George Bush likes to think of it as the people’s house:
Well, thank you all so very much for coming to the White House. It’s my honor to welcome you to the people’s house.
But he apparently doesn’t think the people have a right to know who is visiting their house. From the AP:
The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.
The Bush administration didn’t reveal the existence of the memorandum of understanding until last fall.
[…]The five-page document dated May 17 declares that all entry and exit data on White House visitors belongs to the White House as presidential records rather than to the Secret Service as agency records. Therefore, the agreement states, the material is not subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.
[…]The memo last spring was signed by the White House and Secret Service the day after a Washington-based group asked a federal judge to impose sanctions on the Secret Service in a dispute over White House visitor logs for Abramoff.
That’s our Bush—always promoting transparency and accountability in government. Really, you don’t want to know if the logs record almost 500 past visits on behalf of someone pleading guilty to fraud and corruption…. Just try not to think about it.
The White House is now using the memo to block a Washington Post request for Secret Service logs identifying visitors to Vice President Dick Cheney’s office.
Clearly, only freedom hating, terrorist sympathizers would want to know about the comings and goings in the people’s house.
http://www.effwa.org/main/page.php?number=46
The Evergreen Freedom Foundation (the anti-teachers’ union, Scaiffe-Mellon/ Wal-Mart funded screed mongers) has a page with links to the letters-to-the-editor section of just about every newspaper in the state. This weekend I plan to write a letter to the editor criticizing the Evergreen Freedom Foundation and use the links they’ve provided to send it to all the newspapers.
Let’s see how fast we can force them to shut down that links page.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....-a-debate/
Looks like the righties are battling among themselves. Let’s see if that pervert Bill O Really has the nuts to take the debate. I bet no.
-The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.-
It’s examples like this (as well as the mail snooping story from yesterday) which are driving independents, moderate R’s, and libertarian R’s from the GOP camp.
The only ones left pitching for Bush are the hardcore 20% armageddon-obsessed Talibangelists. Bush could start sacrificing babies, and the Christian Right would keep supporting their anointed leader.
Dear Sirs:
An NEA news release concerning the out-of-state funded political pressure group ironically named, The Evergreen Freedom Foundation, States:
“A Thurston County, Washington, judge imposed sanctions on the Evergreen Freedom Foundation for its bad faith in using the judicial process for an improper purpose. The National Education Association brought the motion against EFF after the organization obtained a default judgment against NEA, despite NEA’s active participation in defense of an EFF lawsuit. The default judgment was overturned in mid-July and the lawsuit dismissed in August.”
The judge, who later dismissed the suit, went on to say:
“‘the courtroom is not a ballpark” and “a trial is not a ballgame.” He said that in 18 years on the bench, he only used such strong language two or three times.'” The judge said he was paraphrasing Justice Potter Stewart, saying he knew bad faith when he saw it.
Would you entrust your hard-won freedoms to such sleazy tricksters as the, Evergreen Freedom Foundation?
I wouldn’t!
Cordially yours,
Ernest T. Bass
http://www.nea.org/nr/nr020920.html
How clever of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation to choose a name which gives them the same initials as the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the organization founded by Larry Lessig and others to fight to keep the Internet an open commons for the exchange of information and ideas.
speaking of “freedom hating, terrorist sympathizers” le’s talk about the peHOsi:
Voted NO on federalizing rules for driver licenses to hinder terrorists. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on continuing military recruitment on college campuses. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on adopting the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. (Oct 2004)
Voted NO on permitting commercial airline pilots to carry guns. (Jul 2002)
Voted NO on deploying SDI. (Mar 1999)
Nancy Pelosi is an Embarrassment to Women
Grandma needs to go back to baking cookies and stay out of military decisions.
Grandma Nancy and Harry Reid have a letter to the president which I sincerely hope the president gives it the consideration it deserves……. by throwing it into the nearest trashcan where it belongs.
I would not have a problem with the Democrats such as Nancy and Harry, if they actually had any “ideas” to win the fight on terror, but they do not, so they should shut up because they make themselves sound like the defeatists they are.
Quotes from the letter:
“We want to do everything we can to help Iraq succeed in the future but, like many of our senior military leaders, we do not believe that adding more U.S. combat troops contributes to success. They, like us, believe there is no purely military solution in Iraq. There is only a political solution.”
“Adding more combat troops will only endanger more Americans and stretch our military to the breaking point for no strategic gain.”
“Rather than deploy additional forces to Iraq, we believe the way forward is to begin the phased redeployment of our forces in the next four to six months, while shifting the principal mission of our forces there from combat to training, logistics, force protection and counter-terror.”
In other words: Surrender Iraq to al-Qaeda and Iran…NOW!!!!!!!
That is not an idea, that is a white flag to tell al-Qaeda and Iran, we have no spine, we have no honor and we have no courage. It also lets them know that if a fight gets too hard and costs money, we are too yellow bellied to finish what we have started.
Notice the Pelosi vote on adopting the 9/11 Commission recommendations that I bolded above, she voted NO, yet in this press release here, it says:
“That’s why my colleagues and I sent a letter to Speaker Hastert the other day to say, that in honor to commemorate 9/11, we must immediately pass the 9/11 Commission recommendations. It’s urgent and the suggestions are well-founded, based on a factual assessment of risk and the prospect of their success.
Not only is she incapable of understanding the concerns and the ramifications of losing the war on terror, according to their OWN press release, they are LIARS also. If Pelosi is so concerned about adopting the 9/11 Commission recommendations, why did she vote NO in 2004 to adopting those recommendations?
Her voting record alone makes it clear she has no understanding nor concern whatsoever about the security of our country as well as showing herself to be anti-military. This is a woman that should have stayed home and baked cookies because she doesn’t have the spine to help assure us that our country will not be hit again as it was on 9/11. She learned nothing from 9/11, which is the scariest thing of all.
Anybody that votes no to every single measure that is put before them that deals with protecting America, obviously has no clue on HOW to protect America, or worse yet, doesn’t care.
Three Cheers for Corruption!!!
by Patrick Hynes @ 3:41 pm. Filed under Politics
According to CNN’s Political Ticker, the Culture of Corruption is alive and well. Congressional Democrats give “Cold Cash” William Jefferson a standing ovation:
Congressional Black Caucus gives Jefferson standing ovation
WASHINGTON (CNN) — On the same day that the 110th Democratic-led Congress convenes with a plan to immediately pass lobbyist and ethics reforms, the Congressional Black Caucus Thursday gave a standing ovation to Rep. William Jefferson, the Louisiana Democrat who faces an FBI probe into bribery allegations.
“The haters… and negative nabobs…the people who spoke against him couldn’t prevail against the people who spoke for him,” Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, master of ceremonies for the CBC’s celebratory event, said Thursday morning.
Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, led the charge to remove Jefferson from the House Ways and Means Committee last spring and has said she will not consider reinstating him to the powerful post until he is cleared of all allegations.
The FBI is currently conducting an investigation that alleges Jefferson accepted $100,000 from a telecommunications businessman — $90,000 of which was later recovered in the congressman’s freezer.
Responses to “Three Cheers for Corruption!!!”
rstrand Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Ethics for thee; not for me!
Machiavelli Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.” –Aesop
RedBeard Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Michael Eric Dyson was the M.C.? That explains much. He’s a second-rate race hustler trying to break into the top ranks along with Sharpton, Jackson and Farakhan.
tazzmax Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Good “ole” demon-rat hypocrites!
