The regional manager of the San Francisco Federal Reserve, Craig Nolte, told an audience in Vancouver this week that there’s still trouble in them there ARM’s. From The Columbian:
The high rate of foreclosure has made Clark County No. 1 out of all 39 counties in Washington state in the first quarter of 2009. The problem could get worse before it gets better, given the lax lending standards and high number of adjustable rate mortgages issued during the 2005 home-selling boom, Nolte said.
“It’s not all subprime loans that are the problem. It’s mainly subprimes with ARMs,” he said.
Adjustable rate mortgages made up more than 23 percent of the area’s home lending while Clark County’s housing market was hot. Now those homeowners are overstretched as their mortgage rates adjust, which can raise the average payment by up to $300 a month.
And as Atrios is pointing out this morning, the problem is likely to get worse before it gets better.
Tanta, who is sadly no longer with us, in an old post reminds me to use the correct terminology to describe the problem. Option ARM rates are going to be recasting soon and in increasing numbers. That’s the magic moment when people can no longer make minimum payments, when they can longer make interest-only or neg-amortization payments.
When that magic moment comes, all of those people are going to look at how high their now unaffordable mortgage payments are. Then they’ll look at how much their house is actually worth relative to how much though owe. Then, maybe, they’ll try one of the various initiatives to modify their mortgage terms. And then, quite likely, they’ll jut walk away.
And these re-casts are coming in 2010 and 2011 in big numbers.
The point being, as Atrios succinctly says, is that’s why the failure to put in place cramdowns is so troublesome.
The banksters stopped it, and if nothing is done we’re all going to get to enjoy another round of mortgage-related calamity, presumably with similarly damaging results to the larger economy. So meanwhile idiots can talk about socialism and guns and gays and whatever, but the regular citizenry needs both the financial system and the larger economy to function well.
It’s absolutely fascinating, too, how some bidness guys ‘n gals think this is all just a bump in the road, and that everything will go back to what they thought was normal soon. Thus the silly talk lately here in Clark County from Republican county commissioners about how important it is to re-inflate the bubble to provide jobs, as if the larger systemic problem know colloquially as “big shitpile” doesn’t exist. Who the heck is going to be buying lots of new houses now, when the market is being depressed so badly and there seems to be no end in sight?
Beyond that, neo-liberal economic policy has been an utter and complete disaster. Continuing to pursue it, as the Obama administration and Congress are doing when it comes to the financial sector, is likely to produce the same result. Most regular people who screw up their jobs horribly get fired, but the banksters get our money and get to continue making a mess of things. Awesome.
It’s worth keeping in mind Republicans want the Obama administration to fail, so of course they are going to fight hard for the status quo ante. We still need a change we can believe in on this front, and if it doesn’t happen by the end of the year, things may get very interesting again.
It’s not surprising that the BIAW types who formed their own bank (and then pulled their money out, leaving ordinary depositers in the lurch) created the biggest mortgage mess in the entire state.
Jon, you are so disingenuous!
Why would a republican want a far left president to succeed.
How many left wingers wanted bush to succeed?
Jon
We do not want Obama to fail with fixing the problems with the current mortgage issues of ARMS etc.
Your quote: “It’s worth keeping in mind Republicans want the Obama administration to fail, so of course they are going to fight hard for the status quo ante.”:
is only your opinion without any facts to support it. Republicans want our government to succeed overall and not put trillions of dollars of debt on our children and grand children.
As I mentioned in a reply to Roger, we are all in the same family and we need to have everyone succeed if at all possible!!
That would be nice. But not realistic.
And what is keeping people from enjoying the success they want is not politically correct to be talked about.
Do we have any data that backs up the idea that there’s a link between sprawl and high foreclosure rates? The worse the sprawl, the higher the foreclosure rate and what not.
One minute this idiot says Obama is the same as Bush and the next…
Well to this fiend I guess Bush was far left!
Priceless.
The liberal dream is coming true…
THE Rudd Government has acknowledged that the supremacy of the US has begun to fade and Australia is preparing for an uncertain future in which it can no longer rely on the protection of its main ally.
In a fundamental shift in defence plans, the Government has explicitly declared that US primacy in the Asia-Pacific – the bedrock of the nation’s security since World War II – may be ending. The change, caused by the rise of new great powers such as China, is set to produce growing regional tensions and a “sudden deterioration” in Australia’s security.
A 20-year defence blueprint, to be released by the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, today, prepares for a multibillion-dollar build-up of naval and air forces to ensure that Australia can defend its northern and sea approaches.
The cost of college is going up and up. Regular folks aren’t able to afford to send their kids to college.
The good news is that at least the kids of rich parents will be able to listen to mrs obama give a speech.
UC Merced’s commencement budget has ballooned from $100,000 to $700,000 after first lady Michelle Obama accepted the invitation to give the keynote address.
I wonder how many scholarships could have been funded by the additional $600,000 it’s costing for mrs obama.
@3 Refer to @2. Also, refer to the Bloated Bloviator’s remarks. The Republicans who want Obama to succeed have been tossed under the Bloated Bloviator-driven Republican bus.
Let’s see – Lush Flimbaugh says he wants PRESIDENT OBAMA to fail and the GOP stands in lockstep. Plenty of evidence of Jon’s statement that the publicans hope for failure – and congrats – in publican controlled Clark County they GOT failure – YAY! I hope they choke on it the assholes!
Cramdowns re-inflate the bubble.
So, your post makes no sense.
Bipartisanship as defined by Obama: We’ll talk but you’ll do things my way. Thanks but no thanks. Or more bluntly, go to hell, you socialist asshole.
And it isn’t that true Americans (as opposed to you leftist loonies) want Obama to fail. They want stupid policies that have been tried in Cuba, the USSR and other Eastern Bloc and other countries and so on to fail. These policies are based on a defunct theory of politics and economics that has been debunked by experience repeatedly.
