Some big changes are coming to HA over the next few weeks, and in preparation I’ve decided to introduce the first change now: the daily open thread.
This is the place where all totally off-topic comments should go. I don’t mind if comment threads organically drift onto tangents, but if you have something entirely unrelated to say, post your comment here.
For now I’m merely asking you to politely follow these guidelines, but in a couple weeks we will be switching to software where these rules can and will be strictly enforced… not by me, but by your fellow members of the HA community.
A daily open thread is not a bad thing, but I will miss some of the chaos on this board. Still, a little focus won’t hurt. Let’s see how it works.
i bought a rechargeable electric toothbrush. it’s not one of the sonic ones, though. I hate those.
and , by the way, republicans suck!!
Plus now we will have a one stop location to read the wingnuts’ talking points, Wrongboy’s (aka pud-bud)re-typing of the latest Freep conspiracy theory, and Just another Chicken Hawks latest (take your pick) racist, homophobic, bigoted, illogical, all of the above, postings. Admittedly, if I was really interested in any of this, I could just watch FOX, read Free Republic, or visit a Klan site, but here I get it all in one place. Yeah!
Of course, I guess that I could just go talk to the local derange homeless man, since he might be a bit more coherent, but this will do for now.
Been away reading up on our Founding Fathers to determine whether or not our country was truly founded on Christianity, as the hyperbole right likes to claim.
Found an interesting nugget of information: The Treaty of Tripoli passed by the US Senate, unanimously, in 1797.
Article XI: reads, in part, “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers – two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
Do your homework, wing-nuts.
I beleive everyone ought to make the same amount of money regardless of what s/he does. We should divide the wealth of this country (and the world) equally and on a continuing basis.
In this country, it’s not enough to have income taxes to help re-distribute wealth. We should have a new law where people have to send in a percentage of the value of their belongings each year. Then the govenrment can send the people wiht less wealth the excess that’s taxed away from the wealthy. Only by reconciling wealth each year can we have a truly just society.
This is a great move. At times it is hard to have dialog or debate on an issue when a few jump in and hijack the thread for another topic all together.
This is just as much of an impediment to those seeking to see what has been said.
Goldy — We look forward to the changes. When you use Yahoo message boards, there’s a feature called “ignore this user”, which allows you to suppress future postings. Can you add something like that? (I know the trolls change their posting names, but it would at least give some temporary satisfaction to tune out the worst ones…)
I like this idea, too. I’m a huge offender of going off topic to slap my Blog Bitches around. Instead of the “Daily open thread” can we call is something like the “Mosh Pit” or “Exposing right wing liars like JCH” or “DA WO the ultimate officer Brown-noser”?
This is a whole lot of work trying to herd the 10-15 individuals who post 95%+ of the comments Goldy. I understand there are a few folks who like to read your threads and some of the comments. But let’s be realistic here for a moment. There are very few regulars. This could turn into yet another “preaching to the choir” LEFTIST PINHEADED blog. HA would lose it’s “ambiance”…so to speak. Then you end up with merely a gaggle of KLOWNS that aren’t funny and have no audience.
You are kind of falling into the same trap your hoard of KLOWNS in Olympia have contrived….it’s called the Civility Trap. House Clerk, KOMRADE Rich Nafziger has ruled that Gary Alexander R-Olympia is uncivil because he wrote that “Democrats were displaying a lack of honesty with taxpayers”. OMYGOD Komrade Nafziger….how horrifying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KOMRADE Nafziger is also upset that R’s call D’s “tax-and-spend liberals” or even “disingenuous”!!! Horrifying, isn’t it??
I thought you LEFTIST PINHEADS were the standard bearers for unbridled free-speech and against over-reaching government!!!!!
What a bunch of fucked up KLOWNS!
Does DA WO post by telegraph? What’s with the all caps and lack of punctuation? I can tell you it really makes me respect the message.
While we’re randomizing, Now that our county council has voted to accelerate the adoption of a Martin Luther King logo – despite the fact that the late Reverend Doctor had nothing to do with this State other than passing through on his way back from Tokyo – can someone tell me how to file an initiative – I’d like to rename the State. George Washington, after all, was a slave owner.
I propose we name the State after either Denzel Washington, the actor, and if that smacks of inappropriate political correctness, then how about Washington Irving, of Legend of Sleepy Hollow fame? That way, if the (Super) Sonics move away from the Jet City to some generic suburb, they can become the Washington Knickerbockers.
That could cause a bit of confusion – maybe.
Goldy, good idea for the daily open thread. With the ‘short circuiting’ of the GOP and all of the scandals coming to light we need somewhere to keep up to date. On the other items, I will have to see how they work. Someone like JCH should be judged insane by all posters and deported to Iraq, other trolls like Mr Cynnical, puddybud, klake, Janet S, etc, have decent opinions once or twice per year!
Mr. Cynical @ 9, my man. Speaking of preaching to the choir, remember how we poor Leftest Pinheads repeat the mantra Tax Cuts for the rich, screw everyone else. Remember how you Right Wing Dingers scream class warfare. Well my friend, the war has started:
Bush budget would sock Northwest ratepayers
…The administration’s budget writers, looking for every scrap of revenue they can find to offset deficit spending, want to extract $1 billion from the Northwest economy.
The president’s proposed budget would require the Bonneville Power Administration to give any surplus power revenues above $500 million to the federal treasury, instead of using it to maintain low regional power rates.
According to the Northwest Power and Conservation Council, the move would force BPA in 2008 to raise wholesale power rates about 7 percent. In that one year alone, higher monthly power bills would reduce the region’s personal income by $109 million and cost 1,120 jobs, according to a council study.
Bend and recieve baby, as we use to say in the Army. Your Prsident has decided to reward your support by raising your powerbill. And it does not matter if you are red or blue.
