Looking for something to talk about? George Howland has a very informative, even-handed piece on the proposed tunnel replacement for the Alaska Way Viaduct. It’s worth a read.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
Wanted: Home and away Duke Lacrosse game jerseys. Hey Democrat libs, can you help me???
It’s not even remotely even-handed.
“Hey MoFo, Black Democrat women never lie about geetin raped by da white man!!!” [Tawana Brawley]
Steinbrueck’s hand-wringing over the tunnel filling to capacity can be solved easily: charge a toll.
Helps pay for it, too. I like the guy (Steinbrueck) but sheesh!
Nice article, Goldy.
Given the cross-section shown in the article, I wonder whether the existing AWV will really need to be shut down during excavating and construction of the new road. If the AWV could remain open during construction, it is a big plus.
WASHINGTON – Nearly 50 percent of new AIDS patients are black, compared with 30 percent who are white and 20 percent who are Hispanic, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. [Is Bush giving da black man AIDs?? This must be Bush’s fault!!] hehe, JCH
Moonbat economic theory: Got some great contributions this week.
Government exists to make private wealth possible.
Commentby Belltowner— 3/12/06@ 4:15 pm
I like Castro’s system better. He confiscates the employer’s property, shoots the employer, and the workers get quality health care for free. We need something like that in America.
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 3/19/06@ 3:42 pm
Don’t talk to me about “core beliefs…”
Commentby headless lucy— 3/25/06@ 7:07 pm
…the oil industry is a zero sum game ( like checkers )
Commentby headless lucy— 4/9/06@ 2:56 pm
“…higher PRODUCTIVITY means fewer jobs…”
Commentby Donnageddon— 4/9/06@ 4:06 pm
“Most wealthy people inherited their wealth and haven’t worked a day in their lives…”
Commentby headless lucy— 4/13/06@ 5:14 pm
..Corporate profits are driven by the cheap labor binge. Corporate executives, board members and their lackeys have rewarded themselves hugely.
Commentby For the Clueless— 4/15/06@ 12:12 pm
…The only way to battle the oil-paper-land casino is to opt out of it through micro-capitalism, localized production and consumption…
Commentby For the Clueless— 4/15/06@ 4:21 pm
The rich people who get all these tax breaks lend us that money back in the form of government bonds that they buy and that we have to repay them at interest.
This is not investing in the economy. It’s a double jeopardy rip-off!
Commentby harry poon— 4/18/06@ 8:21 pm
…I said the revenue was the result of deficit SPENDING DO YOU SEE THE WORD “SPENDING” SPENDING SPENDING SPENDING…
Commentby dlaw— 4/18/06@ 10:17 pm
WTC People Falling Vigil
Day 1684
http://www.donaldsensing.com/P.....alling.jpg
One
Two
Three
Four
Five
Six
Seven
Eight
Nine
Ten
Eleven
…
That’s how long they were in free fall until they hit.
Wingnut Sh*thead Theory:
Wingnut challenges someone to a bet. When the wingnut loses, promptly WELSHES ON THE BET.
Example: Mark the Redneck
Clueless @ 9
I would bet that you wouldn’t even think of using the term “niggardly,” even though it has NOTHING to do with race, but you have no trouble insulting the Welsh. Hmmmmmm….
Nevermind… I forgot that you’re a Double-Standard Democrat.
As for the AWV, tunnel or whatever…
I’m all for the idea of putting some of the cost onto the developers who will benefit from increased property values when the AWV comes down. Don’t recall who on HA mentioned it first, but I like it — regardless of who came up with it.
But I’m betting it’ll never happen because that would increase the cost-of-living for silver-spoon liberals who choose to protest downtown on Saturday afternoon, but then go off in the evening to their urban condos, a nice bottle of wine and some indy flick DVD or a “thought-provoking” show at some smug hideaway theater company.
Ever notice how the GOP uses the tragedy of 9.11 as a campaign tool and how sickening and dishonest that is? There’s a special place in Hell for these right wing cowards.
Go tunnel.
Peter is a wussy. He and Licata have nice politics, but actually obstruct getting anything accomplished —more study, wait anothr six months, back to the staff — the malaise is chilling.
Called Council Fog.
Informative and even-handed? It’s a PR campaign for the tunnel. The emphasis on describing the relative complexities of the projects veils what the article addresses secondarily, and what people who compare it the the Big Dig have in mind — cost estimates are lies. Project supporters sell a lot of blue sky and sizzle to distract the voters from the actual drawbacks of their hobby horses.
