Just a reminder, the Seattle chapter of Drinking Liberally meets again tonight (and every Tuesday,) 8pm at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue East. I’m going to try to stop by early for beer and conversation.
Can’t Bring Yourself to Type the Word “Ass”?
Eager to share our brilliant political commentary and blunt media criticism, but too genteel to link to horsesass.org? Well, good news, ladies: we also answer to HASeattle.com, because, you know, whatever. You're welcome!
Goldy, Please keep Don off the hard stuff. His hangovers are getting worse.
This one’s for the wingers.
I don’t think it matters the damage is don(e).
Hey Goldy, I will be absent this evening, but that may be a good thing, as some of your commenters may mistake our meeting for a protest…
You should see them coming, orange covered goose steppers, carrying satchels.
john, slightly paranoid isn’t he? That dude needs a drink. You should invite him tonight.
awe bummer, thehim won’t be there.
Thats it, I’m not going then.
Chard, nope just sick and tired of being told he hates America by the wingers.
I dunno John, the guys that shout “We are not wimps.” usually are.
Chardonnay, you should go one week. This is actually the first week I’ll have missed since I helped start it back up here in Seattle.
OOps posted in the wrong thread.
Char, come on and show up. we would love to have you spew your stuff until you are blue, I mean red in the face.
And besides it might be a change for you.
You see the difference here is we won’t prescreen the audience. But we might might have someone dressed up like a secret Service agent to drag you out if we don’t like your bumper sticker.
I won’t be there, so if any process servers ask for me, take their names and find out who sent them.
I won’t be surprised if the righty crybabies want to sue me for emotional distress. Poor, poor babies.
dan, are you lost?
thehim, uh it would be very entertaining, if I were drunk. But I think not. I can’t say there would be one productive thing discussed. besides I live way out in rural king county.
Perhaps I could just make suggestions here to help your party.
oh where to begin. connectivity!
Perhaps I could just make suggestions here to help your party.
I’d prefer it you made more suggestions to help our COUNTRY. I haven’t sworn allegiance in my life to either political party. I’ve been an independent throughout my adult life until 2002, when my jaw dropped to the floor over how easy it was for Bush and Cheney to lie to us about Iraq (I have friends from the Middle East and know a bit more than the average American about the region). Since then, I’ve come to believe that whatever constitutes the “left” these days needs to win back its power, or we’re in serious trouble. For me, my loyalty to the Democratic Party is a subset of my loyalty for this country.
thehim @ 14
I can see why you feel that way at a national level, but on a local/ state level where do your loyalties lie?
Let’s see…should I go drinking with a bunch of cocksuckers…
or should I keep working on election contest documentation???
Hmmmmmm–
The problem with you LEFTISTS is that you would rather hear yourselves talk than roll up your sleeves and work on productive stuff. Goldy…I advised you (Unsolicited Advice albeit) MONTHS ago that you needed to work hard to dredge up hard evidence but you laughed me off.
It will be interesting to see who gets the last laugh.
PS–
Have you seen any of the recent, last minute panic information requests from the Democrats to various County’s???? I think it finally dawned on them that the Judge isn’t going to listen to a bunch of LEFTIST JUGHEADS squealing that things also happened in Rossi county’s. Both sides need to present compelling evidence dude.
Eat, Drink & Be Gay my little LEFTIST pinheaded friends.
But if you drop anything on the floor and jpgee is around, I’d think twice before bending over to pick it up. Get a couple Shirley Temple’s in that twisted bastard and no one is safe!!
Oh and don’t drive home if over .08.
Big Brother IS watching.
Mr. Cynical
Thanks for the well-wishes. And, good luck to you working on your “election contest documentation” this evening.
Wear a bib—It’ll help keep the drool out of your coloring book.
dj–
Have fun….and practice “safe drinking” which does NOT mean as jpgee tells all the boys wearing a condom on your head (the one between your shoulders).
Some of the documentation on the 348?? unverified provisional ballots that Weird Al Yankovic Logan’s crew shoved thru Accuvote creates more questions than answers. The KingCo Audit trail on information they are now being forced to release is abysmal. “Model Election”???? Model??? My Ass, Your Ass…hell, even the damn Horses Ass!!
Medic!!!!!
Cynical, puh-leeeze explain how your washing machine works. I understand the part about feeding $100 bills into the rollers and turning the crank, but I want to know what happens inside to make $100 bills that go in as L & I taxes for injured workers come out as Rossi slush funds.
If prr shows up, he should be easy to recognize. He’s the little runt with the shaved head wearing the Doc Martens and steel jock strap.
NEWS FLASH!!
jpgee will be fashionably late.
Word has it his dress wasn’t ready at the laundramat!
Plus oh so many juicy shades of lipstick for him to choose from.
Please ask the barkeep if he has any Village People CD’s to play.
YMCA, In the Navy et al
Also, please order me a Perrier with a water back…my new special yummy drink!
OK, OK, OK it was me not jpgee.
Yipes…you pee-brains ought to see what some of the handwriting experts have come up with. Looks like America’s Dumbest Criminals material. I wonder how long some of this stuff has been going on?
The best handwriting experts Tom McCabe’s money can buy!!!
(oops I means BIAW member’s L&I money)
Cynical, you’re on a roll with the fetishes!
Pee, penises, gay sex, cross-dressing! HA is the outlet for your most vibrant fantasies!
Just don’t use that fraud word. there was no fraud. singing multiple ballots is not fraud. putting unchecked provisionals thru the machine is not fraud. Finding ballots 11 differenht times in 11 different places is not fraud. and no matter what do not say fraudoire.
when in rome….
chardonnay,
Turn off the Michael Savage and put away the white whine, fella.
Oh sorry that usually scheduled for 3 or 4 AM.
Hey dubyasux,
you need to listen to savage rippin gwdummy a new asshole on the radio tonight.
He’s got buchanon on, talkin about the next step of nafta, called tafta.
Talking about gwdummy ruining america, and selling us out to corporate america, and china.
WTF?
Is buchanon capable of getting elected or what?
He sure talks the shit I want to hear.
Goldy, Do you and DON ever wear white neck braces like Teddy Kennedy did so you can be a “victim” and get your drinks for free?
Don–
You like using that word “sucks” or “sux”, don’t you.
You are wearing it out.
Talk about fetishes!
Are you cranky Don because momma wouldn’t let you out of your cage tonite so you can play pattycake with your limpwristed pal jpgee?
DD @ 31
Savage Weinerdude has turned against the Texas tornado? Must be because ol’ Dubya refuses to “kick gays”. Wonder why?
