No, not Sen. John Kerry; he’s endorsed Obama. I’m talkin’ former Sen. Bob Kerrey of Nebraska:
One of the minor shames of my life is that I came out of WA’s 1992 Democratic caucus — my first caucus ever — a loyal delegate for Bob Kerrey. (I switched over to Bill Clinton after he sealed the nomination, and managed to go all the way to the state convention.)
Why did I caucus for Kerrey? Because he moved me. Because he gave me hope. His passion, his personal story, his unorthodoxy… after 12 years of Reagan/Bush I hungered for a president who wasn’t just another politician, and Kerrey was unlike any other candidate I’d ever seen on the national stage. It was Kerrey who on the night he was first elected to the US Senate (and again, on the day he withdrew from the presidential race) sang the haunting lyrics to “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda” in lieu of a formal speech. That was the Kerrey I caucused for. I wanted to believe, and he gave me the opportunity.
Unfortunately, as his Senate career progressed, Kerrey repeatedly proved himself more of a Republican than a Democrat, betraying his party on numerous occasions, along with the hopes and aspirations of working class Americans.
So if you wonder why I have so much trouble putting aside my cynicism and embracing Obama, a man I truly want to embrace, I need only remind you of the words of yet another great American politician: “Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” So if I caucus for Obama on Saturday, it sure as hell won’t be because he moves me. (Which, he does.)
Dear Goldy: Don’t let your cynicism rule you – it is OK to believe in people and have them let you down. It happens all the time – it is human nature. We don’t give up wishing for the best – but we prepare for the worst.
Vote your beleifs and your conscience – not your cynical alter-ego. Go in with your eyes wide open and don’t shut them to possibilities.
We aren’t always disappointed and we aren’t always rewarded. Judge a person by what they do – not by what they say. I liked Edwards and what he said – but when I judged him by his actual votes – then I couldn’t enthusiastically support him.
that would be beliefs (typos rule!)
B. Kerry was a moderate from a rather conservative state. He was also a person first, a representative of the people of people of Nebraska second and a party member third. Which is about the order things should be in.
It seems to me your issue was that you endorsed an individual when what you were looking for was a party hack.
Great post Goldy! Spoken like a true adult. Nothing wrong with a little cynicism. In fact it is a venerable tradition. From wikipedia on the Cynics:
Anything Sen Bob Kerry says ought to be considered with great respect. A real life American hero.
Goldy
Many of my black friends say something similar. They do not want to be let down.
I ask, “wheres the beef” of both BHO and HRC. The problem, however, is that both are faced with the election year trap of having to explain anything complex.
So where does one go for real clues? One place I look is at each one’s choice of advisers. Clinton does not seem to me to have made wise choices.
Not the least of these is her hubbie. No, I do not think she should dump Bill in order to be Prexy, BUT I do want to be reassured that eh will not continue his international influence peddling for the Clinton Foundation. The assertion that he can continue this role AND be first hubbie, smacks of very poor judgement on someone’s part or poor leadership.
I also suggest you compare the choices of Campaign manager. Axelrod is very impressive, not just in tactical ideas but on what seems to me to be a Carville/Brazil-like commitment to progressive causes. Penn is also supposed to be bright but when he is interviewed he seems mor e interested in his fees than his causes. Do you know anything about him?
I also suggest that you look at each candidate’s pandering index. There is no trait of modern politics that is more difficult than deciding when to and when not ot pander . and nothing more harmful.
HRC seems to me to have a high pi. Her famous stand on flag burning, her stand on Iraq, her current stand on mortgages …these three make no sense and suggest she is fairly willing to trade her credibility for momentary popularity.
While she is leagues more honest than Romney, I think BHO has been impressive in his willingness to take hard stands that are good for us all:
1. Healthcare: for better or worse his plan does work financially. Heres only works if we assume folks will go for a healthcare tax,
2. Schools .. the unions need to accept the fact that we need master teachers.
3. mortgages … she is shameless on this one.
4. gay rights … they share a commitment but he has been great about discussing the conflicts this creates with his religious followers while she has made folks like me uneasy.
5. Fund raising .. I do not buy here arguments for Pacs. At the elast it shows an inability to leqrn the lessons Dean and Trippi apparently taught Obama and Axelrod.
“I’ve watched the blogs try to say that you can’t trust him because he spent a little bit of time in a secular madrassa. I feel quite the opposite — I think it’s a tremendous strength. Whether he’s in the United States Senate or whether he’s in the White House, I think it’s a tremendous asset for him.”
Bob Kerry, quoted about Obama. He never spent time in a “secular madrassa”???? Sorry – the guy is partisan for Hillary and repeating false republican canards. Ain’t no respect for Bob Kerry cause he doesn’t deserve it…..
Kerrey’s endorsement makes sense. He probably realizes that Hillary is the best candidate to actually do something about implementing the 9/11 commission’s proposals.
Kerrey is a Liebercrat – not an ounce of cred with me.
Obama / Edwards 2008!
BTW
BobK is also one of my heroes. He is a real plus on her side as are General Clark, Ron Sims, Patty Murry, Robert Kennedy. Patriots like these do not give support lightly.
OTOH, BHO also has garnered real heavy weights .. Brezhinski, Reich, Tribe, Ethel Kennedy …
I am not sure this helps?
@5: …And admitted war criminal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04.....38;ei=5070
Who has, essentially, gotten a free political pass for his “transgressions.” An American hero, indeed.
@6
Give me a break, this a junior senator who has ducked many of the difficult votes in the senate so that he can have a clean record when running for president. Obama is ambitious, but taking hard stands is not what comes to mind when I think of Obama. Do you call caving in on nuclear power oversite taking a hard stand?
