Seattle Times political reporter David Postman is reporting from eastern Washington this week, and he’s sending back some great stuff. His most recent post is from Garfield County. (Anti-government types, pay attention: Garfield’s two largest employers are the federal government and the county itself. Go figure.)
Postman interviews some rock-ribbed Republican family farmers, and finds that not everything is going as planned:
These are no longer the energetic Republican backers who in 2000 spent $3,000 of their own money to make a batch of 4-by-8-foot “Save Our Dams” signs that urged people to vote Republican. You won’t see them at a rally this year, or maybe even at the Republican caucus Feb. 9. Where Mary had “a totally intense feeling” about the campaign in 2000, today there is a palpable sense of disillusionment.
In the GOP’s SOP, meaningless fringe issues are used to rile the peons, while the Wall Street faction gets exactly what they want. (Dividend tax cuts! Corporate tax cuts! A farm bill that pays millions to ADM and peanuts to the little guys!)
Meanwhile the Dyes sold off their life insurance policies, reduced their health insurance to a bare minimum, and put their kids on the state’s Basic Health Plan. And they all scrimped. When there was a bit of milk left in the bottom of a glass, it got poured back into the carton for another day. Mary said:
“In large part, there’s something really awful to me about a man who has been farming since 1978, now in his mid-50s, having to struggle like this.”
Farmers were at the epicenter of the Progressive movement in the early twentieth century. They said, through their great champion, that they would not be crucified on a “cross of gold.”
Mary stayed involved in politics up until mid-2004. She was a Bush supporter and leading the Washington state effort to draft that year’s party platform. Then as her family and friends struggled she no longer wanted to be part of the system that had once energized her.
She quit the campaign and all the party business. She didn’t tell anyone why and everyone was apparently too polite to ask.
“George Bush has betrayed me personally. … I just definitely thought he understood.”
Software folks have a saying for when something doesn’t work right. They say “it’s a feature, not a bug.” The Bush Administration was always all about screwing the little guy and using the government for the advantage of the powerful. That was the idea all along.
It would be easy to go all “What’s The Matter With Kansas?” on these folks, and to dis them for voting against (what I perceive to be) their economic self interest, but that’s gauche. I can’t expect them to be wooed by an argument of economic populism if the leading Democratic candidates aren’t wooing them with one. It’s as simple as that.
Good post Will.
These Republicans disaffected by Bushism should run themselves for office even if it’s on the R ticket.
Change from the shameless corruption of the Bushies can only come if people take action.
Yeah, we could use a dose Bryan’s populist rhetoric, you know… minus the calculated anti-semitism.
Exactly AND .. this is the strategy that Avxelrod put in place with BHO months ago.
BHO comes across very much like a guy form kansas (sic) .. sharing cultural beliefs with the small farmer, Add to that:
a. a focus on America
b. fair trade
c, equal opportnities for an education and health care.
I see BHO in chaurch with the other Kansans.
@2
William Jennings Bryan was the Lou Dobbs of his day.
WJB hated Charles Darwin, was an absolute fundamentalist, vigorously fought the teaching of evolution, prosecuted the Scopes Monkey Trial, resigned from Woodrow Wilson’s cabinet in protest over Wilson’s strong protest to the Germans over the sinking of the Lusitania, and couldn’t get himself elected dogcatcher on the national level, failing in three runs for the White House.
Typical Democrat?
Excessive governmental mucking in agriculture via price supports and anti-competitive regulations have caused a lot of the farming community grief in Eastern Washington.
Vote in their self-interest? You mean for higher taxes, more regulation, less freedom, restrictions on liberty, attacks on their values? Not hardly.
The Piper
George Bush personally betrayed her?
Cry me a river, Mary.
It would have been okay with her if Bush had merely screwed Democrats. It would have been just dandy if his insane, self-serving, hopelessly cynical rhetoric had merely damaged the national discourse. It would have been cool if he had destroyed any chance for those who might benefit from cures developed through funding stem cell research. It would have been a good thing if he had shoved gay people into the ditch.
But when he personally betrayed HER, well, that was that.
You mean for higher taxes,
on those who don’t pay their fair share to finance endless wars and health care for the shattered bodies and minds of veterans and their families.
more regulation,
Yes, it should be against the law for people to hurt other people while pursuing profit.
less freedom,
to hurt other people while pursuing profit.
restrictions on liberty,
to hurt other people while pursuing profit
attacks on their values?
the value of pursuing profit at the expense of others, i.e. greed.