Commander Ogg – People in the Northwest should not get a break on power bills. They should pay what everyone else pays.
Read the article Mr. Max. Specifically the following:
This is a new and more alarming chapter in an old story. For years Eastern critics have targeted the BPA, claiming U.S. taxpayers are subsidizing low power rates in the Northwest. They argued that the BPA paid unduly low interest rates on the federal loans that paid for the federal hydroelectric dams on the Columbia and Snake rivers.
Although that argument doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, the BPA agreed several years ago to start paying market-rate interest on the federal loans. The agency hasn’t missed a payment in 20 years and is actually ahead of schedule.
So now all of a sudden the Republican argument against taxing productive individuals and groups is thrown out the window. The BPA played by the rules, and this administration wants to punish it for sucess. CRAP!
Excuse me, a typo. I meant Mr. Marx.
Stefan’s out doing his Toby Nixon love fest again…
Could there be a relationship between the two? One hopes so…for it would be sad for Stefan to do so much work for Nixon without getting benefit!
Conservatives: On the wrong side of history and the wrong side of honesty.
I wonder what Reichert’s position is on us getting screwed on our power bills?
Yeah, make those tax cuts permanent. What a dildo.
Why don’t just simplify the dang tax code? It’s too complex and takes up a lot of time to comply with it. Let’s go to a flat rate tax.
Do your homework, wing-nuts.
Commentby GBS— 3/7/06@ 9:15 am
GBS two hundred years from now some crazy nut will be read the trash from this era and draw the wrong conclusion about you.
Bend and recieve baby, as we use to say in the Army. Your Prsident has decided to reward your support by raising your powerbill. And it does not matter if you are red or blue.
Commentby Commander Ogg— 3/7/06@ 10:40 am
Commander Ogg you get what you sow and if the Northwest act like a bunch of idiots don’t complain. You slam the President daily bases and you think he should treat you all with respect. Excuse me what reward do you expect when the state is run by a bunch of nut cases. The two Seattle fish wrappers cannot report anything that is objective and not enter their own bigot options. Now you will under stand why Blogs are kicking their butts. At least here you can post another point of view and learn from the uneducated students of Seattle. Hells don’t charge the customers the high power bills and the Fed’s will get little or nothing. You should know the Government is greedy no matter who is in power.
…the Government is greedy no matter who is in power.”
Commentby klake— 3/7/06@ 11:44 am
NO KIDDING! You got THAT right!
Goldy you can put the filters in for the subject matter, but it could be a bust for your blog. I don’t post that much on you friend’s blog due to the lock in subject matter. If Roger and Gang are not in the mood to talk about the subject you post they will not visit as much and may drop off completely. The mix option on this blog brings a different class of readers and the willingness to post daily by even the mentally ill.
cool. Will it limit Roger to fewer than 50 posts in a row?
Roger and Gang please read and comment.
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century
http://www.memritv.org/Search......38;P1=1050
A Different point of View on the war that we are fighting.
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
What a bunch of fucked up KLOWNS!
May you live in interesting times, BOZO!
Deal with it. Imagine, a site where ad-hominem is effectively eliminated – where you point out the shortcomings of the argument, not the arguer, and where Kevin Carnes and other BIAW shills actually have to support and defend their warped views.
I’ll miss the free for all for about a day. It’ll be an adjustment but after all is said and done I’m sure we’ll all wonder why it wasn’t done sooner.
You KLOWNS kind of falling into the same trap your hoard of LENIN’S USEFUL IDIOTS in Olympia have contrived….it’s called the Civility Trap. House Clerk, KOMRADE Rich Nafziger has ruled that Gary Alexander R-Olympia is uncivil because he wrote that “Democrats were displaying a lack of honesty with taxpayers”. OMYGOD Komrade Nafziger….how horrifying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KOMRADE Nafziger is also upset that R’s call D’s “tax-and-spend liberals” or even “disingenuous”!!! Horrifying, isn’t it??
I thought you LEFTIST PINHEADS were the standard bearers for unbridled free-speech and against over-reaching government!!!!! Clueless loves “free speech” as long as it agrees with his warped view of the world.
What a bunch of fucked up KLOWNS!
BIAW’s dick is concerned that he will actually need to add cogent content to his posts.
Tough for him to do.
Libertarian @ 22,
Again, bullsh-t. Or was the Clinton era deficit reduction a myth? Was the surplus he created by the use of wise economic policies fiction?
It took bad Bill 8 years to clean up the mess created by Reaganomics. It took President Bush less then 5 years to screw it all up again.
Tax money should only be used for Defense, government services (fire, police, highways, etc) and to help those who are unfortunate enough to need assistance through no fault of there own (Katrina, people with disabilities). It should not be used to fill the Bank Accounts of those businesses that can not compete on their own without fat Government Contracts.
The philosophy of those Republicans that are now in power (they are not all a like, e.g. McCain and Chafee) is that the tax revenue the Government takes in is simply a source of income for the Corporate Donors that contribute to their campaigns. Halliburton/KBG, Dubai Ports World, and other major Corporations milk the public for billions, with shoddy services and inflated prices.
When those in charge know what the hell they are doing, Government can be a force for good, benefiting the maximum amount of citizens and providing good service for your tax dollar. Under the Tax Cut and Spend policy of those thieves that occupy Congress and the oval office, Government is a Bridge to no where.
BOZO,
Participate all you want – just leave your name-calling out of it. Go to (un)SP for that.
Nafziger is also upset that R’s call D’s “tax-and-spend liberals”
BOZO – how about we even it up and call you guys “borrow and squander wingnuts”? Deal?
“…Tax money should only be used for Defense, government services (fire, police, highways, etc) and to help those who are unfortunate enough to need assistance through no fault of there own (Katrina, people with disabilities).”
