The Seattle Times fires off another editorial ripping Democrats for caucusing:
Washington voters pride themselves on their independence. Many had trouble reconciling the fact that they had to sign an oath of allegiance to a party for their vote to count. The parties insisted on that.
Can you believe it? The Democrats insist that only Democrats* participate in their nominating process. What assholes!
You know, if independents and Republicans get to decide who gets the Democratic nomination for president, I should be allowed to weigh in on who the Seattle Times endorses. It’s only fair.
*or people willing to say, for one day, that they are a Democrat.
I think it is probably the “Freedom of Association” part that the Times does not understand. Some on the Right in the media think they can tell the Democratic Party who they can associate with.
Now could be worse, we could use the caucus system for office nominations. That is what they are doing in Minnesota for the DFL endorsement for the candidate that will challenge incumbant Norm Coleman in November for US Senate. Almost the same system they used on Super Tuesday for picking Presidential Delegates. It is just the first step. The DFL Endorsement will come at the state convention. (I have been following it a little.)
Now as for nominating processes, why not get rid of the primary altogether(for local, state, and Federal offices other than President), and go to Instant Runoff Voting. The parties can nominate as many or as few candidates as they want. It allows for protest votes, without necessarily throwing a vote away.
As for the Presidential Primary, I am a pollbook judge for King County Elections, and I worked the last Presidential Primary for this one. Something different this time. In 2000, we had a third line on the ballot, colored green, that was for Independents, but all candidates from the Red and Blue were on that list.
If Darryl can declare himself a Republican, the fishwrapper’s editorial wrappers could declare themselves Democrats — if they wanted to.
On the other hand, maybe they’re not political virgins, like Darryl was.
If Darryl ever becomes a Democrat again, he will have something in common with Roger Rabbit: An ex-Republican-turned-Democrat.
Unlike the lying trolls who pretend to be ex-Democrats, I really WAS a Republican once. I grew up in a lily-white suburb that voted 98% Republican, many of my teachers and all my school friends were Republicans, and I was bombarded with conservative messages and cultures. Hell, the head deacon of our family church was a Bircher! I barely knew what a Democrat was! But when I found out I became one overnight. I’d always sensed that Republicans were bastards; I simply didn’t realize there was any alternative to being a fake-Christian wingnut bastard, so naturally I thought I had to be one, too, until I hopped out of my little provincial park and discovered there’s a big wide world out there full of compassionate, caring, nativist rabbits.
The rest was easy.
Ever since my Republican Sunday School teacher made a pass at me, I’d felt there was something wrong with grown-up Republicans.
Maine allows absentee caucusing for any reason whatsoever. There is no reason why we couldn’t do the same. With preregistration, a lot of confusion could be avoided as well.
“…compassionate, caring, nativist rabbits.”
And all of ’em helping themselves to Stefan’s Republican carrots, right, Roger?
I first voted in California in 1972. In those days, California had a closed primary. You had to give a party preference when you registered to vote, or you couldn’t vote in that party’s primary. If you “declined to state” a party preference, no voting for you in partisan primary races. This seemed perfectly normal to me. Then, in 1974, I moved to Washington, with its open primary. This seemed weird, but I figured it might be a good thing if some states had open primaries and some states closed.
There was a woman I used to work with, and if I wanted to get her going, all I had to do was mention closed primaries. She would just go bonkers over the idea that you couldn’t vote for whomever you wanted on primary day.
I fear some in Washington may never warm to the idea of a closed primary. But, like I say, it makes prefect sense to me.
I liked Hillary’s concession debate tonight.
Busdrivermike: Was she sick and tired of giving sick and tired speeches and answers?
Busdrivermike: Remember this comment from Heilery:
“It’s not a very long run. It’ll be over by February 5th. — Hillary Clinton, ‘This Week,’ Dec. 30, 2007.”
Puddy don’t forget.
Now here is Heilary (Heilery same diff) on ABC GMA:
MEREDITH VIEIRA: So no matter what happens in Texas and Ohio, you will go on.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well Meredith, I don’t make predictions. I never have, I never will. I just get up every day (PuddyStudy – alone of course) and, you know, do the best I can to, you know, let people know what I have done and what I am doing and what I will do.
