Supporters of the proposed Black Rock reservoir near Yakima are admitting they made a $2 billion error in estimating how much money would come from electricity produced by the project.
[…] Charlie de la Chapelle, a Yakima Valley fruit grower who is vice chairman of the alliance, said the grass-roots group regrets the mistake.
“We apologize for the error. We vow to scrutinize numbers we release more carefully and stand behind our other public statements,” de la Chapelle said.
Chapelle should run for President.
The Yakima Basin Storage Alliance now estimates that power sales will generate $412 million over forty years. Due to a calculation error an initial report had estimated power benefits at $2.4 billion.
Correcting the error reduced the current projected Black Rock benefits to $3.8 billion, an amount that is less than the estimated construction cost of $4.2 billion.
Of course, the US Bureau of Reclamation estimates that the reservoir would only return about 30 cents on the dollar, but I wouldn’t worry about the over $2 billion discrepancy because, you know… the YBSA has vowed to “scrutinize” its numbers.
Hmm. I don’t know enough about the environmental and economic impact of the Black Rock project to take a position one way or the other. The Yakima Basin is a crucial agricultural region to our state and our nation, and with global warming threatening the Cascade ice pack, water shortages could reach crisis proportions within decades. But it’s stupid-ass shit like this that makes taxpayers suspicious of all big, public infrastructure projects.
Overestimating the power revenues by 600 percent. Gimme a break.
Let’s be clear. Whatever the reservoir’s merits, the YBSA and its political supporters in Benton and Yakima counties are seeking to finance this project primarily through huge state and federal subsidies. If the project makes economic and environmental sense, fine. I could support it. Just be honest about the numbers.
And while you’re at it, why not be honest about the flow of tax revenues in this state, and stop lying to your constituents by perpetuating the myth that dollars flow East to West? Your dams, your irrigation projects, your freeways and your universities were built primarily with state and federal tax dollars. Nobody’s asking for any “thank you’s” — we’re just tired of all the “fuck you’s.”
Only 2 billion? Not a bad estimate for Xmas Ghost’s inbred relatives in the ‘hand me out’ half of the state.
“Your damns …”
Hmmm … a Freudian slip, Goldy?
The huge cost and meager economic return of the project is the biggest, but not the only, criticism. In a Dec. 28 op-ed in the P-I, Rachel Paschal Osborn said,
“In the Yakima River basin, … [g]ood ideas, such as water banking and conservation projects, are leading to real solutions. But the Black Rock dam and reservoir project, deserves immediate expulsion from the menu of water supply options. …
“At $4.2 billion in construction expenses and $78 million in annual operating (O&M) costs, the Black Rock dam-reservoir proposal is simply too costly for state and federal taxpayers … the Bureau of Reclamation’s recent cost-benefit analysis … concludes that the project would generate only 16 cents for every federal dollar spent on the project. … And that analysis shows Black Rock is a financial calamity for the federal taxpayer.
“Beyond questions of economics, however, Black Rock problems run deep and wide. First is the tectonic trio: earthquakes, fault zones and landslides. According to the bureau’s geology study, Black Rock Valley is prone to large, magnitude 6 or 7, earthquakes. A fault zone sits directly beneath the proposed dam site and earthquakes will cause the fault to move. Meanwhile, the steep slopes of Rattlesnake Ridge, above the proposed reservoir, are unstable. As those slopes are inundated, then drained each year, the potential for large landslides increases. The … bureau’s own technical studies repeatedly call for more analysis of those critical geologic issues.
“Hanford is another key concern. Black Rock reservoir would leak water downward into local groundwater, potentially speeding migration of Hanford’s toxic and radioactive contaminants toward the Columbia River. …
“Options do exist for the Yakima basin. Twenty-first century solutions for water management include water markets, conservation and putting water to its highest and best use. Raising false hopes for new dams and reservoirs only delays the real reforms that are needed today.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete article and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/y5abfa
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Rachel Paschal Osborn knows what she’s talking about. She used to be executive director of Seattle-based Center for Environmental Law and Policy (CELP), a non-profit focusing on water issues. A lawyer practicing public-interest environmental law, she now lives and works in Spokane, and is one of our state’s leading voices on behalf of responsible water resources management.
What a FUCKING HYPOCRITE! Please tell us all about the (Un)Sound Transit and their “honest numbers”.
You liberals are such fucking hypocrites. You say you are going to raise the minimum wage and go on with all your proletariat bullshit about the working man that sounds really nice. But apparently if one is unlucky enough to live in Nancy Pelosi’s district and work for Chicken of the Sea, a subsidiary of Del Monte Corp, they get screwed as the current bill excludes that corporation from having to pay minimum wage.
