1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I know how to start a riot at the Republican convention — roll a half dollar down the aisle!

  2. 3

    busdrivermike spews:

    Metro has projected an $85 million dollar deficit, due to projected declining tax receipts. That is the monetary equivalent of losing all the bus service out of Central Base.

    Wouldn’t it be better to fully fund existing transit services, instead of sweeping the problem under the rug until after the election? The vain hope of putting the additional strain of higher taxes on voters when the recession is just starting to show up in King County will just motivate more republicans into the voting booth.

    Is that a good thing for Christine Gregoire or Senator Obama? Personally, I would rather run the slate for the Democrats in November. How does defending higher taxes on the ballot box this November help that objective?

    There seems no shortage of denial of reality in the White House, or at Sound Transit.

  3. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Raise fares to cover more of the costs — that’ll solve the problem. Everyone else is paying more for fuel, so why should bus riders be exempt? If some of the riders get mad their alternative is to pay me $3.90 a gallon for my gas.

  4. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I suppose “Troll” thinks Democrats are warmongers because a Democratic Congress declared war on Japan after they bombed us. If he had been around in 1941, he probably would have been promoting German pacifism.

  5. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hearts And Minds Dep’t, Case # 08-14699324-1-A

    I see in the papers that the incompetent Bushevik regime killed 90 civilians, mostly children, in Afghanistan last week in yet another botched airstrike.

  6. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Corporate Socialism Dep’t, Case # 08-78842-3-0

    I see in the papers that the private, for-profit, railroad industry wants taxpayers to pay for expanding rail capacity.

  7. 8

    busdrivermike spews:


    Only 12% of the revenue for Metro comes through the fare box. Most of it comes from 1% sales tax that goes, supposedly, to transit. The decline in tax receipts, combined with rising fuel costs, have created this “double whammy” for the transit budget.

    Anybody ready for a $3 fare increase to $4.75 a ride? That is the severity of this budget deficit. Do you think some people would give up transit at a 5 dollar fare, and go back to their automobile?

    The point is, that pinning ST2 on sales tax receipts that are decreasing, at a time when people are starting to feel an economic crimp, at the same time we cannot fully fund present transit services, is not good politics. Then, attaching Obama to ST2 in a state he must have to win the White House, during a time of a state gubernatorial election that will be close, will just motivate more Republicans to vote.

    So please, just say no to linking Obama to controversial ballot initiatives. In this state, we do not have the luxury of motivating conservatives to vote.

  8. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @8 You can’t drive a car to work for $4.75. At that price, a bus ride is still a bargain. And express buses in HOV lanes will continue to get downtown much faster than SOV drivers stuck in rush-hour traffic jams. In fact, many commuters don’t have an option to drive under any circumstances, because the downtown employment core simply doesn’t have enough parking for that many cars.

  9. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    P.S., I don’t think ST2 should be on the November ballot or any other ballot. This flawed plan was defeated last year, and we shouldn’t be forced to keep voting on it until we finally say “yes.” Instead of offering a better mass transit plan, Sound Transit is resorting to the same abusive tactics used by telemarketers who keep calling incessantly until you agree to buy their product. ST has done nothing to reduce costs or get better value for taxpayers’ dollars; all they’ve done is tie a different ribbon around the same package voters rejected in 2007. But if it is on the ballot, I will vote “no” again — and keep on voting “no” as many times as I must to help this community get a rational and reasonably priced mass transit system, even if I have to wait until Hell freezes over to get something I can vote for out of our state’s most recalcitrant bureaucracy.

  10. 11

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Roger Rabbit said:

    “I know how to start a riot at the Republican convention — roll a half dollar down the aisle!”

    That old joke has been used to insult a lot of ethnic groups, too. Nothing like a good, classic, multi-tasker insulter!

  11. 12

    rhp6033 spews:

    RR @ 9: I’ve pegged my current commute cost (driving) at $12.00 per day. But I’m not prepared to spend 2-1/2 hours from door-to-door each way, with three transfers (and paying an additional fare with the second transfer). So until Sound Transit puts a light rail system in place between Everett and Bellevue, I’ll have to stick to my car, even though I’d really rather have the other option available to me.

