Speaking of transit, I’m in transit today, so expect some light posting.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
So here’s the deal. We have N. Korea trying to figure out how to nuke us. We have the conflict in the Middle East. We have Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan…
And who are we relying on to work this all out so the world doesn’t end up with a giant mushroom cloud floating above it?
George (AWOL) Bush??????
Man we’re so fucked!
No problem we shall talk amongst our selves. Which is usually more interesting any ways. It would be really kewl if you would put up the message board I sent you so we could really go wild and not have to talk in your threads all the time. Here is the link agen in case you lost it. http://www.phpbb.com/
Ok now down to bizzness I would like all liberals to go read Marx at http://www.marxists.org/ and realize that we are basically socialist and stop being afraid to admit it and come out of the closet. Then the next step is to join a Socialist Party and support it so we can really get this country moving in the proper direction forward.
Here is the party I belong to but there are others http://www.sp-usa.org/ ok now that is done.
Republican please stay out of this and just go investigate the gay bath houses or what ever it is you do.
Yes turn left it is very scary when you look at the whole picture. It would be nice if we didn’t have a bunch of people that the most important issue to them is making the rapture happen
We need to un-involve ourselves in this Middle Eastern Quagmire. Let the Arabs and Israelis fight it out and get it over with.
There are only two groups of people who want the current conflicts in the Middle East to become, or recognized as, WWIII.
1. Islamic terrorist leaders, who yearn for recognition as leading a world-wide jihad against the “Imperialist Crusaders”. The Republicans think they want to attack American without us fighting back. On the contrary, they have spent the better part of two decades TRYING to get the U.S. to attack them. That way they can then play the victim, and call for support from Islamics around the world to come to the defense of their bretheren against the evil “Crusaders”. Seems to be working, at least as long as Bush is in office.
2. Newt Gingrich, George Bush, Karl Rove, Rumsfield, and Cheney, et al., who want another crisis so they can call us to “rally ’round the flag”, ignore the mess they’ve maken over the past six years, and impose censorship so they can prevent anyone from pointing out that the emporer has no clothes, and win one or two more elections. After all, they still have work to do. Even if the Federal Treasury is empty, they still have borrowing capacity against future generations, and they haven’t yet sold off all our roads, bridges, national parks, etc. to their corporate alter-egos.
We need to un-involve ourselves in this Middle Eastern Quagmire. Let the Arabs and Israelis fight it out and get it over with.
Commentby Libertarian—
I actually agree with that. If we would keep our big nose out of other countries afares we would be a lot better off . The only time I would be for intervening is if there as genocide going on like in Bosnia or Rwanda.
I would like to see all Foreign aid be with drawn especially from Israel and Egypt.
I say we round up all the republican corporate criminals confiscate their fortunes and replenish our treasury .
Then I would nationalize all cooperation’s fire the C.E.O’s. and put the workers in charge and unions, Have them elect the best person to run the company. And have it run for the workers benefit not the top 2 or 3 people at head of these big corporations. And for the benefit of the country at large.
That’s socialism and it would be better then these cooks robing our children’s future.
I would also make all land the property of the government and have people buy 99 year leases like the Indians do on there reservations. Then after 99 years the land would go back to the government. And we are the government so it would go back to the people. Like our National parks.
Now you can see why the Rich people are a feared of the Socialist :-)
Are you advocating for the implementation of Socialism without the ultimate goal of achieving the goal of a Marxist (Communist) state? I would be scared of Socialists with that agenda, since it’s a dead-end proposition. But then, I’d also be wary of Socialists with a complete Marxist agenda, as I think that, outside of its potential interest as a philosophical abstraction, Communism in the Marxist has proved to be virtually impossible to achieve in human society.
7.
Interesting.
Outside of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries, where has widescale nationalization of all industry been implemented?
In the West, outside of healtcare, France has a nationalized power industry, and, I think the PT&T. Britan flirted with nationalization after the WWII.
Otherwise, nationalization has been used in underdeveloped countries to wrest control of industries from foreign control.
Social democracies have used nationalization to deal with failure of industries to meet societal needs, but seem quite willing to leave well enough alone. IMO.
Does anyone know where Maria Cantwell stands on the Israeli/Gaza or the Israeli/Lebanon crisis ? How has her voting record been on other Mideast issues aside from Iraq ?? thanks
Why did Bill Clinton reduce competition among the major oil companies by allowing 6 of them to be merged out of existance?
Why did Bill Clinton increase the price of West Coast crude oil by allowing Alaskan crude oil to be exported?
Something wrong with the search engines on your computers spit and JC?
I think Socialism is a work in progress nothing is fixed in stone. It is an experiment .
Just like Capitalism is and Democracy is an experiment. It should be constantly evolving
Like we don’t have slaves any more we let woman vote. We let ordinary people vote and not just land owners.
I would like to see a hybrid Socialism and Capitalism.
I like the Holland model my self. :-)
“What they need to do it to get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit.”
President George W. Bush, July 17, 2006
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200....._bush_dc_1
#
Why did Bill Clinton reduce competition among the major oil companies by allowing 6 of them to be merged out of existance?
Why did Bill Clinton increase the price of West Coast crude oil by allowing Alaskan crude oil to be exported?
Commentby JC Bob— 7/17/06@ 8:31 am
That and other reasons is why I will never support Hilery for President
“What they need to do it to get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit.”
President George W. Bush, July 17, 2006
What a potty mouth :-(
President George Bush just informed the next generation of voters how large a national debt he will be passing to them as a result of his budget deficits, mis-management, and tax cuts for the wealthy:
http://www.bobrivers.com/news/.....14_big.jpg
lol that was funny
14.
It takes a Republican to display pride in the boorishness of the naked emperor.
Chinese president Hu must have been looking at his debtor, as he carped about getting out of town by 2:15, thinking that if he beholding the most importatnt example of, reportedly, democracratic elections, vive la tyrannie.
…that if he was beholding the most important…
Let’s see if the righties want to drill off the coast of Florida as much as they do ANWR. There’s 200 times more oil off Florida’s coast, then again, the republican Governor and Bush brother Jeb would get booted out of office if that happened so what we see is that the GOP is concerned about foreign oil reliance but not concerned enough to risk losing control of Florida’s Governor’s seat.
13.
When someone proposes the discussion of Marxism (particularly in the discussion area of a blog concerned with eletoral politics) and claims that the objective of socialism is total nationalization of industry, I would say the discussion is focusing on intent, not evolution.
Intent to do what is the question.
I think of it as a worker control of industry and the ownership would be the people. each worker would get shares of the industry they work in And like I sead it would be democratized were the workers would elect a head of the company .
I see a lot of liberals think that President Bush made a grossly unfair criticism of Hezbollah.
no there [they’re?]just cheap basterd [bastards?] that only care about “them selves”? and keeping there [they’re] taxes as low as posible [possible?]
Commentby The Socialist […………………………………………………………………………Please note “The Socialist” gives us a great example why Democrat NEA union controlled public education is a total waste of money and a total social failure.]
I say we round up all the republican corporate criminals confiscate their fortunes and replenish our treasury .
Then I would nationalize all cooperation’s fire the C.E.O’s. and put the workers in charge and unions, Have them elect the best person to run the company. And have it run for the workers benefit not the top 2 or 3 people at head of these big corporations. And for the benefit of the country at large.
That’s socialism and it would be better then these cooks robing our children’s future.
I would also make all land the property of the government and have people buy 99 year leases like the Indians do on there reservations. Then after 99 years the land would go back to the government. And we are the government so it would go back to the people. Like our National parks.
Now you can see why the Rich people are a feared of the Socialist
Commentby The Socialist [……………………………………………………….Roger Rabbit could not have said it better!! And Hillary, Fidel, and Kim Il Jong agree! Good work here, “Socialist”!!!!’
And your point is what that you spell better them me Whoopty Doo
I thought you were doing some in-depth investigation of gay bath houses our something
No problem we shall talk amongst our selves. Which is usually more interesting any ways. It would be really kewl if you would put up the message board I sent you so we could really go wild and not have to talk in your threads all the time. Here is the link agen in case you lost it. http://www.phpbb.com/
Ok now down to bizzness I would like all liberals to go read Marx at http://www.marxists.org/ and realize that we are basically socialist and stop being afraid to admit it and come out of the closet. Then the next step is to join a Socialist Party and support it so we can really get this country moving in the proper direction forward.
Here is the party I belong to but there are others http://www.sp-usa.org/ ok now that is done.
Republican please stay out of this and just go investigate the gay bath houses or what ever it is you do.
Commentby The Socialist […………….Another outstanding post that could have been written by GBS, Left Turn, K, Roger Rabbit, Hillary, or Robert Mugabe. This “Socialist” is the best Democrats have to offer!!!]
24.
No, there was nothing in my comment that expressed sympathy for anyone except the American people, who must suffer the worldwide loss of prestige and influence because of the dolt in chief.
Condi Rice said the “notion that policies that finally confront extremism are actually causing extremism, I find grotesque…” when answering whether the cotinued violence in Iraq has contributed to destabilizing the Middle East. I suppose all you righties find that prospect grotesque, I would to if I had supported the debacle in Iraq.
There was a time when the President of the United States could make a call to a head of state in the region to get cooperation to quell unrest, not any more.
I am a Socialist not a demarcate oh brilliant speller
The Texas governor’s race is getting to be pretty interesting. The incumbent Republican governor is polling only 35%! This might seem an ideal situation for the Democrats, but their candidate is stuck at 20%. An independent candidate, a former Republican, takes up another 19% of the vote. But only about 5% of the voters are undecided.
So who is it that is polling 21% of the vote, and taking quite a few votes away from both Republican and Democratic candidates?
Kinky Friedman.
“In a state known for its cast of larger-than-life political personalities, Kinky Friedman may be the most eccentric Texan ever to throw his Stetson into the political ring. At the very least, he’s the first Jewish cowboy to seek the governor’s mansion and probably the only gubernatorial candidate in the country who boasts about never having held a real job. His campaign slogans: “Why the Hell Not?” and “How Hard Can It Be?” Wherever he goes, he spouts corny, populist one-liners that can make him seem like a thawed relic from another era—which, truth be told, he kind of is. “I’m for the little fellers,” he exclaims, “not the Rockefellers!”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13...../newsweek/
I had to get a big kick out of his comments that “he’s never held a real job”, and “How hard can it be?”. Given Bush’s tenure as Governor of Texas, the first doesn’t seem to be a qualifer, and the second question answers itself.
yes he sounds perfect for the job down there. I m sure them there Texans will not let a jewel like him get away. :-)
Richard Pope @ 24
“I see a lot of liberals think that President Bush made a grossly unfair criticism of Hezbollah.”