Ha Ha Ha I laugh at you BIAW buddy!
I’m not Don.
Let’s here more of your amusing, perverted fantasies about your favorite HA commenters!
It’s all just your own self-loathing! What a laugh!
I usually dont listen to him, but hes right on the money tonight.
He also had something for ol’ $7/hour chuckie.
Talking up the unions, and supporting “family wage jobs”.
I need to hear more from buchanon, is he going to run in 08?
It’s pretty strange times we’re living in when Dubya supporters point the finger at a guy like Buchannan and call him a commie or a socialist.
I don’t trust the guy as far as I can throw him myself.
whoa DD, Pat Buchanan, are you sure? what are you thinking? He is as conservative as they get. Even John McLaughlin gives him crap. I like Pat Buchanan too. I believe he is a Republican, I guess you are too. Welcome home buddy.
Goldy and DON, I think this Marine is talking to yoy. Can he could and drink with you, or would you just leave the table and hide in the girl’s restroom? [hehe] As always, JCH One Marine vs. 20 Idiots–Guess Who Wins?
On Friday we noted that a score of Ohio University students and others had staged a “die-in” to protest the liberation of Iraq. The Post, the student newspaper, carried a letter from Marc Fencil, a senior who is also a Marine currently stationed in Iraq, that is so excellent we reprint it in full:
It’s a shame that I’m here in Iraq with the Marines right now and not back at Ohio University completing my senior year and joining in blissful ignorance with the enlightened, war-seasoned protesters who participated in the recent “die-in” at College Gate. It would appear that all the action is back home, but why don’t we make sure? That’s right, this is an open invitation for you to cut your hair, take a shower, get in shape and come on over! If Michael Moore can shave and lose enough weight to fit into a pair of camouflage utilities, then he can come too!
Make sure you all say your goodbyes to your loved ones though, because you won’t be seeing them for at least the next nine months. You need to get here quick because I don’t want you to miss a thing. You missed last month’s discovery of a basement full of suicide vests from the former regime (I’m sure Saddam’s henchmen just wore them because they were trendy though). You weren’t here for the opening of a brand new school we built either. You might also notice women exercising their new freedom of walking to the market unaccompanied by their husbands.
There is a man here, we just call him al-Zarqawi, but we think he’d be delighted to sit down and give you some advice on how you can further disrespect the victims of Sept. 11 and the 1,600 of America’s bravest who have laid down their lives for a safer world. Of course he’ll still call you “infidel” but since you already agree that there is no real evil in the world, I see no reason for you to be afraid. Besides, didn’t you say that radical Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance?
I’m warning you though -it’s not going to be all fun and games over here. You might have bad dreams for the next several nights after you zip up the body bag over a friend’s disfigured face. I know you think that nothing, even a world free of terror for one’s children, is worth dying for, but bear with me here. We’re going to live in conditions you’ve never dreamt about. You should get here soon though, because the temperatures are going to be over 130 degrees very soon and we will be carrying full combat loads (we’re still going to work though). When it’s all over, I promise you can go back to your coffee houses and preach about social justice and peace while you continue to live outside of reality.
If you decide to decline my offer, then at least you should sleep well tonight knowing that men wearing black facemasks and carrying AK-47s yelling “Allahu Akbar” over here are proud of you and are forever indebted to you for advancing their cause of terror. While you ponder this, I’ll get back to the real “die-in” over here. I don’t mind.
He sure hates you guys tonight!!
LOL!
You are definitely not in the same league as buchanon char.
Not if he’s telling the truth.
MAybe he’s thinking about switching teams!!
Hes carrying the dems torch tonight!
no DD, Pat never carries a dem torch. You obviously do not listen to him much. Start rerading his columns and watch him on the McLaughlin Group, he is also on MSNBC alot. he is a republican. Pat has always been for closing the borders. go to drudge report and find his name in the list to read his columns.
Hes talking family wage jobs, unions, and getting rid of the free trade bullshit gw is pushing.
Sounds like my kinda guy.
http://www.wnd.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=185
pick a column any column. tell me he is not conservative.
Pat has been around a long time, he knows whats what. start with the culture of death column.
I care much less about who’s team, much more his views about where we should be heading.
Well, I knew it had to be too good to be true.
I only heard enough to get interested.
pat is a cool guy, I like him. some think he is too extreme. he is more of a free thinker and doesn’t try to win the popularity contest. he deeply cares about america, the borders and the constitution.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Tooo funny!
Dipsyduuuudle listens to Savage!
OMG! Even I, a right thinking adult, don’t listen to him
Doodle?
Are you a closet conservative??
I wonder, is there is a support group for closet conservatives cross dressing as loony liberals?
Come on out Dooodle!
what a bunch of regurgatated crap
nothing but hate
Ya, namechanger has nothing to say, so he’s now troll number 1.
CynicalSucks @ 30
chardonnay (a.k.a. white whine) is not a “fella,” she’s a sow, or cow, or hen, or … oh what the hell, she can be bi if she wants to.
diggin @ 31
Buchanan realizes Geedummy is NOT a conservative. Wonder how long it will take the rest of the conservatives to realize that.
Cynical @ 32
Do you like it Cynical? I like it, so I’m gonna keep using it. BTW you suck too, but I’m not the person who dreamed up “CynicalSucks” — wish I had thought of it, but I didn’t. That’s somebody else.
Your fan club is growing, Sucky … oops, I mean Cynical.
Namechanger dumbass@go away,
Here try something a little more realistic:
http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc597.html
damn …did you guys find time to drink??
I missed it cause of work, I was hoping for some good stories!
chards @ 36
Oh c’mon chards, REAL conservatives — I mean REAL ones — aren’t all THAT bad, just a little misguided. It’s you neo-commies who really, really suck.
Now, don’t tell me that you didn’t know the so-called “neo-conservatives” are actually an offshoot of the ultra-ultra-lefties? To be precise, a descendant of Trotskyite Leninism? You DID know that, didn’t you? Don’t kid us now, chards. Surely you knew all the neocons who have Shrub’s ear are Extreme Makeover Trotskyites? Ironic, isn’t it, that the good ol’ GOP — which for decades warned us of the dangers of communism — has been taken over by a gang of Trotskyites!