    (Next week I will be in Japan – JL train lines & monorail, will all get me anywhere I want to go with trains running exactly on time and the fares being pretty reasonable.) It’s a few blocks from the transit stations to/from my destination, but the walk will do me good. Unfortunately, it’ll still be pretty hot and humid there).

  12. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @11 My post @1 has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity, and only an idiot like you would read that into it. It speaks to one subject, and only one subject: Republican greed and selfishness. Thanks for asking; I appreciate having this opportunity to clarify that for you.

  13. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Corporate Socialism Dep’t, Case # 08-94433-2-2

    I see that The Economist, a conservative British weekly newsmagazine that reliably puffs for John McSame — and, like the rest of the rightwing-controlled media, studiously avoids any discussion of bread-and-butter issues like unemployment, falling wages, inflation, health care, etc. — is advocating that the federal government nationalize the debts of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae now that private enterprise has looted these entities … and then dismantle them so there’s no possibility of socialized mortgages benefitting actual citizens in the future. So typical of the bandit-capitalist press. Why don’t they mind their own business and worry about England’s economy instead of ours?

  14. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Economist is co-owned by the British media conglomerate Pearson PLC and the super-rich Rothschild banking family.

  15. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @12 You’ll wait a long time for light rail to Everett. Under ST2, you’ll start paying for it now but won’t get anything to ride on for many years to come.

  16. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Light rail as currently proposed by Sound Transit makes no sense. What ST is peddling to voters is a system that costs 6 to 10 times as much as the average U.S. city pays for light rail, and is grossly underfunded. This is another fiasco waiting to implode. There is no way you can build an $11 billion system by collecting $69 a year from 1.2 million households for 20 years ($69 x 1.2M x 20 = $1.65 billion).

  17. 19

    Dave spews:

    @15 Roger Rabbit: I’d argue that The Economist is pro-free market, which by definition is anti-McCain and anti-“Republican”–who are very firmly in favor of big-government socialist welfare programs for large corporations. Just because the government hand-out goes for Gulfstream jet maintenance doesn’t mean it isn’t socialism.

    Read that editorial again: The Economist decries the US government for having nationalized the debt while leaving the profit private. Here’s an excerpt:

    In the past, we have argued for privatising Fannie and Freddie completely. But now that the guarantee is explicit, Mr Paulson should seek to secure the gains for taxpayers and treat Fannie and Freddie like one of their own mortgages, by nationalising them, breaking them up and selling them on. That would almost double the public debt—but only in book-keeping terms. The liability is already implicit (as at Northern Rock), and, unlike Treasuries, it is ultimately backed by housing as collateral.

    It’s always a good idea to have an outside perspective. The propaganda in this country has reached feverish highs lately.

  18. 20

    SeattleJew spews:

    @15 Rabbit

    The Economist is anything BUT Conservative. It is what Europeans call “liberal” .. a political persuasion that combines what Americans call social equality with a belief that regulation of the market should be restricted to averting monopolism.

    Equating the Economist with the bizzar collection of ideologies represented by the Reprican Party is ludicrous .. regardless of whether the Rotschilds are or are not investors.

  19. 21

    Vernon spews:

    Gotta love how busdrivermike blames Sound Transit for Metro’s screwed up revenue forecasting, and for waaaaayyyyyy over-selling RapidRide.

    Clueless ideologues like busdrivermike and Roger Rabbit lap up distortions and lies – and then repeat them – because that’s all they know.

    Watch for plenty of that crap going down at the GOP convention next week.

  20. 22

    SeattleJew spews:

    Rabbit on Rails

    It seems to me there are very different issues in your mashup.

    1. Transit riders should pay the real costs of transit and (I assume) so should gas hog drivers.

    2. Rail is inherently more efficient than gas hoggery and , therefore market forces should drive its success.

    3. ST2 is incompetently written.

    I took these three halves and found I could not combine them into one whole, can you?

    It seems to me that a large part of the problem is that no one has a good way of estimating real costs of capital intensive social projects. Arguably Japan’s wonderful rail system adds a lot to her productivity and that somehow justfies the low fares. If that is true, one assumes that the businesses receiving this benefit are paying the cost?

