There’s a memorable scene in the 1972 disaster flick The Poseidon Adventure (my favorite movie of all time… when I was nine) in which the main characters come across a second group of survivors shuffling down a hallway toward the bow. Gene Hackman’s character tries to convince them to follow him toward the stern of the capsized ship, and counterintuitively up to the engine room, but to no avail. The unfortunate group is presumed drowned moments later when the deck floods.
That’s kinda how I view the 2010 election cycle.
No doubt this is going to be a very bad year for Democrats, an outcome as predictable and unavoidable as the fate of the doomed cruise ship Poseidon the moment the captain first got word of an earthquake off Crete. But while Republicans are looking forward to a Big Red Wave™, the surest path toward electoral survival is proving to be not so clear once your world is flipped upside down. Just ask the bevy of NRSC endorsed candidates who will be watching the November general election from the sidelines.
And yesterday’s primary results don’t add any more clarity. In a supposedly profoundly anti-incumbent year, embattled U.S. Sen. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas managed to win a run-off election, a not inconsiderable feat, while establishment Republicans went on to win top of the ticket primaries in California. Yet in Nevada, former frontrunner Sue Lowden became the latest machine GOPer to fall victim to internecine rivalry with the Tea Party Express.
But, apart from a handful of high profile Republican incumbents defeated by challengers from the far right, and party-switcher Sen. Arlen Specter’s loss to a challenger from the slightly-left-of-center, this presumably anti-incumbent primary season has thus far produced little evidence of actual anti-incumbency. 395 House members have sought or are seeking reelection this year, and so far only three have lost their primaries. That’s less than one percent. Try reading them tea leaves.
The one thing that is clear is that the Democratic Party appears to be holding steady, at least ideologically, while its Republican counterpart is lurching wildly to the right, a shift that doesn’t help the GOP’s efforts to retake either house. I guess there are some states in which crazy wins; I mean, you can’t get much nuttier than retiring Sen. Jim Bunning, though in Rand Paul, Kentuckians appear to have found their man. But I’m not sure if the best way to exploit a throw the bums out mentality is to put up challengers who make Newt Gingrich look like Adlai Stevenson.
Like I said, it’s a bad year for Dems. A mid-term election in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression. Nothing good can come from that. But with the political tsunami capsizing Republicans and Democrats alike, the morning after the general election might not look as grim as a lot of folks expect.
The Democrats need to remind voters of the state of the economy, and the state of the country, just two years ago when W had been in charge for 8 years. He had driven the economy right to the edge of a cliff and even the most conservative in his administration recognized the need for an immediate bailout. Remember when John McCain wanted to shut down his campaign so he could return to Washington to help resolve the problem?
After what the Republicans did to the country last time they were in power, how could we even think of voting for them again?
In 1932 the country swept out the do-nothing Republicans who sat on their hands and watched (“no bailouts for us!”) as the economy spiralled downward for 3 years after the Crash of 1929. No way voters were going to send them back to power in 1934.
Voters face far more distractions in today’s society than they did 75 years ago. Republicans are hoping voters overlook what happened last time on their watch, and Democrats can’t let them get away with it.
I was watching the Taitz race (honest!). It says something that 360some_k people voted for someone so obviously insane.
I was really watching ballot issues in CA though. The already ungovernable became more so: The top 2 passed by almost 60% and their attempt at passing their experiment (SecState public financing) in removing money from politics failed by about 60%.
At this point I don’t think it’s correct to say the Ds will have a “bad” year, but it won’t be the heady progress we’ve become used to.
Harry Reid is a very lucky guy, huh?
There’s a long way to go to November. A lot could happen in that time. For instance, if the jobs picture doesn’t look better it could be tough on the Democratic party. The real damage to the Gulf should be evident then, and Obama had better have a convincing narrative in place when it does. New terrorist attacks could occur or the wars in the Middle East take turns of fortune good or bad.
Reading the tea leaves is fine, but drink the tea first.