Aside from the costs of tunnel and rebuild options, which we can all expect to be a third higher than estimated, there is the matter of the traffic capacity of the Viaduct being interrupted for years. The estimates range from 18 to 42 months of us taking alternate routes through the city to go from SODO to Aurora.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ct14m.html
Retired engineers Neil Twelker and Victor Gray propose fixing the Viaduct for $800 million, using jet grouting and liquefied concrete to form underground concrete columns and using isolation bearing to cope with earth movements. WSDOT says it won’t work here but don’t say why.
There’s even some disagreement about the actual risk the existing Viaduct represents. The Report of the Structural Sufficiency Review Committee says
“Accordingly, for the purpose of developing recommendations for the repair of the Viaduct, we suggest using a threshold acceleration of approximately 0.25g [instead of the 0.19g of the Nisqually earthquake] to represent the level of earthquake ground shaking that might be required to trigger a failure of the Alaskan Way Seawall and associated massive lateral spreading that would jeopardize the integrity of the Viaduct.” [Page 10]
The recurrence of another Nisqually 6.8 earthquake is 150 years and the Review Report says “the 0.25g acceleration would have a recurrence interval of about 350 years.”
What’s the rush? Why do we need a Bugatti class replacement?
Surreal Mark: together with Richard Pope it has been truly sad to witness your decline.
From the dictionary:
Welsh: # Welshman: a native or resident of Wales
# a Celtic language of Wales
# cheat by avoiding payment of a gambling debt
Which is what Mark the Redneck has done if you’ve been paying attention. Not you though. You haven’t declined that far – yet.
I’ve always liked the tunnel idea.
Dig it!
Clueless @ 15
I see… So, I’m guessing you also use the term “Jew” in the pejorative and/or as a verb?
16.
It’s becoming clear to me that people who like the idea of a tunnel are mostly those who don’t travel from the West Seattle Bridge to Ballard or the North Side.
When problems caused by the disruption of a necessary traffic, transit and shipping route are ignored, the benefits to the gentry are overly emphasised.
Guess whatever you’d like Mark – I’d venture to conclude it would have more to do with surreality than anything else.
To be a little more precise: more to do with the projection of your inchoate resentments onto some people here.
MTR at 8 is doing his Hitler routine again. He uses the 9/11 attacks as justification the the extermination of the entire Muslim population on the planet.
“There are 6 billion people in the world. 2 billion of them are muslim. That means that all the rest of need to pair up and kill one of them. When we all do that, the problem will be solved. And it really is like a cancer… you hafta get every trace of it… every cell, or it will come out of remission with a vengeance. This also solves the global population problem you guys are so worried about, so we kill two birds with one stone.”
Commentby Mark The Redneck— 12/17/05@ 8:51 pm
Like Hitler, MTR shows no moral sensitivity whatsoever to the sheer inhumanity of his “modest proposal.” In fact, he is proud of it. Truly amazing.
I use the AWV ALL the time.
The disruption’s gonna/gotta happen SOMETIME. Let’s just do the right thing, and get the best LONG TERM solution.
If the best long-term solution is to be had, the use of an entirely different route should not be off the table.
The “signature bridge” enhancement to the original Elliot Bay Bridge concept would disrupt traffic less and provide a solution that could allow all vehicles to travel it.
The current configuration of the AWV is actually the optimal for us poor commuters and west seattle residents while the tunnel is the best for the downtown developers. The people who live in the condos close to the viaduct will get some benefit down the road as long as they put up with 10 years of construction and are willing to pay the huge rate increases the developers are expecting to be able to charge. The viaduct depresses rent and condo prices enough now so that some of the middle class can afford to live and work downtown.
The AWV rebuild option is being unfairly downplayed by Mayor Nichols for the benefit of the same developers who killed the monorail.
Note the misinformation campaign kicked off a few weeks back implying the “view” would be degraded on purpose to make sure people who enjoy the current view from the AWV start to think that they might as well settle for the tunnel.
Even Nichols cannot block the view of Mt Rainier or the Olympics from a rebuilt AWV. The view of the ferry dock, the tourist trap resturants and the orange cranes is not really a great loss.
Those who want to do away with it entirely are living in their usual fantasy world.
When we are all turned out onto those surface streets by the construction, you will really learn the meaning of gridlock.
I know a couple of hundred routes across the city but the rest of you will be parked on I-5 and 1st Ave for several hours per day.
