The Seattle chapter of Drinking Liberally meets tonight (and every Tuesday), 8PM at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E.
I won’t be there… so all the more reason to show up and talk behind my back.
Not in Seattle? Liberals will also be drinking tonight in the Tri-Cities and Vancouver. A full listing of Washington’s eleven Drinking Liberally chapters is available here.
Roger Rabbit has rarely attended DL ever since the Parks Department fascists put out a $50 contract on my pelt.
I see in today’s news that John McCain called Rumsfeld “one of the worst” defense secretaries in the nation’s history, and blamed the Iraq quagmire on Rummy.
I can’t disagree with McCain’s basic conclusions, but I have a question. When a manager makes a bad hire that costs the company a heap of money and its reputation, doesn’t the manager get fired? (Except in Japanese companies that expect the boss to commit seppuku when everything turns to shit.)
Hey, I’m not saying Bush should take the seppuku route, but since he hired Rumsfeld, shouldn’t he be impeached or something? How about a little corporate governance over this? Hey? Isn’t Congress supposed to act like a board of directors in these situations?
roger will not be at drinking liberally because HE DOESN’T EXIST.
geez…is anyone buying this schtick anymore?
it’s right up there with “give me money or i won’t be able to go on…”
the part goldy left out was “….on to florida for a vacation where i can get my mommy to give me more money so i NEVER have to grow up and get a real job”
HEH. HEH. JUST A WHILE BACK, THAT RIGHT-WING TURD PBJ SPEWED HOW HE LOVED TO SEE DEMOCRATS EAT OTHER. YEAH RIGHT. I’VE SEEN THAT SCUMBAG PUT DOWN HIS FELLOW WINGNUTS OVER HOW THEY’RE NOT RIGHT WING ENOUGH OVER AT THAT PIT OF HATE AND DESPAIR, (UN)SP.
WELL THE TRUTH HAS COME OUT. THE TERRORISTS LOVE YOU VERY MUCH PBJ. THEY HELP MAKE THE WORLD YOU LOVE TO LIVE IN.
SO ALL YOU WINGNUTS JUST DRIVE YOUR 3 TON+ GAS GUZZLERS TO YOUR FAVORITE RIGHT WING HAUNT FOR YET ANOTHER SESSION OF WINGNUT CANNIBALISM. PLEASE, PLEASE GO FURTHER TO THE RIGHT IF YOU’RE REALLY CONVINCED THAT WILL HELP YOU IN 2008!!!
HEY XMAS GHOST. SCHWARZENEGGER IS SMARTER THAN ANY OF THE WINGNUTS YOU LOVE. HE WENT TO THE LEFT! WILL YOUR WINGNUT CROWD FOLLOW?
I DON’T THINK SO.
I’m for the chimpster committing the ruder form, not seppuku, which would be “honorable, rather just hara kiri. . .he’s simply not up there with Sen Rikyu.
While a guzzlin’ libtardly discuss these poll numbers numbnutz’:
POLL: AMERICANS ‘WANT TO WIN IN IRAQ’
Tue Feb 20 2007 16:21:32 ET
In the wake of the U.S. House of Representatives passing a resolution that amounts to a vote of no confidence in the Bush administration’s policies in Iraq, a new national survey by Alexandria, VA-based Public Opinion Strategies (POS) shows the American people may have some different ideas from their elected leaders on this issue.
The survey was conducted nationwide February 5-7 among a bi-partisan, cross-section of 800 registered voters. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percent. The survey was commissioned by The Moriah Group, a Chattanooga-based strategic communications and public affairs firm.
The survey shows Americans want to win in Iraq, and that they understand Iraq is the central point in the war against terrorism and they can support a U.S. strategy aimed at achieving victory, said Neil Newhouse, a partner in POS. The idea of pulling back from Iraq is not where the majority of Americans are.
By a 53 percent – 46 percent margin, respondents surveyed said that Democrats are going too far, too fast in pressing the President to withdraw troops from Iraq.
By identical 57 percent – 41 percent margins, voters agreed with these statements: I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security and the Iraqi war is a key part of the global war on terrorism.
Also, by a 56 percent – 43 percent margin, voters agreed that even if they have concerns about his war policies, Americans should stand behind the President in Iraq because we are at war.
While the survey shows voters believe (60 percent- 34 percent) that Iraq will never become a stable democracy, they still disagree that victory in Iraq (creating a young, but stable democracy and reducing the threat of terrorism at home) is no longer possible. Fifty-three percent say it’s still possible, while 43 percent disagree.
By a wide 74 percent – 25 percent margin, voters disagree with the notion that “I don’t really care what happens in Iraq after the U.S. leaves, I just want the troops brought home.”
When asked which statement best describes their position on the Iraq War, voters are evenly divided (50 percent – 49 percent) between positions of “doing whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country,” and positions that call for immediate withdrawal or a strict timetable.
27 percent said “the Iraq war is the front line in the battle against terrorism and our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country.”
23 percent said “while I don’t agree that the U.S. should be in the war, our troops should stay there and do whatever it takes to restore order until the Iraqis can govern and provide security to their country.”
32 percent said “whether Iraq is stable or not, the U.S. should set and hold to a strict timetable for withdrawing troops.”
17 percent said “the U.S. should immediately withdraw its troops from Iraq.”
The survey also found that voters thought it would hurt American prestige more to pull out of Iraq immediately (59 percent) than it would to stay there for the long term (35 percent). Public Opinion Strategies “scored the best win-loss record among the major polling and media firms in the 2004 election” and was named Pollster of the Year in 2002.
X X X X X
Oh… wait… for libtards to discuss a poll they need a brain. I hear WalMart is selling single cell organisms.
Unfortunately, the most recent examples have the board of directors forcing the CEO to resign, then awarding huge bonuses despite poor performance. A far cry from “sepeku”.
Since “W” has failed at three seperate oil business ventures and was bailed out by friends of his dad each time, and eventually rewarded by a pre-packaged campaign for governor or Texas and then the Presidency, then I’m sure he has every reason to expect a soft landing in this ultimate job, regardless of any job performance.
Gee, another one of those “producers” MTR likes to bragg about so often. Get into college on Dad’s and Grandad’s alumni and political status, get so-so grades. Avoid going to Vietnam by joining the Air National Guard (jumping ahead of others in line with better test scores), but don’t suffer any consequences for failing to perform after losing interest two years into the job. Get into an Ivy League graduate school despite mediocre grades due to Dad’s influence. Get set up in the oil busines by dad, get bought out by Dad’s friends shortly before it would have gone bankrupt. Repeat two more times. Then get set up as the “public face” of a collection of owners of a professional baseball team, sell out for a profit (hey, there are always buyers for that item), and then pick up a pre-packaged campaign run by dad’s friends for the governship of Texas, then take the same pre-packaged campaign team and run for the presidency, lose the election but have the re-count stopped by brother and brother’s cronies in Florida, and then dad’s friends on the Supreme Court, get the Presidency anyhow. In office, ignore all advice against getting involved in Iraq and screw it up royally. Start disbanding FEMA and let thousands suffer as a result. Ignore all fiscal management and control and watch the national debt skyrocket, but tell the Democrats its their problem.
Given Bush’s past history, is there any reason to believe that he has any reason to take personal responsibility for his past failures? Wouldn’t he believe that, even now, he’s due for some promotion and greater rewards in the future, regardless of merit? Isn’t it fair to say that Bush believes he is “entitled” to success because, well, he is a Bush??????
@3 It appears the new wingnut fable on this board is that I’m Goldy. Gotta question for ya, ghost — if I’m Goldy, how come I ain’t in Florida? Huh? Why am I still stuck here in my fucking hole in a public park?
