Yeah sure, I’m depressed over yesterday’s election, but when I sat down to write a thorough race-by-race analysis and looked for a clear message in last night’s results, two things immediately jumped out at me: A) a thorough race-by-race analysis would take me days to write; and B) there is no clear message in last night’s results. So I think I’ll discard with A), opting instead for a series of individual posts analyzing individual races and issues. As for B), I suppose that’s the silver lining to the dark clouds filling my head today, for while yesterday’s election certainly sucked — and sucked hard — I see nothing to suggest any long term good news for the folks on the other side.
In purely partisan terms, yesterday’s election says very little. Republicans won the only truly contested partisan race in King County, but they did so on a bullshit theme of non-partisanship, so while they certainly keep the tactical advantage of holding the PAO, it’s kinda hard to argue that this is in anyway an embrace of Republican values. (As for my friend Jim Nobles… how does it feel to draw a substantially smaller percentage of the vote than Richard Pope?) Meanwhile, across the county line to the north, Democrats romped in high profile Snohomish County council races, while Democrat John Lovick appears to be squeaking by in the nominally non-partisan sheriff’s contest.
Across the region Republicans continue to hold their own in so-called “non-partisan” races, though that’s always difficult to analyze when candidates refuse to cop to their party allegiance and our local media plays a complicit role in perpetrating the charade. Still, progressive candidates appear to be making gains in both Whatcom County and Tacoma, while Gael Tarleton’s win means control of the Seattle Port Commission now hinges on the outcome of the nail-biter between incumbent reformer Alec Fisken and pro-business lackey Bill Bryant. We’ll see.
Looking to the ballot measures for trends is equally fruitless. Prop 1 infamously split the progressive community, so there’s no clear message from voters there, other than the usual “we want more, but we don’t want to pay for it” crap, while I-960’s public policy disaster is emblematic of the same muddled thinking. R-67 was simply a battle between good and evil, and the failure of Simple Majority… well… um… I’m just stumped.
Of course, all this took place within a national context, and there Democrats have reason to be optimistic. Dems lost the governor’s mansion in the southern state of Louisiana, but picked up one in a bloodbath in the border state of Kentucky. Dems also picked up Senate majorities in Virginia and Mississippi, while expanding legislative majorities in Maine, New Jersey and New York. As for Ohio, that continues to be a disaster in the making for Republicans, where Dems now hold the mayor’s office in the once red state’s ten largest cities. Ouch.
So what does this all say about our local prospects for 2008? Not all that much. But if you’re a “no news is good news” kinda person, then I suppose that might take a bit of the sting out yesterday’s very disappointing election.
UPDATE:
Of course, I didn’t even mention turnout. Turnout sucked. Yet another reason not to read too much into these results. Apparently, Republicans turned out a bit better than Dems, but I’m told the real fall off was with independents… who tend to vote with the Dems on many issues.
“A) a thorough race-by-race analysis would take me days to write; and B) there is no clear message in last night’s results.”
I can do it in one sentence: Voters are tired of regressive taxes.
I see a bright shining light streaming from those clouds, Goldy: Tax reform is coming. Yes, it’s coming! The Second Coming of Taxes is nigh! Washington has finally had it with taxing the poor while the rich skate. Remember, voters have not only rejected raising regressive taxes to pay for expensive boondoggles, they also rejected repealing the inheritance tax. They not only rejected light rail and the Monorail, they also rejected a $500 million baseball stadium and $500 million basketball palace. It’s just a matter of time before a messiah appears to lead us to the promised land of a State Income Tax. Wait and see.
So the City of Seattle plans to spend $240 million over 20 years on bike lanes. How many people commute to work on bicycles? 20,000?* (*wild guess) That’s $12,000 per bicycle commuter. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, I’m just saying …
@2…RR…
Have you mistaken mary jane for lettuce in your nibbling?
Voters said said they’re tired of taxes, period!
The Piper
@2 .. RR
I think you are on to something. I wonder how it can be turned to a progressive outcome?
One idea that intrigues me is replacing the sales tax with a wealth tax. The idea is that the wealthy get more than the rest of us in services so they should pay for it.
I like the idea of coupling such a tax to educational reform. The state has real secret weapon above the Montlake Cut BUT we do an effin bad job if using UW resources around the state.
Lets hire Tim Eynman for an Initiative Campaign. I am not sure abut what would be in it but we could call it Opportunity Washington.
The nurts and bolts:
We propose a statewide, annual tax on all personal property in excess of 1.5 million dollars.
Funds fomr this wealth tax would go toward increasing educational opportunities, including ….
