I stumbled across this article today:
Woodinville’s Tourist District Roundabout Transportation Improvement Project received an engineering excellence award from the Washington State Chapter of the American Council of Engineering Companies (ACEC). The award was presented to the Woodinville City Council on February 8.
The roundabout project won a gold award in the category of exceeding client/owner needs. […]
A number of other national professional engineering groups have also recognized Woodinville’s project for its innovative use of three roundabouts. […]
What drew my attention is that I use this bit of road at least several times a month. It reminded me that I been meaning to post a RANT about Washington drivers and their seeming inability to use roundabouts effectively.
Before I take up a menacing stance upon my mighty soapbox, let me first add to the praises of this project. For many years now, I have made almost weekly trips from my home in Redmond to Snohomish. I take SR 202 (or the Redmond–Woodinville road) to Woodinville and then pick up SR 9 to Snohomish. The intersection of SR 202 and Northeast 145th, was sometimes a mess. During rush hour, SR 202 used to back up for a mile or two. But even during low traffic periods, the intersection of roads at odd angles, combined with the particular traffic flows rendered an annoyingly low throughput at this intersection. According to this 2006 Seattle Times article, people have been trying to find a fix for this problem since the 1970s.
Roundabouts were the answer. Not those wimpy little traffic calming circles that one finds all over Seattle. These are real (if smallish) traffic roundabouts. About a year ago, they finished the project that consists of one main 2-lane roundabout. And there are two satellite roundabouts (see image) that, in part, serve to slow traffic down and permit a smaller main roundabout footprint.
My assessment: Fantastic! The one-way time between my house and my destination in Snohomish was reduced from 40 minutes to just under 35 minutes. Also the variance in trip time was reduced. Essentially, getting through the SR 202/NE 145th intersection is now both faster and accomplished in about the same amount of time each trip. I truly love these things.
What annoys me about roundabouts is the stupid-ass drivers who have no idea how to use them effectively. There are some simple tricks that, when everyone is in on it, makes them much more efficient. So, at the risk of being dubbed “The Traffic Nazi” by someone other than my significant other (Happy Valentines day, dear!), allow me to offer some advice to the traffic circle novice.
- In America, you travel counterclockwise around the roundabout. Yes…I’ve witnessed (more than once) the car in front of me approach the roundabout in total confusion and then hang a left. Sigh.
- Enter, traverse, and exit the traffic circle at a fairly constant speed. There is almost no excuse for stopping. Never stop in the circle unless not stopping would result in death (wayward pedestrian) or property damage (an idiot stopped in front of you). There is no need for slowing or accelerating through the circle. Just hang a constant 20 MPH (or whatever is appropriate for the circle size). If you find yourself changing speeds…you have probably fucked something up.
- There is never ANY reason to panic in a traffic circle. In the past year of near weekly use of this newly redesigned stretch of highway, I cannot tell you how many times drivers in front of me have slammed on their brakes in confusion, or have exited in front of me only to pull a semi-panicked U-turn in front of me on the main drag. Dude…don’t panic. If you’re confused, and going counterclockwise, just chill and continue to circle. (On the other hand, if you are confused and going clockwise…panic!!!) Seriously, you can drive around a roundabout all day, and nobody will notice (except for that other pitifully confused driver going around in circles…but who cares what that dumb-ass thinks!). If you miss your turn, take a lap or two and exit with a Zen calmness once you’ve figured it all out.
- When exiting the roundabout, USE YOUR GOD-DAMMED BLINKER…without fail. And USE YOUR DAMN BLINKER, TOO. Blinker good. Blinky-blinker-blink! By my estimates, only about one percent of drivers in Woodinville understand this small, but important, form of communication. In Europe, the compliance approaches 100% in my experience. Really…it helps everyone (especially the car waiting on you before entering the roundabout) if you signal your exit about midway between the previous exit and your desired exit. Not signaling means you have wasted other people’s time and fuel.
- When approaching the roundabout, time your entrance so that you don’t have to stop. There is no stop sign at the entrance. Except in heavy traffic conditions, a full stop probably means you have failed to plan properly, and everyone behind you suffers. Of course you must yield right of way to traffic in the roundabout. But, like freeway on-ramps, you should plan the maneuver from early-on for a smooth merge with existing traffic (and don’t get me started about idiots braking on freeway on-ramps!). By the way…if a vehicle in the roundabout has to adjust for your entrance…you’ve fucked up. It was your responsibility to enter without affecting the flow within the circle.