Just got an email from a friend in Spokane, they got a foot of snow last night. Schools are closed and everyone is out sledding. I wish I was out sledding.
The SE Washington folks tend to be pragmatic and understand they need government. Most of the crazies are in North-Central and North-East Washington.
@5 Cracked Piper writes: “Excessive governmental mucking in agriculture via price supports and anti-competitive regulations have caused a lot of the farming community grief in Eastern Washington.”
Piper. Stick to local politics. Your remark above betrays an abysmal ignorance of agricultural issues, policy, economics, and eastern Washington. It is egregiously wrong in every respect. You should be embarrassed.
@7…YippyLil’Boy…
What percentage of tax revenue is paid by the top 50% of income earners?
What do you have against the free market, opportunity, and liberty? My guess is you’ve never been successful in interpersonal relationships so you blame your poor social skills on others thus justifying regulating their behavior rather than improving your own.
Your high taxes and intrusive regulation hurt those who seek to pursue profit. As for those how are afraid of being hurt? No risk, no reward; no pain, no gain; no guts, no glory.
I love how you loathe success and seek to drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator of your life. Hell, at least Rabbit admits and revels that he makes a rapacious killing in the stock market; so much the better for him! Your glass is always half-empty bordering on all the way down.
What do you do besides whine and complain about how you’re all the time picked on?
Instead of being a baby about life, go out and challenge it, make a million or two, then underwrite your favorite causes instead of stealing from the taxpayers.
Ooohhh…but you might get hurt in the process, so best stay under your bed and cower in fear.
The Piper
The Postman article is very good, by the way.
What really amuses me about jackasses like the crackpiper and the puddybuttster and the vitriolic redneck is that despite ALL empirical evedence to the contrary they continue to believe that the current “conservative” government…the movement spawned by their idol Ronald Reagan is somehow the victim here.
They have had it their way for the better part of the last 25 years.
They have had a lock on the legislative, executive and judicial processes at the national level and for the most part at the state and local levels.
And this awesome conserva-libertarian governance has failed…completely and utterly failed at doing anything but enrich the plutocracy that designed this mess and put it in place through thee unholy alliance of the mega-corporations and the religious right.
And these dumbasses wander on and on and on thinking that somehow all this will be better if the cowbell was louder. If they had MORE control…BIGGER corporations…LESS competition.
I could never take them seriously.
NOTHING they ever said ever made sense.
Still doesn’t.
@10: Face reality Piper – there is a reason why Bush is at historically low levels of support (and saying congress is lower – doesn’t cut it – (Congress is dems and obstructionist republicans and ALWAYS runs lower than the president (except for Nixon)).
Speaking of Nixon – Bush is near Nixon levels and has been down there much longer than Nixon was.
The country is turning against bush and the republican policies of war, deficit and corruption. Thanks Will = good piece on the ex-republicans coming to grips with reality.
We need more populism (just not the early 19th century kind) to bring the government back to of, by and for the people – not the coporations. what is good for GM ain’t always good for our country and the people in it.
I think RR is wrong about how demcrats should run: We can still appeal and work with republicans on some issues. that is why I think clinton won’t be as good a president. I think reaching across the aisle meand finding common ground – without giving up your ground.
For instance:
Getting out of Iraq: We can appeal to the supporters of
Ron Paul and Huckabee on this issue.
Anti-torture: We can appeal to supporters of McCain
civil rights: whoever will come.
What percentage of tax revenue is paid by the top 50% of income earners?
Not enough to balance the budget and pay off the debt for the fallout of endless wars
What do you have against the free market, opportunity, and liberty?
Nothing. I’m all for it – as long as you don’t hurt anyone.
My guess is you’ve never been successful in interpersonal relationships, blah, blah, blah…
You guess wrong. You’re fantasizing. That’s your record here. It’s why you’re called the crackpiper.
Your high taxes and intrusive regulation hurt those who seek to pursue profit.
Taxes and regulations should be as low and unintrusive as possible but no lower and no less intrusive than needed for fiscal responsibility, a safe workplace and a clean environment for all.
As for those how are afraid of being hurt? No risk, no reward; no pain, no gain; no guts, no glory.
No excuse for shoddy products, malpractice and environmental pollution and degradation.
Blah, blah, blah:
You can’t stop what’s coming in November – loser.
