King County would take over the Vashon Island foot ferry and try out passenger ferries on up to five other routes on Puget Sound and Lake Washington, with property owners financing the service through a tax levy slightly higher than indicated earlier, County Executive Ron Sims proposed Thursday.
In a letter to the County Council, which also serves as the board of the recently created King County Ferry District, Sims called for a 10-year property tax of 5.5 cents per $1,000 of assessed valuation.
What will they do with these taxes?
Conduct two-year tests of five other ferry routes, beginning with one route in 2009 and adding another each of the next four years. The routes have not been selected, but possibilities include Lake Washington runs to central Seattle from Kenmore, Kirkland and Renton and Puget Sound trips to downtown from Shilshole and Des Moines.
Is this the first step of the “greenest package you have ever seen” transportation plan Ron Sims had in mind? What’s the carbon footprint on one of those suckers? Those diesel engines don’t run gypsy tears or lollipops, that’s for sure! (Or biodiesel for that matter).
Really, what the fuck are we doing even considering putting ferries into Lake Washington when King County’s South Park Bridge is deteriorating before our eyes?
To be clear, I think King County is right to invest in passenger only ferries to Vashon Island, because, well, it’s a fucking island. Kirkland, from what I remember, is not an island, and that Kirklanders manage to get around pretty well without boat service. Even the West Seattle Water Taxi, a sort of quasi-novelty item propagated by West Seattle-based county councilmen from the past and present, seems like something worth keeping.
I find it funny that Sims, who attacked the South Link light rail line for not being “worth the money”, is proposing a new transit system that will have an astronomical per-rider subsidy. Besides, people like to criticize light rail for being “two hundred year old technology,” but what about ferries? Isn’t that, like, four fucking thousand years old?
To recap: Vashon Island ferry, yes. Water Taxi, sure, why not. Ferry from Kirkland to UW? No way.
As promised, I’m planning to vehemently oppose a property tax levy to fund more
ferrieswater buses, until we get a fair, unencumbered vote on expanding light rail.Don’t bother trying to convince me, my mind is closed.
This is actually the kind of thing that the Sierra Club should be bringing up. Ferries put out more pollution per passenger than the average car… why would we want to expand the fleet if we’re trying to reduce the civic carbon footprint? It just seems like a boondoggle, and not a component of an efficient transportation policy.
Uhm…perhaps you hadn’t heard? These won’t be mechanically powered ferries…Nope…galley slaves chained to oars.
Secret Democratic plan to send press gangs into the ‘burbs and shanghai wingnut Republiconvicts like me into serving their betters by providing the impetus for leisure yachting excursions disguised as commuter runs up and down Lake Clinton (name change coming soon) and across Obama Sound (Peter Puget was an imperialistic foreign military scumbag).
Soon to follow…light rail plan sans locomotives. Wingnuts harnessed to cars running at full tilt while barefoot down glass-strewn paths…
Tradition dictates naming trains, so this one will be The Big Kucinich…
A transportation package that no self-respecting HA Happy Hooligan can fail to support…double negatives aside.
The Piper
@3 “Democratic plan to send press gangs into the ‘burbs and shanghai wingnut Republiconvicts like me into serving their betters by providing the impetus for leisure yachting excursions”
Damn well about time. Turnabout is fair play.
In case you forgot, Crackpiper, here are the ad hoc HA posting rules (note emphasized item):
1. This is a liberal blog.
2. Anyone can post here.
3. There is no censorship.
4. As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the living shit out of you unpatriotic fascist pigfuckers!
5. NO MERCY FOR WINGNUTS!!!
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender.
7. Report to your assigned ferry for galley slave duty.
Well, Ron Sims is at it again. This guy never quits. At figuring out novel ways to spend our money, I mean. I wonder if this has anything to do with last week’s court decision? Is he trying to wriggle this boondoggle through the County Council before the legislature slaps the 1% property tax lid back on? Will Jane Hague vote for the Kirkland Foot Ferry? Does Jane Hague play footsie with the Kirkland Kops when she gets yanked over to the curb for, um, weaving? I’ve got a feeling 6th District property owners may regret not electing Richard Pope …
Will, you have absolutely no idea whether or not these ferry routes make sense from a GHG viewpoint.
