The Stranger is reporting from the scene. The last tent has come down, and a dozen or so arrests have been made. I’m not seeing any reports of pepper spray or tazering and the police aren’t in riot gear, so it could have been worse. Still, a damn shame that it’s happened.
I’m going to head down to Westlake park, and see what’s going on. Will update this post as appropriate.
[update 5:43] There are 100-150 people or so. Mostly in one group South of the fountain and a smaller group directly across the street from the mall. I don’t see any police around, but there are a few empty police cars parked. Some have parked under the awning of the building with the Sees and the Tully’s. People are handing out doughnuts and pizza. Others are playing music. It’s a peaceful scene.
[update 5:51] a few of the signs:
– We are the 99%
– Occupy Seattle
– Good Jobs Peace and Medicine for all
– Tax Wall Street
– No Afghanistan War
[update 6:09] People are telling me there will be a “general assembly” at 6:30. Nobody I talked to knew exactly what that meant though. My battery is pretty low, so I’m shutting down until then.
[update 6:34] The first item on the agenda is retaking.
[update 6:41] They’re still deciding how to make the decisions.
[update 6:50] I can’t really hear anyone, so I’m going to try to find a better spot, my apologies.
[update 7:06] We’re coalescing around staying here or going to another park: City Hall, Seattle Center, Freeway Park. I think we’re coming around to staying here or Seattle Center if we’re kicked out, but leaning toward here. But again, I can’t hear everything, so that makes it harder.
[update 7:14] To the people honking: you’re awesome, but making it even tougher to hear.
[update 7:20] I just talked to a woman at the food tent. She says they’d like to be able organize hot meals, especially Midweek at breakfast or lunch. squirlqueen@gmail if you, or your church, etc. can help. Once a week hot meals would be great. Someone else said anyone with any food, they’ll take it.
[7:32 update] My battery is pretty close to dead, but it sounds like they’re staying put. I’m going to recharge it, and grab some food. I’m out for a while.
[9:40 update] I’m back at Westlake. A few dozen people are along 4th Ave and every time the light turns, and a rush of cars come by, cars are honking. People are milling about. I have no idea how many.
[9:46 update] There’s only one police car. I don’t know if cops are massing elsewhere, or if they just aren’t around.
[10:27 update] The rumor was that police would clear people out at 10:00, and that hasn’t happened. I’ve been told people with writing on their arms are willing to get arrested (it’s legal info). The people I talked to now and earlier have said that the people saying “fuck the police” etc, don’t represent the majority. But I guess they were the only ones with megaphones. It sounds like a total of 30 people arrested.
I’m probably heading home soon, but I can’t tell you how brave the people here willing to get arrested, willing to spend the night in the cold, drizzly, hard ground, willing to be seen are. I can’t tell you how proud I am of each of them.
hey carl, while you are down there, tell those fucking lazy assholes to get a job.
…then again, after seeing some of their mugs on TV, I dont think many of them are even hireable.
Arrests at Occupy Seattle? Y’all already occupy Seattle. This is just for show!
In case you didn’t see it in the Open Thread, Apple founder Steve Jobs has died.
@1 What jobs do you suggest they get? The jobs Bush promised his Tax Cuts For The Rich (patented) would create?
So, they could sit there 24/7 if they didn’t erect a tent?
How much is the city spending in overtime pay to have cops take down tents?
KING 5 interviewed some gal who was a protester down in Seattle..
She looked like a scuzzy, nasty, zit faced, overweight reject – probably in her early 20’s.
The job description on the TV under her name was “Professor”!!!!!!!
HAHHAHAHHAHAHH – fucking classic!
@4
gee Roger, plenty of companies are hiring right now – Hell, even Boeing is hiring like crazy!
of course, nobody wants to hire a bunch of scuzzy, unkempt, uneducated(or educated in shit that is irrelevant in the real world…IE stuff like anthropology or basket weaving) loud mouthed losers – so I guess this bunch in seattle is shit outta luck.
who’s fault is that?