Commentby Commander Ogg— 3/7/06@ 12:26 pm
The problem with government is that it will always seek to maintain or increase ANY source of revenue. One part of the government tries to destroy the tobacco companies, yet another part enjoys the revenues of tobacco.
Don’t east at McDonalds but the sales tax we get is nice.
Participate in our Ponzi scheme called social security. You’ll get no tax deduction for it, and, if you’re lucky to get anything out of it, we’ll tax that as income. By the way, we don’t want you to have control over your retirement. Trust us so we can borrow your retirement funds to fudn our pork projects.
The National Education Association and the Washington Education Association shold changes their names to the National EducaTORS Assocaiation and the Washington EducaTORS Association, respectively. Both have more to do with the financial well-being of educators than with the educational process.
Let’s get rid of farm subsidies. Why can’t farmers make it on their own without hand-outs for government?
Let’s stop giving Israel and Egypt $5 billion a year to “be good.” In fact, let’s get out of being such a good buddy to Israel. After all, we caught them spying on us on several occasions. Plus, they’re big boys and girls now and can take care of themselves. As for Egypt, let them fend for themselves.
Yeah, commander, I guess the government is just peachy-keeno.
Since we’ve an open thread, I have a question for those social conservative out there.
Please correct me if I am misconstruing your position, but you feel that abortions should be illegal, and that birth control should be tightly restricted.
Now give that with five years of testing its become clear that abstinence only programs increase both births to teen mothers and STD transmission, what do you propose to do to lower these if you get your way on abortions and birth control?
sorry, here is a a study from Texas showing the effect of the programs.
Bill- I think we need MORE abortions, not less. Abortions ought to be mandatory for un-wed teens, women on public assistance, and for others who don’t have the financial ability to raise and support a kid.
Commentby Karl Marx— 3/7/06@ 10:42 am
“Commander Ogg – People in the Northwest should not get a break on power bills. They should pay what everyone else pays.”
Sounds more like Ayn Rand than Karl Marx. I’d figured you be for subsidies. Isn’t wealth redistribution a kind of subsidy?
Commentby bill— 3/7/06@ 1:16 pm
“Now give that with five years of testing its become clear that abstinence only programs increase both births to teen mothers and STD transmission, what do you propose to do to lower these if you get your way on abortions and birth control?”
But the study you posted doesn’t show that abstinence-only programs do increase births to teen mothers and STD transmission. All it really showed was that sexual activity was up in 10th grade boys after having the program, which could be purely coincidental, since they, after all, 10th grade boys.
From your link:
“One problem with the study was that it lacked a comparison group — a group of students similar to the group studied but who did not receive abstinence education, according to Pruitt. Without a comparison group, the researchers cannot say whether or not the students would have engaged in more sexual activity if they had not received abstinence education, according to the Morning News.”
I’m pretty sure that the abstinence-only programs are better than the sexual education I received in public school from an untrained PE teacher, who used the class as an excuse to humilate 8th grade boys. Why should the schools be teaching sex education at all? Why are parents so willing to abdicate this extremely important responsibility to the public school system?
Now give that with five years of testing its become clear that abstinence only programs increase both births to teen mothers and STD transmission, what do you propose to do to lower these if you get your way on abortions and birth control?
Comment by bill— 3/7/06@ 1:16 pm
Start A Good War, start up the draft and then draft only from the Blue areas. Hell abortion is the fastest way to flush the gene pool. Oh I forgot women should resister for the draft now that they can vote.
GBS two hundred years from now some crazy nut will be read the trash from this era and draw the wrong conclusion about you.
Commentby klake— 3/7/06@ 11:29 am
Thanks, Klake. That means I’m right if they are drawing the wrong conclusions about me. But, I’m not wrong about this country NOT being founded on Christianity. You’d have to be a moron, a liar or a moronic liar (ie Christian Conservative) to read the and come to any other conclusion.
Don’t you agree?
correction at 39 it should read:
read the Treaty of Tripoli and come to any other conclusion
Don’t know if this has been posted yet, but KPTK has the audio of the Sims- Hutch debate on their homepage
http://www.am1090seattle.com/
Goldy I can’t wait for your new system. If the users get a say over the threads than several of the trolls will have to revert back to their republican child raping ways and hang out elsewhere because they’ll certainly get pushed aside here.
Did anyone notice that the Pretend President’s own Texas Governor is calling Bush a looooooser on the way he handled Katrina? I suppose it’s the “liberal media” who’s at fault because this REPUBLICAN Governor told the truth about Baby Bush? No, wait a minute, it’s probably Senator Clinton’s fault that Governor Perry got a moment of honesty right?
Oh please, I posted that study because it was the one I could find quickest. Tenth grade boys are tenth grade boys, if their sexual activity is up among teens taking abstinence only courses, then increases in STD and pregnancy rates will follow.
I wasn’t asking about justification of sex ed, my question is, if you manage to get abortion made illegal and get restrictions on birth control (possibly to married women only) then what are you going to do about the increase in teen pregnency (and STD’s) that is going to follow.
Bill at 34:
What a liar you are.
I am a social conservative. I am pro choice. I’m not opposed to birth control. Don’t tell me what my values are.
If one abstains from sex, one will not get pregnant. One might even avoid catching an STD. Even a dumb Republican like me can work out the logic of that.
As for “abstinence programs”, they will have the same rate of success as all the other government funded “programs” administered by our public school system — which is run by you guys (yes, in Texas too). The article you quote proves nothing, so why do you bother? Moreover, why do you use this bullshit Dallas Morning News article to support some spurious point about me up here in Washington State?
Lastly, your screeching about abortion is moot. Do a google search on the “Roe Effect” to see why. You are aborting yourselves into extinction.
Here’s an interesting little exercise we can all participate in. Let’s do a little poll, all 25 of us. Righties and lefties – how many legitimate children do you have? I would bet that we(the ones you call wingnuts) will average a healthy replacement rate in excess of 2.1 children apiece. You lefties will fall way short.