In case you DIDN’T know that neocons are made-over commies, here’s some reading material to get you started.
http://www.rense.com/general39/meets.htm
http://windsofchange.net/archives/003626.php
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j061303.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/got.....ied46.html
http://www.peaceaware.com/NeoCon.shtml
http://www.majority.com/news/jeet1.html
http://www.chroniclesmagazine......72303.html
NOW do you understand why Pat Buchanan DOESN’T LIKE neocons? Oh … and here’s what Pat has to say about the neocons’ military adventure in Iraq:
http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=2759
Can you say it, chards? All together now: NEOCOMMIES!!!
DamnageD @ 53
I missed it cause of family time, but here’s a good story for you. Mr. Cynical, who is widely suspected in reputable liberal circles* of working for the BIAW even though he denies it, is believed to have a washing machine on his desk. This is one of the old fashioned washing machines with two rollers and a hand crank. What this machine does is nothing short of miraculous. Mr. Cynical feeds $100 bills into it, then turns the crank. When the $100 bills come out of the rollers they may look the same, but they’re not the same. They went in as L & I taxes for injured workers and came out as Rossi slush funds. Beats me how it does that. I’ve been trying to get Mr. Cynical to explain what happens inside his washing machine, but he won’t. Apparently he wishes to keep the inner workings of the BIAW money laundry a trade secret.
* Reputable liberal circles refers, of course, to HorsesAss.org’s inner circle of contributing liberal intellectuals. (Me, for example.)
my guess is the only thing hes crankin is the little piece o meat he pisses from.
oh, no….did I just step on an crusty mans toes?
hey “White whine”…
FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-FRAUD-
“Tonite on ANIMAL PLANET”, the announcer says quietly, “We will witness the unusual exposure of that Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude.”
“In never before seen footage we will see the that Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude come out in the open in his natural skin.”
“Usually,” the announcer continues quietly, “that Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude attempts to convincingly disguise himself so he can fit in with the herd that surrounds him. Tonite however, WATCH! See how that Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude accidently exposes himself!”
Hey dubyasux,
you need to listen to savage rippin gwdummy a new asshole on the radio tonight.
He’s got buchanon on, talkin about the next step of nafta, called tafta.
Talking about gwdummy ruining america, and selling us out to corporate america, and china.
WTF?
Is buchanon capable of getting elected or what?
He sure talks the shit I want to hear. -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:06 pm
“Now look! … Look how he looks around and realizes he has opened himself up to ridicule, see how he desperately tries to back pedal..”
I usually dont listen to him, but hes right on the money tonight. -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:17 pm
“Now in his confusion, he quickly tries to don his much needed and missing camouflage.”
He sure hates you guys tonight!!
LOL! -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:30 pm
“His desperation is growing.”
MAybe he’s thinking about switching teams!!
Hes carrying the dems torch tonight! -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:33 pm
“Frantically, he tries to prove to his herd he is really one of them.”
Hes talking family wage jobs, unions, and getting rid of the free trade bullshit gw is pushing.
Sounds like my kinda guy. -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:39 pm
“His fear is palpable, that poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude!”
Well, I knew it had to be too good to be true.
I only heard enough to get interested. -Comment by Diggindude— 4/12/05 @ 9:43 pm
“Clearly, that poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude must maintain his hiding place amongst the herd as he exhibits the common chickenly trait so dominate in Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude.”
“Well, ladies and gentlemen, we can only hope that poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude will be re-integrated back into the herd.”
“Next week on ANIMAL PLANET, we will discuss the pro’s and con’s of owning Pet Liberals and explore many pressing questions regarding owning them: Is it possible for them to learn GOOD HOME TRAINING? How do we keep them from annoying the neighbors? Do muzzles work? Are they REALLY too expensive to own?
“Thank you for joining us tonite on ANIMAL PLANET.”
Did you ever tell us why you changed your name from “gwdummy is a cocksucker” to this more silly name?
I missed it.
You are more of a fool now, than you were when you were anonym”ass”. Cant you see that everyone except me ignores you?
It must be the fact you carried the “gwdummy is a dribbling cocksucker” moniker for 6 days, without realizing you were actually calling your gwdummy a “cocksucker”. LOL!
Oh well.
Oh, did you get the new info i posted showing why repubs. are more like nazi’s?
Its much more accurate than that stupid shit you keep posting.
Namechangin gw cocksucker@ anywhere,
If you really are a cocksucking gwdummy asslicker, post again.
If you are Not a gwdummy cocksucking asslicker, dont post again.
I’m waiting…….
I think you’ll post, because you are embarrassed to have kept the “gwdummy is sucking don’s cock” name for so long, without knowing it, and you’ll try some more stupid name calling shit to save face!!
Asslicker…….. are you there?
Anonym”ass”licker…………
You dipshit!!
LOL!
DamnageD @ 56
Oh no, not at all, there’s a Mrs. Cynical (who occasionally posts here) who is devoted to Mr. Cynical’s happiness. So I’m sure she blows him whenever he gets too cranky, if for no other reason just for her own peace. Mrs. Cynical, in addition to being “pleasingly plump” as she describes herself (we have a 50-cent pool going here on HA on her weight; the 475 lb. square is still available, if you’re interested), also is pleasingly liberal. What actually happened is that Mr. Cynical died and went to Hell for his evil life (working for BIAW was a BIG strike against him), and found himself married to a Democrat. And here he thought he was in an earthly liberal blog HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WELCOME TO HELL, MR. CYNICAL!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
“UPDATE from last nights show, Ladies and Gentleman”:
“That poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude, fearful of not being accepted back into the herd, raises his neck feathers in a SHOW of aggression.”
“Attempting to imitate his surrogate herd leader, that poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude postures, pecks, prattles and pouts in a fit of pique.”
“Alas, that poor Rare Camouflaged Closet Conservative, the Cluck-a-doodle Dude, for all his high pitched whining noise, is all gums and no teeth.”
Pet Libs @ 59
I posted about why Pat Buchanan hates neo-conservatives — because they’re actually made-over Trotskyites, and Buchanan can’t stand commies — but it’s hung up in Goldy’s spam filter. Oh well, maybe it’ll be up by tomorrow. Check back in the morning.
Is that it?
I pissed all over you, and this is the response?
I think I pissed all over every opinion you ever posted, and you got bupkis? Sorry gwdummyisacocksucker, not good enough.
ANIMAL PLANET hasn’t covered the Common Donny Drunk.
Stay tuned for future shows.
Diggin @ 60
“It must be the fact you carried the ‘gwdummy is a dribbling cocksucker’ moniker for 6 days, without realizing you were actually calling your gwdummy a ‘cocksucker’. LOL!”
HAW! HAW! I’m loving it! These right-wing suck jobs are fucking stupid! Apparently the fastest sperm isn’t always the smartest one.