If the primary is a method for the parties to pick their nominations, and not an expression of the will of all the people….why on earth do all the people have to pay for the partisan’s to choose thier candidate? Shouldn’t the parties pay the millions of dollars for their primaries?
@ 14
Good point. The Democratic caucus was funded entirely by the party. We’d like nothing better than to save everyone the 10 mil that a primary costs, but Sam Reed wanted to spend it.
Stupes gets frightened when the “claws come out”.
Not “periodically” either.
Consistently. He’s a stickler for consistency.
Especially consistently LOSING.
@1…ERF…
Speak for yourself, pal; the right has no interest in being lectured on how to pick candidates by left-wing media like The Times or anyone else.
As far as I’m concerned, ditch the primaries altogether. Whatever issues or races that appear on a primary ballot can easily be shifted to the general election.
I have zero problem with having the parties foot the bill for primaries, though, if we continue to be stuck with them.
If you want to participate in selecting the nominees of a party, join the party; come on in, the politics are fine!
If you don’t like either of the two major parties, join one of the fringies – there are a ton of them, especially on the left. Not to your liking? Then gather like-mindeds around you and form your own.
Still claim to be independant? Well, that probably proves your anti-social tendencies more than anything else, but you do have the right not to associate with anyone just as Republicans and Democrats have the right not to have your association forced upon them.
Righties and lefties find common ground on this issue, so picking a fight with someone who agrees with you doesn’t make a lot of sense.
The Piper
I agree with everything Piper says @ 18, except for one point.
The Times is not left-wing, except to right-wing loons.
But that’s a side issue. People who don’t like the caucuses need to realize that the tradeoff for getting rid of them starts in one place, and only in that one place.
That place is partisan registration, like almost every other state in the Union has, and thinks nothing of it.
Nominating processes, as Piper says, belong to the parties. Tough shit if “independents” don’t like that.
The problem is the “independents” are paying for the parties nominating processes.
The second problem of course, is that somehow the parties have gotten it into thier head that their nominee deserves a spot on the ballot. Why should the two parties have a reserved spot on the ballot? Last I knew, the vote belongs to the people of washington, and not to the parties.
Do away with the open primary to select party nominees, for sure. Maybe we should have an open election to determine who will be on the ballot in November though….
The Times is not left-wing, except to right-wing loons.
Yes indeedy, that’s our Pooper Snot!
So bankrupt, so losing.
Democrats want their minions to sign an oath of allegiance but are against requiring voters to show ID. Guess they only want voter fraud when it can be used against republicans.
You gotta love it.
Hey Pooper,
More “jaywalking incidents”:
Anbar, Feb 22, (VOI) – Four people were killed and eight others wounded when a suicide bomber blew himself up amidst worshippers performing the Friday prayers at a mosque in southern Falluja, police said. “Among the killed was Maj. Saadon al-Ubaidi, an officer at the Amiriyat al-Falluja police station,” the source added.
U.S. soldiers were wounded when an improvised explosive device went off near their patrol in the district of Balad, Salah al-Din province, during the early hours of Friday, a police source said.
Deaths from Friday’s earlier car bomb explosion rose to two policemen and the injured to six, including two civilians, a security source in Tikrit said on Friday. “Police patrols found a civilian car in the Tikrit cemetery. The vehicle turned out to be rigged with explosives,” a source from the Tikrit coordination center told Aswat al-Iraq – Voices of Iraq – (VOI) on condition of anonymity.
Police forces on Friday found two bodies in al-Askandariya district, north of Hilla, a police source said.
The two bullets-riddled corpses show signs of torture. “The dead men are from the Sunni anti-Qaeda al-Janabiyeen tribe,” the source highlighted.
Three people, including a policeman, were wounded in a house bomb in western Mosul on Friday, the official spokesman for the Ninewa operations command said.
At least one man was killed and four others wounded when an improvised explosive device (IED) went off in the central Baghdad district of al-Karrada on Friday, police said.
A donkey and cart abandoned in a market place behind the National Theater, near Hamurabi Hotel, central Baghdad were used to carry an IED which was detonated early this morning, killing one civilian, injuring four, and causing a lot of material damage to the surrounding stores.
Hopefully we’ll have more information on some of these major developments by this evening.