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you watching TV or something? What bunch of liberals? What criticism of Hezbollah?
“What they need to do it to get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit.” — President George W. Bush, July 17, 2006
Somebody has been a very naughty President today. Condie is going to have to break out the leather riding crop and administer some punishment tonight….
I think this Socialist fellow is a troll. Seems like something pbj would do.
I agree with little of what you’re saying here.
J Craig Herman a.k.a. JCH, a.k.a “REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]”—you know, the guy who writes like he has syphilis of the brain—is also a media star.
And as you might expect, Herman’s 15 minutes of media fame is for HATE (of course!). More specifically, Herman hates Joe Paterno!
Now, if there is ever a reason to call someone an un-American fascist fuckwad, hating JoePA ranks right up near the top!
INCOMING!!
Goldy, Markos just linked to your Darcy Burner fundraising post. Throw some more coal on the servers.
That’s how it works, right? The coal powers the servers that propel internets through a series of tubes (not a big truck)…
Hey I just heard we’re sending Condi to the Middle East to ease tensions.
Yeah, like that will help.
I am a Socialist not a demarcate oh brilliant speller
Commentby The Socialist— 7/17/06@ 9:54 am
….
Yes, Socialist, I think we can all see that you’re not “a dematcate or brilliant speller,” but I think you’re just trying to con everybody that you really are a “socialist.” That’s OK: plenty of people in the blogosphere are running cons of one form or another. Pretending to turly be a socialist was a favorite pastime of many individuals in the past century. Heck, even the Nazis pretended to be socialists.
23.
Idiota!
You sniveling socialists, whining about the worker! The worker needs a job and a wage, control must be from an authority. Someone who looks at the big picture.
My piasan, Ferdy Franco cleaned up that mess in Spain you wimp-assed Anarcho-Sydicalists talked the peasants into. What a laugh!. Fight a war with soldiers who decide when they want to fight.
And my best pupil, Adolph, now there was a man who knew how to get things done!
You are all weak, you need to be regimented, marched in straight lines, you are happier that way. When you know what to think and what to say, you have completion as part of the machinery of society.
And I know what I’m talking about. I got thown out of many countries while attempting to implement socialism.
Then I got the big picture. Money talks and bullshit walks.
Get those trains running on time and the munitions plants humming — Everybody happy.
35.
He has the whiff of a fraud about him.
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W6NCFFbymL 84wMWJ6KG0Pl W6yzxMsG3rF
Commentby OeGdU1XjuR— 7/17/06@ 11:50 am
IpF5DiFVzlSxSj w2bvizaKzrXM0 OdEgcZuM3T
Commentby AZD81mBhji— 7/17/06@ 11:51 am […………………………..Democrat terrorists communicating with their secret “cells”?? I think so!!!!]
Currently, I suspect “socialist” myself. Can’t be RP-KKK can he?
I am a Socialist not a demarcate oh brilliant speller
Commentby The Socialist [………………………………………..GBS, Is that you??????]
“Wouldn’t this be a good agenda for America? Safeguard America’s pensions; keep good jobs for Americans; make college affordable for all; protect America and our military families; prepare for future disasters; make America energy independent; make small business and healthcare affordable; invest in life saving science; and protect our air, land, and water. You know, [Sen.] Blanche Lincoln [D-AK] has a bill to make healthcare affordable for small business. I have a bill I was talking to you about with respect to energy independence. We have legislation sitting in the Senate to address these problems.
“But with a Republican majority, that’s not their priority. So, we do other things. You know, we do things that are controversial. We do things that try to inflame their base so they can turn people out and vote for their candidates. I think we are wasting time. We are wasting lives. We need to get back to making America work again, in a bipartisan, nonpartisan way.”
Thanks, Hill. Give ’em hell!
Americans finally have stopped working for government. Many people are familiar with “Tax Freedom Day” — April 26th this year — when they effectively finish paying their taxes. But with government running huge deficits and imposing massive regulatory requirements, we all spend a lot more time working for government. Cost of Government Day (COGD) was July 12. Remember that when politicians cry about government being starved of needed revenue. [………………………………………………………………………………………………….”This is not good. Americans need to work for the “guvment” until late November or early December!!” [The Socialist, Roger Rabbit, Hillary Clinton, Karl Marx, Fidel Castro, Kim Il Jong, and Robert Mugabe]
Socialist
go to the library and get a dictionary. Sheesh.
Who wants $100/bbl oil? With the US either standing on the sidelines or supporting Israel, the destabilization of the rest of the ME is going on unchecked. Funny how markets don’t particularly like rapicdly expanding war zones.
Hold onto your wallet. Adults could do something about this; don’t depend on President Cheney to.
Well, isn’t that something that public shools perform better than private schools in most areas of study? You’d think that Bush would have just killed this embarrassing study outright instead of merely releasing it late on a summer Friday afternoon.
Socialist
go to the library and get a dictionary. Sheesh.
Commentby rwb [Socialist is Roger Rabbit!! Be kind to him!!]
Fellow liberals let’s be fair to wingnuts like J. Craig Herman, pbj, Puddybud, DOOFUS and the head-up-his-ass bet-welsher.
They want peace. They really do want peace.
The peace of a graveyard.
4
“We need to un-involve ourselves in this Middle Eastern Quagmire. Let the Arabs and Israelis fight it out and get it over with.” Commentby Libertarian— 7/17/06@ 7:21 am
We’ve never un-involved ourselves. The U.S. has its fingers deeply in the Arab-Israeli conflict; for decades, we’ve propped up the Israelis with massive foreign aid and sophisticated arms. Israel probably could survive quite nicely without us, and our aid is just frosting on the cake for them now, as they have a strong economy, are technologically sophisticated, and now design and manufacture their own weapons. But it ain’t gonna happen, because the Israel lobby is exceedingly strong in the Democratic Party (Jews vote 90% Democratic), and now the Repubs are jumping on the Israel bandwagon in hopes of wooing Jewish votes away from the Democrats.
Politics aside, the Arabs and Israelis did fight it out — several times — and the Arabs lost every time. So why isn’t it over? Because Israel keeps screwing over the Palestinians, that’s why. They take 90% of the water, all the good agricultural land, and occupy the Palestinian lands. If the Palestinian people accept this situation, they will live in abject poverty forever, dependent on Israelis for employment and the necessities of life — virtually slaves. So, Israel has put the Palestinians in a position where they have no choice but to fight any way they can, and nothing to lose by fighting. That’s why it doesn’t end. And it will never end until either the Palestinian people are wiped out, or the world forces Israeli to end its unjust and oppressive treatment of Palestinians.
Israel was founded in 1948 to create a safe homeland for a people who have been horribly persecuted through the ages and in modern times — the Jews. (They weren’t just persecuted by Hitler; they were also persecuted by Stalin and all the eastern bloc communist governments, and faced discrimination nearly everywhere else.) While the motive behind creating a Jewish state was understandable and laudable, over the decades since then, Israel has morphed into something of a bully. Unfortunately, the Palestinians forfeited any sympathy they might have enjoyed from the western societies by dirtying and bloodying their hands by committing unending atrocities, not only against Israelis, but also against citizens of the U.S. and European nations. Consequently, the unjust and intolerable treatment of the Palestinian people as a whole has gotten submerged by the emotional backlash against Arab terrorism. The political fallout of this includes little or no effort by western governments to put pressure on Israel to resolve the injustices that fuel the conflict.
And, of course, the conflict feeds on itself. Every time a Palestinian suicide bomber blows up Israeli civilians, the anger and passion against the Palestinians among Israelis and their supporters deepends. Every time another Palestinian fighter sacrifices himself in the conflict, the Palestinians’ determination to continue fighting deepens; the more blood of their kinsmen and loved ones they invest in the fighting, the more impossible it becomes for them to surrender or back off even a little. One certainly gets the feeling that for both sides, the conflict passed a point of no return years ago.
Is there a way to break the impasse? Perhaps not. Perhaps the hatreds are now incurable, and will demand to be fed with more bloodshed forever. But if there is any hope at all, the only way out that I can see must necessarily include negotiating a settlement that ensures Israel’s security and at the same time resolves Palestinian grievances. Israel will have to get the hell out of the Palestinian territories for good. There will have to be Palestinian statehood with all the trappings of sovereignty, including the right to maintain military forces. There will have to be an open transit corridor between the West Bank and Gaza, through which Palestinians can travel freely, without harassment or hindrance by Israeli troops or police. Israel will have to disgorge some of the agricultural lands and water rights that it has hogged for itself. And the rest of the world will have to pump massive aid into the Palestinian state to build infrastructure and an economy so the Palestinians can make a living. This isn’t rocket science, it’s a no-brainer. But getting from here to there … that’s the rub. I don’t know how to do that, our presidents don’t know, our brightest diplomats don’t know, I doubt anyone knows.
Ranier, remember, Seattle is Rain-i-er.
4 (continued)
If peace came to the Mideast tomorrow, our own Civil War experience teach us that it would take 100 years or more to heal the wounds. People who have lived through a bloodletting never set aside their hatreds of the “enemy.” The hatreds die only when they die. And because deeply ingrained animosities get handed down to successive generations, it usually takes at least two or three more generations for passions to subside enough that you can say “it’s over.” Hell, we still have people today who are sore over the Civil War!
In the Mideast, if peace comes tomorrow, we will have to wait for all living generations to die, and wait some more for their children and grandchildren and perhaps their great-grandchildren to die, before this conflict passes into history and is finally “over.”
That’s just the way human nature works. As Einstein observed, the way you get a new scientific theory accepted is to wait for the proponents of the old one to die off.
Roger at 54,
Wow, you’re sounding like you are not on either the side of the Palestians or the Israelis. I think we actually agree on this one, Roger – in a very convoluted way.
8
Careful here, Dr. E — I think you’re talking to a troll. “Socialist’s” posts don’t ring true. I strongly suspect a DNA sample will reveal traces of rightwing satire.
57
I have Jewish friends and generally support Israel; certainly, I support the concept of a Jewish state in Palestine, and I think it’s completely unreasonable for anyone to think the Israelis, who have their backs to the sea and nowhere to go, will defend themselves by all necessary means, including use of the nuclear weapons they obviously possess.