Whew! I’m glad I finally got that off of my chest.
That is a roundabout way of getting your point across …
The clock on here is really slow — it is already 12:36 a.m., and you are running half an hour behind the times. Where is Goldy to fix things when you need him?
I don’t like those things, mostly because of other drivers.
@ 3
They work pretty well. they keep traffic flowing. The main issue I have is there seems to be about 10% of drivers who don’t seem to understand that, just because the posted speed limit is 35 or so on the approaching road that doesn’t apply to the circle.
SLOW DOWN you FUCKING morons. Every day I go through a rather large two lane one up here. And every time I do, there is at least one driver who just HAS to maintain the posted speed going in.
“Washington drivers”? Most of the Eastside is populated by transplants, hence the abnormal concentration of megachurches. It’s likely that actual Cascadians would do as well on the roundabouts as we do with snow, but I doubt that most of the confusion you encounter is native.
Where I used to live in Mass, just outside Boston, there was a Rotary of Doom (they call these things ‘rotaries’ there)
Route 2 is a major east-west highway across the state, and when going eastward it would very rapidly narrow from three lanes at 65mph to 2 lanes to 1 in a couple of miles, and then deposit you on this gigantic banked rotary. Whew – good times!
They eventually got rid of it and replaced it with a big, lighted intersection just as I was moving away – don’t know if it worked better, but I’m sure reduced the drama.
Roundabouts need near-perfect signage to alert motorists to what’s ahead and which exit they should take to get where they want to go.
I recall going around two or three times in one, in a city new to me, trying to figure out the right exit. And that’s even more challenging in multi-lane roundabouts.
Roundabouts are still relatively new to our region, and I’m sure it will take a while for motorists, and the various DOTs, to figure them out.
I imagine that in multiple pubs in Britain, there are clusters of of people reading their papers, who are choking on their pints and guffawing that somehow us colonials have just discovered the roundabout, and are so impressed with ourselves that we give ourselves an “engineering excellence” award.
“USE YOUR GOD-DAMMED BLINKER”
That one’s not just a roundabout issue. After more than 20 years living here, I probably shouldn’t be surprised by this, but the misuse of turn indicators around here is truly astounding.
People seem to not understand that turn indicators are used to tell other drivers what you intend to do. We can all see what you are doing.
@9 Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Of all my various driving pet peeves, this ranks near the top: someone stopping dead in the road, inching out into oncoming traffic, then the signal comes on just as they turn left. Whereas I would have had time to go around them to the right if only they’d put their !@%%# turn signal on before they decelerated and stopped.
Roundabouts are excellent tools for keeping traffic flowing (if people have a clue about how to drive – and amazingly too many people shouldn’t be in a car judging from my experience).
I recall one trip to France I was able to drive the equivalent of Redmond to Seattle, off highway without once hitting a traffic signal all due to the omnipresence of roundabouts, surely a couple/three dozen, many much larger than these puny American ones in Woodinville.
And maybe that’s the problem here: they’re too small?
When you add tasteful landscaping (a lot of French roundabouts have floral displays and waterfalls) they make the roads a more pleasant place to drive through as well.
It usually seems like the only reason that most turn signals ever get switched on is that the person’s sleeve got caught in it while they were turning.
But can we really expect people who don’t seem capable of a very basic, simple merge (i.e. eastbound N85th Street crossing I5 during the morning commute, or pretty much any freeway onramp at any time of the day or night) to make sense of a traffic circle/roundabout, which is essentially a WHOLE SERIES of merges. Oh, no!!! I can see a car coming… slam on the brakes and wait until there’s no traffic to be seen for at least two blocks.
GPS sometimes screws with roundabout drivers. There can be enough of a lag between real position & gps-indicated position to confuse. Adequate signage is essential. Going round again is just fine.
North of Gig Harbor there is a series of four traffic circles that the locals have learned how to use fairly well. I have the experience of driving the route “BTC” and in the current configuration for the last twenty years, and the circles definitely speed things up and save gas. I do see the deer-in-the-headlights look on the faces of the uninitiated, but the irresistible siren’s call of Costco pulls them in, overcoming their fears.
I think those annoying little traffic circles (?) in the older Seattle neighborhoods are pointless and must die.
thanks, but your rants will be more effective if a bit shorter; also they’re a bit over adjectivialized. just sayin’.
1. yes it’s a local problem blaming transplants is pure denial.