That is the same kind of fucking hypocrisy as Ted Haggard preaching family values one minute and having gay meth driven sex the next. Your both the extreme sides of the same goddamn coin.
One of the few moderate Republicans in Olympia once commented about the government bashing engaged in by many Eastern Washington elected officials (nearly all Republican): “There are more government jobs in Eastern Washington than there were in Eastern Europe under the Soviets.” I doubt if the actual numbers are true, but the point is certainly valid. Government spending props up a great many of Eastern Washington’s tax and government hating populace.
Yeah, that and $100,000 hi tech crackhouse toilets, billion dollar tunnels, transit solutions that coast thousands of dollars per rider, millions for monorails that never get built, confiscation of public monies to build baseball stadiums to subsidize millionaire sports players….
If you were honest, you would list ALL the boondoggles and demand accountability. But then no one ever accused you of being honest.
And what the fuck about the gas tax? They told us that we would get a whole bunch of roads and shit built with that money. Now they are revealing their “numbers” weren’t honest. Oh I am sure they will “scrutinize” their numbers.
Goldstein, you are simply playing left wing political shit like this to make the other side look bad. Yes the damn is a boondoggle and so is a tunnel and many other projects. But when you deny the others and only point out this one, you lose any credibility and fall into the category of political hack not to be taken seriously. You are the small pond Goebbels of Western Washington.
Is that you, auntie? Sure sound like him. I know I don’t have to defend Goldy, but comparing him to a Nazi? That takes some balls.
A Jan. 4 story in the Tri-Cities Herald says a competing study by Black Rock promoters asserts large economic benefits from real estate development and tourism:
“The Yakima Basin Storage Alliance said a study … will show the proposed project could generate $6.68 billion in revenue from tourism and energy sales during the two decades after it’s built.
“The study … would add to and contrast with a state and federal report that found the proposed project would provide taxpayers with just 14 to 31 cents in benefits for every dollar spent to built it.
“‘We’re not doing this to spite the federal government,’ said Sid Morrison, chairman of the association. ‘The Bureau of Reclamation invited us to give additional information on the study.’ The analysis, which was financed by Benton and Yakima counties and the Port of Sunnyside …, will be released … Monday.
” … Morrison … touted Black Rock as an ‘oasis in the desert’ and weighed the costs and benefits of the proposed project … Morrison said the creation of 10 square miles of water for recreation and the integration of wind-generated power represent potential benefits not examined by the state and federal government.
“According to Morrison … the construction of the Black Rock reservoir would lead to $2.9 billion in residential and resort development during a 20-year period. Energy sales associated with the reservoir would generate $2.4 billion during that same time period and revenue from tourism and recreation was estimated at $1.2 billion.
” … [T]he study’s conclusions would appear to soothe some of the sticker shock associated with the project’s high-priced cost of development. The project was criticized as pie-in-the-sky after the state and federal governments released their study in December and opponents such as the Columbia Institute for Water Policy said it should be shelved.
“achael Paschal Osborn, who directs the Columbia Institute for Water Policy, said at the time the Black Rock project threatens to usurp the water supply throughout the Columbia watershed. ….
Morrison said …the benefits of Black Rock were being vastly underestimated. On Wednesday, he said the earlier study didn’t look at the potential benefits of the project beyond the high-water mark. With those values included, Morrison believes Black Rock has the potential to be a profit center while at the same time providing a better match for the energy supply and demand curves.
“What’s not included in the analysis is the environmental value for recovering salmon in the Yakima River — Morrison touted a return to historic runs beyond 800,000 fish per year — and the potential economic value of providing a stable water supply for agricultural uses.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/yf4nw9
Roger Rabbit Commentary: First, let’s be clear about Black Rock’s potential to restore Columbia River salmon runs to their historic levels: None. These runs today are about 2% to 5% of historic levels because of a combination of factors including overfishing, habitat loss, and the effect of mainstem dams that, among other things, cut off salmon from upstream spawning grounds. Black Rock will do absolutely nothing to solve those problems. The fish claims are based on the argument that the reservoir will store water that could be fed into the Columbia River system at critical times when fish need water flows. But to fill the reservoir in the first place, and keep it full, you have to divert water from the Columbia River needed by the fish. The Columbia R.’s water flow is already fully appropriated by downstream users, so where else would this water come from, except to take it away from the water presently allocated to fish purposes? And, if the reservoir is to fulfill its primary purpose of supplying irrigation water to the Yakima Basin, the water so used obviously isn’t available to maintain in-stream flows for fish.
