government is now run by draft dodgers, and the troops blindly follow them into the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. Go figure. I feel for the troops, and understand their desire to believe in the mission, but they’ve been had by the draft dodging crowd of civilians leading them over a precipice.
Windie,
Was that you!?!
Sven:
That’s not entirely true. Bush’s service, or lack thereof, was not an issue to me because he did something wrong in the 70’s, but rather because the Republicans made such a big deal out of Clinton’s lack of service.
It was worth making the comparison to highlight the hypocrisy. I do agree you can’t criticize Bush’s lack of service and ignore Clinton’s without being a bit inconsistent.
sven:
Could be… NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION! :p
89
Clinton was a draft dodger and skirt chaser who turned out to be an effective president who made life better for millions of Americans. Bush is a blazing incompetent who fucks up everything he touches. There is no comparison between these guys.
Clinton = bad person, good president
Bush = bad person, lousy president
Windie, Were you a sissy in junior high school? What a pussy poster!!
Wayne,
Good response. I agree that the inconsistency is mutual.
I looked heavily into both of Kerry and Bush’s records as made available. The AWOL allegatoins were never formally proven, and the key word is “without” in AWOL. If he was given permissoin to skip drills, he was not AWOL. Its just a hard paper trail to prove he was or wasn’t given permission.
I was a reservist at McChord following my active duty and I had schedule conflicts where I skipped a weekend and made the time up. But I also requested and recieved an early release from the reserves for personal reasons, so exceptions are built into the system.
In Bush’s case, there hasn’t been anything proven to establish wrongdoing.
In Kerry’s case,t he swift boat accusations were mostly he said she said and have to be treated with proper suspician. Obviously they had an agenda. I perused Kerry’s record and only found two troubling aspects. ONe, he had a medal on his dd214 that does not exist, and two his DD214 referenced a continuation which was never published. A correction fot he faulty medal was never cited, though a correct for another less serious matter was sought in 2000 (i recall) and that was published.
In essence my only fault with Kerry was allowing the mistake in medals to remain unanswered, and claiming he had released his complete records when he hadn’t.
All other allegations were pretty much pointless.
And neither had any bearing to me on worthiness of commanding the military. We have had plenty of talanted and able CIC’s, military service was never a deal maker for me. All it did was cloud the real issues.
sven: Well, as it happens I was out of town in San Jose for 5 days (ending last night) helping my friend sell some stuff… Was just wondering if it were a coincidence
Comment by windie — 1/24/06 @ 3:04 pm [Doper??]
Windie,
Actually yes I did fly in and out of San Jose, but I stayed in the central valley all 4 days, other the several very boring hours at the very lousy SJ airport.
Do Democrat felons who run illegals or dope pay taxes?
jch@92 weak effort. Pussy poster? Seems like you’re throwin’ out nonsequiter insults now :P
…@94 I was waiting for this one. No, not dope. If sven was there, he knows what we were sellin’ ;)
sven@95 damn. Oh well :) I had fun getting drunk at all the evening parties!
This thread is about environmental issues. The oil companies are evil and must not do business in MASS or WASH states. No gasoline, no heating, and no natural gas sales in the Democrat Villages of MASS and WASH States!! [hehe……let the Democrat Senators face their frozen Democrat voters in February!!]
I think its more about people who like Ayn Rand being morons, but who knows?
also, JCH… talking to yourself is kinda creepy. Just a fyi
…@94 I was waiting for this one. No, not dope. If sven was there, he knows what we were sellin’
Comment by windie — 1/24/06 @ 3:20 pm [Did you pay taxes on these “sales”?? Typical “underground economy” Democrat! Tax everyone else, but not me!!!!
California has tax nazis… so, yes we were paying taxes on it :p
Well, he was… I was just there to help man the table and get drunk at parties.
lol.
I didnt enjoy that much fun, this was a trip to spend time with my mom who has cancer. But in all it was a good visit, and I came home feeling renewed.
Windie,
Now I have to wonder if we were on the same flight coming home last night…I took chances and flew Alaska.