But I’m reasonably open minded, and I’ve come around to the view there are no innocents in this conflict, and two sides to the story. I was influenced in part by an e-mail correspondence I had a few years ago with a Palestinian expatriate living in the U.S. (we hooked up on a message board), which is how I learned that water rights is a HUGE issue in this conflict. Most Americans don’t have a clue what they’re fighting over, but this conflict does have many similarities to a good-old-fashioned shootout at the water hole between cattlemen trying to push each other off the range.
One thing this fellow told me was especially enlightening: He described suicide bombers as “a poor man’s F-16.” He said he didn’t condone it, but “understood” it. I got to thinking about it, and if you can get past the visceral reaction all normal people have to this tactic, it does make a lot of sense as a military tactic — if you can’t afford F-16s, and you’re fighting people who have F-16s. An F-16 costs around $50 million, but you can make a suicide bomb for $1.25, and a suicide bomber can do almost as much damage as an F-16, is the way he explained it. Like I said, if you can move your mind past the gore, and the normal healthy emotional response to the idea of people blowing themselves up to inflict casualties on unarmed civilians, the logic of a poorly armed population using this tactic against one of the world’s most powerfully armed countries makes perfect sense.
Mrs. Rabbit is firmly pro-Palestinian. My view is more balanced than hers; I tell her, “as long as the Palestinians continue killing Israelis and committing terror acts, they can’t expect anyone to listen to their grievances.” That, in my view, is just a fact of life, a reality.
#12 Thanks Tuttle , great tip , I googled up Cantwell and Israel , Gaza etc . and there isn’t squat as to where Maria stands on the Mid-east Israeli crisis . I still don’t have a clue . Is this going to be another one of those issues that we have to guess the Cantwell position . CAN’T CANTWELL JUST TELL US HER POSITION ,IN PLAIN ENGLISH ???
57
Well of course, like any thinking person, I would like to see the Mideast conflict get settled. I didn’t think I’d live to see the end of the USSR, but I woke up one morning to find the Soviet empire was no more!* So, this makes me dare to believe an Israeli-Palestinian settlement might happen in my lifetime, too. But that would be the miracle to end all miracles, and I have to say that I’m deeply pessimistic about the chances of that happening.
* I’ve always considered rightwing claims that Reagan brought down the Soviet Union to be grossly inflated. In my view, Reagan was a player, but not the most important or even the second most important player in that drama. The implosion of the Soviet system was inevitable and decades in the making, and would have happened without Reagan; but it would not have happened when it did, or peacefully, without Gorbachev. So Gorbachev was the most essential player. John Paul II was the catalyst — the platinum strand in the beaker — who lit the chain reaction. So, the Pope was the second most important player in the fall of the USSR. The righties, who glorify ignorance of history and all other forms of education, also overlook the crucial importance of the role played by Churchill and Truman after World War II in keeping the Soviets from overrunning western Europe by drawing a line in the sand at the edge of the Iron Curtain and making clear they would defend western Europe. This, of course, started with FDR who realized Stalin would become a serious threat when Hitler was defeated. These events were at least as important in shaping the subsequent history of the Cold War as anything Reagan did.
11
“Why did Bill Clinton reduce competition among the major oil companies by allowing 6 of them to be merged out of existance?
Why did Bill Clinton increase the price of West Coast crude oil by allowing Alaskan crude oil to be exported?
Commentby JC Bob— 7/17/06@ 8:31 am”
Given that you’re criticizing Clinton for his pro-business policies that leaned to the right, how is the situation helped by electing Republicans who are even more pro-business, more pro-free trade, and even farther right?
59 – I confess to not knowing much about this but I believe the families of the suicide bombers or “martyrs” as they’re called also receive charity in accordance with some interpretations of the Koran.
People who have lived as refugees sometimes several times over are driven first to the arms of faith and then finally to extinquishing themselves as a final act of seeking both justice and economic support for their families.
It’s a sad state of affairs and I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
54.
Israel is doing its damndest to get us involved in a war with Iran and Syria, because they know that beating Iran in a war, short of using nukes, isn’t a sure thing for them. Iran may have the upper hand. They’ve already set up Israel’s most successful opponent, Hizbollah.
Unilateral withdrawal from Gaza and the northern West Bank and the ones planned in the West Bank serve to incorporate into Israel large parts of the West Bank that Israel had agreed to leave during the 1990s. There is no mystery why Hamas got elected after that move, it cut the knees out from under the moderate Palestinians.
There was once some hope that pro-U. S. elements in Iran could lead to a government there we could live with, but the Iraq war has pretty well killed that potential.
Eventually, we’re going to have to tell Israel to really honor the agreements they make and get an international conference of nations to help in negotioations and money.
I don’t think Condi and George are up to it, and Cheney won’t.
13
Unregulated capitalism clearly doesn’t work. The period of our history when capitalists were given the freest hand — the late 19th and early 20th centuries — was a period of one financial panic and economic depression after another, and brutal working conditions for the millions of Americans who toiled long hours in unsafe and dirty conditions for a pittance in the shops and factories. It sucked, big time.
If economic theory works at all, then unregulated capitalism must destroy itself, because in the normal course of competition, the strong will drive out the weak until only the strongest are left, and no competition survives. This leads to absolute monopoly power, which in turn leads to absolute concentration of wealth. In theory, one individual or a few individuals would end up with all the wealth, and would hold absolute power over all employment and economic activity. Assuming you don’t have a strong and independent government capable of imposing confiscatory taxation and heavy estate taxes, this concentration of power and wealth would become self-perpetuating and we would end up with a hereditary economic dictatorship. Of course, this result would lead to revolution and overthrow of not only the economic oligarchs but also of the political system that made the oligarchy possible.
60.
Did you look at AIPAC?
She’s Aces with them.
Of course, most of the things AIPAC wants pass the Senate unanimously.
There are two things wingfucks like Mark the Retard just don’t get.
One is, government policies that prevent undue concentrations of wealth and economic power are necessary for the survival of the capitalist system; and,
Second is, a certain amount of redistribution (whether through government policies such as estate taxes, or private philanthropy such as historically practiced by nearly all of America’s super-wealthy individuals) to mitigate the inherent unfairnesses of the capitalism also are necessary for the capitalist system’s survival, because any system is in danger of being overthrown if life becomes too oppressive for the losers under that system.
And let’s face it, capitalism is NOT fair. Starting out with inherited capital, a family that can afford a good education for its children, and parents with business savvy who pass on what they know (and perhaps a going concern) to their children are huge advantages. Luck is also a huge factor in success or failure. Of course, a person can’t succeed without hard work and smarts, but it’s damned difficult to succeed even with hard work and smarts for people who come into the game with no capital and no other advantages.
I can live with the inherent unfairnesses of a capitalist system as long as social policies level the playing field enough to give everyone a fair chance. I would find living under a purely hereditary system of power, wealth, and privilege utterly intolerable.
There is no excuse or justification for rightwing policies that not only protect hereditary privilege, but seek to enhance it by eliminating all taxes on the capital-owning class and shifting that taxation to the working class.
There must be a balance between the distribution of rewards and tax burdens between those who make their living by owning capital, and those who make their living by selling their labor.
Of course, there is a great deal of overlap between these groups; many professionals and workers own some capital. That is a very healthy thing, both for them as individuals, and for society. It also ought to be obvious that support for the capitalist system is strengthened by spreading capital ownership across classes.
You don’t accomplish that by reducing taxes on those with the most wealth and income, and raising taxes on those with the least wealth and income. Our tax policies should go in the opposite direction: Progressive taxation puts the tax burden on those most able to pay, and gives those with little more than subsistence income a fighting chance to set aside a little of what they earn in order to gradually move into the capital-owning class. Without this kind of “social justice” policy, wealth simply concentrates, those left out grow increasingly disaffected and hostile to the system, and the system eventually will be overthrown as more and more people are left out, and the consumption of the winners under a lopsided system grows more and more ostentatious, conspicuous, and — to those on the outside looking in — obnoxious.
If you want to create revolutionaries, then pay low wages, tax the shit out of those who labor, and build castles for the rich on shining hills. Communists and socialists love to see that happen!
BIG NEWS! Latest polls show the republican US Senate candidate 19 full points behind a rookie Dem challenger. More bad news for the Taliban-loving right!
@1,
You need to wash that potty mouth out young man! You foul mouthed Donkeys need to read today’s article in the Times about cursing.
No point in worrying about all of this.
The voters in November 2007 will reject a $3.9 billion tax increase to build 11 miles of light rail across Lake Washington – especially if it is part of a larger Sound Transit package.
Under the law, if the Sound Transit package fails, so does the highway improvement package. Both have to pass in order for the tax increases to take effect.
The net result will be that almost none of the major projects partially funded by the 9.5 cent gasoline tax increase will get built. The 2008 legislature will then be free to repeal a significant portion of the gasoline tax increase.
pbj shill – Potty mouth? Yeah, right pbj shill. Why don’t you go over to Misha’s blog (I won’t link to it). Lot of clean, family-safe language mixed in calls for the hanging of Supreme Court Justices.
Right up your alley.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 7/17/06@ 2:34 pm
“Progressive taxation puts the tax burden on those most able to pay, and gives those with little more than subsistence income a fighting chance to set aside a little of what they earn in order to gradually move into the capital-owning class.”
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/.....ysmost.htm
“In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.”
“The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.”
“Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes.” (my emphasis)
I fail to see how these numbers show that an inordinate tax burden is being put on those making a subsistence living, since they pay little or no federal income taxes at all. If you have alternative numbers, I’d love to see them. Otherwise, as usual, you are just blowing smoke out of your HA. Or is that RA?
# 68 , thanks , i am beginning to get the picture , another Islamist leaning population and Maria Cantwell votes for every bullet , bomb and guided missle her Israeli masters inflict on the innocent civilians . Is there a body of followers of Allah anywhere that Maria Cantwell U S Senator from Wn state isn’t voting a reign of terror upon ??
@ 54, 58, 59,61, 62, 65, 69, 70, Roger Rodent,
Usual excessive amount of mouth spewings from you. Got a job yet? When you become a legit taxpayer, only then may you spew away….I saw a bumper sticker the other day that reminded me of you: ‘Work Harder. Millions on welfare depend on you!’
Roger Rabbit (Chipmunk)- Capitalism is a great whipping boy for those armchair revolutionaries like Chipmunk fortunate enough to live in a fairly free-market system. Wonder why every time socialism is tried it winds up in tyranny,i.e. USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, N. Korea; must be just an odd coincidence, right? By the way, I heard you call the Goldstein show and you sound like a chipmunk. Even your stage name is phoney.