Now as to residential and recreational development, and tourism: We already have two large central Washington impoundments roughly the size of Black Rock: Banks Lake and Potholes Reservoir. These water bodies sport one private resort each, plus somewhere between 10 and 40 vacation homes. They are under-utilized for camping, boating, fishing, and other water recreation, even though both have state parks with camping facilities and numerous boat ramps in addition to the private resorts. Why? Because they’re far from Washington’s population centers, and most of the people living nearby are too busy making a living to spend much time on recreation. Let’s also consider the Yakima Valley topography. It’s very similar to the land around Banks and Potholes lakes: Barren of trees, filled with scrub brush, hot and dry in summer and cold in winter, and just not very scenic or enjoyable most of the year. So who the fuck is going to build over $1 billion of resorts and vacation homes on Rattlesnake Ridge? And why should the taxpayers being asked to foot the bill believe this will happen in the Yakima Valley, when it hasn’t happened at Potholes or Moses Lake? There is already inexpensive land available in far more scenic places near Lake Roosevelt, in Okanagon County, and other places in eastern Washington that are far more attractive for resort, vacation home, and recreation development than Rattlesnake Ridge. These claims, too, are pie-in-the-sky.
This project is on a par with the proposed NASCAR racetrack: Huge expense for taxpayers for minimal economic benefits, lots of impacts, and inflated promises. It’s a JAB. (Just Another Boondoggle)
The Yakima Valley’s water supply problems are real, and the Yakima Valley is, in fact, one of our state’s most fertile and productive agricultural areas. But spending $4 billion of taxpayers’ money on a giant reservoir doesn’t answer the question of “where are they going to get the water to put in the reservoir” in an era of warming climate, drier summers, multi-year droughts, and diminishing mountain snowpacks. The real question here, apart from the enormous cost and questionable economic benefits, should be: “If they build it, will the rains come?”
Amazing. Goldy has called for accountability every time a new boondoggle happens, but because he doesn’t mention every boondoggle that has happened in every new boondoggle story, you compare him to a nazi?
We’ve had tons of world-class boondoggles in Washington State and if you listed every one of them it would make any new story 40 or 50 pages long. This would be torturous to read.
It makes me wonder where you went to school. My English teacher was always making sure we stayed focused on the subject we were writing about, rather than trying to fill up our word and page count with stuff that didn’t pertain to the subject at hand.
@5 There are two kinds of jobs in eastern Washington: Agricultural and government. Unless you own a corporate farm or ag business, in which case you may be very rich (there are growers in the Yakima Valley with personal net worths in excess of $100 million), if you’re an agricultural worker you’re either working in a fruit warehouse for minimum wage or you’re seasonally employed in the fields earning piece rate. I’ve spent some time hopping around the byways of eastern Washington, and on my travels there, I’m more likely to get run over by a government vehicle or an RV than by a car driven by a year-round resident. There’s not much there besides dams and power stations, shuttered aluminum smelters, farms and ag processing plants, schools, military bases, and WSDOT maintenance shops. It’s true that many of the better paying jobs in eastern Washington are with the various federal and state agencies. Most of the retail and private sector hourly jobs are minimum wage or little more. The private sector does not produce many good-paying jobs in that part of the state, and most of those are in the region’s four cities.
Bullshit! Where is his call for accountability on Sound Transit that promised one thing and underdelivered (yet to be seen) another?? What about Seattle’s $100K hi tech toilet/crack/whore house shelters and the $10 million boondoggle maintenance contract??
Where is his call for Nancy Pelosi to grant minimum wage to ALL Americans instead of excluding the poor motherfuckers unfortunate enough to work for Del Monte, a corporation in Pelosi’s district?
The comparison to the Nazi propaganda minister is an apt one. Both parties are cooked fuckers. It is just that the Democrats are not as amateurish in their crimes as Republicans. Having most journalist being liberals sympathetic to Democrats themselves doesn’t hurt either.
Am I to assume that the taxpayers will pay the difference?
Wow you bitch about a dam, but nary a word about an underpass on I-90 just for ANIMALS……
Priorities are abound in the HA World.
Sounds like Sound Transit type of estimating
Kiro
kingprincess:Perhaps you missed it earlier.
Fuck you!
‘Nuff said.
To My LeftNut @ 16
Back at Ya !!!!
Maybe you can go walk with the Animals after it is built, and enjoy your tax dollars at work…
@12
Man, are you singing my song. There’s a handful of attention-challenged posters on this blog who scream at each other like grade-schoolers at recess – and nothing, but, nothing ever changes. Nobody is convinced or swayed by anyone else’s argument. Day after day, main topic or no. Rehash after rehash after rehash. Jesus Fucking Christ.
And from the self-enraptured, strutting Roger Rabbit *gack* to anti-liberal to ‘cult of masculinity’ MTR *jeesus* to Klake to JCH to Proud Leftist – on, and on, and on. Yacky-Yacky-Yak.