Tell the truth now. I’ll start the ball rolling. I have three. That’s three for the wingnuts. Who’s next? Roger Rabbit, will you live up to your name? Goldy?
I expect a screech from someone attempting to claim that they are morally superior or more intelligent by virtue of not reproducing. I, and all the Mormons, traditional Catholics, Muslims, and the entire developing world laugh at you. We will still be laughing when you are gone.
Liar? Screeching? That is a bit of a strong response. In case you didn’t notice, this is a issue that is facing the whole country, last I checked we are not doing a whole lot of abstenence programs here in washington state. I handed you a link I had on hand, here is another. I am trying to figure out, if you are pro-choice and don’t object to birth control distribution that your response would be anything other than a ‘yes you misconstrued my position’.
You will note though I never claimed a position, I am asking amongst those who do are opposed to abortion and to birth control distribution to those who are not married, what you intend to do about the teen birth rate. It is becomming more and more clear that telling teens to just not have sex isn’t going to work, so what is the fallback plan?
Further concern over teen pregnancy rates and STD rates really has nothing to do with population growth. Have you never notice that the children of children ARE the ones who we keep paying welfare too? You know those who are born on welfare and never actually get off? Wouldn’t it make sense to, I dont know, maybe try to do something about that other than tell them to starve to death. I’m guessing that maybe stopping them from getting pregnant in the first place is the way to go. However, telling them to not have sex just doesn’t appear to work, so I reiterate, what would you suggest be done? (to those who object to non-married people using birth control and to abortions)
Bill:
You may not claim a position, but you make claims about MY position. You aren’t in a position to do that. Will you feel better if I put it in more highfalutin terms and say you are being intellectually dishonest? Ya like that better?
Speaking from my own experience, I got two of my three through their teen years without any pregnancies or STD’s. My youngest is on the threshold and I have high hopes for him. Managed the same for myself. Believe it or not, we still manage to have fun!
So how about it, sensitive erudite lefty Bill? How many kids ya got?
I have two teens and I am not a grandpa if that is what you are asking. No, I made no claim about your position, I asked folks who had a specific position to answer. Obviously if you are not opposed to abortion or to birth control the I have no disagreement with your position, dork.
Bill:
At least you are still fighting your corner. It’s sweet when this site goes dark. It reminds me of when they closed The Nation’s online forum over one of my posts. A useful lesson, one and all. It’s not bad language, all caps, or gratuitous insults that shut them down, it’s asking the question — the right question at the right time.
But you have asked a question too — not in good faith, I believe – yet I will answer it anyway. You and your friends on this site have projected an inaccurate lifestyle and value system on those of us you call wingnuts. I submit that if you take the time to learn what values conservatives really hold dear — and apply them to the raising of your children – they will be less likely to experience unplanned pregnancies and yucky diseases than if you didn’t. I’ll go another step and say that teaching conservative values to your children will yield better results than those values taught in the Seattle School District.
Hear the silence in here? C’mon, RR, Goldy, etc.! We are at righties 3, lefties 2. Who are the trolls now?
No, while you decided to project a party onto me and flame a response out, I really am curious to know how those I described would answer that question.
Are you actually suggesting that that government mandate what should be taught to kids by their parents? If not, how do you suggest these ‘values’ get taught? Who teaches them? Is it really practical to say that people who are themselves promiscuous teach children how to not be? Worse, I have been discussing teen pregnancy, those parents teaching children are themselves children.
Don’t you think there needs to be some sort of fallback position?
Also notice, that the only person who is making any sort of suggestion of an answer is someone who is basicly not one of those I asked, namely someone who is against abortion and against distributing birth control to non married women.
errr who is still making any sort. . .
*sigh*
If you want to see a decline in abortions, but keep the choice legal here is some good reading of a real world apporach to the problem. The key is an aggressive sex-education class not taught by some dip shit gym teacher, but in a serious adult content.
“The teenage fertility rate fell precipitately in Sweden after 1966 and is now one of the lowest in Europe. This decline can be seen in the context of major reforms enacted in 1975 whereby the school sex-education curriculum was revised, contraceptive services were improved, and abortion was provided free and on demand. By means of microsimulation, the possible roles of contraception and induced abortion in causing teenage fertility to fall are examined. Before 1975, the decline appears to have been caused primarily by an increase in the number of induced abortions. After that date, however, an increase in the use of highly efficient methods of contraception led to a decline in the pregnancy rate in such a way that, even though the proportion of teenagers who sought abortion increased, the abortion rate declined. Parallels are drawn with the experience of other European countries, and contrasts with that of the United States, where no such developments have occurred, are noted.
Here’s the link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....t=Abstract
The key to solving our problems is open, honest, intelligent dialouge about the real issues. Not cloaking yourself in some narrow minded view of the world.
There are other studies regarding South America where in all the countries abortion is ILLEGAL. Interesting to note, abortion rates in those countries have increased dramatically although the practice of aboriton is not allowed.
Those are the realities of a continent that outlawed abortion and plunged their collective heads in the sand and a country that took the problem head on and solved a lot of social problems in the public school system instead of relying on a bunch of Bible thumbers to preach abstinence only.
Commentby bill— 3/7/06@ 2:43 pm
“Oh please, I posted that study because it was the one I could find quickest. Tenth grade boys are tenth grade boys, if their sexual activity is up among teens taking abstinence only courses, then increases in STD and pregnancy rates will follow.”
Well if you want to make a claim, then provide better information to back it up. Your research is sloppy, which hardly makes your arguments convincing.
“I wasn’t asking about justification of sex ed, my question is, if you manage to get abortion made illegal and get restrictions on birth control (possibly to married women only) then what are you going to do about the increase in teen pregnency (and STD’s) that is going to follow.”