@5 You mean slitting his wrists with a razor blade?
@6 So? I want my own lettuce farm, but what I’ve got is Stefan’s garden. In this world, wanting and getting are two different things, and the mature adult population has learned to settle for what they realistically can get. Only juvenile wingtards are still calling for “victory” in Iraq. Whatever “victory” is. Say, when are you warmongers going to define the mission? Wouldn’t it help our troops if they knew what they’re fighting for?
@7 “Unfortunately, the most recent examples have the board of directors forcing the CEO to resign, then awarding huge bonuses despite poor performance. A far cry from “sepeku”.”
Yeah, I understand the principle, but if Bush agrees to resign in exchange for a huge bribe I think we should jump at the chance. Things have reached that point.
It’s a little difficult to bring up children these days, trying to convince them that it’s important to work hard, be honest and lead a righeous life, when they see the example of a dim-witted, amoral, shiftless lout who’s never done a minute of honest work in his life getting a free ride all the way from his mother’s tit into the Oval Office.
Re: 12. You liberals shouldn’t talk about Bill Clinton like that.
PUTTING ASIDE FOR THE MOMENT THE QUESTIONABLE PEDIGREE AND METHODOLOGY OF THAT POLL, PUDDYBUD CONVENIENTLY LEFT THIS OUT:
While the Bush administration may find some comfort and support in these poll results, their efforts to increasingly tie the war to Iran do not seem to be working. By a 63 percent-32 percent margin, poll respondents say the US should hold direct talks with Iran about the situation in Iraq and they narrowly reject (49 percent-47 percent) the statement “a stable Iraq is the best way to protect America from the nuclear threat of Iran.” Voters also say they are more concerned about the War in Iraq (53 percent) than the growing influence of Iran (35 percent).
NICE TRY WINGNUTS.
Say, when are you warmongers going to define the mission? Wouldn’t it help our troops if they knew what they’re fighting for?
Actually they are more concerned whether their vote counted, especially the soldiers who have the misfortune to be registered in liberal voting districts.
America should pay for the war. Men and Women sacrificing life and limb. Wives, Husbands, Mothers and Fathers sacrificing – not having their loved ones home. America not sacrificing, out having a good ole time, putting the cost of the war on a credit card. Pay up America.
I am Republican – I lie, steal and cheat when I’m not being a family man (fat useless whore) or a crying hypocrite. Hail Hitler!
Re 13: Re: 12. You liberals shouldn’t talk about Bill Clinton like that.
The above is simply more wingnuttery infectulance from the nether reaches of sanity. The plain fact of the matter is this: It does not matter one whit how anybody talks about Bill Clinton, except in the border regions of wingnuttia. Therefore ignoring this particularly loathesome example of sentient thought(assumed, but this can get you into trouble) taken to uncharted depths of fatuousness is perfectly acceptable, and frankly, should be mandatory. Simply look at the evidence.
One might as well discuss astrophysics with an astrologer or a flat earther.
Re: 18. Ok go ahead and talk about Bill Clinton, I don’t care. I just thought that Art the fart was a bit harsh on Bill.
@18 Trying to teach robtard to think is like trying to teach a pig to whistle. . .you accomplish nothing and only annoy both the pig and the audience.
Robtard, I know I am insulting the porcines with the comparison, but, that’s the way the proverb goes. . . . . . .
Re: 18. Ok go ahead and talk about Bill Clinton, I don’t care.
My, oh my. Well if you do not care, then why don’t you shut the fuck up? Your bloviating is simply a low form of guttersniping, and thus not even worthy of comment beyond that expressed.
Re: 20. Ok I am done sticking up for Bill Clinton, when I do I get schoolyard attacks from Liberals. I agree with Art the Fart, Bill Clinton is that last person I could think of to put forward as a role model for children or leave children with as Claire Macsskil ( newley elected senator from Missouri) said, “I wouldn’t leave my Daughter alone with him”
Re: 21. I just did, you libtards can bash Clinton all you want.
Clueless@14: Iraq was the call to arms for libtard voters, not Iran. So why do you bring up Iran libtard Clueless? You and others said November 7th, November 7th. It was your mandate remember? It was the only item Pelosi, Murtha, Kucinich, etc. used. Now you see how people think about Iraq.
Meet the Press:
Tim Russert: “You had Bill Clinton come in and raise money for you, do you think Bill Clinton is a great President?
Claire McCaskill: “I do. I have a lot of problems with some of his personal issues. I said at the time, I think he’s been a great leader but I don’t want my daughter near him.”
Dispute this Clueless:
http://hillaryspot.nationalreview.com/
Astounding!
Video: Meet the press with DemcRAT Claire McCaskill saying she didn’t want Bill Clinton near her young daughter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ust%2Ehtml
@13 “rob says: Re: 12. You liberals shouldn’t talk about Bill Clinton like that. 02/20/2007 at 6:10 pm”
He’s not, dumbass. har har har — you lose.
Re: 28. watch the movie in 27 dumbass, you might learn something. Nevermind, I forgort you’re a lemming/liberal.
Re: 27. Heh Heh , I am sure we will be seeing that clip alot after you libtards crown the Hildabeast.
SORRY ROBTARD. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE CHIMPANZEE YOU VOTED FOR TWICE, THAT IS IN 2000 AND 2004. YOU KNOW THE ONE WHOSE NUMBERS ARE AT 30 PERCENT AND DROPPING.
BILL CLINTON’S NUMBERS NEVER GOT THAT LOW. HELL THE PEOPLE LOVED HIM THE MORE THOSE IDIOTS YOU ROOT FOR TRIED TO DEPOSE HIM.
BUT WE FORGIVE YOU. AFTER ALL, YOU PUT THE “TARD” IN ROBTARD. YOU CAN’T HELP YOURSELF.
@15 “Dan Rather says: Actually they are more concerned whether their vote counted, especially the soldiers who have the misfortune to be registered in liberal voting districts. 02/20/2007 at 7:06 pm”
Boy, isn’t that the truth:
“Buffalo Soldiers Scrubbed By Secret GOP Hit List
“The Republican National Committee has a special offer for African-American soldiers: Go to Baghdad, lose your vote.
“A confidential campaign directed by GOP party chiefs in October 2004 sought to challenge the ballots of tens of thousands of voters in … Black-majority precincts.
“Files from the secret vote-blocking campaign were obtained by BBC …. They were attached to emails accidentally sent by Republican operatives to a non-party website.
“One group of voters wrongly identified by the Republicans as registering to vote from false addresses: servicemen and women sent overseas.
“Here’s how the scheme worked: The RNC mailed these voters letters in envelopes marked, ‘Do not forward’, to be returned to the sender. These letters were mailed to servicemen and women, some stationed overseas, to their US home addresses. The letters then returned to the Bush-Cheney campaign as ‘undeliverable.’ The lists of soldiers of ‘undeliverable’ letters were transmitted from state headquarters … to the RNC in Washington. The party could then challenge the voters’ registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.
“One target list was comprised exclusively of voters registered at the Jacksonville, Florida, Naval Air Station. … [See this scrub sheet at http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.g.....038;size=o ] …
“A soldier returning home in time to vote in November 2004 could also be challenged on the basis of the returned envelope. Soldiers challenged would be required to vote by ‘provisional’ ballot.
“Over one million provisional ballots cast in the 2004 race were never counted; over half a million absentee ballots were also rejected. The extraordinary rise in the number of rejected ballots was the result of the widespread multi-state voter challenge campaign by the Republican Party … of which the purge of Black soldiers was a … part ….