@11
Geov that is not fair. We should commend returning soldiers for their candor. Otherwise how do we really know what happened on the battlefield if we just turn around and attack them once they are honest? Now perhaps he could have come forward a lot sooner, and talked about atrocities like the John Kerry did. That is a legitimate gripe.
Fog of war
@12 Gordon
I do not know enough about the legislation to comment. Both, BHO and HRC, however, have pandered on the Yucca mountain issue.
My main point is NOT the BHO has an outstanding record, he does not. My main point is that HRC’s claim to a long term record of service is only true in that she has been in politics a long time. Given that long connection with poublic life, however, she has a meagre CV.
Look, these are both REAL candidates. Blowing small issues into huge ones does no one any good.
@12:
Where was Hillary on earmarks? Obama voted for the amendments to make them extensive – Hillary voted against.
Where was Hillary on Iraq?
Where was Hillary on outlawing cluster bombs? Hillary for – Obama against.
Where was Hillary on the bankruptcy law?
Sorry – Hillary has taken the expedient (political, not conscience) route on too many votes.
@11 Geov
there is heroism in admitting your faults.
He will move us all. Right to our wallets.
CLEAN SLATE IN 08. America is 3 months behind on the house payment and thinking about putting in a pool.
Get rid of ALL OF THEM.
@11
He could have denied it. He didn’t. That was a long time ago and a really fucked up situation.
“”It’s the shame. You can never, can never get away from it. It darkens your day. I thought dying for your country was the worst thing that could happen to you, and I don’t think it is. I think killing for your country can be a lot worse. Because that’s the memory that haunts.”
Bob Kerry
Each of the Democratic candidates have some endorsers that I think are superb and some that repulse. But I’m not being asked to vote for the endorsers. They are meaningless. Would you vote for or against Obama because our asshat mayor has endorsed him?
@13, 14, & 17: Commanding a unit that murders 13 unarmed civilians is a little more than just a “fault” to “admit.” (And only after a career in the US Senate and a run for President.) People have been executed for much less. And the tone of both your apologies and the original NYT piece — leading with Kerrey’s angst over the incident, not, say, what it meant to relatives of the victims — says reams about how willing we are to excuse our countrymen when they accidentally round up and kill a few brown people. Ask the survivors whether that’s “fair.”
why are people this slimy excused in any way?
in ANY WAY???
“We “were given a hell of a lot more latitude than we should have been. . . . ” Kerrey said in 1998″
see? it’s not HIS fault,someone else made him do it, right? WRONG.my god! so, under his crazy ‘logic’ if you aren’t being watched and told what to do every minute you are going to turn into a psycho. oh……right.
good grief!! people…are you paying attention? do you know how many soldiers go into wars much worse than vietnam and they don’t commit atrocities like this? MOST OF THEM.and yet the left calls this sack of sh*t a “hero”???
and then this creepy little bit that shows he was more than prepared to be the monster he became in vietnam…
“Around the farm, there is an activity that no one likes to do. Yet it is sometimes necessary. When a cat gives birth to kittens that aren’t needed, the kittens must be destroyed. And there is a moment when you are holding the kitten under the water when you know that if you bring that kitten back above the water it will live, and if you don’t bring it back above in that instant the kitten will be dead. This, for me, is a perfect metaphor for those dreadful moments in war when you do not quite do what you previously thought you would do.”
sick, sick, sick….and the dems idolize this piece of sh*t?
so…to sum it up: if you are a liberal dem then you love teddy ” but can she swim ?” kennedy the MURDERER, robert “KKK” byrd THE CLANSMAN,and bob “they were women and they weren’t really running??” kerrey…..THE MASS MURDERER.
great..good to know where you guys stand………..
in a pile of crap of your own making.
so..if you want to be a liberal elected official then please by all means commit real crimes while your peeps whine about things that “might” happen……..
The Republican approach to tax reform — steal from the poor and give to the rich. Here’s what Mitt Romney said today, when he spoke before the “Conservative Political Action Committee”, withdrew from the presidential race, and gave his backing to John McCain:
“The threat to our culture comes from within. … [T]he liberals haven’t given up. At every turn, they try to substitute government largesse for individual responsibility. They fight to … remove more and more people from having to pay any income tax whatsoever.
…
It’s high time to lower taxes, including corporate taxes, to take a weed-whacker to government regulations, to reform entitlements, and to stand up to the increasingly voracious appetite of the unions in our government!”
http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....peech.html
Republicans such as Romney believe that it is imperative to lower income taxes for wealthy Americans and corporations, but that it is not only bad policy, but some sort of terrible sin, to lower income taxes for lower income and moderate income Americans.
23 – can this wingnut say any more clearly “knee goes jerk”?
@22
Something terrible happened that night. It’s not clear how or who made it happen. Innocent women and children were killed, that is a fact.
It is also a fact that Kerrey was an officer in an elite special forces unit. SEALS are probably the most difficult units to get into.
He is the recipient of the MOH. That is a huge deal. That alone tells me all I need to know about him.
Trying to dissect his and his teams actions 39 years after the fact is pointless.
And by the way, I said “Anything Sen Bob Kerry says ought to be considered with great respect.” Not that I agree with everything he says, just that I respect what he has to say and consider it more than most.
michael…but he does deny it….over and over and over again.
and ratcity? you are known by the company you keep. if hillary had any decency [which, gee ,i already knew she didn’t} she would have told him where to shove his endorsement ON CAMERA.
now, that would have shown character.
but then, she’s a clinton…..
and gordon? FOG OF WAR? have you ever cut any of our men in iraq right now any slack under that meme? no? what a surprise.
coming from a whole family of military men [including my husband…vietnam] NONE of them ever did anything like this. period. it’s indecent and people making excuses for it are even worse…….