They want nationalized health to be debated fairly and the facts presented honestly before we adopt the idiotic European system. They want the complete lunacy of a ‘right’ to health care to be finally put to rest.
They want those who earn and produce to keep doing so. No one in his right mind will, if he knows the fruits of his labor will be outright stolen by a leftist president.
They want banks, businesses or anyone else who is so incompetent they can’t keep their business or personal finances afloat to fail. They do not want to pay for those peoples’ errors.
They want the sanctity of a contract to be upheld so that they know what to expect.
Under der fuhrer this is in serious jeopardy. Don’t like your mortgage. The fucking government, who did not last I checked sign it, will renegotiate it. Same with credit card rates and terms and so on.
They want to know that the law applies equally to all. Tax law written to target a specific set of people who got a bonus is not only unconstitutional. It is simply a stupid waste of legislative time.
Obama is spiritually a small time con-man who is currently occupying the most powerful office in the world, to our shame. No-one sane really gives a damn what the slick huckster thinks or does so long as he doesn’t take the rest of us down with him.
7 – Wow other countries, ostensibly friendly to us, taking responsibility i.e. paying – for their own defense.
Possibly giving U.S. taxpayers like Marvelous Marvin a little break.
What a concept!
Re 13:
Or, the fundamental alteration of a long standing relationship between the US and an ally based on our weakness.
What a concept indeed. And your pinhead president will predictably spend any tax break at least 5 times over so don’t rethink your tax stategy in view of upcoming tax breaks YLB. Oh, that assumes you actually work and pay taxes. My mistake.
Idiot @ 14
We spend more on the bloated Pentagon budget than the next x number of defense spenders combined. Last time I checked, “x” was a pretty big number.
And spending on defense still went up in Obama’s budget.
Of course morons like you and your favorite GOP shill outfit Faux News spun it as “gutting defense”. Who’d a thunk it?
Obama is so over his head. Hell, he can’t even talk on his own if asked a question. Obama has never even met a payroll on his own.
The same old tired shit from the same old lunatics on the faaaar right have cost the GOP EVERYTHING! The right wingers are all for war as long as they don’t have to fight it. They’re all for war-based deficits and they’re all for keeping the supporters of the war machines in $$$ at taxpayer expense. But try to spend $4 on helping to feed or clothe or provide medical care for some kid the righties didn’t want to see aborted and they go nuts. No wonder America REJECTED the hate-freedom right wing, condom-sucking traitors in the GOP!
By the way I am loving all the infighting going on right now in the GOP. You have right wing freaks attacking McSame – the guy they were running for President not too long ago. You have right wing cowards attacking his daughter. You have right wing traitors attacking each other over who’s going to be boss of a dead party that only 1 in 5 people in the USA will even claim to be affiliated with. Must suck to be a cowardly, right wing turd! LOL!
Funny I thought that was always the style of the chimpanzee you voted for twice.
As for the rest of your bilge, socialist, blah, blah, blah. Let the banks fail? Where does this fool keep his money? Silver coins in his basement safe? Taxing the bonuses? Lot of so-called “conservatives” voted for that one.. then ends by whimpering with some lame name-calling…
Another day, same old feckless right wing bullcrap…
Re 17 and 18:
There are anger management courses for the kind of rabid reasonless hatred you seem to feel. I would strongly recommend them before you give yourself a coronary or further mental illness.
As for you ‘points,’ such as they are, they are easily refuted. You can produce a poll to say what you wish, and I can quote Mark Twain. “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.” For present purposes replace statistics with polls.
‘War based deficits’ are a tithe to what your huckster president is comitting us to spending on ill thought policies that won’t work anyway. Having said that I have honorably served my country, like all citizens should be required to do, as did my father and grandfather.
The spurious abuse is not worth comment, except to refer you to the anger management portion of this post.
‘Faaaar right’ means, to your kind, constitutionally driven, I guess. Listen, dumbass, the federal govennment is only allowed to perform certain functions. Nowhere in that is the right to steal my money to provide health care for someone else, or food, or housing or anything else not commonly enjoyed by citizens.
For clarification, so that even dim liberals get it, commonly enjoyed means roads, defense, public safety, court systems and the other specifically enumerated powers or duties granted to the federal government. Not one damn thing beyond those grants is constitutional or, it follows, legal.
YLB, no answer so an insult? Bravo.
As usual I suppose. Liberals are incapable of reasoned thought and resort to personal attack like 14 year old kids. Come to think of it, your political theories are immature and silly, so it is entirely appropriate for the defense of them to be comensurate.
@20 did your parents have any kids that lived? How’s it feel to be in the extreme minority that has been bitch-slapped out of any sort of relevance? And how do you feel about one of your own saying the GOP is in “very deep trouble?”
http://politicalticker.blogs.c.....%e2%80%99/
It’s fun slapping around right wing fools. Good exercise.
And by the way – any republican who comes onto this forum and claims to be a veteran is a fucking liar unless he can provide a DD214 to back up his talk – otherwise – we all assume said right wing turd to be a traditional chickenshit, chickenhawk like Lush Flimbaugh, WHATADICK Cheney or Handjob Hannity.
Fool@23: Where’s your DD214?
You have to marvel at the complete and utter stupidity of the right. They’ve been using these same failed Karl Rove tactics since they got their ass bitch-slapped and beaten up one side of the street then the other back in the 06 midterms and again in the national election of 08. Yet – they persist on the same course that has made them the laughing stock of the universe. Personally, I’m glad they are all cowardly, inbred morons. Means we’ll continue to SCHOOL these fools and there’s not one thing the punks can do about it!
Puffybutt when I was fucking your fat, ugly wife in the ass last night she told me you were a deserter – figures.
Hey Marvin the Pervert the liberal dream is to get child rapists like you locked up.
Re 22 and 23:
Wow, such a little mind and still so empty.
To get a discussion worth having I suppose I have to educate you on rhetoric. YLB, you might pay attention here as well. Rhetoric is a word you don’t know, clearly. It means, partially, the art of presenting a persuasive argument.