You ask a good question; before you make a judgment, you should wait for the answer.
How about just buying the good citizens of Vashon Island a couple of canoes? Except Tom Stewart — he can afford his own fucking canoe.
I mean, it’s not like they didn’t know it was an ISLAND when they moved there …
I suppose the next big thing will be a $10 billion suspension bridge to Vashon Island.
@7 I don’t know, either, but I know when someone is trying to pick my pocket. (WHACK!!!!)
@7 Scott you seem to be quite sensitive to what is clearly the same argument that the Sierra Club used against Prop 1 – more roads = more GHG emissions.
Similarily one can surmise that more diesel powered ferries = more GHG emissions.
But you’re right, it is a good question. Another good question would be about ridership, another about how much of that diesel fuel or oil will spill into Lake Washington when they are refueling…I’m sure that WA State Ferries has a stat on that.
Any researchers out there?
I think you guys are getting the Ron Sims you deserve.
Roger,
It’s a beautiful sunny day outside; shut down the computer and go for a stroll around Green Lake.
I’m off to rake leaves with a real gods-honest rake. I hate those blower contraptions.
D.O.T. has a couple (Really expensive!) passenger ferries sitting tied up in Eagle Harbor, btw. They created too large of a wake to be used or some such thing. I wonder if we could sell them and use the money to help Expand Tacoma’s link line to Tacoma General Hospital.
@14…M…
A real environmentalist would let the leaves decompose right where they fell…That you defy nature that way must mean you harbor secret wingnut ambitions.
The HA Happy Hooligan Hunting Hounds, under the leadership of dog-abuser extraordinaire, R. Rabbit, will now be sicked upon your obviously Rovian rake.
You’ve been warned!
The Piper
Gentry @13,
Um… yeah… like you or David Irons would have been better?
You know, it is possible for me to disagree with Ron on some issues, and still think he’s done an overall good job.
@12, yes, two ferries emit more GHG’s than one.
This also true for cars, buses or trains.
We can save GHG’s by traveling in straighter lines, making fewer trips, and switching to more efficient modes. It could very well be that, in some cases — given a cap on GHG’s and dollars — a ferry can handle more trips more quickly than a bus or train.
Per ton of stuff, ships are more energy efficient than even rail.
But for this specific Sims plan, I don’t pretend to know.
@16
Like you’d know…
I compost the leaves and grow my veggies with the compost.
$200 for the owner of a $400K house is a lot of money. Some people would end up paying more for this than they would have under RTID/ST2, depending on what they buy and where they buy it.
The King Ferry District was authorized by the legislature to raise taxes without a public vote, and without impacting any property tax limits.
The legislature should let private operators provide service. however, some core members of the Democratic coalition don’t like that because the workers would be paid less than the state ferry workers. It is interesting to note that votes in Kitsap and elsewhere to pay for expanded ferry service have failed, yet the residents’ property values are worth a lot more if there’s easy access to Seattle. Something doesn’t feel quite right here.
More buses and fixing South Park will do a lot more for nearly all residents of King County than the ferry service expansion.
@19…M…
Wingnut that I am, I do the same…leaves on the veggie beds as a mulch over the winter…then into the compost bin with them.
Still…if God had intended me to rake leaves, he wouldn’t have allowed me to own a mulching mower and have children, who though grown and gone, know that the old man always has a rake with their name on it waiting for them should they ever show up on a November afternoon.
The Piper
I find myself in surprising agreement to the critics of taking on high subsidy low volume additional ferry traffic, but that argument generalizes.
WHY IN HELL ARE WE SUBSIDIZING FERRIES AT ALL?
Too often people take a knee-jerk approach without really even looking at the figures…..even for operating costs….and certainly for carbon operating costs.