OW we could do the same thing but add in a Lottery,
You know, that bullshit about how high taxes are is the real legacy of the GOP. Roger, you are not overtaxed, nor have you ever been threatened to be. You’re a goddamn whiner.
Prop 1. would have been spit in the wind compared to your carrot budget. This ongoing we can’t afford it meme is really damaging, and ultimately serves the real beneficiaries of our economy, the ultra rich.
Your math is bullshit too, try applying that kind math to subsidies of automobiles. Include health costs from using too many of them because cheap assholes keep saying we can’t afford to develop transporation systems other than what GM likes.
SeattleJew, you are lost in the clouds to even bother to discuss such changes in our current political climate. Yes sales taxes are regressive, but lots of luck changing that. You are a nurtjob.
Scott, you’re just a plain asshole. ‘Nuff said.
@8…Aaron…
Thank you. May I quote you? Your stirling and insightful analysis is wisdom for the ages.
Tell me…do you write your own material? Or are you not allowed sharp objects in the institution? Please advise…
The Piper
I’d say that one pattern that emerges from all this is “money talks”, either in the form of campaign dollars paid for media exposure or the public’s perception that something or someone is going to extract their hard-earn greenbacks from their pockets. Certainly the people’s reaction of “That’s going to cost HOW MUCH????” with respect to Prop. 1 may have carried over into an undeserved benefit for Eyman’s latest offering of snake oil.
There’s also an unfortunate possibility that Goldy’s hammering on the prosecutor’s race actually helped turn it into a partisan slugfest–although as I stated earlier, there may be some sort of hidden agenda there. I dunno about the rest of you, but I’m sure going to be paying a lot more attention to what goes on in the prosecutor’s office in the future. I’ll certainly hope that he shows up for work in his Clark Kent suit and that there are no more signs of the Superman outfit with the big letter “R” on the chest. If you see the guy step into a phone booth, better grab what’s yours.
@4 “Voters said said they’re tired of taxes, period!”
No wonder you didn’t cut the mustard as a lawyer, Scott! You lack even a basic ability to come up with practical solutions to real-life problems.
Of course people don’t like taxes! Who does? Kids don’t like vaccinations, either, but that doesn’t mean parents should do without them. Just because people don’t like taxes doesn’t mean we can do without government. Real minds (you can stand reading now; this next part is above your grade level) will devote themselves to figuring out how to raise funds for necessary government with taxes that are fair and workable.
Just for you, Crackpiper, here’s a transportation plan that will satisfy your no-taxes criterion: http://www.bahiker.com/picture.....6trail.jpg
@6
Prop 1. would have been spit in the wind compared to your carrot budget. This ongoing we can’t afford it meme is really damaging, and ultimately serves the real beneficiaries of our economy, the ultra rich.
———————————-
Can you tell us what Prop 1 would have cost a typical household yearly in terms of all ST, ST2 and RTID taxes, Aaron?
Richard Pope should give up elective politics and become a muckraker journalist. That’s his real calling.
Meanwhile, last time I checked the stock markets, the Dow is down over 250 points and Washington Mutual plunged $4 today to just above $20 a share (down from $46 less than a year ago).
I don’t know… the King County Elections site is posting exactly the opposite of what the papers are reporting re Initiative 960.
The last story on the PI has the timeline of 12:52 am, while the most recent results on the King Co website are 1:04 am.
Maybe I-960 is actually failing?
@12
Maybe we can all get horses and ride to work. I hope my workplace will provide a stable and a hay ration. I’ll invest in a bay Morgan if so.
Our transportation options are so ca. 1807!
“Richard Pope should give up elective politics and become a muckraker journalist.” Think there’s enough room in the muck, for a new player, with Goldstein hogging it all?
I think Richard should be the new Roger, rooting thru Shark’s document dump like a pig thru truffles.
Meanwhile, last time I checked the stock markets, the Dow is down over 250 points and Washington Mutual plunged $4 today to just above $20 a share (down from $46 less than a year ago).
———————————–
Right, and this behavior is adding to the anxiety of a lot of people who have 401Ks or pensions or other investment accounts. In this environment Prop 1 especially looked a little too gilded aside from other fundamental issues.
15 – Yes I-960 is failing – in King County!
Roger Rabbit @ 14
ELECTIVE politics?
I don’t know, King Co is rejecting Eyeman, looks like the rest of the state went for it pretty heavily. My bad.
@20, Yes, my bad!
Low blood sugar, need to go get some lunch! :-\
@12…RR…
Thanks for the pic link of your retirement home! Looks perfect for you!
The people are tired of taxes because they get essentially bupkis in return save more taxes.
