[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNs7Zpqo98[/youtube]
Then the issue can be talked about. These are legitimate concerns expressed in this video, but no birthers, no tenthers, no deathers, etc. Regular people have legitimate concerns, they should be talked about. That is how you wind up with better legislation.
Nobody can be an expert on everything, and this often precludes sensible but otherwise busy people from stating their views and asking questions. That’s too bad sometimes, but it seems like a lot of folks will tune in this fall.
This is democracy. You don’t have to agree in the end, that’s fine. People of good will can agree to disagree without all the nuttiness, and certainly without violence or violent overtones.
The clown shows are drawing down, and it’s time to send out the clowns and let the grown ups try to figure this out. This is about health insurance reform, and people who insist on either blowing up the discourse or trying to make this about bizarre, far right revisionism need to be called out by the traditional media.
There’s a hint of Autumn in the air, and August is over. If only President Barack Obama has the will to lead…
Senator Al Franken. He is, indeed, a statesman. Remarkable patience he demonstrates here, remarkable grasp of the issue at hand. Let’s see Oklahoma’s Jim Inhofe do something of this nature. Our bench is deep. The other side? Not so much.
@1 Brian Baird has been impressive as well.
2
I don’t know how these guys stay composed in the face of such vitriolic nonsense. I couldn’t do it. I would get snarky. That is, perhaps, why I’m not terribly drawn to being a politician.
These people are living reminders of the old saw that stupidity is a wall that God himself cannot breech.
4
Even God gets tired after awhile.
After months and months of witless muck coming out of Minnesota, finally a glimpse of the sensible folk I would like to imagine I was raised among.
Too Damn Funny!
Here Obama tries to ram thru Health Care Reform filled with Government Control and the fringe Lunatic Left is right behind him.
Then Sen. Baucus and the House Blue Dogs are the ADULTS putting the breaks on so it can be vetted. The more it is vetted, the more it stinks.
Now DeVore is trying to claim the High Ground???
Bad Try==No Sale.
You KLOWNS blew it.
Mr. Cynical,
Have I told you today how laughably amateurish you are in your attempts to propagandize.
I suspect Goebbels would be very disappointed in you….
and still not a word from the retards about the Commie 911 Troofer that Onutta put in place as a czar…..
glad to see Onutta’s presidency is disintegrating before our very eyes.
Clearly freshman Senator Al Franken has no idea how this works; you must polarize the voters so you are for, or against, something in a way that allows you, and your opposition, to solicite funds to fight for, or against, something (real, or imagined).
Why is it that two different towns in Texas charge different rates for the same medical treatements?
What the fuck is that!
You can not ask people thoughtful questions, and hope for yelling sound bites in return to use in your next campaign, dumbass.
Although he is very proud of olbermann.
Dan rather no doubt would get an honorable mention for his use of fake documents to slam a sitting president before an election.
8. Darryl spews:
Ahhhh Darryl, once again out of sheer frustration with the downfall of the Progressive Movement, you must resort to the Nazi innuendo.
Amatuerish Darryl??
The fact is Obama did try to ram thru government-controlled reform. His deadline was pre-recess in August.
He failed.
Propaganda??
All you can do is name-call.
Saturday, September 05, 2009
Obama and his KLOWNmates are now trying to claim some artificial high ground after they created the debacle.
There will be no single-payer or government controlled Health Care Darryl.
This was one of your big stick it to the Conservatives issues.
Didn’t happen Darryl.
Get over it.
Swallow your pride, if you have any, and move on!
Obama is a far-left radical who appoints far-left radicals like Van Jones.
http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....reen-czar/
Even TOP Democrat Strategist Beckel is calling for Jones to resign NOW!!
Obama is proving what prognositcators told the public pre-election.
In 2010 Elections, watch for many Dems to distance themselves from Obama.
In 2012, Obama will have a track record of appointments and proposed Legistlastion and Leadership to defend.
You will see Obama totally on the defensive.
Blaming Bush won’t work twice.
Obama will be un-elected based on his ACTIONS!
Proud leftist @ 3–
Are you in Montana yet??
I offered to buy you lunch.
We just got back last night from 3 days in the Great Falls/Helena are. It was beautiful.
90 degrees and sunny.
Went to Gates of the Mountains and Holter Lake.
Archery Season started today.
Lots of hunters…and Fish & Wildlife agents up there.
Let me know your schedule.
“[P]eople who insist on … blowing up the discourse or … bizarre, far right revisionism need to be called out by the traditional media.”
You seem to think the traditional media, which are privately owned and not surprisingly reflect the biases of its rich white male Republican owners, are interested in practicing responsible journalism.