The reason that I oppose the tunnel option at any cost is that it will force the majority of the frieght traffic, especially from the port, on to I-5 because they will not be allowed to use the tunnel. Building the tunnel will destroy the commute on the I-5 corridor. Traffic will be much worse, not better, than what it is now.
In terms of a traffic route that meets the needs of all stake-holders in the city, the tunnel is the worst solution.
Both the options that are slated to be on the ballot are bad for people who travel AWV now.
State and city politicians are pushing self-serving plans.
The bridge should be re-evaluated. If it won’t fly, fix the existing structure.
Oh oh. Looks like Condi leaked some classified intel. Wonder if the righties will go after her the way they are the reporters? Or is it okay if it’s a republican doing the leaking? When will we be devoid of all these traitors. The right wing of the taliban-led GOP is running America into the ground. It might be time for a revolution – come November that is – a Democratic Congress that investigates, tries and jails these cowardly traitors.
Hold up Deke, Condi, Karl, DeLay and the rest of the cabal will join you in those orange jumpsuits soon enough!
One more thing.
Comparisons to structures in the SF Bay Area should focus on the Cypress Structure that collapsed, not the SF Embarcadero Freeway.
The Embarcadero was a road to nowhere. It was intended to link the Golden Gate and Bay Bridges. SF killed it when the citizens realized what it would do to the North Beach and Marina neighborhoods, before 1960. It could have been torn down anytime after that.
The Cypress was the vital link to the Bay Bridge. It was replaced with a new route.
Leftturn – do you not understand that an authorized disclosure of previously classified material is not a crime? And that the president has the authority to declassify material?
Do you understand that a CIA official does not have the legal right to share classified information with the press? That they sign nondisclosure agreements? That their jobs require that they submit to polygraph tests?
McCarthy could have been a whistleblower, and gone through channels. She chose to talk to a reporter, instead. Fortuntately, I suspect that the story was a setup, meant to bring the leaker to light. The fact that the EU can find no substantiation for the story supports this.
Wonder what will happen to the reporter who won a pulitzer but didn’t research her story very well? Nothing, I suspect.
“…Likewise, Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., has scheduled a news conference at a Tukwila gas station Sunday to push for a ban on price gouging. She has introduced legislation to outlaw gouging, impose tougher fines and criminal penalties on violators, and give federal and state authorities new powers to protect consumers.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....oil22.html
Now how the fuck would she know if “gouging” is occurring. Given her complete lack of understanding of the mechanics of commodity markets, how is she going to identify gouging? Or will she just set some arbitrary limit to appeal to equally stoopid moonbat constitutents?
Oh oh. Looks like Condi leaked some classified intel.
Commentby LeftTurn— 4/22/06@ 3:06 pm […………………………….Left Turn, Attacking a black woman!! You are a racist!!!] hehe..I love given the Democrat libs the same shit they love to dish out!
14—The state want sto build for the 2,500 year quake – see recent statement from DOT
Despite all, the prioect will be shaped by cash in the bag – Nickels is far short.
LIBERALS MUST ARM!!!
My, how things are changing! I haven’t been posting today because I was busy attending my legislative district caucus. During the discussion of platform planks, not only did my fellow Democrats come out against gun control, but some got up and said what I’ve been saying all along — liberals need to get guns to counter the threat of a right-wing overthrow of our democracy! They weren’t joking; some liberals are finally beginning to take seriously people like Ann Coulter, who goes around stirring up the righty masses by advocating the killing of liberals.
Charlie Sheen Divorce Bombshell
Wife: Drugs, hookers, threats, gambling, porn on actor’s plate
APRIL 21–In a searing court attack on Charlie Sheen, actress Denise Richards alleges that her estranged husband is unstable, violent, addicted to gambling and prostitutes, and visits pornographic web sites featuring young men and girls who appear underage. In a remarkable sworn declaration (a copy of which you’ll find below) filed today in Los Angeles Superior Court, Richards also charges that Sheen, 40, assaulted her and threatened her life during a December 30 incident at the actress’s Los Angeles home. Richards claims that an enraged Sheen–who was over for a visit with the couple’s two children–told her she was “fucking with the wrong guy” and called her a series of vulgar names in front of the children. The actor, Richards said, then shoved her to the ground and screamed, “I hope you f–king die, bitch.” As Richards, 35, tells it, Sheen was angry because she had told her divorce attorney about discovering details of Sheen’s porn-surfing practices. Richards’s declaration, filed in support of her request for a restraining order against Sheen, contends that Sheen “belonged” to “disturbing” sites “which promoted very young girls, who looked underage to me with pigtails, braces, and no pubic hair performing oral sex with each other.” Other sites visited by Sheen, Richards alleges, involved “gay pornography also involving very young men who also did not look like adults.” Richards claims that she also discovered that Sheen “belonged to several sex search type sites” on which he “looked for women to have sex with.” His online profile, Richards adds, included a photo of “his erect penis.” The Richards evisceration also portrays Sheen as a lousy father who urged her to abort their first child. And, when she was about to give birth to their second child via a C-section, Sheen’s attention was “diverted to his pager for the results of his betting.” (17 pages)
It sounds like Charlie is setting himself to be the 08 presidential nominee by the dems.
