[NWPT48]
Mr. Michael Pieper
Executive Director
Republican Governors Association
555 11 th Street, NW, Suite 700
Washington ,D.C. 20004
(202) 662-4140
June 7, 2005
Dear Mr. Pieper,
Eat me.
No really… eat me.
Maybe you were drunk when you issued a press release asking for Governor Gregoire’s resignation. After all, you had just watched almost-member Dino Rossi getting his ass whooped by a cherry-picked judge in a conservative county… so I’m guessing beer-thirty came a little early yesterday. But whether you were drunk or just plain stupid, you know what…? This is none of your fucking business.
See, here in the other Washington, we have something we call “laws,” which are written by democratically elected legislators, not half-witted, cirrhotic PR hacks like you. And according to our laws, Christine Gregoire was duly elected governor. So rather than cynically laboring to undermine the electoral process of a state no Republican governor has called home for over twenty years, why don’t you just focus on something you’re good at… like helping your members devise new and exciting ways to deny poor children health care.
Either that, or eat me.
Respectfully yours,
David Goldstein
HorsesAss.org
[PS: eat me.]
Amen, brother.
See, here in the other Washington, we have something we call “laws,” which are written by democratically elected legislators, not half-witted, cirrhotic PR hacks like you
The press release is just weird and doesn’t make sense. It’s like it was issued on November 10th, 2004 and someone just hit the send button on the fax. Wacked.
Here here!
You have to like that the Rep Gov Assoc. waited until after Rossi had self destructed before issuing their press release.
WOW….. could you be any more insignificant if you tried? Come on Goldy….is this the best you can do?
Not being a card carrying member of the [obviously] looney left I’m not getting this whole every other word is something out of a bad junior high movie.
And you are telling them to butt out? Maybe you should tell john kerry and carla that ,huh?
I wonder why that children’s book of yours hasn’t been picked up…you are a good writer…could it be the addiction you have to just plain foul language?
You guys WON…remember? So what’s the prob???
Maybe you were drunk when you issued a press release asking for Governor Gregoire’s resignation.
I don’t see how Rossi thinks these kinds of statements will benefit him. He looked like a sore loser enough last night and now after conceding he asks Gregoire to resign. Nice…
Just wanted to wander over here to see the victory party. Goldy, Washington does have laws. Shame they cherry pick which laws to enforce.
Wow, real active site, here.
Part of the problem is that we don’t know who factually won the election. We know who is in the Governor’s mansion based on the laws in place but that’s doesn’t mean she actually won the election without help.Just because you can’t prove ballot stuffing occurred doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. OJ was guilty as hell of two murders but it couldn’t be proven. Does that mean he didn’t commit murder or the murder didn’t happen?
The incompetence of Dean Logan and Ron Sims should be a crime. It’s clear even the judge has no respect for King County and the way the election was managed. If Sims were running any publicly traded company they would have his head on a platter for his performance but when the fox is running the political hen house we should expect things to happen as they did.
Only a fool would believe Gregoire would have given up if the roles were reversed even though the judge set the bar so high at the outset it was already a forgone decision what would likely happen. You really expect anyone with intelligence to conclude Gregoire would have walked away without going to trial once Bridges set the bar?
I guess we can’t fault elected officials for our election laws. Who would figure people like Dean Logan and Ron Sims would be in position of power to directly influence the results of an election or place such a cloud over one that half the people in the state feel robbed of their vote.
Goldy–
Your head has been spinning around so fast in all your glee and self-importance….did it ever dawn on you that there may be something you have missed????
You assessed the multi-faceted aspects of this contest but for some reason have been obsessed with being “right” on the legal front.
Best Wishes!!
Well put.
Hey Goldy… EAT ME!
You came off as a 21 yr old with a poor understanding of the english laguage and more animosity than brains, but hey maybe that was what you were aiming for (doubt it).
David
Think about what you just said. Can you prove that there was no ballot stuffing? I can prove there was. I just can’t prove what the ballot said. When the dead walk into a poll place that is enough proof to me that something illegal was happening.
When there are more ballots than voters. That proves something is fishy.
If KC can not account for votes cast and they Fake the numbers that is fraud.
It is state law that prevents a good Judge from overturning the election. HE is an example of a Great Judge. He follows the law and does not legislate from the bench. Not like the State Supreme Court in this state. I may not like the ruling yet I respect him for the integrity of his Office and His own integrity. He was picked to allow an honest evaluation of the election. Did he not show his feelings about KC elections. He did rule that there were over 1500 illegal votes cast. If the were illegal More than likely it was Democratic votes. He could not throw out the election but he did make certain one thing was clear. KC had better clean up its act.
Now that this court case is over. WHat will happen if the Feds start investigating? They have been doing that for months in Wisconsin. And it looks like they did the same thing as what happened here. Can you not expect the same treatment now in WA State. Until now they could not get involved. But illegalities in a Federal Election can bring a lot of heat to KC. I hope they do put their feet to the fire. As Ron Sims Said “This is a model election that any bank would envy.” I would like to see him eat those words.
Goldy: You were far too kind to the Republican Governor’s Association. If the media report is true, the timing of that press release was completely idiotic and the premise completely asinine. However, I ask…did they really issue it? They aren’t claiming it so far. what do you bet they’ll never claim ownership and will never put it on their website? They aren’t claiming it so far, and I think they’ave alraady been informed of the complete silliness of it. I’ll be surprised if they ever acknowledge they issued that press release. Marilyn
Goldy,
Why do you get all up tight when someone makes a factual statement based on the evidence presented at trial. The judge concluded based on the evidence that at least 1,678 votes cast were illegal. Based on this fact Mr. Pieper rightly concludes “We now have a court decision declaring 1,678 votes cast in the election as illegal. Because this overwhelming number of illegal votes far surpasses the 129-vote margin of Mrs. Gregoire’s victory, I encourage her to do her part in re-establishing the legitimacy of the governorship of Washington by resigning and calling for a new election in November.”
He further goes on to say, “Without a means to determine for whom the illegal votes were cast, the voters of Washington state will never know who truly won and should be given the opportunity to participate in a new election.”
His statement sure makes a lot more sense than your “EAT ME” statement. I’m sure you were probably just in a hurry to get to the Ale house to slam a few brews. Maybe your brain will allow you to think more logically with a hangover.