My advice is to look elsewhere if that’s what you want.
Problems with the traditional media’s economic model aren’t the only reasons their businesses are floundering. Quite frankly, today’s MSM don’t deserve readership and viewership, and aren’t of sufficient social utility to merit the economic resources their sustenance requires. If advertisers, for purely business reasons, take their advertising dollars elsewhere and the traditional media go under as a result, their passing will occasion few tears. We won’t miss them very much.
@1 The other side has no bench, just a bunch of brain-dead benchwarmers.
Mr. Cynical,
“Ahhhh Darryl, once again out of sheer frustration with the downfall of the Progressive Movement, you must resort to the Nazi innuendo.”
I’ve never shied away from “the Nazi innuendo.” When you right-wing extremists attempt to act like propagandists, what better comparison is there?
“The fact is Obama did try to ram thru government-controlled reform.”
See…right there. The term “government-controlled” is a Wingding propaganda term. In less polite company, I would have to accuse you of lying.
“His deadline was pre-recess in August. He failed. Propaganda??”
Indeed…propaganda. And really lousy propaganda, at that. You see, when you use the word “deadline”, it implies that the subject of the deadline is dead after the deadline. Yet, we seem to be involved in a vigorous debate over proposed legislation. Hence, your exaggeration hurts your claim (i.e. most people dismiss you as either ignorant, or willfully hyperbolic).
“All you can do is name-call.”
Here again…lousy propaganda. Obviously, I sometimes name call. But, any random sample of my writings here would clearly demonstrate your statement as groundless exaggeration.
Come-on Cynical, you can do better….
@7 Corporate control is better? At least there’s some small chance of being able to make government work in people’s interest, because of the people’s ultimate control of the ballot box. But I think the more pertinent question is, what government control are you talking about? After Republican lies and demagoguery are brushed away, this will still be a privately owned and privately run health care system.
@7 (continued) Of course, idiots like Klown are always happy to take their marching orders from people like Richard Scott, whose hospital company looted Medicare for billions, and who is one of the leading organizers and funders of the “Astroturf” groups behind the organized ignorance of the Crazy Right.
Frankly, Klown, I’m more in sympathy with the concepts of “freedom” and “individual choice” than you might think. You could readily persuade me to support just enough government regulation of health insurance to protect me and my family, and my liberal friends and their families, no more, and let you stupid rednecks fend for yourselves.
My attitude is kind of like, if you want to throw yourself on the tender mercies of unregulated insurance companies, then be my fucking guest. I don’t care anymore what you do to yourself, and I’m not willing to invest any more effort in saving you from yourself. Just don’t drag me down with you, that’s all I insist on — you have no right to do that.
Mr. Cynical
“Obama and his KLOWNmates are now trying to claim some artificial high ground after they created the debacle.”
I have no idea what you are babbling about here. Is “claiming artificial high ground” something one does in Google Earth or something?
“There will be no single-payer or government controlled Health Care Darryl.”
I agree…neither were seriously on the table.
“This was one of your big stick it to the Conservatives issues.”
You seem confused by your own propaganda!
“Didn’t happen Darryl.”
Obviously, it hasn’t yet.
“Get over it.”
Get over what?
“Swallow your pride, if you have any, and move on!”
LOL Cynical! Do you have any idea how politics works? Oh…wait. That’s right. You are just a lousy propagandist.
Feel better now Darryl??
Just keep hangin’ on to the Hope and Change thing…like a Ship Anchor!
Once a President loses the trust of the majority of the people and has a 38% that Strongly Disapprove of him…it’s mighty tough to regain that trust.
Especially when you appoint all these “CZARS” with zero input from Congress.
That’s how Van Jones was slipped in.
Obama seems more & more angry when challenged on this stuff. The MSM softened him to believe he was unaccountable.
Keep reading about Van Jones.
You will hear about this in the 2010 and 2012 elections!!
http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....es-resign/
And here is Van Jones’ resume–
How unimpressive!!
http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....es-resume/
@9 God, what will it take to get better trolls on this blog? I’m not asking, I’m begging!
Mr Cynical spews:
Which is another way of saying that monkeys will fly out of Cynical’s butt and up his nose.
@10 You’ve sort of got a point. Lousy civics, but practical politics.
The problem with politics is that if you leave it up to people to choose their leaders, some of them will choose Michelle Bachmann or Jim Inhofe. I don’t know how to get around that. Maybe we need stronger involuntary commitment laws. You certainly can make a case that Republicans are a danger to themselves and others.
Lying?
So you are saying there is not going to be any government control with the government healthcare reform?
@17 “Come-on Cynical, you can do better….”
I haven’t see any evidence he can.
typical democrat.