Some lessons:
Personal attack is the last resort of the competent and the first of the foolish. You can see where in the spectrum this places you and indeed most liberals. So you know, additionally, there is a problem with venturing an unsolicited opinion of someone else. You get too clear a notion of how little your opinion matters to them.
Try to actually have a refutation to the opposition argument. For instance, the so called ‘elastic clause,’ is commonly construed by liberal judges to allow the federal government power beyone specifically enumerated powers. It is a ridiculous construction of the document. It ignores everything we know about the rest of the constitution and makes a mockery of legal reasoning, but you might have done your homework and gotten the basic liberal talking points down.
Vulgarity doesn’t go nearly as far as most lefties seem to think it does. It merely shows the limitations in your language skills.
If you don’t know the answer to something don’t ask about it. My veteran status or anyone else’ really, isn’t your business and I really could care less what you think about it.
Any competent logician would have known that my veteran status is tangential in any case. I don’t have to have a degree in meteorology to know if it is currently raining or sunny. I don’t have to have served in the military to support the defense of this country.
See, that’s how rational people argue things. Try it when you grow up.
Delusional one @ 22, 23, 25, 26, 27… only in your truly violent dreams dude! You ain’t packing enough!
A break? Haven’t you seen the cost of the obama presidency?
My grandchildren need a break and they’re not even born yet.
Funny, I thought you whined about it when bush did it. I guess since bush did it you have no problem with obama doing it.
Typical left wing-nut double standard.
What??
byebyegoober isn’t old enough to drive yet.
28 – The twaddle you bring here isn’t worth the time of day.
The other day you deemed people who are different than you, homosexuals, as being mentally ill. Funny that some homosexuals, are wealthy, some are homeless. Some are mean-spirited, others good-hearted. Some contribute to society in the most esteemed ways possible, others pass through life making barely a ripple. Homosexuals can be found in just about every country, ethnic group, race and of course, some are male, others female.
In other words homosexuals are as diverse a group of people as any can be found despite numbering perhaps less than 10 percent of the population. They are just different in one important respect that so many in the majority find it hard to accept and their difference is magnified by the simple fact that there are more human beings in total population than at any point in recorded history and that trend is likely to continue indefinitely.
But instead of plain acceptance that at the end of the day some human beings just turn out a bit different, you choose to make the profoundly ignorant judgment that homosexuals are as a group mentally ill.
Did I say you and the twaddle you bring here isn’t worth the time of day?
31 – I leaving the whining to you Stamn. Your whole presence here after the ass you’ve made of yourself the last year or so is one big whine.
As far as I know Obama is not a my way or the highway kind of guy. That’s not my view of him, never has been.
That’s the style of that disaster that shuffled off the buffalo last Jan 20., the disaster that so many of your troll ilk voted for twice.
I have. It’s a lot and at least one trillion of it is for national defense, the sprawling intelligence community and veteran’s health care featuring an increased Pentagon budget albeit not as steeply higher as in the previous eight years.
Take it as good news that other countries want to spend more for their own national security and not hit up the U.S. taxpayer for it.
It’s quite an expensive proposition cleaning up after the mess a disaster like Bush left behind.
Of course that’s a good thing.
But it’s also a bad thing knowing that the respect of America to our allies is diminishing. It seems like this is what the left wing-nuts complained about under bush. Oh well, liberals can be such hypocrites it’s hard to remember what they are for/against each day.
I remember when liberals thought expensive shoes, like the ones mcsame wore proved how far out of touch with real people he was. Yes when mrs obama was at the photo op at the homeless shelter she was wearing $540 shoes and not a single liberal complained.
Or like when john kerry was running for president liberals insisted one of the most important considerations for president was the fact kerry was in the military, and how important it was for the president to have military experience when we were at war. But then when it’s mcsame and obama, all of the sudden military experience wasn’t important.
Or like when bush was president how important it was for the liberal media to keep the public informed about the number of military deaths, now with obama in the white house the liberal media only mentions the war in iraq in passing.
I could go on and on but I’m sure you understand the problem with trying to keep up with the ever changing principles of the democrat party.
So foolish idiot tool @33,
With them being less than 10% as you say, why are they asking for something which the majority don’t want to give? Swine flu got your brain scrambled? Must be.
Moron @ 37
There just asking to be treated fairly, not discriminated against.
Pitiful fool.
Wrong schmuck@38: They are the minority making demands of the majority fool. What part of minority/majority rule don’t you understand? You tell all that we lost in November, but this don’t count now? Another of your moronic double standards?
What a tard!
Sheik al Marvin.
Hey, BOY, don’t worry about military men and their importance. You’ve never been one and you’ll never be one. BOYS can’t be military men.
Maybe that’s why you’re so quick to shit on American solders when told to by Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.
Your jealously shows.
BOY!
Puddy,
I expect comments like this from Sheik al Marvin, but not you.
I know you know that in 1967 16 states had outlawed interracial marriage because that’s what the majority wanted, despite what the minority wanted.
What part of “tyranny of the majority over the minority” don’t you understand that is not accepted in American style democracy?
Yep, the respect was pretty damaged under Bush especially when he was flying people to be tortured in various places. It’s being repaired right now by someone half way sane. and it won’t be done overnight fool.
Yep, blah, blah, blah,…. What an idiot.
She’s not running for President. She’s trying to help homeless people. At least, according to you, she is AT A HOMELESS SHELTER. Yeah McSame did a lot of photo ops at homeless shelters didn’t he? Maybe from the number of homes he couldn’t remember?
Well considering that the chimpanzee resident at the time was making such poor decisions and strutting across an aircraft carrier sporting a codpiece and broadcasting MISSION ACCCOMPLISHED, a guy with some REAL military background, who’d actually been SHOT AT, would have been nice change of pace.
You said it – McSAME and Obama. Of course the sane ones among us weren’t going to vote for MORE OF THE SAME.