What is absolutely true if the Republicans wish to recover is that accountability must occur. To the extent that Republican policies are responsible for problems that must be acknowledged. More to the point whichever party has a sincere, practical and convincing means of addressing some of the issues facing the country (jobs, environment, economic future in a global economy, military threats, terrorism etc) will do very well. Admit the failures of the past, but point to a bright future works.
The Democrats will need to do this as well, though. No-one but those who vote D anyway believes that all the responsibility for the recession rests with Republicans. No-one but those who vote D anyway believes that the health care reform just passed is anything but corporate welfare for insurance. The only way Obama won and attained both houses of Congress is to capture some of those who don’t vote for your party every time.
Don’t get me wrong. From where I stand I sincerely believe the loss of Congress to the Republicans would be a good thing for the country. From where I stand repeal of much of what Obama had done would be a generational bonus for the US. The strident “Republicans are all evil corporate automatons who love war and are anti-science,’ will help those who add an R to their names. Please, keep it up.
Blanche Lincoln won by old-fasioned retaiil politics, aided by massive amounts of out-of-state money. It helped that her opponent suffered from a severe case of Short-Man Syndrome and the voters finally realized that. Now that Blanche is (politically) up to speed, I think that she will be reelected. Most of Arkansas is strongly Democratic.
It is also possible that Blanche’s recent contact with the cvvoters may make her a more progressive Senator. We can hope.
Key points:
– the anti-incumbent meme being pushed by the MSM is not supported by the data.
– the Big Red Wave™ meme being pushed by the MSM is not supported by the data.
– If congressional Dems continue to talk and work the terrible deficit and not the incredibly high unemployment issue, the 2nd dip of a double dip will likely hit around 2 November. If the Dems cannot figure out that the time to borrow and spend is now, they’ll deserve what they get.
RE 6
“If congressional Dems continue to talk and work the terrible deficit and not the incredibly high unemployment issue, the 2nd dip of a double dip will likely hit around 2 November. If the Dems cannot figure out that the time to borrow and spend is now”
That worked very well for Greece.
@6
Wingnut noise aside, I suspect most voters would be more impressed by extending unemployment benefits through the next fiscal year and a jobs bill than austerity measures and deficit reduction.
Besides one way to deal with the deficit is to grow GDP.
The one thing that is clear is that the Democratic Party appears to be holding steady, at least ideologically,
steady as she goes: U.S. hopes to share prison with Afghanistan
Allowing the U.S. to hold detainees at the prison at Bagram, known to the military as the Parwan detention facility, would give American interrogators an ability to question suspected terrorists directly, an approach considered more effective.
Human rights organizations are likely to view the creation of another detention facility outside the reach of U.S. law as a betrayal by the Obama administration.
The administration earned accolades from liberal groups after announcing steps to close Guantanamo early in the administration and end the Bush administration’s use of harsh interrogation tactics.
Since then, however, human rights organizations increasingly have criticized the White House for reviving military commissions and wavering over federal trials for the Sept. 11 masterminds.
http://www.latimes.com/news/po.....full.story
@7
In any number of ways the US isn’t Greece. They were borrowing money to pay the interest on their debt, their debt to GDP ratio is far higher, being part of the ECB means they have no option to monetize their debt. Tax evasion is rampant which means they can’t raise revenue. Their public sector is also a far larger portion of their economy than it is here.
But sure, keep hyping your Hooveresque policy prescriptions that will cause a worldwide depression, deflationary spiral, and untold human suffering.
Chris,
WW2 was a spoiler that forever clouds whether Hoover or FDR (or neither) was correct in economic prescriptions. Neither you nor anyone else can positively say whether in the absence of that event FDR policies would have been shown to be effective. Nor can I or anyone else show that they would have been disastrous.
So the whole Hoover/FDR thing is just a red herring, really. I know it is now accepted wisdom that that awful man was the saviour of the US. Doesn’t mean a rational person analysing the historical facts has to believe it.