@6 Sounds like your girlfriend … no, wait, this is your girlfriend:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3y9S.....goat_1.jpg
@8 Kinda looks like one of your daughters….after they were shaved and cleaned up by the local pimp.
SPD officers never lie … er, do they?
“Eric Rachner is doing everything he can to make the Seattle Police Department regret his arrest three years ago while playing a game of ‘urban golf’ on Capitol Hill. …
“In 2010, he won a $60,000 public-disclosure judgment against the department for denying it had dashboard-camera recordings of his arrest as well as logs of the recordings, when it did. …
“On Wednesday, Rachner sued the department and officers involved in his 2008 arrest for … false arrest, malicious prosecution and ‘spoliation of video evidence.’ …
“The lawsuit alleges the arresting officer … can be heard telling other officers that he had ‘arrested Rachner because Rachner had acted “edjumicated,”‘ a mocking mispronunciation of ‘educated.’ While booking him at the station house, [he] told another officer that Rachner was a ‘brainiac.’ The other officer responded, ‘Fine … we can play that game.’ …
“Rachner and [his attorney] … allege that what happened was not an anomaly, but the norm. They claim the department routinely says it does not have videos when it does, or denies releasing it under a Catch-22 interpretation of public disclosure laws that allows the videos to be withheld for up to three years — the statute of limitation for filing a civil lawsuit. Coincidentally, Rachner said, the department has a three-year video retention policy. ‘So what happens is that you can’t get the video until it’s gone,’ he said.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....am06m.html
Roger Rabbit Commentary: What we have here is not an isolated incident but systematic lying by the Seattle Police Department that it does not have evidence that it does have, and systematic and deliberate and wholesale violation of the state’s public records law. These cops are acting a whole lot like a bunch of people who think they’re above the law.
Pack you cagoule and come on down!
Wonder how much money the city of Seattle just blew on a completely pointless activity?
We sorta have a standing rule that other peoples family members be left out of this.
@9 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For photo of super-sexy supermodel click here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/unaerica/2146127109/
Now if you don’t think that’s gorgeous, you just don’t have good taste!
@12
so girlfriends arent family?
go talk to the rabbit turd.
I’m a good progressive, but I cringe at the visual of “protesters” defying cops by refusing to come out of their tents. Jesus, what wimps.
@15
WTF??? Does that even mean?
@14
The meaning’s quite different. It’s obvious The Rabbit is poking fun of you.
Floater Alert – – DOPEY Rabbit pickup on Aisle 6
Now back to the thread… I thought the reason for these was to attack the “Tea Party take over of the Republican Party” among other things? So how does that happen in Seattle? There isn’t much of a Republican party in this dive!
So I have to ask the arschloch… was that Mrs Arschloch in the audience at the 10 second mark?
@7 According to our new (recycled old?) troll there’s plenty of jobs for anyone who wants one.
Tell that to the unemployed, dickhead.
First they fuck up the economy. Then they pretend nothing is wrong with the economy. Well, what do you expect from people who tell us that giving tax breaks to billionaires creates jobs? The only thing that creates is richer billionaires.
Fortunately, I don’t need a job. I live off the land, like Republicans do. It doesn’t make any sense to work because working doesn’t pay. People who have worked hard all their lives have ended up with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, stock flippers like me are laughing all the way to the bank.
@18 Just try picking me up and see what happens to you.
@12 Wingnuts don’t follow rules, ours or anyone else’s.
@17 Either he didn’t click on the link or he just admitted he’s a goat.
@18
I never got the idea that this had anything to do with the Tea Party or the Republicans or the Democrats. Note, they didn’t bother camping out in DC, they went to Wall Street.
Let’s review…
The shorter response
So Boeing isn’t hiring DOPEY Rabbit? Wasn’t it Gary Locke who did that tax break thing as guvnur earlier last decade?
The Zombies are coming DOPEY Rabbit… R U Ready?
@8 ” There isn’t much of a Republican party in this dive!”
If you don’t like it here, then move to someplace where people are just as dumb as you.