YLb……oh, excuse me if real atrocities really really piss me off every time.
and yet, here you are making excuses……..
typical.
@22,
I am not excusing Kerrey, and certainly waiting as long as he did to come forward about it is problematic. But how you can just effortlessly drop “war criminal” next to his name without any hint of subtlety demonstrates why it might have taken him so long to come clean. Lots of terrible things happen in war, and I am sure we will find out plenty about Iraq in the years to come. But attacking people when they come forward with honest confessions is not pragmatic. And that is my point, we have to create a space of reconciliation and forgiveness to overcome the problems produced by a difficult and bloody fog of war. And for shame invoking brown people, that is pretty rich coming from another privileged whitey. :-) I care deeply about the 3 million plus Vietnamese that died in the 60’s and the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have been either killed or injured in this recent folly. But let’s focus on the system of oppression and its leaders, not the teenagers and 20 somethings and what they do in the trenches.
Surely you have heard of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. That is where I get my ideas. A process (started by “brown people” I might add) that recognizes the pragmatic and transformative power of having individuals come clean with ALL the details, when they participated in a system of repression and war. I learned about water boarding and wet bag torture techniques years ago when I studied the testimony of Geoffrey Benzien. That kind of candor is beneficial to society, and a marked improvement over the “is it torture or isn’t it” dance we have in the American congress these days. That’s my only point. But sure this is a free country and you are entitled to throw your easy criticisms, as uncomplicated as they may be presented.
The fine print on the absentee ballots for the Feb. 19 primary requires you to choose a party preference and declare:
“I will not participate in the nomination process of any other political party for the 2008 Presidential election.”
Being the law-abiding bunny that I am, I’ll vote in the Democratic primary — and, meaningless though it is, this is probably the only chance I’ll get to express a preference as it appears I’m too ill to attend a caucus on Saturday. In fact, I’m almost a hospital case, and the veterinarian has ordered me back to the clinic for more tests. I talked with the veterinarian by phone tonight, and if what he thinks I have is correct, there’s no cure and I have permanent damage to my lungs. But don’t rejoice just yet, fascist traitor trolls: I ain’t dead yet!!!
@5 Kerrey is a victim of war, along with John McCain, Roger Rabbit, and the rest of us.
gordon, i agree with geov ….
“But how you can just effortlessly drop “war criminal” next to his name without any hint of subtlety demonstrates why it might have taken him so long to come clean.”
good lord..if you were to look up the definition of war criminal his picture would be next to it. of course i am going to call him that….he is one. and i don’t think the statute of limitations is up either..
“But attacking people when they come forward with honest confessions is not pragmatic.”
i’m sorry if i have totally missed your point here.it was awfully convenient of him to wait till after he got elected and then was out of office to “come forward”. how convenient. i’m sure charlie manson would have liked to play that game too. and there is no difference between him and manson. it’s not like he came forward right away or didn’t try and keep people quiet, is it?
he was a seal and an officer….they don’t get into “fog of war” issues. period.that’s the whole point of their training.
and water boarding. do you realize that exactly THREE top terrorists were “treated” to it?
that’s right….THREE.
by all counts…bob kerrey is waaay ahead……and his “peeps” are really dead too.not just freaked out.
the far left couldn’t be more hypocritical if they tried…
War corrupts us all.
roger……….i am sorry to hear that you are sick. is the lung damage military related?
roger..to a certain extent, yes. but not the way kerrey was “corrupted”. from his creepy little story about kittens…it was a very very short trip to corruption-ville.
and he was a seal…come on roger! you know better…….
@11 Maybe the fault lay with the orders and rules of engagement rather than Kerrey personally. On the other hand, people who volunteer for the SEALS know what the job is, therefore can’t claim innocence.
In Vietnam, SEALS were used as assassination squads, and to carry out the mission they sometimes had to kill villagers in addition to the target. It’s easy to be judgmental about guys who crept into VC villages after dark if you’ve never had to put yourself into that kind of danger. You’re out there alone, there’s no backup, and if you get in a jam you either get yourself out or you don’t get out. It’s one thing to read about this stuff on a computer screen, but if you never spent a dark moonless night in enemy territory in Vietnam, you can’t know it it was like, and as I said, those who don’t know shouldn’t be too quick to judge. If you want to blame someone for what happened, then blame the CIA spooks and high-ranking officers sitting in air-conditioned offices who dreamed up these missions.
ChristmasGhost @ 32
If they only waterboarded three people, then why the extreme efforts to defend and whitewash the practice?
roger!! come on…i know you are sick, but really “the rules of engagement” are the problem?
no way….especially for a seal…….
so what’s up with your lungs,little bunny?
correctnotright @ 12: Where was Obama on giving hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to energy companies?
Hillary voted against it, Obama voted for it.
Where is Obama on balancing social security with a $1,300,000,000,000 (that’s 1.3 TRILLION dollars) on the backs of middle class Americans like me? Well that’s Obama’s plan, and Hillary says no way.
@32 What the fuck would you know about fighting a war?
@34 Probably.
correctnotright @ 12
Also, even though I personally didn’t like the thought of what the bankruptcy bill could do, I knew some reform was needed.