By ‘monetize’ you mean depreciate the currency and pay the debt at an effectively lower rate? The problem is that this assumes a weaker US currency. But Obama is working day and night on that and lowering our bond rating, so you’ll get what you want, I guess. I hope you like it when you get it…
I thought you and the rest on the left thought tax evasion was rampant here, and that corporations and the rich didn’t pay taxes. I guess I misunderstood that.
The Dem’s will loose a few seats, but this looks like it will be a fairly status quo election to me. The Tea Baggers can win primaries, but not generals and will help a few Democrats get elected or re-elected.
The handful of relatively moderate Republicans, like Meg Whitman, should do well. But, it should be pointed out the politics of the Meg Whitman’s of the world are closer to mine than they are to the Tea Baggers.
re 4:
That’s never going to happen. Republicans have a bankrupt and pernicious philosophy whose only real purpose is to strengthen wealthy elites at everyone elses’ expense.
Democrats aren’t much better.
re 11: WW II WAS a government program, halfwit. It absolutely proves that the Keynesians were right.
Sorry, Goldy but the “bread and circuses” gambit ain’t working for Democrats anymore. Extending unemployment benefits just isn’t the same as creating private sector jobs. Obama’s mis-management (or should I say non-management)of the nation is but one telling aspect of the leftist downfall due in November.
“Dumb-as-a Carrot Patty Murray” may or may not be in for a fall in November but she’ll certainly know she’s been in a helluva fight. This administration and it’s sycophants don’t have a clue as to what the economy is all about because they essentially hate the American way of life and want to torpedo it.
@11 lostinaseaofblue on 06/09/2010 at 11:22 am
Which historical facts have you analyzed?
Here’s a current fact. The unemployment rate for April 2010 was 9.5%. This is an historically high rate of unemployment.
I believe that large increases in federal government spending that are monetized by the Fed and the banking system will result in a recovery in real economic activity. When that recovery sets in depends on how quickly the federal government increases its spending and by the magnitude of that increase. We can debate whether tax rates should be cut or federal spending should be increased. We can debate what kinds of spending should be increased. We can debate whether the federal government should increase any of its spending. But the facts of the 1930s appear to be pretty clear – monetized increased federal government spending does result in increased real economic activity in the short run.
RE 14
Well, yes. If you want to embroil the world in tragedy, destruction and death on that scale. To me the cure seems a tiny bit out of proportion to the illness, though.
Additionally no data exists on what would happen had expenditure on that scale continued indefinitely.
That’s what I meant by spoiler. It was an event no sane person wants to repeat and no politician can or should hope for.
Mike,
“I believe that large increases in federal government spending that are monetized by the Fed and the banking system will result in a recovery in real economic activity…”
Based on this? “But the facts of the 1930s appear to be pretty clear – monetized increased federal government spending does result in increased real economic activity in the short run.”
Well, but it’s the long run that comes and bites you in the rear. I think the phrase is ‘out of hte frying pan, into the fire.’ Nor is it altogether clear that any of your beliefs are accurate. The recent history of Western Europe should give you some clues at any rate.
@18 lostinaseaofblue on 06/09/2010 at 11:55 am,
Notice you avoided answering my question.
Also, “Well, but it’s the long run that comes and bites you in the rear.” – what are the facts to support your assertion; an assertion commonly held?
What was the GDP rate from 1940 to 1980?
What was the unemployment rate from 1940 to 1980?
and on, and on…
@15 “Dumb-as-a Carrot Patty Murray”
Shit-for-brains could post that 10,000 times and it still wouldn’t be true. What would still be true, though, is that shit-for-brains himself would still as dumb as a fucking carrot. He’s obviously packing a big load of Psych 101 horseshit.
Mike,
No, your question was answered in 11 and 17.
By the way, what are the facts that support your position that spending money one doesn’t have and paying it back on a depreciated currency (fraud, really) is an effective approach. See, you rely on assumptions that inform your opinions as much as I do. They just happen to be different assumptions refuted by 60 years of history in the Soviet Union, China and Europe.