@17
as I am at him.
if someone cant take being jabbed, they best not do it themselves.
@25 Oh yeah, Boeing is going to reduce the unemployment rate all by itself? I have news for you, the Eurozone is about to collapse and we’re about to slide into another global recession, what do you think that will do to Boeing deliveries?
Michael just doesn’t pay attention. I posted the “labor leader” who called for “Occupy Wall Street” long ago on this blog multiple times Michael… SEIU guy Steve Lerner. So why doesn’t Steve Lerner offer them protesters as yob? You can ask the crazed HA databaze chronologically monomaniacal (aptly named by PTBAA) arschloch
Do you sit all day reading left wrong porn? Apparently you do!
So that’s the trolls’ answer to the Bush Depression: Apply at Boeing.
@19
There are jobs out there going begging, but there’s a mismatch between the people that need jobs and the skills they need to get the jobs. The folks that need retraining are flat broke and can’t afford to retrain, Republicans seem dead set on not spending any money on retraining, and most of the Democrats don’t seem very motivated to go against the Republicans.
There are also miss matches in geography, like folks in southern Ohio that could have jobs if they could move, but they can’t sell their homes so they can’t move.
We need to get people retrained and we need to get people mobile so they can go where the jobs are. Since large corporations and the ultra wealthy are just sitting around sitting on a hell of a lot of capital we might want to tell them that either they can start working on this on their own or we can tax the fuck out of them and do it for them. Either way it gets people trained and mobile and it get more capital moving around.
@30
last I checked, bush hasnt been prez in over 3 years.
and Boeing was just one example you dolt.
clueless old fart
Oh my DOPEY Rabbit, is this another of your change that tune attempts? Yes it is!
Except you have it wrong again… Joe Biden disagrees with the DOPEY Rabbit… and he has more clout than a DOPEY Rabbit.
@31
michael,
This is what happens when you build an economy based on debt – its been in the making for over 30 years. people lived their lives based on debt, and so did the govt….and here we are.
there is no magic fix, and the people that say “tax the rich!” are just kidding themselves – we are in wayyyyy past just taxing the rich to pay for shit.
this is the result of party lemmings who vote D and R without using their brains…whole lotta lemmings here at HA.
remember when the lemmings said obama was the great savior? hope n change! LMFAO…the lemmings at that shit up like apple pie.
hell, ylb couldnt get john edwards’ cock out his mouth fast enough to get obama’s cock in….and he is just one example of the true fanatic lemmings here.
@34
For the most part I agree. But, there are some things we can do.
It starts with getting money moving again, getting more money in the hands of the working class will do that. There’s no consumer demand because the bottom 90% of the country is broke.
Getting people employed and getting the under employed better employed will help too. But, that’s going to cost money. No just taxing the rich wont pay for it, we need to do more than that. But, we do need to tax the ultra wealthy and large corporations more while we’re at it.
Damn straight, there’s no magic fix and we’re not claiming there is. That’s something that people that are opposed to us are making up about us. Stop being such a tool.
This things is going to take a hell of a lot of hard work and time to get out of. But, its also going to take changes in taxes, trade, education, banking, and about a billion other things while we’re at it.
@35
LOL…Im hardly a tool….The tools are the people who think taxing rich, or cutting spending to $0 is going to solve anything.
If you ask me, the only way the debt problem will be solved is if whole system collapses and starts from square 1 again.
I agree, money needs to get moving again – but NOT by having people who make $40k a year thinking they can live like they make $140k a year. they are just as much at fault as anybody else for the crappola we as a nation are in.
sorry dude – I have zero sympathy for the assholes in govt or the asshole pretenders who live their lives on Visa or mastercard…fuck them both.
Those ultra-liberals in the 50’s were real tools..
They were so deluded that they could pay for the Marshall Plan, Korean and Cold Wars and service the WWII bond debt by taxing the top earners at rates approaching 91 percent.
So those tools reduced taxes to around 70 percent – that paid for Vietnam and the Apollo program.. Wow how depressed things were in the 60’s.
Tax cuts have fueled prosperity ever since. Look at how well we’re doing today.