Let me tell you a story about a woman that parked in a pay parking lot that was sold out – day after day, and she told the attendant – “My company is paying for this, please bill them.” Day after day she did that, and at $32 per day, she was able to rack up over $3,200 (including late fees) over three months. Finally, she was confronted and told she couldn’t park there anymore because her company hadn’t paid the invoices and was 90 days late, and she replied “That’s ok, my company isn’t really paying for this, but I’m declaring bankruptcy tomorrow so I knew you wouldn’t be able to collect.”
And with that, she did, the notification of bankruptcy was delivered to my buddy’s company in a week, and sure enough, she listed the $3260 in parking debt right on the bankruptcy bill.
I can understand why reform was needed when, under the old system, she was able to just eliminate that bill with no questions asked, no plan for repayment. Nothing.
Now true, the bankruptcy bill does affect a lot of people who can’t truly pay, but sometimes, you vote for something that is a starting point, even though it has some aspects you don’t like, and then with a democratic president and democratic congress, you make upgrades.
Overall, while I didn’t like the bankruptcy bill in it’s entirety, I supported it as well.
@35 Like I said, SEALS are volunteers who know what they’re signing up for, but it’s the responsibility of commanders to define missions and delineate what the guys in the field can do, and what they can’t do. A lot of things give way to military necessity, but at the end of the day, the soldier in the field either acted according to his orders or he exceeded them, and if he didn’t exceed his orders then the complaint is not against him but against the guys who wrote the orders.
Goldy,
I share your cynicism…even I, a guy who tears up every time he watches “Miracle on 34th Steet”, find Obama’s schtick getting a bit stale. The vision of famous leaders from the past matched their soaring rhetoric (FDR, Churchill when he wasn’t on his lips, King). The rhetoric supported and enhanced the goal….not the other way around.
I find Obama’s vision rather blurry at times.
@39 Chronic coughing, frequent infections, reduced oxygen exchange, impaired airways. A head cold quickly turns into pneumonia. The insides of my lungs resemble the tailing pond of a chemical factory.
RP…what “extreme efforts” are you referring to? all i’ve been hearing is the mindless drumbeat from the left that it might be “icky”…..
BUT, not half as icky as using retarded kids and women to blow people up now is it? we have to match our enemies to protect ourselves to a certain extent. that does not mean that we stoop to their level [ala kerrey]….
water boarding it causes no permanent damage either.
do i think we should be practicing this? only in extreme conditions …and then, it shouldn’t be discussed. we are at war. why do you people have to keep being reminded of this? don’t you think that if the far left would stop attacking their own country for a while that maybe the war would be over sooner? i mean, if you phonies can do it for an election process????
that’s right…you are busted. have you heard anything about the war lately? what about pelosi’s promise, hm? where is cindy sheehan?
wow…not obvious or anything.you guys just “care so much” unless of course you get your marching orders to shut up while the campaign is going on…..
could we have won WW2 with this ridiculous level of internal scrutiny?
and if you are going to have this attitude then how on earth can you justify people like kerrey?
boy oh boy…it was a very short trip for you from “republican” to democrat. anything to “win” huh?
how did that work out for you? are you going to form your own dino/rino party now? you could give goldy a job as your speech writer…..he’s pretty good at the BS you know…..
@39 That isn’t all. The plumbing is screwed up. All my joints have been injured. The only thing that’s any good is the cardiac system. My heart works. Hardly anything else does. When the rest quits, somebody’s gonna get a good recycled heart.
roger@41….i don’t need to have fought in a war to know when something is very very wrong. and seals still have to follow the military rules. and kerrey can read can’t he?
i am so sorry about your lungs…..agent orange or worse?
anything anyone can do for you?
roger@48………god, i am so sorry!
how about your liver and kidneys? do you have an auto immune problem?
What the hell. I lasted 60 years and I ain’t even dead yet. I’m not complaining. That isn’t bad for a feral rabbit living in a public park.
@50 I seem to be rotting from the center outwards, and those parts appear to be okay.
Goldy, what do you mean with “he betrayed his party”. Are you saying that no matter what, a politician is no longer an individual, but a party apraratchik ? When I vote for someone, I look at the person, not the party. I look at what he/she stands for, how do his/her views compare to mine, who are his/her advisors etc. I don’t look at the party. The party stands just as a guideline or some sort of infrastructure…but I’m happy to see if a person “betrays” his/her party if he/she is following a clear opinion/view/you name it. I don’t agree with the everything the republicans or the democrats do. To me the individual is key, how does he/she compare.
That seems to be the problem: He betrayed the democratic party…bullshit. He followed his believes. I’d rather have a guy like that than ….oh…..Richard Pope….which party did he betray ? From rabid republican to rabit democrat with the flick of a “filing”. Are those the people who you want to represent us ? I say: No thanks.
People, look at the candidates running, don’t look at the party, but who can you identify with more. That “blindly following party doctrine” is BS and will not help you or anyone else. If you just go by party…why have a “primary or caucus”, just have the party determine. Is that what you want ?
R.Rabbit: “Chronic coughing, frequent infections, reduced oxygen exchange, impaired airways. A head cold quickly turns into pneumonia. The insides of my lungs resemble the tailing pond of a chemical factory.”
you have been infected by e coli conservatism. Throw a log on the fire, grab a glass of good Irish whiskey, bundle up, and sweat it out.
It will pass. All things do.
roger….shoot…i am so so sorry. you are only 60! that’s not old….don’t give up the ghost yet. depending on what you have there could be new treatments that are in clinical trials right now. email me…i have oodles of connections with the CDC and research facilities…. i may be able to help.