Outboard @13: “if they were illegal more than likely it was democratic votes”: By what twisted logic? Why do you so assume that illegal votes were more than likely Democratic votes? I think they were rossi’s votes. KC’s errors, and the error in the other counties hurt Gregoire. Yeah, I agree, Ron Sims has a lot to answer for. However, in my estimation, the illegal votes are what gave Rossi his intial “win” of 260 votes. You remember don’t you? His 260 landslide? You remember don’t you, when he told Gregoire to concede? and then again when his “win” was at 42 votes? Golly, he just knew who won then, didn’t he? Gregoire was supposed to concede then, wasn’t she? All the votes were pure then, weren’t they? You remember, don’t you, when rossi asked Gregoire to concede at 42 votes? 42 votes was victory enough for him then…but at the handcount when she pulled ahead, then…those numbers weren’t good enough and the count wasn’t pure enough. Get over your wet dream that Rossi “won” (twice, yet). He’s a two-time loser now.
Marilyn
Dave, get a grip. You need to purge yourself of the propaganda you’ve been fed (and which you have swallowed whole, it seems).
“Just because [we] can’t prove ballot stuffing occurred doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.”
Actually, because the Republicans couldn’t come up with a shred of evidence that ballot stuffing occurred, and then had to face reality when experts testified that supposedly suspicious discrepancies were actually innocuous, and that ballot stuffing as alleged would have been impossibly difficult, their claims were completely tossed out by an impartial judge. I don’t think the R’s have been holding back any evidence of “ballot stuffing”—there just isn’t any.
You might as well add that just because you can’t prove the moon landings were faked doesn’t mean they weren’t.
More to Dave @ 8:
“You really expect anyone with intelligence to conclude Gregoire would have walked away without going to trial”?
Yes. People with intelligence took her at her word when she said she’d abide by the final hand count, because she has credibility (unlike, say, the Republican party and its legal case).
“Who would figure people like Dean Logan and Ron Sims would be in position of power to directly influence the results of an election…”
They didn’t.
“…or place such a cloud over one that half the people in the state feel robbed of their vote.”
Again, Dave, you’ve drunk the Kool-Aid . . . without realizing it was spiked with hallucinogens. Only the hard-core Republican partisans feel “robbed of their vote,” and that’s in spite of the fact that this election was so close that every vote really counted! You lost, too bad, so sad. Quit with the sour grapes. Maybe you could have motivated 134 people who thought “my vote doesn’t matter anyway” to vote, and to vote for Rossi. Maybe next time.
potty mouth…goldy.. cal us when you learn some manners
wrong@ 18 – Uhm… in case you didn’t notice you are on his site. Come back when you figure this out.
Outboard @ 13:
“David”
No, no, I’m David. He’s “Dave”.
“I can prove there was [ballot stuffing]. I just can’t prove what the ballot said.”
Funny, the well-financed Republican party and its lawyers couldn’t prove that. If only they’d had you at their table.
“When the dead walk into a poll place that is enough proof to me that something illegal was happening.”
Yeah, it tends to show that people are voting on behalf of their recently deceased spouses (mostly for Rossi, it turned out), or that when two people in a household had the same name, and one died, the elections office took the wrong person off the rolls. If that’s what you call “ballot stuffing,” you need to re-think your vocabulary.
“When there are more ballots than voters. That proves something is fishy.”
Well, it proves that the count of voters was wrong, as we already know. If you’re not going to actually count the number of absentee envelopes and compare that to the number of ballots, it proves you aren’t serious.
“If KC can not account for votes cast and they Fake the numbers that is fraud.”
No, what happened was not fraud. Making an estimate based on the best numbers you have available isn’t fraud. Not telling your bosses about the uncertainty is poor judgment, but not fraud. And this is all making a mountain out of a molehill anyway, because it didn’t affect the vote at all. (and see above re: counting if you’re serious.)
“HE is an example of a Great Judge. He follows the law and does not legislate from the bench.”
Certainly a good judge.
“Not like the State Supreme Court in this state.”
You’re nuts! What do you base this on, other than a petulant remark from Rossi? Our Supreme Court is actually very well-respected, contains mostly solid jurists, and is not partisan or activist.
“I may not like the ruling yet I respect him for the integrity of his Office and His own integrity. He was picked to allow an honest evaluation of the election.”
I respect you for respecting him.
“Did he not show his feelings about KC elections.”
Yup.
“He did rule that there were over 1500 illegal votes cast.”
Yup.
“If the were illegal More than likely it was Democratic votes.”
Nope. If you do a proportional analysis based on the known felon votes, 80% of the illegal votes were for the Republican candidate! (mmm, extrapolation.)
“He could not throw out the election but he did make certain one thing was clear. KC had better clean up its act.”
Sure enough. (and the other counties, too.)
I’m sure the RGA asked Bush to step down after the 2000 election, right?
Thanks for the laugh, Goldy.
Goldy: You came off as a huge winner who had a bit of a bag on and could have been a mite peckish as well. As for you Reps.,”Eat me raw!”
Just like the Republicans, they are acting like their is no limit to how they will get in office.
This is great. It even makes the loooser whiner republicans look worse!
Thanks Scott, now go back to your table and finish your beer.
(Hiccup)
To answer your question About the Dead. It was stated in court that it took place and proved to be one of the illegal votes. Read the court Case. BUt if one dead person voted in a Heavily Democratic Precinct How many more People had their votes cast for them. Prove to me that it didnt happen. You can only see a small portion of an Iceberg. The election talked about only what could be seen. If I went in and claimed to be joe smith. I dont have to show an ID so I get to vote for joe smith. You have to take my word for that statement. I have seen similar things when I voted. People I didnt know that claimed to be people in my neighborhood. I thought I knew everyone but I can be mistaken. Yet doubt steps in because I knew most of my neighbors at least by sight. Reports that could not be proven in a court a law is that MOVEON.ORG in the get out the vote may have voted for some of the people. Maybe we should do some signature matching in the precincts to the signatures on record. I wonder what that would have shown. It is just guesses. But I leave it to the feds to figure out what is happening. They will have plenty of practice after WIsconsin. SInce MOVEON.Org is being investigated for voter fraud there. Maybe they did it here too.