Your argument is a straw man. You’ve made no link between the cause (abstinence only sex ed or restricted birth control) and the effect (increased pregnancy) that would lead to abortions.
I think social conservatives don’t fit into the box you are trying to put them into, so to answer the question from your original post, you are miscontruing the views of social conservatives.
CF @ 55:
“Your argument is a straw man. You’ve made no link between the cause (abstinence only sex ed or restricted birth control) and the effect (increased pregnancy) that would lead to abortions.
Actually, Bill is correct, there is a correlation. Although, you won’t find those facts and figures on studies conducted in this country because it has never been addressed in the aggressive public manner that it should. However, in Europe, there are studies that absolutely prove that intensive and thorough sex ed classes, advanced and FREE contraceptives do in fact lower pregnancy rates, STD’s and ABORTION rates vs. abstinence only and restricted birth control.
It’s 2006, it’s high time you changed your archaic views regarding women and sex.
Bill:
Let’s go back to your opening post at 34 and read it again.
“Since we’ve an open thread, I have a question for those social conservative out there.” Did I project that sentence? No, you are projecting values onto us social conservatives.
Here is some reality. I hang out with a lot of conservatives. I like ’em. I have never heard of anyone who believes access to birth control should be restricted. Where did you get that, anyway?
Perhaps you are talking about free condoms handed out at school? Yes, I am very uncomfortable with that, on several levels. But that doesn’t mean I think someone – of any age – who wants or needs birth control shouldn’t be able to get it. I think I’m pretty typical. So who have you been talking to?
Another piece of reality. I am active in Republican politics. Awhile back, the KCGOP did an internal poll on abortion. Did you know that in King County at least, we couldn’t pass a law to ban abortion even if only Republicans were allowed to vote? We have people who feel strongly on both sides of this issue in the party, and we respect each other’s beliefs. You Dems could take a lesson.
But I see I still am not answering your question. Your problem is that you think in terms of government programs. If federally funded abstinence programs have been proven not to work, that must mean abstinence won’t prevent pregnancy and disease. What new government “program” would I replace the supposedly failed with?
GBS, your phrase “dipshit gym teacher” hits the nail on the head and is the correct attitude. This problem is not going to be solved by a gym teacher, or the school nurse, or the biology teacher, or the school counseling department, even if you give them another million dollars. The problem can only be solved by you, Bill — for your kids. Leave my kids alone.
And there are your social conservative values. Any questions?
Oh, and GBS — got any kids? We are still at righties 3, lefties 2, proving my assertion about respective replacement rates.
Commentby GBS— 3/7/06@ 4:53 pm
“If you want to see a decline in abortions, but keep the choice legal here is some good reading of a real world apporach to the problem. The key is an aggressive sex-education class not taught by some dip sh*t gym teacher, but in a serious adult content.” (explitive deleted)
Would you see this type of sex education as mandatory? Or would parent who disagree and want to teach their children about sex on their own be able to do so?
Lys:
Two kids, respecting the limited resources of the planet.
Abstinence programs work flawlessly — until someone has sex. Then all bets are off.
The fact of matter is publicly funded, in depth and comprehensive sex education classes and a variety of aggresive constraception programs do more to reduce unwanted pregnancies, transmission of STD’s and lower abortion rates.
CF, this is where dems and repubs have common ground: nobody wants unwanted pregnancies, STD’s or abortions. How we approach the common problem is where we differ.
We know, based on facts and case studies that an informed person makes better choices more often than uninformed people. People who have access to birth control will tend to use it more often then those who don’t.
The result of these two simple acts reduces the transmission of STD’s and unwanted pregnancies. Which result in a healthier population and less abortions.
Finally, abortions are a private medical procedure between a doctor and his patient protected by the 4th amendment and no business of the governments. If you don’t like abortions, don’t have one.
I don’t like cutting my fingers off with a skill saw, guess what? I avoid it like the plague.
this and this is what prompted the question (note once again I am grabbing the quickest source rather than the most complete). You keep trying to pull the question in terms of washington state. I am talking about the nation.
And I am not talking about the kids who are not going to have sex anyway, I am talking, as I said about the nation as a whole. Its clear the teen pregnancy rate is a)bankrupting the country and b) perpetuating poverty.
In my opinion its really not enough to say, well its not my kids so everyone should raise them the way I do. Unless you are willing to enforce that as a law its impratical and even then as GBS pointed out probably won’t work.
Conservative, if you can’t see the link between increased sexual activity with less birth control usage and increased pregnancy then you need to go back and actually pay attention to that 8th grade gym teacher.
@ 58:
I can’t see it as being mandatory. In the end, it is the right and the parent to make those determinations. I would see a program like this a voluntary attendance.
Okay, so we are at righties 3, lefties 4. Help me out, ConservativeFirst! I see that the lefty average is still below replacement level, though. You guys need some threes and fours. Goldy, what about you? I thought you were a family man…
And where is Roger Rabbit?
Bill:
I was waiting for that drugstore story. All I can say is so what? That clerk speaks for herself and no one else. Are you trying to make the case she is part of some kind of trend? And by the way, isn’t it a little undemocratic to force someone to sell something they don’t believe in?
RE: South Dakota. Again, so what? The legislature voted on it. Isn’t that more democratic than Justice Blackmun making up a constituional right? GBS, you were making sense there for awhile, but I just looked up the fourth amendment, and I don’t see where it allows abortion. And I’m pro choice!
One other thing, I’m sorry I don’t have a citation at hand to support it, but it is my understanding that teen pregnancies, as well as unmarried pregnancies, peaked out a decade or so ago and are now in steady decline. Am I wrong about this? Not to deny the problem, but is this really what is bankrupting our nation at this time? I had the vague notion that us social conservatives, with our conservative values, had actually made a little progress on this particular issue.
Here is a link. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs.....trends.pdf
Bill, it appears you have been wasting everyone’s time. No wonder even Roger Rabbit can’t be troubled on this one.