Take Washington State ferries, for example. Most of my liberal friends love them because they are mass transit and enable them to enjoy the advantages of urban workplaces but live a (significantly state subsidized) rural lifestyle in Bainbridge.
But the sad fact is that ferry boats are big….huge by comparison to their passengers…and burn diesel (which is better than it was, they used to burn bunker oil…the lowest grade of diesel) and will soon be burning low sulfur diesel, since they contribute significantly to the sulfur released into the environment in Puget Sound. In 2006 The ferries burned $39 million worth of fuel which at the price (then) of about $2.25 a gallon was roughly 17.3 million gallons. For that they bought 127 million passenger miles…. about 10.5 passenger miles to the gallon.
Now I don’t mean to sound flip here, but my wife has a huge GMC Suburban and even if it’s only got her in it, it gets 15 passenger miles to the gallon. If we have the two of us plus kids/grandkids, we can get over a hundred passenger-miles to the gallon. Yet somehow my lib friends think the highly subsidized ferry is OK for them to take to and from Bainbridge, but my wife’s ‘Burb (which is long since paid for, but which she buys gas for out of her own pocket) is somehow obscene. The vehicle also meets emission standards…you can’t say that for the ferries.
Now I’m not making these numbers up…they are publicly available http://www.ntdprogram.com/ntdp rogram/pubs/profiles/2006/agen cy_profiles/0035.pdf
Now everyone is entitled to their opinion…but in the internet era when it’s so easy to have an INFORMED opinion, it would be nice if people would at least do the math on this stuff.
So last year the ferries had operating expenses of $189 million and capital expenses of $90 million (total of $279 million)while fares covered a measly $32.5 million.
So while my wife pays for the new Tacoma Narrows bridge by user fee (toll) plus gas taxes plus having bought the vehicle to begin with our ecologically minded liberal brethren pay 8.6% of the actual cost of their chosen mode.
And that’s one of the real problems with things paid for by taxes, something called the tragedy of the commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T ragedy_of_the_commons
As gas inevitably climbs, my wife will have a serious disincentive to keep driving the old Suburban, because she’s paying all of the increase. My liberal brethren, however, who are already using a transport mode MUCH LESS EFFICIENT THAN HERS, have no such disincentive to consume, since thay are only paying 8.6 cents on the dollar anyway, and because WADOT has already gone back to the state legislature for a supplemental of $5.9 million to cover the recent increase in the price of diesel.
My liberal friends in Port Townsend are even more profligate with the commons. The PT to Keystone Ferry makes less than a million passenger trips annually, but they want at least two new vessels (at $140 million each) to replace the eighty year old vessels they have that are gradually sinking. They consider neither the capital costs in funding (largely paid for by someone else) nor the capital costs of CO2 production (somebody is smelting steel, welding, building the damn things) nor the actual operating costs (of which they pay only a fraction).
I would submit to you that my Port Townsend liberal friends and my Bainbridge liberal friends really don’t differ in any qualitative way from the senator who wanted to build that ridiculous bridge. They are profligate with both the common money and with the common carbon dioxide release, because they feel no real responsibility for either.
So I’d say it’s hard to take liberals seriously, until they start paying attention to these issues as well. Don’t bitch about my wife’s Burb and support the MVS Spokane. It’s as simple as that.
OK, when I give this argument to my liberal friends they saY IT’S NOT THEIR FAULT, that the state LURED them into thier present long and highly subsidized commutes by ….well…subsidizing them. Putting aside the issue that they themselves campaigned like hell for those subsidies, and still do, that would seem like they are saying we somehow forced them to make these anti-environmental choices…we forced them to sprawl from the urban areas to the rural areas by our public policies. If that is indeed the case, it seems like we should WEAN them from this subsidy…in the interests of saving the planet…and putting public resources to a more efficient and less environmentally toxic purpose.
What I would propose is GRADUALLY increasing ferry fares on a straight line basis to the point that user fees will pay for all ferry O&M and capital costs within the next 30 years. That would mean that in 2008 the users would cover the current 8.6% plus (1/30 x 91.4%) or 11.7%, in 2008 they would cover 14.8%, in 2009 17.8%, etc.