Oh yeah: McCain tells Hoosiers Iraq surge succeeding: “Presidential hopeful John McCain, on a campaign stop in Indianapolis this morning, said the U.S. is succeeded in its war in Iraq, though there’s “long, hard work to do” in the war-torn country. The American military surge is working, McCain said, and our troops will be withdrawn when they can do so with honor and victory, not in defeat.”
http://warnewstoday.blogspot.com/
Believe in McCain Poopster. Things are just going swimmingly over there.
#19 ivan says:
The times is not left wing to those on the extreme-left.
but are against requiring voters to show ID.
I guess you’re for literacy tests and poll taxes too.
Who’s the “dixiecrat” now?
Not us D voters on this comment board.
@25…YippyLil’Boy…
If a literacy test was given, you would fail.
The Piper
If a literacy test was given,
It’s your dream pooper: draconian ID’s, “no match, no vote”, literacy tests, poll taxes (the only taxes Republicans support).
More and more hoops for citizens to jump through so right wingers can cling to power.
Hear about Rick Renzi, Pooper?
You guys are circling the drain – or the toilet bowl.
our troops will be withdrawn when they can do so with honor and victory, not in defeat.
Where did we hear that before?
Yep, Nixon on Vietnam. Sounds like an echo someone like McCain would let slip.
A war and occupation sold on lies can only harvest blood and shame.
@2 That’s how it will be if the coming SCOTUS descision is for TopTwo.
@23…YippyLil’Boy…
Nothing short of complete American defeat and a return to the pre-surge utter chaos will satisfy you, will it?
You don’t care what happens just as long as George Bush is hurt and the American effort is damaged; your emotional investment in American defeat in Iraq is evident.
Emotional investment? Charles Krauthammer, who, as an analyst, has you beat 66 ways to Sunday, sums it up nicely here: http://www.townhall.com/column.....om_victory
Of ocurse, you’ll reject him out of hand because his is a POV that slaps reality in your face, which is uncomfortable for you. Banging that defeatist drum with only your left hand is getting boring, and it’s isolating you from any number of simple realities — realities you may wish were otherwise, but realities nevertheless: the surge is succeeding, and now the Iraqi government is making its own progress toward national reconciliation and unity.
Of course, reality and the HA Happy HooliHallejuah in favor of American humiliation have always been mutually exclusive.
What exactly would you do if you woke up one morning to find your POV so completely discredited as to make you a total laughing stock? Continue unabated is my guess, since and again, you and reality haven’t even a nodding acquaintance.
Sadly, there are no meds for your condition.
The Piper
30 – It’s no use talking to someone who’ll support a delusional like Krauthammer.
But I hope he’s right! If things are going great then that means Bush can declare victory and bring the troops home!
The Iraqis can catch the mad bombers on their own.
Oh excuse me – the “jaywalkers”.
@18: I agree with Piper. If you want to pick the nominee of a party – then join the friggin’ party (even if it is only for a day!)!
Reality departs company with the axiom that those who oppose the illegal war and occupation of Iraq are causing the problems there simply by their opposition.
A detailed study of the PNAC writings of the last era might direct the malinformed of the true nature of this ill- concieved excercise in imperialistic, corp/gov hegemony. Relaying the Soviet style party-line agitprop is embarrassing, and exposes a lack of self respect and awareness.
@30: Krauthammer is an apologist – Where was he when bush said bin Laden wasn’t important? Where was he when we didn’t go after the Taliban and left it to our “allies”?
If Krauthammer was really concerned about our security he would be all over the resurgence of the Taliban and al Qaeda. No – he is a partisan hack.
If the surge has worked so well – then why can’t we withdraw from Iraq? Remember – the Iraqis need to step up so we can step down….we have been there for how many years now? Gee- it is not like insurgents don’t know how to hide out and keep low until we leave….and then how ready are the Iraqis after 6 years?
Is it victory if we are in Iraq for 20 years? When do we say enough is enough – handle your own country Iraq?
@32…CnR…
A day isn’t good enough…Support the party through time, talent, and treasure! Those who are there the other 364 (365 in a leap year like this one) should decide, not just those who drift in on the one day when it’s fun.