What more can we expect of them other than business as usual.
The foxes are guarding the hen house.
Machiavelli Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Jefferson’s already off to an unethical start for the new year.
http://www.citizensforethics.o.....?view=4452
motherbelt Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Can you imagine the reaction if Republicans had given Newt Gingrich a standing O after he was accused of ethics violations????
The liberal double standard goes on……
motherbelt Says:
January 5th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
The two examples are typical…Democrat accused, stands fast, party in support, standing O. Republican, accused, has some shame, resigns to limit the damage to the party. Then the Dems point and say “See? Corrupt…had to resign.”
hypocritical liberal pigfuckers all.
FOXNEWS O’REILLY 2,505,000
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 1,802,000
FNC SHEP SMITH 1,374,000
FNC HUME 1,258,000
FNC GRETA 1,194,000
CNN KING 1,014,000
CNN COOPER 835,000
CNN DOBBS 814,000
CNNHN GRACE 676,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 665,000
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 648,000
CNN ZAHN 643,000
CNNHN BECK 467,000
MSNBC MATTHEWS 424,000
Awww Pooor Moonbat!s. The Moonbat! channel(s) are still in the crapper!
good luck with that
“I’VE GOT THE POWER!”
snort!
jesus fucking christ, anti-lib. If Jefferson’s case was such a slam dunk, where is the indictment?
You’re just squealing like a whipped wingnut cur.
I guess that Baby Bush wanted those logs out of there because they’d prove that Jeff Ganon (Fake reporter and gay male escort) had visited Karl Rove more than 200 times. Wonder what THEY were talking about. No wait, Karl was just getting a rub down. Or were they smoking crack? I forget.
dear fucking moron and liberal apologist who at least acknowledges he’s a total ASS, pay attention:
Mr. Cold, Hard Cash Strikes Again
By Mary Ann Akers, Roll Call
January 4, 2007
On only the fourth day of the new year, we’ve decided that the 2007 “Some Nerve!” award goes to … Rep. William Jefferson (D-La.).
You might think that a guy who’s still the subject of a federal bribery investigation would be more careful than to use taxpayer resources to raise campaign money. But nope, not Jefferson. And heck, he still hasn’t provided us with that “honorable explanation” he promised for the bizarro (and alleged) $90,000 in cash federal agents confiscated from a freezer in his Capitol Hill home.
Last week, House Democrats were shocked to receive a letter from Jefferson — on his official Congressional stationery, no less — asking colleagues to donate money to help him retire his campaign debt.
“As you know,” the letter, dated Dec. 29, 2006, began, “I recently won a grueling race for re-election.” (And won resoundingly in a runoff, despite the ongoing federal probe in which two people have already pleaded guilty.) “In order to get our message out and otherwise compete, we incurred over $200,000 in debt.
“Therefore, I would deeply appreciate it if you would assist me in retiring my debt by contributing $1,000 (or whatever amount you can afford) to my campaign,” Jefferson wrote.
Nice letter. Too bad it violates House ethics rules. It’s a no-no to use taxpayer resources to raise campaign dough.
Some Democratic aides were downright aghast at Jefferson’s audacity at using franked envelopes, official letterhead and the House internal mail service in a blatant violation of House rules.
“We were going to send him a check in a freezer bag,” joked one chief of staff to a Democratic Member of Congress who received Jefferson’s solicitation.
Another, only slightly snarkier, Democratic House chief of staff pitched in with: “He’s got $90,000 in his freezer, why can’t he buy some stationery and stamps?” (Answer: Because the Feds took the money!) The chief of staff added, “Some people will never learn. Can’t he go away already?”
Jefferson, who has not been indicted (yet) in the bribery scandal, sent out the letter by mistake, according to his office.[snicker] His staff apparently meant to use campaign stationery, but instead used the boss’s “Congress of the United States” letterhead, which, by the way, still lists Jefferson as a member of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Remember, Jefferson’s own Democratic colleagues voted overwhelmingly to kick him off the committee last summer after the FBI claimed it had videotaped the Congressman accepting $100,000 in marked bills from an informant. And now Jefferson has the gumption to write them and ask for money?
Jefferson’s spokeswoman, Melanie Russell, told HOH that the Congressman himself was unaware of the boo-boo until she went to him with our request for comment. “It’s news to him,” she sighed.
“It was just a tremendous — tremendous — staff error,” she said. “We are contacting the appropriate committees to apologize and rectify the situation.”
We presume that will involve the cash-strapped Jefferson campaign reimbursing the House Franking Commission for the costs involved in sending the fundraising solicitation.
http://www.evilconservatives.com/
Something for the Moonbat! weekend!
It’s becoming tiresome to read wingnutz postings. It is routine for a rethuglican to post that, say, Pelosi voted against the 9/11 Commission recommendations & refer to another wingnutz website or blog. After a look at the source, it’s clear that the second GOoPer refers to 4 or 5 or 6 sources—-& they are all pussified rants by some other kewlade kidz.
So, then, it’s off to the Congressional Record & the Pelosi website. At the primary sources, then it’s clear that the House Majority ginned up a fucktard version of a bill to enact about one-third of the recommendations of the 9/11 report & that even those are misconstrued, underfunded & poorly or falsely worded. So . . . all the Democratic party types vote nay.
It’s frustrating to recognize that the people of rightwingistan don’t know civics well enough to understand how the legislative process works—-I was for it on the floor, against it in committee, for it at the conference & then against it on final roll call after the majority put in the amendments about all who oppose dear leader are traitors & the Federal minimum wage is now $0.00, etc.
Fuck you wingnut! Why do you insist on cross-posting your stupid fellow wingnutz’ insane maungerings & mewlings. Go to the sources, pinhead. Nobody gives a shit if Joe told Pete that Larry heard that Bobby said “anti-liberal” wrote that Nancy Pelosi voted against giving guns to commercial airline pilots. Now that you’ve posted your stoooooopid drivel here, it’ll be cross-posted & quoted at every one of the other rethuglican websites as proof positive Pelosi is a . . . a . . . a . . . woman.
Anti-liberal: Visit evil conservative dot c*o*m. You’ll have a great laugh!
I have a question for you moonbats:
1) Who is NOT the Commander In Chief?
2) Who is NOT the newly elected President?
hey whl… where the fuck is it in The Constitution that gives fed gummint any fucking say whatsoever on employee wages and benefits?
It’s frustrating to recognize that the people of moonbatistan don’t know civics well enough to understand how the legislative process works—
Dumshit…
@13
What’s with the misogyny? How long have you hated women?
Rep. William Jefferson is an embarrassment. His ovation by the Black Caucus had much more to do with race and race relations than politics. Speaker Pelosi risks pietism by failing to follow the example set by the 90th Congress: Speaker John McCormack refused to seat Adam Clayton Powell over similar questions of misappropriations until the Judiciary Committee was satisfied. To hell with waiting for indictments. And Rep. Powell had considerable more clout than the hapless, disrespected Rep. Jefferson. Karen Carter should have won Louisiana’s 2nd congressional district seat. (A contest that often had more to do with sexism than politics – but that’s another tale.)
It took Ronnie Earl over a year to indict Delay after indicting his aides, yet many of the lefties here were ready to convict Delay before his indictment. Seems like a double standard to me.