@5
Excessive governmental mucking in agriculture via price supports and anti-competitive regulations have caused a lot of the farming community grief in Eastern Washington.
Oh my god, did the Crackpiper actually write this? Holy shit. Crackpiper, I would love to seriously encourage you to visit the family described in the post above and regale them with your tall tales about what has actually happened with small farms in this state. Any excessive governmental mucking never had anything to do with helping small farmers. They had to do with helping American companies defeat foreign competition.
Vote in their self-interest? You mean for higher taxes, more regulation, less freedom, restrictions on liberty, attacks on their values? Not hardly.
Attacks on their values? Yeah, I’m sure the Dye family is relieved that even though they can barely get by after decades of hard work that gay people still can’t get married. You’re an embarrassment.
When I was back home recently, as I always do, I get to see how the other side lives. My buddy from high school, who is 33 and still lives with his parents, told me that his dad is “CEO of 4 companies, so he plays a lot of golf.” Needless to say, they’re Republicans. None of them will ever have to face the kinds of problems that the Dyes have, and they are among the few Republicans whose votes for the GOP are truly rooted in financial sense. The rest of them are like you, people who try to sound smart by saying that any type of government intervention into the markets is bad. What we end up with is a government run by corporations, who use government to enrich themselves, while always counting on mental retards like you to keep their gravy train alive.
Good work, dude. Your idiocy is magnificent.
I think the “working Republicans” are finally getting the idea, Will’s conclusions are spot-on, as the British put it.
After years of Republican rule, the results are in, and the independents are becoming Democrats, lots of young people who didn’t bother to vote before are likely to get out and vote for Obama, and a LOT of working-class Republicans are going to sit out the 2008 election entirely.
But what is really strange is how the remainder of the Republican party is reacting to all this. You would be thinking that their survival mode would be to “move to the center”. But they aren’t doing that. Instead, they seem to be moving blindly even further to the right. Today’s news reports are of McCain and Romney each accusing the other of being “too liberal”, which I find absolutely hysterical.
Why would the Republicans engage in such lemmen-like behavior? Because they are too insular. As the moderates have deserted the party (or lost elections in swing states), they increasingly hear only from those who argue that “the only problem is that we aren’t being conservative enough. We need to do more – push to privatize social security, promise another big tax cut to the rich in order to cure the economy, abolish FEMA altogether (it should be a charity & local problem), etc.” So to get the party’s nomination, and mistakenly thinking that this represents the thinking of the middle-class (because they are told that it is), they keep moving further and further away from center, towards the radical right.
I’m not going to argue. After eight years of the Bush administration, the “are you better off than you were before” claim is going to leave the Republicans in shatters in the 2008 election.
Why would the Republicans engage in such lemmen-like behavior? Because they are too insular. As the moderates have deserted the party (or lost elections in swing states), they increasingly hear only from those who argue that “the only problem is that we aren’t being conservative enough.
Perfect! “Spot-on” as always, rhp. Kudos.
@10 Piper
What percentage of tax revenue is paid by the top 50% of income earners?
Assuming we both believe in a free market, then the correct way to ask this question would have been ..”Who gets the greatest return per tax dollar, the top 50% or the bottom 20%?”
Based on classical capitalism, you would have to conclude it must be the folks in the upper bracket or the ivisible hand would nto work.
The trouble with your arguement Piper is thaty you confuse the acquisiton of money, “mercantilism,” with the modern c concept of capitalism. Read some Ricardo.
What do you have against the free market, opportunity, and liberty?
Nothing, it is the RIGHT that usually threatens to limit the free market. Monopolism, or example, is verry much limiting to the free market. In contrast unioversal health care enables a free market by freeing poeople to compete.
Lets just l;ok at the “opportunities” we have received ij the US an who gave them to us:
Free land: gift of TJ.
Free education: gift of TJ and Franklin.
The Internet: gift of Al Gore (true!)
The vote: gift of a series of governments under Dems.
And the ne frontiers? Where do the parties satnd:
universal free higher ed.
universal health care.
investment in new technologies that benefit our entrepreneurs.
Lets contrast this with Reprican ideas:
subsidize foreign investment
starve American development of infrastructure
tax the middle class to pay bonds to the wealthy
abolish laws that block monopolies
tax work at a much higher rate than capital so workers can not accumulate capital.
discourage education by making it expensive relative to the middle class.
discourage students from creative (business founding) ventures by the need to pay of debts.