Roger and Gang it appears that your friends don’t share your point of view about the Democratic Party.
Sen. Evan Bayh, weighing a run for president in 2008, challenged the Democratic Party to establish an agenda aimed at middle-class voters, a critical constituency that he said the party has let slip away.
“We may consider ourselves the party of the middle class, but too many middle-class Americans no longer consider us their party,” the Indiana Democrat said Monday. “They have left the Democratic Party in droves – costing us the last two presidential elections and the last six congressional elections. If we don’t learn some lessons, we’ll lose in 2006 and 2008 as well, and we must not let that happen.”
In his speech, Bayh said the party has focused most of its attention on the needs of lower-income Americans, but it also must address issues that matter to people on the next rung up the economic ladder.
“Without an agenda that speaks directly to the middle class and all who aspire to it, we will no longer be the party of Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy and Clinton. And we will not be a majority party,” Bayh said, invoking the names of former Democratic presidents.
Americafirst:
Let’s not forget what happened when socialism was tried in England, Sweden, Norway and the US. Damn that “We the People” stuff.
JCH Limbaugh [R-Spread your checks and lift your sack]: You seem to have a lot of free time. Are you trying to heal up your ass so you are ready when the fleet comes in and you have to play “sailor” again?
Wrong from the start! Don’t you guys ever get anything right?
Rodentia does not include rabbits; rabbits differ from rodents in having an extra pair of incisors and in other skeletal features. Rabbits, hares, and a few other species make up the Lagomorpha.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/m.....entia.html
They probably don’t talk about this stuff at the Discovery Institute.
Political economy came into being as a natural result of the expansion of trade, and with its appearance elementary, unscientific huckstering was replaced by a developed system of licensed fraud, an entire science of enrichment.
by Frederick Engels
Conservative First – What does this graph tell you?
ConservativeFirst @ 75
“I fail to see how these numbers show that an inordinate tax burden is being put on those making a subsistence living, since they pay little or no federal income taxes at all. ”
Ah, the conservatives’ favorite dodge: pulling out what is nearly the sole progessive tax left in our nation and using it to “prove” that the tax burden is oh-so-unfairly aflficting people making $1 million a year or more, poor things. So YES, low-income families pay little or no income tax. However, they are paying the payroll tax on EVERY dollar they earn from the first dollar they earn, while Mr. $1 million a year has his tender behind protected from the bad ol’ payroll tax for every dollar above $90,000 (that would be the last $910,000 of his amnnual income). Addtionally, sales and other regressive taxes account for a large portion of the low-income tax burden and a considerably smaller portion of the high-income tax burden.
Of course, it is also true that the federal tax burden for Mr. $1 Million has been dropping, while the middle class is paying a bigger share of American’s tax burden. We needn’t weep too hard for Mr. $1 Million.
Spit in the ocean,
I googled up Cantwell and Israel , Gaza etc . and there isn’t squat as to where Maria stands on the Mid-east Israeli crisis . I still don’t have a clue . Is this going to be another one of those issues that we have to guess the Cantwell position . CAN’T CANTWELL JUST TELL US HER POSITION ,IN PLAIN ENGLISH ???
Cripes…you fucking wingnut idiots are like bad undergraduates who thing everything in the world can be found on Google. If you want to know Cantwell’s position, you need to look at the Congressional Record. A few days ago Cantwell participated in a joint statement on the floor. I’ll repeat Cantwell’s part only.
Her voting record is easily available on line.
Grow the fuck up and learn to do your research before spewing your bullshit, jackass!
Im sure I make Liberals and Purest Socialist un happy. With my comments. A lot of my commentary are my own idea’s or an expanded upon idea from liberalism and Socialism.
And Communism has had admittedly many problems with it . But I still think much of the basic’s are valid and would work a lot better then the hart less capitalism that we see now a days
Most of the world is moving toward more socialist ideas like Canada and France and England and of course my very favorite country Holland.
Like I sead I have come to think a combination Capitalism and Socialism would work the best Holland is probably the best example of this.
But I guess I will make all un happy oh well TOUGH LOL
you fucking wingnut idiots are like bad undergraduates who thing everything in the world can be found on Google.
And wingnut blogs.
Mark1 @ 77
“When you become a legit taxpayer, only then may you spew away….”
Kindly shove your opinion up your ass, motherfucker. You don’t determine who gets to spew around here. Only Goldy can do that.
If you don’t like the rules, go start your own fucking blog and spare us your ignorant prattle.
Rabbit – The reason some people are poor, is because the CHOOSE to be that way. You are a perfect example. Instead of making real money like a real lawyer, you CHOSE to accept the low expectations and guaranteed security of gummint gig. That’s OK…it’s your life, but don’t expect The Producers to pick up the tab for YOUR choices. You got paid what you were worth. You made your bed; lay in it.
Same goes for the rest of the socialist losers with no money. If they contributed more to the societal good, if they were one of The Producers, then they would be compensated in direct proportion to the value they create.
There is NO FUCKING REASON for anybody to be poor in Murka. You can get a 100% taxpayer paid education through high school, and a 75% subsidy through state universities. If you lack the moral character or the drive to do it, then that’s OK, but don’t ask those of us who DID make the right choices to pay your bills. Anyone in Murka with a taxpayer funded education in the strongest economy in the world can become wealthy and comfortable here, and not have to depend on robin hood politicians stealing from The Producers and giving to The Takers.
DaddyLove: Don’t forget that the Real Estate Prooperty taxes, which go to pay many local government bills, is at best a flat-rate income tax, but is actually regressive in effect.
The tax rate, which is designated as a percentage of the property’s value, is usually fixed at a given rate. Only the value changes. Some argue that because the actual tax bill rises as the value of the property rises, it is a progressive tax. This is misplaced, since a “flat rate tax” is by definition not progressive, any more than is a flat rate sales tax. But other factors make it even more regressive.
Since residential housing usually has a minimum value in a given area, this has the effect of a minimum tax on each family, with the taxes increasing only in respect to increases in value, but at the same rate. So unless you are homeless, you pay a minimum real estate property tax. Even if you rent, it is incorporated into your rental cost.
For the average family, a very large proportion of their income goes into housing, and therefore is subject to the tax. In many cases this proportion of family income can be between 35% to 55%. For renters, sometimes the proportion is even higher.
As income rises, the amount of income allocated to housing becomes more discretionary, as additional income may or may not be allocated to housing. There’s certainly nothing wrong with this – everyone is entitled to choose whether or not to purchase a taxable item, or not. But when comparing the overall tax burden shared by persons with different incomes, it should be pointed out that higher-income persons have the OPTION of opting out of this portion of their income taxed, whereas lower-income persons have much less of an option.
Also impacting this issue is that the income tax deduction. For renters, the tax is real estate taxes are calculated as part of the overhead and therefore incorporated in the rental charges. They receive no benefit from the deduction. For small income families who do not have enough itemized decuctions to go past the standard deduction, the deduction also has no effect in reducing their income taxes. For middle income taxpayers, the itemized deduction does reduce their tax obligation to some extent. For large-income taxpayers, the itemized deduction reduces their income by a larger amount, equal with their effective (marginal) tax rate. In doing so, it partially offsets the progressive effects of the federal income tax.
So in the long run, while real estate property taxes are a “flat rate tax” on their face, they are regressive in effect.
Mark the Thieving Redneck @ 89
Your ideas about economics are even more naive than your ideas about statistics!
Hey…Thief, when are you going to make good on your bet with Goldy so that we can have that global warming debate?
Think of all the entertainment it will provide—I mean one of us will end up looking like a fool. And I strongly suspect it won’t be me! He, he, he….
“There is NO FUCKING REASON for anybody to be poor in Murka.”
Does “anybody” include the mentally ill, the infirm, the mentally retarded, or other groups that aren’t capable of educating themselves and/or securing gainful employment? And what are we supposed to do with those people, if the “producers” refuse to pay for the non-choices of those groups?
Were is this Murka I have never herd of it before?
Pay up bet-welsher! Settle the bet YOU LOST TO GOLDY!
We all want to watch you get HUMILIATED and DESTROYED by dj!
Are you scared? (I hear little frightened noises in the background.)
All it costs is $100. You’ll keep hearing the same until you settle.
There’s another reason for people being poor. The racist republicans do everything in their power to keep people from getting an education because it’s proven that the average post-secondary graduate votes Dem. And of course, if the rethugs can stop education they can stop gainful employment. They actually want there to be poor people so they can rule them with minimum wage jobs doing slave labor. That’s the GOP dream.
Im sure he will say the churches will take care of them. Never mind that there are to many people for the churches to take care of . Like all the churches haven’t rebuilt New Orleans ether.
They basically don’t care like he sead he is only worried about any of his tax dollars going to help those people.
There’s another reason for people being poor. The racist republicans do everything in their power to keep people from getting an education because it’s proven that the average post-secondary graduate votes Dem. And of course, if the rethugs can stop education they can stop gainful employment. They actually want there to be poor people so they can rule them with minimum wage jobs doing slave labor. That’s the GOP dream.
Commentby LeftTurn
Yes they pretty much want to turn us in to Mexico.
MTR at 89: Actually, that’s the goal we are all working toward – equality of opportunity. Everybody should be rewarded based upon merit and hard work, rather than accident of birth or the color of their skin.
But you see failure to become wealthy as a moral issue. This has its roots in circular reasoning, rooted in Calvinistic philosophy. In short, it says: “If you are moral you will be rewarded by God and become wealthy, if you are wealthy then you must be moral”.
You can see a lot of the same theology when you talk to people about divine healing. Certainly God heals people, but why doesn’t God heal everyone? As a popular book title asked, “Why Does God Let Bad Things Happen to Good People?”
In the economic sphere, we have lots of attempts, by people on both sides of the aisle, to give examples from both directions. Liberals will show plenty of examples of good, hard-working people who are still poor through no fault of their own. Republicans will counter with disadvantaged people who “pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps” to do well, finanically. On the other end, there are certainly some good, hard-working people who are rich, just as their are also plenty who received their money through inheritance or dumb luck and don’t have a moral bone in their body.
It’s not a moral issue. The subsidized education is, indeed, an important part of our society’s attempts to create equality of opportunity. But its only one step in the equation. Other obsticles must be overcome. And among them are Republican efforts to privatize public education, so that these equalizers are further eroded.