Hey Rabbit – Who’s paying your medical bills? Why do you think I should pick up your tab?
Oh wait… it’s because you think working is a waste of time…. never mind…
Loser…
I’m doing some research for a white paper. I need some data….
Can somebody here provide an example of a successful vaginocracy? Just tell me what country and when. I’ll take it from there.
Thanks…
Mark the Worm-
Ignoring for the moment your reflexive misogyny, Golda Meir did pretty well.
George Bush likes to think of it as the people’s house:
Well, thank you all so very much for coming to the White House. It’s my honor to welcome you to the people’s house.
But he apparently doesn’t think the people have a right to know who is visiting their house. From the AP:
The White House and the Secret Service quietly signed an agreement last spring in the midst of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal declaring that records identifying visitors to the White House are not open to the public.
Yikes. After what me in Bill did why would anyone want to visit the White house.
Looks like the righties are battling among themselves. Let’s see if that pervert Bill O Really has the nuts to take the debate. I bet no.
Liberals are so entertaining. The conservatives are just waiting for the self destruction of the dems.
Mark the developmentally disabled Kennedy @ 16:
The US Constitution has words in it called “The Commerce Clause.” It is intended for people who can read. After several more years at the Home, you may be able to sound it out & perhaps comprehend some of it. As one of the more complex concepts of law you may need some advice about this from the UW Law School, or DeVry Technical Inst., whichever you prefer. For now, just have your amanuensis speak my written comments to you.
“To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.” Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the Constitution.
On several occasions, the minimum wage concept has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Following is one of the more recent, most compelling & most affirming.
Thus: a) government is authorized to establish a minumum wage and b) the specific law(s) of FLSA that spell out the wage have been upheld as constitutional by the Supreme Court.
Therefore, your comments are just sooooooo fucking stooooooopid that it’s laughable.
More to the point, though, is that whether or not the minimum wage is raggedy-assed Bolshevism or the law of the land, when a group of rethuglicans attach some moronic revision of that law to an otherwise useful bill in the House or the Senate, it is helpful that folks like Pelosi vote against it–or Murray or Cantwell or Boxer or Feinstein or, or , or …….. vote against.
Israel a vaginocracy? Hardly…
dumshit..
Dumshit – I didn’t ask what an activist court did. I asked what the fucking constitution says.
Dumfuckingshit…
Mark the Worm- sorry I don’t play by your rules. And I’m not aware that the word “vaginocracy” exists.
Tell me was Mommy mean to you to have such an obsession?
At least you have the reflected glow of your own brilliance to light your pitiful life.
24
We wont have to wait long. hehehe
King County’s Elections Office is seeking a few hundred additional poll workers to staff polling places — particularly in Seattle, Carnation and Duvall — for the Feb. 6 special election. The county office expects to hire and train nearly 2,000 poll workers to staff 236 polling places countywide.
PS Honest,employed hard working citizens need not apply.
re 21: Catherine the Great, Queen Elizabeth the Ist, Margaret Thatcher, Queen Nefertiti.
The list is endless Mark the Vaginally Deliverd Kennedy. I am fairly confident that your first experience of the world was the interior of a woman’s reproductive tract — and you’ve been crying ever since they dragged you out.
or one might wonder if that was the first, last and only time mark saw a vagina…..
@31
Careful there. From all appearances, perhaps he was from his mother’s womb untimely ripp’d.
http://tinyurl.com/yx9lmv
Anti-liberal is so busy shitting his pants that all he can do is spew crud about cookies and other dumpage.
While in the bigger picture (unviewable to most of the remaining republican Bush-bots) this kind of crud (keeping the list of visitors secret, for example) is what drove so many folks away from the brown shirts still running the once proud G.O.P.
re 34: What has the GOP done in the past 100 years to be proud of? Please be specific.
“Pride goeth before a fall!”
Spike Lee
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....37946.html
“…I predicted that, after the Democrats captured the Congress, Pres. Bush would provoke a Constitutional crisis by refusing to comply with congressional subpoenas.”
“In a way that might make Harry F. Byrd proud, our president is about to embark on a policy of massive resistance. He will instruct his lawyers to delay, deny and refuse to comply with any effort by Congress to get to the bottom of official corruption – especially as the billions squandered or stolen in Mr. Bush’s war. He’ll try to run out the clock, then take his chances with his hand-picked right-wing judiciary. (Keep in mind the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, through which this dispute would flow, includes such Bush appointees as Brett Kavanaugh, a Ken Starr protégé whose work in the Bush White House was described by Henry Waxman as promoting “an imperial presidency.” And the Supreme Court has such presidential suck-ups as John Roberts and Sam Alito.)
Thank God the American people – and Nancy Pelosi — have given the responsibility of oversight we have constitutional heroes like Waxman and John Dingell. They are fair and tough. But even in their combined 83 years experience in Congress they have not seen a crowd that has more contempt for the Constitution than the Bush-Cheney team. I would not be surprised to learn that, in anticipation of receiving congressional subpoenas, the Bushies were having shredding parties that would make Ollie North and Fawn Hall blush. “
Paul Begala
re 34: What has the GOP done in the past 100 years to be proud of? Please be specific.
“Pride goeth before a fall!”
Spike Lee
Yeah, besides the fall of communism,Sadam and the disaster of Carter what have they done?
@35
One specific example:
Outdoor Pastimes of an American Hunter 1905.
My prediction: Legal battles for Bush, America is bombed, Bush is a hero and the dems go down in defeat. Simple.
Mark the fearful castrati @ 21, some baaaaad bitches of the world…………………
Elizabeth Tudor–Regina, 1558-1603: England & Ireland
(Alexandrina) Victoria of Hanover–Regina, 1837-1901: United Kingdom, Ireland & India
Margrethe Alexandrine Þórhildur Ingrid (Margrethe II)–Queen regnat & Head of State: 1972-present: Danmark
Golda Meir–Prime Minister, 1969-74: Israel
Indira Ghandi–Prime Minister, 1966-77 & 1980-84: India.
Margaret Thatcher–Prime Minister, 1979-90: United Kingdom
Tarja Kaarina Halonen–President, 2000-present: Finland (Suomi)
Gro Harlem Brundtland–Prime Minister, 1981 & 1986-89 & 1990-96: Norway
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/688
Danny Schechter: Marching on Memphis: Revitalizing the Media Movement
“Our time is now. The media system is crumbling in front of us and not for just the lack of a “revenue model.” The public is sick of its dishonesty, cynical commercialization and obvious defense of the status quo. Can we do better? You bet! We already are, on the web, with so many vital indie media projects, radio shows, films, books and blogs. “
re 37: Republicans had nothing to do with any of these things. The only thing they can take credit for is the capture and execution of Osama bin Laden.
OK — Bad example…
“Yeah, besides the fall of communism,Sadam and the disaster of Carter what have they done?”
And Carter wasn’t a disaster. If we’d kept on with his lead in alternative energy who knows where we’d be today. You can thank that douchebag Reagan for torching that initiative.
You make me sick!
re 39: DNC says:
“… Simple. ” It has to be — for you to get a grip on it.
01/05/2007 at 9:53 pm
and for keeping the hostages longer than need be . . .
What a guy!
Hey Mark @ 27, whoever is reading these posts aloud to you fucked up & left out my quotation of the Commerce Clause from the US Constitution. But as I implied, it doesn’t much matter since you wouldn’t understand it anyway.