Perhaps, but I think trying to prevent that from happening is still a good idea.
I’ve got 0 debit even my house is paid for (thank you grandpa!), I can grow a big garden and can fruits and veggies, and get around just fine on my bike. If things do collapse I should get by better than most.
I’d really rather not have it come to that.
Wow asshat one note wonder is one limber SOB!
Been sucking his own johnson so long in these comments threads, shit, the asshat just can’t stop!
I’m sure he’ll take a break to get Ron Paul’s old withered member a shot..
Naaaaaaahhh..
We here are doing pretty damn good…so fuck you – go get a job you lazy bastard.
@34
Remember when the Teahadists and the Rabid Reich thought Flip Flop McCain and the half term governor Mushmouth Palin were the winning ticket?
@38
Well I seriously doubt society would collapse, but I do the financial/monetary side would…and perhaps should.
Nice to hear someone with their shit together…we seem to be fewer and fewer.
@41
fail.
@39
you are right..I am limber..and the wife loves it.
fat fucks like you who sit around all day can barely find their own shrunken knob.
keep on with that urban basement lifestyle there champ…
Uhhh.. Question.. If American debt is such a problem why are interest rates so low?
Gee a greek 10 year bond yields 23 percent!
How about a 10 year u.s. treasury???
(drumroll)
2.125 percent..
Wow we’re paying loan shark rates because our debt situation is so freaking bad!
@45
another economics wizard…LMFAO.
keep that head in the sand there big boy – its that kind of thinking that has gotten you this far in life….what a success! LMFAO….
LMAO! Yep it must tickle her funny bone watching you suck your own prick like you do in these comment threads..
46 – LMAO!!! We’re such a terrible credit risk compared to Greece..
Ok Greece is a special case.. How about Australia?
Shit the yield on a 10 year Aussie Bond is a tad over 5.6 percent.
I don’t get it asshat.. Gee I thought according to dipshit geniuses like you the markets would be charging loan shark rates on us by now.
@42
If the economy goes down there’s going to be shortages of gas and slim pickings at the grocery stores for a bit. You’ll want to have ways of getting around other than your car and ways of getting food other than the stores.
These Downtown scumbags are merely unemployable losers bought & paid for by MoveOn.org who is promoting this charade. What a joke.
They don’t want jobs.
They somehow feel important with cameras on them.
@32 Why don’t you walk up to this guy and call him a “lazy asshole” and suggest he apply for a job at Boeing? Don’t get me wrong — I don’t hope he kills you. I want you to stick around so we can kick you around some more. I enjoy kicking trolls like you.
“Jon Reiner, a former marketing executive and father of two boys, figures he has sent out 2,000 resumes since he was laid off for the third time nearly five years ago. He has not gotten a single job offer.
“An unassuming presence in the colorful crowd that marched in New York on Wednesday, the 49-year-old Reiner nevertheless is in many ways typical of the protesters who have established the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ camp just blocks away from the New York Stock Exchange.
“His despair and frustration are palpable as he speaks about how his wife has returned to work as a high school teacher to support their family. Even so, he says, they ran out of their savings last year and now are in debt. …
“Now a stay-at-home dad at the couple’s two-bedroom apartment in New York City’s Upper West Side, Reiner is one of the forgotten jobless – someone who has been without work for so long that he is no longer officially on the unemployment rolls. He is grateful that he has finally found a place where he can voice his worries and hopes for the future: at the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ camp.”
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.co.....t-occupier
@34 “This is what happens when you build an economy based on debt – its been in the making for over 30 years. people lived their lives based on debt, and so did the govt….and here we are.”
Well duh, golly, gee whiz, this country has been run by Republicans and their look-ma-no-regulations free market philosophy for the last 30 days … do ya suppose that had anything to do with it?
I am excited to see this movement grow exponentially and I hope it is a counterbalance the the shit head tea party.The disparities between rich and poor have never been bigger , so I want the crooks on Wall Street brought to justice by Main Street.