By the way, your comment only referred to education as a path to wealth. I presume you are referring to getting a college degree. But over half the adult population of King County already has a college degree. What will we do when everyone has one – argue over who’s master’s degree is the lesser one, so that person is designated to be the janitor in the firm? A college degree is great, but for society’s sake we need every worker to have a chance to own part of the American dream, not just those with a college degree. Otherwise nasty things start to happen in our society (subjects of another post).
Hey…Thief, when are you going to make good on your bet with Goldy so that we can have that global warming debate?
I like that link. Everyone should click on it.
And I like the comment after it:
You don’t expect a lying shitbag republican to own up to a bet do you?
Commentby LeftTurn— 11/12/05@ 9:34 am
everyone should watch this doc. http://video.google.com/videos.....ey+masters
Correction: second to last paragraph should read: “so that these equalizers are NOT further eroded.”
Yes they pretty much want to turn us in to Mexico.
Commentby The Socialist [You mean like Kalifornia….”Baja Norte”?]
Second Declaration of PDTI]
Declaration of the Independent Democratic Workers Party of Mexico (PDTI)
– July 6, 2006 –
Respect the popular will!
No to fraud!
Every vote must be counted!
For a march on Mexico City and actions in all the state capitals!
The country is not for sale! The country must be defended!
To Mr. Andrés Manuel López Obrador, leaders of the PRD and Obrador Citizen
Networks, and all working people
Dear Brothers and Sisters:
With the recount of the vote by the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE) on
July 5 and July 6, a new step has been taken in carrying out a coup d’etat
through massive fraud.
These are not simple statistical mistakes. This is “state fraud” of
monstrous dimensions.
This is fraud in which at first close to 3 million votes disappeared
temporarily, some of which were never later counted — with no further
explanations given. The election results were presented the evening of July
2 and throughout July 3 to give the impression that Calderón was the winner.
Later entire ballot boxes appeared lying in the streets or in city
dumpsters. This was documented widely. Violations of laws regulating polling
observers and the transportation of the ballot boxes were commonplace. These
were reported to IFE, only to be ignored. The vote totals for president and
for senators are significantly different. Countless other anomalies remain
unanswered.
There is no question but that a concerted effort was undertaken to take
votes away from López Obrador, district by district.
To impose this fraud and disrespect the will of the Mexican people, a “holy
alliance” has been formed.
This “holy alliance” is made up of the Fox government, the PAN, PRI, PANAL
and PASC, the Catholic hierarchy, the mainstream media in Mexico and in the
United States, the U.S. Embassy in Mexico, and the IFE functionaries.
The goal of this fraud organized against the nation and the workers by the
“holy alliance” is to impose a government of Felipe Calderón.
The declarations of the U.S. newspapers and of Gil Díaz, Mexico’s
under-secretary of the Treasury for the oil sector, clearly demonstrate that
this is a drive to destroy the foundations of the nation, in line with the
dictates of the IMF and the U.S. government, in a situation where the
governments of Bolivia and Venezuela are taking measures against imperialist
interests!
The editors of The Los Angeles Times say that Calderón needs to liquidate
the “private and state monopolies.” They insist that “the energy sector of
Mexico … desperately needs need private and foreign investment.” (What
this means is: “Mr. Calderón, hand over PEMEX to the transnational
corporations!”)
— The Washington Post editorialists have assigned Calderón the task of
“promoting greater economic liberalization, including labor reforms.” In
other words, it is necessary to accept the deepening of NAFTA with the new
North American Alliance for Security and Prosperity (ASPAN) and with the
removal of all tariffs upon the entry of beans and corn through a NAFTA-Plus
Agreement — to the detriment of Mexico’s agricultural sector and to
millions of peasants.
— The Chicago Tribune editors state: “Calderón will promote the free trade
reforms initiated by Fox.” Indeed, Calderón has already announced the
counter-reform of the labor code, taxes, and the Mexican Institute of Social
Security for Public Sector Workers (ISSSTE).
— For his part, Gil Díaz declared on July 2 in Santiago, Chile, that PEMEX
has discovered “giant oil reserves” in the Gulf of Mexico. The transnational
corporations want to take over these riches at all costs.
The future of the nation is at stake!
We cannot and will not permit the creation of a Calderón government!
We must raise the slogans “No to electoral fraud! The country is not for
sale! The country must be defended!”
The fraud of 2006, if successful, would have even more disastrous
consequences than in 1988. Imperialism has assigned Calderón the task of
destroying the bases of the Mexican nation, with the complicity of the PRI,
PAN, PANAL, PASC and the whole “holy alliance.” Their aim is to prevent the
formation of a López Obrador government. Their aims is to wield an absolute
majority in the Mexican Congress.
“It’s necessary to fight, Andrés Manuel!” wrote La Jornada newspaper on July
5.
In agreement with this call to fight, you declared you would call for a
vote-by-vote recount. We completely agree with this demand! And now you are
organizing an “informative assembly” on Saturday, July 8 at 5 P.M. in the
Zocalo of Mexico City. We support this call and will spread it throughout
the nation.
The machinery of the fraud created by the “holy alliance” against the nation
and labor rights will not be defeated easily.
Thus, we pose the question: Isn´t it necessary to return to the methods used
against the attempt to kick you out office when you were mayor of Mexico
City [the desafuero] and to prevent you from running for president? Wasn´t
the determining factor in this victory the demonstration of 1.2 million
people in the Zócalo on April 24, 2005 and the actions of 500,000 others
throughout the rest of the country?
In this new context, isn´t an even more vigorous and massive movement
needed, a cohesive movement organized on a national scale? To defend the
popular will, isn´t it necessary to call upon the 15 million people who
voted for you — as well as the millions who are outraged by the fraud — to
mobilize against the fraud and for the defense of the Mexican nation?
Isn´t a march on Mexico City, from all parts of the country, and protests in
all the main cities of the nation needed urgently?
At the same time, seeing as the multinationals and the “holy alliance” are
pushing harder than even for the counter-reforms against the nation, isn´t
is necessary, Mr. López Obrador, to raise in the demonstrations against the
fraud, the slogan “The country is not for sale! The country must be
defended!”?
From our point of view, this would mean calling for the full
re-nationalization of all PEMEX activities, the repeal of NAFTA, and the
rejection of the implementation of the clause of this agreement that permits
the massive entry of corn and beans into Mexico beginning in January 2008.
“We will not permit another 1988,” say millions of workers and peasants
throughout the country. They are right. It is possible to smash this new and
even more dangerous fraud! Mass mobilizations in 1938 made the expropriation
of the oil possible. Mass mobilizations of working people crushed the
military coup in Venezuela in 2002 and resulted in the nationalization of
the oil sector in Bolivia in 2006. At first, all these results seemed
impossible!
We pose a question to the union leaders who called to vote for López
Obrador: Isn´t it time to act? Isn´t it the moment to organize a march on
Mexico City from all the parts of the country? Isn´t it the moment to raise
again the need for a national labor strike?
We pose a question to the leaders of the PRD and the Obrador Citizen
Networks: Isn´t it necessary, in addition to the legal actions, to organize
massive demonstrations in Mexico City and all the state capitals? Aren´t
actions against the fraud springing up everywhere? Isn´t it necessary to
channel this will to resist?
For our part, we are calling on the workers and their organizations to form
united Action Committees Against the Electoral Fraud and In Defense of the
Nation and the Popular Will.
These committees aim to group together workers from all backgrounds to
propose in the unions, the universities, neighborhoods, and ejidos that the
leaders organize a massive demonstration in Mexico City against the fraud,
and in defense of the nation, together with López Obrador.
The Committees Against the Electoral Fraud and in Defense of the Nation and
the Popular Will will visit the leaders of the PRD and the Obrador Citizen
Networks, where possible, and invite them to organize a mass national
mobilization in all the country.
Respect the popular will!
No to fraud!
Every vote must be counted!
For a march on Mexico City and actions in all the state capitals!
The country is not for sale! The country must be defended!
— The Independent and Democratic Workers Party of Mexico (PDTI)
Contact in Mexico City: 5547-0161
eltrabajo@gmail.com
***********************
[First Declaration of the PTDI]
Declaration of the Independent Democratic Workers Party of Mexico (PTDI)
– July 3, 2006 –
In the Face of the Threat of Electoral Fraud
In the Face of the Threat of Instigated Chaos and Confrontations in the
Country
*Mr. Andres Manuel López Obrador,
*Leaders of Workers’ Organizations in the City and Countryside,
*Working people:
On July 2 the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE) refused to announce the
preliminary results of the presidential election. There is nothing to
justify this decision. In reality they are preparing fraud.
An unprecedented institutional crisis has been created in our country.
Everything indicates they intend to deny your victory, Mr. Andrés Manuel
López Obrador, in this election. This is not simply electoral fraud as was
undertaken by the PRI in the 1998 presidential election, through which
Salinas de Gortari was handed the presidency.
This is an attempt to establish a situation of chaos in the country, one
that will only benefit U.S. imperialism and the multinationals, which seek
to dislocate the nation in order to directly control our natural resources,
primarily our petroleum resources.
The position of the New York Times, the organ of North American imperialism,
is symptomatic — it hails the position of the Federal Electoral Institute
of not declaring the results of the presidential election.
You indicated that the PRD surpassed Felipe Calderón, the presidential
candidate of the PAN, by at least 500,000 votes. Calderón — a pawn of
imperialist interests, as a journalist from La Jornada correctly points
out — has declared himself the winner, quoting manipulated polls.
The PRI, which by all accounts lost by a landslide in the elections,
pressured the IFE not to announce then preliminary results, and then
threatened not to recognize your victory, Mr. Lopez Obrador, and to call on
its governors and union leaders to promote confrontations and repression
such as has occurred in Oaxaca and Puebla.
Mr. Andrés Manuel López Obrador:
The unity of the nation is in danger. U.S. imperialism is pushing for
division and chaos in the country just as it is doing in the rest of the
continent. For example, in Bolivia the local oligarchies, with the support
of the U.S. Consulate, have sought to impose “autonomy” in order to have
their own regional authority to administer and deliver oil on behalf of the
multinationals. Nonetheless, the Bolivian people have rejected this
“autonomy” proposal on this very day of July 2nd. In Mexico we see the
beginning of such an operation of division at the behest of imperialist
interests.
You declared in your campaign that you were opposed to the privatization of
PEMEX. To avoid the chaos that Calderon and Madrazo of the PRI would bring
us, it is necessary to unify the nation in defense of our natural resources,
defending our petroleum resources, and returning to the content of the
decree of oil expropriation of March 18, 1938.