Blah, blah, blah. Same old right wing media paranoia. I just heard today on the radio that 18 Americans died in Iraq in April. Isn’t the radio the media? and no it wasn’t right wing hate talk radio.
You do go on and on. That’s all you do. You go on and on lying about what people say and misrepresenting the facts, spinning reality towards your warped right wing views.
You keep making an ass of yourself and it’s getting very boring
GBS, Absolutely right. In fact two states South Carolina & Alabama had it in their constitutions which they had to amend years later.
But that law was between a man and a woman GBS. So why are you trying to tie this to the black civil rights cause. Even Jesse Hi-Jackson was against this. Puddy already posted it.
Why is the man/woman issue relevant?
Puddy,
PS: Interracial marriage, by definition, cannot be a “black” civil rights issue. Can it?
Think, man, think!
This is GBS you’re debating.
Yep, they want to be treated equally under the law. Why is that simple American value so hard for you to understand?
Careful Puddy.
Logic must be rule the day.
What happened, Puddy?
Did ya have a brain fart?
All right, Puddy, I see that maybe you have better things to do than me giving you a “teachable moment.”
Fugly guys like you are lucky to have a beautiful wife, so when she calls I don’t blame you for sprinting away from the keyboard.
Have a good one.
Yack at you later.
@28 – you are a master at deflection – paragraphs to try to take our minds off the fact that you pretend to be a veteran and in fact are not. It’s obvious in your ramblings that you are the typical GOP version of someone who believes in a strong military – i.e., you WISH you had the courage to fight for your country and instead you read old copies of Soldier of Fortune, jacking off to pictures of men in their BDUs – by the way that stands for Battle Dress Uniform for you chickenhawk types.
After the way you shamed your parents and the military by being a coward and talking tough while hiding behind the computer I didn’t expect to see you here for a while.
Imagine how you made servicemen feel, you talking the shit knowing you would never have to back it up.
Face it gbs, you are a big talking, non-walking pussy ass coward. You knew I lived miles away and you wanted to show off for your friends that you could talk like a man. And talk is all you did!
Cluck cluck cluck cluck!!!
I wanted to say something in your native language so you would understand how much of a pussy you are.
Now go back to beating your wife like your daddy did to your mommy.
More evidence of Marvin the pervert’s representation as a Christian – you make your church proud Marvin – now put down this month’s copy of the NAMBLA newsletter and start trying to at least pretend you aren’t a pervert who hates America.
And by the way – what is your address in LA?
GBS, Puddy went to bed. When you are “fugly” (as you claim) you go when called. But GBS you forget you are debating a black man on his ground. Puddy has no problem with civil unions, something the most stupid clueless wonder claims equality under the law. What law clueless wonder? More on this in another posting.
Interracial marriage WAS a racial issue. Miscegenation was put in place after because the white master still loved his black ex-slaves. He wanted his white and chocolate cake and eat it too. Once you go black… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahah.
But the other part was black men saw dem white wimens and said let us check that out. The white mens got jealous. Remember that scene in Mandingo? You don’t think that happened on the plantation GBS? Get stanky. Black men were hung for looking at a white woman. White mens got jealous because the black men are gifted better by God and they too knew once their white wimens went black… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahah. So they put the miscegenation laws on the books. It’s a civil rights issue because you were telling one heterosexual person they had no right to marry another heterosexual person. So the man/woman issue is relevant because miscegenation was/is about heterosexual marriage, plain and simple.
Every major culture has embraced marriage as a unique connection between a man and a woman GBS. Jesse Jackson agreed with Shelby Steele “gay marriage is simply not a civil rights issue.” Jesse is praised as one of the great religious civil rights minds. Your side is making this a political issue GBS. Jesse thinks like you GBS on politics so he can’t be wrong on this, eh?
Now onto clueless wonder. Puddy asks again what claims to equality under the law? What law fool? You are claiming gay marriage is a basic human right? It’s discrimination otherwise? Need for benefits such as Social Security? Where is this in the US Constitution? Bill of Rights? Where is this in evolutionary law since you reject the Bible as a big time atheist? Why didn’t the big-bang theory have this as one of its’ “nature’s laws”?
Do you agree that certain persons do not have the right to marriage: children, multiple partners, family members, those already married, animals? Stillbentover and his dog? Steve, Ekim, Pelletizer and their sheep?
Puddy has noticed the HA weasel class claiming this is a civil right? How fool? Why do you and your ilk make the assumption that homosexuality is similar to race issues. You can’t hijack or co-opt what my peeps went through at the hands of the white man? Lynchings, burning at the stake, torching of property, raping of our female family members, hunted like animals, etc.
Even the original American Indians such as the Cherokee Nation had slaves. Recently the Cherokee Nation threw out blacks with 1/8 Cherokee blood because they didn’t want to share with Black Cherokees in the casino take. Where are the Black Cherokees civil rights fool? That’s why Jesse Jackson said “gay marriage is simply not a civil rights issue.” You agree with Jesse politically clueless wonder. He’s part of the big Donkey tent…
Hmm, It looks like the rumors I started of Puddy’s demise were premature.
You’re friends Mr. Klynical and Marvin have had a bad week, Puddy. Perhaps you can lift their spirits.
Mr. Klynical has practically begged to have his ass kicked by GBS. Should be an interesting lunch you all will have.
SJ and correctnotright were having an interesting discussion on immunology. They wondered if they were boring everybody and I popped in to say that I thought it very interesting as I had invested in a micro-cap bio that was developing immunology drugs. Next thing you know, Mr. Klynical arrives to call me a liar. One thing leads to another and next thing you know, we’re going to have the Great Trade Confirmation Showdown! To make a long story short, Goldy now has my trade confirmations and Mr. Klynical has run off in shame, failing to produce a single Wells Fargo trade confirmation. We always knew he was lying.