2. PNW’s tell me the HOW lane is for families who want to go slower than the adjacent lane to the right. What complete idiocy. We have people in the HOV lane going 55 while the lane to the right people are going 60 or 65 or 70. Folks, if cars are passing you on the right move right and stop breaking the law? left is for passing only that means if there is no car to your right…move right.
3. locals can’t even handle the fact that there are many roads that are two lanes wide …they tend to bunch up in a line in one lane. 5th NE at Banner way part of the 80th I 5th mess a good example. Banner way is two lanes; if you use both lanes we move 2x the volume of cars thru in given period of time! if you use just one lane and stare at the guy zipping into the empty right hand lane is if it’s a big social transgression to seek to get thru faster…as if it’s lane cutting…you’re just clogging up the works, ok?
3. the merge by stopping phenomenon is incredible. Learn some fluid dynamics. You merge easier if you maintain speed. Don’t stop on 80th crossing the freeway to merge left to go north on the freeway. don’t stop entering 80th from the freeway to merge right to go on banner way. stop stopping while merging!
4. being ultra polite at stop signs and in any right of way situation only clogs up the works. when you have the right of way USE it and move your car along, the two or four seconds it takes everyone else to perceive you want to wave others through just clogs up the works.
5. clueless pedestrians: sometimes just let the car thru if it’s quicker and stop walking at 1.0 miles per hour across the intersection if you’re not disabled ok?
6. failure to signal, as above.
7. failure to know the rules of the right of way eg at an uncontrolled 4 or 5 way intersection: basically you take turns entering moving to the right. the guy on your left has right of way over you. 90% are unaware of this.
8. traffic rotaries as above.
9. and the bete noire…why does traffic stop on I 5 southbound approaching the ship canal bridge? because the elevation gain is a tiny bit steep people tend to slow down by 10 mph and that’s enough to create a bunch of stopped cars for no reason at all. keep your speed up.
10 inherent factors like the left exits and left entries and confusing signs (Seattle Center does not refer to downtown, out of staters — who would know? And the I 5 signs lie to you telling you this is for I 90 only when it isn’t!) and the confusing layout of the freeway (you have to exit for downtown miles before downtown without proper signage) and the fact that I 5 narrows to one freaking lane northbound!
10. the lack of an overall grid means we use the freeways as avenues just to go 2 to 4 miles.
@15 On your point #9, the I-5 Ship Canal backup southbound isn’t just due to elevation gain. It’s also people getting on at 50th and 45th and then having to cut across three lanes to exit left on 520; plus, on a decent day, people literally slowing down to take in the nice view of Lake Union. sigh…
Excellent post! I wholeheartedly agree!
Oh c’mon Darryl, get real! This is SEATTLE, man! NOBODY signals here!! To do so is capitulation, an admission of weakness, a wimpout. If you signal, the guy behind you knows what you’re going to do, and then cuts you off and passes you!!! To keep these aggressive drivers under control it’s necessary to suddenly swerve in front of them without warning and then lurch to one side or the other so that if they attempt to pass a collision will be a sure thing and it will be THEIR fault because they were overtaking from behind and THEIR insurance will buy you a shiny new car and put your kids through college. It’s the Seattle Way.
Did you all see that news article yesterday where a Bicycle Nazi went bonkers and smashed his bicycle into a car and assaulted the driver just for honking at him because he was weaving between the bicycle lane and car lane? We need to get these dangerous psychos off the roads for the protection of our families.
In other news, Italian authorities have indicted Amanda Knox’s parents for complaining about police abuse of their daughter; and journalists have confirmed that Ivory Coast dictator Laurent Gbagdo’s death squads have been murdering people who voted for his opponent in the December election everyone except his regime says he lost.
Americans keep forgetting that free speech gets you in trouble when you go to other countries.
#3 reminds me of Clark Griswald driving his family in London. “Hey kids, Parliament, Big Ben!!”
Now if they can just add more yellow blinking left turn signals at intersections…
And, of course, free speech gets you in trouble in America, too, as an Everett high school student found out when he urged his fellow students to boycott student elections for the puppet student council. Regimes just don’t like being criticized, whether they’re in Italy, Ivory Coast, Pyongyang, Tehran, or the administrative offices of the Everett School District.
And, of course, the Mubarak family didn’t like being criticized either, especially for stealing billions of dollars from their starving subjects who lived on $2 a day.