This is your brain: 0
This is your drug addled, beer soaked, immature, high school brain: O!
The big yellow bus comes early.
Go to bed little Dipsy Cluck-a-doodle Dude.
Pet Libs @ 63
WTF are you cackling about? Don’t you know how to cluck in English?
This “gwdummyisacocksucker” name,
Is this your way of “secretly” critisizing gwdummy for having a live in male prostitute?
Are you trying to tell us something?
Helloooooooo……….
whats your name going to be tomorrow? Are you going back to anonym”ass”?
Or are you coming back as “gwdummyisacocksucker”?
Pet Libs @ 67, 69, and elsewhere
It appears he may be insulting me, but I can’t tell for sure.
makes one wonder just whose “brain” is addled with alcohol
I cant see a legitimate insult anywhere. Lots of stupid shit, but anytime you talk with a wacko repub., you’ll get that.
I must have got his hopes up, by mentioning buchanan’s name.
He almost felt like he belonged.
How about…
Camouflaged Closet Conservative Cluck-a-doodle Dipsy Duuudle is ridiculously easy to harass/mock/belittle/insult
as a new name?
Is that what you call it?
I’ll still be able to use the same name tomorrow.
LOL!
Dumbass!
hey, dig-
I called my “friend” out about his BS that i commented on eairlier…seems hes full of BS. as it turns out,he did get canned for not working up to par…so my sincere apoligies for implying that there is waste at the ground level and i can prove it. I’m wrong, my source was shit.
Don, err, Dubyasux @ 62
Sorry to be away so long. We’ve been on vacation, you know. Anyway, I don’t know if I am liberal or conservative. I just try to think about issues without being influenced by talking heads. And, I think we should be fair and kind to people, especially those less fortunate than us. Does that make me a liberal? If so, then ours must be a liberal household (using a proportional analysis by mass or volume). How’s that for irony?
As far as Mr. C.’s obsession with male genitalia: I must apologize to Goldy and all of his readers. Mr. C. really does have some serious insecurity in that department. If only he could turn all that web anger into passion—that, and some prosthetics—would make me a very happy woman.
Hugs and kisses!
And that explains why you spent 6 days trying to ridicule don, by calling gwdummy a cocksucker!
hahaha
Damage d
NO SHIT! funny
I wasn’t trying to be an ass, but what i told you, has been my experience on those type situations.
Thanks for telling me.
Ahh Dipsy… I tried to tell you that glue you’re sniffing causes short term memory loss.
As I already pointed out you Doodly, the only way you could insult me is to call me a ….ick, blech, ptooey…. liberal (shudder).
But as we both know…
you can’t use that particular insult.
Smmoochy smooches Doodly! – Have fun at school tomorrow and remember: don’t run with scissors in your hand, I before E except after C, and do NOT potty in your pants – you’re almost a big Dipsy now.
gwdummyisacocksucker@all,
SEE ALL PREVIOUS INSULTS:
Welcome back Mrs. C! Too bad you had to drag your husband with you, they told me he was in ‘heaven’ in the Bay Area. LMAO. You really must be careful with his male sexual organ complex. You might be right, with hormones and surgery he might be a decent lady for the other felons once the law catches up to him and his money laundering for his boss. Cheers
Petshit @ 78
Too long. People will fall asleep before they finish reading it.
Especially your righty friends, whose attention span is only 1 1/3 seconds.
Diggin @ 79
It’ll take until tomorrow to finish reading it. zzzzzzzz z z z z z z
Mrs. C @ 81
Do you two take separate vacations, or does Mr. C have a dummy that keeps typing while he’s away? (Actually, he’s pretty much a dummy himself.) I have a suggestion, why don’t you “deprive” him for a while, he’s more fun when he’s cranky.
Diggin @ 82
God they’re stupid, aren’t they. Apparently the fastest sperm isn’t always the smartest one.
Gee Don–
I think Goldy needs to institute a breathalyzer test for you to blow into before you post. Diggindude too. You 2 “potty-mouths” really set arecord last night.
As for you Mrs. C–
I heard and felt you roll out of bed last night. So did the whole damn neighborhood when you stepped on our dog and killed him. He was a great Rottweiler! Now…he is a pancake thanks to you fatass. Adolph sure let out a yelp before going to doggy heaven. I was actually glad you flopped out of bed. Some of your horrible bodyodor (Mrs. C has the rare combination of both bad hygiene AND bad lowgiene) went with you. What really pissed me off was that you came back!
Gee Goldy,
sorry I missed you last night. I went to hear Mr. Logan try and defend himself against the fine citizens of Shoreline about the Nov. Election.
during the Bitch and Yell session, the poor dude was overmatched. I did not speak during the event…others said what I felt and they did a little more forcefully than I would have. I actually felt sorry for the guy. Dean Logan appears to be a really nice guy. however, as Don has pointed out he may not be the best manager.
the only thing he offered as defense is stuff you’ve heard in the press. No new smoking guns. however, he did say that ultimately he is responsible for the mistakes that were made. Ultimately, this means that he and he alone should be on administrative leave. (or terminated)
Mr. Cynical @ 92
Your comments about the lovely and charming Mrs. C. would have been hilarious if you had quit after the first three sentences. The rest of it ruined the effect. You need to hire an editor.
reggie @ 93
Yeah, I did post that KC Elections needs a good head-cracker and Logan is too nice a guy for that role. I’ve met Dean and like him as a person, but I don’t think he has what it takes to supervise all those temporary workers and poll volunteers, or keep things from getting out of control. This job calls for a General Patton personality who won’t mince words or hesitate to fire people.
reg @ 93 and Duby @ 95
The whole thing reminds me of an analogy; If the dirver is out of control, do you scrap the car? But in this case, I might have to agree…theres more change required than getting a hard case running the show. Too bad, seems like the guy could have been a good manager, maybe Bush could take lessons from him…lessions on how to admit utlimate responsibility for grevious errors under him.
Donsux–@94
In case you haven’t noticed, I could give a ratsass if what I post “ruins” it for you. In fact, I take delight if you are offended.
Mr Cyn @ 97
exactly.
like anything they say offends us.
we laugh at them because they get so pissy(feminine).
My God… all I did was post a little notice of a Drinking Liberally event, and it sparks a hundred-comment flame war? Don’t you guys have anything better to do?
Goldy–
Now it’s officially 100.
When you posted, it was only 99.
Only 1% off Goldy.
Did you and Dean “Weird Al Yankovic lookalike” Logan take math on the same remote planet?