The quality of so-called “leadership” around sucks so bad, that voters across the board were in a “throw the bums out” mood.
The fury that Seattle voters showed against incumbents on the school board is illustrative. Talk about electoral humiliation! Here again is an example of wasteful and stupid government with the people fighting back by handing the so-called “progressives” their Lenin caps and Mao hats. Take that to your institutional racism conference and shove it!
I’m willing to pay taxes for value and necessary stuff. Too much of what government does is clearly unnecessary, witness the silly $24 million bicycle plan that you panned yourself. Voters see this crap floated, and they take their revenge out any way they can.
Better bury the bike boondoggle, Mayor Quarters, or you’re next!
To so many HA Happy Hooligans, it’s de rigeuer that only high taxes and big, expensive, intrusive, and bloated government can make for a good quality of life. Get a clue, people! The quality of your life is your responsibility, not the government’s.
That there’s a singular and growing distrust of our so-called “leaders” is clearly shown in the blow-out victory of I-25. All the “competent rhetoric” talk was so much emperor’s new cloths compared to the evidence of boffed elections, botched voters’ pamphlets, and bungled absentee ballots. Go figure!
Come out of the darkness, rabbit, and into the light…I’ll save you a seat!
The Piper
Richard:
I know my sister lives in that district and voted for you, because she dislikes Jane Hague and her recent newsiness, and liked that fact that you don’t drink. Alas, one of 40%. You did pretty well, though, all said.
Maybe we should wait until the absentee ballots that were mailed yesterday are counted before we decide who won or lost. There are over 400,000 King County absentee ballots that have not been returned.
The wealthy should pay more because they get more in services??? Are you kidding me or are you just a shill for the liberal cause?
I am one of “the wealthy” (income $350K+/year). My kids go to private schools. I draw no welfare or SS or medicare. I drive a car about 10K miles/year on the same roads you do. I get the same police protection as everyone else in my eastside city – and I have never used it. My life is the same as most of our neighbors… although we pay more in property and sales tax than most, we have fewer dealings with the government than most to, especially since one of our largest taxes, for public schools, is something we don’t take advantage of. (However, I religiously support the public schools, and I contribute to the local schools foundation).
Exactly what service do I get that is more than anyone else?
Seattle Jew said: “One idea that intrigues me is replacing the sales tax with a wealth tax. The idea is that the wealthy get more than the rest of us in services so they should pay for it.”
Nah, those of us that are ‘wealthy’ are just better at saving than the poor – so, that wont fly in this house.
@28, good points!
Those of us making our own way are penalized for *not* using the social services.
I’d like to see the idiots in Olympia try a ‘wealth’ tax – those of us with money would just save even more and they’d wind up actually having to tax the ‘poor’ in order to meet their bloated budgets.
But come on liberals! Keep those stupid ideas flowing! We want Dino to have an easy time getting back into the Governor’s mansion … so dont stop with those tax initiatives!
@6 You are right, to a point — Washington as a whole is not overtaxed. By any reasonable measure, Washington’s overall state and local taxes are about average. But Washington does suffer from maldistribution of tax burdens.
As for the affordability of Prop. 1, you’re right and the voters are wrong? Okay, think this, if it makes you happy.
After you calm down, you may realize Prop. 1 wasn’t defeated by my whining. My whining was merely a mirror reflecting what was wrong with Prop. 1 that caused it to fail. Prop. 1 was defeated by Prop. 1.
How much do you earn, Aaron? Does your household make over $75,000 a year? If so, you probably don’t notice the disparity in tax burdens. And if you make over $100,000 a year, you may be positively enjoying that disparity.
I suspect you’re doing all right, because YOUR whining exhibits the patronizing arrogance that smugly prosperous liberals sometimes exhibit toward those with less margin for discretionary spending. In any case, you seem challenged in understanding those to whom price matters.
Finally, you are doing yourself (and our side) no good by calling Prop. 1 a “spit in the wind.” Prop. 1 would have cost every household in the far-flung taxing district hundreds of dollars a year. For most people, that’s not a “spit in the wind,” and calling it such as insulting.
@7 With a negative attitude like yours, what chance would tax reform have in any climate?
Aaahhhh, but this is the day after. Everyone should be allowed 1 day for self-pity, finger-pointing, and bitter recriminations. Like alcohol, disappointment needs 24 hours to purge itself from your system. I believe the official medical term for this condition is “election hangover.” We all need to rest for a day or two, then roll up our sleeves and go back to work solving our state’s problems in a way that actually works. That’s too tall an order for today. Everyone should get a vacation from taxing intellectual activity today, set the brain on autopilot, and take two aspirins. If you don’t feel better by tomorrow, take the whole fucking bottle of aspirins! That’s guaranteed to cure all your ills.