CHicago is a prime example of VOter Fraud run by the Democratic Machine. Even today they control what happens. I met a lot of Republicans from CHicago they gave up voting because of the corruption.
Any party that is in power for a long period of time can be corrupted by being in power. And maintaining that power. Why does the legislature ignore the voters wishes. Because they want to maintain power. WHy did the legislature not say Picture ID required to vote? Because it is run by the Democrats and they dont want that law? COuld it be they know the system is corrupt and will do everything to prevent easy reform to Voting procedures. Show a picture ID to prove you are who you say you are How hard is that. Or is an honest Election not an option. WHy do you think the legislature said we should move to mail in ballots only. The one thing KC proved they falisfied the records for. That is the system they want because they can control the votes. Because we know KC can not count the ballots accurately. THink about it. Everything that was wrong in KC is the things the Legislature made into law. Including not needing to keep track of the number of votes mailed in. Yes KC is corrupt and the Democratic Legislature made it easier to conduct fraud. There was not voting reform just make it easier to control the votes. YOu get the government you vote for unless you agree that we have to win at all costs. I will respect an honest election I do not think KC handling of this election was an honest one. THey tried to hide the problems. We only saw the tip of the issues. How many more problems did they succeed in hiding. If you lie once or twice you are a liar. KC proved they could not tell the truth. No integrity in the system because of thier actions. Think of it if all these issues were brought up and attempts to fix the problems were made then there would not have been a trial. KC brought it on themselves by thier own coverups. THat is why I hope the FEDS will investigate. I want to see some of these officials in Jail for Fraud. It will not remove the Govenor but it may force KC to have system that works and is open in the next election. People are watching now. More eyes on the process. Maybe even more things will show up. You have an honest election or you have a Communist\SOcialist\Dictorship election. They win by 99% because they control the votes.
This move by the RGA makes no sense to me, especially today. What the heck is the point? I could of maybe understood it earlier this year, but to come out the day after this ruling is stupid, stupid, stupid.
I too, however, find it interesting that there is no mention of this on the RGA website (as of now), and the only hit on Yahoo news is from the PR Newswire, which is infamous for bogus releases. Before everybody jumps all over me, I’m not saying this is a false release, as I will be the first to admit R’s can be pretty thickheaded at times, but you’d think this would be getting more coverage. We should find out more tomorrow.
Correction for myself @ 26: I did some more looking at the USNewswire site, and did see other release from the RGA that were legit, so it does look like a legit release.
Boy, they are truly stupid.
Hey Marilyn why don t you eat Goldy
Hey David
Just stumbled upon your site – looking up Rossi. I thought I’d fall off my computer chair laughing. : ) It is SO refreshing to see someone ‘tell it like it is’. I hope you won’t mind that I posted part of your comments on Democracy for America. They needed it! Thanks ! and I’ll be back.
Doc
Goldy, did you really send the letter to Michael Pieper? His fax number and e-mail are on the RGA website.
Pieper’s press release is a bit stupid, to say the least. Takes away from the legitimate concerns about the election and makes him look like a sore loser.
Looks like your readership poll is accurately predicting the winner of the election contest lawsuit, with a clear lead to the GOP law firm of Davis Wright Tremaine. I am hearing that they charged the GOP over $3 million for legal fees for the election contest lawsuit.
Too bad the state GOP and legal team rejected my advice to them back in late December, when the surplus of ballots over voters issue was first coming up. It would have probably cost less than $100,000, and certainly not more than $200,000, to copy the ballot envelopes, enter them into a new database, sort the listing by precinct, cross-reference against the voter crediting database, etc.
That way, the GOP could have proven with reasonable certainly as to whether or not there really were 1,091 or so (875 absentee plus 216 poll/provisional extras) more ballots than identified (both legal and illegal) voters.
Instead, Judge Bridges simply wasn’t convinced of any voterless ballots — since the only evidence the state GOP introduced was King County’s own unreliable records.
Thank God this $100,000 or $200,000 was instead made available for Davis Wright’s legal fees. They were the true winners here, and this unwise allocation of resources shot any chance the GOP had to prevail in the election contest lawsuit.
David, just fyi – there’s a liberal Dave here as well. That’s me. So the other is outnumbered 2-1!
Danny @ 6
Which nut house did you wander over here from? Despite $2,000,000 worth of cherry picking, the laws got enforced. Better luck next time, Danny boy.
Dave @ 8
Just because you can’t prove you’re smart doesn’t mean you’re not stupid.
By the way, taking depositions of illegal voters is a tried, true and accepted method of determining how they cast their ballots.
Remember that Texas legislature contest? When Democrat Hubert Vo beat Republican incumbent Talmadge Heflin by only 33 votes in state house district 149? Heflin filed an election contest action, since he alleged that 259 people were improperly registered in that state house district and voted in the November 2004 election.
Anyway, under the Texas Constitution, each respective house of the legislature judges their own election. The state house, just like the state senate, is heavily dominated by Republicans. The GOP house leadership appointed an election contest committee, and a senior GOP legislator was appointed “master of discovery” to basically try the case and make recommendations.
In any event, the GOP leadership ruled that it would be necessary to prove how each illegal voter voted in order to deduct votes from anyone’s totals. So depositions were taken of most of the illegal voters. Findings were made as to whether the illegal voter’s testimony was credible.
The bottom line? Democrat Vo received more illegal votes than did Republican Heflin. But not enough net illegal votes to change the result of the election. The election contest was denied.
By the way, the “master of discovery” report was issued on February 7, 2005. There would have been plenty of time for the state GOP here to take depositions of the illegal felon voters.
http://texasweekly.com/documen.....Report.pdf
It wouldn’t have cost that much — maybe $100 per voter at most for a five or ten minute deposition (including the court reporter, transcript preparation, and lawyer fees). The state GOP could have at least identified 200 or 300 of the illegal voters who probably voted for Gregoire and taken THEIR depositions at least.
What can I say?