:D
Sven@82: Remember Dan Quayle? Pappy Bush’s annointee as Vice President? Prior to Dan Quayle, service in the National Guard, while commendable as volunteer service, wasn’t considered particularly significant military service; REAL military service was in the regular Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard, Marines; however, the Republicans had to polish Dan’s light duty National Guard service (as a journalist in the US)and try to promote it as a patriotic personal sacrifice as on par and as siginificant as the average enlisted or draftee’s service in Viet Nam. Expectations were effectively lowered. Georgie boy has lowered them even further. Lowering expections and then trashing real heroes and patriots is the Republican’s best skill. Georgie, the US capon in chief, can pretned he’s a REAL military man just by putting on a uniform – in his case, it’s actually a costume. He thinks that makes him a leader and a solider and we’re supposed to buy into his fucking pretense. I have far more respect for those who were/are forthright about choosing not to serve, than I do for those who “served” in some half-assed, irrelevant fashion, and now think their “service” qualifies them as leaders and heroes.
Doesn’t George Bush have 400 hours in F-102’s?? Hmmmmmmmmm???
Marilyn,
I dont know if what you say is true or not, but no one has ever indicated that service in the guard or reserves is not honorable, and if they had i would be the first to speak against it.
Notable Military reservists who served however prior to Quayle would include Harry S. Truman (MS NG), John F Kennedy (Naval RES), Teddy Roosevelt (NY NG) and many others who served in militias…Not to mention congressmen including Sen Murtha…so maybe as you say now its a big deal because of Quayle.
I dont really know, but its hardly relelvent to the discussion at hand, which was the fact that both sides stand behind a self serving inconsistent attitude about service.
Deadly freeze claims more lives in Eastern Europe
Jan 24 10:11 AM US/Eastern
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A glacial chill claimed more lives in across Eastern Europe, forcing schools to shut and disrupting public transport as cold cracked rail lines.
In Poland, a total of 39 people have died since a cold spell hit the country last Thursday, bringing to 161 the number who have died this winter, many of them homeless, police said.
Temperatures in the south of the country plunged to minus 35 degrees Celsius (minus 31 Fahrenheit), while the capital Warsaw shivered as the mercury registered minus 25 C (minus 13 F) overnight Monday-Tuesday.
A number of public transport buses broke down, while trains were running late across Poland as rails cracked and electric cables snapped. More than 1,200 Polish schools and 250 creches were shut.
In the Baltic state of Estonia, three more deaths from cold were reported Tuesday morning. Meanwhile, blazes broke out in houses where residents attempted to melt frozen pipes with open fires.
One blaze in a residential building in Tallinn blocked traffic on the main traffic artery of the capital city for several hours Tuesday morning.
A passenger ferry from the western island of Vormsi to mainland Estonia, which usually takes 30 minutes to make the crossing, took nine hours as the ship got stuck on Sunday in frozen waters of the Baltic Sea.
In Latvia, a country of just 2.3 million inhabitants, six more people died between Monday night and Tuesday morning, police reported. In total, at least 40 people have died of cold in the last week.
Riga Town Hall, the municipal building in the capital’s historic Old Town, opened its doors to homeless people during the night.
In the western Lithuanian city of Telsiai, some 30 multistorey buildings where pipes broke remained without heating on Tuesday and more than 70 had only partial heating.
The army distributed blankets and heaters to help families cope. However, temperatures were higher than in recent days, with the mercury at minus 15 C (5 F) Tuesday morning.
In Gargzdai in western Lithuania, half the city lost its heating Monday night after a breakdown in a centralized power system. Heating was only partially restored in the morning. {this is a lie due to “Global Warming”!!]
JCH.
336
Sorry……Bush’s aircraft….400 hours in F-106s. As a Navy man, my knowledge of USAF fighters is incomplete. I’m sure Hillary flew fighters and was a Navy SEAL as well!! [see NY Times] [hehe]
MARILYN
TELL ME WHAT SERVICE YOU SERVED IN
ILL BE GUESSING NONE.YOU FULL OF SHIT AND THAT IS PUTTING IT MILDLY.SOYOU PERFER SOME FUCKER WHO RUNS OFF TO cANADA THAN SOME
ONE WHO SERVED IN THE RESERVES YOU FUKEN BRAIN IS FRIED TRY TO GET SOME HELP.