“The BBC obtained several dozen confidential emails sent by the Republican’s national Research Director and Deputy Communications chief, Tim Griffin to GOP Florida campaign chairman Brett Doster and other party leaders. Attached were spreadsheets marked, ‘Caging.xls.’ Each of these contained several hundred to a few thousand voters and their addresses. A check of the demographics of the addresses on the ‘caging lists,’ as the GOP leaders called them indicated that most were in African-American majority zip codes.
“Ion Sanco, the non-partisan elections supervisor of Leon County (Tallahassee) when shown the lists by this reporter said: ‘The only thing I can think of – African American voters listed like this – these might be individuals that will be challenged if they attempted to vote on Election Day.’ …
“Joseph Agostini, speaking for the GOP, suggested the lists were of potential donors to the Bush campaign. Oddly, the supposed donor list included residents of the Sulzbacher Center a shelter for homeless families.
“Another spokesperson for the Bush campaign, Mindy Tucker Fletcher, ultimately changed the official response, acknowledging that these were voters, ‘we mailed to, where the letter came back – bad addresses.’ The party has refused to say why it would mark soldiers as having ‘bad addresses’ subject to challenge when they had been assigned abroad.
“The apparent challenge campaign was not inexpensive. The GOP mailed the letters first class, at a total cost likely exceeding millions of dollars, so that the addresses would be returned to ‘cage’ workers. …
“Setting up such a challenge list would be a crime under federal law. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 outlaws mass challenges of voters where race is a factor in choosing the targeted group. While the party insisted the lists were not created for the purpose to challenge Black voters, the GOP ultimately offered no other explanation for the mailings. …
“It is not possible at this time to determine how many on the potential blacklist were ultimately challenged and lost their vote. Soldiers sending in their ballot from abroad would not know their vote was lost because of a challenge.”
Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info see http://tinyurl.com/jv9nf
Roger Rabbit Commentary: Dan, I’ve posted this news story before — it’s from no less a source than the BBC, one of the world’s most highly respected news organizations — and I’ll repost it every time a wingnut liar like you spews wingnut bullshit about Democrats denying soldiers the right to vote.
The TRUTH is, soldiers WERE denied their right to vote — BY REPUBLICANS, in a manner constituting a FEDERAL FELONY. Of course, the perps didn’t go to jail because their party has a firm grip on federal law enforcement and is protecting them.
But, as we saw last November, the Republican Party can’t protect itself from the wrath of the voters. It’s very, very hard to make lies stick in the total absence of objective evidence — and it’s even harder to keep corruption and criminal acts secret, as the GOP is finding out to its sorrow. If I were a soldier sent to Baghdad to risk life and limb against IEDs, without proper equipment, and found out the people who sent me were secretly preventing my vote from being counted back home — I’d be very, very, very angry.
The GOP is making a hell of a lot of enemies in the U.S. military. Shove that up your ass and suck on it, Dan.
P.S., you’re a traitor.
@18 Prsonally, I think it came from the nether reaches of his rectum.
RE: 31. Oh sorry Yos Libtard, you should have said so. I got confused because Bill Clinton has never has a job in the private sector, George Bush has worn the uniform and flown supersonic jets for the military (Bill Clinton dodged service altogether and moved to London) and George Bush has not had members of his own party afraid for their children around him on national television. Bill Clinton has though, watch the movie!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ust%2Ehtml
PUDDYBUD: YOU AND ROB ARE ‘TARDS HERE. YOU’RE BOTH LOSERS. AS FOR IRAN, I CITE IT BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF THE POLL YOU QUOTED.
NOT TO MENTION YOU PRAY DAILY FOR THE WIDENING OF THE WAR TO IRAN. YOU THINK IT WILL SAVE YOUR PATHETIC TEAM.
ESCALATING THE WAR TOWARDS IRAN WILL ONLY DO WHAT ISRAEL’S INVASION OF LEBANON DID – CREATE MORE TERRORISTS BUT THEN AGAIN THAT’S WHAT YOU WINGNUTS REALLY WANT.
@22 Bill Clinton’s fecal droppings have more integrity than you and all of your wingnut pals put together.
@29 I’m not sure what your point is, rob. As I’ve said before, you are the most juvenile of all the wingnut posters on this board. Many of us liberals, me included, have criticized Clinton’s personal behavior. We’re not giving the man a free pass. But, whether you like it or not, Clinton was an able and effective president who did a lot of good for the country. It’s so very sad that George W. Bush is such an awful president he makes Clinton look good.
@33 If I had been George Bush’s commanding officer, I wouldn’t have given a damn who his daddy was, I would have court-martialed him for desertion.
OH BOY ROBTARD YOU REALLY STEPPED IN IT NOW. SO HOW DID THE CHIMPANZEE YOU VOTED FOR TWICE HONOR THOSE WHO SERVED IN HIS PLACE IN THAT “CHAMPAGNE” UNIT?
WAS HE COMBAT READY FOR SIX YEARS, READY TO BE CALLED WHEN HIS COUNTRY NEEDED HIM?
SORRY ROBTARD. HE WAS PRACTICALLY AWOL THE LAST TWO YEARS AND DIDN’T BOTHER TO TRY PASSING HIS PHYSICALS. HE WAS A DRUNKARD AND A PLAYBOY.
OH AND HE WAS SUCH A SUCCESS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. SAT ON A BOARD OF A COMPANY, TOLD DIRTY JOKES, CASHED IN SOME STOCK JUST BEFORE THE COMPANY WENT BANKRUPT. EVEN HE ADMITTED IN INTERVIEWS THAT THE COMPANIES HE WAS ASSOCIATED WITH EXCEPT FOR MAYBE THE TEXAS RANGERS WERE ALL FAILURES.
BILL CLINTON AVOIDED SERVICE BECAUSE HE DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE WAR. YOUR CHIMP CHEERLEADED THE WAR THE WHOLE WAY AND DID EVERYTHING HE COULD TO AVOID GOING INTO HARM’S WAY. THAT WAS FOR OTHER SUCKERS TO DO.
Re: 36. I can see why people call Liberalism a mental disorder. You call me juvinile while you take on the persona of a rabbit living in a hole in a city park. Go figure.
As for my point, again Liberalism is a mental disorder. Read #12. For those of us that are not lemmings (you are not included in this group rodent) Art the farts comments can be equally if not more to the Clinton side to both are past and present President. I don’t have time to keep explaining things to a make believe rabbit though.
Re: 38. Where was Bill Clinton again? Oh that’s right he dodged the draft.
Yos Libtard says at 38.
BILL CLINTON AVOIDED SERVICE BECAUSE HE DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE WAR. YOUR CHIMP CHEERLEADED THE WAR THE WHOLE WAY AND DID EVERYTHING HE COULD TO AVOID GOING INTO HARM’S WAY. THAT WAS FOR OTHER SUCKERS TO DO.
You are lying about that Yos Libtard. If Clinton didn’t believe in the war he could have applied for a consciences deferment. He didn’t do that though, he just chickened out.
40 – WHERE WAS YOUR CHIMP AGAIN? IN A CHAMPAGNE UNIT PUT AT THE HEAD OF THE LINE, THE BENEFICIARY OF A POLITICAL FAVOR.
GEE I WONDER HOW THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE CHIMPANZEE’S PLACE FARED? EVER THINK ABOUT THAT ROBTARD?
WHEN YOUR CHIMP AVOIDED HIS PHYSICALS WAS HE EVER THINKING OF THOSE WHO WENT IN HARM’S WAY IN HIS PLACE?
Re: 41. I forgot, also Bill Clinton didn’t drive supersonic jets in the military like did George Bush. He was spotted driving a Volkswagon mini bus though.
41 – SORRY ROBTARD. CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION IS A SERIOUSLY VETTED STATEMENT OF BELIEF.