@9 Stirling is a battlefield in Scotland.
@28 Huh?
Huh? says:
The wealthy should pay more because they get more in services??? Are you kidding me or are you just a shill for the liberal cause?
I am one of “the wealthy” (income $350K+/year). My kids go to private schools. I draw no welfare or SS or medicare. I drive a car about 10K miles/year on the same roads you do. I get the same police protection as everyone else in my eastside city – and I have never used it. My life is the same as most of our neighbors… although we pay more in property and sales tax than most, we have fewer dealings with the government than most to, especially since one of our largest taxes, for public schools, is something we don’t take advantage of. (However, I religiously support the public schools, and I contribute to the local schools foundation).
Exactly what service do I get that is more than anyone else?
I
I do not know about your life style to answer your question but as a start, how about your income itself? Where does it come from? Are you the recipient of a Saudi family government largesse? Or did you find oil somewhere? Or could it be that your earnings in some part depend on the services of our government?
The government, at a minimum, creates the “credits” you call dollars. … unless you are still on the gold standard.
If your income depends on our national security, then you are getting $350k/my salary benefit from the defence budget.
Since or system is regressive i would kinds sorta bet you also have more property than I do and that is in excess of the $350/my ratio. Your disposable income is far higher than mine as well.
The bottom line, we both live in a society structured by a social contract. The tax system is simply a means to optimize the fairness of that contract.
Roger –
I’ll happily trade in the sales tax for an income tax. One ballot on a constitutional change establishing an income tax and abolishing the sales tax. The two must be linked, because I don’t trust the legislature and governor to not raise taxes despite their promises to the contrary.
@15 You’re forgetting that I-960 is a statewide initiative. It’s failing in King County, but is passing in the rest of the state.
Hmmmmmm……
It appears David Goldstein is a sore loser….and out of touch with the average working person who is tired of dumping more & more $$ down an ineffective transportation shithole….and tired of just “trusting” the so-called Progressive fuckheads.
Wake-up David.
Lots of people hate Bush….but they hate the Democratic Party too.
Bottom-line: People no longer trust government on all levels. Your pals are not immune David. The vast majority of people are looking for cost-effective leadership.
Can you spell R-O-S-S-I.
One idea that intrigues me is replacing the sales tax with a wealth tax. The idea is that the wealthy get more than the rest of us in services so they should pay for it.
We propose a statewide, annual tax on all personal property in excess of 1.5 million dollars.
Your wish for redistribution won’t happen becuase the Democrats who run this state are part of the “wealthy” and don’t want it.
At least the lying, shameless insurance industry got its short hairs plucked on R67.
An income tax will NEVER be enacted in this state. Not in this lifetime. Part of the reason is that nobody trusts the politicians in this state to make good on the promise to repeal the sales tax. What would happen is, they would reduce the sales tax some 3-4%, leaving us with a 5-6% sales tax, AND we would have an income tax. Within a few years there would be legislation and ballot measures to raise the sales tax, 1% at a time to where a few years later we would be right back where we are now, but with a permanent income tax. No thank you!
@17 It would be more accurate to say our transportation options are circa 1960.
Seattle’s road congestion is a classic example of twin phenomena of “price rationing” and “free goods.” Roads aren’t free, of course. But once you’ve paid for them, their is no additional charge for using them, so you pay the same whether you use roads a lot or a little.
This has the practial effect of turning existing roads into “free goods.” The demand for a free good is higher than demand for a good for which a fee or cost is charged upon consumption. Our extensive network of “free good” public roadways encourages people to locate far from their jobs, and do more recreational and frivolous driving than they would otherwise. A combination of cheap gas and free public roadways created a society of people who think nothing of driving two miles to a taco stand during lunch breaks. Gas is no longer cheap (in most people’s minds) but ingrained habits are hard to break and it will take time for most people to learn thrifty driving habits. And they probably won’t like it, as they’ve come to regard hopping in a car and going wherever they like whenever they like as a sort of American birthright.
The truth is, our society has adopted lifestyles and forms of social and economic organization that are extremely resource-wasteful and which cannot be sustained. Our country’s vast resources, indeed the world’s, are insufficient to sustain them. We have to remake our society, but it can’t be done overnight, or through compulsion.