I’m just not sold on Obama. Yes, he’s an exciting, charismatic, dynamic candidate. There are moments in history when that’s what’s needed. But what America needs today is a plow horse. There’s a reason why Democratic party leaders and elected officials are lining up behind Clinton. She can pull the plow. The Republicans will take advantage of Obama, and he won’t even know he’s being hosed. If this were Eisenhower’s GOP it would be different. But this is Rove’s GOP, so we need the bitch in combat boots. Obama’s pollyannish naivete won’t cut it in this partisan environment.
@54 Srangely, whiskey works better on it than anything the drug companies have come up with.
Cripes, now everybody feels sorry for me, and this thread is going to turn into a great big pity party! I shouldn’t have said anything. Sure I’m living on borrowed time, but none of us get out of this world alive, and like Clint Eastwood said, “Kid, we’ve all got it coming.”
These wingnuts can’t go off about Ted Kennedy enough as if anyone in WA State can do anything about Teddy.
They should go to a Boston-based blog and try their knee jerk there.
@59 At least Ted Kennedy has atoned for his personal failings by being a humanitarian in his political career. I’d rather have a thousand Ted Kennedys in the Senate than one picture-perfect Republican with a flawless resume who doesn’t give a rap for the hungry, the poor, the unemployed, or the working class.
It would have been far easier for Kennedy to have spent the family fortune by living a life of ease in splendid obscurity than subjecting himself to decades of abuse from people whose entire agenda consists of selfish privilege. He killed one person; they’ve killed tens of thousands. He drinks too much; they loot and pillage an entire planet. If I end up bunking in Hell, I’d rather have Ted Kennedy for my roommate than one of them.
@53
Right on!
And yes, Virginia, McCain was BOOed at CPAC:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....d-at-cpac/
Pelletizer, Puddy and the family will pray for you. No IFs needed.
Carl Two Left Feet Grossman, you do the same!
Goldy..I agree with whomever said it way upthread that there are a couple of things that I look to when I am evaluating candidates.
1) Their votes, but not in isolation. I look for floor speeches, amendments they forwarded, etc. We all know that there are bills that our elected ones vote on that look bad on the surface, but generally there is an underlying reason behind the vote. This is the main reason I will not vote for the Clintons. She cast a vote that could be argued either way, but her floor speeches, lack of amendment forwarding, her votes on others amendments forwarded told me that she made the wrong vote for the wrong reasons.
2) Who they gather around them. What quality of advisor the candidate considers for their campaign is likely what we’ll get in cabinet office, etc. The Clintons are having a reunion of his old advisors plus a few high profile sleezebags like Penn and Wolfson….check those two guys out…they are bad news.
Obama has collected an unconventional, but highly impressive set of minds around him. All ages, all colors, some political, some academic, some just folks. Samantha Powers and his retired military are very impressive.
Check this fella out… http://lessig.org/info/bio/
Supposedly Obama’s tech platform is unparalleled and should be of interest to you.
Pelletizer wrote: “who doesn’t give a rap for the hungry, the poor, the unemployed, or the working class.”
Sounds like most of the 16%ers here who sat on their ass and whined about Mike Brown on Katrina instead of going there or contributing to a relief effort.
Trust me, you all know who you are!
Does Kerrey’s endorsement of Clinton help her any in Nebraska I wonder? I don’t know his popularity out there.
G Davis: You mean her finger in the wind and triangulation on every topic – like her I was for illegal aliens getting drivers licenses until I noticed everyone getting pissed so I went against it?
Yeah, that’s the Heilary most 16%ers here know and love…
@66 I gave $100 to the American Red Cross. What did you give?
@68 Isn’t it a politician’s job to REPRESENT her constituents? Or are we supposed to elect a blank check and then go along with whatever they feel like doing?
Well we know Nebraska is flyover country per the Moonbat!s at Air America. So I wonder how many votes he’ll russel up for Heilery?
Bob Kerrey was popular when he was their senator.
Pelletizer@69: Did you forget already what I gave?
I’ve been pouring over Obama’s voting record (I’m getting quite the speech put together for my caucus on Saturday) and again, another vote that makes me SHUDDER about Obama
Obama votes for big oil, a bill championed by Dick Cheney, with other fine senators like Christopher Dodd, Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton, amother others, voting NO.
Source: Senate.Gov Roll Call
This on top of the hundreds of millions of dollars of our tax money he voted to give to energy companies, when other energy companies like Exxon reported a $40 BILLION dollar profit on February 1st. How can this man justify the corporate give-away of our tax dollars?
uhhhh, that should be “among others”
DustinJames
Your heart is in the right place, trying to parse voting records and the like. But, Hillary, and I like and respect her, is a hard sell to the American people. I was talking to a Republican friend on the ferry tonight (he, of course, denied he’s a Republican), who said he wouldn’t vote if the race was between Obama and McCain. He also said he would not only vote, but donate money to and campaign for McCain if Hillary is our candidate. Reality hurts. Pragmatism sometimes seems like a sellout. We cannot lose this election. Another Republican president and the Constitution will be empty words written on a bathroom wall.
DustinJames: Here is what happened for Exxon last year…
http://seekingalpha.com/articl.....tors_picks
roger….well, i really hope you do get better. sincerely.
and YLB…they didn’t boo mccain..they booed at his reference to illegal aliens and then they cheered when he said that he needed to fix the border problem. i guess, technically you were right about the booing from where you sit.
let’s see you admit to being wrong……..anytime
Re: 73, Maybe Obama could say this about Exxon.