TO SOME DRAFT BOARDS NOT EVEN JESUS CHRIST WOULD GET A PASS AND CERTAINLY NOT IN ARKANSAS.
Re: 44. that’s what I said, he just chickened out and dodged the draft.
HEY ROBTARD: YOUR CHIMP WAS GIVEN OVER WHAT? A MILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF PILOT’S TRAINING AND HE COULDN’T PASS MUSTER FOR SIX YEARS?
NOW HE’S THE RESIDENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND HE’S PUT YOUR KIDS AND YOUR GRAND KIDS IN HOCK FOR THEIR LIFETIMES – ALL FOR HIS PHONY WMD, AFRICAN URANIUM, ALUMINUM TUBES AND HIS OTHERWISE EXCELLENT ADVENTURE IN IRAQ.
YOUR CHIMPANZEE IS AN EXPENSIVE DISASTER ROBTARD.
Hey you have to give the chimp credit. He was the first since 1988 to win the presidency with over 50% of the popular vote. It may take a village to raise a child, but it only takes a chimp to beat a democrat for president. hehehe
Re: 46:
1. George Bush flew supersonic jets, Bill Clinton Drove a mini bus.
2. I was never for this war until we entered it. The Vietnam war was not ended when the Democrats in Congress declared defeat and pulled out. By varying accounts 1.5 Million people were slaughtered after the Democrat Congress cut off funds for the South Vietnamese. There are two ways to end a war, defeat and victory. I choose victory.
Democrats choose defeat.
48
1. GWB FLEW JETS FOR FOUR YEARS. HE SIGNED UP FOR SIX. WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TWO ROBTARD? YOU KEEP AVOIDING THE QUESTION: HOW DID HE HONOR THOSE WHO SERVED IN HIS PLACE? WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?
2. SO TELL ME ROBTARD. POLITICAL LEADERS NEVER START WARS THAT SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN STARTED? SO THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE IS TO SUPPORT THOSE SAME WARS AFTER THEY START? HELL BY YOUR REASONING IF YOU WERE AN IRAQI YOU WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED SADDAM’S INVASION OF IRAN AND KUWAIT!
THANK HEAVENS YOU LIVE IN A PLACE WHERE DISSENT IS ALLOWED IF NOT ALWAYS TOLERATED VERY WELL BY SOME PEOPLE.
1. GWB FLEW JETS FOR FOUR YEARS. HE SIGNED UP FOR SIX. WHAT HAPPENED THE LAST TWO ROBTARD? YOU KEEP AVOIDING THE QUESTION: HOW DID HE HONOR THOSE WHO SERVED IN HIS PLACE? WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM.
Yeah what about the last two years? What was that…. have I signed over my military medical records or explained my discharge date… ah nevermind.
Re: 49.
1. I am sure George Bush put as many miles on an F-102 as Bill Clinton put on a Volkswagen Mini Bus.
2. Your number 2 is an idiotic comparison. We don’t live under a dictatorship. We have elections and by our vote we choose to follow the winner of that election. If Americans (liberals excluded) were unhappy with the war we had another election in 2004. We could have elected Dennis Kucinich we didn’t though.
My point is when American gets into a war we should all work towards victory.
Democrats work towards defeat.
@39 “As for my point, again Liberalism is a mental disorder.”
Since you brought the subject up, rob, let’s compare liberals with your ilk.
Liberals gave us the Constitution, Bill of Rights, free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the rule of law, and due process of law.
Rightwingers think it’s okay to arrest and imprison people without charge or trial, deny them access to a lawyer, and have no problem with beating, raping, sodomizing, torturing, or murdering people who have not been found guilty of anything. Right wingers think critics of, and dissenters from, their violent and counterproductive policies should be jailed; and see nothing wrong with our own government spying on our medical, financial, employment, school, and library records in violation of the Constitution and the laws of our nation; but rightwingers think THEIR constitutional rights are violated if bank robbers, psychos, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and skinheads are prevented from gaining access to military assault weapons and/or impeded in gaining access to handguns. Rightwingers want to force-feed THEIR religion to our children in public schools; rightwingers scream that abortion is “murder” but want to invade every country, bomb every village, and kill women and children all over the globe. And while doing this they preach about “morality.”
Liberals gave us the 40-hour work week, overtime pay, minimum wage, child labor laws, workplace safety laws, injured workers benefits, unemployment insurance, collective bargaining rights, the G.I. Bill and veterans benefits, and Social Security and Medicare.Right wingers oppose minimum wage laws, overtime pay, unemployment benefits, safety regulation, and benefits for injured workers.
Rightwingers support anti-union “right to work” laws, oppose minimum wage laws, want to eliminate Social Security and Medicare, and cut veterans benefits; rightwingers scream about paying taxes for “welfare” but cry tyranny if a judge orders them to support their own children.
Liberals gave us free public education, the cornerstone of our democracy and economic prosperity.
Rightwingers want to give tax money to private schools with no accountability for how the funds are spent, what the children are taught, or whether they learn.
Liberals gave us consumer protection laws, public health programs, and environmental laws that clean up the air we breathe and the water we drink.
Rightwingers think these laws are “communism” and laugh at “tree huggers,” global warming, and science.
Sucks to be you, rob.
Oh, and did I forget to mention? I’m PROUD to be called a “liberal.” On the other hand, I wonder how many Republicans will even admit they were Republicans a few years from now — I’ve never met a single person willing to admit he voted for Nixon.
@40 Yes, Clinton dodged the draft. And George W. Bush went AWOL from the National Guard in wartime. Doesn’t say much for either of them, does it.
There are two ways to end a war, defeat and victory. I choose victory.
CHOOSE VICTORY WHEN THIS COUNTRY IS ATTACKED ROBTARD. WE WERE THE ATTACKER AND WE TRUMPED UP BULLSHIT REASONS FOR THE ATTACK. TO THIS DAY SOME PEOPLE LIKE DOOFUS @ 47 STILL BELIEVE SADDAM HAD A HAND IN 9/11. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE ROBTARD.
CHOOSING TO BE AN AGGRESSOR IS ALWAYS A MISTAKE AND THERE IS NO HONOR WHATSOEVER IN VICTORY IN A WAR OF AGGRESSION.
@41 For your information, under the laws in effect at the time, conscientious objector status was not granted to individuals who thought a particular war was unwise or immoral and did not want to fight in it. CO status was very hard to get and generally speaking you had to be an active member of a church that forbade its members to bear arms under any circumstances.
One thing I’ll say for Clinton is, he didn’t waste $1 million of taxpayer money by taking flight training and then refusing to serve in the military occupation he was trained for at great public expense.
But then, George W. Bush has never had any respect for taxpayer money.
Let’s see, what business was George W. Bush in? Oh yes, he was part owner of a baseball team — you know, those guys who want taxpayers to build expensive sports palaces for them while highway and school budgets languish.
Liberals gave us the Constitution, Bill of Rights, free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the rule of law, and due process of law.
If that is so, why do liberal constantly go against the constitution when making their silly laws. Ah thats right we are also liars and hypocrits. Got it.
@47 They weren’t real votes, they were electronic blips “cast” by one guy at a computer keyboard.
Only a wingnut thinks Bush won the 2000 and 2004 elections.
@48 Bush didn’t fly shit. He failed to show up for his flight physical despite being ordered to do so, and was grounded.
Roger Rabbit says:
And George W. Bush went AWOL from the National Guard in wartime. Doesn’t say much for either of them, does it.
Here here Rabbit. And we have the forged documents to prove it. Hey they cant fire me twice. hehehe
62
Only a liberal believes in Diebold. heehehee No wonder they call us moonbats.
we choose to follow the winner of that election.