Cars will remain the principal form of transportation in the Seattle area for the next decade, at least. That’s just a fact of life. The infrastructure that cars require should be built by taxing car drivers, period. Gas taxes, tolls, congestion pricing — NOT sales taxes, property taxes, or high MVETs on vehicles that are seldom driven. If you subsidize roads with taxes on other sectors of household budgets and the economy, you create more “free goods” that encourages greater use of cars, and more frivolous driving. That’s the wrong lane to travel.
5 – the “wealth” you propose to tax has ALREADY been taxed!! Come up with some REAL ideas and lets talk.
““we want more, but we don’t want to pay for it” crap”
You need mega-funding to go along with a building a mega project. There should have been some federal and state dollars in there. Totally unfair to saddle so few people with such a huge bill.
Actually, the gas tax is not a perfect tax. This state is going to have problems with the gas tax. The U.S. vehicle fleet turns over, on average, about every 10 years. When gas prices go up, people don’t rush out and buy better-mileage cars, but gas prices do influence people’s choices when they are in the market for a new car. What we have on the road today is the fleet of SUVs, soccer vans, pickups, and performance cars that people bought when gas was $1.25. As these vehicles are replaced with fuel-thriftier cars, gas tax revenues will fall but the number of vehicles on the road and the need for road capacity won’t.
This means the current gas tax will pay for less road construction and maintenance in the years ahead, and will have to be raised again just to keep the existing road capacity intact. This doesn’t mean drivers will pay more total gas tax; it simply means they’ll have to pay a higher per-gallon tax in order to keep paying the same total gas taxes. When you drive a 30 mpg car, you must pay twice the per-gallon tax in order to pay the same total amount of taxes you paid driving a 15 mpg car. But to most of the public, it will feel like a tax increase.
Well, 960 should be no surprise. There are always plenty of greedy people who don’t care about public services until they get screwed. And, there are lots of folks on the eastside who don’t care about the integrity of sideshow barkers like Eyeman, and don’t mind that his projects are entirely self serving.
He’ll be here gloating soon, and when the courts throw out his phony initiative, he’ll blame the justices for thwarting the “will of the people”. He’ll be the3 same worthless con man he was 10 years ago. Remember the Righteous DeLay? Abramoff? He’s just a feeble imitation. He’ll end up the same.
So what? George Bush and Uncle Dick put it over on a gullible public for 6 years with stakes a lot higher than anything we have going regionally or locally.
When Eyeman’s capers have the same result here that the citizens of California are enjoying for similar crap, then the light will dawn.
When Bush attacks Iran and gas jumps abruptly to 8-10 dollars per gallon, there will be a rapid rethinking of priorities and the forging of a workable mass-transit option.
Let the wackos gloat. Their bankrupt philosophy will come back to bite then in the ass, and it’ll be on a lot larger scale than the relatively trivial issues being decided this year.
@45…Chad T….
Bitter bleating, indeed!
You even link I-960 to Bush/Cheney! Expected, though not clever or original.
You sure will win converts to your cause with comments like the ones you penned.
The Piper
@42 Not all of it has. A large percentage of inherited wealth has never been taxed. No income tax, no sales tax, no property tax, no capital gains tax, no tax of any kind has ever been paid on much of the country’s inherited wealth.
This is because heirs get a stepped-up tax basis on the inherited property. Let’s say grandpa bought farmland outside Marysville 50 years ago for $50,000, but the town has grown and this property is now commercially zoned and worth $1,500,000. Grandpa never paid income or capital gains tax on the $1,450,000 difference because he never sold it. When he died and his kids inherited it, they got a stepped-up basis of $1,500,000, so if they sell it next year for $1,600,000, their taxable gain will be $100,000, not $1,550,000. And because of the $1,500,000 inheritance tax exemption, they will pay no taxes on $1,450,000 difference between what grandpa paid for it and what they got, either. That $1,450,000 will never be taxed.
If a person begins working at age 18 and works continuously until he’s 66, he would have to earn on average $30,200 a year for 48 earns to make $1,450,000 by working for it. Given today’s exemptions and personal deductions, about three-quarters of that income will be taxed.
This illustrates just how unfair our tax system is, and what an outrageously good deal heirs have under our tax laws. The message Congress has sent is clear: Don’t work for money, inherit it! If you inherit money or property, you will be rewarded under our tax laws. If you work, our tax laws will punish you. Working is for saps, suckers, fools! THERE IS NO REASON FOR ANY AMERICAN TO WORK. Our tax laws, societal attitudes, and employer behavior all work together to punish people for working. We should start a General Strike right now! No more work! Let the Republican business owners do their own fucking work! Until wages get the same tax exemptions that inheritances do, we should all refuse to work!