The best sign I have seen is- NO BEARS, NO BULLS JUST PIGS
correction @52: “for the last 30 years” not “days”
Tax Holidays Don’t Create Jobs
“Ten major U.S. corporations … laid off workers after enjoying a tax holiday in 2004-2005 that had been billed as a form of economic stimulus, said a report released on Tuesday.
“With large multinational companies today pressing Congress for another tax holiday, the Institute for Policy Studies reported that the last one did not fulfill its rosy promises for hundreds of thousands of U.S. workers.
“Fifty-eight corporations that accounted for 70 percent of overseas profits repatriated under the 2004-2005 tax break collectively saved $64 billion in taxes, then cut 600,000 jobs through layoffs, the report said.
“Large companies are lobbying again for such a tax break …. Just as they are doing now, companies six years ago said that the repatriation tax break would boost jobs and the economy. But the institute said this did not happen, as earlier academic studies have also found. ‘History shows that many ‘tax holiday’ companies use repatriated profits to reward executives and other shareholders, then lay off workers,’ said [a] co-author of the report ….”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44769782
Roger Rabbit Commentary: It is, of course, Republicans who sponsor “tax holidays” for corporations. Deficit reduction is just a ruse used by Republicans to eviscerate programs for working-class families. If they were serious about reducing deficits they wouldn’t support useless and unproductive tax holidays for big companies that don’t produce any jobs.
The reason the middle class is in debt is that real wages for most people have stagnated for 30 years. People have been living on debt because for a long time it had the illusion of being cheap, and was used to make up for the fact that ever-increasing “productivity” was not rewarded with higher real wages – the owner class has kept all the wealth for themselves.
With systematic lowering of tax rates at the top, wealth has been transferred upward into fewer and fewer hands. Lower marginal tax rates means that after-tax money is ‘cheaper’ and so favors keeping it, rather than reinvesting it pre-tax into the business that generated it – favoring buying jets and mansions rather than hiring another worker and buying a machine for them to use.
Much of the present US Government deficit going forward is attributable to 1. Bush tax cuts and 2. Iraq/Afghanistan – gifts that keep on giving from that syphilitic imbecile ‘W’.
What the Government by/for/of the wealthy has done is this: concentrated wealth at the top and expanded debt for everyone else, and is now using this debt as an excuse to shrink government and impose ‘austerity’ on the masses – a self-perpetuating race to the bottom that will ultimately yield the neo-feudal dystopia of their dreams.
Interesting Fact Check on Ed Rendell’s claims about Clinton’s Tax increase and jobs. 21.4 million jobs were created between the passage of the Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 and the end of Clinton’s term, not 23.5 million, as Ed Rendell states. Taxes increased for the top 1.2% of Americans, not 2%, as Ed Rendell stated. The economy did grow substantially after the passage of the bill, but just because B happens after A, doesn’t mean A caused B, and in this case it’s impossible to prove causation. Senior fellows at the Brookings Institution, Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation all point to differing factors to what led to the huge economic growth between 1993 and 2001. Some say the economy grew despite the tax increases. Too many converging factors to isolate the tax increase and say somehow it caused growth. It’s learning you have cancer and pointing to the pizza you ate 2 years ago as the cause.
Wait a sec… Didn’t the right wing ding dipshits say that unemployment stopped dropping at the exact moment Obamacare was passed??
Yeah this dipshit says it here:
http://horsesass.org/?p=37308#comment-1109467
Except in North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Vermont..
Notice that Gawd’s last place on earth Montana is not on that list.
But, I thought they were all stoned, ragamuffin, youth with no clear message?
Hey everyone, I’m down here at Occupy Seattle, too. This awesome! Me and everyone here are so sick of greedy people who make money and stuff and have jobs and stuff and they shop at malls and stuff. They are the problem, man. Making money, saving money. And then rich people makin’ all that money. They are greedy pigs and stuff. Me and my old lady are squatting in a foreclosed house in north Seattle. Why don’t those rich pigs give us some of that money? We earned it just as much as they did.