@21: Lost
You are LOST. What a freekin’ hypocrite you are. the guy you supported turned the largest budget surplus in history into the largest deficit in history. Yet we heard not a peep from you.
If you want to start cutting – the defense budget is right there to cut. Over 60% of our expenditures. Where have you proposed that?
Only an idiot or a fool wants to keep a tight budget in a recession. You are both. When we get out of the recession we can talk about a tighter fiscal policy – not while we are in one – that is just plain stupid.
I suppose you want to go back to the gold standard – like Hoover and the idiots who caused and kept the great depression going.
For a fool with a huge ego, you sure know little to nothing about history.
That the major reason the D’s can hold power is because the R’s are going ultra right, and not because of any kind of reversal of the general rightward direction of Our Government is pretty fucking sad, IMO. Also, it is dangerous, as it promotes a sort of complacency amongst liberals.
“That worked very well for Greece.”
Proverbial apples and oranges. Our situation is nothing like Greece. They do not control their own currency. We do.
Re 22
I wrote often and early that Bush shouldn’t have bailed out the banks and that the war in Iraq was an error. Try knowing your facts before calling people hypocrites.
I don’t recall a discussion about defense budgets in which I was engaged, so naturally have spoken little about it. Where waste and mismanagement occur, obviously it needs halted. Where the strategic goals of the US can be attained at lower cost obviously that should be done.
We won’t ever ‘go back to’ the gold standard. That genie is out of the bottle. But we never should have gone off of it.
You have a short term view of economic policy. I have one that looks 20 or 40 years out. We can, I suppose, agree that we won’t agree, or you can keep throwing insults around. Your choice.
Re 24
Back to monetized debt repayment then? So what happens to the depreciated US dollar and our lower credit rating after 10 years? 20? What does the role of the US look like in the world when we’ve become a 2nd rate power on the basis of these policies?
Sometimes government is about now. The oil spill in the Gulf is now and needs dealt with now.
Sometimes responsible government is about the next generation, and the ones after that. Sometimes it about having the courage to tell voters this, rather than pander to their fear and desire for immediate gratification.
Headless @ 14: Correct. The government as the monopoly issuer of currency can purchase anything the private economy is able to produce. The only restriction is the actual productive resources available (real output). There is no doubt that if the war had lasted a “long time” that we as a society could have maintained that arrangement more or less indefinitely, although the price controls and rationing were a bit restrictive.
To think otherwise strikes me as unpatriotic, eh?
The war wall followed by the biggest and most sustained boom in our history.
re 17: I think that the building of freeways and infrastucture under the Eisenhower guise of ‘defense spending’ (the only real expenditures that the idiots whose spawn you are would countenance) proves otherwise.
re 17: Hint — Blathering as if you were Bill Buckley, Jr. doesn’t masquerade the fact that you don’t know your ass from your elbow.
Touch the fatty cheeks behind your penis. That’s your ass. Touch the bony protuberance at the back of your arm (about midway). That’s your elbow. Practice that until you can do it without thinking.
You already seem to have mastered this trait with your writing.
LostyHorizons:
“Back to monetized debt repayment then?”
Repayment of public debt is a mere accounting entry.
“So what happens to the depreciated US dollar(?)”
That depends. If the dollar is freely tradable against other currencies, it goes up and down. Our currency “depreciates” for other reasons that are not necessarily tied to “how much money has been printed recently”. Further, we have had low grade (sometimes higher grade) inflation for 60+ years. Somehow, we have lived with it, why, I’d argue, even prospered.
“…and our lower credit rating after 10 years? 20?”
Who are these creditors? Are they going to stamp their tiny feet and sell all their treasuries? What do they get when they sell? They get dollars. If the dollar goes down, that encourages our domestic industry by increasing our exports. The private market does not determine the creditworthiness of the U.S. government.
“What does the role of the US look like in the world when we’ve become a 2nd rate power on the basis of these policies?”
You do not show a link between your financial misconceptions and real output. Real output determines our status as a world power, not the “soundness” of our currency.
“Sometimes responsible government is about the next generation.”