Begging for someone else to do something.
Why don’t you put up some $ of your own to get better trolls.
Marvin,
“So you are saying there is not going to be any government control with the government healthcare reform?”
No I am not saying that. There has been some government control over health care for generations.
See The White House’s Health Industry Guest List
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....77707.html
Change . . .
Uhhhh…marvin? I thought personal responsibility was important to rethuglicants. I think that means YOU need to step up.
Maybe bring something to the table once in a while instead of wasting bandwidth.
Your party NEEDS you comrade marvin…heil cheney!!!
(ROTFLMAO)
they are far too reasonable to be Republicans, they must be some kind of plant.
And Franken is far too intelligent to be a Democrat, what the hell is he?
Mr. Cynical @ 21
“Feel better now Darryl??”
I wasn’t feeling ill, but thanks for askin’, Cynical.
“Just keep hangin’ on to the Hope and Change thing…like a Ship Anchor!”
I am relishing every day of change–from having amateurs and criminals in the White House.
My biggest complaint is that none of the criminals from the previous administration have been tried for their crimes (domestic spying, illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, torture, etc.). The Hague awaits….
“Once a President loses the trust of the majority of the people and has a 38% that Strongly Disapprove of him…it’s mighty tough to regain that trust.”
As I pointed out recently, Obama is doing slightly better than Bush was at this point in his presidency.
Speaking of losing trust, remember last January?:
What are you talking about?
So it’s MY responsibility to do for the rabbit?
What are you going to do for me squirt? Show me how “doing for others” is done. I’ll give you a chance to lead by example.
If I’m a waste of bandwidth, why do you keep replying to me like a trained monkey?
If you stopped replying to me that would save bandwidth.
Can you save bandwidth or do you need a government program to do for you.
Slightly better?
Now you see why the country isn’t falling for the hope & change crap anymore.
@35 “Now you see why the country isn’t falling for the hope & change crap anymore.”
And their alternative is what? Same Old Shit Sandwich from the Republicans? I don’t see them flocking back to that.
Marvin Stamn,
“Slightly better?”
Yep.
“Now you see why the country isn’t falling for the hope & change crap anymore.”
Right…and they got past the “compassionate conservative” crap slightly faster.
What it really means is that the same old polarization that we had eight years ago exists today.
That’s the problem.
There is no alternative to the dems/reps.
And it’s not as if the obama is capable or willing to change it.
Franken did a great job. I learned a few things and was reminded of others.
Minnesota has cost controls, which they should all be proud of. Franken wanted the rest of the nation to follow MN’s success, so that MN wouldn’t be punished for running a tighter ship (lower Medicare reimbursement).
Another point of consensus was removing the Bush Admin’s law preventing Medicare from negotiating the cost of medications. This is such an obvious improvement to make. Were the trogs ever to propose their own healthcare plan, you’d hope they’d fix this wildly unpopular giveaway to Big Pharma by permitting something like an open market.
But the trogs don’t have a plan. And they’re just fine with the rigged game. Demonstrating once again that their opposition is solely for political reasons, not based on any ideas, beliefs, or principles.
The last point Franken made, which I had forgotten, was that our healthcare reform would make us more like Switzerland, vs the UK, Australia, or Canada. We’d preserve most of the current healthcare structure with some improvements. Better regulations (universal coverage, no preexisting conditions, etc) and real choices for consumers would lower costs overall. Just like the Swiss did.
But trogs are against improvement, against consumer choice, and against providing healthcare for the young, disabled, and infirm.
I don’t think Franken persuaded his opponents at that time. But I think his demeanor and willingness to find common ground and the respect he had for his critics will open the door to future dialog in Minnesota.
Franken did good.
Marvin Stamn,
“And it’s not as if the obama is capable or willing to change it.”
Obama has been willing to change it. And, in fairness, I believe Bush was willing to change it. But neither were able to change it, and I seriously doubt anyone ever will be able to change it, beyond short-lived, typically event-based, turn-arounds. I suspect it is a structural feature of our two-party system.
Hey X’ad.
In a previous thread, you mentioned that Mr. Cynical lives in Montana. Well of course.
That’s just awesome. I have visions of Quixote attacking windmills. Cracks me up.
Have you been hanging with lee smoking the good stuff?
I ask because you seem to be making sense lately.
29. Darryl spews:
Now wait a second Darryl….
Out of one corner of your massive piehole, you complain vehemently about the state of the current Health Care system.
Then you say there has always been some government control.
And now you want MORE Government Control??
Sheesh….are you smokin’ cheap pot with the rest of the KLOWNS this weekend??