Practice hours, yes. So what? where did he serve? Why didn’t he take his physical?
That’s cice, but Bush flew an F-102 Delta Dagger and A T-33 trainer.
JCH
PLEASE LEAVE THE RABBIT ALONE.YOU WERE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO SERVE IN NAM BUT THE RABBIT DID.HE DID A TOUR AT THE NAVY EXCHANGE WORKED IN THE LADIES DEPARTMENT SELLING PANTIES.HE DID WORK IN SPORTING GOODS BUT THEY CAUGHT HIM SMELLINK BIKE SEATS.
FLY NAVY
DA WO
sven, we rented a brand new monte carlo and made a road-trip of the way back… so no we didn’t see each other, even on accident :)
JCH: Are you saying GWB served in combat then? Just askin’
YO, take your meds. I have never claimed service; Read the post. I said, and I repeat, that National Guard service, while commendable, wasn’t considered as significant as service in the regular Army, Navy, Air force, Coast guard, and Marines. I come from a military family. I have five brothers – they all served. those who choose not to become career military, enlisted in the National Guard AFTER, they had served in one of the other other services. The National Guard used to be referred to as the “weekend warriors”.
I have a question for you YO. Are you illiterate? There’s help for that, you know. Go get some.
YO, YOUR CAPS LOCK IS STUCK AGAIN. YOU HAD IT CLEAN FOR A LITTLE WHILE THERE. DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER “ACCIDENT”?
HEY MARILYN WHY DONT YOU TAKE A GUESS AT THE PERCENTAGE OF WEEKEND WARRIORS ARE FIGHTING FOR YOU KNOW.IM IMPRESSED YOU GREW UP IN A MILITARY FAMILY BUT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKIN ABOUT. GO BACK IN THE KITCHEN AND WASH YOUR DIRTY DISHES.GOT THE DRIFT.
Sven –
both sides stand behind a self serving inconsistent attitude about service.
Bill Clinton received a Bachelor of Science in Foreign Service (B.S.F.S.) degree from the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington D.C., where he became a brother of Alpha Phi Omega, worked for Senator J. William Fulbright, was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and won a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford, (University College) in England. After attending Oxford, Clinton obtained a Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree from Yale Law School in 1973. During the Vietnam War, when student deferments were ended for grad students he tried a variety of legal means to stay out of a war he strongly opposed, including signing a letter of intent with the ROTC that he later rescinded. He finally entered law school without a deferment when his 1970 draft number came up 311 (high enough that one would not be drafted). Conscription ended in 1973.
GW Bush got a coveted position in the TANG ahead of many others, somehow miraculously vaulting to the top of a waiting list of 500 without any help whatsoever from his rich and politically-connected family (no wonder he got born again–JEsus must have been on his shoulder, eh?), then apparently did not fulfill his commitment fully, which he lied about it later in his book.
The two situations could not be more different in either their facts or their import.
JCH @ 109
Jeez. Same old same old. “It’s cold outside, so that proves there’s no ‘global warming.’ ” It’s WINTER. Duh. I have always been convinced that conservatives prefer not to learn, that if something is established by research and supported by an overwhelming consensus of science it should for some reason NOT be believed.
Never understood it myself. But really, you might want to crack a book that doesn’t have Rush’s face on the cover and really LEARN about the worldwide consensus on global climate change. For example, the changes we are undergoing mean that some places will be wetter than they were before, and some dryer. Some hotter, and some colder. Idiot.
JCH: Are you saying GWB served in combat then? Just askin’
Comment by windie — 1/24/06 @ 3:59 pm [No, but, Windie, have YOU ever “buckled up” in a Mach 2 F-106? Not for pussies. I washed out of Naval Air [bad GI] and served Surface Line [1110]. Flying [and training] in military jets are not for the Bill Clintons of the world.]