Oh, I forgot, you LEFTISTS believe close is good enough (if you win).
Don, cynical’sout can surely afford an editor, with all his scamming from and for the BIAW.
Dean Logan should resign for his own health (This can’t be fun for him), and he could then just show up with Goldy at “Drinkinggggg Liberallllllly” and he can suck up a few brewsssss, talk with a more friendlyyyyyy gang, and watch the fireworks from a different perspective. Sometimes the old song “Take this Job and Shove it” is the Right Choice! The Outside looking in is a lot more friendly than the Inside Looking out! Ha Ha! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
gs–
That was Johnny Paycheck’s song–
He was a real drug and alcohol abuser but a hell of a singer too.
I wonder what forms of self-abuse Logan is indulging in while waiting for the hammering of his life..errr, I mean the depositions?
goldy @ 99
because you are so gifted I guess.
@ 99
look at it this way…can (u)SP do that? Trolls or no…
DD @ 96
Logan was recruited from the SOS’s office because of his knowledge of election laws and procedures. I don’t know what his management experience is. He handled media interviews well, and kept his cool while being savaged by Vance and the other lying Republicans. But he knew going in that he was inheriting a dysfunctional department, and in retrospect, he failed to clean it out and rebuild it. So he doesn’t look like a strong or proactive manager to me.
Cynical @ 97
It didn’t offend me; I was just offering some editorial advice, as it’s obvious you need help. You do want to appear on Jay Leno someday, don’t you?
chardonnay @ 98
I have to take your word for it because you know far more about pissy (feminine) than I do. I know my wife gets pissy (feminine) but I have no idea why. It seems to be a hormones thing.
Goldy @ 99
No and neither do they. I decided to skip this week in case they showed up with guns.
Cynical @ 100
This is your 8th post in this thread, Cyn. How many times did you vote in the election? Did you give Rossi 8% of his votes?
jpgee @ 101
Repubs always want everything for free.
GS @ 102
There’s wisdom in what you say, but you’re too stupid to realize it. You just thought you were being humorous.
Goldy @ 99 (again)
Ya gotta hand it to these trolls Goldy, they’re gluttons for punishment and keep coming back for more. They’re probably doing whips and chains, too (except Chards — I can tell she’s not getting anything).
I don’t see Ringhofer here anymore. Did he run away after finding out what this blog is like?
Don–
You posted 9 times in a row.
You talking to yourself pal?
Oh and you posted 35 times on this thread Don.
Are you hear to pump up Goldy’s stats?
Maybe you are Goldy?
Desperation?
don @ 108
your wife gets pissy? LOL I wonder why, geez,we know you are a mean drunk, you are hungover a couple times a week & She’s probably sick and tired of cleaning up your vomit and washing your urine saturated pants. I’m tellin ya, she needs to hook up with George Felos. Once she gets you in a hospice… I think she is going to call 911 one of these nights, DNR.
Cynical @ 115
It’s very simple, Cyn. When I log online, I read the thread in numerical sequence (for you Republicans, that means 1 through whatever # it’s currently at) and respond to the ones I feel like responding to. Hence, my posts tend to bunch together. But I wouldn’t expect someone of your intellect to figure that out, Cyn. I still want to know how your washing machine works.
chards @ 116
I’ll have to arrange for you to meet Mrs. Dubyasux sometime. She HATES Republicans. I mean REALLY hates ’em. I’m cute and cuddly compared to her. I don’t think it’s hormones, I think it’s just that Dubya sucks, his policies suck, and the rest of you suck, too.
hey don, are you saying you are more feminine tha your wife? that is too funny.
Not the washing machine line again?
r is w – I would welcome your views since I’m hard pressed to imagine what they are. I also doubt you know enough about the sorted history of anti-communism in America to shed much light.
Thank you, in spite of the flippant tone. Would I be correct to assume you mean sordid vice sorted history? Either could be the case. The modifier largely helps soften your precept only marginally.
In a condensed version of my take on communism, Soviet-style, I will draw from our founding documents (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights). Our system allows freedom for the individual to associate, to practice religion or not, to live where one wishes. Our economic model is a predominantly Darwinian system (though with the new Bankruptcy law, I am not so sure that applies as it once did, more on this if you want to discuss). The citizen does not exist solely at the discretion of the state under rigid rules dictated by the Politburo.
The Soviet system was not too interested in individual rights. Indeed, this was excruciatingly evident under Stalin and his Great Purge. As we in the US are well aware, we had our own version of this, the Red Scare. Which would one have been more likely to live through?
The end of WWII saw our victory over fascism. The conquest saw the USSR absorb some 20 nations in the eastern half of Europe and Asia. Little wonder why there would be a Red Scare in this country.
RDC notes the USSR was ripe for collapse without the efforts of the US under Reagan. I say maybe, but with him and the action Congress permitted, I would say we hastened the collapse. The USSR helped us immeasurably with their Afgan campaign.
The USSR had this interesting, closed system of economics. What about today’s communism? China, the nation with the largest population on Earth (pop: 1,300,000,000, est. 2004), is the United States’ largest trading partner. The regime limits speech, association, religion, where you live, how large your family is, etc. Survival of the model they follow has opened the economy, and the repression is still there for the citizen.
So, to the crux of the matter: Is there truth to what you say? Yes. It is prudent for a nation to safeguard its citizenry and preserve the rule of law from possible forms of attack. Where we depart is over just how prudent we were during a period of uncertainty. If I failed to offer my views to your satisfaction, or I shed little light on the matter, I apologize.
For all of my criticism of our government, I can’t think of another form I would prefer.
Some clarification and errata:
I did not mean to sound confrontational, yet I felt I was left with no choice based on the wording.
The USSR absorbed 10 nations, vice 20, at the end of WWII.
Survival of the model they follow has opened the economy, and yet the repression is still there for the citizen.
Marks…A couple of minor critiques, limited by time. First, the link on Red Scare incorrectly IMO limits the initial scare to 1917-1920. Really, it continuted well into the 1930s, was interrupted by WWII when the commies were our friends, and then re-invigorated after. Second, there isn’t much about Stalin’s ways that are defensible, but imagine yourself as the leader of a country which had borne the biggest (by far) brunt of the war against the nazis, had suffered immeasurably in the process (some estimates are 20 million dead), had been invaded by a European power twice on a massive scale, and found itself in control of a ready-made buffer of small countries along its European border. What would you do? If it were me, I’d try to keep control of that buffer. The Chinese are another subject altogether and can be discussed later (but watch out, long ago I majored in history with a concentration in east Asia). For the moment, let’s just say that there were very good reasons why the Chinese followed Mao and dumped the Kuomintang (sp). Third, Canada is our leading trading partner. China is second, and likely will overtake Canada in a few years. The problem is that the trade with China is very one-sided, unlike the Canadian trade.