Right, left, or center, either America matters enough to make it a priority, or it doesn’t. Take a vacation day, re-arrange your schedule, get out of your sick bed (Delaware delegate to the Continental Congress, Caesar Rodney, suffered from advanced skin cancer and asthma, yet got out of a sick bed and travelled to Philadelphia to participate in deliberations on the Declaration of Independence)…do whatever it takes to make participation in the process a priority.
Those who care enough to get there and do it should decide, while those who don’t shouldn’t.
Nobody said it would or should be easy. In fact, I’m all for making it more difficult; the proof of your commitment is in the pudding of your effort.
The Piper
@33…Slingshot…
Would you mind translating that into English, please?
The Piper
So, what about the less sexy infringements upon “freedom of association” then?
In addition to controlling how the major parties in Washington State nominate candidates (through primaries), the state also dictates the election of PCOS, the organization of county and district level groups and how those groups operate.
If the parties really truly wanted or had freedom of association, there would be no state laws governing how parties operate (short of political donations), and state and local governments wouldn’t pay for their nominating contests.
“Freedom of Association”. Good words, and I even agree with them, however…
Caucuses have problems. First, while it is easy for many of us here to talk about how someone should be able to take off one day of work every couple of years, the reality is that sometimes that one day is the difference between being employed and being unemployed. Even where it isn’t, asking an hourly worker to give up several hours pay is unreasonable.
Additionally, considering how well-attended the Republican caucuses are, a request for time off from a worker to attenda a caucus is essentially a declaration of your political party. In some workplaces, that’s not a smart thing to do.
There are also some folks with other problems that prevent them from caucusing. We still want them to be able to participate to the greatest extent possible. We’re Democrats, and it is one of our principles to be welcoming and encouraging to anyone of good will that wants to participate in choosing our leaders.
We can improve the caucus system by expanding the options for proxy voting.
I’m also going to get back on my primary soapbox. I like caucuses, and think that we should use them to pick the candidate(s) that will be allowed to use the party name and logo, and will receive party support.
Then have open primaries to determine the top two vote-getters.
If, with the full support of the party, our candidate cannot manage to be one of the top two vote-getters, then it’s time to either give up on that position, or reconsider one of the winning candidates.
It would be our choice, as Democrats, which option we took, and I agree that no candidate should be allowed to use the party name and influence without our permission. Freedom of Association.
But… The voters, not the parties should decide who they want as their final choices, and the voters should have the option of telling the parties to take a hike. That too, is Freedom of Association.
Obviously, some additional consideration would have to be made in the case of Presidential elections. It’s not practical to eliminate major national candidates from the Washington ballot.
But that election is only once every four years. Something could be worked out for it, if we have the will to do so.
Just btw, if you think that the little ‘moment’ at the end of that debate was a concession speech, you have completely forgot about New Hampshire and the tears.
She does best and she motivates her core base when she shows emotion and is able to connect. That ‘warm fuzzy’ right there was a BRILLIANT move, whether it was planned or not, I can’t say for sure – but watch Hillary stock move UP because of it.
Sorry Backtrack, Hillary’s in it for the long haul.
What is it about these blogs that manages to bring out the worst in us?
Ok, I expect MTR and Puddy to come up with lame slams like “Hielery” and “Backtrack”, but why do we do it to ourselves?
We’ve got two really good candidates. No secret that I’m an Obama supporter, but if Senator Clinton ends up being the party’s nominee, I’ll be able to vote for her with a big happy smile, knowing that she’ll be an outstanding President.
For once in my adult life, when I hear both of our Presidential candidates say that they were friends before this elections and will remain friends afterwards, I actually believe them.
Yet, around here we have folks that publicly announce that if their preferred candidate isn’t the nominee, they will not campaign for the winner, or worse, that they will sit out the election. We have people that get so fixated on winning the nomination that we demonize the other Democratic candidate.
Our part of the nominating procedure is, for the most part, complete. We’ve had our say, and other states need to have theirs. We should continue to support our preferred candidate with money (campaigns are expensive), but beyond that, we should be focusing on beating Senator McCain in the general election, regardless of which of our two outstanding candidates goes on to oppose him.
Senator McCain is the candidate we need to beat. He has stated that he will continue the Bush legacy. We cannot allow that. Whichever of our candidates returns to the Senate after the nomination, we need to make sure that Senator McCain follows.