Assuming the deficit hysteria fetal position does real harm to future generations:
1. Increased unemployment–i.e., forgone production. This means a smaller economic base to promote future output.
2. Wasted resources. The current costs of unemployment are quite high–in personal as well as macroeconomic terms. There is no need to impose these costs to make bondholders happy.
3. Less economic activity means less current investment….which has obvious impications for our ability to produce in the future.
The current deficit hysteria is simply class warefare disguised as “financial responsibility”. It seeks to promote recovery on the backs of the poor and the middle class.
That song, and especially the singer (the actress who played the singer, actually), were awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcLazPauA1c
“Repayment of public debt is a mere accounting entry.”
And this is in a nutshell the problem with liberal thought.
Goldy inadvertently put it best, ‘there’s got to a be a morning after.’ The big government, borrowed money party can go on only so long, and then someone has to pay the money behind those ‘mere accounting entries.’
What happens when China goes off the dollar as a reserve currency on the basis of our fiscal irresponsibility? When petroleum is traded in Euros? See, real world actions have real world consequences, no matter how much you wish to ignore them.
The policies you and those in the Obama administration advance are the road to financial ruin for the US. You can pretend that if the government does it, it’s okay until the cows come home. The piper must and will be paid.
Proud,
BTW, our creditors are China and to a lesser degree, Europe. This is why we can’t for instance force China to rationalize their currency, which should be near parity with the dollar. This alone would do wonders for our trade deficit. It is why we can’t impose and enforce tariffs on imports to the US. It is why we can’t do much about the rampant industrial piracy in China.
Still think living on borrowed money a good idea?
Proud,
Post 26 is a hoot. So we can continue to print worthless money to buy real product from people who must pay labor, materials etc for ever? Really? You actually believe this? This might have been true, on the gold standard with real value behind the paper money. It isn’t now.
BTW, our creditors are China and to a lesser degree, Europe. This is why we can’t for instance force China to rationalize their currency, which should be near parity with the dollar. This alone would do wonders for our trade deficit. It is why we can’t impose and enforce tariffs on imports to the US. It is why we can’t do much about the rampant industrial piracy in China.
Still think living on borrowed money a good idea?
“No doubt this is going to be a very bad year for Democrats …”
A puny price to pay for health care reform.
@35 lostinaseaofblue spews: on 06/09/2010 at 1:16 pm
“Still think living on borrowed money a good idea?”
You don’t define living, but let’s focus on determining when to borrow money is a good idea.
When the GDP Growth Rate is 3% and the cost of money is 3.x% it is a good idea to borrow money to invest.
Think I’m wrong? Take a look at Goldman Sachs earnings in 2009.
When the above two values are what they are, and unemployment is above 9% it is good idea politically to do the smart financial thing.
Don’t expect you get it. Sux 2 B U.
Poseidon Adventure? Man, that was a bad movie even for 9 year olds. Give me Apollo 13- and the line “this is going to be our finest hour”. The other side thinks they can put in people that make Goldwater look like a dangerous leftist, and when November comes around even lackluster Democrats (too many of those) will find themselves on the winning team. this time in 2006 no one in the press was saying that the House would change Speakers, never mind the Senate. The trolls will be calling it theft, but come November too many people will decide that crazy doesn’t work for them.
@35 But, but, but…, the last administration said deficits don’t mean shit, Lost! Let’s get this straight. When Republicans run up record deficits, it don’t mean squat and we hear absolutely nothing from teabaggers. A democrat runs a deficit and it’s the end of America as we know it, commie-fascism has arrived, and so teabaggers are in a patriotic fervor to start a revolution to put “deficits don’t mean shit” Republicans back in charge.
Got stuff to do so one last riposte, and I’ll see you folks later-
Rabbit, good that you’re back. I hope the absence wasn’t occasioned by health issues.