More later, but for now John Tierney, Safire’s replacement at NYT, has a very worthwhile column in today’s paper. It is not so much the subject, but the point he makes. I think Tierney leans right, but I’m not sure yet. The point he makes I think applies to the current discussion, perhaps cutting both ways.
Marks –
Found your follow up. It looks intersting. I’m on my way out of town. Will respond Sunday or Monday. Good argument in terms of why communism would not be a good choice of government. I’m sure we could go on to talk about the problems with a planned economy as well, but the social control is most relevant I agree.
More later…
RDC,
On the link, if you scroll down, the Second Red Scare is analyzed.
If you majored in History with an emphasis on east Asia, that sounds more like I am in for schooling than debate… ;)
Back again, but soon off to the hardware. In my mundane existence, toilets break and my wife, bless her heart, is useless with tools, or pretends to be.
The point I was trying to make about US foreign policy in the Cold War period is that our leaders, I believe knowingly, committed many sins in the name of fighting the Soviet-Chinese menace (the Chinese were never a menace in the way the Soviets were, but that’s another story), especially in South America, which were in truth little more than protecting the interests of American corporations and investors, to the detriment of most of the people in the places where we meddled. (This may set a record for the longest sentence ever typed in one of Goldy’s threads).
You can see how successful the red scare was in inculcating the notion that communism is something evil in itself by rereading our comments. No one refers to the US as having a capitalist government, but references to the communist government of China, Cuba, etc., are common. Communism and capitalism are different ways of organizing economic activity. The Soviet Union had a totalitarian government, as did Saddam. But economic activity in the two states was organized differently. Some have argued that no one really knows if communism as an economic system works or not, because it has never really been tried. We’ve tried capitalism, and know that that doesn’t work very well. What we have in America, or at least what we had in America for much of the latter half of the last century, worked quite well, IMO, with its overall mix of private enterprise and state intervention. Its major flaw was the corrupting influence of money on political decisions, distorting sometimes the benefits of state intervention.
Hmm, I guess sprinkling Orwell over the topic may not be good enough, but then, Orwell was also looking at communism from the Soviet prism. Animal Farm was a logical way to see the Soviet model. It is also a logical extension (however mistaken it may be) to view the current labor union model here and in Europe in the same light. Communism has not been tried on a large scale in its true form, as I recall from a debate I was part of once – I lost that debate in grand fashion.
On capitalism, I am all for a free market limited by law. Granting large corporations a free pass spells disaster. They are in the business of making money, and not above fabricating it, as Enron and WorldCom have taught us. I am also reminded of Union-Carbide in India. I am not much of a fan regarding the environmentalist movement, but I do think it is a good idea to make sure the companies that use harmful chemicals and/or volatile manufacturing processes comply with state and federal hazmat handling and dumping procedures. If a company violates environmental regulations, they should be held accountable via fines and/or cleanup costs. That includes criminal charges for those responsible.
Leading me to a problem area. Example: Dallas County has proven itself to be in violation of environmental dumping regulations. If they were to be fined by the Feds, that is County tax money going bye-bye, and property taxes going sky-high to make up for it. I would be much more in favor of firing the responsible individuals (and trying them on criminal charges, as appropriate) and conducting the clean up. Unfortunately, I think that could violate an equal protection clause that I once heard was contained in the Bill of Rights.
I am still interested in your post-cold war assessment. On Tierney, I am inclined to believe the theory, but I would be interested to know which statistics were used to arrive at that conclusion. I won’t run out and buy the book, as I have other reading priorities. I don’t get enough time to read books these days, as I am constantly reading news and opinion (and posting here). Which is why I sympathize with Goldy on his newest post.
Like yours, my wife, bless her heart, has a similar affliction/avoidance. I compensated by screwing up dinner on those rare occasions when she used to let me make it. My kitchen banishment started years ago as a result…
Marks…I am not avoiding the foreign policy question. Well, yes, I am avoiding the foreign policy question. But I have been thinking about it, and will respond eventually.
A few notes: I commend to you the short piece by Verlyn Klinkenborg in today’s NYT. It is on the editorial page. The quote from Samuel Johnson alone is worth the effort to find the editorial. Otherwise, Frank Rich is still bashing those good Christians Tom Delay and Ralph Reed, David Brooks is still convinced that conservatives are saving America, and, regretably, Kristoff is still lamenting the world’s inaction in Darfur.
Why am I not surprised that Dallas County is illegally dumping whatever they’re dumping? My apologies if you like the place, but my few trips to Dallas were almost enough to convince me that Hell really does exist. Way too flat, way too hot, and way too few trees. Anyway, a heavy fine is likely the right remedy. Nothing will get the electorate so engaged in finding out who the bad guys are and cleaning house in county government that a rise in property taxes. Could the illegal dumping possible be the outfall (or offal) from local corruption?
Not a fan of the environmental movement? How can that be so? How can you have lived so long in this bountiful and beautiful land and not be a fan of the environmental movement? How can you have children who themselves may have children and not be a fan of the environmental movement? How can you be aware of illegal dumping and mishandling of hazardous waste and the always lurking readiness of the greedy to pollute for profit and not be a fan of the environmental movement? How can you have lived in lands without strong environmental lobbies and not be a fan of the environmental movement? How can these things be so?
Obviously, I am a BIG fan of the environmental movement, mainly because I know what people will do to trash the land, air, waters, and sea if there is no strong restraints put upon them. Not just business people, either. The environmental movement has created a powerful countervailing power against would be polluters, and has with considerable success made the public aware of the dangers of laissez-faire capitalism. Doesn’t it bother you at all that mercury content makes fish caught in the Adirondacks and the Catskills, to name only a couple of areas, a danger to eat?
Perhaps it is the extremists who have jaundiced your view. People who spike trees and burn houses are not environmentalists; they’re criminals.
Regarding John Tierney’s column, I wasn’t as interested in his story as the point he made in his last paragraph; i.e., be wary of accepting conventional wisdom. However, to give myself some needed praise (I’m not that good at fixing plumbing problems), I have long argued that Giuliani was getting way too much credit for the reduction in NYC crime rates, and cited demographic data as a better place to look. Fewer young males correlates with less crime; more young males correlates with more.