Majority by: Blackmun–Joined by: Brennan, White, Marshall, Stevens
Dissent by: Powell–Joined by: Burger, Rehnquist, O’Connor
One of the funny things about our Constitutional “gummint”, as you call it, is that it doesn’t matter whether some mentally defective citizen in a King County group home thinks that the Supreme Court is activist or inactive, it’s still the law of the land. And the Commerce Clause really does say what it means.
Now, if you will send me your real name & address, I’ll try to force your guardian ad litem to hire a much more qualified keeper to read this stuff to you—-someone who will not leave out some of the words or sentences or paragraphs just to support his or her own ignorant opinion of the way things really function.
Carter was elected because of Nixon, not because of what he stood for. Clinton got in because of Perot. No dems get into the White house because of their ideology. Same with this congress. The Iragi war was going bad and boom… dems.
DNC (doesnotcompute?) @ 46
What is your excuse for Kennedy beating Nixon?
What is your excuse for Clinton’s re-election?
How about Truman beating Dewey?
You opened your big, unknowing mouth so answer the questions?
Your logic is flawed, particularly in the Perot assertion. But otherwise it looks to me that every time a WingFuckNut fucks up, a Democrat is charged with fixing it.
This is why the White House is a Democrat sure thing in ’08.
What a fucking moe-ron.
DNC:
The Iraqi war is going bad. That is why you lost the election. Your ideology was flawed, you got replaced.
Funny how that works.
Cripes, what’s next? They could be inviting Osama bin Laden to a secret fundraiser for top donors, for all we know. People with secrets usually have something to hide.
I’ll Bet This Guy Is A Republican Dep’t.
In today’s episode of “I’ll Bet This Guy Is A Republican,” a city official in Sarasota County, FL — which is mostly white, affluent, and votes Republican — manages to break laws, destroy public property, damage the environment, and be stupid in one fell swoop:
“Official caught off-roading in preserve
“By PAUL QUINLAN
“paul.quinlan@heraldtribune.com
“VENICE — … Chris Sharek, the director of Venice’s utilities department, whose job is to ensure that the city obeys environmental regulations … [was sentenced to] 25 hours of community service and probation last month for off-roading through a protected wilderness preserve with his wife and father-in-law.
“When their vehicles got stuck in the mud at Myakka River State Park, Sharek phoned for help. Friends arrived and dismantled a fence so they could drive in to free them. Their cars, in turn, got stuck. Another round of calls went out. Another round of cars were trapped.
“Deputies arrived about 11:30 p.m., including Florida Fish and Wildlife officer Louis Hines IV. ‘After talking with the deputies, I was able to get a picture of what was going on,'” Hines wrote in his report. ‘By the time it was all said and done, there were two Jeeps, two Fords, one Hummer and one tractor in an area closed to vehicles.’
“Sharek and the others had driven past several ‘No Trespassing’ signs and others that labeled the area a protected wilderness preserve open to foot traffic only, the report said.
“Police charged Sharek, 34, and five others with three misdemeanors: damaging public land with a motor vehicle, driving off road in a parks and recreation area and illegally entering a state park. …
“… [D]id Sharek know he was breaking the law?
“‘I suppose,'” he said.”
http://tinyurl.com/ybb25m
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Do you ever get the feeling that people like this are (a) arrogant, (b) insensitive, (c) self-centered, and (d) contemptuous of rules, laws, and other people’s rights?
@1 Speaking of Wal-Mart, in case you missed it, the Fish Wrapper reported yesterday in a front-page story that a judge has blocked the opening of a new Wal-Mart store in Chelan. The building is up and employees have been hired — but that didn’t stop the judge from ruling the building permit is invalid. Opponents want the 162,000-square foot structure torn down.
“The legal dispute revolves around whether the city’s zoning for the 18-acre lot intended to limit construction to 50,000 square feet per acre, as Wal-Mart contends, or 50,000 for the entire project, as the opponents maintain. ‘This was a bait-and-switch on the part of the city and Wal-Mart,’ said Kathy George, … who represents the opponents. ‘The city told the public this was going to be a nice business park …. Years later, we get a 162,000-square-foot store.'”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/y24j2o
Roger Rabbit Commentary: The real issue, of course, is a big-box store coming into a small town and destroying long-established family businesses. The article goes on to say the lawsuit is being funded in part by affluent Seattleites who purchased second homes in Chelan, apparently not expecting the small-shop ambience that attracted them would be replaced by a Wal-Mart — yet another case of Seattle money rescuing a community of limited resources in a “red” part of the state.
The article goes on to say Wal-Mart was caught by surprise: “‘We’ve never had anything like this happen before,’ said Jennifer Holder, a Wal-Mart public-affairs manager based in Seattle.” Apparently the mega-corporation is accustomed to getting its way when steamrolling small-town folks. Maybe it’s about to get its arrogance shoved up its ass in a precedent-setting case that could be a harbinger of things to come elsewhere, right here in Washington state.
While browsing my used copy of The Fish Wrapper (retrieved from a Green Lake Park trash can; I don’t actually give my MONEY to Frank Blethen), I noticed a human-interest story about a California guy who gave up his attempt to sail around the world after getting dismasted off Cape Horn: http://tinyurl.com/y679tx
Although I don’t have a sailboat, I follow water sports a little bit; after all, one of my distant cousins is a famous water skier: http://tinyurl.com/yd62zc
All I can say is, this guy has nothing — absolutely NOTHING — on Webb Chiles. Unlike Chiles or most Democrats, this guy is a quitter. He got dismasted in rough seas and hurricane-force winds off Cape Horn — so fucking what? That’s de rigeur for round-the-world sailors. If you let minor obstacles like that stop you, you’ll never get anywhere.
Chiles is, frankly, a lunatic but in a constructive way. Quite a year years ago, when he was much younger than he is now (yeah, he’s STILL alive), Chiles set out from San Diego in an off-the-shelf fiberglass boat. The kind people buy for leisurely weekend puttering about in the San Juans or off Catalina Island. About 2,000 miles out from San Diego, the keel worked loose and cracked the hull below the water line. Chiles had to bail with a bucket for 18 hours a day to keep from sinking. So he turned around and limped back to San Diego, right? FUCK NO!!!! He kept right on going for another 22,000 miles, all the way around the planet, via the wild Southern Ocean through the roughest seas on earth, thousands of miles away from shipping lanes where there is no possibility of rescue. And got away with it.
It’s fair to say that Chiles was (and is, as he’s still extant) a guy with guts and determination. And that’s what we liberals have to have. Nov. 7 was a huge victory for us, but it’s only the beginning. While I feel confident that we will make further House and Senate gains in 2008, winning the presidency in ’08 is not assured. It will take time, and many more local and state level victories, to dismantle the Republican vote-fraud machine controlled by the likes of Ken Blackwell, Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, and the GOP boiler room drones who run secret operations to disenfranchise black soldiers deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. (For details, see http://tinyurl.com/jv9nf). It may take a while, and we may not be able to defeat the Wingnut Nightmare in one or two elections. BUT WE WILL PREVAIL. If you’re ever feeling down or discouraged, just remember Webb Chiles bailing all day, every day, with his bucket in the Southern Ocean and tell yourself, “I don’t have what he’s got, but I’ve got 1.5% of what he’s got, and that’s enough to defeat the Republicans.” Trust me, it will be. The GOP is not the Southern Ocean or Cape Horn; we can kick these rats back into the sewers they crawled out of with a lot less effort than it takes to circumnavigate the world in a small sailboat — because, when you get right down to it, they’re lazy and stupid, and it doesn’t take as much as you think to beat them.