I don’t work. I don’t have to. Society doesn’t want me to, and won’t let me. I live by owning property: I own a legally enforceable claim against a portion of the income earned by the state pension fund’s investments, I own a legally enforcable share of the country’s Social Security and Medicare entitlements, and (of course) I own investments that produce capital gains, interest, and dividends. So why the fuck should I work? I don’t take out anyone’s garbage anymore. I don’t sweep floors, clean toilets, make pizzas, empty bedpans, sort mail, dig ditches, shoot at Viet Congs, or write legal briefs anymore. I’ve done all of those things in the past, but now I do absolutely nothing! That’s because the tax system punishes me for working, and I don’t have to work, so I don’t. All this crap about work being “virtuous” and “good for the character” is wingnut mythology taught to you in grade school by Republicans who are trying to brainwash you into doing their work for them so they don’t have to work! Let ’em do their own fucking work! You owe them nothing.
Your highest and best function in society, my friends, is to sit around doing nothing while you wait to inherit a shitload of money! The tax laws say so.
@45 Dinsmore eventually will go through his $300 million, and then Eyman will be out of work. Except it’s hard to believe Dinsmore is that stupid. Which leads me to suspect Dinsmore is somehow funding Eyman’s crusades with other people’s money — money that gullible investors have entrusted to Dinsmore’s investment firm.
@45 “workable mass-transit”
“Workable” is the key word here. We don’t need and can’t afford ultra-expensive pie-in-the-sky transportation that takes 20 years to build. We need mass transit that can actually be built, that people will actually use, and that we can afford to pay for — and lots of it.
@46 And how are Bush and Cheney NOT responsible for skyrocketing costs of steel, concrete, and lumber; devaluation of the dollar; cuts in federal programs that assist state and local governments with domestic infrastructure needs; stagnant real wages; increased federal spending; sending American jobs and cash to India and China to make it easier for them to compete against us for oil and other resources; ad nauseum?
You’re damn fucking right Bush and Cheney are to blame!!
These things are not accidents of nature, or acts of God. They are the predictable, anticipated, and intentional results of the policies adopted by the WingNut (TM) Administration and their appointed lackeys, and encouraged by the cheerleading and applauding of idiots like you, Crackpiper.
@28 Let me guess. You make your $350K a year in a line of business that receives no government subsidies or contracts, uses no taxpayer-financed infrastructure, employs no taxpayer-educated workers, does not use the banking system, never moves people or materiel by air, etc.?
Roger Rabbit you are on fire today! Good job. Yes, suburban sprawl is subsidized. Yes, our tax system is tilted toward unearned income. And ordinary folks are so pissed off about taxes, yet they do not know why.
But our craven Dem ‘leadership’ will not step forward on this point, instead repeatedly trying to craft sound policies (good for them), but funded by an insane system, the insanity of which is never, never addressed directly.
And they they go into shock when these very same people say ‘no’ to footing the bill.
They should be waving the fucking bloody shirt.
@30 More bullshit from a WingNut (TM) who thinks she acquires and owns her wealth independently of the government that provides infrastructure that makes commerce possible, provides courts and law enforcement that make ownership of private property possible, educates the workers who may business possible, and provides the military forces who protect it all from foreign expropriation? The truth is, the more you own, the more government services it took for you to acquire it, and the more government services it takes to protect and preserve it.
@36 That’s not good enough. In exchange for an income tax, we should not only get rid of the state sales tax, but the B&O tax too. That was the alternative favored by the Gates Commission, and is revenue-neutral. It should be noted there would still be local and transit sales taxes. The state sales tax is 6.6%, so adopting the Gates Commission recommendation would leave us with (in the Seattle area) a 2.3% sales tax.
One of the effects of a high sales tax is that it encourages tax evasion. With an 8.9% sales tax, there’s a lot of incentive to make major household purchases in Oreon or Idaho, or to buy expensive items like electronics on the internet.
@38 A wealth tax isn’t redistribution, it’s simply a property tax. How is taxing the value of stocks and bonds different from taxing the value of a car, boat, or RV? It’s not. All a wealth tax would do is expand the taxable base of our existing personal property taxes.
Goldy,
You are too hard on yourself. The crushing victory of 67 was a huge win for progressives and even people like me.
Sherman did get his ass handed to him but he was actually much closer than he should have been based on the thinness of his resume, his ham-fisted campaign and the refusal of all the relevant prominant Democrats to endorse him.
The rest of the issue ballot was a different story and pretty much all cut against you.
Taxation isn’t redistribution unless you take wealth from one person and give it to another person. Taxing wealth to pay for government services and public projects is not redistributive in nature. It’s simply supporting government and public works with a personal property tax instead of some other type of tax, or instead of a tax on some other type of personal property.