31
What if the 2,500 year quake is only 25 years away?
Now how the fuck would she know if “gouging” is occurring.
Same way one would know if WELSHING had occurred.
1
“Wanted: Home and away Duke Lacrosse game jerseys. Hey Democrat libs, can you help me??? Commentby Hillary [JCH]Clinton— 4/22/06@ 9:54 am”
Gee, JCH, I thought you danced at the party??? Why did you leave without one?
Addendum to 36
In drag, of course.
DOOFUS @ 33
Please, please run for office in 06 or 08! Please!
You should get at least as many votes as Will Baker got. By the way, did you vote for him?
7
Hey Redneck — don’t forget this one!
“Ummm…. if the President says it… it’s not a “leak”. A “leak” is disclosing information without authorization. Since the President is the boss, it is by definition not a leak since he can authorize whatever the fuck he wants. That’s how things work when you’re boss.” Commentby Mark The Redneck— 4/10/06@ 3:06 pm
11
“Don’t recall who on HA mentioned it first, but I like it – regardless of who came up with it.” Commentby (The Real) Mark— 4/22/06@ 12:38 pm
Well! Let’s hope the fact it’s Roger Rabbit’s idea won’t change your opinion of it!
12
“Ever notice how the GOP uses the tragedy of 9.11 as a campaign tool and how sickening and dishonest that is? There’s a special place in Hell for these right wing cowards.” Commentby LeftTurn— 4/22/06@ 12:46 pm
Let’s not forget that President AWOL was on vacation 42% of the time while the bad guys were planning this attack.
29.
Let me explain something to you, rightie. Most of the people in this country equate the war in Iraq with gas prices.
You assholes are responsible for the war in Iraq. You’re also the assholes in love with Exxon.
Live with is.
I agree with RR. Liberals must arm. NOW!
Interesting that Baby Bush can allegedly “Declassify” information months AFTER it was leaked if it means protecting a crony. Fucking AWOL, drunken, draft dodging traitor!
Why aren’t we hearing more about Sheriff Davie’s violent temper toward women, his divorce and other past legal problems?
Left Turn, May I recommend a Mossberg 12 gauge. When I hunt liberals, I don’t even need to aim.
On Earth Day, no Democrat should get into an automobile, train, plane, or boat. Hell, libs, why not everyday??
A few facts, and the lefties devolve into total nonsense. Let’s arm! (Go for it!) High gas prices = Iraq war! (No, but why ruin a perfectly good ad hominem attack?)
I know, facts are really difficult things to deal with.
From your own Liberal rag, the Seattle PI, even they can find a bone from time to time!
Dispatch from Iraq: A tiny bit of comfort
ARIC CATRON
A soldier sees and feels a wider variety of sights and emotions in a year than most people will experience in a lifetime. …
In my short time in the military I have experienced more suffering than I could have imagined before joining up. I have held the hand of a dying Marine who had only one last wish: that someone would be with him and hold his hand as he passed on. So I sat there with a strange man, holding his hand, not saying a word, until he died. …
I have watched grown men cry, and cried with them, as we stood in front of the traditional memorial of a rifle thrust bayonet-first into the ground with the fallen soldier’s helmet and dog tags draped on the weapon. His empty boots stand at attention in the fore of this tableau.
My heart broke when I gazed upon a little girl, no older than my own 5-year-old, crying and begging in broken English for food and water. I have awoken from sleep in shock as it finally dawned on me how close I came to death on a recent patrol. I have lived in fear that I would never see my family again, or that my daughter would grow up without her daddy. …
On one of those days in Iraq where I wasn’t sure if I’d see my daughter again, I was working at a checkpoint near a small camp in the desert. … The locals would gather around our checkpoints to try to sell us things, beg for food or water, or just hang around the soldiers.