Exxon Mobil pays as much in taxes ($27 billion) annually as the entire bottom 50% of individual taxpayers, which is 65,000,000 people! Further, the tax rate for the bottom 50% is only 3% of adjusted gross income ($27.4 billion / $922 billion), and the tax rate for Exxon was 41% in 2006 ($67.4 billion in taxable income, $27.9 billion in taxes).
http://seekingalpha.com/articl.....tors_picks
It’s those evil corporations paying the tax Americans won’t pay.
DustinJames: You are an idiot. I love your class warfare attacks on Obama.
Exxon makes 9.5 cents profit on each dollar of Gas. So on a $3.00 gallon of gas Exxon makes 28.5 cents. So think of how much gas is sold.
On Average, Federal, State, and Local Gas Taxes Consume 46 Cents Per Gallon. What is interesting to this PuddyStudy are where the most demagogic politicians against Big Oil are from. The most liberal states who rail on the Big Oil profits have the highest taxes.
Why is that DustinJames?
Goldy,
I believe I was a delegate to the state convention that year, too. Dates, however, run together, and it might have been 1988. I think I started at the local level as a delegate for Tom Harkin, who promptly dropped out after the Washington caucus. Whatever year it was, Mike Lowry was about done as governor. He gave one of the most inspirational speeches at that convention I have ever heard. He said (paraphrasing): “I don’t understand why rich people don’t like taxes. Taxes are the only way to pay for the things that rich people can’t pay for with their own money. Things like clean air, clean water, good schools, a highway system that works, law enforcement, etc. Rich people should stand up and shout, I want to pay more taxes so I can have these things.” I miss Mike Lowry.
ChristmasGhost@77: Yeah it’s sad about Pelletizer. I hope he gets better. I need a dumb bunny to pick on.
Now about the other fool in your post, why do you think I call him a Clueless Idiot?
ChristmasGhost: Puddy emailed you!
ghost @ 77
Have you ever admitted your errors? Your arrogance is truly remarkable. You question the intellectual pedigree of others, while failing to disclose your own. The only way your husband abides with you is that he is a cuckold. Sorry, dear.
DustinJames: In NY State you pay approximately $.60 per gallon gas.
See how the democrat machine screws the leetle peeples? I see this was lost on your small liberal mind, so Puddy did the study to help you.
Rob @ 78…the key word in your post is taxable.
I don’t think anyone is calling for higher tax RATES on corps…just that they quit hiding real income in tax loopholes.
Balance sheets are funny things…
Puddybaby,
Here is the GOP at its racist heart: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI.....pstoryview.
Who would have thunk that Bush would appoint racists to important positions?
Re: 86. I believe the keyword/phrase is that one corporation (Exxon Mobil) pays more tax than 50% of individual taxpayers in the United States and the left is unhappy about it.
Should Exxon Mobil pay more tax than all of us, or is 50% of us enough?
Roger Rabbit
Harvey tells me to offer Pookah support.
proud leftist: I don’t think you have a pot to piss in when it comes to railing on anyone’s pedigree.
Let’s just say just about everyone does it. Some do it with racism though. How would you like it if I compared you to Bull Connor? A young George Wallace or Orval E. Faubus?
See what I mean?
RE: 86, In case you havn’t noticed. Hillary Clinton is calling for higher taxes on corportions.
Here she is folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PfE9K8j0g
Proud Leftist: How do we know the political persuasion of the man in the costume? In post #75 above you mentioned your Republican friend… Maybe that was a democrat?
Show me the person was a Republican and I’ll denounce it. If he’s a democrat I expect the same from you.
By the way, you’ve never denounced headless lucy have you? I am keeping count.
rob @78
I know it’s hard to feel a pat on the head over the internet. But, little guy, I’m giving you a pat on the head. Now, drink some chocolate milk and go to bed. Your link is sorry-assed blather and you do not seem to comprehend the difference between apples and oranges. Maybe, with a good night’s sleep, you will be able to tackle the day’s assignments. And, maybe, in two or three years, providing you don’t commit any felonies, you’ll be old enough to vote.
@ 85 – you pay $0.60 per gallon in NY? I assume you mean you pay $0.60 less per gallon?
Let me ask this, why is our gas tax here in Washington (I think based off the latest data I could collect from the internet) $0.10 to $0.15 HIGHER than that of Oregon, but yet I just got back from Portland 2 weekends ago and I filled up CHEAPER in Vancouver, WA than I saw anywhere around the Portland area (and I’m talking suburbs, similar to what Burien or Sea-Tac would be to Seattle).
Probably because gasoline distributors like Exxon and Chevron set their prices to be similar state to state, and when state taxes are a little less, well heck, they can just charge a little more to make up for that – right?
There is a reason that Phone Companies, Cable Companies, Electric Companies enjoy a limited monopoly with rate oversight by the states. I can guarantee, that if rate oversight was given to the states, we wouldn’t see $40 BILLION in profits for oil companies when the average price per gallon consumers are paying nationally is roughtly $2.80.
But, that’s neither here nor there. What I’m saying specifically about Obama and the reference to the Oil Companies, isn’t so much about their record profits, but how can this man support subsidies from our tax dollars to energy companies when they are raking in that sort of money? That’s like giving a couple of thousand of my tax dollars to a millionaire.
How can this be justified?
@78 And where do you think Exxon got that $27 billion? From the ground? From rich guys who drive Hummers? Or maybe did most of it come from the wallets of ordinary working Americans.
I daresay Exxon’s far-flung global business enterprise probably got at least $27 billion worth of military protection and other government services last year.
@91 Somebody has to pay taxes. Would you like to pay more so Exxon can pay less? But don’t worry, robbie dear, taxes is a cost of doing business and Exxon will pass their taxes through to you at the pump. So, either way, you get to pay.