Why anyone would wish to register to vote and cast a ballot for either side is a laugh and a joke.
This place is proof of what Pogo said.
Scream away, chillin’
How’s about Yakima and Benton Counties fix the problem of over allocation of water rights before they come to the taxpayers for a giant handout?
These are some of the state’s most inefficient irrigation water users. They have some serious house cleaning to do before they ask the rest of us for help building a new addition.
These guys screwed up, big time.
But it doesn’t appear that the people promoting Black Rock are the Seattle haters or the GOP troglodites. The Black Rock crowd is pretty progressive compared to a lot of the GOP in Eastern Washington.
The water issues in the Yakima Valley are real.
Black Rock may not be the solution to them. But it is not a terrible idea.
Senator Tub Hansen, D Moses Lake, understood the irony of all those Republican ranchers who fed off federal programs. The Tri-Cities is also full of people who vote GOP and live off the federal government.
When Tub was in the legislature there were still a lot of Democrats in the county courthouses of Eastern Washington. There aren’t many now.
But that can change – again. It looks like the GOP is beginning to tank again over there.
There was an article in Friday’s paper about maybe letting the schools just blow off the days missed because of global warming induced wind storms and snow storms. The excuse given was that Mrs. Gregoire declared a state of emergency after the windstorm that’s still in effect.
So it occurred to me…. why not just declare a permanent state of emergency? That way, a few of our elite gummint officials could just do whatever the fuck they want and get away with it. No need for debate in the legislature. Initiatives would be a thing of the past. No more “advisory” votes on anything. Given the legislatures librul use of the concept of “emergencies” in the past to build stadiums and bike trails, why not go the next step and just make it permanent? Seems logical to me…
re 18: You need to let a little love and tolerance back into your life. Start voting again and make your weak and insipid voice heard.
I sure do.
I wear a wool sweater at all times and I sweat like a pig. I screech loadly and smell like a 3 day old plate of anti-pasto that’s been left in the sun. But, people love me anyway. And they’ll love you ,too!! Even if you are a little timid and weak-minded.
@13 “TruthProbe says: Am I to assume that the taxpayers will pay the difference? 01/13/2007 at 3:02 pm”
Who else?
14 “Kiroking says: Wow you bitch about a dam, but nary a word about an underpass on I-90 just for ANIMALS…… Priorities are abound in the HA World. 01/13/2007 at 3:33 pm”
God, why are wingnuts such fucking liars? Why do have to spend 90% of our time on this blog debunking the same wingnut BULLSHIT that has been refuted 100 times already? Kiroking, you are an ignorant jackass. Here’s the reason for the project:
“Potato Hill Bridge over I-90 is so low that some trucks have to take a 40-mile detour to avoid the overpass.” http://tinyurl.com/y6trmv
Now, if there’s still any part of this you don’t understand, go fuck yourself and pet your armadillo.
@18 Why are you still here? Haven’t you left yet?
@20 Yeah, it IS a terrible idea — if it’s outrageously expensive and they don’t have the water to put in it.
Is Black Rock a Perpetual Motion Machine?
One of the alleged “benefits” touted by Black Rock promoters is hydroelectric generation. Apart from the 600% error in calculating power sales, let’s examine where the water that generates the power will come from in the first place.
It will be pumped UP to Black Rock Reservoir, elevation 1778 feet, from Priest Rapids Dam, elevation 390 feet. Then it will flow through turbines at Black Rock dam and into the Yakima River, which flows into the Columbia River below McNary Dam, elevation 340 feet.
Someone please explain how you get net power generation from pumping the water that generates the power uphill in order to generate the power? Are these folks saying the water in Black Rock Reservoir will generate more power than is consumed getting the water up there?
Please note that Black Rock Reservoir is NOT surrounding by high, snow-capturing mountains. It is up on an arid plateau, more than 1,000 feet above its water source, the Columbia River. Only a few small seasonal creeks flow into the basin which is the site of the proposed reservoir; so almost none of the reservoir’s water will be indigenous water; it all has to be pumped up from the Columbia River.
Unless some remarkable advances have been made in the science of mechanics, you can’t get a power output larger than the power input by pumping water uphill in order to generate power. That would constitute a Perpetual Motion Machine, the mechanical equivalent of a car that needs no fuel because its motor drives a generator that produces more power than is required to run the motor. Ain’t possible, folks.
When they talk about Black Rock hydropower generation, all they’re talking about is recapturing a small percentage of the energy that was used to get the water up to the reservoir.