Your high taxes and intrusive regulation hurt those who seek to pursue profit. As for those how are afraid of being hurt? No risk, no reward; no pain, no gain; no guts, no glory.
The USA is something like 48th in the world in the level of taxation. OTOH, our strongest cometitors, Canada, Sweden, Germany have much higher taxes BUT … they have lower salaries for top execs and level the playing field with free education and univ. health care.
Instead of being a baby about life, go out and challenge it, make a million or two, then underwrite your favorite causes instead of stealing from the taxpayers.
and WHO would you cite as your role models? Paul Allen or Billy G. One made lots dough by accident, the other fits your mold AND supports social welfare.
Your concept seems closer to Al capone than it does to Henry Ford.
If you’re trouble making sense out of what Piper posts here, read a medical textbook on proctology.
Take special care to study the illustrations.
That’s Piper’s view of the world.
Are we supposed to weep for something like this?
“She thinks the war has been mishandled. Not in the way politicians talk about the occupation or strategic military decisions or complaints about misinformation in the run-up to the war. She says Bush was right to attack Iraq, that Saddam was the right target and she nothing she’s learned since would change her mind.”
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsou......html#more
What we have here is someone bitching that Bush isn’t consevative enough, bitching because her government didn’t steal Iraq’s oil or force Iraqis to buy her wheat, angry that more taxpayer largesse hasn’t come her way — and who doesn’t give a shit about all the lying, torture, or innocent dead Iraqi civilians.
I have no sympathy for her. In fact, I’m going to start reading bread labels and buying wheat from Australia. Fuck these self-centered Wheat Republicans.
for someone like
I read somewhere that the four Snake River dams, which cost us millions of salmon worth hundreds of millions of dollars every year, produce less than 5% of the region’s hydropower and provide irrigation water for only 17 farms. (They are, of course, very large corporate farms.)
“Mary says that America ‘should be reaping the benefits of the Iraqi oil to pay back our costs’ and that U.S. farmers, not those in Australia, should be first in line to sell wheat in post-war Iraq.”
“Meanwhile the Dyes sold off their life insurance policies, reduced their health insurance to a bare minimum, and put their kids on the state’s Basic Health Plan. And they all scrimped.”
Hmmm … isn’t Basic Health WELFARE? I thought Wheat Republicans were against WELFARE (except the reclamation and crop subsidy kind). She better be careful — if she votes for Dinosour, he might kick her kids off WELFARE. I wonder how many of those 40,000 kids he kicked off health care to balance the state budget were offspring of Wheat Republicans?
Of course, farming is (and always has been) a boom-and-bust business — not much different from playing the slots or buying lottery tickets. Here out west, it’s also a business that depends on massive federal reclamation subsidies — averaging more than $2 million a farm — to show in the black. And that black ink is, of course, phony … a product of cooked books … because if you added in the cost to taxpayers of uncountable billions in irrigation, power, and farm subsidies (not to mention rural electrification, schools, roads, and other infrastructure subsidized by urban taxpayers), no western farm or ranch has ever made a dime.
And these fucking ingrates, whose lifestyles are subsidized by massive financial burdens levied on urban taxpayers, have the nerve to rant against Democrats, “welfare,” and government in general. What a bunch of fucking assholes.
They can’t even argue that they feed us, because they don’t. Some years ago, I read in an EPA information packet that 95% of U.S. beef is raised in feedlots east of the Mississippi River and Florida is the top beef-producing state. The same is true of corn, wheat, and other key crops: Most of it comes from naturally-watered eastern and heartland farms. Arid western lands, even with the help of massive federal reclamation projects, simply aren’t very productive.
Mostly, what all of this massive federal spending accomplishes is to preserve a romanticized lifestyle, so these people can live on the land and don’t have to get city jobs. I’m not saying they don’t work. Sure, it’s damned hard work tilling the soil and forcing things to grow from barren scablands. But that doesn’t make it PRODUCTIVE. As an analogy, just because I put a lot of time and effort into flipping stocks — it’s hard work — doesn’t mean I produce anything. The truth is, I don’t produce a fucking thing, and these heavily-subsidized scabland farmers produce only slightly more than I do. At least my operation shows a profit with no expense to taxpayers; you can’t say the same for them. They’re a net liability on society’s balance sheet.
And then she has the nerve to criticize our government for not stealing more from the Iraqis and giving it to her.