Re: 93. Do you have some conflicting data? I didn’t think so. What you do have is the typical leftist meme of attacking the messenger without facts. Next time you want to say something have something to back it up. by the way, I have been voting since since 1972. I wasn’t near a polling place in 71.
RE: 95, Uhmm yes they did get it from the ground. You see they are in the OIL BUSINESS. Oil comes out of the ground.
RE: 97, Are you sure your health problems aren’t mental? I will type slow for you this time so maybe you will understand. One corporation out of thousands pay as much taxes as 50% of individual taxpayers and you don’t seem to think that is enough.
You other redherrings about the US protecting Exxons global interests are just that. The US is protecting US interests. If we didn’t need the oil we wouldn’t be protecting it. We need the oil, if we didn’t corporations such as Exxon wouldn’t be overseas getting it for us.
I know this is difficult for you to understand but maybe someday.
Proud Leftist, you know, I’ve been asking people the exact same thing, about what ‘baggage’ she comes with. And when they think about it, they can’t really think of anything specific, other than just “you know, everyone just repeats that.” Some people brought up her 94 health care plan, but when I asked why they thought it was bad, they couldn’t answer. They just said – “I heard it was bad.”
I was up on Capitol Hill talking to people at the Deluxe Bar & Grill on Wednesday, and the attitudes are a changing, the more they think, and the more John McCain is going to the Republican Nominee, the more she is electable. I think the last poll showed she was within 2% of Barack Obama vs John McCain, and that was within the polls margin of error.
Puddy @ 90 and 92:
“proud leftist: I don’t think you have a pot to piss in when it comes to railing on anyone’s pedigree. Let’s just say just about everyone does it. Some do it with racism though. How would you like it if I compared you to Bull Connor? A young George Wallace or Orval E. Faubus?”
I don’t give a damn about the guy in the costume’s politics. Rather, I care about the gal who has his arm around him. Bush appointed her to a high level position. Yeah, Congress approved her, but the photos were lied about. Tell me, do you think this is good?
With regard to your questions posed above, let me suggest you don’t know a damned thing about me. If you’re comparing me to those who you name, you are far nuttier than I think you are.
Re: 102, Bull Conner, George Wallace and Orval E. Faubus were all democrats. Maybe I was wrong about you. You should just stay with your rhetoric and give up on facts.
DJ @101
I’m not sure Capitol Hill is the best place to take the survey. We need to win this election and the difference policy-wise between Hillary and Obama is not terribly significant. We’re talking about perceptions. As a guy who does a lot of fishing in places like Forks, and Yakima, and Montana (where lots of Democrats reside), I know that Obama does not elicit the visceral reactions that Hillary does. These folks want a Democrat, but they don’t want another Clinton. They’re sick and tired of Bush and his ilk. But, Hillary, who everybody knows, hardly looks like a savior. We need to win this election. Period. Obama is a better route to victory than is Hillary.
@99 Exxon pays taxes with money, not oil, and money doesn’t come out of the ground. The money Exxon pays taxes with comes from consumers who pay for oil, dumbass.
@100 Are you really this fucking dense?
RE: 105, I knew it wouldn’t take long for the name-calling.
Hey rabbit, which came first, the chicken or the egg. We all pay taxes with money rabbit, the source of Exxon’s money happens to come out of the ground. Duh
I am under whelmed by the intelligence on this blog tonight.
RE: 106, did you have an argument or were you just letting your blood pressure get the best of you?
RR @ 106
Indeed, he is. I believe rob must have been homeschooled by parents who thought that education is a tool of the devil. By the way, my heart goes out to you with regard to your respiratory difficulties. We need you around, so I hope your doctors know what the hell they’re doing.
RE: 109, see that works better for you when you just attack and don’t use facts. It isn’t so embarrassing for you.
According to the Tax Foundation, in 2005 (the latest year for which figures are available), the bottom 50% of taxpayers paid $28.675 billion, so rob’s claim that Exxon pays “as much” as the bottom 50% is incorrect — $27 billion is $1 2/3 billion less than $28.675 billion, and in my book, $1 2/3 billion isn’t chickenfeed.
But let’s look more closely at what rob is saying.
The 50% breakpoint is $30,881 per year (2005 data). Remember, all the taxpayers in the bottom 50% — the folks who paid more taxes than Exxon — made less than that. Many of them, much less. Well, first of all, it includes all veterans receiving a full disability allowance from the V.A. ($2,200 per month) with no other income. It includes millions of senior citizens whose only income is Social Security. It includes all minimum wage workers. It includes millions of college students who work part-time jobs to help pay their expenses.
Why should Exxon, the world’s biggest and most profitable corporation, pay less taxes than these folks?
It’s not like Exxon is being singled out for tax abuse. They pay the same 35% tax rate as other profitable corporations. Why shouldn’t they?
Apparently rob feels the poor aren’t paying enough taxes and/or the world’s most profitable corporation is overtaxed. If he really feels strongly about this, he should run for congress and see if he can get elected on a platform of making the poor pay higher taxes so Exxon can pay less taxes.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
You’ll have to excuse me while I go shed some crocodile tears for a poor, oppressed, overtaxed corporation that can afford to pay its CEO a $400,000,000 retirement bonus.
I have an idea. Let’s send rob to gas stations to collect signatures to reduce Exxon’s taxes.
@107 “the source of Exxon’s money happens to come out of the ground. Duh”
It’s useless to try to reason with someone like this.