  21. 23

    Steve spews:

    Fair weather for Obama tonight. Too bad about the hurricane that will slam the Gulf next week, reminding America of the Republican’s second largest disasterous homeland failure and, sadly, disrupting the news cycle during their convention. The first and largest Republican disasterous failure, of course, was when, in 2001, they utterly failed to respond to the threat of Al Quada attacking America here at home. We all saw what came of that. Regarding the weather, it must really suck for Republicans to realize that even God is against them now. Geez, I can’t help but wonder if the Rev. Pat Robertson will connect the dots and grasp the meaning behind God’s wrath.

  22. 24

    Dave spews:

    @23 Steve: That just underscores the importance of precision in evil-praying (c.f. )

    It’s really backfired on them, given that the long-range forecast last week was predicting scattered T-storms in Denver today. Not only that, but the other day I noticed:

    From the “God Hates Republicans” department…

    News Item #1:

    Sen. McCain speaks at American Legion National Convention
    10:51 AM MST, Tue, Aug 26, 2008

    PHOENIX — Some big-name politicians, including presumptive Republican nominee for president Sen. John McCain, will be at the Phoenix Convention Center Tuesday.


    News Item #2:

    Monsoon storm brings rain, wind, thunder to Phoenix

    The Arizona Republic
    Tue, Aug. 26, 2008 12:00 AM

    Thunderstorms pounded the Valley on Monday night with more than an inch of rain in some areas, winds strong enough to flip small planes and dense blowing dust.

    More storms are expected today, said Mike Bruce of the National Weather Service. Scattered showers could develop early in the day with a chance of more severe thunderstorms by the afternoon to evening.

    Today’s thunderstorms threaten to be of the same intensity of Monday’s, with the possibility of more flooding and high winds.


  23. 25

    Vernon spews:

    Roger Rabbit says there is “no way” the ST2 plan can be financed with $69 per person. Of course, a number of people have pointed out to RR how pathetic his “calculations” are. But, like a good crank, Roger keeps going back to the same childish math.

    Yet, the financial information is easy to find – even if you’re a stupid Rossi-like Rabbit.

    I also notice the financial plan has been reviewed by independent experts and put through several tests.

    Maybe slow rabbits can also read travel times savings …before making the broken record claim “light rail makes no sense” (page C-10)

  24. 26

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Roger Rabbit said:

    “@11 My post @1 has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity, and only an idiot like you would read that into it. It speaks to one subject, and only one subject: Republican greed and selfishness. Thanks for asking; I appreciate having this opportunity to clarify that for you.”

    Roger, I’ve been hearing that fucking joke since I was 10 years old, and it very, very often has been tied to ethnic insults. You know very well, you arrogant fucking jerk, that the structure of the joke is built on attacking one or more ethnic groups. Stop being a lying cocksucker!

  25. 27

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    I appreciate having the opportunity to call your attention to the fact that you’re a lying cocksucker, Roger.

    Eat shit and die!!

  26. 28

    Right Stuff spews:

    “you’re a stupid Rossi-like Rabbit.”

    Now that is funny right there…….
    Almost spit my coffee on the keyboard.

    “Fair weather for Obama tonight. Too bad about the hurricane that will slam the Gulf next week, reminding America of the Republican’s second largest disasterous homeland failure”

    Yeah the federal response was slow… BECUASE THE DEMOCRAT GOV SAT ON HER HANDS NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO. Let’s not forget “chocolate city” Democrat Mayor Nagin…..He was a real inspiration…

  27. 29

    busdrivermike spews:

    Vernon, are you fucking stupid? Or do you just work for ST?

    ST also relies on sales tax revenue to fund their projects. They also burn diesel. Every forecast for their future planning, including ST2, contains inflation rates at 2005 levels. Did you actually read the document you linked to? A 3.3% CPI? 5% revenue growth per year? What economy are they projecting that from? Certainly not the US economy. In a stunning display of candor, they state in the report that a zero revenue growth in one year would cost an extra 1.2 billion dollars….FOR ONE YEAR!!

    Are you fucking kidding me? Tax revenues they use for planning do not include a forecast for reduced tax revenues caused by the recession, where revenue is in negative growth, and inflation is beyond 3.3% There is no projection for that scenario.