If you know what I was refering to its a bit disingenious to ask.
And if fifty-one percent of people vote to make slavery legal should it still be? If you open a business yes you either need to sell everything involved in that business or get in another business.
Imagine if someone opened the only tire store in town and refused to carry mud tires, then manuvered to keep other tire stores out of town. Remember Walmart is the only pharmacy in most of the towns they are in and thats their own doing mostly.
And from that same site look at question 4. The rate of teen pregnancies is “nearly twice the rate in Australia or Canada and more than four times the rate in France.” Which I think is a bit of a problem.
Note that appears to be an awkward phrasing (or I quoted poorly) they are saying our rate is the higher one, double Canada’s or Australia’s and four times France’s.
Lys: Puddybud reporting. We have two teenagers. Would have had two more but my job caused me to travel all over the world so the wife stopped because she works too. But my wife’s siblings average 4 children each.
Sorry Bill, Walmart has no policy against selling birth control. Leave it to HA to drag Walmart into every political issue.
Having said that, Walmart is under no obligation to sell birth control products or mud tires. Being in a business is a private enterprise, and a business owner can choose not to sell anything he or she chooses. This is America. And there is nothing to prevent Walgreen or mom and pop from setting up next door and selling birth control only, or mud tires only.
It doesn’t take an economics degree (which I have) to figure out that there is probably good money to be made selling birth control products, even in a rural redstate town.
Your slavery question is ridiculous.
Thanks Puddybud. Are you a righty or a lefty?
Bill, follow the link and look at the numbers. I see why you brought up the mud tires question. You are spinning your wheels!
Bill: I am for birth control and against abortion. I have problems with schools handing out condoms. The children are wards of their parents. Schools are not the parents. Sorry NEA you are treading upon my jurisdiction. I suggest having stores sell condoms to teenagers at a reduced cost but limit the quantity. The quantity can be debated as I don’t want teenagers to think unlimited sex is their’s to have out of wedlock.
Lys, you must be new here. I am a righty. I have been called a nazi, a neo-con, white, and many choice adjectives but the librul “free” thinking idiots here love stifling free speech!.
Puddybud @73,
Lys has been here before. Probably got disenchanted and left, but came back. I understand the case, if that were the issue…welcome back, Lys…
Isn’t it funny that the righties are all for state rights except when they’re not? Remember Florida and the Terri Schivo case? What happened to state’s rights there? What a bunch of fucking liars and hypocrites. And fuck South Dakota. Not that I’d ever go to that Hell hole but now I will never knowing buy anything that’s made there. If all goes well the place will blow away in some duststorm.
Left Turn @42
Goldy I can’t wait for your new system. If the users get a say over the threads than several of the trolls will have to revert back to their republican child raping ways and hang out elsewhere because they’ll certainly get pushed aside here.
Wow! “Infantile” has a new meaning…
Puddybud – What about “Cletus” Thats my favorite.
So this puts us at Righties 5, Lefties 4. Do you want to claim a position for your siblings?
What about you, MarkS?
So Bill, which makes you more of an irrelevance, the Guttmacher Institute survey or the fact that you lefties are aborting yourselves into extinction?
Sorry, Lys @77, I await my fate. Soon enough…
Lys, my wife’s siblings are mostly apolitical.
Also Lys, I am so glad they are culling their herd! I say support the Roe Effect!
Hey libruls, looks like one of your own got out of WA State.
http://www.azcentral.com/commu.....07-ON.html
Now doesn’t this guy look like your average donk?
Wow, Puddybud…
Um, did the sheep leave a phone number?
Oh, shuddup! My pooch thinks she can help….
“Your slavery question is ridiculous.” Bullshit. That was in response to “Again, so what? The legislature voted on it.” Just because a legislature votes, in fact just because a majority voted for something does not make it legal or ethical. If you really do have a degree in economice I challange you to show a store that can make a profit on something with as low of a margin as birth control. You might manage on the tires but only if they are extremely popular.
My point is that large retail operations have driven those small businesses out and if you actually have read that article, the pharmacist in question did work at walmart. Incidently, walmart was recent ordered to sell morning after pills in one state or another, if it took a court order I would say there is a policy, now isn’t there?
Yes, there has been a decline in teen births. We are currently down to on third of teen girls in the US get pregnant. One third . If you really want to act like that not a big problem go for it.
But look at the raw numbers from that last site.
Along with that, how many of those kids of kids will never work? Will them selves have the next generation of kids just 15 years later? Heres something that will hit home, think of your daughter. Now if she has just two friends one of them will be pregnant before hitting 20.
It’s true I don’t visit the site enough to rememeber everyone’s flavor.
I think my point about the Roe effect and liberal fantasies about us moving in lockstep has pretty well been made.
Bill, please follow my suggestion at 44 and read up about the Roe effect and its long term consequences for liberals and Democrats in the U.S. Also, read recent columns by Mark Steyn for his take on population shrinkage in Europe and the developed world.
It could be that teenage pregnacy isn’t the problem you say it is, but rather the solution. In fact, our salvation. How’s that for thinking out of the box?
When Roe vs. Wade was decided, nobody told us that abortion would become just another form of birth control for eighth grade girls. And if you had predicted that there would be 40 million abortions in the U.S. between then and now, you would have been called crazy.
Forty million abortions. Forty million children not born. How many of them would have grown up to be good liberal Democrats? Figure it out.
Thanks puddy, I have to say thats one of the best positions I have seen on the isssue. Any ideas on how to get pharmacies to do that? Also, do you object to organizations giving them away, or do you feel they are only gonna be valued if charged for?
Lys,
Point taken. I’m just not sure that Mark Steyn (I refer to him as the Nuke) will be enough to “invigorate” our society…
I am, admittedly, wrong on important things like this, usually…
bill–
How many woman do you know who had abortions in their youth?