“Don’t expect you get it. Sux 2 B U.” At times is does Sux 2 B me. The fate of any human being I suppose. But not, I think, today. I’m doing pretty well because I don’t borrow money. I own my houses, don’t owe credit card or other consumer debt and own my cars. It works for me. It works for millions of other people who understand that options are power and owing someone money reduces your options. It might not be tricky and full of phrases requiring an MBA to translate and justify. But it works.
Steve,
I can’t, as I’ve repeatedly said, speak to Tea Party movement objections to deficits. I can speak for myself only.
I can say that I’ve often said one component of Bush standing as a mediocre president was his fiscal policy of ignoring debt.
Next question?
“Give me Apollo 13- and the line “this is going to be our finest hour”.”
I just saw that again the other day and that Ed Harris line is indeed killer. So was Tom Hanks and his, we may be about to die but “it’s been a privilege flying with you” line before the capsule re-entered earth’s atmosphere. Great movie.
Steve,
Sorry, no next question. I do work for myself, but still occasionally have time based obligations. Have a nice day.
# 38: “Poseidon Adventure? Man, that was a bad movie even for 9 year olds….”
I was a teenager when Poseidon adventure came out. I went to the drive-in one summer at least fifteen times where the movie was playing. I never saw more than five minutes of the movie. And I didn’t miss it one bit. ;-)
LostHorizon @ 33: “What happens when China goes off the dollar as a reserve currency on the basis of our fiscal irresponsibility? When petroleum is traded in Euros?”
China is artificially keeping the value of its currency low to promote exports and economic growth. It seems to be working for them. You, on the other hand, seem to think that a high dollar is “good for us”. How so? A high dollar cripples our export industries and impacts our current trade deficit. What price are you willing to have our economy pay, Losty, just so you can crow about our “high dollar”?
In a system of freely tradable currencies, it doesn’t much matter what petroleum is “priced in”.
It appears that you’re agreeing that the teapartiers are hypocrites on deficit spending, Lost. That’d be a reality-based move if that’s what you’re doing.
# 42: Regarding Apollo 13: My dad was an engineer of that era, so I identified with the Tom Hanks character (they even looked a bit alike, and were about the same age at that time). I really got a kick out of the short-sleeve dress shirts, pocket protectors, and the guys all pulling out their slide rules – a wonderfully accurate attention to detail.
Electronic desktop calculators were still about five years away, I can remember when they showed up at my college bookstore – Texas Instrument models for about $100 (which was my food budget for the quarter).
@40 lostinaseaofblue on 06/09/2010 at 1:53 pm,
“I’m doing pretty well because I don’t borrow money.”
Nice to hear, but irrelevant to the point. Didn’t expect you could get it.
@33 & @34
My god lost, you are such a fucking moron. Please go study some Macroeconomics before you start spouting off.
First the debt/deficit situation with the US is NOT anything like that of Greece, there is a long way to go both with the annual deficit and with the overall level of debt before it is.
Furthermore the US has far more room to raise taxes and cut discretionary spending such as defense than Greece does. Beyond that gradually raising the age one is eligible for Social Security and Medicare should it become necessary is unlikely to cause the sort of riots seen in Greece.
Even if our currency devalues in the long run it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It makes our exports all that much cheaper (note that we are one of the largest exporters). Besides with all of the problems in Europe and Japan there doesn’t seem to be a big rush to replace dollars with euros or yen. Treasury securities will continue to be a solid investment as long as they are backed by one of the worlds largest and most developed economies.
Frankly I really don’t get why the deficit hawks fail to see that it might be a good idea to accept somewhat larger deficits now in exchange for greater GDP growth in the long term. Instead they give a prescription for a deflationary spiral and a shrinking GDP. This is great if you are a bondholder but in terms of overall economic health it sucks for everyone else.
“Still think living on borrowed money a good idea?”
Why yes. I own a house and pay a mortgage. It’s not the end of the world.
A government that issues its own fiat currency and lets that currency float freely in world currency markets is not financially constrained.
The constraints are political, not financial. I will not be swayed by your political argument based on faulty financial reasoning.