Actually, Richard Pope made a very respectable showing, all things considered. I don’t regret my investment in the slightest.
If those folks want a lying drunk to represent their interests, what’s it to me?
@46 – I’ve no interests in winning converts. I’m not a tightass fundamentalist conservative who derives his life from boring countless people with his endless drivel.
And, I certainly would not want YOU claiming to be a liberal. How to explain THAT to people?
And, yes, the most important one for me was turning back the insurance industry’s attempt to continue ripping off the most vulnerable with impunity. I remember very well the local people that got hosed over burned houses when Safeco accused them of fraud, not because they were fraudulent, but because Safeco could make them prove their innocenceunder the existing law. Not exactly the principles our country was founded on.
Say,wasn’t there a guy named McGavick? What was HIS political persuasion? Piperian, wasn’t it?
Taken in the whole what I saw was a tax revolt. The only thing hated as much as that was insurance companies.
” … (B)ut I’m told the real fall off was with independents… who tend to vote with the Dems on many issues …” … except when they don’t.
And ‘told’ by whom? What exit poll was whispering to Goldstein while we were grinning from ear to ear and liberally drinking red-neck long neck beer? Must have been the same excellent exit pollsters who predicted three years ago that Very Hairy Kerry had Ohio in the bag.
And how did Goldstein, brilliant little bugger that he is, winnow the ‘independent’ demographic from a sample that doesn’t have a check box for Independent? Deucedly clever, David. (Referring here to our August primary, in which partisans had to denominate a party preference if they wanted their votes to count in partisan races. Beyond that, we’re all independent, or should be, unless we’re guests of Western State.)
And back to Swift Boat John: Harper’s mag ran a hysterical rant about Kerry being Diebolded out of Ohio. He’d carried the exit polls, and polls are never wrong, so THE swing state of 2004 must have been stolen from him. Some damn Kennedy and some damn Democrat congressman wrote the story, and apparently didn’t get Kerry’s memo that even Kerry knows he lost Ohio fair and square.
Pope Richard Pope seemed bemused at the suggestion (Rabbit’s?) that Mr. Pope give up ‘elective’ politics. Giving due consideration to Mr. Pope’s 1,429 desultory and failed attempts to be elected to anything, we can surely agree that ‘elective’ was the right word.
More sockpuppet Piper.
Piper really hates Richard Pope. He’s obsessed.
Quick, Richard, tell US the secret!
Roger Rabbit–
Aren’t you the guy who wasted his whole working career working as an attorney for the worst PUBLIC organization in the history of State Government anywhere???
Namely DSHS!!!!!!
You even admitted you could do nothing to improive things and hung on simply to collect your salary, benefits & pension.
This is where your wealth came from….THE PUBLIC TIT!!
Please tell us how you plan to “re-distribute” that wealth RR???
Somehow PUBLIC TIT bunghole’s like you seem to think you are above all reproach and questioning.
Don’t throw stones when you live in a glass Hutch!
@43 My Goldy
No the wealth has not been taxed. Even if it has, so what? If I work for you and you pay me money after taxes, does that mean I do not pay taxes?
In the real world, however, most wealth is never taxed. If I bought Google at the IPO, when have I paid taxes on the current value of my shares?
@42
Right on brother!
Once Roger Rabbit decides to re-join the workforce again, and become a productive member of society, he might find that the $150 per year ‘boondoggle’ sales tax bite is a drop in the bucket. Laziness is no excuse for opposing taxes, Roger. By embracing even MORE regressive tolls and gas taxes, you’ve proven regressivity isn’t an issue for you at all – just another smokescreen. Not to mention, neither of those revenue sources can be used for PUBLIC transportation (a progressive value, last time I checked). Once you stop contradicting your own arguments, some of us might take you a little bit more seriously…
And, unlike most of the government programs RR supports, tax dollars for infrastructure are re-invested in our own communities – to middle class union employees – and those projects benefit real people with real jobs to get to…so they can continue to be productive. Talk about a waste of money!
Roger doesn’t have a mobility problem, because he has nowhere to go. His opposition to Prop. 1 was typical: “since I don’t need any of this transportation stuff, nobody else does…”
Since when did progressives decide to embrace selfishness and self-centeredness?
Roger’s primary affliction is old age, envy and an inability to see anything beyond his own nose…
“although we pay more in property and sales tax than most, we have fewer dealings with the government than most to, especially since one of our largest taxes, for public schools, is something we don’t take advantage of. (However, I religiously support the public schools, and I contribute to the local schools foundation).”