Mr. Andrés Manuel López Obrador:
You declared in your campaign that you rejected the clause of NAFTA that
would completely open up the importation of corn and beans in 2008. This new
clause would completely devastate our countryside. We support your stance,
and we say that to defend employment and to avoid the continued emigration
of millions of Mexicans to the United States, it is necessary to stop the
application of NAFTA and to reject the signing of the NAFTA-Plus agreement.
We call on you, and on the leadership of the PRD and the leadership of
worker and campesino organizations that place themselves in the terrain of
defense of the sovereignty of the nation, to call on working people to
mobilize against this attempt to impose electoral fraud this Wednesday, July
5 in the Zocalo of Mexico City and in the main plazas of the major cities in
the country.
The Organizer Newspaper against the Fraud in Mexico :
With the demonstration of more than one million people in Mexico City over
one year ago, the attempt to deny you the right to run as the presidential
candidate of the PRD was defeated. Today, to stop the fraud, we need to
mobilize the millions of workers who elected you president.
We call upon you to stand firm in defense of the Mexican nation by speaking
out for the complete re-nationalization of PEMEX in accordance with the
agreement contained in the expropriation decree of 1938. We call upon you to
speak out for the return of the spirit of Article 27 of the Mexican
Constitution in relation to the defense of the countryside, rejecting the
destruction of our agriculture and the growth of poverty and unemployment
brought by NAFTA.
For our part, we call on the workers and their organizations to form
Committees Against the Fraud and For Unity For the Defense of National
Sovereignty and For Workers’ Rights to promote these demands.
— The Independent and Democratic Workers Party of Mexico (PDTI)
Contact in Mexico City: 5547-0161
“Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes.” […………………………………………………………………………This can’t be true because Roger Rabbit believes otherwise! hehe, JCH Kennedy]
“Progressive taxation puts the tax burden on those most able to pay, and gives those with little more than subsistence income a fighting chance to set aside a little of what they earn in order to gradually move into the capital-owning class.”
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/.....ysmost.htm
“In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.”
“The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.”
“Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes.” (my emphasis)
I fail to see how these numbers show that an inordinate tax burden is being put on those making a subsistence living, since they pay little or no federal income taxes at all. If you have alternative numbers, I’d love to see them. Otherwise, as usual, you are just blowing smoke out of your HA. Or is that RA?
Commentby ConservativeFirst […………………………………….Outstanding post!!!!!!!……….Er, Socialist, RR, Left Turn, YOUR COMMENTS? hehe, JCH]
I’ve got news for ya boys… globalization is going to continue, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it. Not even The Smartest Woman In The World. The forces involved are infinitely larger than a person, a group, or a nation. You can complain about it, but you’ve got two choices: 1) Fight it and hope you can slow it down just enough to hang on, or 2) Embrace it, become part of it, help make it happen, and move up the value chain in the process.
The comment about janitors with masters degrees proves you guys really don’t understand wealth creation, and the world beyond your noses.
Crime is on the rise, the headlines tell us. Just steer clear of Minneapolis, we suburbanites reassure ourselves, and you’ll be fine. But the once-charmed suburbs are hardly immune. **SNIP** Two groups of juveniles accosted each other while waiting for a movie, and a fight broke out. The youths — all Minneapolis residents — identified themselves as members of Hispanic gangs, the Sureños 13 and Los Vatos Locos… [……………….This is great!! Young Mexican Democrats in MINN show us the value of “diversity”!!!!!!]
The immigration agent didn’t like the looks of Manuel Pardo’s Social Security card. When the 20-year-old from Mexico was questioned, he admitted it was fake. Pardo and several other immigrants were picked up at a brothel in Dover that night in June 2003, a Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office report shows. Five months earlier, Pardo tried to attack some people with a shovel and was charged with aggravated assault. He served 24 days in county jail. [………………Just a new Mexican Democrat doing the work Democrats on welfare and food stamps refuse to do!!!!!!]
Every one should read this to!! I mean liberals not the brain dead republicans boob’s.
http://www.marxists.org/archiv.....r/ch03.htm
This is a good one to http://www.marxists.org/archiv.....r/ch02.htm
Mummified sez: “Chinese president Hu must have been looking at his debtor, as he carped about getting out of town by 2:15, thinking that if he beholding the most importatnt example of, reportedly, democracratic elections, vive la tyrannie.
Commentby Harry Tuttle— 7/17/06@ 8:52 am
The rest of the comment was he wanted to release his Russian security detail. But then again why would mummified tell the whole truth?
Hey moonbats did you see your vaulted leader Howie Dean is on the side of Hezbollah? The Arab League came out against Hamas and Hezbollah. Wow it’s a great day to be a moonbat!
# 85 , I got the message , Does Maria Cantwell , U S Senator from the State of Washington , participate in this mumbo jumbo after the bombs are shot into the Gaza and beach tourists are indiscriminately murdered or after ?? I am to understand for the last 6 years Maria Cantwell has voted to send BILLIONS of dollars to the nation of Israel in the form of missles , bombs and war technology and that very foreign aid is being used to punish Arab civilians . Maybe you know , as google can’t muster a reply , Maria won’t give it . How can She write the checks for these atrocities and wring your hands when war crimes are committed ? , ” in our name ” .
Turns out Baby Bush is not only afraid to death of N. Korea, he’s afraid of Iran too. We know these countries have or will have nukes but BabyBush is too chickenshit to do anything about it. Yet he was willing to put our great, great, great grandchildren into debt to stop Saddam from having a few sparklers and M80s!
I’ve got news for ya boys… globalization is going to continue, and there’s nothing anybody can do about it.
Good God in Heaven! MTR and I agree on something! Call the press!
Well, halfway anyhow.
“Globalization” is a grab bag of stuff, some good, some bad, and yes, mostly unavoidable. The issue is how to deal with it.
1) Transport is dirt cheap. Modern logistics has brought the cost of moving things from point a to point b down to nothing. Getting a 20-foot container from Asia to Seattle is now about $600-900, depending on the exact port of departure, blah blah.
2) Telecommunications is also dirt cheap. All those billions of dollars in fiber optic lines that were laid in the 90s have been bought up by bottom-feeders in this decade and are being used for a song. I was moderately amused the other day to find that a long-distance call to relatives in Italy costs less per minute than a local call to relatives in rural Washington.
3) Current economic theory (sometimes known as “golden handcuffs”) says that if you keep your budget deficits low (i.e. curb government spending in relation to taxation) and keep tarriffs low, your economy will grow. The effects of low deficits are pretty much indisputable. There is a finite supply of money sloshing around. Less being put in the public sector leaves more available for private sector investment. Applying this theory indiscriminately (i.e. the “starve the beast” model favored by Grover Nordquist and our local trolls) leads to some things that I don’t agree with at all. Low tariffs are a little trickier. We agree to low tariffs on manufactured goods in the expectation that opening our markets for manufactured goods will allow us to negotiate for lower barriers to services in the developing world. This may not be a good idea. See below.
4) Whatever the effect of globalization on manufacturing, the effects on services will be much more profound. You can fiddle the costs on hard goods by imposing tariffs. This is not without some very real costs in terms of competitiveness (protected industries are generally not good industries). You cannot, as a matter of practice, slap a tariff on bits going over the Internet. Services that can be done remotely will be done remotely, in the lowest cost market that will support them. $25K a year will support you pretty damn well in Thailand. Too bad if you have your heart set on plying your trade in Seattle or Vancouver.
Where I disagree with MTR and the other trolls is how to deal with this. Climbing the value chain is good advice that everyone should take. The problem is, a fair percentage of the population is just not bright enough to be systems integrators, technical writers, or even options traders. No form of government will change this basic fact of the bell curve of human intelligence. The righty answer of “fuck ’em and let ’em hang”, is not only cruel, but not socially viable. Large populations of hungry, disenfranchised, and pissed off people tend to cause trouble. Ask any member of the French aristocracy that managed to keep their head after the Revolution. Creating a large welfare state is expensive, and creates its own problems with an entitlement culture.
As a matter of good policy, you need to find paying jobs for these folks. The question is, how, and doing what?
iwy04eNIQnc 2hdeczSJJLdJtk r4JOR3Um8I
@ 109-110:
Silly Socialist, Marx is for kids!
Every one should read this “to”!! I mean liberals not the brain dead republicans boob’s.
Commentby The Socialist […………………………………………Roger Rabbit! Is that you???]
Moonbats you should visit Captain Ed. Read his Israeli entries. You won’t read this in the Seattle or NY Times. While there you’ll see all about Saddam’s weapons programs.
LeftTurdy opened it up with: “So here’s the deal. We have N. Korea trying to figure out how to nuke us. We have the conflict in the Middle East. We have Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan…
And who are we relying on to work this all out so the world doesn’t end up with a giant mushroom cloud floating above it?
George (AWOL) Bush??????
Man we’re so fucked!
Commentby LeftTurn— 7/17/06@ 6:51 am
Now let’s try and educate LeftTurdy. Do you read the Jerusalem Post Leftturdy?
Hmmm… Do you remember the Oslo Accords? Israel give back the land to the Palestinians and they’ll stop attacks. Well in Wikipedia:
“The Oslo Accords, officially called the Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements or Declaration of Principles (DOP), were finalized in Oslo, Norway on August 20, 1993, and subsequently officially signed at a public ceremony in Washington D.C. on September 13, 1993, with Mahmoud Abbas signing for the Palestine Liberation Organization and Shimon Peres signing for the State of Israel. It was witnessed by Warren Christopher for the United States and Andrei Kozyrev for Russia, in the presence of US President Bill Clinton and Israel’s Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin with the PLO’s Chairman Yasser Arafat.
The Oslo Accords were a culmination of a series of secret and public agreements, dating particularly from the Madrid Conference of 1991 onwards, and negotiated between the Israeli government and the Palestine Liberation Organization (acting as representatives of the Palestinian people) in 1993 as part of a peace process trying to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Despite the high hopes expressed in the Accords and in the subsequent agreements, which also promised the normalization of Israel’s relations with the Arab world, the conflict has not been resolved.”
Now Turdyman why haven’t the peace come about? When the settlers left they had a tulip farm with greenhouses. Your friends the islamofascists destroyed the greenhouses and installed their missiles to attack the Israeli cities. Give peace a chance. And they’ll kill you! So thank Warren Christopher for weakening Israel.
You can thank Madeline Halfbright for North Korea. Why were the fuel rods left there Turdyboy?