I don’t have much optimism that the Dyes’ disillusionment with Bush will turn into political realism. They want a president who will be more, not less, Republican. They want a public tit to suck on … but not a Democratic-sponsored public tit. They want more, not less, city taxes and higher bread prices paid by urban consumers to prop up their lifestyle.
Now let’s examine the chasm between advertised Republican “values” and Wheat Republican reality.
Advertised value: Thrift, saving, staying out of debt.
Reality: Farmers borrow for their land, borrow for their seed, borrow for expensive equipment, and perpetually cry on the shoulder of any reporter willing to listen about farm debt and how tough it is to be a farmer because you’re in debt all the time.
Advertised value: Self-reliance, independence, self-supporting.
Reality: For generations — until big industrial and financial corporations learned how to milk the federal cow — nobody had a bigger tin cup, or held it out more often, than farmers. Nothing’s changed in farm country; they still have the tin cup out, and most of their political griping consists not of complaints against welfare, but complaints that there isn’t enough welfare (for them).
You get the drift — like all GOPers, Wheat Republicans are hypocrites par excellence, not to mention whiners and freeloaders.
Now I think I’ll head to Albertson’s and look for some bread made from Aussie wheat.
26 The difference now, is that the farm families that have managed to keep getting their tin cups filled so they can gas up their tractors and pretend it’s still 1875 are finding it harder to do so. The reason is that there are a bunch of folks with names like “Archer D. Midland” and “C. O. Nagra” who have much larger cups, and permission to hold them right underneath the money chute.
#7 YLB says:
No doubt you’ve seen the figures, the top 10% pay almost 66% of the taxes. What, isn’t that fair enough in your mind?
When you consider the top 50% pay almost 97% no doubt you don’t see that as fair either.
What do *you* consider fair?
#18 SeattleJew says:
It’s only free to the person not paying for it. It’s not free to the person(s) paying the bill.
What is so hard for you to understand that nothing the government gives away is free??
Wanna examine why higher education costs so much? Any ideas? Maybe professors are greedy and want a big paycheck? Maybe schools shouldn’t spend money on “research” and use it for educating. Any ideas why education is so costly?
28 – So you say. Let say it’s true for the moment. It’s not enough to balance the budget and pay off the bloody stinking wars this administration has started.
The poor and the middle class can’t pay it off. They’re broke. No real wage increases for years.
Who cares…they deserve the loose their farm. Rural Republicans thought it was more important to stop “them gays” from getting married than supporting unions and family farms. Ironic for a farmer to reap what he has sown. Well, you helped push back gay marriage another 5 or 10 years…even though whether it EVER happens will have no impact on these people what so ever. They voted against their interests based on bogus social issues that don’t even affect them.
And I LOVE that the biggest employer of these “Republicans” in the county is the government. LOL.
And wasn’t it cute that these fine folks had NO problem running to the government for state’s Basic Health Plan when THEY needed it, but I bet if they weren’t using it, they’d vote to cut it every time. Jerks.
@28
We had gone from a 94% in 1945 to a top rate of 35% today and the top 10% is paying 66% of the taxes.
Don’t you see something wrong with that?
Capitalism depends on the free flow of income. Wealth should move to those Horatio Alger’s with dedication and perseverance.
Conservatives are out to destroy capitalism with their perverse idea that wealth must always remain in the hands of the wealthy.
What the MF Rujax! forgets is American History history. Why is it leftist idiots who seem to spout off the most saying nothing worthwhile seem to be most ignorant of American History?
Which party initiated the raid on the SS trust fund?
Which party decided the waiter/waitress tips needed taxing to delay the SS fund running out debacle?
Which party controlled Congress made deals with presidents to reduce the deficit and instead broke their word and spent even more to exacerbate the deficit then tried to blame it on those presidents?
When MF Rujax! decides to answer those questions on American History we can have a debate and I’ll buy the MF a beer.
When MF Rujax! talks about how the donkeys perpetuate the destruction of human life call me! Remember Al Gore/John Kerry would have won except for all the aborted donkeys who couldn’t vote so that’s why you want the illegal immigrants!
Piper: Speaking, writing, or communicating with Clueless(YLB) is a lesson in futility. Remember he claims to be an Eisenhower Republican, yet his positions are so leftist he’s an extreme 16%er. He’ll post anything on this site to make himself look good.