I hate capitalism! Down with the USA!. Down with Israel! Free Mumia! I am Troy Davis! War is Terrorism! No justice, no peace!
As demonstrated by post #60…
You know, the republicans do a far better job illustrating their idiocy, just by being themselves, than we ever could lampooning them.
Here is a story about a couple Westlake Protestors who got bored with the charade and headed to Michigan.
Hey everyone, I’m live-commenting here from Westlake park! People over profits! I’m headed to a nearby Starbucks or Nike store to scream at the corporate tools inside! Who’s with me?
PS, can someone watch my tent, and all the shit inside that I stole from local stores while I’m gone?
As we see @62, our trolls once again advance subtle, thought-provoking, insightful arguments regarding critical issues facing the Republic.
@64
Westy’s not a toll and that cop should get double time for having to see that!
Just FYI: Boeing isn’t “hiring like crazy”. Sure, they are doing some hiring, but it is pretty carefully targeted, and it is being done gradually.
The Boeing web site lists a lot of positions such as “QC level 3 and 4”, which generally means Boeing is planning on making internal promotions/transfers, but is advertising the position generally to conform to EEOC guidelines.
As for “novice” workers coming in as inexperienced Machinists, there was a big boom in hiring about three to four years ago as Boeing tried to throw manpower at the 787 program’s problems, but now the hiring is mainly to replace the expected attrition of older workers who retire over the next ten years. But everyone is expecting layoffs to begin sometime beginning in 2013 as the 787 program settles into a more mature production cycle, and they don’t need lots of machinists to “swarm” an airplane in order to complete travelling re-work on the flight line or in the second 787 re-work bays.
At the same time, there is a flood of requests for transfers among senior workers (age 50+) from the 737 program in Renton. Those machinists are worried that the new 737-MAX is going to be built elsewhere, and they want to be settled into a program in Everett where they can finish out their careers locally.
What everyone dreds is becoming laid off at age 55 or 60, since the odds of finding secure employment with benefits at that age are remarkably low. Most are lucky to get some intermittant contract work over the next five or ten years.
Heck, even Texas Roadhouse Grill was sued this week by the government for conducting a discriminatory hiring policy which made minimum-wage “front of house” jobs unavailable to anyone who wasn’t “young and hot”.
How much training does someone have to have to get one of those jobs?
Down with corporate greed! 9/11 was an inside job!! Tea baggers are nazis!!!
Everyone come down to Westlake park. We are making a statement!
@65
Westy is not a troll? How do you account for this:
The NYT changes it story…
@69
Must have mistaken him for someone else! Eeps. Still think that cop should get some double time pay though.
Fact: A guy I know said he heard that someone in an AOL chatroom said that he read on the internet that the group behind Occupy Wall Street has in the past said some anti-Jewish remarks.
@72
See, now that’s some good Troll action.
Continuation of # 66: The financial plan for most Americans used to be rather simple. In your twenties, you got married, bought a house and a car or two, and had kids. You spent the next twenty years working to pay the bills, borrowing money to buy replacement cars, and if you were lucky you put a little aside in a college fund for your kids, a wedding for your girl, and for retirement later.
Some 25 years or so later, your kids are out of college and out of the house. You are in your 50’s, and you have about ten years left before retirement. You have ten to fifteen years of reduced demands on your expenses, and you expect your house to be paid off a few years before you retire. So you take the opportunity to start saving heavily for retirement, with the goal of stretching your retirement savings to pay for another decade or so of retirement.
But the economy over the past decade has made that difficult, if not impossible. Children have been unable to find jobs, and stay at home – some returning home with spouses and their own children in tow. Older workers have been hit with demands from management to accept significant salary reductions ranging from 10% to 50% of their pay. Some employers have illegally targeted older workers for layoffs of “forced resignations” in order to reduce the amount of money the company pays for health insurance premiums.
And for older employees who are simply laid off, the economic consequences are devestating. I’ve known a number of these folks, some former colleagues in the industry, and few have been able to get new jobs at anything like their former positions. Employers simply don’t want to hire people who are going to retire within ten years anyway. Most of the work they find is contract work, without benefits, and they exhaust much of their savings on COBRA insurance premiums. By the time they reach the age where they can receive Social Security benefits, they have little else left.