Seems like a reasonable (and environmentally friendly) thing to do.
#1 Goldy says:
Considering your political leanings wouldn’t this be an oxymoron?
@23…MS…
Actually, it’s more of a redundancy…\
The Piper
As I said Goldy, you are getting the Ron Sims you deserve. And as to David Irons, no one really deserves Mr. Irons.
Me, I’m changing my permanent address to Kitsap County, so there’s no need to worry about me anymore. Enjoy being stuck in traffic for another 20 years. Thank Ron next time you have him on your show for doing such a great job on leading the way into perpetual gridlock over the past 20.
#24 Piper Scott says:
Thanks for the correction. As you can tell, I went to public school.
Piper @ 3
Outstanding post. Just when I had about given up on identifying any useful role for Republicans in our country, you come up with the galley slave idea. Now, I recognize that simply chaining them to their oars might still not induce them to do anything productive given their natural disposition to slack off,delegate to others, and whine. But, perhaps a few whippings will get them going.
By the way, I saw a pipe band from Scotland on tv this morning–Red Hot Chili Pipers. They played “We Will Rock You.” It was hilarious. They certainly took the pipes in a direction I would not have anticipated.
D.O.T. has a couple (Really expensive!) passenger ferries sitting tied up in Eagle Harbor, btw. They created too large of a wake to be used or some such thing. I wonder if we could sell them and use the money to help Expand Tacoma’s link line to Tacoma General Hospital.
First of all, I don’t think there are any buyers. Those boats got mothballed because there was no way they were going to be economically self sufficient based on user fees (fares). Once the MVET subsidy went away, economically they were toast.
But the REAL problem with expansion of light rail in Tacoma is topography. There is a limit to how much change in elevation rail will tolerate per mile and expanding the current light rail to most of Tacoma simply exceeds that. Yes…you can do stretcars…with one going down pulling the other going up by underground cable, or cogwheel railroads like they have in some hilly European towns, but light rail? Uh-uh.
Ever here of the Tehachipi loop? It’s indicative of the crazy things you have to do to get rail up a hill when the grade is too high.
http://www.theav.org/tehachapi/feature/loop.htm
The reason that BNSF/Amtrak goes all the way around Pt Defiance park and keeps on the environmentally at risk area right along the tideflats is not for the gorgeous view (although it is quite nice) it’s because the topography doesn’t really allow it to go mcu of anywhere else.
Don’t take my word for it, here’s an interactive topography map of the Tacoma area. Hit the “larger” button, then you can push the area of interest around to see some of the steep terrain involved. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4411
I remember reading a light rail engineer saying back in 1995 that the connectivity of the Tacoma “starter” segment would be severely limited to the north and west. He questioned why the segment was even being built.
Here are the engineering guidelines for building light rail (caution 7 MEG download)
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onli.....t_57-a.pdf
Anyway, the design criteria for light rail only allow a maximum sustained grade of 4% and many areas in the Tacoma urban area exceed that…Seattle too for that matter, that’s why they are planning so much tunneling. The PREFERRED maximum grade… generally needed if the track is curving, is only 1%. (See para 3.3.7.6.3 Vertical Grades).
George Hansaw:
A little knowledge is dangerous. You have very little knowledge – therefore you are particulary dangerous.
A little history of trains and trolleys:
Seattle and SF have had trains and trolleys up the largest hills since the early 1900’s. Seattle used to have train lines out to Fremont. Your stupid argument that trains can’t run up hills is pathetic.
Plenty of options are available for trains to run up hills, over water and everywhere else. Tunneling disturbs less on the surface now that we (in our slavish devotion to the car and subsidies for roads) eliminated trains and have to start all over.
As for the idea of Republican powered boats:
sorry, republicans can’t even fix Katrina damage – how do we expect them to get anywhere?
Look at the mess they made in Iraq – the first thing republicans would do in order to row the ferry boats would be to fire the oars because they cooperated with democrats at one time.