In closing, my cousin Twiggy says if you wanna see a HOT water-ski tow, click here: http://tinyurl.com/usflm
See? I can politicize any-fucking-thing just as good as the GOPers can. I used to be one, and I learned how to do it from them. Hell, I can even politicize peeling carrots.
Note: Peeling carrots is something only ignorant white bread-eating Republicans do! Erudite liberal rabbits like myself wash the carrot (to get the earthworm shit off) and eat it skin and all, because a lot of the nutrients and vitamins are in the skin. Same deal with potatoes. Look what happens when our country is run by people who eat peeled carrots and potatoes, and bread made of bleached flour! Vitamin deficiency totally fucked up their brains — even before they began popping oxycontin (http://tinyurl.com/aj22d)
and Placidyl (http://tinyurl.com/bomnm). Cocaine will do a number on your brain cells too; just look at W for an example.
@4 I believe Justice Stewart made his famous “I know it when I see it” remark in the context of pornography, which is the essentially the same thing when you’re talking about the partisan spew from the effin’ wingnut asswipes @ EFF. Lucky for the NEA they got Judge Berschauer, though, and not the Oklahoma-bible-college judge.
@6 “Voted NO on federalizing rules for driver licenses to hinder terrorists. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on continuing military recruitment on college campuses. (Feb 2005)
Voted NO on adopting the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. (Oct 2004)
Voted NO on permitting commercial airline pilots to carry guns. (Jul 2002)
Voted NO on deploying SDI. (Mar 1999)”
1. Some of us think letting Bush’s political appointees meddle in driver licensing might be a bad idea. How would you like to be confused with Osama bin Laden the next time a traffic cop pulls you over? http://tinyurl.com/y7wunb
2. Why should colleges be forced to let military recruiters on their campuses? Maybe their students don’t want to be badgered by recruiters. Most collegians are smart enough to find a recruiting office in the phone book if they’re seeking fun, travel, and adventure.* (* Euphemism for getting your balls blown off in Baghdad by an IED.)
3. Republicans controlled Congress until yesterday, so why haven’t the 9/11 commission recommendations been adopted? Whoooo obstructed these recommendations? (That’s a separate question from “who obstructed the commission,” prompting the commission’s co-chairs to write a book calling for an independent investigation of administration stonewalling, obstructionism, and withholding evidence.)
4. If I were flying, I’d rather be protected by a professional cop (i.e., sky marshal) than an amateur cop in the cockpit with 1 hour of training for every 1,000 hours of training a terrorist has. I would rather have the pilot flying the plane than participating in a shoot-out back in the cabin. But the Republicans in Congress were too cheap to provide money for sky marshals because they wanted to give more tax breaks to billionaires.
5. SDI doesn’t work. Everybody — including our enemies — knows that. In any case, even rogue states like North Korea have territory and populations at risk, and the answer to the threat posed by these countries is simple and has been proven to work: If you nuke us, we’ll nuke you. The real problem is the potential of terrorists getting hold of a nuclear. And how are terrorists most likely to deliver a nuke to a U.S. target?
[ ] 1. ICBM
[ ] 2. Cargo container
Democrats want 100% inspection of cargo containers. For years, the Republican White House and Congress refused to provide any additional funding for cargo inspection above the current 1% inspection rate. The voters gave their answer to that (and other GOP bullshit) on Nov. 7. LOOOOOSER!!!!
@7 I like our crooks better than your crooks.
@8 So you’re against raising the $5.15 minimum wage, reigning in “earmark” pork spending, or restricting congressmen from flying around on corporate jets? Fuck you.
@9 God, I hope so! Can you explain how you wingnuts spend $120 billion a year on a war, without paying taxes for it? I’ll tell you how: With an Inflation Tax. That’s right, financing wars, tax cuts, and pork with deficits debases the currency — which reduces the value of pensions, savings, and wages. It comes out of the pockets of people least able to afford it — retirees and minimum wage workers. Typical Republican program — take from the poor so the rich don’t have to pay their fair share for the wars they start.
@9 (continued) Grease up your ass and bend over, wingnut! The Democrats are in charge now.
@10 I would be lovely to see real ethics reform in Congress. I’m not holding my breath. Corporate interests own both parties, and Democrats suck on the corporate teat, too. They have to, and will continue to have to, until we enact public financing of campaigns. But no matter what the Democrats do, they can’t possibly do worse, or even come close, to the Republicans when it comes to corruption, influence peddling, and unethical behavior. The GOP has sold us down the river to corporate interests lock, stock, and barrel. I like our crooks better than your crooks because they’re not as greedy and don’t cost us as much.
should read “It would be lovely”
@13 Gee whiz, Jefferson got RE-ELECTED by the voters! You just can’t get over that, can you? And he’s raising money to retire his campaign debt. BFD — what congressman doesn’t? Is there a point in here somewhere?
@14 I ask again — until yesterday the GOP controlled Congress and could (and did) enact anything they wanted to, so WHY didn’t they enact the 9/11 commission recommendations? And WHO is responsible for that?
@15 That might explain why Pelosi is concentrating on minimum wage, reigning in earmarks, and ethics reform instead of military strategy (see link to idiotic editorial cartoon by idiotic poster @8).
@16 try the Commerce Clause
@16 (continued) We have a $5.15 minimum wage that Republicans have refused to adjust for inflation for over a decade. No one can live on $5.15 per hour, but most minimum wage workers aren’t living under bridges or starving, either. What is happening is about half of their subsistence comes from taxpayer-supported government welfare programs like food stamps, public housing, and Medicaid.
Mark the Bad-Debt Welsher shows his CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVE colors by criticizing Democratic plans to raise the minimum wage. He wants taxpayers to subsidize half the labor costs of employers who pay low wages. Many of these owners of fast-food franchises and retail chains are very rich. But they’re not rich enough to suit Redneck, who thinks we should pay taxes to support their workers so they can buy bigger yachts and more private jets (which are tax-deductible as “business expenses,” of course).
“When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just ‘dime-store economics’ – intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words. ‘Cheap labor’. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell … cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. … The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work …. If you are a wealthy elite – or a ‘wannabe’ like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool forced to work cheap.” http://tinyurl.com/lnzs3
Of course, it’s useless to cite the innumerable studies that show raising the minimum wage doesn’t destroy jobs, because cheap labor conservatives are in denial and will simply ignore this information.
When you raise the minimum wage, low-paying employers don’t go out of business, or even lay off workers. They simply raise prices, and many of their customers don’t mind paying a little more if they know it’s going to the workers.
But Redneck is a bush league cheap-labor conservative. A really creative cheap-labor conservative like Road Kill McGavick not only opposes raising the minimum wage, but tries to lower it. One creative way to do this is to let employers deduct tips from the legal minimum wage. McGavick thinks it’s fine for restaurant owners to pay waitresses $2.13 an hour, so long as they’re making enough tips to bring it up to $5.15 an hour (which he opposed icnreasing). That’s easy for Road Kill McGavick to say; he gets $14 million a month for part-time “consulting work.”