BULLSHIT. WE GIVE HIM A CHANCE. IF HE SCREWS UP WE CAN VOTE HIM OUT OR IMPEACH HIM. CONGRESS AND THE SUPREME COURSE PUT A CHECK ON HIM.
WHAT YOU’RE ADVOCATING IS AUTHORITARIAN.
My point is when American gets into a war we should all work towards victory.
SURE. SO WHY HAVEN’T WE CAUGHT THE GUYS BEHIND 9/11 ROBTARD? IT’S BEEN OVER FIVE YEARS. THOSE GUYS ARE BIN LADEN AND AL ZAWAHIRI. THOSE GUYS ORGANIZED THE ARMY THAT FLEW THE PLANES INTO THE TOWERS. THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE – YOUR CHIMP ISN’T “CONCERNED” ABOUT THEM. HE’LL BANKRUPT THIS COUNTRY TO CHASE WHATEVER THE HELL HE’S CONCERNED ABOUT.
IS HE WINNING THE WAR ON TERRA? NO. TERRORISM IS UP ALL OVER THE WORLD. ONE WOULD HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT HE WANTS MORE TERROR AROUND THE WORLD AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T HAPPEN HERE IN THE USA TO GET REPUBLICANS INTO HOT WATER.
DOOFUS: YOU’RE A LOSER. BUZZ OFF TWERP.
Bush was not a pilot, he was a slacker. THESE GUYS were real pilots:
Maj. Bernard Fisher, Medal of Honor
1st Air Commando Squadron
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. On that date, the special forces camp at A Shau was under attack by 2,000 North Vietnamese Army regulars. Hostile troops had positioned themselves between the airstrip and the camp. Other hostile troops had surrounded the camp and were continuously raking it with automatic-weapons fire from the surrounding hills. The tops of the 1,500-foot hills were obscured by an 800-foot ceiling, limiting aircraft maneuverability and forcing pilots to operate within range of hostile gun positions, which often were able to fire down on attacking aircraft. During the battle, Major Fisher observed a fellow Airman crash land on the battle-torn airstrip. In the belief that the downed pilot was seriously injured and in imminent danger of capture, Major Fisher announced his intention to land on the airstrip to effect a rescue. Although aware of the extreme danger and likely failure of such an attempt, he elected to continue. Directing his own air cover, he landed his aircraft and taxied almost the full length of the runway, which was littered with battle debris and parts of an exploded aircraft. While effecting a successful rescue of the downed pilot, heavy ground fire was observed, with 19 bullets striking his aircraft. In the face of withering ground fire, he applied power and gained enough speed to lift-off at the overrun of the airstrip. Major Fisher’s profound concern for his fellow Airman, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, are in the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country.
Lt. Col. Joe Jackson, Medal of Honor
311th Air Commando Squadron
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Colonel Jackson distinguished himself as a pilot of a C-123 aircraft. Colonel Jackson volunteered to attempt the rescue of a three-man U.S. Air Force Combat Control Team from the special forces camp at Kham Duc. Hostile forces had overrun the forward outpost and established gun positions on the airstrip. They were raking the camp with small-arms, mortars, light and heavy automatic-weapons, and recoilless-rifle fire. The camp was engulfed in flames, and ammunition dumps were continuously exploding and littering the runway with debris. In addition, eight aircraft had been destroyed by the intense enemy fire, and one aircraft remained on the runway, reducing its usable length to only 2,200 feet. To further complicate the landing, the weather was deteriorating rapidly, thereby permitting only one air strike prior to his landing. Although fully aware of the extreme danger and likely failure of such an attempt, Colonel Jackson elected to land his aircraft and attempt the rescue. Displaying superb Airmanship and extraordinary heroism, he landed his aircraft near the point where the combat control team was reported to be hiding. While on the ground, his aircraft was the target of intense hostile fire. A rocket landed in front of the nose of the aircraft but failed to explode. Once the combat control team was aboard, Colonel Jackson succeeded in getting airborne, despite the hostile fire directed across the runway in front of his aircraft. Colonel Jackson’s profound concern for his fellow men, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country.
Capt. James Fleming, Medal of Honor
20th Special Operations Squadron
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Captain Fleming, then 1st Lt., distinguished himself as the aircraft commander of a UH-IF transport Helicopter. Captain Fleming went to the aid of a six-man special forces long-range reconnaissance patrol that was in danger of being overrun by a large, heavily armed hostile force. Despite the knowledge that one helicopter had been downed by intense hostile fire, Captain Fleming descended and balanced his helicopter on a river bank with the tail boom hanging over open water. The patrol could not penetrate to the landing site, and he was forced to withdraw. Dangerously low on fuel, Captain Fleming repeated his original landing maneuver. Disregarding his own safety, he remained in this exposed position. Hostile fire crashed through his windscreen as the patrol boarded his helicopter. Captain Fleming made a successful takeoff through a barrage of hostile fire and recovered safely at a forward base. Captain Fleming’s profound concern for his fellow men, and at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country.
Col. William Jones III, Medal of Honor
602d Special Operations Squadron
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Colonel Jones distinguished himself as the pilot of an A-IH Skyraider aircraft near Dong Hoi, North Vietnam. On that day, as the on-scene commander in the attempted rescue of a downed U.S. pilot, Colonel Jones’ aircraft was repeatedly hit by heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire. On one of his low passes, Colonel Jones felt an explosion beneath his aircraft and his cockpit rapidly filled with smoke. With complete disregard of the possibility that his aircraft might still be burning, he unhesitatingly continued his search for the downed pilot. On this pass, he sighted the survivor and a multiple-barrel gun position firing at him from near the top of a karst formation. He could not attack the gun position on that pass for fear he would endanger the downed pilot. Leaving himself exposed to the gun position, Colonel Jones attacked the position with cannon and rocket fire on two successive passes. On his second pass, the aircraft was hit with multiple rounds of automatic weapons fire. One round impacted the Yankee Extraction System rocket mounted directly behind the headrest, igniting the rocket. His aircraft was observed to burst into flames in the center fuselage section, with flames engulfing the cockpit area. He pulled the extraction handle, jettisoning the canopy. The influx of fresh air made the fire burn with greater intensity for a few moments, but since the rocket motor had already burned, the extraction system did not pull Colonel Jones from the aircraft. Despite searing pains from severe burns sustained on his arms, hands, neck, shoulders and face, Colonel Jones pulled his aircraft into a climb and attempted to transmit the location of the downed pilot and the enemy gun position to the other aircraft in the area. His calls were blocked by other aircraft transmissions repeatedly directing him to bailout, and within seconds, his transmitters were disabled, and he could receive only on one channel. Completely disregarding his injuries, he elected to fly his crippled aircraft back to his base and pass on essential information for the rescue rather than bail out. Colonel Jones successfully landed his heavily damaged aircraft and passed the information to a debriefing officer while on the operating table. As a result of his heroic actions and complete disregard for his personal safety, the downed pilot was rescued later in the day. Colonel Jones’ profound concern for his fellow man, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the Armed Forces of his country.
Aftger reading #68, it’s clear that calling Bush a “pilot” is insulting to these brave pilots who, unlike Bush, reported for duty.
RE: 52:
1. Rabbit says: Liberals gave us the Constitution, Bill of Rights, free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the rule of law, and due process of law.
I say, If in fact you believe that the founding fathers were liberal than I guess you have to also take credit for slavery, women can’t vote and the rape and plunder of the Indians.
2. Rabbit say: Rightwingers think it’s okay to arrest and imprison people without charge or trial, deny them access to a lawyer, and have no problem with beating, raping, sodomizing, torturing, or murdering people who have not been found guilty of anything. Right wingers think critics of, and dissenters from, their violent and… more idiotic left wing blather.