    So the promises made on the ballot for the ST2 initiative are DOA.

    Do I need to spoon feed you further? Maybe use smaller words so you can keep up?

    And BTW genius, exactly where did I lie? I would either like the exact quote, or an apology.

  28. 30

    Steve spews:

    “The Republicans can’t seem to get a break when it comes to August and when it comes to the weather” Karl Rove

    Whatever, Karl. But thanks anyway for the insight. It’s pretty darn obvious that, when it comes to national disasters like Katrina, Republicans are capable of thinking only in terms of the impact on their own political fortunes and, of course, for that of their cronies.

  29. 31


    Piffle. I’ll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I’ll enjoy living up here in the civilized world north of the border with my two – soon to be three – light rail lines. The same is true of the U.S. joining the civilized world in instituting universal health care.

  30. 32

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    19, 20 – The Economist doesn’t march in lockstep with Republican ideology like the American media does, but they do practice what is delicately called “advocacy journalism” (as opposed to objective journalism) and they hardly ever agree with Democratic policies. There assuredly are differences between how “conservatism” and “liberalism” are practiced in the U.S. and Europe, but in general, The Economist is friendlier to the GOP point of view than the Democratic point of view on nearly all economic issues and most other domestic and foreign issues. Therefore, I put them in the “conservative” category, whatever that is — if you press me for a precise definition, you’ll get something about as clear as Guinness Stout.

  31. 34

    Vernon spews:

    I’m not going to apologize and appeal to your shallow ego, busdrivermike, because you have a whole string of lies and distortions which cannot be defended. Just one example:

    “Hey dream the dream, even if the reality is that in Seattle, 95% of transit ridership will come from buses. As you watch the earth get ripped up, the concrete get poured, the rail get laid, remember, rail is the environmentally responsible thing to do.”

    Um, if ST2 passes, modeling shows rail actually delivers 60% of passenger miles withing the 15 year ST2 build-out.

    Not 5%.

    But you were close!

  32. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “1. Transit riders should pay the real costs of transit and (I assume) so should gas hog drivers.”

    I’ve never said that, and it’s not my position. Years ago, I voted for the sales tax increases that provide subsidizies to Metro Transit. I have consistently supported increased Metro bus service in my comments on this blog. Currently, Metro — like every other mode of transportation — is facing both higher fuel costs and higher ridership in response to high gas prices. In my comment today, I merely suggested raising fares to cover some of these costs; why not, whenever all other forms of transportation cost more? I don’t see that as inconsistent with my past support for subsidized mass transit or expanded bus service.

    “2. Rail is inherently more efficient than gas hoggery and, therefore market forces should drive its success.”

    It would be more accurate to say (light) rail is more fuel-efficient than single-occupancy vehicles. So is an electric car that gets 100 mpg, but if said electric car costs $1 million a copy, it doesn’t make any economic sense, nor will “market forces” drive consumers to showrooms to buy them. I think you’ll find that what market forces support is more roads, more cars, and more oil drilling in environmentally sensitive areas. But that’s not necessarily what we should do. Contrary to market ideologues, market forces do not always produce either the most economically sensible or socially desireable solutions. In the specific case of light rail, the extremely high construction costs in Seattle make it unsuitable for our city, and we ought to be looking to expanded bus service as the most practical and cost-effective method of mass transit. I probably would vote for another sales tax increase to add buses and bus routes. I will not vote for another sales tax increase for light rail because I consider light rail a colossal waste of money.

    “3. ST2 is incompetently written.”

    “Incompetently” is not the right word. ST2 was defeated at the polls last year, and instead of addressing its faults, Sound Transit has merely repackaged it. Instead of working to resolve its faults, Sound Transit is stubbornly resubmitting the same flawed scheme to voters.

    “I took these three halves and found I could not combine them into one whole, can you?”

    Yes, and very simply: What Seattle needs is expanded mass transit at reasonable cost, and that rules out light rail and points in the direction of expanding the existing bus system.

    It seems to me that a large part of the problem is that no one has a good way of estimating real costs of capital intensive social projects. Arguably Japan’s wonderful rail system adds a lot to her productivity and that somehow justfies the low fares. If that is true, one assumes that the businesses receiving this benefit are paying the cost?