Stefan Sharkansky is urging Republicans to vote illegally. He said, “Let everybody who voted for Dino Rossi in November re-register to vote giving the King County Administration Building as their residence. We can then all vote in this year’s elections for both a Republican to unseat Larry Phillips, giving the council a 5-4 Republican majority, and also for a Republican to replace King County Executive Ron Sims. … Tell all your friends in other states and countries ….” http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/003494.html
To cover his ass Stefan says, “Of course it was all tongue-in-cheek.” But then he gives himself away when he says, “if individuals acting on their own in an uncoordinated fashion implemented … it would be impossible for anybody to do anything about it.” http://www.soundpolitics.com/
Good job, Stefan! The R’s couldn’t prove the D’s did anything illegal, so you tell R’s to get even by voting illegally.
righton @ 18
“potty mouth…goldy.. cal us when you learn some manners”
Don’t like it? Then SCRAM! Punk!
Aha! The new fellow should choose a new screen name to avoid confusion. Or you two could just roshambo (rock-paper-scissors) for it.
Richard Pope @ 33,
You are too smart and analytical to call yourself a Republican. Perhaps we could convince you to switch? Would buying you a beer help? :-)
Wingnut Dave @ 13
Why do you get all up tight when someone makes a factual statement based on the evidence presented at trial. The judge concluded based on the evidence that at least 1,678 votes cast were illegal. Based on this fact Mr. Pieper rightly concludes “We now have a court decision declaring 1,678 votes cast in the election as illegal. Because this overwhelming number of illegal votes far surpasses the 129-vote margin of Mrs. Gregoire’s victory, I encourage her to do her part . . . “
Sorry, Wingnut Dave, this is factually untrue. Judge Bridges stated in his decision that IF he accepted the proportional analysis, Gregoire would still be the winner. During the trial, Professor Handcock clearly showed that Gregoire prevailed, and this is even true if we assume illegal voters were more inclined to support Gregoire. Why? It is because the votes came from all over the state—about half from Rossi precincts and half from Gregoire precincts. The illegal votes nearly cancel each other out.
In other words, Gregoire actually did get the most votes, after adjusting the vote totals for the illegal ballots identified by both parties.
The bottom line is that the RGA’s press release is factually wrong (or subjectively, dishonest).
God Bless the USA!
… and Washington State.
Donnageddon
“See, here in the other Washington, we have something we call “laws,” which are written by democratically elected legislators,…”
You can’t have democratically elected legislators when you have no system for conducting a fair election. When the judge with the cute earring said the falsified ballot reports, the dead votes, the felon votes, the extra votes with no voters and and the provisional ballots incorrectly run through accuvote were OK by him since there is no law to regulate the flaw, it indicates an environment that should be a concern for all. Not a decision to celebrate.
Remember, the pendulum always swings back and it may not be so enjoyable to wirness when the roles are reversed.
Richard Pope–
Do you really believe for a second that Bridges would have allowed the R’s to “cherry-pick” for depositions from ILLEGAL voters for Gregoire and this election would have been overturned by that evidence???
And do you really believe State Supreme Court would have upheld that result???
With the State Supreme Court make-up of 6-3 or 6-2-1 LEFTIST, do you really believe Rossi ever had a chance of overturning this election result?
Monday morning QB’ing is fun and allowable…but that’s all it is. I do agree with you that copying the absentee envelopes would have put Bridges in a difficult situation. He wold have probably bought some KingCo excuse that some people returned absentees directly to the polls LIKE THEY ALWAYS HAVE or some other sorry ass excuse like WE ALWAYS FUCK UP…it’s just part of elections.
I’m still waiting for the LEFTIST PINHEADS to “fix” the problems. Something tells me is it will be less likely than Jesus returning in our lifetimes!!
The R’s would have been dollars ahead just to pay felons $1000 for their “I voted for Gregoire” depositions and $1000 for those who voted for Rossi to take the 5th!!!!!
Goldy and DJ
Just confirming you all are the party of profanity and immorality. Do you really think America should be a land where political discourse is summed up by “bite me”. Why not try the high road; mimic some famous real democrats of old.
Legacy of 60s leaves you all as foul mouthed, cynical, mean, angry self absorbed latte lovers.
GOLDY. Undoubtably, your letter issued the truth up from your silver tongue and spooned it to the not so sacred cow with your golden twist of wit and humor. I loved it!
Just because you can’t prove you’re smart doesn’t mean you’re not stupid.
First sign: willingly chosing the name “Pattycakes”
righton@45. About those latte lovers and the 60s, read the book called “The Velveteen Rabbit” and you will better understand about being real and what makes people real. Good reading also for those who do not comprehend the differance between wearing a moral sect label like it is some kind of badge that gets you into glory where you get crowned with pearls and rubies; whereever the hell that is located. Maybe it is in Neverland where Whacko Jacko is God.
We’re mimicing Nixon behind closed doors. That’s really how he lost the white house. The moral majority found out he had a potty mouth. I’m not kidding!
right on at 45:
Just confirming you all are the party of profanity and immorality. Do you really think America should be a land where political discourse is summed up by “bite me”.
Wasn’t it your very own Dick Cheney who dropped an f-bomb?
Get off your high horse (or just get off Horses Ass)
Notsorighton@45. Since when has political discourse been reserved for the holier-than-thou? Read your history books, At one point, the term “Shut Up” was the worst word that could be spoken by a professing moralist’s children. Today, saying, “shut the fuck up” is just another phrase in a phase. Hypocrites are welcome to the real world also; try it sometime.
Mr. I. @ 43
“Do you really believe for a second that Bridges would have allowed the R’s to “cherry-pick” for depositions from ILLEGAL voters for Gregoire and this election would have been overturned by that evidence???”
One thing cleared up in this case is that you can cherry pick illegal votes and present them to the court (at least 3 days before the trial). If there is clear and convincing evidence of who they voted for, their votes will be thrown out. Cherry picking (with evidence of voter choice) is permitted under RCW, and Bridges upheld it. (Bridges threw out using statistical methods with cherry-picked votes because the science breaks down.)
I have no idea how the Dems found the 4 Rossi and 1 Bennett voters for whom they provided vote choice evidence (perhaps through public records of donations). In any case, over the last 30 years, social scientists have gotten quite good at doing surveys for investigating illegal or underground behavior, without forcing people to admit to the behavior. The Rs and Ds should have gotten a good sociologist or other person specializing in survey methods involved. Information from the survey would then need to be supplemented by other evidence (affidavits, party donations, party membership, yard signs, bumper stickers, etc.).
“And do you really believe State Supreme Court would have upheld that result???”