Then they would try to attack all the other boats becuase they were building bigger oars.
After a lunch break that lasts all day, they would lounge around trying to think of ways to lower the taxes on rich boat owners because that would “prime” the boat economy.
Oh yeah, and then they would take money from the boat lobbyists, destroy the boat legal system and make sure that kids who row boats get no insurance unless they row without oars.
Goldy, et al ..
While I luv ferries, there is another solution for the problems in North Lake Union … the floating stadium proposal.
Seattle Jew: floating stadium proposal
The advantages are huge. By selling this as an atheletic venue rather than “transit” we immediately get buy in form the sports fans who are very willing to pay for stadia etc as long as the rest of us chip in a few bucks. Moreover, the resulting improvements to I520 would more than solve any issues affecting the bridge, moving Husky stadium to pontoons would free up property on the UW campus that must be amongst the most valuable in the state, and by selling private boxes in the
ferrystadium we would get Seattle’s bazillionaires to help subsidize the thing.5 Roger, you forgot one:
8 Klake is a Nazi U-Boat commander.
That being said, I think that disregarding his knee-jerk lapse into wingnut character assassination, Piper’s sense of the absurd is not at all misplaced here. King County has zero experience with marine operations save perhaps for a patrol boat or two operated by the Sheriff’s department. To begin with, you can’t just hire retired schoolteachers and give them a week of training to serve as part-time rush hour pilots of passenger vessels. Ron’s really jumped the shark on this one.
At the NW Biodiesel forum earlier this year, one of the panelists stated that 1/3rd of all airborne pollution around LA comes from their port. Those emissions are not regulated (e.g. boats, lifts).
I imagine we have the same situation with our port and ferries.
@13 Republicans don’t spend less of our money. They simply spend it on different stuff to benefit different people.
@15 Sell them to who?
@16 “The HA Happy Hooligan Hunting Hounds, under the leadership of dog-abuser extraordinaire, R. Rabbit, will now be sicked upon your obviously Rovian rake.”
You’re funny. If I was supervising those hounds, there wouldn’t be any hounds, they’d all be in the pound to be put to sleep.
It’s not possible to “abuse” dogs. They’re too stupid to feel pain. Just ask that Balogh mutt. And they’re definitely too dumb to vote!
@28, Mr. Hansaw, you are overstating the issue re maximum grades for light rail transit. The TRB source you cite calls its numbers recommended guidelines for general use; they are not hard and fast rules. They recommend a 6% maximum grade on runs up to a half mile and 7% on runs of up to 500 feet. Sound Transit has imposed a design maximum of 6% on Link light rail, and that maximum is reached on the elevated trackway adjacent to SR-518. I could go measure the length of this 6% section, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s more than a half mile.
There may be a really, really big catamaran ferry up for grabs in Hawaii before long. Seems the thing is anything but popular with the folks to whom it was supposed to be such a tremendous benefit.
e-mail Sims an his band of bandits. See if you can get a responce. They don’t have time for the people.
exec.sims@kingcounty.gov
reagan.dunn@metrokc.gov julia.patterson@metrokc.gov
pete.vonreichbauer@metrokc.gov jane.hague@metrokc.gov
larry.phillips@metrokc.gov dow.constantine@metrokc.gov
larry.gossett@metrokc.gov bob.ferguson@metrokc.gov
kathy.lambert@metrokc.gov
@39 I still like our bandits better than your bandits. Sims only wants another $20 a year of property taxes. Republicans want to steal your Social Seurity.
@36 RR
Impossible to abuse dogs???
Only a rabbit would say such a thing. Or maybe a squirrel!
Roger, as you well know my species and yours represent convergent evolution. The common ancestor ow Pookah and Hare is WAYYY back. In fact, while you evolved form rodents we evolved from the lucky protocanines who shared their caves with early hominids. The affection between the humans and modern dogs is bit a dim memory of what once passed between Wooky, the ancestor of modern Pookahs, and Neanderthal.