You share a widespread and common ignorance of how fiat currency systems work…an ignorance shared even by many progressives. It is an ignorance born of 50 years of unending and self justifying neo-liberal economic dogma, the same dogma that Bill Clinton and the DNC bought into lock, stock, and barrel.
@49 Chris Stefan wins the prize with
“great if you are a bondholder”. :-D
For those of you who understand and want to know more, go find out what happened to the personal wealth of former Sec of the Treasury and wealthy banker during the depression.
And for those of you who don’t want to know… go find a good bond broker.
LostHorizon: “So we can continue to print worthless money to buy real product from people who must pay labor, materials etc for ever?”
If it is so worthless, I will swing by your house and take it off your hands. No charge. It must be a real burden to you, and possibly a fire hazard.
“Really?”
Yes.
“You actually believe this?”
Sorry. Cheap rhetorical questions do not constitute an argument.”
“This might have been true, on the gold standard with real value behind the paper money.”
Gold has no “real” value. It only has the value we give it. The gold standard was a miserable flop. Going back to it would be an economic disaster.
Goldy spews–
My, what a defeatist attitude!
Your Northwest Division of Lunatic Moonbats here at HA apparently haven’t gotten the message from their fearful leader!
What is the antidote to denial Kook-Aid??
1. 42-year Seattle Voter spews:
That is a fool’s approach.
A guaranteed way to lose an election…blame some guy from 2 years ago when the Democrats controlled Congress. The House & Senate write the Laws. Bush actually negotiated less spending you idiot. If the Democrat’s had their way, we’d have a $16 TRILLION Deficit today…instead of the $13 TRILLION>
Now matter how you whine & spin…the buck will stop with the Democrats in 2010 & 2012.
They own the economy.
They own Afghanistan where their were 10 deaths 2 days ago (7 Americans) and 5 more Americans yesterday.
They own ObaMao care which 58% want to repeal.
Grow up & wise up.
Greece is on the Euro. When their economy collapsed (like just about everybody else’s), their government deficits exploded (loss of tax revenue). To make up the difference they could not print money. They could not embark on a program of fiscal stimulus (i.e., spending) without borrowing the Euros. Now they can’t pay them back. They do not control their own currency.
If they did, they could issue debt or increase spending to stimulate domestic demand. They could devalue their currency to improve their exports (you know, jobs, production, income….REAL FUCKING STUFF!!!). As a member of the Eurozone, they can’t.
Argentina got off the dollar peg (another insane neo-liberal economic straight jacket) a decade ago. They told the internation bondholding community to stick it up their ass.
They came out of it just fine. Their bonds are bought and sold on international markets. Somehow the bondholders got over it, too.
Only the extreme right wing teabaggers believe their bullshit about record deficits and the economy being the Democrats fault.
Liberals, left leaning voters, swing voters and some right leaning voters are NOT about to put the Republican Party back in charge of America’s purse strings and the economy. I mean while they were out of power what were they doing? Spending lavish amounts of money at Lesbian Bondage themed night clubs. Not too bright when you’re trying to convince the swing vote group your the “responsible adults” with the People’s money.
Threes not 50% + 1 in the electorate right now to give the control of either house of congress back to the right wing nut jobs.
Drill, Baby, Drill – that’s right wing nut job speak. By the fall elections the aforementioned group of voters are going to realize that following the ideology or Reagan Republicans has effectively put an end to their way of life along the Redneck Riviera.
The economy is not going to “bounce” back by fall, but the realization that it is clawing it’s way back from the financial disaster/crisis created by Reagan Republicans is still fresh in these people’s minds. Sure they are not “happy” with the progress, but NONE of them want to go back to the source of the problem the created their misery in the first place.
Classic Democratic pessimistic; we’re doomed!
Instead of forcefully making the case why Democrats should/will remain in power they always feed fuel to the Fox News bullshit by being so compliant with historical trends instead of the facts?
It will take a miracle for Republicans to overcome Democratic hegemony.
Especially with all the cheating we do at the polls. Right?