I say: Right wingers ended slavery and gave meaning to the hollow liberal constitution that “All men are created equal”
3. Rabbit says. Liberals gave us free public education, the cornerstone of our democracy and economic prosperity.
I say, In the most liberal state in the nation our schools are 45 in the nation. NICE JOB LIBERALS.
4. Rabbit says:Liberals gave us the 40-hour work week, overtime pay, minimum wage, child labor laws, workplace safety laws, injured workers benefits, unemployment insurance, collective bargaining rights, the G.I. Bill and veterans benefits, and Social Security and Medicare.Right wingers oppose minimum wage laws, overtime pay, unemployment benefits, safety regulation, and benefits for injured workers.
I say: Right wingers give you a job, get over it whiner.
Rabbit says: Rightwingers think these laws are “communism” and laugh at “tree huggers,” global warming, and science.
I say: and you point is ?
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Sep2005/sanders0905.html
Book
Review
Liberalism is a Mental Disorder
By Michael Savage
“For Savage, there’s no need to engage in an intelligent, fact-based dissection of something he disagrees with when a clever slur or epithet will do. Never mind that he blatantly rips off Rush Limbaugh.
Beyond Savage’s school-yard taunts and insults lie repeated examples of factual manipulation, lies, and intellectual dishonesty….”
Re: 53: Idiot Rabbit says. I’ve never met a single person willing to admit he voted for Nixon.
Since Roger Rabbit runs in liberal circals I am sure he only associates with liars like himself.
Actually I voted for Nixon as did 60.7% of americans. In fact Nixon won 49 of 50 states and 96.6 % of the electorial vote.
As usual Roger Rabbit is a liar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.....-Large.png
Rob: You are weak. We are strong.
We will bury you in ’08, and your dreams of a Nazi America will be as dust shaken from our feet.
“Get thee behind me Satan.”
Rob: Savage’s real last name is, “WIENER”! He’s a SAVAGE WIENER.
Right up your alley, huh, Rob?
Re: 56. Like i said , Clinton chikened out and dodged the draft. How many more times to you want me to repeat this?
Re: 69. I have never flown a F-102, I am sure you havn’t either. When you can walk the walk, talk the talk asswipe.
On the otherhand I have never driven a Volkswagon mini bus but I am sure you own one.
Re: 66, when was the last time we were attacked in America again.
Democrats have a long history of supporting defeat from the 60’s to today, embrace it democRAT!
Re: 73.
Harry pussy says: Rob: You are weak. We are strong.
I say: nobody pushing our military towards defeat is strong. I also say you are weak disgusting hippies and for the most part the same ones who degraded this country during the Vietnam War. If you look at the people in the “War Protests” you’ve seen them, it’s the same filty hippies only older. Of course there is only a few hundred of the left now.
@70
“If in fact you believe that the founding fathers were liberal than I guess you have to also take credit for slavery, women can’t vote and the rape and plunder of the Indians.”
They were the liberals of their time; the conservatives sided with the Crown — and were regarded as traitors.
“Right wingers ended slavery and gave meaning to the hollow liberal constitution that ‘All men are created equal'”
Bullshit. Lincoln was no rightwinger, and the conservatives of that time opposed giving blacks the right to vote.
“In the most liberal state in the nation our schools are 45 in the nation. NICE JOB LIBERALS.”
An utterly disingenous statement, because it is conservatives who originally opposed universal free education, and today oppose paying taxes to support public education while peddling various taxpayer-funded private education schemes that provide neither universal education nor equal access to education.
“Right wingers give you a job, get over it whiner.”
Like hell they do; rightwingers “give” workers nothing; they live off workers’ labor.
“You point is ?”
Liberals protect the environment; rightwingers exploit and destroy it, which is utter stupidity, because if you destroy the environment, you kill yourself and your species.
I wonder how many Republicans will even admit they were Republicans a few years from now — I’ve never met a single person willing to admit he voted for Nixon.
02/20/2007 at 10:04 pm
That is easy. The majority of America. Just because they didnt come out and vote in 06 doesnt mean they wont come out and vote in 08. Most Americans hate liberalism. Nuff said.
@72 “Actually I voted for Nixon”
I doubt that very much. Given that you’re not old enough to vote today, you certainly weren’t old enough to vote then. You weren’t even around.
Re: 79. Learn you history you pathetic liar.
81: I could care less what you believe considering your ridiculous Lie in #53, but lying is what you believe you are good at.
Nixon signed the extension of the right to vote act in 1970 which gave 18 year olds the right to vote.
It is really pathetic that you live on lies alone roger rabbit.
By the way I turned 18 in the summer of 1970 you lying little creep.
Did you know that Washington was one of the 49 states that Nixon carried. You should be careful what your friends lie to you about.
ROBTARD: YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. JUST TAUNTS AND SIMPLE-MINDED, RIGHT-WING SLOGANS. YOU DON’T HAVE THE FORCE OF REASON AT ALL BEHIND YOU. YOU HAVE LITTLE MORE THAN BLIND RAGE. AND YOU CLING TO YOUR NONSENSE BECAUSE IT’S MORE OR LESS ALL YOU HAVE.
I’D FEEL SORRY FOR YOU IF WHAT YOU REPRESENT IN OUR SOCIETY WASN’T SO DANGEROUS – THE AUTHORITARIAN IMPULSE.
GOT A GOOD MOVIE FOR YOU TO SEE ROBTARD – PAN’S LABYRINTH. THE VAIN, JACK-BOOTED FRANCO-FOLLOWING THUG WHO MURDERS AT THE DROP OF A HAT IS EXACTLY WHAT’S IN STORE FOR THIS COUNTRY IF YOUR MENTALITY IS GIVEN FREE REIGN.
Re: 85. Thanks for looking out for me Yos Libtard. I don’t watch left wing propaganda though so I will pass on your movie.
Here is a little movie from one of your democRAT senators and what she had to say about the god of democRATS, Bill Clinton on Meet the Press.
It isn’t very long so it shouldn’t challenge your attention span…to much. Hmmm maybe it will but try it anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ust%2Ehtml
@75 Clinton was not technically a “draft dodger,” and in fact did nothing illegal. At age 18, he enrolled in college and registered with the Selective Service System. As a full-time college student, he was entitled to a student deferment, which was automatically given to all full-time students in good academic standing at that time.
Clinton did so well in college he was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to study at Oxford University in England. However, at about that same time, graduate student deferments were eliminated and he became eligible for induction. Clinton legally avoided being drafted by obtaining a billet in the local naval reserve unit without serving – special treatment, yes, but special treatment that was commonly given to all Rhodes scholars. Nothing illegal (or unique to Clinton) about it.
Clinton completed his first term at Oxford in December 1969 and was ordered to report for an induction physical in January, an appointment he kept. In April 1969, he was ordered to report for induction, but he was back in England to continue attending Oxford, and due to the slowness of mail delivery he received his induction order after his induction date had passed. Because the school term at Oxford had already begun when he received the induction order, under Selective Service regulations in effect at the time, he was entitled to complete the current school term, but was obligated to report for induction in July 1969. Once again, Clinton was legally deferred.
At this point, Clinton took the actions that, while not illegal, were arguably questionable. Prior to his reporting date, he was accepted by the University of Arkansas for its law school and ROTC program, which got him an ROTC deferment and nullified his draft notice. There would be no issue if he had attended the University of Arkansas and participated in ROTC; but instead, he returned to Oxford. He still had not done anything illegal; he contacted his draft board to drop his ROTC deferment and return to active status. Fortuitously for him, by this time Selective Service regulations had changed to once again allow graduate students to complete their education before reporting for induction. Around this same time, the draft lottery was instituted, and Clinton lucked out again: He had a high enough draft lottery number to guarantee he would not be conscripted.