Daddy Love…….If you are correct all Democrats must give up their SUVs. Hollywood libs must fly commercial [no Gulfstream G-5s, Falcons, or Citations], and return to commercial airports [THAT would be fun to see!]. Oh, and no 110 foot Chriscrafts!! [see the Kennedys! No more “compounds for the Kennedys to heat and cool!!] We must stop global warming!!! Time to plant corn and wheat in Alaska!! [hehe]
FLY NAVY
DA WO
Comment by YO — 1/24/06 @ 3:59 pm [YO, I’m sure you are correct and I was mistaken. Thanks for the help. Anyone who flies has my respect. I was not up to the stress. Not many are. JCH, LT, USN [1110, 76-84]]
Daddy Love, Why are the “Global Warming” conferenecs in Paris, London, or Kapalua, Maui in July ? Why not Fargo, ND, or Houghton, Hancock, Upper Michigan in February? [hehe]
That’s cice, but Bush flew an F-102 Delta Dagger and A T-33 trainer.
Comment by Sven — 1/24/06 @ 3:55 pm [Thanks…..My knowledge of USAF fixed wind assets is incomplete. I’m sure Roger Rabbit has an opinion here. [hehe]]
sven, we rented a brand new monte carlo and made a road-trip of the way back… so no we didn’t see each other, even on accident [Windie]……Windie, What about “Global warming”?? How could you destroy the environment in a Monte Carlo? Why not a bike, or just hike the distance?? [hehe]
Daddy Love, Doen’t you love the Democrats who fly their Gulfstreams into Sundance, hop in a limo to a luxury hotel suite heated in the middle of winter to “discuss Global Warming” with Al Gore and Bob Redford?? Classically funny!
YO@113: Why should I guess? Guessing is all YOU can do though isn’t it? You can’t read well enough to do research; you aren’t articulate enough to make a point; you can’t spell well enough to write. You can’t comprehend anything. So you have to guess your way through life. You’re illiterate. Tell me YO, can you spell your own name? Can you sign a document? Your illieracy disqualifies you from almost anything you’d want to do. You certainly wouldn’t qualify for the military – it’s been all volunteer for decades now, and you’d have to know how to read AND comprehend. Yo, you can do something about that.
Good Luck. Marilyn
Too bad the 9/11 towelheads didn’t hit the NY Times building instead of the Pentagon. Killing a few thousand Democrat libs might have made Kerry and Kennedy support the troops.
JCH, you live in Hawaii (right) and all you can find to do is post on a forum about Washington state politics? Hell, rubbing one out to pictures of the Bush twins is more productive than this.
I had to laugh at your cut and paste of an aircraft description. You might as well post the specs of the limo GWB rides in.
Especially since it was the wrong airplane.
JCH: the problem is with you lying. I never served, but then, I never claimed to. I just don’t like Bush & Co’s hypocricy and lies about military service… and their willingness to trash real veterans.
Also: You walk from San Jose to Seattle… I have a job :p
JCH:
Were you assigned to the “Gator” Navy?
hey sven tell me how your hero john kerry got three purple hearts and never spent a day in the hospital come on give it a try im sure you will come up with something.
Also: You walk from San Jose to Seattle… I have a job :p
Comment by windie — 1/24/06 @ 5:03 pm [Yes, you libs need to walk from Kalifornia to WASH state to support Al Gore!!] [hehe]
JCH:
Were you assigned to the “Gator†Navy?
Comment by GBS — 1/24/06 @ 5:15 pm [USS Barbour County [LST-1195], USS Tuscaloosa [LST-1187]. Gator WESTPAC Navy. [“I was so much younger then, I’m older than that now”]
hey jch did you see marilyns answer what a dumb shit done the dishes try a little dusting you should know something about that oh by the way its to late i retired with 30 years and i thank you for my retirement pay now get on the house work.
YO
Was there a requirement that the recipient of a purple heart had to spend a day in a hospital? If not, why would it be relevant whether Kerry did or not? Of course, that is assuming YOu have YOur facts correct rather than blissfully repeating right-wing freeper nonsense with no relation to reality.