The minimum wage debate has exposed the mean-spirited and cruel contempt that conservatives have for working people. I’ve known about this attitude all my life from the time I started working. It’s one of the reasons I don’t work anymore, now that I’m financially independent and don’t have to. Why should I? For all the lip service paid to “the virtues of hard work,” our society spits on workers. Wages are taxed more heavily than any other form of income. Our employment laws give employers license to inflict any abuse on workers short of coerced sex. Companies “reward” workers for a lifetime of loyalty and hard work by outsourcing their jobs, going through phony bankruptcy proceedings to welsh on their pension promises, dropping health benefits, and lying about their work performance to avoid judgments for arbitrary firings. What incentive is there to work? Our system punishes people for working, so I choose to not work. Fuck employers, they can do the work themselves. Or I’ll do it for them as a “consultant” under a no-bid contract for my usual fee of $200 an hour. I need a certified check upfront before I start work. You can contact me at 1-800-CON-SULT.
@17 “@13 What’s with the misogyny? How long have you hated women?”
Ever since the child support enforcers got after him.
@18 Oh, I think Jefferson probably is guilty of something, presumption of innocence notwithstanding. It just seems little unusual to me to keep tens of thousands of dollars in cash in a refrigerator instead of a bank. But where is your criticism of corrupt Republicans? I don’t recall reading it, here or anywhere else. Seems to me your whining about a “double standard” is more than a little hypocritical.
In fact, when Jefferson was accused, Democrats stripped him of his committee assignments based on mere allegations. And there is no evidence that Democrats are obstructing investigation or prosecution of Jefferson. Republicans, by contrast, lied and covered up to protect their corrupt members.
Let’s bottom-line this, Anti-Liberal. The voters gave their answer to Republican corruption on Nov. 7 by delivering both houses of Congress to Democrats. That was payback for GOP arrogance. If Democrats fail to do better, then let the chips fall where they will. And they undoubtedly will. But right now blatherings from the Wingnut Noise Machine about “Democratic corruption” sounds, shall we say, tinny.
@19 “Hey Rabbit – Who’s paying your medical bills?”
I am.
“Why do you think I should pick up your tab?”
Because you’re a lying, welshing, fascist prick.
@20 Give me one good reason why I should make my living by working instead of investing as long as our system sucks up to people who live off others’ labor and punishes workers?
Keep driving that Hummer, Redneck. Oil prices are a little weak right now, and I’d like you to get my oil stocks pumped back up. Thanks for your business.
@21 I’ll look into it. Maybe there’s a tribe in the Amazon that kills and eats males after cutting off their balls with a dull knife. If so, I’ll donate to a fund to send you there.
@24 “Dan Rather says: Liberals are so entertaining. The conservatives are just waiting for the self destruction of the dems. 01/05/2007 at 8:03 pm
To be sporting about this, take a deep breath and hold it until Democrats self-destruct or you die, whichever occurs first!
@27 The Constitution says whatever the Supreme Court wants it to say. Even your activist conservative justices admit it. How else could Bush’s warrantless eavesdropping and mail-opening be anything other than impeachable offenses?
@28 Mark didn’t have a mother. He was raised in a cave by wolves.
@29 Betcha longer than you can hold your breath. But why not take me on? Take a deep breath and hooooold it …
@30 Just like a wingnut to slam pollworkers. These people get up at 4:30 AM, go through training, learn complex procedures, work a 16-day hour — and put up with retards like you who don’t know an oval from a hole in the ground. All for $1.07 an hour more than minimum wage.
You don’t deserve to have a polling place to go to. I hope your neighbors refuse to perform this duty so you have to drive an extra 5 miles to find a polling place. Fuck you.
@32 He claims to have a kid, so apparently he got laid at least once, but his dead crack-whore wife may have had enough of him after the first time.
@36 The worse, the better. Maybe we can get impeachment back on the table. It’s getting to the point where the mule in the White House is even turning off some Republicans.
@37 Are you saying the fall of communism was exclusively a Republican show?
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
You are laughable. Truth is, Truman (a Democrat) drew the original line in the sand; it was GOP presidents Eisenhower and Nixon who bailed out of Korea and Vietnam; and Gorbachev and the pope had more to do with the collapse of communism than Reagan did. Truth is, communism collapsed because of its self-contradictions and internal weaknesses, not because the U.S. government took it down. Republicans fought no great, decisive war against communism. The only leaders who did — Hitler and Chiang Kai-Shek — both lost. Communism collapsed because it was rejected by the peoples it ruled; because its economic system didn’t work; and because of its brutality. It would have collapsed without Reagan, but it would not have collapsed without Gorbachev (or someone like him), or Solidarity, or the resistance of the subject peoples. What did Republicans ever do when communism’s victims revolted — and were rolled over by tanks? They sat and watched.
@38 And which party is letting our national parks rot, and is allowing the despoliation of our public lands for private profit?
@39 Are you Mark Griswold? The traitor and erstwhile GOP candidate who hopes for a terrorist attack so the GOP will get more votes? (He got 15% in his race against Frank Chopp.)
“Congratulations Speaker Pelosi, now let the bombs fall where they may. My prediction: terror attack on domestic soil passenger aircraft within the next six months. Casualties in the 2-300 range. And, unfortunately, maybe that’s just what we need. It’s obvious people don’t remember what happened 5 years ago. Posted by FullContactPolitics at November 8, 2006 10:52 AM
http://blog.usefulwork.com/cgi.....ry_id=7430
(Note: Richard Pope ID’d “FullContactPolitics” as Mark Griswold by linking to a post on Sucky Politics in which FCP identified himself as Griswold.)
@39 Regardless of who you are, the sentiments you express in your post @39 are beneath contempt. You are a scumbag.
I would say good bet that “DNC” is Griswold coming over here to post on HA. The post @39 is almost identical to Griswold’s treasonous post on Sucky Politics.
@40 Let’s not overlook Elizabeth Bathory, the perfect mistress for Mark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.....C3%A1thory
37, 40 – Our brother in liberalism, rhp6033, decisively debunked wingnut Carter-bashing several months ago, here reproduced in full (I hope you don’t mind, rhp):
“I also believe that Jimmy Carter gets an undeserved bad rap for his Presidency. As for the military aspect:
“The military in the latter half of the 1970’s was undergoing a major reorganization. It was converting from a draft-fed force to an all-volunteer one, requiring changes in bases and amenities throughout the system.
“AIR FORCE: In the Air Force, we were deploying new F-14s, F-15s, and F-16s and retiring Phantom jets, even while the F-18’s were in early development. The cruise missle program was moving out of early research and entering the development phase. A lot of money had been spent on the B1 bomber, intended as a strategic nuclear bomber to replace the venerable B-52s, but even while the first prototypes were being tested, stealth technology had made them obsolete, and billions of dollars had to be thrown into the B-2 stealth program, a classified budget item which wasn’t apparant to all but a few in the government.
“NAVY: The Navy was modernizing its forces with the AEGIS class cruisers, and a complete re-working of its anti-aircraft and anti-missle defense systems. New submarines were also being deployed, but I forget the names of the programs right now (they were not the “boomers”, but the other kind).
“ARMY: Here, also, there was a technological advances which required large amounts of money for research and development. The new attack helicopters, Bradely Fighting Vehicles, and M-1 Tanks were all researched and underwent early development during the Carter administration. The M-1 tank was particularly expensive, as the early versions used the British Cobham (sp?) armor, but then changed to a different system.