Liberals, I am going to bed now. I would like to say it has been fun but you guys were really off your game tonight. All I got was just the usual adhomenim attacks and some name calling. I do hope you read the links I provided amd it helps you with your decision on Saturday. I will be caucusing for Clinton now that we already have McCain. I don’t want to get into the race baiting that the Clintons used against Obama. I would rather use it against the Clintons.
Have a good night.
Here is Bubba playing the race card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6RmXTlhY4
@109 “I hope your doctors know what the hell they’re doing.”
I’m not real optimistic about that, considering it took them 50 years to figure out their latest diagnosis.
@116 Why don’t you sleep on where money comes from, then try this tax thing again tomorrow. Until then, don’t let the bed bugs bite!
ROGER RABBIT QUIZ
Where does Exxon get its money from?
[ ] 1. A hole in the ground
[ ] 2. People who buy gas and heating oil
RE: 111, Rabbit, take your meds and go to bed. You are using figures from 2005 and claiming they are the last year available. I used 2006 and those figures are available unless you are a liberal and still using a typwriter and a leger sheet.
RE: 119, All taxes are paid ultimately by the consumer rabbit, Exxon for example had an after tax profit of 40 some billion. Of course we paid all the taxes, we also paid billions of dollars for exxon and other corporations lawyers and accountants on top of paying their taxes.
That is the idiocy of the democrat party. They sell you feeble minded lemmings on the fact that they are going to make corporations pay for you and the corporations pass that tax along with costs to prepare and fight them along to you and I.
And of course the poor, women and ethnics are most affected.
DustinJames asked “@ 85 – you pay $0.60 per gallon in NY? I assume you mean you pay $0.60 less per gallon?”
No DustinJames. They peeps pay that just is taxes per gallon. Gas in NYS is one of the highest in the nation.
Pelletizer: They got it at 9.5 cents for every dollar of gas sold. So how many billion gallons of gas were sold last year?
Pelletizer: ExxonMobil has one major product. If they didn’t have that one major product, they would be in another business.
So Pelletizer that $1.675 Billion was paid by Chevron or Texaco or Cesar Chavez’ favorite CITGO.
What’s your point? The evil oil companies paid tons of taxes. And… you can’t include the taxes I ID’d in #80.
Rob, exactly my point on those three democrats. Proud Leftist didn’t see the comparison because he’s got Bush Derangement Syndrome.
If I compared Proud Leftist to those three racists he’d be fully upset. He just didn’t get the comparison headless lucy made to me and PacMan. He just doesn’t get it now. I doubt he’ll get it in the future.
And to this day he hasn’t renounced headless lucy’s racist rants.
So where does that leave you Proud Leftist? Enquiring minds want to know…
Proud Leftist – I disagree, a look at the issues shows the candidate I most believe in is, in my opinion, the superior one, and I’m signed on for the long haul.
Barak – He just has too many tax & spends, oil company pockets, flip flops, and outright lies on the campaign trail (Pass the Nuclear Bill – anyone?)
@40: give it up Dustin, you have no defense:
Your social security about Obama stuff is made up – no links, no facts and full of it.
Your health care has been debunked and you have yet to explain Hillary’s votes:
For the War in Iraq
For cluster bombs
For earmmarks
all of which Obama voted against.
who has the “fuzzy” stands’?
So Pelletizer let’s look at the taxes paid by ExxonMobil since you think they are such an evil company, more commonly called class warfare.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/U.....-690px.jpg presents the picture of all the states with their gas taxes.
I understand Pelletizer is in a reduced capacity state, more reduced that what he normally operates at so I’ll cut him a leetle slack…
The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates the average family of four pays $1084 in fed, state & local gas taxes each year. Yet I don’t hear any donkey kong crying about this tax. Where is the Clueless Idiot on this issue? Oh… it’s above his minuscule brain power.
So for you leftist pinheads who claim I never bring anything to this blog here’s another of my many PuddyStudies.
If ExxonMobil pays $30 Billion for 2007 the Fed extracted a lot more in tax revenue. But how much?
Let’s assume the average American price for gas is $3. ExxonMobil 2007 pretax profit was $70.6 Billion. They paid $30 Billion in taxes for 2007. I doubt you’ll hear this from the liberal donkey led MSM. So if gas is $3/gallon and they make 9.5 cents per dollar that’s 28.5 cents per gallon. Well if we take $70,600,000,000 and divide by $0.285/gallon = 247,719,298,245.61 billion gallons of gas and we multiply that by $.46 excise taxes/gallon = $113,950,877,192.98.
Ummm donkey breaths, that $113 Billion in taxes from mostly the leetle peeples. The Feds get 18.4 cents/gallon and the rest is state and local. so if the Feds get 18.4 cents = $20,966,961,403.51 in tax revenue from selling gas.
If I am wrong in my calculations please point out where. So the small amount of tax credits the BIG EVIL oil companies get allow them to explore, drill and pump the crude out, and this is more than offset by the tax revenue taken in.
But this is a class warfare issue for the donkey party who never look at the big picture and don’t want you to investigate it.
And Clueless Idiot, Proud Leftist etc. I did this on my own. No right wing site to help me.
For those donkeys who think I made this stuff up:
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
See the WA, CA and NYS state gas taxes. OUCH!
proud leftist says:
ghost @ 77
Have you ever admitted your errors? Your arrogance is truly remarkable. You question the intellectual pedigree of others, while failing to disclose your own. The only way your husband abides with you is that he is a cuckold. Sorry, dear.
02/07/2008 at 10:05 pm
wow…you are just one sad little cookie aren’t you? does this ever work for you?
my intellectual “pedigree” huh? that’s a classic……
i would ask for yours, but i have already read your posts so i don’t need to………