I already gave you issues of Iran turdyboy. Your lack of education is a microcosm of moonbats on ASSes!
Puddybutt I STILL can’t hear you because your wife and sister are STILL screaming in my love bed!
106 – Bet welsher you can be the spokesman of God Almighty Hisself and we won’t give a damn what you say until
you make good on the bet YOU LOST TO GOLDY.
$100 is all it takes weasel.
Has Dr. Redneck published his paper in Science yet?
Ah this is great. The Jews have been set free to do what they should have done 20 years ago. It is great to see terrorist being knocked off by hundreds and hopefully by the thousands in the near future. Today lebenon, tomorrow Syria and Iran. Bombs away!!!!!
Trivia question: Who is Dan Rather? Puddybud? Proud? MTR? Jeffery Dalhmer?
Answer: All five.
Anybody out there no how to get MS Word to make a eighth note rest?
Yes.
jsa – You’re right. THere’s a fascinating book that came out a few months ago called “The Box” that gives the whole history of the shipping container, the transformation of the shipping industry, and the effect that it had on world trade.
Globalization of capital markets was the next thing that happenened. Interest rates and exchange rates “flattened” the world (to use Friedman’s term).
Networks and the internet were the latest piece of the puzzle. Anything that can be done digitally will be outsourced where the best value can be obtained. NOT lowest price necesarily…. best value…
You may be right that some people won’t make the transition. Some can’t. Most however, simply won’t do it because they’re too fucking lazy, too fucking stoopid, or simply lack the moral character. As I said earlier, with the lavishly funded taxpayer schools, there is no reason for anyone in Murka to not have marketable skills. That said, if they’re looking for sympathy from me because they got left out, they’ll find it in the dictionary between “shit” and “syphlis”.
Good thing MTR has moral character. Yup, let’s murder all the muslims.
I take it that once the genocide begins MTR will be there to provide ingenious engineering for the concentration camps, gas chambers and mass graves. Hey, MTR, will you also try to get a corner on the market for all of the extracted gold fillings?
No, really, it’s all about PRODUCING. It’s about making MONEY. Why not corner the market on gold fillings once the genocide begins? After all, this is WWIII. It’s a WAR, you know? There are jobs to do, like extracting the gold fillings. We’ve got to recoup our investment somehow, you know? And why not look to the private sector to get the work done. They are, after all, more efficient and effective than government bureaucrats.
I have great trust that MTR will do a great job in engineering whatever aspect of the muslim genocide put under his charge. Because clearly this is a man of uncommon vision, drive and utter brilliance.
Yes, MTR is the archetypal Man of Our Time.
Thumb – Tell me, what good has come out of the middle east in say… the past thousand years? They had a pretty good run there for a while with algebra, the pyramids, and the notion of zero. But they’ve had a kinda dry spell for a while doncha think? They don’t produce anything. They aren’t known for great universities. They aren’t known for great art. They certainly don’t have an admirable culture.
All they’ve brought to the world in the past thousand years is violence, hate, and death. That’s pretty much it. It’s about fucking time that they joined the civilized world. So we’ve gotta clean out the troublemakers. The problem I have is that the so called “moderates” don’t say shit about it, which to me suggests they support it.
If I’m wrong correct me…
MTR, I realize that PRODUCERS must guard their trade secrets, but perhaps you could share with us just a wee bit about how each of us could cash in on the muslim genocide. Any tips for which services would be most lucrative to the savvy PRODUCER? Or how about stocks to watch. For example, should we start investing in manufacturers of gas chambers, or will some other type of technology take off with the onset of the genocide?
Don’t be coy, MTR, walk your talk. We all want to know about how we too can become billionaires. Which extermination technology would YOU invest in?
MTR, I’m thinking that one potentially HUGE profit center would be dispensing with all the bodies. Do you think there would be a way of recycling the materials, e.g., some type of co-generation plant? Or perhaps you could make feed for cattle? Have you researched any of this?
“Tell me, what good has come out of the middle east in say… the past thousand years?”
You know, there was a pretty good book by Howard Turner that came out a few years back called “Science in Medieval Islam.” You might learn a thing or two from it. In the field of cosmology alone, muslim scholars were centuries ahead of their counterparts in Europe.
Dr. E, you don’t “get” it. All contemporary muslims are either terrorists or fellow travelers. The must be exterminated. End of debate.
What matters now is how to do it. This is WWIII. It’s a commodity war. You can either be a bystander or a big winner. Which will it be?
I’ll cash in on all the left-over kebab stands.
Anything that can be done digitally will be outsourced where the best value can be obtained. NOT lowest price necesarily…. best value…
Best value is a good term. However, “market forces” will freqently tolerate lower quality goods if the price is right. We’ll say widget X is made in the USA. It is made of stainless steel, was properly engineered, has an expected lifespan of 20 years and costs $Y. Widget Z is made in China. It has an expected lifespan of 10 years and costs $Y/3. Having arbitraged out that I will have to buy 2 brand Z widgets, and assuming that the cost of widget Z breaking down before its end of life is not greater than $Y/3, the cold-hearted side of me that counts dollars says that I’m better off buying cheap-ass plastic shit from China.
Speaking of China, a heartwarming report from my former residence. I used to live in Taiwan. If you ever wanted a really good laisez-faire success story, that place was it. 6% income tax. 4% sales tax. No social security, no welfare. Good, hard-working, highly educated labor force. Hard-nosed schools. Talk shit in a Taiwanese classroom, and you will get a truly unforgettable thrashing. Strong study ethic as well. Most parents pushed their kids really hard to improve themselves. Crime was low, unemployment wasn’t in the dictionary. If you weren’t a braniac, there was plenty of work in the factories to keep you busy. Other than being dirty, ugly, and polluted as fuck, Taipei was pretty cool.
(and yes, I had a damn good time there)
Unfortunately, the same forces that pushed the first wave of outsourced manufacturing to Taiwan, also pushed the next wave over to China. The people who had the cojones to make that jump were rewarded well in every way imaginable. The sort of wages that made you a tolerable middle manager in Taiwan made you a rock star in Xiamen, with groupies to match.
The people who were working the factory lines? Well, once those lines stopped running, they kind of got fucked. It’s not laziness either. There just ain’t many people standing around saying “I deserve a living. Give me money.”. Now there’s unemployment, a lot more crime, and even the people who still have jobs think the place has gone to hell in a handbasket.
There are truly lazy people in the world. I like to think they’re a pretty small percentage of people. If you have one layabout kid in your house, you can give her or him a swift shove and say “go get a job you lazy bum!”. When that’s 20% of your population, that doesn’t work any more.
Interesting narrative, jsa . . . thanks. It sounds like everyone is dispensable.
Green Thumb, you are getting it with Redneck and the rest of ’em. They are shameless cowards who will do anything they can and screw anybody they can to make their’s. Yeah, given the right time and a chance to not be found out, they’ll lynch, lie, and lay whole ethnic groups of people in the ground just to have their little bank accounts. But, it’s the unearned medals for cowardice that gets to me. These are guys who hide behind bushes and then are first in line to collect their medals. Their kids will probably follow in their cowardly footsteps.
Skagit:
Yep, that’s kind of the point of my story. Everyone IS dispensable. There aren’t any easy answers to any of this.
My summer reading has included Thomas Friedman’s “The World Is Flat”. Friedman’s relentless cheerleading of globalism frankly annoys me, even if I have to grudgingly accept that his premises are fairly sound. Just the same, I’ll try to finish it before summer is out.
Did you read The Lexus and the Olive Tree? Wondering what you take was on that . . . I did not read it. I heard a lot of discussions of it and several more recently that take issue with his observations. According to some, things haven’t turned out quite the way he predicted.
Also, I believe – not based on anyone else’s documentation – that eventually James Kuntsler’s notions will win out. We will be forced back into urban communities and will look to no farther than the farmer, shoemaker, and doctor close to home. He thinks this will all be dictated by our energy crisis.
I’m kind of hoping that it will turn out that way. I think we make better decisions when the effect of our decisions are local.
Trivia question: Who is Dan Rather? Puddybud? Proud? MTR? Jeffery Dalhmer?
Answer: All five.
Commentby Green Thumb— 7/17/06@ 9:21 pm
I thought Dan was a lefty!
Green Thumb, since you and otheer moonbat like islamofascists, contact Al-Jazeera and mention you’d like to sponsor one in the US. Did you see Canada will let one in even if they are on the terror watch list? You can go up there and get one you dumb moron!
These people will kill you in a second becuase you believe in the following things they don’t:
Drinking binges
Abortion
Gay Marriage
Pornography everywhere
Whorehouses – where leftturdy’s mother, aunt, and sisters live
Free love expressions in public
If you can’t see this is a war and they want to kill anyone who doesn’t say A Salim Salekum (close enough) and have your wife in a burqa well you are a goner anyway. Even the Arab League disagrees with you you moron!
Hey here’s another example of how inbreeding is ruining the GOP. No wonder these people think like they do. . . they’re just fucking stupid and they can’t help it!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ens18.html
Bush guilty of groping a national leader! What a pervert. Shows how he feels about women.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....l-groping/
This is the fool we have representing us on the world stage.
Puddybud, I guess you’re admitting that Dan Rather is one of your multiple personalities. Thank you for clearing that up.
GreenThumb: I see you have a comprehension problem. If Puddy is a rigty, and Dan is a lefty, are not those diametrically opposed positions? Are you really this dumb or you play DUMB on blog sites?
Mike Web is a GOD you fukt*rd.!!! and don’t you forget it The people at KIRO are a bunch of dip sh*ts !!! they get rid of all the great liberal host then wonder why all the liberals don’t listen to there station any more and there ratings are in the tank. Goldie is a breath of fresh air but I am still made at KIRO for getting rid of Erin Hart and Mike. And yet they keep a total as*hole like Dori Monson on there . Give me a break. I only have one thing to say about KIRO. ^%*^%$*^$^%^%^$^#$@%$#@#@!^$#^%^$%(&^(*%$%$
^#@#$!%@%#^$%$&^%$$#&%&^%$*^%^&^%$^#%$#@%$#@$#@$#@32%
&(^(^%&#$^#%$%#%$#@#$@!$@#@^$#$#@!@$#!%#$%$&#$!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JSA at 115, and MTR at 128:
Your comments about the shipping revolution created by the use of containers is true enough. But don’t forget about another shipping revolution: the Boeing 747, first flown about 1968, and palatized air cargo systems which developed shortly thereafter. It allows us to ship produce around the world in half a day, making it possible to get fresh cut flowers, fruit, and vegitables in the dead of winter, as well as shipping lighter high-value manufactured goods (electronic circuit boards, etc.) at a reasonable price. Of course, this comes at a price: it severely reduced the market share of the frozen and canned vegitables.