  33. 37

    Vernon spews:

    And yes, it is true. I work for the transit company. My name is Mike. I drive a bus. I am also a professional whiner, fighting the man wherever he may hide. And I battle big corporations.

    It’s an uphill battle.

  34. 38

    Vernon spews:

    Right Stuff: don’t laugh. Roger Rabbit is 100% behind the Rossi transportation plan.

    Paving the planet may be the battle cry for today’s right wing “conservative” movement…but they adopted the rubber tire ideology from cranky old Seattle Democrats.

  35. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @25 Yes, I’m a simple childish Rabbit. I don’t believe Wall Street hucksters who claim they can create new wealth by diluting assets or pumping them full of air. And I apparently can make more cogent sense of the financial realities buried in Sound Transit’s acronyms and pie charts than you can.

    Let’s start with ST’s claim that “light rail expansions [will be] completed five to seven years faster than Proposition 1″ and “capital costs are 50% less than 2007 ST2 package.” Exactly how did they accomplish this miracle with a mere 6 months of effort? I’ll tell you how. By splitting 2007’s Prop. 1 package into two parts, ST2 and ST3. If voters approve ST2, ST will hit them up for ST3, and ST2 + ST3 = Prop. 1.

    Kellogg’s can do the same thing by making boxes of Frosted Flakes half as big and charging half as much for them. This may reflect marketing genius, but that’s all it is. It contains no financial improvement for the consumer whatsoever.

    Now let’s look at their pretty pie chart: ST2 taxes 44%, bonds 36%, Sound Move surplus 14%, federal grants 5%, fares and other operating revenues 1%. ST would have you believe that “bonds” are a “source” of funds. Sorry, but bond proceeds are merely borrowed money that has to be paid back with interest, so my question is where will the money to repay the bonds and pay the bond interest come from?

    In the next pie chart, ST tells us 70% of this capital will go to light rail and only 2% to bus service. That speaks for itself: We are sacrificing future expansion of bus service to pursue to holy grail of light rail.

    Also note that riders are being asked to put up only 1% of ST2’s capital costs, while taxpayers put up 44% in direct local taxes. But guess what, the 5% from federal grants is paid by taxpayers, too. That’s a 49:1 ratio of riders-to-taxpayers before you ask where the money to pay off the bonds and interest comes from. This is a great deal for riders, but it’s a lousy deal for the taxpayers. However, this 49:1 ratio is not the dealbreaker for me; I could go along with that if the costs were reasonable and the tax was fair. Unfortunately, the costs are outrageous and you couldn’t finance it with a worse or more unfair tax if you tried.

    I don’t see a per-capita or per-household cost analysis anywhere in this document. I do, however, see a lot of references in inflation indexes. Why? Here’s why.

    Sound Transit is giving you a per-household annual cost in current dollars. But because the ST sales tax is levied as a percentage of the cost of goods and services, it automatically rises with prices. Thus, any statement of the annual cost of the ST tax in current dollars ignores future rises in the tax cost to households becuse of inflation. In fact, the revenue figures work only if there’s substantial tax inflation over the life of the tax.

    We’re told that Phase 2 will cost about $11 billion. If you multiply that by 44% and then divide by approximately 1.2 million households (which accounts for nearly half of the State of Washington’s current population), you get $4,033. This is, very roughly, what Phase 2 will cost each household in sales taxes, disregarding household contributions to the other revenue sources (such as federal taxes). Divide that by 15 years and you get $269 per year in new sales taxes. This figures are, of course, rough and approximate. This doesn’t include Phase 3, which costs extra.

    Sound Transit and light rail’s supporters have used every clever stratagem they can conjure up to conceal the real costs of light rail from voters. The truth is that light rail is a terrible deal for Seattle. The truth is that people who want light rail have passed nearly all of its costs to people who will never use it. This is pocket-picking of the most odious kind.

    I may be only a dumb rabbit, but I’m not as gullible as you would like me to be.

  36. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 Why shouldn’t I be an arrogant fucking jerk? You are. Every Republican is. I have as much right to be an arrogant fucking jerk as you guys do.