I know at least 8. Try talking seriously with someone who went thru that process. The scars last a lifetime. How many woman live to regret it?? Many. We have had several single women live with us who choose to keep the child or adoption. ZERO REGRETS. ZERO.
Asking the “victims” of abortions is important, don’t you think??
Abortion has many spokesperson’s….yet few that publicly admit they had abortions and are glad. Most seem to be bull-dykes.
Who would be glad? Are you insane? I’ve known quite a few women, no not bull dykes, who felt they had made the right choice, but glad? And yes I have met women who were teen mothers and regretted that fact.
I would say regretted being a teen mother, mostly because of a fundamental inability to care for the child.
bill–
“Right choice”???? How can killing an unborn child who is part of you be the “right choice”. It’s more like “I made a choice and now I have to try and live with it”. It’s never a “right choice” bill.
And those “regretful” teen mothers??? I’ll bet many of them made some bad choices that impact their children horribly. Should they have aborted their child?
As for the Bull Dykes….they seem to be the ones with the megaphones.
Cynical: I am sure the bull dykes would love to mate with windie and Bob from Boeing. They like STRONG men!
Bill: If you give condoms away, the chillens will be fucking like Roger Rabbit claims! But we all know he probably gets it up once a week or once a month. Maybe he needs a bull dyke as his crane!
Having chillens running around looking to whom to fuck next is not good. Sex is one thing but making love with your woman is a great thing. Free condoms just provides an outlet for chillens to have sex, but what would we be teaching them? Remember George Carlin’s definitions of fuck. Many of them would apply here!
Lys: You just can’t change ’em donks. Many months ago I posted the lost donks numbers and these ASSHeads didn’t flinch. They seem to miss the less developed countries are fucking and producing and the Muslims have many child families. Last week in Canada I watched muslim mother after muslim mother with three or more little ones. I saw on Indian girl who couldn’t be over 20 with her first. Now I am in the DC area and I watch the same shawl covered mothers with their litters. And the donks who support the islamofascists (becuz I am the neo-con and I love Israel), just don’t get it.
I posted Mark Steyn last week and did these jackASSes oops… Goldy’s ASSHeads comprehend what he was saying? No Lys, it went right over their fucking stupid heads. They are culling their own and don’t realize the number of donks EXTERMINATED would have created more donks. But let them cull their herd.
So as I stated months before I am for donk abortion!!!!! Go donks go. Visit Planned Parenthood! Visit that abortion doctor! If my librul people want to exterminate themselves I am all for it now! So GBS I have changed my position from the light you shined on the subject. Donk Abortion Is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
Goldy, please put on a nice spread regarding abortion. Be sure to spread the word, donks abort thyself!
Lys, I forgot about Cletus. As I remember it was horseless looselips who called me that. He is the same jackASS who called other people Niggers here. The winner was the Field Niggers vs. House Niggers and the masta coming comment. I will NEVER fucking forget that. No apology, nuthin. Libruls don’t change their attitudes or their spots. They only need librul blacks for power. What have they done for blacks? So yes Lys, thanks for reminding me of Cletus!
PuddyBud : “Cynical: I am sure the bull dykes would love to mate with windie and Bob from Boeing. They like STRONG men!”
Keep spreading the gospel, PuddyByd!
Jesus is watching!
Donnod@92: I am sorry. I forgot that bull dykes are probably your speed too! My mistake, I will not forget donnageddon and the call of the bull dykes!
Yes, Jesus is watching. He said: “I and my Father are One.” Remember that when you claim Jesus didn’t say something in the Bible that God the Father did!
Commentby bill— 3/7/06@ 5:47 pm
“Conservative, if you can’t see the link between increased sexual activity with less birth control usage and increased pregnancy then you need to go back and actually pay attention to that 8th grade gym teacher.”
You’ve made the case for something without proof (other than your own opinion), while attempting to look like you’ve actually researched the issue. You might correct in your thesis, but just because you say something is true, doesn’t make it true. The study you provided is flawed and doesn’t show increased sexual activity (especially in girls), so either the boys are having sex with each other or abstinence only sex ed causes a small part of the female population to become easy. If you have others studies please post them. Otherwise, your argument is a straw man. Without cause there can’t be effect.
Commentby GBS— 3/7/06@ 5:16 pm
“However, in Europe, there are studies that absolutely prove that intensive and thorough sex ed classes, advanced and FREE contraceptives do in fact lower pregnacy rates, STD’s and ABORTION rates vs. abstinence only and restricted birth control.”
Your study didn’t address STDs. My expectation is that they would go up, since the most “highly effective birth control” is birth control pills, leaving condoms as disease control (my opinon of course). Most people don’t like condoms and with unwanted pregnancy taken care of “why bother”.
“It’s 2006, it’s high time you changed your archaic views regarding women and sex.”
Since I haven’t stated my views regarding women and sex (at least on this thread), why do you assume they are archaic? Is it because I disagree with bill’s weakly linked and poorly researched conclusions?
Puddybud “I am sorry. I forgot that bull dykes are probably your speed too! My mistake, I will not forget donnageddon and the call of the bull dykes!”
Yeah, PuddyBud, the “Bull dykes”. Where do you discover these concepts? WHy do you bring them up?
Jesus is watching. And he is none to happy with you.
Puddybud, you complain about ‘cletus’, ‘house niggers’, ‘field noggers’ etcetra, these words seem to hurt you so much and bring pain or suffering to yourself. But on the other hand, you, Puddybud are one of the fastest typers here to quickly label those that have views against your own as ‘Bull Dykes’, ASSheads’, ‘Donks’, ‘JackAsses’, ‘rugratass’, ‘Donnon’, ‘Donks’, etc. As they say, Puddybud, before you start preaching, take a good look at the face in the mirror. Maybe your ways could use some ‘mending’ along with many of the other posters (me included)
“GBS, you were making sense there for awhile, but I just looked up the fourth amendment, and I don’t see where it allows abortion. And I’m pro choice!”