Of course, the wingnut trolls here presume that they should just “get a job”, as if it could be picked like an apple from a tree.
@74
It can be.
OTOH, That happened to the fathers of a couple of buddies of mine back in the late 80’s, they discovered after reorganizing their lives and hanging out their own shingles that they were much happier living simplified lives and not working for the man.
# 67: That’s the million-dollar question, especially among those seeking Boeing jobs.
For the 787 program, it appears that novice workers with no previous aerospace experience were hired, and lots of others with previous aerospace experience – even at Boeing – simply received no reply. But those with previous aerospace experience were often hired by contractors, and worked side-by-side with Boeing workers (as long as both workers belonged to IAM, it isn’t a union issue). It seems that some of the contract workers who are in high demand at Boeing still can’t get a job with Boeing itself. This creates a bit of a culture clash between the “blue badges” (Boeing employed) and “grey badges” (contrator employed).
I have to reluctantly agree that it made sense for Boeing to hire newer, younger workers for the 787 program. The regular rounds of hiring and layoffs which are a part of the aerospace company had left Boeing with a serious “gray hair” problem – most of it’s remaining workers, protected from prior layoffs by seniority, would soon be retiring over the next decade, and taking their experience with them. Boeing needed to bring in new blood to replace them, and have them trained well in advance of the expected surge in retirements. Since everything on the 787 program was new – new materials, new proceedures, new design and manufacturing computer programs, etc. – it made sense to hire and train new workers, rather than to re-train the older workers.
But like all things on the 787 program, Boeing management completely mis-calculated how long it takes to really train a worker in aerospace. They thought they could do it in three to four months, but it takes at least a couple of years, at a minimum, to learn to do things at a minimally acceptable level of expertise.
When you are drilling holes for fasteners while lying on your back, stretching your arms twisting your drill into a location you can’t even see, and with tolerences measured in 1/1000 of an inch, experience is pretty important.
@76
Nice to see Boeing pickup up at least some of the cost of training the new folks.
That’s really what I’m getting at. There may be “jobs,” but if the people needing jobs don’t have the skills to fill them they wont be getting those jobs. The righties aren’t even willing to pay for job training, which very much is a government service and one that every 1st world country invests in.
FYI–
Steve Jobs quit college because he didn’t want to waste his parents hard earned money anymore. Jobs said it was one of his best moves. Hardly a testimonial to higher education.
Michael, I think too many colleges are preparing kids for failure & disappointment.
I heard recently that it has gotten so bad in this regard that some employers like people with a simple Liberal Arts degree so they can train them,,,rather than know-it-alls with useless Master’s Degree’s that cost $75,000 or even BA’s where what they learned is superceded by new advancements before they graduate.
That’s a good question, isn’t it.
What are our colleges preparing students for??
To be the smartest hobo hanging out at Starbucks all day trying to out-intellectualize someone in the same useless position as him/her??
@78
Bill Gates didn’t finish college either. Natalie Merchant’s a high school drop out. Steve Earle hit the road to play music with one of his uncles when he was in the 8th grade, both his new album and his new novel are fantastic.
I couldn’t agree more. That’s why I didn’t say college. I’m talking about skills training for available jobs.
@78
LOL… In the field I’ve been in for the last decade or so we run into people with MSW’s: Masters in Social Work. Which seems to mean that they’re completely useless, but think highly of themselves and want to help- as long as you listen to them and do everything their way. They’re the one with the masters degree after all!
77: I think the state paid for a good portion of the initial training of 787 employees (three months) under one of the promises it made to get the 787 program.
Currently the Aerospace Joint Apprenticeship Program is being sponsored by the state, some counties, employers, and the IAM. You can see more at http://www.ajactraining.org
I know some folks who’s kid has a really expensive BA in nursing. Which you’d think would be a fast ticket to a hot job and it is, except the kid tried being a nurse for a couple of months and then went back to pulling shots at Starbucks. She didn’t like being a nurse.