Given C&C evidence of vote choice for a batch of illegal votes, I do believe the SSC would uphold such a decision. From a non-lawyer’s view the RCW seems pretty clear on this front.
“I do agree with you that copying the absentee envelopes would have put Bridges in a difficult situation. “
A positive discrepancy after going through the envelopes would be useful evidence for putting together a fraud case. With any luck absentee ballots, polling place ballots, and provisional ballots will all be distinct, or it will be impossible to feed absentee and provisional ballots through machines at the polling places.
A most important change for fixing problems had by a number of counties is to get a fully working version of the DIMS software.
They should start by renaming it!
righton @ 45
“Why not try the high road; mimic some famous real democrats of old.”
Or, better yet, some famous neocons? See:
http://www.horsesass.org/my-co.....ment-30249
dj@51. As I recall the Seattle newspaper carried the story about some felons saying they voted for Rossi. Appears this occured due to some minor investigative process carried out by news media. I am not certain that their ballots were confiscated or offered up to verify these claims. Somehow or however, it did arise to the surface once again during trial. Not sure this solves the mystery surrounding these votes but may be a hint to what came forth.
I still don’t see this press release on the RGA website … or on The Onion website.
But here’s a fun flashback to Rossi’s May 18 RGA DC HQ fundraising trip: “Mr. Rossi said he is sure that a state court — in a civil trial scheduled to start Monday — will decide his way. Either way, an appeal will go directly to the state Supreme Court, said Mark Braden, Rossi campaign counsel, and Charlie Spies, RGA general counsel.” (WashTimes)
RonK,Seattle@54. re flashback. Sounds a bit close to the old Indian philosopy; Repers speaking with forked tongue. :-)
More outreach from the party of idea’s and dialoge. Way to bring people together H.Ass.
Your intellect and power of influence sure did convince me.
Chee: The Seattle Slimes had more felons in their sample 50.3 % who voted for Gregoire to 37% who voted for Rossi and a few for the other lady. Don’t call me a liar, I posted the real numbers two weeks ago directly from the Seattle Slimes and no HA person cried foul.
I too look at it like Richard Pope. Why didn’t we ask for all the envelopes? Even though many were missing we still could have copied them. I did speculate that was the reason, missing envelopes would possibly sink their case. I hate to admit it, but the Dem lawyers made a more compelling case than the Republicans. The Repub lawyers should have looked at the case from every aspect, which the Dem lawyers did. When they submitted the affidavits of the felons on Friday, I knew something was up. Clear and compelling evidence beats hot air and speculation. I disagree with Goldy’s view of the closing arguments. The judge did agree that 1678 illegal votes were cast. You guys did it right, sorry to say. Oh crap, did I just write that?
Pudster
Reply to 27
“Prove to me it didn’t happen.”
Prove to me you aren’t a jackass.
Remember, the pendulum always swings back and it may not be so enjoyable to wirness when the roles are reversed.
so true, so true… But if you’d been paying attention, you would have seen that this was probably the far right end of the arc as far as Washington goes~
I tend to think that the Reps nationwide have peaked, and with the abyss staring at them they’re starting to get desperate.
@27
also: “Prove to me it did happen”
burdon of proof my ‘friend’.
righton at 45: Oooh, the dreaded “latte lovers” smackdown. You have cut us all to the quick. How can we go on?
Jackass @ 27
“If I went in and claimed to be joe smith. I dont have to show an ID so I get to vote for joe smith. You have to take my word for that statement.”
And then joe smith shows up and the poll workers tell him he’s already voted. Joe smith dispute that with the poll workers in front of witnesses, and contacts the news media, or the candidate he wanted to vote for. Question for ya bud: how many joe smiths came forward after this election to complain that someone else voted in their name? Answer: NONE, zero, zip, nada, you stupid jackass!! If this had actually happened don’t ya think the Repubs would have made an issue of it in the media and court? My mistake, jackasses don’t think, they just bray.
“I have seen similar things when I voted. People I didnt know that claimed to be people in my neighborhood.”
If you didn’t know them, how would you know they weren’t people in your neighborhood? Gawd you are one dumb braying jackass.
Comment on 40
Does Wingnut Dave’s analysis mean that if there were more than 527 illegal votes in Florida, Bush wasn’t elected President? It would appear so.
The funeral is over. Kuna-Ma-Ta-Ta!
Reply to 42
The judge didn’t say the illegal votes, dead votes, etc. were “OK,” dumb shit. He said the Repubs failed to prove those ballots contained a vote for governor (there WERE other races on the ballot — remember??), much less prove who the illegal votes were for, AS THE LAW REQUIRES. The judge followed the law, get it dummy? And what the fuck does the judge’s earring have to do with anything besides your paranoid fantasies?
Hippie and commies and degenerates
What is good and great about swearing? Its not just language, anymore than peppering a conversationg w/ racial slurs is just using words.
If you have a desire to broaden your popularity past the Zoo (eastlake that is) or Pike, you might reflect back on Scoop, or FDR or JFK etc.
Yeah they cussed, and fooled around, and yeah Cheney did too. But none think that should be the norm. A little hypocrisy is better for the republic than climging into the gutter. You want TV to be porn, broadcast to be swear words, magazines at the grocery to be x rated, …
Wouldn’t a idylic republic include clean language?
Mr. Irrelevant @ 43
I’m glad to see there’s at least one wingnut Republican out there who isn’t expecting Jesus to return in our lifetime. The rest of ’em are expecting the Rapture any moment now. I wish. I wish it WOULD occur. We wouldn’t get rid of all of ’em, but we’d be rid of 144,000 of ’em. (Since the Bible says only 144,000 souls will ascend to Heaven in the Rapture, presumably the rest of ’em will go to Hell.)
Mr. Irrelevant @ 44
Too bad you didn’t make that suggestion back when you were turning the crank on your washing machine and “processing” the L & I taxes that paid for the Wenatchee Nonsense.
to me @ 61,
Its spelled “Burden”, dumbass!
Wrongo @ 45
In reply to your question, yes, given the depths to which Republicans have lowered the political discourse in this country. You know — “commie libs,” “liberals hate America,” “liberals are traitors,” etc.
When you finish eating Goldy, you can bite me too, you unpatriotic anti-American piece of shit!