  37. 41

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @27 I don’t lie about anything. I don’t have to, because the truth works so well for me. I don’t suck cocks, either. But you can suck my cock if you pay me. For a good time, call 1-900-SUCK-ROG … all proceeds go to the Help Roger Rabbit Live Like A Republican Fund.

  38. 43

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @34 So light rail gets 70 times the capital funding as buses, and carries only 60% of the passengers?

  39. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @38 “Right Stuff: don’t laugh. Roger Rabbit is 100% behind the Rossi transportation plan.”

    I don’t know where you get that shit from. On second thought, I do — you peeled it off the latrine wall. Because it isn’t true. I have made fun of Rossi’s transportation plan in this threads. To wit (but not limited to), I have ridiculed Rossi’s claim that he can build an 8-lane bridge for $1 billion less than a 6-lane bridge costs. Rossi is a fucking liar. But the falsity — nay, slander — of your ludicrous assertion goes much deeper than that. I am not a supporter of more cars and roads. Why would I want more cars? Cars run over rabbits! But I am a supporter of more mass transit, specifically, more bus capacity, more bus routes, and more buses on each route to reduce waiting times. Buses cost far less than light rail and offer flexibility that light rail does not. Once light rail is built, you can’t move it to adjust to shifting housing and employment patterns. And all the rosy projections for light rail assume full utilization of its potential capacity, but even Sound Transit’s propagandists don’t claim that utilization (at its most optimistic) will exceed 12,000 passengers per hour (of a potential 20,000). I have also said that I don’t care what light rail costs or how much of it you build if you pay for it with a sales tax on gasoline. Does that sound like a car-friendly position? You’re clueless about what Roger Rabbit’s actual positions on transportation are. You have your head up your ass, boy! You’re lost in the dark.

  40. 45

    Vernon spews:

    Roger Rabbit talks about widening highways, and making way for his solo driving experience. Dino Rossi takes Roger’s values…puts them into action…then Roger disavows any knowledge of the subject. This is the way it always works: the “pave the planet” guys always avoid telling you about the actual price tag of their follies. Shame on Dino for breaking that vow.

    Similarly, clueless morons like RR tout buses as “cheaper and easier to deploy.” And where do they get that notion? From Kemper Freeman, and other right wing / Libertarian sources. In fact, Roger Rabbit falls for it, hook, line and sinker. Every time.

    Again, proving that his values are aligned with the values of the people he proports to hate.

    And you gotta love the way Roger Rabbit says he’s ok with funding light rail…just so long as they use an unviable revenue source.

    Roger, you really have this whole disinformation thing down, don’t you?

  41. 47

    Vernon spews:

    There are two reasons not a single developed, modern city/ metropolitan area on earth depends on an all-bus transit system.

    It’s simply unsustainable from a financial perspective, and from a mobility perspective. (PS – buses burn diesel fuel and tear up pavement)

    Only a completely ignorant person would propose such a ridiculous idea.

    Roger Rabbit seems to be proud of this status.

  42. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 “Roger Rabbit talks about widening highways, and making way for his solo driving experience.”

    Where do you get that bullshit from? Cite, please. You’re a liar. I never said any such thing.

  43. 49

    Oran spews:

    One of the big differences between last year’s Prop 1 and this year’s Prop 1 is that we will get an immediate increase in ST Express bus service by 17% next year. There’s the “more buses now” for you. The entire system will be completed in 15 years, five years faster than Roads & Transit and will increase regional ridership to more than 800,000 a day (and possibly even more due to conservative projections under the FTA model). Oh, and no extra taxes for roads when people are driving less than ever.

    If ST2 is constructed, by 2030, 80% of ST’s ridership will come from LINK light rail which runs off electricity. ST is building a system using 0.4% sales tax that will carry 40% of all transit ridership in 2030 (661,000 total without ST2) while Metro is struggling to expand and maintain service with the 0.9% it is getting. Who knows how much diesel will cost in 2030? I can bet it’ll be much more than electricity. No “double whammy” for light rail here.

    “If voters approve ST2, ST will hit them up for ST3, and ST2 + ST3 = Prop. 1.”