For more information about the Black Rock project, including maps, click here:
http://www.usbr.gov/pn/program.....cument.pdf
I should add that neither of the two irrigation storage reservoirs with which Black Rock is more frequently compared, Banks Lake and Potholes, generates any power.
most frequently compared
wow! Goldy posts a comment on an arcane water project topic, and this thread is already over 30 posts! That’s more than the sucky little jihad blog gets, even when they’re posting inflammatory crap like advocating terrorist attacks on U.S. airliners to get out the Republican vote.
Roger,
What is the relationship between Potato Bridge and the bridges for critters over I -090
@25
Are you kidding? The Looneiest Tune of them all? P-b-b-b-b-bleeeease! The man who posts and posts and posts and posts and posts and posts and posts and posts and… – and sometimes writes little “plays” to perform, RESPONDING TO HIS OWN POSTS. Aren’t you gone yet?
I’ll be gone the day you walk away from your keyboard, Lawyer-boy.
Amusingly you claim some sort of moral superiority yet seldom if ever have the presence of mind to acknowledge when you’re wrong. (Remember when you thought I was a felon? Jesus.)
As for Dr. Stinkey-poo @22 my weak and insipid voice, along with a timid heart and weak mind keep me in good company here, Charlie.
@31
Wow! And nearly a third of them are yours! Keep typing; you can break your daily record. You can do it! You can do it! You have an opinion on EVERYTHING! (well, duh, you’re an attorney…)
My spidey senses tell me another must-be-shared thought from the leporidae lunatic is one its way!
I’m tired of people like Tired_of_Both_Parties
@# 11
“@5 There are two kinds of jobs in eastern Washington: Agricultural and government.” This is becoming less and less true in left leaning (at least by eastern Wa. standards) Spokane.
Spokane is also home to state Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, which is an important factoid to remember when the folks from the drier part of the state start complaining about how they lack political representation.
Roger is right about the type of jobs in Eastern Washington, but my point (and that of the moderate Republican who I first quoted) was broader. Almost all of Eastern Washington’s economy is dependent on government. The Fed’s Coulee Dam project created the climate for much of the agriculure there. WSU’s research created many of the specific product markets (wheat, lentils, wine) and improved most of the others. The Fed’s Hanford project created thousands of jobs and cleaning up its legacy thousands more. Farm to market roads paid by those of us in Western Washington. Other dams built by local PUDs. It goes on and on. The private sector has taken advantage of these efforts as it should and created more jobs. But without the massive investment of government, Eastern Washington might be Appalachia. I don’t care if someone is conservative and favors limited government, but anyone in Eastern Washington who is anti-government or who actively trashes government (as the GOP has taught them to do) is a hypocrit- plain and simple.
@37
We sometimes forget (or newbies in the state have never been told) that over thirty years ago, some of the most moderate – even progressive voices in Olympia – came from the state GOP led by Daniel Evans, Slade Gorton, Joel Pritchard and Charles Moriarty. In many ways, state politics sometimes stood on its head back then: Some of the most conservative voices were democrats; some of the most liberal, republicans. Times do change.
@33 I see. Since posting on HA is a voluntary activity, and you’re still here, I’ll assume you volunteered for this, in which case you have no complaint.
@34 I have my faults, but mispelling 2-letter words like “on” isn’t one of them.
@34 A wingnut complaining about having to share space on a political blog with opinionated people is like Ted Bundy complaining about having to share a cell with a serial killer.
@38 Slade Gorton was no moderate. He was anti-environment, anti-Indian, anti-labor, and not very kind to consumers, either.
@42
As a member of state legislature from 1959 to 1969 (were you a resident of the state then?) and his early years as Evans Attorney General, he established his moderate credentials. Goldwater conservatism, so passe and mild by today’s standards were really out there in this state in the mid-sixties – despite the votes in the state for Gov. Wallace in ’68! And our GOP wasn’t about to embrace it – yet. Gorton became increasingly conservative throughout the 70’s, becoming the man you reference.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....dge10.html
Roger,
The above link, is my source for the Animal Bypasses. I am surprised you think an “overpass” in Moses lake “Potato Bridge” project is the same as an UNDERPASS on I-90 for animals….
Jeezzz Roger, you are giving Rabbits a bad name. Now will you please tell me again
“God, why are wingnuts such fucking liars? Why do have to spend 90% of our time on this blog debunking the same wingnut BULLSHIT that has been refuted 100 times already? Kiroking, you are an ignorant jackass. Here’s the reason for the project”
I suggest spend some time comparing your link with mine, and tell me who is the Jackass…..
BTW Sgmmac @ 32 is looking for your answer too….
#41 –
Roger, Roger, Roger. P-b-b-b-b-bleeeease! Spidey senses were right! You couldn’t resist SHARING ANOTHER THOUGHT, QUIP OR COMMENT.