“MARINES: As usual, they got the leftovers that the Army and Navy no longer wanted. There are some exceptions. The Marines insisted upon development of new amphibious landing vehicles, including hovercraft, and assault ships which facilitad loading of the vehicles (i.e., no longer using cargo nets to load Higgins-type landing craft with men and equipment). Also, ever since Guadalcanal the Marines have never really trusted the Navy to stick around long enough to supply continued air support, so they insisted on purchasing the British Harrier Jump-Jet, despite the strong objections of the Air Force and the Navy.
“Now, most of the up-front money for these programs were spent in the mid to late 1970’s, but with the exception of the Air Force fighters, you didn’t really get to see the results of these programs until the 1980’s. But somehow they had to be paid for, despite many of the programs being in the ‘black’ part of the budget which was not viewable by the critics. And as the 1980 election neared, there was tremendous pressure to cut the budget. California’s Proposition 13 showed that there was an anti-tax movement which the Republicans promptly hijacked as their cause-for-being. So Carter was under considerable pressure to cut the federal budget while funding programs no one could see. ‘After all’, his critics said, ‘don’t we deserve a ‘peace dividend’ now that we are no longer fighting the Vietnam War?’
“So Carter ordered the lights dimmed. His budget director, Casper Weinberger (remember him?) earned the nickname ‘Cap the Knife’, for his parsimonious pinching of the pennies until Lincoln yelped. Visitors to White House breakfasts were even charged for their meal. Some military programs had to be abandoned – including the tactical nuclear weapons which killed by radiation bud didn’t destroy buildings (I forget the name right now), and the now-obsolete-befre-being-built B-1 Bomber. But Carter paid a heavy political price for cancelling those programs, as the very Republicans who criticised him for being “weak on defense” also criticized him for running budget deficits, even though most of the deficits went to interest payments on debts incurred by several presidents before him.
So Carter paid the price, economically and politically, for reforming the military, and lost the 1980 election. Reagan got the credit when the reformed military took to the field, with its new weapons systems, and more money was available to increase troop pay.
“And the Republican insistence on a balanced budget was quickly forgotten in the light of massive budget deficits which followed the Republican tax breaks. This took Budget Director David Stockman by surprise (he believed the Republian rhetoric, but found out it was for political consumption only). It also left massive structural deficits which had to be adjusted a few years later by Reagon (yes, a Reagan tax increase), and then again during the Clinton years (which resulted in a balanced budget by the end of the Clinton Presidency, and projected surpluses thereafter). Commentby rhp6033— 8/18/06@ 8:21 am”
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Of course, the wingnut liars will never give Carter credit for updating our military — they try to steal that credit for Reagan. They criticize Carter for the Iranian hostage crisis, but Carter did try to rescue the hostages. It took a long time to put the rescue effort together, and the effort failed, because he had to do it with the military he inherited from Nixon and Ford. What did Reagan do? He secretly paid ransom for the hostages by giving weapons to an enemy nation, and covered it up. And wingnuts worship THAT guy? And needless to say, wingnuts will never acknowledge what Clinton did to upgrade our military, or admit that Bush is fighting his wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with a military that is far more technologically advanced than his father had in Kuwait — thanks to Clinton. And what has Bush43 done to improve the military? He has exhausted its forces and driven away potential recruits, but what new weapons systems have been ordered or deployed on his watch? None that I can think of. The notion that Republicans are superior to Democrats on defense is another wingnut myth from the Republican Lie Machine.
@46 “DNC says: Carter was elected because of Nixon, not because of what he stood for. Clinton got in because of Perot. No dems get into the White house because of their ideology. Same with this congress. The Iragi war was going bad and boom… dems. 01/05/2007 at 10:23 pm”
Well okay, maybe you can plausibly argue that Nixon was so bad he assured the victory of a Democrat — any Democrat — in the next election; but your claim that “Clinton got in because of Perot” is a falsehood.
I debunked this lie yesterday in a previous thread, but since it’s being reasserted here, I’ll repost part of my previous comment:
“Omigod! Clinton ‘might well have lost the race had it not been for Ross Perot!’ It’s recited like scripture on kooky-con radio. … Readers, where does spin come from? ‘Clinton won because of Perot’ provides a good case study.
“Let’s start with some actual data. If Perot hadn’t been in the 92 race, would Bush the elder have beaten Clinton? The exit polling was abundantly clear, and it was widely reported. On November 8, 1992 — five days after the election — E. J. Dionne penned a first report in the Post. Headline: ‘Perot Seen Not Affecting Vote Outcome’:
‘DIONNE (11/8/92): Ross Perot’s presence on the 1992 presidential ballot did not change the outcome of the election, according to an analysis of the second choices of Perot supporters.
‘The analysis, based on exit polls conducted by Voter Research & Surveys (VRS) for the major news organizations, indicated that in Perot’s absence, only Ohio would have have shifted from the Clinton column to the Bush column. This would still have left Clinton with a healthy 349-to-189 majority in the electoral college.
‘And even in Ohio, the hypothetical Bush “margin” without Perot in the race was so small that given the normal margin of error in polls, the state still might have stuck with Clinton absent the Texas billionaire.’
“The VRS polled more than 15,000 voters. On November 12, Dionne provided more details about Perot voters:
‘DIONNE (11/12/92): In House races, Perot voters split down the middle: 51 percent said they backed Republicans, 49 percent backed Democrats. In the presidential contest, 38 percent of Perot supporters said they would have supported Clinton if Perot had not been on the ballot and 37 percent said they would have supported Bush.
‘An additional 6 percent of Perot voters said they would have sought another third-party candidate, while 14 percent said they would not have voted if Perot had not run.’
“We all know exit polls are imperfect. But these are the actual available data about the preferences of Perot voters. Nor was this exit poll kept secret. One day after the election, the AP sent the news far and wide. (Headline: ‘Perot’s Voters Would Have Split In a Two-Way Race’):
‘ASSOCIATED PRESS (11/4/92): Exit polls suggest Ross Perot hurt George Bush and Bill Clinton about equally.
‘The Voter Research and Surveys poll, a joint project of the four major television networks, found 38 percent of Perot voters would have voted for Clinton and 37 percent would have voted for Bush if Perot had not been on the ballot. Fifteen percent said they would not have voted, and 6 percent listed other candidates.’
“The data were widely reported — except in the Washington Times, of course. Which brings us to the heart of our question — the question we’ve asked for seven years.
“Where does spin come from? In today’s world, spin often comes from kooky-con hacks — and ends up getting recited by liberals. No, the Washington Times never forced its readers to see the data about Perot voters. But soon, the paper was printing letters from kooky-con fabulists — this bit of invention, for example:
‘LETTER, WASHINGTON TIMES (11/14/92): … Judging from exit polls and from observing (as best one could) the ethnic and generational makeup of Perot supporters as they appeared on televison, a reasonable conclusion would be that Mr. Perot drew more from Mr. Bush than from Mr. Clinton, by a ratio of at least 6-to-4 (though the would-have-been-Bushers in the Perot column could have been a good deal higher).
But for the purpose of discussion, let’s use the 6-4 ratio and divide up the Perot vote and apply it state by state to Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton.
‘Thus, we see that Mr. Perot cost Mr. Bush the following states: Ohio, Wisconsin, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Nevada, Montana, Kentucky, Georgia and Colorado with a total of 87 electoral votes. Mr. Clinton still wins in the Electoral College, but his margin there shrinks to 283 to 255.