Marvin? Besides pleading for his own GBS ass-whupping, he was babbling about goats again. It’s like he’s got them on the brain or something. What’s up with that? The dumbest fuck on the planet, he was easily suckered into a “Does Marvin Fuck Goats Showdown”, which is to say that he spent all day yesterday trying to convince HA readers that he doesn’t fuck goats!! What a simpleton and fool he is!! So easily played.
Maybe your return can help elevate their game. As it was, RickD easily took this week’s goat for a wonderful display of gross stupidity and foul rankness, reminding all how he earned the handle, “Little Ricky Dumbass”.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Your friend Troll went off on “niggers” again. I really do get the impression that he doesn’t like black folks too much. And I have to say that, for a black man, you sure do keep strange company. Oh well, as before, you probably would have said nothing to smack him down. Of course, your other right-wing friends said nothing either. But that’s OK, the Libs took care of it. We’ll confront the race-hate, if you guys won’t.
Idiot @ 54
LMAO!!! What is this incoherent babbling?
Too funny and too sad…
You’re so damn ignorant. Yeah black folks went through hell. Gay people have been exterminated as well..
I don’t know. See the movie Milk or something and try look past the brief gay sex scenes – look at the example of Harvey Milk’s political awakening – no different from the struggle of any other minority group.
Yeah I know, not even possible for a moron like you. Go ahead. Prove me wrong.
Stupes, Steve has a point @ 55. Your batshit insanity is needed here, not for us libs certainly but your other insane buddies.
They’re on their last legs.
Your friend gbs went off on “faggots” and “cunts.”
Are you going to call him out for his words or since gbs is a left wing-nut do you approve of that kind of language?
When I think of milk, my first thought is about all those people that drank the jonestown flavor-aid and his connection to jim jones. Did you know that milk appointed jim jones head of the housing authority in san fran?
So there is a factual connection about left wing-nuts drinking the “kool-aid.”
That faggot Marvin is such a cunt!
Are you aware how offensive this is to blacks?
Think about the clinton plan, Don’t ask don’t tell.
Do you have any suggestions how a black man could not let people know he’s black.
60 – LMAO!! Yeah, politicians are human. They can be fooled. Look no further than the mirror to confirm that.
62 – Incoherent babbling. Is there a point here? Yes, the cops and thugs and the ignorant majority made life miserable for gays and therefore people like Harvey Milk stepped up and demanded redress for grievances through the political process – something that’s available to all Americans by Consititutional guarantee.
What about this is so offensive?
In other news of the week, Puddy, your disintegrating GOP birthed it’s first spawn, the Creator’s Rights Party. Hmm, you goopers really should reconsider this abortion thing. You might have spared yourself the humiliation that is Neal Horsley, Creator candidate for Governor of Georgia. Avowed protectors of blastocysts, these Creator’s aren’t too big on Roe v. Wade. And you remember Neal, of course. He’s the guy who posted a list of the names of physicians so he could help direct his fellow wingnuts to a kill. And then, when a physician was killed, he’d scratch their name from the list. Heh, wingnuts and the internet – so clever. So anyway, these Creator’s don’t like abortion. In fact, they want to desolve the nation so they can set up their own little Creator’s paradise down south. Heck, Neal even said he kill his own son if he could establish a nation where a parent couldn’t kill their own…, oh, nevermind. Speaking of Neal, you’ll recall that he readily admits to you wingnuts fucking mules and washing machines – we’ve talked about that many times. Heck, he’s the inspiration for tagging you guys as “goatfuckers” (has a better ring to it than “mulefuckers”). But what I heard him saying on the radio the other day was a new one for me. Apparently, wingnuts fuck watermelons! I’ve gotta say, I was floored! He then followed up by saying, “If we find a warm watermelon out in the field, we give it a name!”
Wingnuttery. Really, one couldn’t possibly make this shit up!
If you have any black friends, ask them.
65 – zzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz… Typical Stamn. Raising strawmen and then running away from them.
In my mind, I see no reason why homosexuals should not be able to marry. If two committed partners want to marry, that is a good thing.
Our president however does not agree with me…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U
I do not equate this issue with issues regarding race. Simply put, we don’t wear our sexuality for all to see, and because of this, the issues are forever separate.
Hey leftist morons
The comparison from black civil rights to gay rights is as ridiculous as most left leaning or leftist positions.
You might have noticed that no-one chooses to be born of a certain ethnicity. Good, bad or (more likely, to realize the King dream) indifferent, our ethnic background is a matter of birth.
People choose homosexuality. You can (and will) twist this any way you damn well like. However, behavior, sexual or otherwise, is a choice or no-one is ever responsible for their actions. Wishing to live in a sane and ordered world, in sharp distinction to my Chavez loving friends on the left, I think behavior is something society can reasonably ask that fellow citizens be held responsible for. In any case it is irrational for, at most, 5% of the population to set terms for the remainder. Have sex with other men, other women, for Steve with his obsession I guess goats, or whatever, so long as both parties consent. I don’t care. But don’t ask me to condone or give societal approval to perversion and deviancy. Act like an adult and realize your deviancy has consequences.
And, as always, try to answer the points from earlier posts. I tried in 28 to teach poor YLB and the braindead ByeByesanity a little bit about proper logical argument and YLB proves in his answer my points.
It is not an anwer to dismiss a whole chain of reason out of hand, YLB. It is simply a proof of the paucity of your thinking. Then to go off an a tangent misrepresenting an earlier discussion is simply stupid. Well, maybe you’ll get an education some day, leftist morons.
68 – Yawn… You’re utterly wrong about the development of sexual orientation. I’d advise you to read the literature but I expect next to nothing from a fool like you.
And you’re wrong about anyone forcing you to condone anything. Sure it’s your right to be ignorant and even try to impose your ignorance on everyone else through something like Prop 8 but don’t expect everyone to like what you impose. Expect pushback. That’s called democracy. Something sadly foreign to you.