Look into a dog’s eyes and what do you see? Love, compassion , .. the best of Pookah feelings.
Look into a rabbit’s eyes. If you see anything there at all it will be carrots.
The famous Pookah scientist Niwrad, claimed that modern man actually evolved from an interspecies transfer .. a bit of dog got into Lucy. Of course, this was not enough to create a real Pookah and the result was the Wookie, an erect dog with the intellect of a human and empathy of a dog.
There is speculation about how we the Pookahs evolved from the Wookie. One idea is that we needed long ears to be able to be seen by our human pets as we both ran through the tall grass of Africa. I never could figure out why you rabbits have long ears.
@28, Mr. Hansaw, you are overstating the issue re maximum grades for light rail transit. The TRB source you cite calls its numbers recommended guidelines for general use; they are not hard and fast rules. They recommend a 6% maximum grade on runs up to a half mile and 7% on runs of up to 500 feet. Sound Transit has imposed a design maximum of 6% on Link light rail, and that maximum is reached on the elevated trackway adjacent to SR-518. I could go measure the length of this 6% section, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s more than a half mile.
Look at the topo map of Tacoma. There are LOTS of areas that exceed a 6 and even 7% grade.
But I’m overstating nothing…I state precisely what the recommendations are, and post the URL. The point is still a valid one, and if you look at the railroad tracks throughout Tacoma, that’s the sort of grade you find them on. As I said, yuou can indeed have streetcars, cogwheel railroads, and other such modes of transport, but the grades you see in Tacoma represent an engineering challenge to Light Rail. That’s just fact.
@27…PL…
And in a direction God never intended them to go…Like the utilikilt, a spawn of Satan to be destroyed and wiped from the face of the earth.
The Piper
@38…AF…
Would it offer those yummy drinks in hollowed out pineapples and coconuts with the little umbrellas? And hula dances, aloha shirts, and poi?
That’s a commute worth commuting for!
The Piper
Piper
I do not believe God intended bagpipes at all.
Why passenger ferries? Because once the passengers are out of their cars, they have to use other means to get around in Seattle. One passenger = one less car on the street.
High speed ferries do not pollute anymore than diesel buses. No reason they can’t use biodiesel; Dr. Diesel fueled his early prototype engines with peanut oil!
@45…PL…
Then why are they specifically mentioned in Scripture? The piano isn’t, nor is an E flat alto peckhorn, but the pipe is.
The Piper
@22
Of course you’re right, gas taxes should not be used for ferries or anything that carries cars…like roads and bridges.
Instead of taking a ferry we should all drive around the long way: polluting, wearing out roads, etc. And we could build more roads to handle all the extra traffic too. What a great idea!
Piper @ 47
Okay, I’ll bite. Where in Scripture, the Book of Armaments?
@49…PL…
“You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, and bagpipe and all kinds of music, is to fall down and worship the golden image.” Daniel 3:10 NAS.
Some translations use another word (e.g., sackbut), but bagpipe is a literal and correct translation. It’s also referenced elsewhere, too…I or II Kings, as I recall.
BTW…every European and Middle Eastern culture has an indigenous bagpipe.
The Piper
#47 Piper Scott says:
And so is the trumpet, which is considered to be the best instrument of all time. All due respect Mr. Piper.
@51…MS…
Pretty brassy of you, Marvin!
Got Herb Alpert on the brain, have you?
The Piper
Piper @ 50
If I read the Daniel passage correctly, would you not agree that the pipe is being referenced as a tool of idolatry?
@53…PL…
No…the instrument itself is morally neutral, just as a hammer would be. Left to itself, it is neither good nor bad. Moral culpability comes only to the one who uses it for good or ill.
The Piper
There’s an old joke that starts “A man walks into a bar carrying an octopus…”
On second thought, never mind!
“Water Taxi, sure, why not.”