This is why it is difficult to have real adult discussion with a conservative. You know what else isn’t in the 4th amendment? Wiretapping phones or email message. But, they are still governed by the privacy laws of the 4th amendment.
This is such a lame dodge by righties, it makes having civil debate impossible.
You were doing pretty good there until you imploded.
Puddybud @ 73:
I’ll have to disagree with you, I think you’ve been called everything, but a white man. LOL
GBS
Hmmm. Look here at Lys. The vitriol, the hatred, the contempt he holds for his ideological adversaries – especially for HA.org.
Must have sucked big time to work on Rossi , Irons and I-912’s campaigns.
Another thing you can say to Puddy that is harmless and will piss him off is to refer to him as ,”Benson”.
“Benson!! Could you see who’s at the door?”
Heh! Heh! Don’t mess with me you whinin’ beeatch…
CF @ 94:
I finished reading an article regarding the transmission of STD’s in Europe. It is a double edged sword. in the 70’s STD rates dropped, in part due to the use of condoms as you said, and knowledge of how diseases are transmitted. in the mid 90’s – 2000 certain STD’s are on the rise in Europe. The study concluded that the steep drop in STD’s caused a complacency attitude in the general population with government officidals. People began to stop using protection and reverted to riskier behavior because it wasn’t such a big problem anymore.
The study went on to say that Western Europe needed to regain their footing with aggresive STD campaigns. Primarily for AIDS.
The lesson here, is that education and contraception worked well. People became complacent and the problem resurfaced. The solution is to go back to what worked.
Your analysis or opinion regarding condoms usage is correct. This is where an aggresive sex-ed program keeps the value of using a condom at the forefront of young adults minds, and old farts, too.
Condoms: They’re not just for unwanted pregnancies.
Dr Quest & Race or AKA Horseless Looselips: I take no offense at Benson. Apparently you missed the premise of the show. Benson, all suave and debonair helped the guvnur make decisions, ran his household and was the glue to all activities. In real life Robert Robert Guiallme was kool. So I will take the BEnson call with honor, jackASS!
GBS: Here is what my favorite foil donnod said:
“JUst imagine PuddyBud’s wide pink ass trotting out in a street in Baghdad… “I am an American.. I am here under the authority of George W. Bush to save you from yourself! Please put the WMD we sold you to fight Iraq on the ground and embrace the democracy we are going to give you.”
Boom!
Comment by Donnageddon — 2/28/06 @ 11:05 pm”
Then from horseless looselips:
“Puddwhack revived PacMan. PacMan claims to be black and so does Puddwhack. Sometimes Puddwhack talks like some depression era Mississippi field hand and thinks he sounds like some 21st century urban black man. It’s hilarious, embarrassing and slightly sad all at the same time.
Why do you want to do that, Puddwhack?
Comment by headless lucy — 2/28/06 @ 11:16 pm
And of course windieASS had to step in the fray.
“special notice to puddy-pac: Nope, sorry. Not fooling anyone. You’ve failed to show any ability to back up anything you say… I’m sure your next meeting will ‘fall through’ due to ‘unforseen circumstances’ again… And which of your identities is black now? It was pacman, but then it was puddy…
Either way, put up or shut up. Once I hear from an honest source that you’re different people, I’ll believe it. Until then its more rightwing crypto-racist garbage.
Comment by windie — 3/1/06 @ 8:36 am
And windie the week of March 20 is your day of reckoning. When GBS views two black people walk into his favorite location from opposite directions there will be no doubt, except of course you are a jackASS in need of a bull dyke!
Little puddytat cougar meowed this:
“Puddybud, you complain about ‘cletus’, ‘house niggers’, ‘field noggers’ etcetra, these words seem to hurt you so much and bring pain or suffering to yourself. But on the other hand, you, Puddybud are one of the fastest typers here to quickly label those that have views against your own as ‘Bull Dykes’, ASSheads’, ‘Donks’, ‘JackAsses’, ‘rugratass’, ‘Donnon’, ‘Donks’, etc. As they say, Puddybud, before you start preaching, take a good look at the face in the mirror. Maybe your ways could use some ‘mending’ along with many of the other posters (me included)”
Commentby Cougar— 3/8/06@ 4:28 am
Look cougar, the N-Word is off limits. But what is a field nogger? Damn, you be sooooooo stoopid I have to explain it again. The N-word word is not a term of endearment. It is a denigrating putdown. An ASSHead is one who follows Goldy’s politics. ASSes are the commentators from the left. The bull dyke comment was a continuing commentary from before. You are so shallow not to comprehend the difference between calling someone a nigger and calling rujax rugratASS. RugratASS is whom he is because he can’t see to elevate himself from the gutter or the rug with anything he writes on ASSes!
Cougar, remember I am a neo-con and have again been called it many times here. So donk bothers you. How about moonbat moby troll?
Puddybud at 103:
Wide pink ass, now that one made me laugh. You know what I learned in the navy? It’s all pink on the inside, and I think you know what I’m talkin’ about.
The N-word. Yeah, touchy subject. If a white guy drops an N-bomb, all bets are off, it’s an insult. If a black guy says “what’s up my nigga'” then it’s a term of endearment. The critical sound comes at the end, though. If you end the word with an “er” sound, get ready because the shit is gonna start.
If you end the same word with “ga” and you’re black you get away with it most of the time. If you’ve earned some respect with black person you can get away with it if you’re white and not in wide open public.
GBS: I was off the line for a full day.
Yes, all pink inside, the pinker the more hot it is!!!
Also we do use it as a greeting. I have called some very close white guys it and they cracked up! One is a Marine LT Col. whom I’ve known for 18 years and he is white and walks like a marine. You know what that means!
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