48
What ARE you thinking, Chee? When did a Republican ever read a book? Even “Dick and Jane?”
Puddybud@58. Jesus got it right when he said, “Let the dead bury the dead.” The Demos let the Right brothers bury themselves and they did. Right you are Pudster.
Additions to 53
Item #1 – “Fuck Saddam. We’re taking him out.” — George W. Bush, March 2002, as reported in Time.
Item # 2 – “You no-good fucking son of a bitch, I will never fucking forget what you wrote.” — George W. Bush, 1987, to journalist Al Hunt in presence of Hunt’s 4-year old daughter.
Reply to 57
Why would Democrats want to “bring together” a bunch of lying, corrupt, immoral loonies from outer space? We want to send you back to the planet you came from.
Reply to 58
“Clear and compelling evidence beats hot air and speculation.”
Nice job of summing up the trial, Pud-butts!
Do you serious believe that after (1) hiring one of the Northwest’s largest, most expensive, and most competent law firms, and (2) spending over $2 million on their legal claims, the Repubs wouldn’t have turned up and presented in court any evidence to bolster their case — if there was any?
The problem, Putty Between Ears, is the Repubs didn’t have a case to begin with, and were blowing gas all along.
60
The pendulum has swung back, and is whacking the GOP in their collective butts, as demonstrated by Bush’s latest approval ratings (which are dropping faster than a penny stock after MSM reported the company doesn’t exist, has no sales, and the CEO took the stockholders’ money to a Caribbean island that doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the U.S.).
The next pendulum to swing back and smack the Republicans in the ass will be the 2006 congressional elections. Latest poll shows 47% voting for D’s, 40% for R’s. Could be a 100-seat pickup in the House for the D’s, maybe 10 or 15 in the Senate.
Priscilla@70. Oh yes, those simple-minded childhood picture books that cut the fat down to the level of see Dick and Jane and see Dick and Jane run. Okay, try this on for size. See Rossi run.
Pudster @ 58
Good post, Puddy!
“The Seattle Slimes had more felons in their sample 50.3 % who voted for Gregoire to 37% who voted for Rossi and a few for the other lady.”
The Times article provides some interesting evidence about felon voting behavior. I believe the numbers were 25 who voted for Gregoire and the 18 who voted for Rossi. I am not certain about this, but I suspect most of these came from KC.
In KC, the vote split between Gregoire and Rossi as: 59.0% to 41.0%
The Seattle Times found felon voters voted as: 58.1% to 41.9%
This certainly makes it look like felon voters vote in the same proportion as those around them! But, because there are only 43 felon voters total, we need to compute confidence intervals around these expected values to account for sampling error.
To estimate sampling error, we will have to make the assumption that the Seattle Times voters are a random sample of the felon votes in KC. This assumption is unlikely since the GOP hit the most pro-Gregoire precincts of KC. Even so, lets assume a random sample and compute the confidence intervals anyway.
The 95% confidence interval around the probability of a felon voting for Gregoire in King County is 44.4% to 73.0%.
We can speculate on the effects of having a non-random sample. My guess is that the true proportion of Gregoire votes in the precincts from which these felons were drawn is higher than the average proportion in KC. If so, then the proportion Gregoire votes observed in the felon voter is a little on the low side. This suggests that felon voters have a tendency to be more pro-Rossi. But, the numbers are simply too small and the sampling method is too uncertain for us to draw any firm conclusions.
Priscilla, you make great points at times, then you as some of us use to say on the east coast “step on your dick” with other commentary you add. Please stay away from quoting the Bible, it doesn’t make your argument work.
The Bible does not say that Jesus will only redeem the 144,000. The Bible does not say there is a Rapture. Please “Study to show yourself approved under God”. How do you explain Revelation 7:9 which says: “After this I beheld (the 12,000 from the 12 tribes), and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands.”
I don’t even know where to start to disprove the Rapture. You misquoted much of Paul’s writings and sayings. Try again Priscilla. Are you the sister of donnageddon?
http://www.showmenews.com/2005.....ews006.asp “Americans are far more likely to consider religion central to their lives and to support giving clergy a say in public policy than people in nine countries that are close allies, according to an AP-Ipsos poll.” Now there are other aspects of the poll asked about so please read the Poll.
Pudster
Checking Sound Politics this morning, I see Stefan Sharkansky is advocating the murder of Seattleites. Is this payback for the Rossi election debacle?
Of course, SS (where have we seen these initials before?) didn’t couch it in that language. He said,
“No New Gas Tax
“Initiative 912, the No New Gas Tax initiative has cleared the hurdles and the petitions are now available for collecting signatures! The campaign has until July 8 to collect 225,000 valid signatures. Details on obtaining petitions, here
“Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at 04:43 PM”
But that is what he meant. How could he mean anything else? Surely he knows what will happen when the Alaska Way Viaduct collapses — a whole bunch of Seattle drivers will be squashed! SS (where have we seen these initials before?) doesn’t seem to care very much whether the dead are D’s or R’s; having done his own statistical analysis, he probably figures dead D’s will outnumber dead R’s by at least 3-to-1, which he hopes will produce a net gain for the R’s in the 2008 governor’s election.
Of course, he could achieve the same result without killing anybody if he just told the Bellevue Republicans to bother to vote. It appears (where have we seen this word before?) he didn’t think of that.
Revisiting a different topic, after all of Washington’s Republican voters have re-registered in Precinct 1823 per Stefan’s exhortation, the Democrats should have no difficulty carrying eastern Washington and the rest of the state, and for the first time, all of our state’s congressmen, state reps, and county commissioners will be Democrats. When there are no Republicans left in any of the state’s other precincts, all we will need is 1 Democratic voter in each precinct, and we already have that as an analysis of the last election will show. The R’s will carry Precinct 1823, but nothing else.
It appears (where have we seen this word before?) SS (where have we seen these initials before?) hasn’t thought through his Plan B, either.
dj@78. Shit oh dear dude. Are you saying those hard cores, mostly the oink oink oink male types would vote for a nere lowly woman for their governor, especially one whose past job performance included seeing to their conviction. That should be figured in and might dilute the pot, altering the guessing game and numbers somewhat. My deepest apology to unknown hard cores that are not control freaks and woman haters, that is if my broad statement you find offensive.