They could have figured that out at age 19 with an $800 CNA certificate.
So yes, we need colleges. But, we need job training more and first.
@81
Shit, does Boeing ever pay its own way for anything?
Hey, I knew one guy in college (a former roommate of my brother-in-law) who kept changing majors every six months. His name was George.
Changing majors wouldn’t be so bad, except that he didn’t just change majors within the department, he changed colleges within the university. He tried engineering, architecture, agriculture, and too many more for me to count. When I last heard of him, he had dropped out after six years without a degree – his father had refused to foot the bill anymore.
Anyway, I spoke to my brother in law a while back, and asked him if he had heard from George. He had, and he had finally finished school, got his degree, and was now – a teacher! “Of course!” I exclaimed, slapping my forehead. “That makes perfect sense!”. I think he probably makes a great teacher – he has a love of learning, he just doesn’t want to confine it to a single area of study.
I’m talking about skills training for available jobs.
You want fries with that?
@85
You want an CNA, RN, or radiological tech with that?
Yesterday, Bank of America blamed their new $5 debit fee on Dodd-Frank. Today, they blamed their slow website on software. BoA seems to be run by folks who can’t accept responsibility for anything.
http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_.....-customers
GOP Approves Racial Epithet
The GOP-controlled house voted against a resolution condemning the use of a racial apithet in the Perry family’s hunting camp.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....erry-ranch
Roger Rabbit Commentary: No doubt some troll will post that Rep. Jackson’s resolution was a political ploy. I don’t think so. I believe it was heartfelt. But you’d almost have to be black to understand that.
re 68: When it comes to corporate greed, it is clear that you are a victim of Stockholm Syndrome.
No matter how much you kiss the corporate ass, all you are going to end up with is a mouthfull of shit.
@88
Names on rocks, unless they’re on federal land, really aren’t the business of the house. The Perry’s are deplorable whack jobs, but I think the house just wasted a bunch of time.
I haven’t asked, but I’m pretty sure my black relations would agree with me on this. At least my nephew who shares a house with three while guys and calls their house CrackerVille would.
@57 – so why you blaming the last 3 years or 2 1/2 years on Obama? Please explain how now B is following A or in your case how F is following U, meaning FU.
when are lefty nutballs gonna dust off that old hag Cindy Sheehan and bring her to the the party?
@91
shorter gleeman: insert penis A into asshole B, using free government provided butt-lube C.
@66
thats funny…I have seem them bring in new employees by the busload at Everett for orientation over the last few months…and the badging office in Seattle is always packed with new people going thru background check…..
more of the same from RHPee…always talking out his ass and making stuff up.
ask Professor(insert laughter here) HA Darwhyle how much his anthro degree is prepping people life after college…
I mean, if you wanna be poor and get laughed at, go get an anthro degree
the only employable ones are those that can pull of a scam like he’s done with his “research”(insert more laughter here).
Mookie – you are the pot calling the kettle black. And for you knowledge I’ve worked a private job for the same company fir 23 years and make 6 digits and never ever collected a dime from the government in my life, so your accusations and thoughts are false and your arguments are empty, kind of like your brain.
PuddyRebuttal, and you don’t think corporate sponsors of the DUMMOCRAPTIC didn’t lay off peeps Roger DOPEY Rabbit? Sometimes the Rabbit DOPE really shines brightly.
Ahhh yes the “great transfer of wealth“… I wonder how many sentences I can find in this search?
@92
Hopefully never.
@99
what? cmon man, she is at least good for a few laughs and gaffs..
@100
Rush Limbaugh trying to ride a bicycle would be funny. Sheehan’s just an annoying scold.
Exactly! Spot on Gman!
@102 – I wonder if his girlfriend/wife is Michelle Bachmann, maybe Mookie is really Marcus.
@102 – I think Mookie is on here more than you and he probably posts with 50% of the profiles on here. You keep doing what you do, especially if it irritates the queen.