And of course, ANYONE WHO CHALLENGES THE AWESOMENESS OF YOUR postings is a – hold for it – W I N G N U T. You are so full of shit, cony-boy. And, of course, wrong again.
You’re the collective pain in the ass here, buckaroo. Not your politics, really. Just you.
You never met a HA post you couldn’t respond to. Why don’t you stop sucking off the tit of Goldy’s success and start a blog of your own. Now that would be entertainment!
You hog the bandwidth, bunny-boy. Oh, and thanks, for that spelling correction on post #34. Boy, that stung. What would this blog do without you?
Come on motor mouth, post,post,post, time’s a’wasting.
Posting isn’t voluntary on this blog for YOU. It’s an addiction. You just get pissed when people can’t fathom your superior intellect, or try to take the limelight away, or disagree. You’re the STAR of HorsesAss.Org and nobody steals your thunder.
@45
Let me post for myself, thank you.
#46 –
Oh, I see: you have dibs on that anonymous handle…
Well, for that matter, ALL of these posts could be the work of 3 or 4 individuals…
HA!
#44 & #45: What do you expect from the rabbit? Furball the Pelletizer can’t figure out what “IF” means. He doesn’t understand it can be a noun!
But he knows how to have sex with them animals!
How much electricity will it take to pump millions of gallons of water 1,300 feet uphill? The BPA can’t supply enough power for the region’s needs, and we’re already buying power from Montana coal plants, so where will this electricity come from? Does Black Rock mean building another huge, polluting, coal-fired power plant in Montana?
45, 46 Reading HA comment threads is a voluntary activity, except for people suffering from internet addiction. Have you considered seeking therapy for your problem? While you’re at it, you could use an attitude adjustment, too.
#44 & #45: Maybe Furball’s elevator can’t make it to the top anymore!
Man it’s fun to piss off rightys! Better than sex. Well, almost.
32, 44 Wingnuts never let go of anything (see, e.g., 2004 governor’s election), so why wouldn’t I think you’re still bitching about the gas tax and Potato Hill? The animal crossings seem like a good idea to me and my friends! But it doesn’t surprise me that Republicans are in favor of cars crashing into deer. You guys not only hate people (see, e.g., how many people you’re trying to kill in various parts of the globe), you also hate animals (see, e.g., #48 & #51). Man I love annoying rightys!!! :)
The Republicans have never met an animal species they didn’t want to make extinct, including homo sapiens.
@45 “You’re the STAR of HorsesAss.Org and nobody steals your thunder.”
No, I’m just a fucking rabbit. Aren’t you embarrassed that I’m smarter than you?
@46 How long have you been talking to yourself? Does everyone in your family do this? Do you know other Republicans who do this? Does George W. Bush talk to himself? I know he talks to God. Maybe he thinks HE is God … ? I know Pat Robertson thinks HE’S God … !
Hey, can any of your wingfuck geniuses tell me how much electricity it will take to keep Black Rock Reservoir full, and where that electricity will come from, and who will pay for it?
@ 53
Wow, you rabbits sure can spin can’t you.. You always seem so “up” on our tax dollars, and can ALWAYS excuse the expense.
I can’t believe you dont remember the dear dem’s wanting to spend MILLIONS on 14 animal crossings in a 15 mile stretch for a cost of $400 million ++++…..
Jeeezzz I thought kept up on things…..Instead you use excuses and call me names. I guess you truly dont want to debate the issues…..Unless you can find a spelling error, or an error in the posting…..
Well, it used to be 100 million for the critter crossings….
400 million????
No wonder we can’t get any fucking roads built!
Roger
STOP, you blabber too much. You pull a post apart, and spin it until the Post is DEAD. There are times when you answer yourself, or you wait till some poor soul wakes up and responds to your rants.
You are one of the more “reasonable” posters at times, but that is expected of someone who is responsible for 80% of this blogs traffic.
So give it a rest…..Your not a rabbit. Rabbits can’t type, and they spend 90% of their time F*cking. You can’t type and F*ck, not possible, you need all your paws.
@ 59 sgmmac
From my earlier link:
The costs for this alternative range from $410 million to $980 million, depending in part on the type of animal crossings constructed.
I did the math, and it is over 400 million…..
60 Of course I’m not a rabbit, I’m a human pretending to be a rabbit. But I know that I’m pretending, which is more than I can say for some of the primordial slime on this blog pretending to be human, that thinks it IS human!
kiroking
If the State spends between $410 million & $980 million to re-construct 15 miles of I-90 from 4 lanes to 6 lanes, then how much of that money is designated to critter crossings?