On this particular day one of the locals had his little girl with him. She was shyly watching me from behind his legs. When I smiled and waved at her, she brazenly ran up to me with a big smile and held out her arms, expecting to be picked up. At first I was shocked at her sudden bravery, and it took me a second to reach down and pick her up. When I did, she immediately kissed me on my cheek and then nestled in as if she meant to stay a while.
I looked toward her father and he immediately began talking rapidly in Arabic and gesturing at me. Our translator quickly explained that he, the father, had been locked in a prison for most of the child’s life. He had been sentenced to death for being a Shiite dissident traitor. The man went on to say that soldiers wearing the same patch on the shoulder as I was (the 101st Airborne Division) had freed him shortly after we began the liberation of Iraq. His daughter from then on believed that the famous Screaming Eagle patch of the 101st meant that we were angels sent to protect her family.
I sat in a little folding chair with that girl in my arms for well over 30 minutes. She trusted me so completely that she had fallen asleep with her head on my shoulder. All of my fears and worries faded as I held that little miracle. It had been so long since I had held my own daughter that this episode was even more healing for me than it was for her.
I have often wondered if, on that day when I missed my family so much, it wasn’t a coincidence that she found me, of all soldiers. Maybe it was that innocent girl, and not me, that was the angel sent by God.
God save you people!
12 Gauge? Hell if we’re hunting the Taliban led right wing nut jobs we need an M50 to make sure we get all of em.
32
LIBERALS MUST ARM!!!
“.some liberals are finally beginning to take seriously people like Ann Coulter, who goes around stirring up the righty masses by advocating the killing of liberals.”
Your concience is asking for references that Ann Coulter is advocating the killing of liberals….
ClosetBunny @ 40:
“Well! Let’s hope the fact it’s Roger Rabbit’s idea won’t change your opinion of [RR’s AWV funding proposal]!”
No, BunnyBoy, a good idea is a good idea and I’m happy to give credit where it is due. I believe I said it was a good idea at the time, too.
This is where you (and Goldy and Donna) and I differ — intellectual honesty. I’m willing to put We The People above any political party (though, admittedly, I don’t think I could bring myself to vote for a Socia1ist, C0mmunist or the like).
44
Interesting that Baby Bush can allegedly “Declassify” information months AFTER it was leaked if it means protecting a crony. Fucking AWOL, drunken, draft dodging traitor! Commentby LeftTurn— 4/22/06@ 6:57 pm
B-b-b-b-but-but-but-but …
Ummm…. if the President says it… it’s not a “leak”. A “leak” is disclosing information without authorization. Since the President is the boss, it is by definition not a leak since he can authorize whatever the fuck he wants. That’s how things work when you’re boss. Commentby Mark The Redneck— 4/10/06@ 3:06 pm
46
Left Turn, May I recommend a Mossberg 12 gauge. When I hunt liberals, I don’t even need to aim. Commentby Hillary [JCH]Clinton— 4/22/06@ 7:22 pm
JCH, I figure you ain’t got nuthin a 60-mm mortar can’t take care of.
48
“A few facts, and the lefties devolve into total nonsense. … High gas prices = Iraq war! Commentby Janet S— 4/22/06@ 7:26 pm
Once again, Janet proves a perfect vacuum does exist after all — between her ears!
Hey Clueless Cunt, guess what, big wars CONSUME lots of petroleum, and in addition, since the invasion Iraq (which has the world’s second largest oil reserves) oil production has gone to essentially ZERO.
Military fuel consumption + loss of production = gas crunch
Wait and see, some trollfuck is gonna give me shit for calling Janet a “cunt.” Hey, aren’t you righties the people who were bitching about “political correctness” not so long ago? And now you’re complaining about a politically incorrect bunny? Which is it? For PC? Against PC? Make up your fucking minds!
Trust me, friends, I have more respect for females than a certain unnamed wingfuck mysoginistic who doesn’t pay his gambling debts. I have more respect for females than the GOP congressmen who voted to cut funding for child support collection so rich white guys can get another tax cut! Just because I fuck cute fluffy female bunnies 10 at a time doesn’t mean I don’t respect ’em! Of course I respect ’em! Especially when they produce bushels of cute fluffy little baby bunnies to repopulate Green Lake Park!!!
49
Awww … what a touching story! Where’s the kid’s mother? Blown to bits by a U.S. bomb?