Apparently Jason Osgood has never travelled to Montana. Good people and great scenery…something you can’t find in the double latte world of Mr. Osgood safely ensconced in the bubble of ignorance that is western Washington.
Mr. Cynical,
“Now wait a second Darryl….”
Yes, Gramps?
“Out of one corner of your massive piehole, you complain vehemently about the state of the current Health Care system.”
“Complain vehemently”??? I don’t think so. Like most people (when they aren’t pretending to be propagandists-in-training), I recognize strengths and weaknesses in our health care infrastructure, regulations, and financing.
“Then you say there has always been some government control.”
This is simply a fact. It is also a fact that many of the massive improvements in human longevity and quality of life over the last 150 years are largely the result of government “control”, intervention, regulation, research sponsorship, infrastructure development, and even marketing.
This is no clearer than in public health, where government-based sanitary sewers, potable water distribution systems, garbage collection, food hygiene & purity regulations, immunization programs, and disease eradication programs allow us to enjoy freedoms and offers greater prosperity that can only come through good health.
“And now you want MORE Government Control??”
As long as there are preventable diseases, health hazards in the environment, and people that cannot afford a reasonable standard of health care, I want the system improved.
Broadly speaking I have no preference for “government controlled” versus private solutions or more “government control” versus status quo or less “government control”. I just want it fixed and fixed effectively.
Given the incredible improvements in public health infrastructure, health care infrastructure, health care access over the last 150 years as government has become increasingly more “involved,” I think it is fair to say that subsequent improvements will involve government.
Cynical @ 14
I’m leaving in a few days. We’re fishing the Missouri (tailwater below Holter Dam) and the Clark Fork. I appreciate the offer, but don’t know if you’re in that area.
PL–
The Holter Lake/Dam area is beautiful right now. You are coming at a great time.
If you get a chance, go on the Gates to the Mountains chuggy-chuggy boatride.
Runs at 11 and 2…2 hour trip.
The guide is incredibly knowledgeable.
Have a good, safe trip.
Watch out for the archery hunters!
If you’re going to the gates of the mountains…bring sunscreen (no damn shade up there)…SPF 45 should do.
Clark fork was nice, aside from the Horse flies larger than most mini coopers.
Also, go eat at Izaak’s in Craig, MT.
It is right off I-15 between Helena and Great Falls.
If you like lamb, it’s excellent.
SO is the beef.
We just ate there Thursday night.
It was packed.
On weekends, they have live entertainment outside the restaurant. Some folks pull up their vehicles and listen.
Here is a link–
http://www.goldwest.visitmt.com/listings/17067.htm
ESO–
Yup, still lots of big dang flies….and snakes.
The forecast temp on Tues is 70 and showers…but upper 70’s after that.
PL…you are coming at the right time. School is in session, so less family pressure.
The only problem this time of year is the fish are sometimes kind of soft/mushy because the water is pretty warm.
Best time to catch and eat is Spring.
We pretty much catch-and-release….except ponds & lakes in the Spring.
BTW–
Where is the Leftist Outrage at the civilian deaths in Afghanistan??
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,546903,00.html
I’m just askin”
Apparently pre-1/19/09, civilian deaths were an outrage.
Now they are ok?? Nothing to be upset about??
I’m just askin’
Democrat Senators losing their will to fight??
http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....ghanistan/
Obama has a real mess on his hands…courtesy of his fellow Democrats and his lack of leadership skills.
What you MISSED, because you’re so fucking dense…is an invitation to be something more than the lamest troll goatfucker in an exceptionally lame pack of troll goatfuckers.
Aim high stamn…achieve! Be the change YOU wish to see in the world.
(…fat chance)
So you want me to do for someone else and you won’t do anything for me.
Classic rujax.
Like the “Little Lebowski Urban Achievers” marvin…be all you can be!
Silly, silly marvin…don’t you know your selfish attitude won’t geet you anywhere in life?
Cynical @ up above
I’ve been going to Montana in September for at least the last dozen years, and trying to fit in other trips as well (I was just there in July). You are correct–the rivers clear up after the family vacations and you get a whole lot of space to yourself. My dad’s from Montana (Fort Benton), and I’ve gone there all my life. It is a spectacularly beautiful state, almost as beautiful as my home state of Alaska. My favorite river is the Big Hole. Have you fished that one?
Nope–haven’t fished the Big Hole.
Most of the guys at our Church have…
especially those who were guides.
As you can understand, living in Montana ain’t stupid. Living in dense Urban areas is….I don’t miss it at all.
Great video, if anyone wants to see the article where he gets his McAllen / El Paso / Mayo facts, check out:
http://www.newyorker.com/repor.....ct_gawande
A VERY important read for anyone interested in this issue.