Clinton did nothing illegal. The controversy revolves around the fact he avoided induction by signing up for ROTC, then failed to participate in ROTC and eventually serve as an officer, which of course was the reason for giving him the ROTC deferment. It was an expectation he did not fulfill.
However, enrolling in ROTC was not an enlistment contract, and he was entitled to change his mind. If he signed up for ROTC intending to participate in ROTC, then he neither manipulated the ROTC program nor acted in bad faith. It’s easy to second-guess what his intentions were, but the fact is, the morality of his actions depends entirely on what his state of mind was, and there is no way to x-ray it or know from objective evidence what he was really thinking. His political enemies have chosen to infer that he never intended to attend ROTC and therefore obtained a fraudulent ROTC deferment, but they can’t prove that, and there certainly was no evidence on which he could have been prosecuted for draft evasion.
The fact is, Clinton was not prosecuted (much less convicted) for draft evasion. Although he was ordered to report for induction, and did not report, his failure to report was for good cause and legally excused; and the induction notice was subsequently withdrawn by his draft board. Having never enlisted in, or been conscripted into, the military of course he could not be legally AWOL or a deserter. Having done nothing criminal, and not having fled the country to avoid induction, he did not need or receive a pardon or amnesty from President Carter; he was not, in fact, a “draft dodger.”
I say arguably questionable because Clinton did go to extraordinary lengths to avoid being draft, at a time when many of his peers were serving in the military. From my point of view as a Vietnam veteran who would have been rejected for the draft as physically unfit but voluntarily accepted and got through the induction physical with some fast talking, and subsequently served a 13-month tour of duty with a front-line combat unit in Vietnam, all of Clinton’s machinations would have been inconsequential if he had eventually served. But the train of events, taken as a whole, don’t pass the “smell test” in my mind and so I considered him a “draft avoider” — and refused to vote for him, giving my vote to Perot in ’92 and Dole (a war hero) in ’96. In retrospect, I feel Clinton was a pretty good president, but was (and is) a man of flawed character. I punished him for his character deficiencies, and what I considered unseemly efforts to avoid military service, by withholding my vote. Dole is the only Republican presidential candidate I ever voted for; and given the current posture of the Republican Party, it’s unlikely I will ever vote for antoher one. For one thing, I find the aspersions that Republicans have cast upon the patriotism of people who share my political views to be so profoundly offensive that it is unlikely I will ever again vote for any Republican for any office; that is the kind of insult that is never forgotten or forgiven.
Unlike Clinton, George W. Bush’s absence from the TANG without authorization was prosecutable, as was his willful failure to take his flight physical. He could have been court-martialed. He wasn’t because his father was an influential congressman. But that doesn’t obviate the fact that he disobeyed his order and violated the law. And unlike Clinton, Bush did real damage: First, by occupying a pilot slot (and rendering no useful service in it) that otherwise would have been occupied by someone who would have actually served as a pilot; and second, by completely wasting the $1 million or so that taxpayers invested in his flight training. They should have reamed his ass for that; in light of the fact he committed these acts during wartime, it was also dishonorable, as well as offensive to those of us who fulfilled our duty on the battlefield.
What it boils down to is this: Clinton and Bush were both shirkers, in my opinion, and I punished both by voting for neither of them; the difference between me and the trollfucks on this board is that I criticize Clinton for what he did, even though he did nothing illegal, whereas they refuse to acknowledge that Bush did anything questionable, even though what he did was a court-martial offense.
Can you say “partisan hypocrisy”? That’s what wingnut criticism of Clinton is. It would be different if they also criticized Bush, instead of turning a blind eye to his infractions.
I have to get to bed now Yos Libtard, while I believe you mean well I also believe you are truly misinformed. As for Roger Rabbit, I believe he is a pathetic liar.
Have a good night.
@87 erratum
“voluntarily enlisted” not “voluntarily accepted”
@76 And as many times as you falsely stated that Clinton “dodged” the draft, I’ll reply that Clinton was not a “draft dodger” as that term was commonly understood at the time.
@77 how would you know? you don’t know YLB, so how can you presume to say what kind of car he drives, you arrogant little prick?
Besides, what’s wrong with VW buses, besides the fact they had no torque and you needed first gear to climb any grade over 2%? They were cheap cars for young people who couldn’t afford anything fancier. A lot of people were able to go surfin’, camping and hiking, or whatever because of their VW buses.
Like to see you get a surfboard into a Yuppiemobile.
ROBTARD – CLINTON’S NOT MY GOD ROBTARD. ANY POLITICIAN WHO HAS THE TALENT AND SUPPORT TO PASS THROUGH THE GAUNTLET OF OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM TO ATTAIN THE HIGHEST OFFICE MUST BE FLAWED IN SOME WAY.
CLINTON IS ONLY MUCH, MUCH BETTER THAN THE DISASTER YOU VOTED FOR ROBTARD. CLINTON LEFT THIS COUNTRY IN SURPLUS. THE IDIOT YOU SUPPORT WILL LEAVE THE COUNTRY FIERCELY DIVIDED AND MIRED IN DEBT.
IF THAT’S YOUR IDEA OF A GREAT LEADER I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU. FORTUNATELY MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT LIKE YOU AS NOV 7 CLEARLY SHOWED.
@78 “when was the last time we were attacked in America again”
Since I consider violent attacks against abortion clinics, and acts of eco-terrorism, to be acts of “terrorism” I would say there have been numerous “terrorist attacks” in America since 9/11/2001 and these are ongoing.
Excluding attacks against abortion clinics and providers, and eco-attacks, there have been eight:
7 anthrax letters mailed in September and October 2001, resulting in 5 deaths; and
a shooting at L.A. airport in 2002 by a foreign national that resulted in the deaths of 2 Israelis.
@79 “nobody pushing our military towards defeat”
Once again, rob falsifies what liberals stand for. The U.S. defeat in Iraq is a fact, even though wingnuts won’t acknowledge it; and the fact liberals realize the U.S. has been defeated in Iraq doesn’t mean we caused the defeat. The U.S. military failure in Iraq is a product of poor planning and execution by the GOP administration; Democrats and liberals had absolutely no role in that, so the GOP is solely and wholly responsible for the U.S.’s political and military disaster in Iraq. To insist on throwing away more lives in that morass, when there is no prospect of success, is irresponsible. Yet that is what Republicans want to do. The majority of the American people disagree; polls show two-thirds of the U.S. public now wants out of Iraq. Bush doesn’t have a winning strategy; 4 years of failrue proves that. How many more years of war and American lives should we give to a proven loser in order that he may further cement his reputation for history as a political and military incompetent? It seems to me, rob, that if you want to invest more American blood in this venture, you should be there, not here.
Actually, unlike Vietnam, Bush could honestly “declare victory and get out” because his stated objectives in Iraq have, in fact, been secured:
a) Iraq has no WMDs threatening the U.S.
b) Saddam has been removed from power.
The reason we don’t get out is because the U.S. invasion created two new problems:
c) With Saddam gone, Iraq has descended into civil war; and
d) The invasion opened Iraq to Al Qaeda and other terrorist elements.
The civil war may end up killing more Iraqis than Saddam did, thus constituting the invasion a worse evil than Saddam’s rule; and if Iraq ends up a haven for terrorists, the invasion will have made America less safe.
Way to go, wingnuts! It takes hard work to be even more detrimental to the Iraqi people AND America’s security than Saddam ever was, but you pigfuckers somehow managed it.