JSA at 138: I think its iteresting to see that there is a fairly predictable pattern in low-wage industry in developing countries. When I was young, “made in Japan” was a synonym for a cheap trinket. But by the 1980’s Japanese manufacturing had surpassed that in the U.S. in terms of efficiency, productivity, and quality (although efficiency in administration/management is a mixed bag). But by the 1990’s Japan had a mature economy, and its wage-earners were among the more highly paid in the world, so items requiring “cheap labor” went elsewhere.
So by the 1980’s and early 1990’s both Tiawan and Korea had stepped into the role of providing cheap labor in an industrial economy. But as their wages rose (along with their standard of living), the cheap labor jobs also went elsewhere – to S.E. Asia (Indonesia, etc.). But with increased political stability in China, privitization of industry there, and their opening the doors to trade, China has become the cheap labor center for this decade, at least.
Note the distinction, however: cheap labor by itself is meaningless. Central Africa has lots of cheap labor, but it isn’t able to do anything with it. Western China also has cheap labor, but it is only when it migrates to the coastal provencies (particularly the southern coastal provinces) that the labor is able to meet with the industrial means of production, and create the cheap products we purchase at Wal-Mart today.
Dr. E Has some good points concerning the people of the Middle East. Before Islam, the people of the region were quite scientific and forward thniking. They were remarkable navigators and traders. Eurpoeans were barely out of the caves while Middle Easterners were doing remarkable things.
Where they lost their way was in adopting Islam, a religion permanently stuck in the Seventh Century. Islam has kept the people of the Middle East down for over thirteen centuries. It’s time for that religion to experience its own “Protestant Reformation” and join the rest of us in the Twenty-first Century.
Good Morning
Dr. E Has some good points concerning the people of the Middle East. Before Islam, the people of the region were quite scientific and forward thniking. They were remarkable navigators and traders. Eurpoeans were barely out of the caves while Middle Easterners were doing remarkable things.
Where they lost their way was in adopting Islam, a religion permanently stuck in the Seventh Century. Islam has kept the people of the Middle East down for over thirteen centuries. It’s time for that religion to experience its own “Protestant Reformation” and join the rest of us in the Twenty-first Century.
You have that completely backwards but I no facts never get in a rightwingnuts way
Mike @ 148: Yup, fooled again! Puddy, you are so clever!
rhp6033
Good comments, thanks.
Of course, it’s not just cheap labor. You need infrastructure, you need political stability. You need a government which is not completely kleptomaniacal. An educated labor force which can move up the value chain helps.
Japan has gone through the same industrial hollowing out, but it took a lot longer for industry to decamp from Japan than it did from Korea or Taiwan. How much of this is due to basic insularity (and a firm belief by Japanese business that they had the best labor force in the world), how much is due to modern manufacturing and quality control techniques making it safer to venture overseas, and how much is due to economic forces is a question for someone with a lot more spare brain cells than I have.
Unfortunately, I am out of time today. Perhaps we can talk more another day.
skagit,
Haven’t read the Lexus and the Olive Tree. I think it’s helpful to read things by people who want to make you spit your coffee out, but I can only do so much of that.
Right now my nightstand has Marilynne Robinson’s “Housekeeping” on it and Milorad Pavic’s “Landscape Painted With Tea”, which is a beautifully hallucinatory book. Reading too much about politics and economics makes one believe the world is as bad as all that.
Where’s Goldy? It has been over 24 hours since he announced that he was in transit. Did he go all the way to Australia? Perhaps to learn appropriate anti-Australian and anti-Jewish insults from locals down under who don’t like the Westfield Group? He certainly has been in transit long enough to get there.
You have that completely backwards but I no facts never get in a rightwingnuts way
Commentby The Socialist— 7/18/06@ 7:49 am
…
OK, Socialist, what’s your take on Islam and the condition of the Middle Eastern followers of that religion?
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001151.php
Looks like the bitch who helped Baby Bush steal Florida is getting her just reward.
dj @88:
Obviously your use of nothing but profanity mirrors your unintelligence and inability to come up with something better. There’s a shocker!
Mark1 – Good to see you back.. Why don’t you relive old times by calling Christine Gregoire some names.
Example1
Example2
What an upstanding piece of crap you are!
And here’s an example of the crystal-ball gazing you learned at (un)SP:
Example3
Yep, we showed up at the polls – and shot your sorry ass down! What a loser! But keep posting – it makes the case against the Republican party stronger. Thank you for that.
Good Morning
Commentby The Socialist
[…………………………..Good morning, Roger!!!]
Richard Lamar Pope, Jr.
1839 151st Ave. S.E.
Bellevue, Washington
(King Co.)
Born 1962; Admitted 1991; State University of New York at Albany, B.A.; University of Washington, J.D.
ISLN: 915713507
Commentby Daddy Love— 7/17/06@ 4:36 pm
“Ah, the conservatives’ favorite dodge: pulling out what is nearly the sole progessive tax left in our nation and using it to “prove” that the tax burden is oh-so-unfairly aflficting people making $1 million a year or more, poor things. So YES, low-income families pay little or no income tax. However, they are paying the payroll tax on EVERY dollar they earn from the first dollar they earn, while Mr. $1 million a year has his tender behind protected from the bad ol’ payroll tax for every dollar above $90,000 (that would be the last $910,000 of his amnnual income). Addtionally, sales and other regressive taxes account for a large portion of the low-income tax burden and a considerably smaller portion of the high-income tax burden.”
Yes, payroll taxes are very regressive. They were also created by a Democratic President and Congress. What you propose to change here? Remove the ceiling on the Social Security tax? There is no ceiling on the Medicare tax. So 1.45% of payroll income goes to Medicare, or 2.9% of you are self employed.
Roger I’ve noticed you always get quiet when you are confronted with facts that contradict your assertions. Why is that?
Yes, payroll taxes are very regressive…
Commentby ConservativeFirst— 7/18/06@ 12:14 pm
…
Yep, I’d say it is a regressive tax, and that doesn’t particulary bother me. What I’d like to see is workers to have control over where the funds are invested.
Nobody would force workers to invest outside the SS system, of course, but they ought to be at least given the chance to invest for themselves.
Lib @ 164
Gee, isn’t that nice that regressive taxes “don’t bother you.” Yes, I guess a tax that is most burdensome on our poorest brothers and sisters is not really worth bothering your prety litttle head about, is it?
Anyway, you should straighten your head out about Social Security. I’ll put it into simple words, though unforteunately I couldn’t get them all down to one syllable: Social Security is not an investment program. It is a social insurance program, one which pays retirement benefits, disability benefits, and survivor benefits. So if you can free your mind of the idiot notions that a comparison to investment programs forces upon you, you can begin to think again.
Not that it compares badly to investment programs in terms of either overhead or historical returns, but it just ain’tNobody would force workers to invest outside the SS system, of course, but they ought to be at least given the chance to invest for themselves.”
If a workers wants to “invest for themselves,” they are free to. But SS funds are not investment funds.
Darn that machine. Repeat, with correction:
Not that it compares badly to investment programs in terms of either overhead or historical returns, but it just ain’t one.
“Nobody would force workers to invest outside the SS system, of course, but they ought to be at least given the chance to invest for themselves.”
If a workers wants to “invest for themselves,” they are free to. But SS funds are not investment funds.
BAGHDAD, July 17 — Masked attackers with heavy machine guns mounted on pickup trucks slaughtered at least 40 people in a crowded market area south of Baghdad on Monday, hurling grenades to blow up merchants at their counters and shooting down mothers as they fled with their children, witnesses and authorities said.
Gee, it’s a good thing that Republicans can be “trusted with security issues.”
Daddy Love,
So you’re not Pro-Choice on workers having control. Gee, THERE’s a surprise!! You must be either very close to drawing social secruity or already receiving it.
WGAT IS WRONG WITH CHOICE???????????????????????????????
I got a letter and a pamphlet from Gov Gregoire urging me to check out long term health care plans so that I can plan for my future. I think I’ll send her a response back and tell her that I expect the State of Washington to take care of my long term health care needs, why should I plan for it or spend my money on it. This nanny state pays for everything and everybody else, they can pay for me to live a old person’s home too!
SGMMAC@169: While you are at it ask for a pot and a whole chicken everyday.
goldy, tell me about “rail to the airport”
You know, i was just there, saw signs about rail to airport,..
Man, that’s going to be a long hike from that train stop by the freeway all the way to concource E.
How are all the workers going to get to work each day if they have to walk in the rain?
Can’t you fire up a class action lawsuit for truth in advertising? Heck if attny’s can sue for other stupid stuff, can I sue cuz Sims and gang lie about the train?
Hey Moonbats: Your UN blew it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....non_israel
Did you see the AP report demonstrates the uselessness of the UNIFIL forces in southern Lebanon? Once again, a UN peacekeeping force did nothing to force a disarmament of the friends of donkocraps, the islamofascist terrorists, but instead provided a screening force that allowed them to re-arm without fear of reprisal. Can you say RWANDA? But the donks leader Howard Screech Dean says: “They’re freedom fighters”! Even the Arab LEague thinks differently. Why are you librul moonbats always on the wrong side?
Now Israel has to face off against a tougher and better-armed enemy, one that all of the “peacekeeping” in the world didn’t dissuade from committing an act of war against Israel last week.
Yeah Hilary, it takes your village to re-arm islamofascists.
Explain this Leftturdball.
Hey libruls: Look at what a librul thinks on Israel:
http://the-reaction.blogspot.c.....pport.html
Sorry Mike,
I don’t like that much chicken and I have too many pots already………
It sad republicans seam to be your basic school yard bull
@160:
Yeah, only when the elections are fraudulent-like “Acting Governors”. Don’t slap yourself on the back too hard there friend. Or better yet, do so and get illegitimate disability benefits and gov’t cheese like most of your pals. Wish ya luck in that.
Commentby For the Clueless— 7/17/06@ 4:34 pm
“Conservative First – What does this graph tell you?”
It doesn’t tell me that those making a subsitence living are bearing an inordinate amount of the tax burden at the federal level.
Since you asked, here’s what your graph tells me:
1) The government should cut corporate tax loopholes.
2) Social Security should be reformed.
What does it tell you?
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