@13 So you’re saying people around here drive on instruments? Never VFR, even in CAVU conditions? They never take their eyes off the GPS to look outside? I suspected as much. This accounts for a lot of driving behavior that is otherwise inexplicable.
@24
Yeah, I had an idiot in a high end BMW tailgate really close to me in the slow lane, while looking down at his dash until he got off at the next exit.
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Back on topic –
Port Townsend just added roundabouts on hwy 20 entering town, and Sequim added a couple on the west side when the big box stores went in.
WSDOT seems to like them.
Lots of them springing up down here in Olympia as well. I don’t really know how well they work, as I am sadly one of life’s pedestrians. (See all above comments about idiot drivers? I’m even worse than that, and accept it..)
About 5 years ago they proposed putting a couple of these down the street next to a local retirement community. There was a meeting at the clubhouse for all the local residents. I went to the meeting since I had lived in Europe and generally favored roundabouts over traffic lights.
You would have thought by the ruckus at the meeting that they were planing a depleted uranium disposal facility.
It was like an early version of a Teabagger meeting. Mostly batshit crazy people screaming of the potential future death and destruction on this little used street.
The new roundabouts went in and they work great. I would be all in favor of replacing every traffic light intersection in my neighborhood with a roundabout.
Fuck You, Rabbit. Were you there? did you see what happened? No. Doesn’t the fact that the cyclist showed up at the police station to report a road rage incident indicate that there may be more to the story?
I’ve said it before: you’re right about most things, but the size of the stick you have up your butt about bicyclists is staggering. Get over it!
One of the WDOT ideas of late has been replacing freeway overpass bridges, which typically have lights on both ends of the bridge, with an “X” configuration which has a single light in the middle. You can see this in Everett where 41st Street crosses I-5.
41st Street Bridge over I-5
It’s a bit confusing at first, because the freeway entrance isn’t quite where you expect it to be. But it’s actually quite a good idea, it prevents the type of gridlock you seen at the bridge in South Everett at 128th S.W. over I-5, where traffic coming off the freeway stops for the light at the top of the exit, turns left, stops at the light at the other end of the bridge, then proceeds to the next stoplight. During the evening commute it takes at least fifteen minutes to exit from the freeway, turn left, and get over the bridge.
Drool’s supplemental rules for roundabouts:
1: Curb hopping (like in F1) at the apex is legal if the curbing design will allow it without car damage.
2: Wankers WILL get overtaken in the roundabout….thus the reason for rule 1.
3: How to use your blinkers. Left signal means you will not be going right or straight in the roundabout. Right means right. Use the right signal within the roundabout to signal your intent to depart. Stay in the correct lane withing the roundabout UNLESS you are invoking rule 2.
If you are being overtaken by something quick and yellow it is me and likely because of rule 2. Get the fuck out of my way because you are a wanker.
As someone who has three four-way stops on his 2-mile commute every day coming home from the park and ride, I would LOVE to see these in my neighborhood. So many morons DO NOT know how to use 4-way stops, and all they do is clog traffic.
@30
We have a couple of roundabouts by my house and I love, love, love, it when some guy in a monster truck thinks his going to be cute and pass me while I’m riding my bicycle though them. I guess these boobs aren’t acquainted with the rules that govern weight and torque. Being several thousands of pounds lighter and geared a hell of a lot lower then them, I leave them in the dust. Poor rednecks, outdone by a weenie on a bike!
Hilarious! I love these points. Drivers in the PNW are passive aggressive little weenies. I like the ones who speed up to get into the roundabout so traffic can’t enter. That of course, gets other timid drivers in the habit of stopping before entering the roundabout.
Folks are often confused (although I notice it less now)about when they must exit the roundabout, and when they can continue through. This is the most problem with 2 lane roundabouts.
Blinkers are helpful. I’m sure that’s why people refuse to use them. Letting someone know your intentions seems to allow the other guy to get one up on you. Can’t have that.(sarcasm font)
Most roundabouts, having been installed after the fact, are too small. If entering traffic can see cars entering to the left of them, they will tend to stop before entering the circle.
And yes, PNW drivers suck. They have always sucked. They are the worst drivers in the nation.
It’s worth noting that, contrary to public opinion, roundabouts have been proven to be much, much safer than any other kind of intersection, particularly signalized intersections. The primary reason for this is that there are fewer collision vectors. Also, collision speeds are generally lower, which drastically reduces the chances for fatalities.