Well, maybe that last post was uncalled for. As we all know, U.S. planes bomb with surgical precision. Why, their laser guidance systems can pick out a terrorist in a crowded market from 50 miles away! The shrapnel pattern can be arranged so it misses all the innocents and hits only bad guys. Much more selective in hitting targets than “dumb” buckshot fired by a “dumb” hunter like Dick Cheney! Yes, I probably was hasty to suggest that our shooting and bombing in Iraq conceivably might be killing more innocent Iraqis than it’s saving from the clutches of Saddam, who, after all, is in an American military jail and not in much of a position right now to bother this kid’s dad or anyone else.
The nice thing about the 60-mm mortar is you don’t have to aim it. You just tilt it in the general direction of the Republican asshole with the Mossberg 12-gauge, drop in the round, and it pretty much kills everything in that city block.
52
If that’s so, why have you forgotten that government exists to serve We The People, and why are you so unwilling to acknowledge the good things that government does for us? Like making private property and a capitalist economy possible, for example.
55.
Of course public opinion is right about the relationship of the war to gas prices, but what is amazing about righties like Janet is that they cannot accept the fact that it is public opinion.
Right or wrong, perceptions matter.
BunnyBoy @ 61
Show me where I said all government was bad?
As for giving the government credit for the “good things”… If I pay for something and receive an appropriate level of service, I have no obligation to give it gushing praise. If I get more than I paid for (i.e. something above-and-beyond), I can understand some kind of obligation. If I get less than I paid for, I have every right to squawk.
Do you tell the clerk at the grocery store, “Wow! Thanks for selling me a gallon of milk for three dollars?”
63
As for giving the government credit for the “good things”… If I pay for something and receive an appropriate level of service, I have no obligation to give it gushing praise. Commentby (The Real) Mark— 4/22/06@ 10:50 pm
That’s your whole damn problem — you equate government with private business, expect it to operate like private business, and have no understanding of the concepts underlying the very notion of government, to wit: Community, common good, and all that. Government is not a business! Some people pay more than they get back, while other people get back more than they pay for!*
* Namely, red staters living off blue states who make an avocation of bitching about “government oppression” and “socialism” because they’re only getting back $1.45 on the dollar! See http://www.thecarpetbaggerrepo...../6936.html for particulars.
Hey JCH — if you have a distaste for getting ripped apart by thousands of jagged little pieces of stainless steel wire, instead of a 60-mm mortar we could use an IED made from military-grade C-4! Much neater … flash, bang, cloud of dust, and you’re not there anymore — I promise it won’t hurt for very long.
Getting the C-4 is no problem. Given how the Bushcons “support the troops” it shouldn’t be hard to find a Fort Lewis soldier who would appreciate a little civilian financial aid! After all, if Iran can get weapons-grade uranium, how hard can it be for liberals to get military weapons and explosives? We probably could buy that stuff on Pine Street any day of the week between midnight and 5 a.m.
JCH — of course, you have another option! You can throw down that Mossberg and raise your fucking hands above your head! If you surrender, you will be well treated. We will treat you no worse than you Repubi-Nazis treat your prisoners! Rubber-hose beatings are strictly limited to three sessions per day, and we run only DC current through the electrodes superglued to your testicles. You will be smeared with feces from head to foot, but the bad smell doesn’t really hurt anything — you will be barfing and unable to hold food for only a week afterward. If you refuse to surrender, we’re back to Plan A. So give it some thought, and be ready to make a quick decision when you show up with that Mossberg, because we’re gonna give you only to the Count of Three to decide which way you wanna go with that shotgun.
JCH — if you opt for a peaceful resolution, who knows, you could get lucky and end up with a liberal judge! You might be back on the streets inside of 15 years.*
* When we get back in power, we’re going to prosecute all of you Republican bastards who are still alive for aiding and abetting massive fraud, theft of public resources, civil rights violations, atrocities, and war crimes!
41: Now that’s funny. I know you were talking about Clinton, who under his watch these guys got their driver’s licenses and their flight schooling!
BunnyBoy @ 64
But what does that have to do with my giving credit for the “good things?” What if what you think are “good things” aren’t so in my opinion?
Are you saying that by its very nature, government must be inefficient and wasteful?
If & when some government person or agency gives me more than I should rightly expect, I will be glad to single them out for praise. Otherwise, I don’t owe them anything.
Yes, there are people that bust their tails for their Olympia paycheck. There are also plenty of government employees who spend my tax money to build their own little fiefdoms, further their personal social agendas and/or lollygag around all day.
If you truly worked in Olympia, you cannot honestly tell me that you didn’t know of “middle managers” who pushed for programs merely to add more staff under them. You can’t tell me that every single person that got a government paycheck earned every dime. My S.O. — a “true believer” in the wonders of government and a rabid Dem — will readily admit to the above.