Goldy
Remember when your good buddy Tim got caught lying (thougth you might)? Right around that time there was a quote from Ron Sims that started “When I lie…” Would you have a copy of that in your archives. I’d like to get my hands on it.
Thanks in advance for helping spread the truth.
PS Erik @5 – Why would you think Rossi had something to do with a statement attributed from an organization for which he does not belong? Last I heard Rossi wasn’t a republican Gov. and therefore not affiliated with the organization.
correction….sorry dj, meant post 82 for 79. Keep up the good work, dirty job but someone has to do it.
Mr. Irrelevant@9
You assessed the multi-faceted aspects of this contest but for some reason have been obsessed with being “right” on the legal front.
where to start w/that one… Nice to know there’s no obsessing going on at SP.
Oh yah, Goldy was right.
PS: eat me.
Reply to 80
Of course the Bible doesn’t say that. The Bible doesn’t say a lot of the other stuff the theo-cons come up with, either. That’s the fucking point, dolt!
Pattycakes; and the hits go on and on…
Good mix of accusing Shark of desiring murder and being a Nazi at the same time…
Have you no shame?
I call him Stefan Sharansky. I think he added the K himself.
The new fellow should choose a new screen name to avoid confusion. Or you two could just roshambo (rock-paper-scissors) for it.
Ahhh South Park. I love it! Actually though, I’ve decided to do my best to avoid future confusion with Wingnut Dave. =)
I see the SS Murderer is criticizing MSM today. I have a suggestion for you Stefan, instead of muttering to yourself on your own blog, write your complaints here -> [].
Puccy@80:
“try again Priscilla. Are you the siter of donnageddon?”
Actually, I think that’s supposed to be me. In another thread, I ferget who, someone intimated that Donnageddon and I are not only sisters, but twin sisters. I’m delighted. Marilyn
Priscilla: You said “(Since the Bible says only 144,000 souls will ascend to Heaven in the Rapture, presumably the rest of ‘em will go to Hell.)” Looks line a credible comment to me. Where did you say you were going sarcastic? Oh, I see when caught you go sarcastic. My bad. So from now on I can ignore your stoopid rants? Naah, not when they be wrong!
Priscilla: You said: “Does Wingnut Dave’s analysis mean that if there were more than 527 illegal votes in Florida, Bush wasn’t elected President? It would appear so.” First they would have to ascribed to Bush, per arguments above and other threads. Second, what part of Al Gore losing Tennessee did you miss in the 2000 election? :P AL GORE WAS REJECTED BY HIS HOME STATE! :P Get over Florida :( will you? Al Gore was rejected by his home, Tennessee. Are you telling me that Tennesseeans are stoopid? No, they must have known something about Al that the rest of the US needs to know. Maybe “He betrayed our State” to paraphrase a 2004 Al Gore rant at MoveOn.Org NYC meeting.
My 2 Cents: The Left loves to ascribe guilt by association. If one says it then it’s got to be true about all of us. Well lefties, Howard Dean yesterday in SF at donnageddon’s favorite haunt, said about Repubs paraphrasing:”We be da party of de white christians”. I am still waiting for the HA lefties to disassociate themselves from that comment. The main democratic party is supporting him so far. Even Biden and Edwards have said nary a peep! So pox on your house.
DJ: Did the Slimes take their small sample from the same precincts the Repubs did? If so, then I’d agree with your confidence level, otherwise I would question them. Good statistical analysis.
To refute the comments by you HAs that the felons voted for Rossi, here is part of the Slimes article: “More than a decade after his last conviction for forgery, Michael Matthews was trying to contribute to civic life by voting, he said. He said he has long since kicked his cocaine habit and serves as the leader of street ministry in his Tacoma church. He and his wife went together to the Pierce County elections office to register to vote last year.
Learning his vote for Gov. Christine Gregoire was illegal “blew me away,” he said.
“I really didn’t know that. I thought everything was legit.”
Savy Hem, a Cambodian immigrant who voted for Rossi, said King County kept sending him ballots in the mail after his 1994 extortion conviction. “They don’t want me to vote, I won’t vote. I won’t say nothing. No problem.”
Chuck Nelson, a Gregoire voter, is a convicted felon who has paid his “debt to society,” he said, for his 1998 drug-possession charge. Reached through his mother, he said if felons can pay taxes, they should be able to vote.”
“But, but, but all felons voted for Rossi”, close to what Berendt said some time ago! I don’t expect to see an apology to us right thinking types but hypocrisy does reside on your side too.
Pudster
Hey DJ: Do you see the comedy in the Slimes article? The forger voted Repub, and the drug addicts (King & Pierce Counties) voted for Gregoire? Hmmm…?
Pudster
GOLDY? WHY DO YOU KEEP REFERRING TO “DINO GETTING HIS” BUTT KICKED IN WENATCHEE, WHEN CLEARLY BRIDGES WNE TAFTER SIMS AND YOUR GOLDEN BOY LOGAN? IT’S TIME TO OUT YOURSELF, BELLTOWN BOY.
“First they would have to ascribed to Bush, per arguments above and other threads.”
I don’t recall seeing this qualification in any of the GOP arguments. Where was it again?
Puddy @ 92
“DJ: Did the Slimes take their small sample from the same precincts the Repubs did? If so, then I’d agree with your confidence level, otherwise I would question them. Good statistical analysis.”
The Times was contacting individuals on the GOP felon voter list. Something over 3/4 of the illegal felons on the GOP list were from King County. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any information on the location of those particular illegal voters contacted by the Times.
mssrs 88 and 90, regarding #81;
you wrote
Checking Sound Politics this morning, I see Stefan Sharkansky is advocating the murder of Seattleites. Is this payback for the Rossi election debacle?
Of course, SS (where have we seen these initials before?) didn’t couch it in that language. He said,
I think you are implying Murder and he’s a Nazi?
Are you insane, or just stupid?
Richard Pope @33,
Yes, I actually sent Michael Pieper the letter, via email.
I’ll post more on this later, but the KC absentee ballot discrepancy was at most about 580… on par with Clark County (190) per thousand voters. Clark eventually counted the envelopes by hand and got the discrepancy down to 57. It should be noted that Clark also installed DIMS before the election, and had similar problems as King. This would lead one to believe that the discrepancy represents a record keeping problem, not extra ballots.