Huh?@28: Roger Rabbit is blinded by envy and stunted by his own failures in life. Unless RR wins the lottery, or decides to get a job, his ideology will remain stagnant.
Ironically, as a wealthy person who doesn’t mind paying taxes which will bever benefit your family, you appear to be much more progressive than a self-centered CrackerJack box populist like Roger….
Goldy’s Comment “I’m just stumped”
Yep that is typical Goldy – totally stumped by the facts that don’t agree with his NeoProg Reality.
“Voters said said they’re tired of taxes, period!”
Piper@4: they are also tired of traffic congestion, and tired of the lack of viable mass transit alternatives to get them through that traffic.
Your Republican “free lunch” was a myth to begin with – so, at some point, those same voters will figure out “you get what you pay for” and “you pay dearly for believing everything you deserve comes for free.”
Prop. 1 opponents had no viable plan. The “congestion pricing” proposal the new unholy Sierra Club – Road Warrior alliance is moving forward with is the ultimate in social engineering – so, I’m sure rockheads like Piper Scott will be gung-ho in support.
These kooks are magnets for bad ideas.
Once again, Roger Rabbit shows that he is the wisest hare on this board.
Quit soiling your diapers, people. Tim Eyman’s newest adventure wouldn’t hold up in traffic court, much less a Superior Court. but that is the beauty of Timma. The real goal is always his self-promotion/ego feeding.He shoots himself in the foot every time he writes a law. He is like a combination of Barney Fife and The Roadrunner.
Sound Transit light rail is dead to the eastside. It will extend north where the ridership modeling will persuade the powers that be that it is necessary. It will not go further south due to certain Seattle City Council members….err Jan Drago….who insisted upon surface rail along MLK. That doomed any attempt at delivering a rapid transit light rail link to Tacoma.
And really, fuck the eastside. I hope they sit in their cars along Coal Creek Pkwy, and that shithole called Bellevue forever.
Remember Republicans, as you sit in your car, the market solves EVERYTHING. Because Ayn Rand says so. BAHAHAAA!!!
The Republicans on the eastside are so stupid, they couldn’t even see a huge subsidy they were going to get from Seattle. RTID was going to build them a new freeway and light rail, and Seattle was going to pay for more than half of it.
AND THEY VOTED IT DOWN!!!
Now that is the definition of dumbass.
I think the left deserves to feel bad about this election /
Sore loosers only make it so much sweeter .
Can you spell R-O-S-S-I.
That spells a green light to the BIAW to pave the foothills of the Cascades and beyond. And Salmon? Steelhead?
What are those?
@25 “Thanks for the pic link of your retirement home! Looks perfect for you!”
It’s great! I can piss on your shoes when you walk to work.
@25 (continued) So what’s wrong with my retirement home? It’s got everything — grass to eat, dirt to dig holes in, butterflies to shoot the prize with … AND NO FUCKING EAGLES, PEREGRINE FALCONS, OR REPUBLICANS!!!
shoot the breeze with
@63 The insurance companies can take comfort from knowing they’re more popular than Low Tax Looper, who as the only candidate on the ballot got 4% of the vote against a write-in candidate.
@71 I worked for 45 years — why should I work? But I see your point about gas taxes. I’m willing to compromise. How about a sales tax on gas?
RR–
Working for DSHS and having an Amway Distributorship is hardly “working” dumbass.
Voters in this state just passed I-960. And what are liberals going to do? Go to court and attempt to invalidate the will of the people.
This comes from the very same people that whine constantly that “Bush has taken our rights”, and that they have been “disenfranchised”.
What political party actually “takes our rights”? A bit of honest self examinization might be in order folks.
Roger ..
are we cloned?
There is another reason why wealth taxation makes sense. Society befits form capital investment but not fomr its accrual in non productive ways. So, If I invest in Petrochina, my capital may increase at the expense of the American economy.
“Actually, Richard Pope made a very respectable showing, all things considered.”
Hmmmm. All things considered. He had over $500,000 in free media directed against his opponent from the Seattle Times, Seattle PI and KIRO, KOMO and KING 5 that was uniformly negative. He was running as a democrat in a district carried by John Kerry and Darcy Burner…and he lost by 16 points.
Richard Pope did substantially worse than his last run for office because people finally paid attention to him and when they did they gagged him up like so much bile.
and dino rossi will be the next governor. face it. even the seattle idiots got it this time…does that tell you anything?
and like i said before…if any of you think hillary [or any democrat for that matter]will be president, i have some lovely swampland in death valley for sale.
sadly you libs drank your own kool-aid and believed your own PR for so long that you are actually surprised by these election results….sad.