69
“What if what you think are “good things” aren’t so in my opinion?”
What if what YOU think are “good things” (e.g., Iraq war; corporate welfare; letting polluters off the hook so taxpayers have to pay for cleaning up their messes, etc.) aren’t so in MY opinion? I wait it out, until the next election, and hope the next election sets things aright.
That’s the social contract, Mark! We settle these differences with elections. If you lose, you pay taxes for the things our side wants. If we lose, we pay taxes for the things your side wants. If you refuse to pay the taxes imposed on you by our laws, you go to fucking prison.
And if you resist arrest, you get shot by the cops.
If a bunch of you band together and resist arrest for tax evasion, that’s called “insurrection,” and you all get shot by the National Guard.
… Like those fucking idiots at Waco who shot at the FBI instead of coming out of their flimsy non-fire-code-compliant plywood castle with their hands up when they were ordered to do so, who took a bunch of women and kids with them. Hope they’re all burning in Hell for getting their women and kids killed, who probably didn’t knowingly volunteer for the Armageddon that Koresh and his male followers had in mind for themselves.
69
“Are you saying that by its very nature, government must be inefficient and wasteful?”
Yes, I think so. In the sense that it’s unrealistic to think a democratically-run government will ever be as efficient as a top-down private enterprise.
In the first place, in a democracy, government’s highest priority is not economic efficiency or achieving stated goals at the lowest possible cost, but rather maximizing opportunities for public input and conforming the decisions that are made to the collective will of the peoople as much as possible. Or at least, that’s SUPPOSED to be the primary goal.
It costs a lot of money to hold public hearings, conduct environmental reviews, print and distribute impact statements, etc. It also takes a lot of time. Hiring government to do something usually is both the slowest and most expensive way to do it. In the public sector, you can’t just give orders like a business executive can, because you’re not spending your own money and because you’re exercising coercive governmental powers that private businesses don’t have. So whatever you do, you have to do with the consent of the governed, or at least with enough process that the courts will agree everyone had a fair opportunity to have their input considered.
When you look at the structure of government, and the details of what public agencies actually do, you typically see a ton of process. Public hearings. Decision-making by committee. Checks and balances. Appeals. And so on. It’s all very time consuming and expensive.
A democratic form of government is not designed for quick decisions or lowest cost. It’s designed for maximizing public participation in decision making. If you want a government that can make command decisions and get things done in a hurry at minimal cost, nothing beats a police state and slave labor! Imagine if Stalin or Hitler, instead of Gregoire and Nickels, were in charge of replacing the Alaska Way Viaduct. It would be built already! And probably for an awful lot less than the $3.6 billion the state and city are budgeting for it. After all, how much can it cost to guard and barely feed a couple hundred thousand concentration camp inmates? You don’t need expensive heavy equipment for this job if you have enough warm bodies, you can mix concrete with shovels in wheelbarrows! All you need is a huge pile of sand, another huge pile of gravel, a couple freight trainloads of cement, a couple hundred flatcar loads of rebar, and several hundred thousand political prisoners — plus enough armed guards and dogs to keep them from escaping or loafing. You’ll have that sucker up and traffic-ready in six weeks!
Don’t forget, Mussolini made the trains run on time. I don’t remember the details, but he probably shot some dispatchers, engineers, and conductors whose trains were late. The CEO of a private railroad doesn’t have to get the drastic, he can make most of the trains run more or less on by firing employees whose trains are late.
If you insist on enjoying the luxury of electing the folks in charge of trains, you’d better be prepared to sit through committee meetings where hours are spent debating whether trains need to run on time, whether we need trains at all, what to do about the adverse impacts of trains on neighborhoods and the environment, who’s going to pay for the trains, whether it’s appropriate to name a train after (fill in name of controversial public figure), etc., the end result of which almost certainly will be a motion to table all questions before the committee until the next meeting.
As a Republican friend who spent 10 years working for WSDOT once explained to me, “The objective of all government decision making is to arrive at no decision.” The logic that drives the process to this result is obvious: If you don’t make a decision, you can’t get in trouble for the decision you made.
In short, while it is theoretically possible you may lose your land to eminent domain, the odds of government doing anything normally are so remote that you almost certainly won’t live long enough to find out whether the government wants your land or not, and your children probably won’t, either.
Sure, occasionally you read in the papers about someone’s land being taken by government under eminent domain — just as you read in the papers about someone winning the lottery. The odds of it happening to you are roughly the same in both cases.