How about the fact that in it’s current incarnation, using Seacrest Park as a transit hub for the Water Taxi is in blatant violation of Seattle Ordinance 118477:
——
BE IT ORDAINED BY THE CITY OF SEATTLE AS FOLLOWS:
Section 1. All lands and facilities held now or in the future by The City of Seattle for park and recreation purposes, whether designated as park, park boulevard, or open space, shall be preserved for such use; and no such land or facility shall be sold, transferred, or changed from park use to another usage, unless the City shall first hold a public hearing regarding the necessity of such a transaction and than enact an ordinance finding that the transaction is necessary because there is no reasonable and practical alternative and the City shall at the same time or before receive in exchange land or a facility of equivalent or better size, value, location and usefulness in the vicinity, serving the same community and the same park purposes.
——–
The Water Taxi was run as a “test project” for several years to get around this. The city has done a docking study that shows that Seacrest is not a safe or suitable facility for the Water Taxi; and the use of the fishing pier and SCUBA diving facilities have been limited during Water Taxi operations (the very recreational uses that the park is supposed to serve). The coves where the Water Taxi is currently operating at Seacrest Park is one of the most popular dive spots in the Pacific Northwest; divers come from as far as Montana and Northern California to get into the water here.
The city needs to get the docking facility built and get the Water Taxi OUT of the park.
The Discovery Institute has been pushing this stupid passenger ferry concept for years now. Their other brilliant idea: Freeway Monorail (which was to be paid for by killing off light rail)
The ex-Reaganite Discovery clowns claim passenger ferry service can be operated by a private company, but look at what happened to landlocked Kingston’s ferry. Lasted less than a year.
Keep in mind, the Intelligent Designers want the public to eat the capital costs. Shame on Ron Sims for cavorting with these pie-in-the-sky lunatics. As soon as their dumb ideas tank, they just walk away from it all…and move on to their next moronic concept (which always starts with a pretty drawing)
@22
Of course you’re right, gas taxes should not be used for ferries or anything that carries cars…like roads and bridges.
Instead of taking a ferry we should all drive around the long way: polluting, wearing out roads, etc. And we could build more roads to handle all the extra traffic too. What a great idea!
I thought we were supposed to FIGHT urban sprawl…not subsidize it to places like Bainbridge by charging commuters 9% of the actual cost of their commutes.
Apparently I must be goring your ox…..
We can solve our transportation needs by cutting off
the supply of gasoline to ANYBODY that votes for a democrat
and cut off the power to their homes since they are against
everything. FUCK EM
Hey Pelletizer (TM) pawed: “Well, Ron Sims is at it again. This guy never quits. At figuring out novel ways to spend our money, I mean.”
Excuse me for a minute. Didn’t you and your fellow ASSWiper (TM) friends support Ron Tax to the Max Sims? You get what you vote for.
Piper Scott: You think of Herb Alpert, I think of Miles Davis, Louie Armstrong or Elwood Buchanan.
Piper, you assumed Proud Leftist has read his Bible let alone an apocryphal book such as Daniel. I know I assume at least one copy of the Good Book lives in his house.
Most liberals haven’t blown the dust from their Bibles in years.
Hey ArtFart: Did the Octopus start talking about “phony soldiers”?
@ 27 PL said: “By the way, I saw a pipe band from Scotland on tv this morning–Red Hot Chili Pipers. They played “We Will Rock You.” It was hilarious. They certainly took the pipes in a direction I would not have anticipated.
(plus Piper, I bet you’re really itching to see it, too!)
Found this on YouTube (still waiting for my dialup to load it).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MawaHGXMRoo
Red Hot Chilli Pipers Live – We Will Rock you
One comment was interesting, BTW:
armstrow99 (2 weeks ago)
The Pipers are playing a gig in New York on the 14th Nov. Connollys in Time Square. One of them was a Fireman and they are playing for a 9/11 charity. They are back again in March for Tartan week.
#40 Roger Rabbit says:
@39 I still like our bandits better than your bandits. Sims only wants another $20 a year of property taxes. Republicans want to steal your Social Seurity.
I think it is a little more than $20 year, further more I am already collecting Social SECURITY.