‘In terms of popular vote, Mr. Clinton ends up with roughly 51.4 million to 49.7 million for Mr. Bush, a much tighter contest than was shown in the results with Mr. Perot included. And if my 6-4 breakdown was overly generous to Mr. Clinton—as I suspect it is—we would have come very close to a dead heat or a Bush victory.
JRB
Arlington’
“The writer was drawing a ‘reasonable conclusion’ based on his observations of ‘the ethnic and generational makeup of Perot supporters as they appeared on televison!’ Yep! Based upon careful TV viewing (and a bit of wishful thinking), the writer decided that, absent Perot, we might have seen a flat-out Bush win. The exit polling said that Perot could have affected only one state — Ohio. But the writer ‘suspected’ a 6-4 ratio would be quite good to use. Soon, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Georgia and Colorado were falling to Pappy Bush too.
“Even with all this confabulation, JRB only said it would have been a close race absent Perot. Clinton might have won anyway, he conceded. Soon, though, other such analysts abandoned such scruples. For years, it has been conventional wisdom on kooky-con radio that Ross Perot cost George Bush the election. …
“Where does spin come from? This matter provides a good case study. To the extent that we have actual data, there is no indication — none whatever — that Clinton would have lost to Bush if Perot hadn’t been in the race. But so what? Within weeks, kooky-cons began to conjure, and their pleasing stories quickly spread … this episode shows us several things about our modern World of Spin. First, kooky-con fabulists never tire of inventing pleasing stories — pleasing claims which spread quite widely, recited by kooky-cons everywhere. And second: For reasons completely unknown to us, many of our fiery young liberals still aren’t ‘hip’ to this part of our culture … and soon, they’re reciting kooky-con tales themselves. …
“JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS: Applying his 6-4 voter breakdown — a ratio excessively generous to Clinton — JRB conjured the popular vote had Perot not been in the race (see above). In his first review of the polling, Dionne tried to do the same thing:
‘DIONNE (11/8/92): In the nationwide popular vote, Clinton’s margin over Bush would have been about the same without Perot in the contest. In the actual vote, Clinton won 43.7 million popular votes to 38.2 million for Bush and 19.2 million for Perot.
‘According to the VRS estimate, without Perot in the race, Clinton would have won 51.4 million to 45.6 million for Bush. Total turnout would have been smaller, because many Perot supporters said they would not have voted if the independent had not run.’ … ”
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh062905.shtml
Debunking kooky-con bullshit is hard work and takes a lot of time, and it’s now past 5:15 AM, so I’ve had enough for tonight.
I’ll see you lying wingnut traitors again later! Keep the spew coming so I can keep exposing you as the charlatans you are! Meanwhile, go fuck yourselves and pet your armadilloes.
whew………Sure glad those conclusion were based on “exit poll” data. Now we all know how reliable that data is….
I mean Al Gore WON……oh wait…But never mind that…John Kerry WON!!!, uh, oops… darn exit poll data!
Perot was factor. Strongest third party candidate to run in recent history. I’m not saying he cost Bush41 the election, I think Clinton was a better speaker and got lots of kid glove treatment from the media….”i didn’t inhale”…
But I think it is a possibility….
Wow Furball: You need to read this.
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh062905.shtml
Mike Webb SUCKS says: I really do…
re 87: We’re talking NOW. Perot is not a factor. So, what you are saying is that Perot was more attrctive to many conservatives than the Rethugs.
Anti-liberal: http://www.robsmithjr.com/
You’ll enjoy a good laugh!
89 You Wrote: “Puddybud is a house nigger. But he knows enough not to leave the house at night.” -Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:00 am
“There were those who worked in the fields and those who worked in the house. Those who worked in the house protected their positions and felt above those who worked in the fields. But at the end of the day, they were all property. This is a truth the house niggers sought to deny. But it is a truism that Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice understand every day of their lives.” -Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:22 am
So I assume that GWB has his “house @#%%*&^” working in the “People’s House” Loocie?
So Loocie, since Goldie’s filter has my last comment:
By your standards of race baiting Condi and Colin are working in the “People’s House” as house N^@@ers?
-Comment by headless lucy 9/14/05 @ 11:58 pm
-Comment by headless lucy 9/15/05 @ 10:56 pm
-Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:00 am
-Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:22 am
So Goldie you banning me again?
Loocie:
-Comment by headless lucy 9/14/05 @ 11:58 pm
-Comment by headless lucy 9/15/05 @ 10:56 pm
-Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:00 am
-Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:22 am
Says it all about you
Oh Goldie why are you blocking me posting comments writte by HeadMess Loocie September 14 & 15 2005?
Loocie: Goldie feels my retorts are too strong for your little tiny mind. His filter won’t pass your vitrolic hate dates. Yesterday he banned me all evening.
Let me try: Sept 14 2005 Sept 15 2005. Two Loocie dates never forgotten!
I’ve started posting your rantings on my own blog. Your PITHY, SHARP AS A RAZOR COMMENTSare much too convoluted and arcane for a headless person like myself to follow. I’m just archiving local WINGNUT COMMENTARY SO i CAN THROW IT BACK IN YOUR FACE AT SOME FUTURE DATE.
A great new blog might be: WINGNUTLYPSE NOW!
Whaddaya think, wingnut?
Puddy/Mike Webb…
Perhaps if you used a real email address Akismet wouldn’t conclude your comments are spam?
re 99: Your links don’t work, Mr. Sensitive.
re 96: This is a reworking of an Eddie Murphy joke. In fact, it’s almost word-for-word. I have enjoyed your pretend abhorrence of the statement for a long time.
Are you going to bring up the canard about, “black people can say what white people can’t say, blahty blah blah blah.”
You know: Everyone’s ancestors, for the most part, were thralls, slaves, oafs, peasants, serfs…. The list is endless.
What I want to know is this: Were my ancestors good slaves? Did they do a good job, or were they slackers? Because these things carry down through the generations no matter what our circumstances.
Are you a SLACKER?
“There were those who worked in the fields and those who worked in the house. Those who worked in the house protected their positions and felt above those who worked in the fields. But at the end of the day, they were all property. This is a truth the house niggers sought to deny. But it is a truism that Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice understand every day of their lives.” -Comment by headless lucy 9/16/05 @ 12:22 am
I stand by what I said.
Puddy/Mike Webb…
Perhaps if you used a real email address Akismet wouldn’t conclude your comments are spam.
HA HA HO HO HO BUSTED PUDDYBUD! LIAR! FAKE! HA HA HA!!!!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSER!!!!!
THANK YOU GOLDY!!!! HA HA HA!
The Great Rancid Butt-Putty and SuckyClownConservative is daring to show his putrid face again. . .the the pink’n’fuzzy Neoconvict. . .must be Vitiligo that keeps you hiding out down there in the South Sound. . . . .Darrel!
Isn’t secret government the best kind?
105
I think Goldy is saying that MWS and Puddypud are one and the same. Hmmmmmmmm
Funny how that works.
The Great RancidButtPutty, black man wannabee, and SuckyKlownKonservative(MWS) aka Darrell, are in fact all the same pathetic individual.
Darrell has taken the old ‘net canard, “No one knows you’re a dog online” and run with it. But that only works if you don’t pant and slobber all over yerself.
Funny how that works.