Well said, JB @ 48. I am an Oboma supporter, but will gladly and proudly vote for Clinton if she is the nominee.
But if you are referring to “DustinJames” @ 39, I do not for a second believe he is a Democrat. Almost all his posts in “support” of Clinton come off as an attempt to split a united Democratic party.
Ain’t gonna work.
“I simply didn’t realize there was any alternative to being a fake-Christian wingnut bastard …” The alternative was becoming a fake-sentient wingnut bastard lawyer. Glad you had your Marxist epiphany, cast off your Republican chains, and united with the unchained slacker bastards of the world.
@40: I’m pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of Democrats will get behind the eventual nominee. Sure there are some hard cases that will sit it out but I guarantee you I’ve heard plenty of people say they’ll back the Democratic nom against the Republican.
It’s all right to be enthusiastically in favor of your chosen candidate. Sometimes people’s passion gets the better of them and they say things they don’t really mean. I’m convinced they’ll calm down when they see the real alternative.
A 10:1 ratio of Democrats to Republicans right here in Washington tells me so.
Jesus Christ, what a bunch of whiny little titty babies.
Look, if you don’t like caucuses, or whatever, then get off your flabby ass, become active within your party, maybe become a Precinct Committee Officer (PCO) in your district, and try to move your party in the direction you want.
Or just sit around and whine. But keep it down, OK?
RR
I get what you say about changing affiliation, but for me, I knew when I was five years old and Kennedy was running for president that I was a Democrat. I know I don’t have a choice about this–I was born this way. I know a few times, back in college, I’d go out and have a few drinks, then wake up with a Republican next to me. But it was just the liquor, and everyone experiments in college.
40 + 41
The Dustin James post was the “calculating” meme again. It’s inteded to make the candidate seem not “authentic,” as though the piss-poor examples of “authenticity” that our media has bought into (Bush and McCain) aren’t palpable, provable fictions.
#25 YLB says:
What is so scary about showing ID… besides for cutting down the number of dead people voting for democrats.
@47
Might cut down on the number of counterfeit musicians, too.
Daddy Love: In college we all drank. But I woke up with a female babe next to me. Back then politics never mattered. Only the politics of partying after a full weekly schedule. Seeing how many brewskis one could down at The Embassy was all that mattered.
K – You should remember The Embassy!
@36
Piper,
Apparently you understood enough to realize it was directed at your neocon turd @30.
Before Clinton’s second term, there wasn’t much competition for the Democratic nomination (if any), so I actually switched my affiliation from unaffiliated to Republican to vote in their primary. I voted for Dole, because he was the one I could have best lived with beating Clinton…
#48 sempersimper says:
Exactly, like wanna be musicians disguising themselves as three chord playing guitarists. Hey, that would be you headless lucy.
The reason you keep changing your name is you hope people will forget you’re a racist? Tell us, why are blacks hard to be around 24/7?
as if “Marvin Stamn” weren’t a blatant attempt to add authenticity to your puerile blather. Your attempt to mimic a real person isn’t very successful, twerp. And I doubt you’d be able to tell a diminished 9th from your diminished functioning.
#53 Sempersimper says:
If I really wanted to pretend I was someone else, I would have spelled it like he spells it. Guess you never noticed or is spelling not one of your skills?
How’s your music career going? Oh yeah, you don’t have one. Do you know any triadic chords besides E, A & B?
“If I really wanted to pretend I was someone else, I would have spelled it like he spells it. Guess you never noticed or is spelling not one of your skills?”
If I were you, I’d sure as hell pretend to be someone else.
How
Will@15
Yeah, right, that silly Sam Reed has an amazing amount of power to personally decide what to spend millions of taxpayers dollars on. It certainly didn’t have anything to do with the fact that the primary is mandated by LAW.
God, people, could we just have a remedial civics class so nitwits MIGHT stop saying stupid shit like what WILL@15 said?
#55 sempersimper says:
Coming from someone that posts under a new name every other day that’s pretty funny.
I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, I’ve been posting here for three weeks and under one name. But your comments make as much sense as anything else you say.
“Can you believe it? The Democrats insist that only Democrats* participate in their nominating process. What assholes!”
Well considering that many Democrats vote in the Republican primary, your facetious comment rings true. Peter Jackson and Ken Schramm come to mind.