I don’t believe communism would work well on a large scale. Some form of socialism might; perhaps something along the lines of the American model pre-GWB but with somewhat greater public investment paid for by somewhat higher taxes on the wealthy, and public ownership of some sectors of the economy…electric utilities, for example. I think we’ve lost our way recently, but the American model in the mid to late 20th century worked reasonably well, even though tilted a little too much towards consumption and in favor of the have’s versus the have-nots.
I am no longer an expert on matters East Asian. As with so many things, I’ve gone from being an expert when young to being now only marginally knowledgable. Is this due to the death of brain cells, or to the beginning of wisdom? Probably the former.
Well, Goldy’s holding another one. It must be the length of certain responses that triggers these holds.
There are some words you may want to stay away from. I am not sure what they are, but when your post gets approved, I’ll try to discern what word or combination might have held it up.
I read Brooks today, and like the Tierney article, I would like to see the data and not just an interpretation. I would not be surprised if a correlation could be drawn between legalized abortion three decades ago and Brooks’ topic.
I have yet to read Frank Rich, though the title alone may have turned me off. Getting tired of Delay. I’m sure it is humorous.
It may have been a series of sentences with question marks, because I don’t believe it was exceptionally long. Did you read the Klinkenborg editorial? It’s very short, but as some long dead guy said, brevity is the soul of wit. The toilet is fixed, but now I’m behind in my study of espanol.
Fear of AIDS and venereal diseases may have as much to do with reduced sexual activity among teenagers as any moral reservations. The before statistics that Brooks cited would have been about right for my peers from a long ago time. I’m also always a little skeptical of polls where the questions are about personal behavior.
Damn!!! I just tried to post a short response and it too has been shanghaied.
Well, the posts are still somewhere in the ether. The only thing they had in common that I recall was the word Klinkenborg. Let’s see what happens when I push the button.
The Lost Posts finally appear! See 127 and 130. Geez. And I gave Goldy 10 bucks on his birthday. Maybe he felt insulted by the amount.
This morning’s NYT has this delicious quote. In a story about Ralph Reed’s image problem because of his lobbying links to gambling, Pat Robertson (his former employer) is critical of his boy Ralph, and is quoted in the article as saying “You know that song about the Rhinestone Cowboy? ‘There’s been a load of compromising, on the road to my horizon”, Mr Robertson said. “The Bible says you can’t serve God and Mammon.” Of course, MR. Robertson can speak as an expert on this.
Brent Staples has a good editorial as well on No Child Left Behind.
Goldy can move very quickly. This train may be a while before it leaves the station, but when it does, I’m going to look for a good book to read.
I think your first one was held due to soc. alism. Think E.D meds and discard the first two and last letters.
I read Staples (a good column), but not the other. I also missed Klinkenborg, but will look again. After reading Rich, I realize he is trying to evoke the H word (hypocrite). Successfully, I might add.
Perhaps it is the extremists who have jaundiced your view. People who spike trees and burn houses are not environmentalists; they’re criminals.
More on this later when I get a chance. Immediate response is that I do not consider them environmentalists either.
I am well prepared for when the train departs.
On environmentalism, I think it is great to have national parks, clean water, good air quality and all the other wonderful things associated with them. I also respect those who hold political views that do not fit with my own. I hold even greater respect for those who can adapt their views when they receive new information, or are shown a new way of thinking via empirical evidence in concert with applied reason. Absent such qualities, their views are simply sclerotic advocacy unbound by reason. Saying all of that boils down to what I think the environmental movement has become: Stuck in time, stuck in thought, and lacking many of the mechanisms for reasoned thinking. Similar to my views on Unions. Remember, my uncle lives in Berkeley, so I must be an expert on environmentalists… ;)
To me, the movement has become a religion for zealots on the really wacky extreme, but the “mainstream” movement fostered it, much like Christianity fostered Nichols and his clinic bombings. I am pointing this out to show that I view environmentalism, the leadership, much the same as Frank Rich views religious right politicians: hypocrisy in action.
I hate to say it, because I have a few lawyers in my family, but the clerics of this religion are lawyers. Yes, they have scientists, and I hope the scientists don’t always bend to the will of the lawyers and fabricate findings. Lawyers will massage the data anyway, so I will leave the scientists alone.
I am all for the preservation of human life, including quality of life. The lawyers who advocate for the preservation of the American Gnatcatcher habitat or the Iclideous Slug breeding ground perform a disservice to evolution when they argue such must be protected at all cost. Not that I like strip malls at every corner, but when so many new construction projects are held up for years as a cost/benefit analysis is performed and lawyers file motion after motion to keep a project buried, I begin to wonder what the motive really is.
A final thought. I sold my beloved Mustang GT earlier this year and bought a light SUV. The immediate benefit was more room for hauling (not that I haul much, but now I fit more coworkers into it going to lunch). As the cost of gas has skyrocketed, another benefit manifested: I used to get 17 mpg average, while now I get 24. Point? None, really. I just think it is funny that I did not need anyone to suggest I get a vehicle that uses less gas.
BTW – Don’t tell anyone, especially my R compadres since it could result in revocation of my membership faster than support for government funded elections, but I have contributed to Goldy’s beer fund. When he makes a point that strikes me as either exceptionally hilarious or particularly poignant, I reach for my wallet to buy him a beer (actually a six-pack, since drinking one beer makes me want another).
Apostacy! Giving money to Goldy. If you don’t agree with everything I write from here on, I will rat on you to Cynical and chardonney. We may be the major contributors, considering the meagre total the site displays. I’ve sent $20 since I began using this blog (it’s the only one I make time for). I’m sure there must be a not insignificant cost besides labor in running HA. Pity more of the posters don’t pitch in.
John Tierney in the NYT is definitely a conservative. I’m not recommending today’s column as anything special, but if you do read it, keep in mind that the reason Amtrak was created was because private railroads could not operate passenger service at a profit. I’m not sure if you are old enough to recall the New York Central or Pennsylvanis RRs, but they are examples that show private enterprise doesn’t always do things well. Otherwise, I don’t know enough about the situation to take exception to his column.