Windie……..Exactly when and how did I “Lie”?? Cheap shot. Back it up? Yes, I got Geoge Bush’s USAF jet wrong, but YO corrected me. Is that the “lie” to which you refer?
JCH, you live in Hawaii (right) and all you can find to do is post on a forum about Washington state politics? Hell, rubbing one out to pictures of the Bush twins is more productive than this.
I had to laugh at your cut and paste of an aircraft description. You might as well post the specs of the limo GWB rides in.
Comment by shit — 1/24/06 @ 4:59 pm [Shit, It’s raining big time here today, and I’m tired and lazy. Plus I enjoy helping the Democrats reduce “Global Warming”!!]
yo..
LOL
LMAO
Kerry my hero?
All I did was point out the PCH had the airplane wrong. Get over it.
JCH:
I served a short stint on the “mini-twat” USS Manitowoc County LST 1180. Hated the Marines, they seemed to have nothing to do but PT and wait in line for chow. The bastards.
LT. That’s an O-3. The “o” is always mistaken for a zero, because that’s what officers are worth on a ship!!!
Got out as and EN1.
No EN’s, no power, no electrical, no go. Period. The most imortant rating on the ship.
127
“Comment by Sven — 1/24/06 @ 3:55 pm [Thanks…..My knowledge of USAF fixed wind assets is incomplete. I’m sure Roger Rabbit has an opinion here. [hehe]]”
From a foxhole, even a pigeon looks good if it’s dropping ordnance!
129
Why should Republicans have all the Gulfstreams and limos? Why can’t Democrats have fancy rides, too?
145
“The ‘o’ is always mistaken for a zero, because that’s what officers are worth on a ship!!!”
That’s what they’re worth on the ground, too.
“The ‘o’ is always mistaken for a zero, because that?s what officers are worth on a ship!!!â€
That’s what they’re worth on the ground, too.
Comment by Roger Rabbit — 1/24/06 @ 6:01 pm [RR, Are you a little bitter? Were you a enlisted “troublemaker”??]
Got out as and EN1.
No EN’s, no power, no electrical, no go. Period. The most imortant rating on the ship.
Comment by GBS — 1/24/06 @ 5:46 pm [My respects, JCH]
JCH:
I served a short stint on the “mini-twat†USS Manitowoc County LST 1180. Hated the Marines, they seemed to have nothing to do but PT and wait in line for chow. The bastards.
Comment by GBS — 1/24/06 @ 5:43 pm [True, but once ashore, they are the best. I couldn’t do what they do. Did you know Hillary said she tried to join the Marines? Roger Rabbit believes her!! He believes anyone who will ensure his “guvment” check comes every month.]
Wisconsin is one of the few states that allow voters to register and vote on the same day as an election, thus creating an incentive for dubious registrations and other kinds of political hanky-panky. After the 2000 election, a Park Avenue heiress working for Al Gore pleaded guilty to plying the homeless in Milwaukee with cigarettes as an incentive to vote. If anything, the 2004 election appears to have featured even more dramatic violations of law.
Last week, four local workers for the John Kerry campaign pleaded no contest to charges they slashed the tires of 25 vehicles that Milwaukee Republicans were planning to use to get out the vote on Election Day. Two of the guilty come from prominent local political families: One is the son of former Milwaukee mayor Melvin Pratt and another is the son of current Congresswoman Gwen Moore. A fifth man who was not directly tied to the crimes was acquitted after his four fellow defendants abruptly entered no-contest pleas while their trial was already underway.
Prosecutors agreed to accept the no-contest pleas during the second day of jury deliberation in the case, after the presiding judge was informed the jurors might deadlock. In exchange, prosecutors pledged to recommend the four men receive only probation if they agreed to pay restitution for the slashed tires. Given how much the four campaign workers tried to subvert the electoral process, here’s hoping the judge rejects the bargain and imposes some jail time. The charges the four pleaded guilty to carry a maximum penalty of nine months in jail and a $10,000 fine. [Election Day, Democrat Style!!!!]