Deviancy? You’re wrong about that too. Deviancy implies behavior that inflicts harm and most gay people don’t hurt anyone. Gay people just expect to be treated fairly under the law and homosexual couples should be entitled to the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couples UNDER THE LAW. Churches can do whatever the hell they want. Yes this is strange to many people but there is simply no credible reason to deny this under our system of justice as so many jurisdictions have concluded.
You have absolutely NOTHING to teach me about anything. I dismiss everything you write here out of hand. Your kind in my opinion is a blight upon this country. But I do accept you’ll always be with us and if nothing else you serve the purpose of keeping the more sane among us on our toes if exasperated that such ignorance must AGAIN and AGAIN be countered.
“In any case it is irrational for, at most, 5% of the population to set terms for the remainder.”
Set terms? I don’t see the demand for equal rights as setting terms.
“I don’t care. But don’t ask me to condone or give societal approval to perversion and deviancy. Act like an adult and realize your deviancy has consequences.”
This is your opinion. Your opinions are yours and there are many others that differ. I suspect there are issues which we agree. Two committed adults, who wish to pledge their lives too each other until death is a benefit to civil society. This has nothing to do with sex. This issue has everything to do with society recognizing committed individuals and sanctioning their commitment equally. This is my opionion. Homosexuals should be able to marry. There is no logical argument, in my opinion, against gay marriage when comparing to marriage between a man and a woman.
Not running away, you couldn’t grasp what I said in #62.
I’ll try again.
Why did Clinton institute a don’t ask don’t tell policy? Because, if someone doesn’t tell anyone their sexual preference or have sex in public no one would know.
A black man doesn’t have the same option.
If you looked at a picture of 2 people, could you guess which one is gay and which one is black?
67 – LOL!! Let’s see. Yes, Obama and Biden oppose gay marriage. That’s the downside of people from such humble roots attaining the highest offices in the land and to avoid the contentious issues of sexual politics so they can tackle more mundane matters like cleaning up after the atrocious mess left by the last resident of the White House.
We don’t wear our sexuality for all to see? Tell that to the next couple you see whose hormones are driving them to lock their lips together or pushing their progeny about in a baby carriage. Tell that to the woman who gets breast implants. WHY NOT wear it for all to see? It is inseparable a part of us as our skin. It is the reason why we’re all here. Ok you may make a credible argument that it’s inappropriate in the public sphere – apparently it interferes somewhat with the exchange of money for goods and services.
I do appreciate however your conviction that homosexual couples should have the same rights and privileges as heterosexuals.
Re 69:
Please cite the ‘literature,’ you wish me to read, or more to the point, that which you’ve read. Nothing? At all? Yeah, kind of thought so. Bravado doesn’t work with the rational, you know. They’ll call your bluff every time and then you just look stupid.
Deviancy? Yes. Poor choices that cause harm to oneself are still deviant, idiot. Social isolation and prejudice, family problems, sexual interaction that runs counter to everything the human body was designed for and other self inflicted harm are the result of the choice to pursue the deviant perverted homosexual lifestyle.
And I’m right about being forced to condone. In my name as a citizen I’m asked to condone a marraige that is an abomination to any right thinking person. There is a substantive difference here between private behavior and state licensed marraige. Prop 8, so you know, was pushback. Even in a benightedly liberal state like California citizens pushed back against the gay rights mafia trying to make everyone else feel guilty for their perversions.
Oddly, I think ‘your kind,’ meaning here liberals, have something to teach me. I don’t dismiss out of hand or otherwise the well intentioned liberal who sincerely believes that their political theories are better for this country. It is the hate mongering like Goldy and your depraved type that I deplore. It is the power mad hypocrites (of either party) who use populism as a tool for self aggrandizement that I deplore. But I, unlike most liberals, realize that political theories are just that. Theories. They are wrong about as often as right. Unlike most liberals I have a moral and ethical construct in my personality that doesn’t rely on a political affiliation. Probably this is why I can use a calm tone to refute your errant nonsense.
Are you admitting that obama is ignorant? Both obama and Biden are against gay marriage as I’m sure you know.
As far as pushback, HAHAHAHHA.
So far the gay community has only pushed back against the mormon church and miss california. As soon as they push back against black churches and obama I’ll believe what you say about ignorance.
Say, since you seem to be on a pro-gay theme today…
How do you feel about gbs and steve using the “faggot” word as an insult? Are you okay with that kind of behavior or will you “pushback” against that kind of language?
So if you’re a high ranking democrat politician, it’s okay in your mind to be, as you put it, IGNORANT about gay marriage?
Since you want to give both biden and obama a free pass about their IGNORANCE because of the humble beginnings, why won’t you give the same consideration to every IGNORANT person that grew up in humble beginnings instead of stereotyping all those opposed to gay marriage.
Like I’ve been saying for years…
Why the double standard. Do you honestly hold democrats to a lower standard?
71 – zzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzz. Ok confronted with your usual behavior you decided to repeat your strawman.
What did I say originally? I said people like Harvey Milk were driven to get politically active after being persecuted by police, thugs and oppressed by the ignorant majority. Harvey Milk didn’t move to San Francisco to live as an out homosexual until he was 40. He had been in the closet that long.
Gay people didn’t want to live like that anymore just like blacks didn’t want to be served their meals from the back door in exchange for their money.
What did you say? Some blathering about don’t ask don’t tell – a compromise to avoid achieving NOTHING AT ALL – exactly what right wingers wanted to happen. In other words your argument is a STRAWMAN distorting what I said.
Nice try.
Re 70:
Absolutely the law has not the right to discriminate against homosexuals. Two people going to court for a traffic ticket or to argue contractual obligations should be treated equally before the law. As a landlord I have not got the legal right to refuse to rent to someone because of color, gender or sexuality. In this you are completely correct.