    Not true. If it ever comes, ST3 will be funded by the same 0.5% tax increase authorized by ST2. If ST3 is rejected, the 0.5% tax will be rolled back after the bonds have been paid off. Sound Transit can reuse the same taxing authority to expand the system. Metro can never do this when it is a bus only agency.

  44. 50

    busdrivermike spews:

    Vernon, I would like to quote you now, just to make an example of what a complete moron you are.

    “Um, if ST2 passes, modeling shows rail actually delivers 60% of passenger miles withing the 15 year ST2 build-out.”

    Oran says that 40% of transit ridership will be rail riders.

    And the SLUT is a smashing success, right? What flavor kool-aid are you guys drinking at ST this month?

    So, you are saying that 60% of transit ridership(or is it 40%?) will be composed of rail riders? You can build any model you want, and we all know where that model comes from, but it does not pass the smell test.

    I stand by what I say, after ST2 is built, 95% of transit ridership will be in buses. It is simply a fact.

    There is absolutely nobody who knows anything about transit who makes the claim that transit ridership will be composed of 60% rail riders. It is hokum. It is tripe.

    How will people get to light rail from Magnolia, Ballard, Queen Anne, Madison Park, Genesee, West Seattle, Burien, White Center, Auburn, Factoria, Bothell, Kenmore, Lake City, Shoreline, Greenlake, Wallingford, Sand Point, etc., etc,etc,etc? How does Renton get helped by light rail?

    They will be taking the bus. Light rail will solve nothing for them. Light rail will serve a small cross section of voters, unless they are going downtown. It will be a great corporate welfare program for Microsoft. Light rail will only serve small segments of the Rainier Valley and Beacon Hill, and give airporter service when it opens next year. That is why they forced a vote this year. For almost everyone in Seattle, light rail will be a slower airport service from downtown, as compared to the #194.

    You sirs, are what Lenin would call one of Sound Transit’s “useful idiots”. You have just enough facts to make an argument, albeit, one full of holes. This is just another boondoggle foisted upon the citizenry by elitist stooges who want to feel like they live in a “world class city”.

    And if you think I am anti ST because I drive a bus, that is the biggest laugh of all. If these guys make a decision, I get OT. If they don’t, I get OT. Budget crisis=OT. No budget crisis=OT. Guess who will be driving the train, and making OT?

    I just think buses are a way better, cost effective, transportation option given the geography, and more importantly, the GEOLOGY, of Seattle.

  45. 51

    ClarkJ spews:

    BusdriverMike says it’s a fact, because he says so. Which is an incredibly weak argument in my book. What I look for is people who can back up their statements with something beyond grudge-driven vitriol. Neither RogerRabbit nor BusdriverMike pass this relatively simple test.

    Geology is now the test? Come again? Geology is what slows my over-packed crapo bus to a near stop when climbing hills. On bad days, I could walk home faster. Sorry, this is not the transit system of the future. Poor bus service does give conservatives an excellent argument against subsidizing any & all public transportation. I sense some self-hatred in BusdriverMike’s comments. Could this be his goal?

  46. 52

    ClarkJ spews:

    Somehow, I doubt Mike will be given the keys to that train. From what I hear, only the good drivers have been trained for new rail service. Grudges = personal failures in my book. Do your job, and jump the speed bumps life throws your way, and typically angry middle aged white guys start sounding like normal humans again.

    I grow tired of the lazy “world class city for corporate thieves” explanation / conspiracy theory. BusdriverMike, can’t you make-up a new story? How’s about the explanation that light rail is only being built to appease the communist alien overlords? That would make a lot more sense than your outdated story. While we’re on the topic of tall tales, I am wondering if Mike could give us the Ron Paul pitch for public transportation?

    Mike has told us in the past that eliminating HOV lanes would be just fine with him So, one could imagine the Ron Paul approach to transport couldn’t be that much worse.

  47. 53

    busdrivermike spews:


    “Geology is what slows my over-packed crapo bus to a near stop when climbing hills.”

    No, that would be GEOGRAPHY. The study of the land and its features, for example, hills.

    Geology is the study of the solid matter that constitutes the earth. You would use geology, if you were going to, say bore a tunnel for a choo-choo twain.