You are wasting your time with him. When someone can’t create a simple Excel spreadsheet to add cells, you know you’ve got troubles. When you try and debate him, do the PuddyMove:
1) Sit down at your system
2) Navigate to this blog
3) Read a thread
4) Spy a Clueless chant
5) Put your hand (either works) to your head extending your thumb and forefinger in the Loser pose as you read the Clueless chant
6) Place your hands on the keyboard
7) Let out a deep (sigh)
8) Respond at your own risk
9) See if Clueless delivers another belicose rant.
10) Go to 6 as needed.
When you pick on Clueless it’s like cleaning your nose in the morning in the bathroom. You pick it and you flick it, never to be seen again. Move on to a person who at least can admit when they are wrong, rhp6033. Even correctnotright moderates his position.
MS @29: It is true that a “fee college education” isn’t really free, somebody has to pay for it. But the eternal question is who pays, how much, and who gets to get the education. Lots of room for dispute there.
But where you really miss the mark is when you target “research” at the universities, arguing that the universities should only be engaging in education. The fact is, that research actually helps support the education budget, as the faculty usually has to go out and solicit grants from private sources to fund much of that research. Similarly, students (often graduate assistants) perform much of the “grunt work” in that research, helping both the University, helping to pay for their education, and also allowing the students to participate in the cutting edges of their fields.
And calling professers “greedy” for wanting to get paid too much flies in the face of so many facts, its hard to know where to start. Let’s start with the fact that their university salaries hardly pay back for the level of education they have invested in their careers. Let’s also start with the fact that most can make far more money in private industry. Finally, let’s point out that most of them actually make a good deal of money doing work on the side – writing & publishing books, consulting to private businesses, serving as expert witnesses to law enforcement and in civil cases, etc.
And why is it that a professer who wants to get paid what he (or she) is worth is “greedy”, when a CEO who gets paid millions in bonuses from a company he just got fired from because it is losing money, is considered “smart” for getting the most out of his company? At least you don’t have to promise a university professor millions of dollars in annual bonuses and back-dated stock options in order to “incentivise” him to do the job he is already being paid to do, in the first place.
I would love to be in a Board Meeting of a Fortune 500 company, when the CEO argues he needs to get paid millions more to provide the “incentive” he needs to look after the shareholder’s interest (which is simply what he is paid to do in the first place). I would respond the same way most employers treat their employees:
Me: Is there a problem with the accounting office in the company?
CEO: (Defensivly) There’s no problem in accounting. Accounting is doing fine. I pay a lot of attention to the accounting department. I can assure you it has never operated better.
Me: How about Human Resources? Are they making an undue number of mistakes?
CEO: “No, we have the best people available working in Human Resources. They are doing a fine job, under my watchful eye.”
Me: “So everybody’s getting their paychecks on time? Nobody’s having to wait for their paychecks?”
CEO: (Becoming angry) “Look, I don’t know who’s been telling you tales, but there’s nothing wrong in accounting or payroll. Everybody gets paid on time. What’s this all about?”
Me: “So you, personally, get your paycheck on time twice a month? You got your $65,000 bi-weekly salary last Friday?”
CEO: “Of course I did”.
Me: Well, consider yourself incentivised. If that doesn’t work for you, you know where the door is, I’ll be happy to take your resignation at any time.
#30 YLB says:
So you believe the poor and middle class shouldn’t pay their fair share? What do you believe, they should live in a country and not have to pay their way?
I’m sorry your wages haven’t increased since bush took office. That must suck to be stuck financially. I know I’m making more $$ than I was under clinton.
#33 THE Puddybud The Prognosticator… says:
Can I play??
Which party took the $ from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so congress could spend it?
Which party eliminated the income tax deduction for social security withholding?
Which party started taxing social security annuities?
Which party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?
#35 hp6033 says:
Dispute? The person getting the education should pay for it. Simple. If you think otherwise, send me a check for my further education. Don’t be a hypocrite!
#36 rhp6033 says:
I used the word greedy because that’s the fav word of the extreme-left for the producers of the world. You didn’t address why college is so expensive.
So the cost of college education is sooo high, university salaries hardly pay it back? Doesn’t that tell you something is wrong? So, why is college education so expensive? Where’s the $$ going?
#37 rhp6033 says:
Because poor people need an education too. As long as a college education is kept expensive the poor people will never have a fair chance. Once again, the democrats plan to keep minorities poor, uneducated and dependent on the government. Kudos to your party.
Marvin@41: These have been my arguments since I’ve been here talking about my people.
Thanks for mentioning this again.