Where to begin? First, a compliment on a nicely worded post. I was particularly impressed with this…I hold even greater respect for those who can adapt their views when they are shown new information, or are shown a new way of thinking via empirical evidence in concert with applied reason..Indeed. I would add, except when applied selectively
The refutation of your premise is contained in your first sentence. Rs (not all, but a majority) never bother to ask the but for question. But for the environmental movement, where would we be? Especially where would we be with an administration and a congress like we now have? God will not mind the store; He never has. People will pollute if they can get away with it; they always have. Your assessment that the EM is moribund, stuck in time, irrelevant is exactly what those hostile to any value except profit want people to think about those in opposition. All “movements” mature and develop little fiefdoms of specialization. Specialization implies narrow vision (check out some of the corridors of the AEI or the Heritage Foundation). But it is this very narrowness of vision and specialization that enables great expertise to develop. Many battles over the environment are won and lost in court houses. Just the knowledge that it will likely be taken to court can prevent a company or other entity from causing harm to whatever environment is in question.
You make a error, I think, in condemning the mainstream EM for fostering extremist zealots, and make the comparison to Christianity fostering wackos like Nichols (I think you meant to say Rudolph; I’m not sure that Nichols qualifies, not that he is not a wacko). However, you don’t then take the next step, as you did with EM, and conclude mainstream Christianity is not worth being a fan of. Why not? Do you think enviromentalism itself is a bad thing?
Interesting that you mention lawyers as being the clerics of the EM religion. There are some fundamentalist Christians who believe that environmentalism is an evil, pagan New Age religion, forecast, of course, by biblical prophecy.
Speaking of hypocrisy, it was interesting how many Rs suddenly because enviros when the Brightwater sewage treatment plant was proposed. I guess matters look different when it’s your own back yard in danger of being sullied. My view is that the entire planet is our own backyard. And I don’t mind a bit if yet another mall is held in abeyance because its construction threatens the extinction of a species. Naturally occuring extinction is a part of evolution, certainly. I suppose one could argue that when it is caused by human activity it is just as natural as being caused by a meteor hitting the earth. This evolution argument probably wouldn’t sit well, though, with a goodly segment of the anti-environmentalist lobby.
Damn, I wish there was a preview feature here. I’m sure my argument is incomplete, but on to other things. The but for question is one that also applies to labor unions, affirmative action, social security, consumer protection, and all the other efforts to provide for the general welfare that Rs have consistently opposed over the years. Leadership does sometimes get stale, but stale leadership doesn’t invalidate the underlying justification for these kinds of movements. On EM, I am encouraged by the debate the Shellenberger and Nordhaus essay, The Death of Environmentalism, has fostered. Unfortunately, it came out at a time when it plays right into the hands of those who have priorities other than National Parks, clean water, good air quality and all the other wonderful things associated with them.
I hope that your Mustang GT found an owner who will appreciate it, and not cast it aside for something with a younger, more commodious body when his of her fickleness shows itself.
RDC,
What book was it?
Marks –
I was waylaid. Finally I have a moment to respond.
You offered a good summary of why Soviet totalitarianism is no picnic. Thank for clarifying your position. I think maybe my original point wasn’t made clearly enough. I don’t favor communism.
What I originally said was, “Anti-communism in America has been a smoke screen allowing politicians and business leaders to motivate the citizenry with fear and hatred. I’m not trying to say communism is the answer (bold added).” I was not arguing in favor of communism. I was saying redbaiting, the Red Scares and anti-communism have been public fears hyped and played upon by our “leaders.”
Who but Richard Nixon could have gone to China, since any Demo would have been vilified and hounded out of office by the Republicans? How about those HUAC “trials”? Did they protect us? No, they trampled on freedoms of individual Americans. They put many innocent people in jail or had them blacklisted so they couldn’t find work. And that served to teach anyone else that any associations they made that were too far to the left could mean loss of work or jail time. And they were based on Congress trampling on our freedom of association guaranteed under the Constitution. Whom did that serve? Unscrupulous politicians like McCarthy and Nixon (he was a prosecutor for HUAC when he was a jr. Congressman).
Here’s another example. After WWI, a well-organized union of steel workers struck (can’t remember where), demanding better wages and working conditions (this was before there were rules regarding how many hours you could be forced to work without a break and getting more than Sunday off, and no vacation or sick leave – you know, the good old days). The leaders of the National Association of Manufacturers used propaganda techniques developed by the Wilson administration during WWI to run a campaign painting the strike leaders as communists. Prior to the campaign, the general public overwhelmingly supported the strikers. Afterward, the majority of people were no longer sympathetic. They broke the strike and the strikers got nothing.
I could go on, but I think that makes the point. I think most (if not all) of the periods of anti-communism in America were manufactured for the benefit of a few rather than in response to actual danger.
Another side of this would be to show there was any real danger of communism getting a hold in America. How likely was that? Couldn’t we have done better by our workers or anyone who was likely to be sympathetic? Where were the actual communist infiltrators to be afraid of? There was nothing to warrant the hysteria that was allowed to develop and I would argue was fostered.
Also, weren’t there more intelligent ways our leaders could have handled the fear? If the Roosevelt administration and the congress were able to convince people Stalin was our buddy, why couldn’t they have quelled public fears in other periods when they got out of hand? The reasonable explanation would seem to be the red scares served a useful purpose.
In summary, I think historians will look back on twentieth century America and see that the people’s fear of communism was engendered and used to enpower some leaders and to help justify America’s foreign policies to the American public. That last point getting back to the original point we were discussing: was there any reason for the US to kill more than 2 million people in Southeast Asia? In other words, was Vietnam really necessary?
I’ve rambled on enough. I realize I’ve made some stark accusations without citing the sort of sources you did. I’m open to refining this if you like.
By the way, I studied some Russian/Soviet history in college. I think RDC did an admirable job of portraying the Russians fears of the west. After all, we did invade Russia after WWI when they were vulnerable. And once we saw the Bolsheviks had control of Russia, the US worked hard to isolate them. They wanted more access to certain raw materials we weren’t letting them at. And according to Churchill in his memoirs, Roosevelt agreed the Soviets would have the Balkins and Eastern Europe following the war. They signed a pact at Yalta. There is so much we are not told.
As I recall Bush and Cheney have gone back and forth on this issue. They’ve made public statements that Al Quida and Saddam were linked and even that Saddam had something to do with 9/11. They’ve retracted those same statements admitting there was no connection. Then they’ve each turned around and said the opposite again.
I think from all I’ve read, it is clear the admin trumped it up, as they did with the statements they made about Iraq having a re-constitued nuclear program. Bush knew that was a lie, yet he used it in his State of the Union speech only weeks before we invaded. At that point the lie hadn’t been uncovered in the mainstream press, though Democracy Now had uncovered it months before.
But lies from this administration are grounds for promotion. Here’s a great piece of video. It shows Rumsfeld, caught in an out and out lie on camera and he’s confronted. I look forward to hearing why those of you on the right think it isn’t real.
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