Marraige is different. There are legally binding ways for a truly committed couple, gay or straight, to gain the benefits of marraige. Hospital visitation, inheritance rights and all the other rights of marraige should not be denied by the state on the basis of homosexuality. I would even go so far as to reluctantly concede civil unions to formalize state acknowledgement of basic rights. As sarcastic as the last sentence in 72 is, I do believe that any act consentually engaged in by adults is not the business of the state, except to maintain a level playing field.
Where does your belief end though? If a pastor, in full sincerity of his belief, preaches that homosexuality is a sin should he be jailed? Fined? It is his opinion after all, not a state policy, and anyone has the right not to attend his church. Obama, for instance, could have chosen to leave his church when the Rev. Wright began his rascist rantings. If I tell my son or daughter that homosexuality is a deviant and sinful behavior am I committing a hate crime? Where does all this end, really?
And words have value. Marraige, as a term, means something. It carries a millenia old freight of connotations and implications that the caprices of a generation should not be allowed to demean. Yes, my opinions on the matter of homosexuality are just that, but they are commonly held. They are commonly held because people instinctively realize that the building block of any successful civilization is the family. Not two dads and the dog. Not two moms and the adopted child. The father, mother and the offspring of their committed relationship.
I missed your answer.
If you looked at a picture, could you pick out the black person and the gay person?
That’s how the gay struggle is different.
How do you feel about steve and gbs using the “faggot” word as an insult. Are you okay with that or will you pushback?
I know, steve and gbs came from humble beginnings so it’s okay, like you say it is for biden and obama, to be ignorant.
75 – Another strawman. You love raising them do you?
You say they’re ignorant. I conclude they know better but they’re just avoiding a fight they can’t win so they can get other things done. Smart people choose their fights carefully.
They say they oppose gay marriage but support civil unions. Did the last monkey even support civil unions? I honestly don’t know. Answer that for me. I know he supported defining marriage as between a man and a woman.
Again politics is the art of the possible. Something that’s lost on a lot of people, most people maybe and something that disingenuous fools like you try to take advantage of.
You choose to see differences.
I point out similarities.
I choose to see how struggles are similar, how commonalities are possible bridges between ostensibly different groups of people
You choose division. So people are are kept separate in warring tribalism. So typical of the right wing.
I’m not ok with that. I try not to use those words personally. I leave that to right wingers.
“They are commonly held because people instinctively realize that the building block of any successful civilization is the family. Not two dads and the dog. Not two moms and the adopted child. The father, mother and the offspring of their committed relationship.”
I don’t disagree that the family is foundational in society. However by your own logic, 5% of the population, allowed to marry hardly is a threat to the institution, or dilutes it at all. Not every homosexual couple wants marriage. That is the same with heterosexuals.
YLB – no, people don’t don’t wear sexuality outwardly unless they CHOOSE to… which is completely different from race..
Not me, you are the one calling people opposed to gay marriage ignorant.
I only parroted your words about ignorance and applied them to obama and biden for their anti gay marriage stance.
I understand that gay marriage is not on the front burner for obama. If someone would have put on the teleprompter for obama to read- “I support gay marriage, although at this time there are more pressing issues in the country for me to work on,” that would obama avoiding a fight. Instead, he said he was against gay marriage.
If you are right and obama/biden do believe in gay marriage and only said they were against it, that’s a disgrace.
Some conservative groups expressed dismay Tuesday over President Bush’s tolerance of state-sanctioned civil unions between gay people — laws that would grant same-sex partners most or all the rights available to married couples.
I’m not saying that bush is right about any/every thing, but at least he stood up for what he believed. He took a stance that wasn’t popular with his party, if you are correct, obama took a stance he didn’t believe in.
I’m impressed you didn’t give them a free pass because they are democrats like so many others on this blog.
On this blog, it’s not the right-wingers using the word “faggot,” it’s the left-wingers. Go figure.
Start here fiend.
http://www.psychologymatters.org/hooker.html
and keep reading on. Struggle through the cognitive dissonance if you dare. That’s another psychological topic to read up on if you can handle it.
Most gay people don’t hurt themselves. Some do but then some straight people hurt themselves as well through their sexual practices.
Again imposed through the kind of ignorance you’re displaying here. If adolescent peers, parents on up weren’t so ignorant, gay people wouldn’t suffer nearly as much.
Are you referring to anal and oral sex? These are things that have been practiced forever by heterosexuals. Heterosexuals are no strangers to kinks and perversions or even disgusting practices like pedophilia and bestiality but they can still get married.
Again it’s your right to be ignorant. I’d advise you to reconsider but I’d never expect that from you. The bible in the old Testament says man on man sex is an abomination but leaves out any proscriptions on what two women might do. Maybe the patriarchs found that arousing or perhaps having multiple wives unavoidable!
Fallacy of equivocation. Of course there is. One is behavior and the other is a licence granting a couple to about 1000 privileges under the law that unmarried couple do not.
Ignorance and paranoia took grip of a majority of people. This is news? This unfortunately is an aspect of human nature. I’m confident it will settle out in due time like other mistakes in our past.
You’ve done nothing but insult and look down your nose at people here who think differently than you. Obama is different than you so you call him a socialist. Strange that a socialist would hire the likes of Larry Summers and economists from the University of Chicago to advise him on policy.
Hah! You’re the name-calling fool who said you hate Obama. For what? For doing what every Republican President did before him? Getting elected?
It’s a terrible thing to hate anyone. There’d better be good reasons. Being in the same room as Bill Ayers and a preacher like Wright in the throws of passion doesn’t cut it.
Populism. As in the popularity of demagoguing over gay marriage like Karl Rove did in 2004? Didn’t stop you from voting Republican then did it?
I don’t think you ever met a right wing theory you didn’t like. And remember your side is now calling Obama a fascist and even a Nazi.
You think you have a moral and ethical construct. It is pathetically static thing that’s getting a bit musty. I’d air it out a bit. Apparently quite a while ago you came to some strong conclusions and in the rightward tilt of the last 30 years your views were shored up. News for you: the world was changing right before your eyes. Cling to your outmoded views all you like but the world will keep on changing.