Did you send for the additional data packet & somehow learn from it that $400 million ++++ was for the animal transits & escapement? Or did you just quickly skim the article with no reading comprehension & cherry pick your bogus dollar value & post it here?
You know, it looks to me that they plan to spend a few hundred thousand on the beasts & several millions on the highway. I wonder if $27 million per mile is a good deal for highway construction? What do you suppose is a valid cost/price ratio for ending vehicle & animal collisions? Hey, what could it be worth to keep one cute little ski bunny (whadda’ ya’ think rabbit?) from wrecking her Honda Accord & filing a $28,000 insurance claim against McGavick’s former employer? Hey, then they can afford another day of his retirement.
Think, think, think.
@58, 59 Regardless of whether I’m a real rabbit, or only a human pretending to be a rabbit, or maybe a rabbit lying about really being a human — I have better reading comprehension (and understanding of public issues) than you guys.
The $400 million isn’t for animal crossings, you fucking dolts! It’s for straightening and widening 15 miles of I-90. If you’ve priced mountain highways lately, that isn’t out of line for the amount of blasting, grading, filling, and paving involved.
In case you’re not familiar with this particular stretch of I-90, it’s the dangerous, narrow, twisty, steep, downhill run from Snoqualmie summit throught the snow shed and past Lake Keechelus down into the flatter ground approaching Cle Elum. That stretch of highway is a bitch to drive after dark, especially in bad weather. You’re blinded by the lights of oncoming vehicles, and there’s damned little maneuvering room when a semi passes you at 75.
WSDOT and others have been talking about widening I-90 for many years. The highway’s 2 lanes in each direction can no longer accomodate the traffic, resulting in frequent backups during peak travel times.
As for the animal crossings, just because you don’t care about the aesthetic, recreational, or economic value of wildlife to our state and its citizens doesn’t mean nobody else does. Try getting off your self-centered high horse sometime. You fucking wingers don’t hesitate to squander billions on military adventurism or corporate giveaways, so your pitiful whining about investing a little in wildlife will get no sympathy from me. Fuck your nickel-and-diming! When you’re ready to get serious about government spending, give me a call at 1-800-BLOW-ROG.
@63 Yeah, they don’t have any problem with Road Kill McGavick making $28 million for two months of part-time “consulting” work from their insurance premiums – but they bitch about a pedestrian overpass or animal underpass that will personally cost them less than a penny. Christ these people complain about anything that benefits the public! And they accuse ME of “ranting”? Sometimes I intentionally imitate the posters on wingnut blogs so they can see what it looks like. Guess they don’t like it when their own medicine is fed back to them! How’s that castor oil taste, kiddies? HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@60 Make me. Better yet, kiss my cute cottontail! For a good time, call 1-800-LICK ROG.
@60 re 66: In case you didn’t figure it out, I just invited you to kiss my ass.
whl & Pelletboy
Takes a good Democrat to give the public an estimate of this calliper”
If the State spends between $410 million & $980 million to re-construct 15 miles of I-90 from 4 lanes to 6 lanes, then how much of that money is designated to critter crossings.
Read please a portion of the link I provided
“The costs for this alternative range from $410 million to $980 million, depending in part on the type of animal crossings constructed.
What part don’t you understand.
Oh, WOW! Mister Gorton got mentioned!! He and Daddy were getting drunk the other night, when Mister Gorton suggested going out to the Rose Garden and shooting a few Injuns. But Daddy was too drunk to get up, so Mister Gorton went with MTRK instead.
Sounds like the cost estimates on a certain failed tunnel in Seattle…..
I am an asshole. That is why I am tired of people pointing out hypocrisy.
So just think of me as the resident asshole.
Jenna Bush says: Oh, WOW! Mister Gorton got mentioned!! He and Daddy were getting drunk the other night, when Mister Gorton suggested going out to the Rose Garden and shooting a few Injuns. But Daddy was too drunk to get up, so Mister Gorton went with MTRK instead. 01/14/2007 at 1:24 am
But Jenna: Clueless says I’m supposed to believe anything Slade Gorton says. If he’s getting drunk a lot how do we know when he’s sober or not? Apparently you have more information on the topic than Clueless.
Come on you motherfucking hypocritical Democrat assholes. Tell us all why the Del Monte workers don’t deserve a minimum wage like the rest of the nation. Your leader Nancy Pelosi made sure that Del Monte, one of her sugar daddy’s gets to avoid the minimum wage law.
Where is the Liberal outrage???
You are nothing but a bunch of fucking robots who will eat any shit your Democrat politicians feed you just like good obedient Nazis.
And before you fuckers start up, I voted for those god damn Democrats and I am pissed. So calling right wing and all tha fucking shit is bullshit. If you say you are going to give everyone a minumu, wage, then by god motherfucker you had better fucking do so.