So you are comfortable with a record keeping problem for ballot accounting, but unwilling to think that saem inability to keep records might have tainted the election?
righton @ 99
we’re certainly unwilling to think so, in the absence of ANY indication to suggest taint.
tj@100
You clearly misspoke here.
“Any indication” was the fact the 5 precindts with the most voters than votes were Rossi-leaning and all 5 precindts with the most votes than voters were clearly Gregoire.
Perhaps you should rephrase your statement @ 100 to read simply:
“We are unwilling to think so NO MATTER WHAT EVIDENCE YOU PROVIDE THAT MAY EVEN SUGGEST IT”.
Torridjoe; how do we know? Secret ballots, you can’t go ask voters after the fact?
Perfect setup for fraud is ballots with no accounting for them.
Priscilla, Esq.: I almost said you got me there, but where is the hue and cry over the felon vote in 2000 by the right? I thought those felon problems occurred in 2004? Why did you selectively decide to only answer that line? Is it because the rest of your rants on this thread make no sense? I hope to see some of friends on your side come to your defense, unless, of course, there is no defense of your viewpoint. You know whenever I see Phil Fullmer and the UT football squad on the field, I root for them. They knew Al Gore was the Bore of 2000!
DJ:Yes I would like to see a full felon analysis printed by precinct, but it’s the Slimes, and the election contest is over, you guys won! Yes, I will say it; based on the existing laws of the WA State land today.
UPDATENancy Pelosi & Bill Richardson are not happy with the latest Howard YEEAAARRRG Dean rant. It was in Pelosi’s back yard none the less. Wasn’t that donnageddon in the audience? Damn, can’t be Did she test the wind in dem polls and saw that her backyard Marin County didn’t like the rant too? Hmmm… I wonder?
Peace.
Pudster
Richard Pope @35
Heflin filed an election contest action, since he alleged that 259 people were improperly registered in that state house district and voted in the November 2004 election.
Not so sure the two are as similar as they seem. The Texas Legislature actually took the case, as opposed to what happened in WA. While the Texas contest had some parallels, it was certainly not close enough to the WA case.
Not that it makes much difference, what you said sounds similar to what I wrote in an earlier post here. I think it would have been difficult for 138 or 200 cherry-picked illegal voter depositions to withstand full WSSC scrutiny, since by their very definition, the people who voted them are considered unreliable.
This was, coincidentally, the only avenue for the R’s to appeal which may have been successful. The fact that 5 votes “proven” to be illegally voted for an individual other than Gov. Gregiore via depositions from impeachable offenders and thus subtracted from the final tally was the only grounds I could find for an appeal, not that my Law background (or lack thereof) has much bearing. Given that 5 is not 134, the R’s laziness/incompetence/ineffectiveness to counter the D’s paradigm lead to no realistic recourse other than Rossi dropping the contest.
The R legal team’s failure to prove Rossi was deprived of office by chicanery is the only place where blame can validly be laid, as Judge Bridges told them back in February they must prove so, not insinuate, divine, or otherwise shortcut as they eventually tried to do. For any in the Rossi camp to place blame elsewhere is to ignore the lack of the elephant in the room, or mansion in this case…
irrelevant at 100
how the fuck does that indicate taint? You are delusional. You don’t even half the GOP’s half-baked numbers right.
righton at 102
how do we no there’s no evidence of taint? :headscratch: Couldn’t it be that no one’s provided any? And it sure sounds like you CAN ask the voters, since the only votes that were deducted in the election were a result of exactly that.
What no headless during the day. Hooray!!!
Pudster
torrid;
If I own the corner store, and you’re working the register, and I don’t have a camera running, but you consistently turn in less cash than the books indicate; i charge you with theft.
We have NO way to prove theft, except by circumstantial evidence. You can’t see ballots as cast, and cannot realistically “ask” voters.
We need a insider willing to fess up
Righton,
Your analogy fails because there is only one person who could have taken the cash. However, if you had two clerks working in the store, then the circumstantial evidence would be insufficient to form a basis for arresting one clerk and not the other.
Moreover, even with your analogy, you’d have a difficult time showing theft vs mere incompetence. I’d be willing to venture that most DAs would want something more than just the circumstantial evidence you’ve cited: like, say, the clerk spending more than he makes on salary. I don’t think you have a guaranteed conviction on the evidence you’ve cited.
Rick: What about each cashier having to cash out like at Costco? They run the final slip against the till. Would that work as circumstantial eveidence?
Pudster
I bet if you contracted out that operation, you’d fire them. I’ve done it to people working for me who come up short on the cash. Unlike KC, i care.
Righton, before you claim the till is off, you have to count the money. The GOP never “counted the money,” which is why there is no evidence.
Irrelevant Idiot @ 9 I imagine it is better to be important like Goldy, than be impotent like yourself. Your babbling has left you with the perfect name, from cynical idiot to blubbering irrelevance
Thank you for noticing!
U2 are irrelevant,,,,in case you haven’t noticed the obvious!
righton @97
Eat me.
#114: Patty are your cakes tasty?
Pudster
Gotta love the wit of the left. Do you think this stuff up delivering packages on your bicycles?
Actually they think up their LEFTIST PINHEADED MUMBLYPUKE while listening to Yanni play his New Age schtick and pretending to read Joseph Andrews!
Dear Mr. Irrelevant:
Is your name supposed to be ironic, or do you actually believe you are irrelevant? If the first, it’s not working — your disjointed, foggy posts are actually working in the progressives’ advantage. If the latter, well, you are certainly accurate.
…The GOP should take its lumps from the court ruling and stop whining before people start paying too much attention. Or not…
this thread is incredibly hilarious.
I’m talking about the Rossi supporters.
Is there even a single one of you who has never said re: Bush’s 2000 election, “GET OVER IT YOU CRYBABIES!!!!”
right. Every one of you has said that at one time or another in the past 4.5 years.
So, please. SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU BLOODY HYPOCRITES.
It’s funny to watch the supporters of two criminal gangs (Demorats and Rethuglicans) argue over who stole what.
It’s a little like watching Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union carve up Poland.
Goldy, when you say to another man “eat me” aren’t you being a bit forward? play a little HARD (no pun intended) to get.