It’s very fallacious to assume that the mortgage meltdown is the fault of conservatives and Republicans. It’s a lot more complex then that.
Again you are calling obama and biden ignorant for being against gay marriage.
Nope, you’re wrong as usual. Many right wingers have used that word on this blog on many an occasion. Most recent fiendoflies used it. Lefty-leaning folks should know better.
87 – No I didn’t. I’ve explained myself on Obama and Biden and I won’t repeat.
@ 86
It’s very fallacious to assume that the mortgage meltdown is the fault of conservatives and Republicans.
Gosh. Here I’ve gone through all the trouble to point out direct causal chains from conservative and Republican policies–deregulation, tax cuts that added to an already significant savings glut and an absurdly loose monetary policy–to the current economic crisis. I’ve also pointed out the flaws in right-wing arguments seeking to blame the Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
It’s a lot more complex then that.
No shit, which leaves me to wonder why you think it rhetorically appropriate to ignore all of those arguments with a single, dismissive wave of the hand.
Notice anything which clueless wonder can’t answer a post his zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz or strawman argument appears? Otherwise he’d need to think and Neanderthals have a problem with that!
There is no comparison between the civil rights movement and the gay bowel movement fool. Too bad your small mind can’t fathom that.
BTW clueless wonder you didn’t say crap on Biden and Obama, AS ALWAYS!
Your explanation didn’t pass the smell test.
I find it hard to believe that you actually believe that obama/biden said there were against gay marriage only to avoid a fight.
Say…
How did obama/biden feel about gay marriage before they started campaigning for president? Oops, they were against gay marriage then too.
I don’t think ylb is evil or anything like that, I feel he has lived a sheltered life and doesn’t have many black friends to help him view life differently.
Ah, just put ya’ll in concentration camps.
JUST KIDDING!!!!
More retarded bullshit. Keep flaming away.
Crusader @ 95 spews:
More retarded bullshit.
Put a lot of thought into that response, didn’t you?
Keep flaming away.
I’m sure you will. You don’t haven anything else.
There are plenty of black gays fool. Not only they’ve come up against racism at one time or another they’ve had to deal with pinheads like you.
Moron.
I did. In comment 72.
Even Stamn caught that.
You’re such a blind moronic fool.
Of course. Your sense of smell is broken.
Believe it. That kind of thing is done all the time. You see a President discard a nominee for his cabinet even though well qualified to avoid an interminable, distracting political battle that ends up only hurting the President’s agenda.
Doesn’t matter when they decided they were against gay marriage only that their political calculus ruled out spending any capital on it.
Look at it this way, if the general opinion on gay marriage turned to majority support in just about every state out there who would be more likely to support it? People like Obama and Biden or people like Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney?
Keep up the fudgepacking!
100 – LOL! I rest my case..
I hope the right wing remains wandering in the wilderness a long, long time.
Wrong. What I “caught” was you trying to make the excuse that they kknow better and they only said they were against gay marriage to avoid a fight.
Like you said in #79-
If you are right, doesn’t that mean that both obama and biden both threw the gay population under the bus to simply avoid a fight?
Avoiding a fight with who? republicans? Did you already forget that democrats have all the power? Or do you mean a fight within the democrat party?
Let me see if I understand…
Sometimes presidents discard nominees so they won’t have to waste time fighting with the opposing party over the nomination. Okay, no argument, a good catch on your part.
Had obama/biden said they were in favor of gay marriage, who would obama have to fight with?
In my opinion, still not up to the homophobic level as steve and gbs using the “faggot” word.
And let’s not forget they are both lefties.
102 – Yep, I made a comment about Biden and Obama’s position on gay marriage. Take it or leave it fool. Stupes claimed I said nothing. He’s wrong as usual and you as usual can’t interpret what people write to save your life.
Obama and Biden merely stated the position of Dem Presidential nominees on gay marriage that’s been consistent since Clinton signed the DOMA into law in 1996.
The Democratic Party at the highest levels will support gay marriage when they deem the country is ready. 4 or 5 states support gay marriage now. It’s probably too early now. Of course a large portion of the rank and file support marriage equality and that will only grow.
The Republican Party will probably go the way of the Whigs before their members realize that yet again they’ve been on the wrong side of the issue.
You ask about a fight. The Dems are fighting on a number of fronts with Republicans trying to decide how to clean up after George W. Bush. Right now Dem politicians don’t need or want to answer questions about their position on gay marriage 24/7 for umpteen news cycles.
clueless wonder@105: All you did was parrot the party line on Obama and Biden. A quick Google search can see many Dummocraps saying the same thing. You get all your ‘original thought’ from the Internet. No original thought processes coming from that Neanderthal Granite encased hat rack you call a head. You didn’t give any original thought so Puddy again says:
BTW clueless wonder you didn’t say crap on Biden and Obama, AS ALWAYS!
Moron@97: So now you try the black gay argument because your original screed was aptly flushed by Puddy? What does being a gay black man/woman that have to do with the civil rights movement fool?
ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN!
Shithead@106/107
I caught you blind fool. You said I said NOTHING. I said SOMETHING @ 72. You’re a moron!
You flushed nothing but your own head down the toilet – many years ago when you started worshiping the likes of Limbaugh – an obese, drug-abusing blowhard.
I heard on the radio this morning that 42 percent of Americans support gay marriage and when you add in support for civil unions, it’s 67 percent. That’s a long way from the mid nineties DOMA era when you started jerking off to Limbaugh. You and your stinking party is increasingly out of step with a changing world and I’m enjoying every second of seeing a name-calling bloviator like you twist in the wind.
Sucka!!! LMAO at you!
Liberal kalifornia voted gay marriage down.
If a state as liberal as kalifornia follows the lead of obama and votes against gay marriage, it’s clear gay marriage isn’t as popular as you’ve been led to believe.
Hey Marvin the pervert – how is your wedding to the Oreo Puffybutt going?