YO@139: Ah! YO? Now I know – you are in assisted living. Someone washes your dishes, wipes your ass, spoon feeds you, and so on.
I do have a problem with hypocrisy, however. People who call Clinton a “draft dodger” for avoiding the draft but ignore the many Republicans who “had other priorities” or used Daddy’s influence to get a cushy gig far from the fighting are the hypocrites.
Comment by wayne— 1/24/06 @ 2:52 pm
Wayne please does not stereotype the rich, because some of them served with me in the military during that period and they were not drafted into the military. They had more money than you ever seen in your short lifetime. Today I would not support the draft because we would have to deal with a bunch of crying babies. When women register for the draft then I might reconsider my position on the draft.
I have five brothers – they all served. those who choose not to become career military, enlisted in the National Guard AFTER, they had served in one of the other other services. The National Guard used to be referred to as the “weekend warriors”.
I have a question for you YO. Are you illiterate? There’s help for that, you know. Go get some.
Comment by Marilyn— 1/24/06 @ 4:03 pm
Marilyn you miss a few things about the Nat. Guard and Hollywood has less knowledge about the subject. You are partly right about the Guard during the Viet Nam War that was due to LBJ. President Johnson would not call up the Nat. Guard during Viet Nam for may reasons. The Nat. Guard did support during Viet Nam and stayed in the background for many reasons. I for one join the US Air Force in 1966 and I had Guard Troops working with me at that time. I am right now in the Air National Guard and have been deployed into South West Asia before and after the Towers fell. Less than six months after we were attack forty per cent plus Troops deployed into that area was Guard to take down this Nation enemy. Do not sell the National Guard short on what they have done for this country in the last 200 plus years. God Bless.
1150
My comment simply reflects the fact that many Army officers of that era were worthless.
116
“PLEASE LEAVE THE RABBIT ALONE.YOU WERE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO SERVE IN NAM BUT THE RABBIT DID.HE DID A TOUR AT THE NAVY EXCHANGE WORKED IN THE LADIES DEPARTMENT SELLING PANTIES.HE DID WORK IN SPORTING GOODS BUT THEY CAUGHT HIM SMELLINK BIKE SEATS.”
Not hardly, you fucking liar. I served with a front-line combat unit.
153
How come you left out the GOP majority leader, GOP minority leader, GOP representative, and GOP aide who were convicted of felonies in Wisconsin’s legislature scandal?
153
I’m curious: Do the Dem’s dirty tricks negate or necessitate the GOP’s dirty tricks? Or both? Are the comparative scope and scale at issue? What do you consider fair play?
Klake@156: I have stated repeatedly that service in the National Guard was comnmendable – but not the same as active duty service in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast guard. The National Guard had a different purpose – they weren’t meant to be deployed ouit of country. The National Guard in the past was used to respond to national disasters (not to wars in some other country); their basic training was military, however, they also had advanced training in “state of emergency” scenarios on the home front – disaster relief, and so on. The National Guard wasn’t commonly deployed out of the country; they were used on the home front, and deployed to disaster areas (earthquakes, floods, riots, etc.) I certainly wish we had them home now – they are needed here, and their disaster training would certainly have served us better than Michael Brown’s FEMA, don’t you think?
HEY RABBIT
THE PX IS A FRONT LINE UNIT.AND WHAT UNIT WOULD THAT BE RABBIT.OH YOU BIG HERO
Rabbit, A little brig time on bread and water for 3 days might have helped your attitude problem with officers. Best regards, JCH, LT, USN [76-84]
WASHINGTON — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton wants Wal-Mart to contribute to health insurance for its employees – but can’t recall if she pushed for worker benefits during six years as a paid board member for the nation’s largest retailer.
…..
Asked if she had advocated better benefits while serving as a board member with Arkansas-based Wal-Mart from 1986 to 1991, Clinton replied, “Well, you know, I, that was a long time ago … have to remember,” adding that “obviously I believe every company should” contribute to benefit plans. [Now THIS is funny!!!!]