    I could explain why “Geography” is also important to the debate, but you guys have drunk your kool-aid, and are just about personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with you. I know, I know, we should all just pay more taxes for your boondoggle, and shut up. And if we don’t, we are just “tin foil hatters”. It isn’t this poster who seems to have the time to come up with quotes from this poster written long ago. I do not remember saying getting rid of HOV lanes would be a good idea, but coming from someone who does not know what the difference between “geology”, and “geography” is, well, I will consider the source of that attribution.

    ClarkJ, I sentence you to watching to the more remedial episodes of “Sesame Street”.

    I stand corrected from my post in #50. You two posters, who seem to have the same pompous writing style and childish preference for personal attacks, are not useful idiots. Because you are not useful.

  48. 54

    busdrivermike spews:


    “I grow tired of the lazy “world class city for corporate thieves” explanation / conspiracy theory.”

    How about the “tin foil hatter” theory of how a streetcar was built with taxpayer money so a billionaire would have a link to downtown from his vast real estate holdings on South Lake Union.

    Breathlessly awaiting your response, ClarkJ.

  49. 55

    glacial till spews:

    As can be seen from the above, the only arguments in favor of ST2 are based on phoney baloney ridership estimates. Guess what, kiddies: the corporations who would make the money off of ST2 are lying about ridership. Very few people will ride the trains. Their ridership projections are fantasy. Nobody can prove or disprove them, so that is why the marketing campaign for this measure relies on them. Look at the arguments for ST2 apart from projected ridership numbers. What you have is a big NOTHING.

  50. 56

    Vernon spews:

    Glacial till: right wingers said the same thing about light rail in Portland, Denver, Phoenix, Salt Lake, LA, etc. Once the systems opened, ignorant comments about “no riders” disappeared.

    Ridership estimates for federally supported light rail projects have been inaccurate alright: Denver’s actual ridership has been 40-50% higher. If you have other statistics to boost your argument, please share them with us. If not, please stop spreading bad information.

    Get a load of busdrivermike complaining about personal attacks, while at the same time continuously engaging in schoolyard name-calling.

    Yeah, guy. You are obviously a lot smarter and more mature than the rest of the world. ‘Bus drivers against transit’ makes us think you’re a real smart, credible and rational cat.

    The notion tunnels cannot be built in Seattle because of glacial till (and “the corporations”) is absurd. Tunnels are being bored all the time around here. For sewer projects, roads, utilities. Sure, tunneling is expensive for light rail north. But the high ridership – and lack of any other options – outweighs the cost. Light rail extensions besides UW-Lake City Way (a few miles) features no tunneling at all.

    To insinuate tunneling is not possible….another distortion, bordering on lie.

  51. 57

    Vernon spews:

    busdrivermike: what amount of taxpayer money was used to “build the streetcar.”

    We get it: you hate corporations. But we are talking transportation here.

    As far as the flavor of kool aid I drink: not unlike all the kool aid every progressive, modern, people-oriented city across North America has been drinking for decades.

    Light rail is a basic, proven technology.

    The only cult-like kool aid drinkers around here are those who say Seattle will be the only city left in the world which depends on low capacity, stuck in traffic diesel buses as the backbone of its transit system.

  52. 58

    glacial till spews:

    Vernon, obviously your employer would make $$$ if ST2 passes. Whatever.

    Your argument stinks. If Portland or Denver or SLC had accurate ridership forecasts, that doesn’t mean for one second that ST’s ridership forecasts now are accurate. Was the same methodology used? Which assumptions were the same, and which were different?

    If you have any idea how ST’s ridership forecasts were calculated – which I doubt – explain what they were based on and how they were calculated. I say they are bullshit, so it is up to you to prove me wrong.

  53. 59

    Vernon spews:

    glacial bull: stop talking in platitudes and generalities. Give us some specifics.

    You made the claim about ridership forecasting.

    Now back it up.

    See, this is what separates the adults from the children.

  54. 60

    Vernon spews:

    I get a real kick out of how these anti-transit ideologues make claims that
    1) I am an ST employee
    2) I have no idea how ST calculates its ridership


  55. 61

    Vernon spews:

    So far, the only specifics we’ve heard from busdriver till is, and I quote: “phoney baloney.”