@81 Republicans did vote in ’06 and we kicked your butts.
@84 “By the way I turned 18 in the summer of 1970 you lying little creep.”
How did you manage to remain 10 years old for 45 years?
wow! This thread is already up to 100 posts! That’s more than the creepy little jihad blog gets all year.
@88 Thank you! I consider being called a “liar” by your ilk as a badge of honor.
@94 Bush, of course, is not a great leader; he is an abject failure. He is a man of bad character, who has lived a failed life, who rose through family wealth and power not merit or accomplishment. As president, he slept on the job while our enemies plotted the worst attack against America since Pearl Harbor; led our nation into a disastrous (and lost) war; trashed our alliances and dragged our national reputation into the mud; and, at home, created the deepest divisions in our society since the Civil War. History will not be kind to this man; the best he can hope future historians will say about him is that he was a fucking idiot who was in over his head.
Goldy/Roger
Shame on you for your lies about your service..
I am not a vet, but at least I don’t pretend to be one…
pathetic
WRONG STUFF:
GOLDY AND ROGER ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. ANYONE WHO’S ATTENDED A DL CAN TELL YOU THAT.
I’LL DEFER TO ROGER PUT YOU IN YOUR PLACE ABOUT HIS SERVICE IN VIETNAM.
Excuse me, but did it ever occur to anyone that if we just don’t react to flatulence of the wingnuts, they’ll get bored and crawl back to their septic tanks???? I think they just get a lot of glee out of the amount of bandwidth we waste responding to their inflammations. It’s their whole reason for coming here.
Sure, They’re both there because they are the same person.
Pay for the War!
And where is the fun in that?
Oh, and for Mr. Stuff –
It’s pretty obvious to everyone that even you should be able to figure out that Roger and Goldy are two different people.
Of course, the fact that wingnuts would deliberately lie for no reason more important than to disrupt a reasonable debate that was not going their way (do reasonable debates ever go their way?) is also not news to anyone here.
And as a Veteran, with over twenty years service, I believe Roger’s account of his service. Since you are just a wingnut chickenhawk, your opinion matters very little.
Additionally, Roger has actively supported and promoted services, like Operation Helmet ( http://www.operation-helmet.org ) that actively help our Soldiers and Marines in the field.
(Note to Roger – my local Lions Club branch has sponsored a refit kit, and are challenging the main club to match it. You might consider getting the word out to your local service clubs. Especially Rotary. Those folks are great at raising money.)
You, on the other hand, have not seen fit to serve our country, but are happy enough to keep yourself safe at home while others fight and bleed and die for you. Your answer to just about anything Roger has to say should start with the phase “thank you for your service, Mr. Rabbit”. Then you may then respectfully disagree with him, should you find yourself with the entirely mistaken impression that you have an opinion worth taking up an otherwise useful portion of a computer screen.
There have been some right wingers that post here that have served. While I won’t call the treatment they have received “nice”, there is an entirely different attitude towards them. Essentially, when someone has served and put their own life on the line they get much more respectful treatment when defending this war than some chickenhawk.
You may go now.
I do not, have not, and will not disrespect vets. Plenty in my family.
“Additionally, Roger has actively supported and promoted services, like Operation Helmet ( http://www.operation-helmet.org ) that actively help our Soldiers and Marines in the field.”
And just how do you know this?
Goldy/Rabbit claims operation helmet as his charity.
I just don’t believe it. I don’t believe him.
“You, on the other hand, have not seen fit to serve our country, but are happy enough to keep yourself safe at home while others fight and bleed and die for you.”
Yes, true but what has that got to do with Goldy? has Goldy served? no. I am very respectful to vets and those who serve, including police, and fire fighters. I do thank YOU for your service, but have determined that Rabbit is a figment of Goldy’s imagination.
I don not use profanity or try to insult people in a vindictive manner, and have always been civil on this site. Something that cannot be said of Goldy/Rabbit.
I offer Roger the opportunity right now to meet me in person and settl matter. I’m buying.
My only regret is donating to Goldy for his pledge “vacation” drive…
The pattern of roger/Goldy’s posts mirror each other. When was the last time Roger wasn’t posting his brains out? Suddenly he is gone….convieniently goldy is traveling and not posting either. Then, wouldn’t you know it, Goldy shows up to post and gee, there is Roger right on cue.
I have been suspicious for a while, and if wrong would eat serious crow… Roger can do that very easily. Meet me and we can break bread together.
Sure, They’re both there because they are the same person.
WRONG STUFF – YOU ARE LIVING UP TO YOUR NAME. I HAVE SEEN THEM BOTH WITH MY OWN EYES AT DL. ROGER RABBIT HAS CALLED GOLDY’S RADIO SHOW.
YOU HAVE JUMPED TO A WRONG CONCLUSION BASED ON HARDLY ANY EVIDENCE.
HELL RICHARD POPE MET ROGER RABBIT – TALK TO POPE.
@3 That’s not true. As folks who — unlike you — actually show up for DL know, Roger Rabbit does attend DL occasionally.
@109 I don’t give a shit what you believe, or don’t believe. But I’m actually surprised you’re the FIRST wingnut who has questioned the bona fides of my $99 donation to Operation Helmet. Anticipating this would happen some day, I took the cancelled check to DL and showed it to two people so they could act as witnesses if the question ever came up: Goldy and DJ. But if you don’t believe me, you won’t believe them either, will you?
As for my military service, once again I don’t give a shit what you think. I have no obligation, moral or otherwise, to show you my DD-214. I know what I did, and that’s enough.
If the truth be told, plenty of people did way more than me: I have no valor medals, no Purple Heart. I was 50%^ REMF and 50% lucky. When I arrived in-country, I was sent to a unit where there was plenty of opportunity to get killed. Among other things, one of my fellow soldiers in my unit won a Medal of Honor. I also served in the Army Reserve with, among others, a gentleman who won a DSC in Vietnam. Getting a picture here? FUBAR war, great soldiers; I’m proud to have served with them. If you want to say I’m making all this up, go right ahead; you lie about everything else, so you may as well go all the way and lie about this, too.
Where are all the proud Americans that want to pay for this war? Men and Women sacrificing life and limb, while we all have a grand ole time.
Roger, one of these days you and I must get together and swap stories. I just missed Viet Nam (thank God) and my involvement with that mess was to help pick up a few of the pieces. Great people, the Vietnamese. We had almost 150 of them camped out on the fantail of the USS Long Beach for a while. Picked them up in the Gulf of Thailand.
Takes all the fun out of watching Disney pirates when you’ve seen the aftermath of real ones.
The only possible justification for continuing this insane war is that when we leave, a bunch of decent folks that relied on us will be in deep trouble. If I thought that there was any chance of sanity in the administration, with a willingness to actually try to solve some of the issues involved, I’d probably find myself agreeing with them, despite my opinion of how we got into this mess.
But that would include actual diplomacy with Iran and Syria to try and bring some degree of stability to the region.
A snowball’s chance where?
It appears that I owe Roger a BIG Apology. I was very skeptical that Roger was in fact Goldy. After reaching this conclusion it struck me that Roger/Goldy had been claiming to be a vet etc. which I took exception too. I unfortunately made the leap. Enough people have verified meeting Roger that I now intend to eat crow. First I want to reiterate that I try to maintain a profanity free, personal attatck free approach while posting here. I enjoy this blog because it provides a forum for a view that differs from mine, and for the most part a civil discussion of issues and polictics.
Roger thank you for your service. As with all people who serve their country, I am always amazed at the sacrifices that the men and women in uniform make every day. Not only those who are serving but the incredible sacrifices of their families as well.
Please accept my apology and I hope to continue the lively debate in a respectful manner.