You’re more likely to be killed by a terrorist than to have your land taken under eminent domain — at least while Bush is in charge of homeland security.
Transcript of Bush protecting the homeland:
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz …
Hey, at least he was well rested when the shit hit the fan.
Any more questions?
ROGER RABBIT POLL
In the United States of America, between January 2001 and the present, based on analyses of statistics on leading causes of death, you were most likely to be killed by a
[ ] 1. terrorist
[ ] 2. abortion doctor
[ ] 3. smoking habit
[ ] 4. border vigilante
[ ] 5. frozen turd from an airplane
[ ] 6. Dick Cheney on a quail farm
[ ] 7. Laura Bush at a 4-way stop sign
[ ] 8. espresso stand robber
[ ] 9. bird flu
[ ] 10. a bird flu vaccine approved by the political-appointee-run FDA
Imagine the Beatles music…
—
I am me and Rummy’s he, Iraq is free and we are all together
See the world run when Dick shoots his gun, see how I lie
I’m Lying…
Sitting on my own brain, waiting for the end of days
Corporation profits, Bloody oil money
I’m above the law and I’ll decide what’s right or wrong
I am the egg head, I’m the Commander, I’m the Decider
Koo-Koo-Kachoo
Baghdad city policeman sitting pretty little targets in a row
See how they die when the shrapnel flies see mothers cry
I’m Lying…I’m Ly-ing…I’m Lying…I’m Ly-ing
Yellow cake uranium, imaginary WMD’s
Declassifying facts, exposing secret agents
Tax cuts for the wealthy leaving all the poor behind
CHORUS
Sitting in the White house garden talking to the Lord
My thoughts would be busy busy hatching If I only had a brain
CHORUS
FunnyBunny @ 75: “Don’t forget, Mussolini made the trains run on time.”
Acutally, that’s a oft-told myth. For more info, see:
http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.htm
“What if what YOU think are “good things” (e.g., Iraq war; corporate welfare; letting polluters off the hook so taxpayers have to pay for cleaning up their messes, etc.)”
When did I ever say those were “good things? Tsk, tsk…
“In the public sector… you’re not spending your own money”
That’s the Seventh Sign! The End Times are coming! A Democrat just admitted that the government isn’t spending its own money! Now if you could just convince the rest of your party of this, we could have a reasonable debate on public policy.
Mark, since I am not a dem or a rep, I think I will answer that last one. If you ever actually asked a dem what they believe instead of asking other reps what dems believe, youd probably find that most dem agree that the government is spending our money not theirs.
One of the more irritating aspects of politics in the last few years is this very willingness to misrepresent the opposite sides position to a very high degree.
Roger is spot on when he says that the issue is not really about government waste, but a disagreement about where is the best place to spend tax dollars. In recent years, the reps have really stopped trying to justify spending, instead, they have have issued a series of misrepresentations and then sneakily just spent money however they want.
Is there waste in government spending? I am guessing there is, but I do note, that you have taken that as a given. The question that I think is important here is how much waste is there and can the amount left be removed without entirely crippling the government. On the federal level the reps have been in charge for a while, how much longer till the ‘fat’ is gone? I am guessing this ‘fat’ is neither as prevalient nor as costly as some individuals have been representing.
As an example, go ahead and look around at how much concrete and steel costs. Then go find out how much you will pay construction workers if you went to hire them. I am guessing that you are gonna find that WSDOT is paying about what youd pay, and I am also guessing that the guys you hire will stand around and yak half the day just as often as WSDOT’s guys.
So here is a challange. Using something other than ‘everyone knows’ type stuff, and avoiding the ‘look at this single expenditure that we put someone in jail over’ type news article, demonstrate that exhorbitant government misspending has had a major (more than 5%) effect on government spending.
Note, if you find that the government paid 10000 when they could have paid 9500 that is only 500 in waste, not the full 10k that the reps keep claiming.
This thread has gone in so many places, I’ll add my own irrelevent diversion.
Ah, the Boston “Big Dig”…there was some guy, a tenor sax player, who used to work as a busker under the elevated roadway the tunnel replaced. It was at a point next the the Freedom Trail, and all the tourists who passed by on their way to walk through Paul Revere’s house and eat Italian food got to listen to some pretty good playing, in a setting where the structure of the girders underneath the roadway produced the most remarkable acoustics. It was like listening to someone play inside the Great Pyramid or some such. That being said, that road was butt ugly and a genuine horror to drive. It certainly won’t be missed, even if the project to replace it was indeed a fiasco of grand proportions.
I hope the guy found another place to play.