What a bunch of fucking lying hypocrites!
@68 “‘The costs for this alternative range from $410 million to $980 million, depending in part on the type of animal crossings constructed.’ What part don’t you understand.”
Well, as I understand it, the costs could range from $410 to $980 million, and “part” of that is for animal crossings (but they don’t tell us how much), and it could fluctuate from the low end to the high end depending on a number of things (such as fuel and asphalt prices at the time of construction), and that more expensive animal crossings would cost more than less expensive animal crossings. And if you’re subtracting $410M from $980M and concluding the animal crossings will cost $570M, that’s exactly the kind of fucked-up math I would expect from a simpleton like you. How’s that grab you?
71 When have you ever seen ANY construction project come in at the estimate? Cripes, you can’t even get your kitchen counters resurfaced without cost overruns. Hey wingnuts — how’s your Iraq Rebuilding coming along? Is that on time, on estimate? Your idol, W, has plenty of money to shovel into duffel bags of contractors in Iraq … too bad there’s none left for highways or wildlife here at home. You fuckers would rather throw it away in a tinpot Third World shithole than do anything that would benefit the American public here at home. Do you ever wonder why many of your fellow citizens things you pigfuckers are crazy, or worse?
think not things
@73 Why should we believe what anything YOU say? However, if by some fantastic coincidence you’re not lying through your teeth, the solution is simple: Let’s repeal the agricultural exemption from the minimum wage. Are you with me?
@73 Well, let’s fact-check the wingnut’s allegations. Yep, just as I suspected … the winger noise machine is BULLSHITTING. According to them, Speaker Pelosi used her power to get an exemption for an employer IN HER DISTRICT. But the FACT is the wingnuts are talking about a food processing plant in SAMOA, for chrissakes, to which the federal minimum wage law has NEVER applied and that Pelosi probably didn’t even know existed. (We can safely assume if they didn’t find a Del Monte plant in SAMOA, they would have gone looking for one in Honduras, or Nigeria, or Russia.) What these LIARS are trying to do is create an impression that Del Monte has a plant in CALIFORNIA where workers make less than minimum wage because Pelosi pulled strings for them, which is a FUCKING LIE. But thanks for bringing that SAMOAN situation to our attention, CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES, because now that Democrats are aware of it, they’re going to fix it:
“Del Monte Foods Democrats pledge to extend minimum wage
” … House Democrats say a just-passed minimum wage bill will be changed to cover all U.S. territories — including American Samoa — before it reaches President Bush’s
desk. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told reporters she has instructed the House Education and Labor Committee to help get the bill changed to ‘make sure that all of the territories have to comply with the U.S. law on minimum wage.’
“Her remark Friday followed accusations from Republicans a day earlier that American Samoa, which is not now covered by the $5.15 an hour federal minimum wage, was not included in the law raising the federal pay floor to $7.25 an hour
because StarKist has a large cannery in the island chain. StarKist is owned by Del Monte Foods Co., which has its headquarters in San Francisco, Pelosi’s district. …
“The bill … passed Wednesday by the House as part of the Democrats’ 100-hour agenda … included … the Northern Mariana Islands, which had been shielded in the past from the wage law with the help of former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff, now serving a prison sentence. …”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete article and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/y2xu9a
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Isn’t it shameful that you’ve been caught LYING again? Isn’t it embarrassing that a fucking rabbit spins better than you do? Hey, can any of you pigfuckers tell me which party sponsored Tom DeLay’s and Jack Abramoff’s criminal influence peddling? You know, favors-for-cash?
Roger as to your question about pumping water. I have not looked at the specifics of this project. But I remember hearing about similar proposals in the 70s.
I think the key is peak vrs. nonpeak electricity. You take power off the grid during nonpeak times then relaese it during peak times.
How that would exactly tie in to this proposal, don’t know.
What these LIARS are trying to do is create an impression that Del Monte has a plant in CALIFORNIA where workers make less than minimum wage because Pelosi pulled strings for them, which is a FUCKING LIE. But thanks for bringing that SAMOAN situation to our attention, CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES, because now that Democrats are aware of it, they’re going to fix it
Actually, they shouldn’t.
American Samoa’s minimum wageS (note the plural) are set by a seperate review board by law and have been for years because Samoa’s isolated single-market economy can’t support even the current federal minimum wage. The cost of living is much much much lower there too so it’s not like they’re getting screwed.
It’s a unique circumstance that *both* parties have recognized for years… until of course Republicans decided to attempt to score political points on the issue when they damn well knew otherwise. Which is why they lied and made it sound like a specific company was getting the exemption.