Acorn’s work is done. We have 11,000,000 illegals registered to vote — and the ballot’s in Spanish
@24
“we control our own currency”
We do? Are you really sure about that?
You might want to think a little harder on that one.
Ass Klown @ 54 wrote:
First of all, Ass Klown, you cry babies were still talking about the “Clinton recession” Bush inherited all the into this Reagan Republican created financial disaster.
Second, had we followed Bill Clinton and the Democrats we’d be a DEBT FREE nation by now.
But Nooooooooooooooooooo Bush and the Reagan Republicans ramrodded the Bush tax cuts using **gasp** reconciliation just months into his presidency.
Remember?
Then, Bush didn’t fund two wars or Medicare Part D, hundreds of billions of dollars in give-always to Big Oil, deregulated Big Oil, Wall Street, and just about everything else and borrowed or squandered every single dime of the national debt that President Obama inherited. Including the $1.3 trillion dollar deficit going into Obama’s first year (it was Bush’s budgets ass wipe). On top of that Bush used all kinds of “off book” accounting schemes to hide the amount of money he and Republicans were borrowing from China. Had he been the CEO of a public company he would’ve gone to jail using the schemes.
And, yet, you continue to support politicians who promote those policies.
Country First??? Yeah, sure. Just not America.
Lincoln and the machine Democrats went scorched-earth in Arkansas, unexpectedly closing polls and lying about which polls were open. Even so she nearly lost. I don’t think that is a strong showing for an incumbent.
How the fuck anybody can be dumb enough to compare the U.S. to Greece is beyond me. Here’s a hint, fuckwads: the markets don’t make that comparison.
They don’t even come close.
If Greece could borrow at rates remotely approaching what the U.S. Treasury can borrow at they could have easily refinanced their debt (just as they have many times in the past) and kept rolling along. For a while anyway.
Bond holders are begging to lend money to the U.S. Treasury right now. How the fuck does that compare to Greece? Angry fucking ‘baggers living off their pension and S.S. checks may not care. But too many of the folks who are expected to fuel productivity to fund those checks are out of work. They need to be put back to work right away.
Or we will get the second drop. And your pension fund will go banko.
“Acorn’s work is done. We have 11,000,000 illegals registered to vote — and the ballot’s in Spanish”
heh- The illegal brown horde is headed to the polls. They can’t be stopped! Even the most moderate Republicans are freaking out and turning into krazy teabaggers. heh- Our evil plan to turn America into a commie-fascist state is working!
@62
Don’t forget the anchor babies, they’ll eat the country out from the inside! Repeal the 14th amendment now!
heh- They don’t know that our plan is to let Texas actually buy all those textbooks before we ban them and replace them all with the Little Red Book and Mein Kamph! Hah! Forward, comrades! To victory!
Little brown commie-fascist anchor babies. heh- Everything is falling into place, comrades. We cannot be stopped!
Clint Didier is going to stop the anchor babies and save America for the real Americans.
The teabaggers fail to patrol the northern border at their peril. When victory is ours, comrades, the rustbelt will be speaking French and Seattle will have NHL hockey! To victory!!
me @24: we control our own currency
Infantile riposte @ 58: “We do? Are you really sure about that? You might want to think a little harder on that one”.
OK dipthong. Who do you think controls our currency? The joos? The Illuminati? The Bush clan and the Trilateral Commission? The Queen of England (for you LaRouchies out there)? Who?
Spit it out. Oh that’s right. You don’t have a fucking clue.
Despicable.
Let’s make sure we achkowledge some manifest evil, shall we?
At the root of completelylost, et al’s “arguments” is an unspoken assumption that some of our fellow citizens are expendable; must become homeless, suffer, die, etc. for the naked greed that purports to be ideology.
This despite the context of the worst economy since the depression and the evident carnage all around us.
These people have literally broke the world and they have learned nothing; they see nothing.
To them, it’s just the “natural order” of things.
Freedom!
Freedom to murder by spread sheet.
Freedom to shiver in the cold and starve to death.
They will never admit this, of course.
But we should never fail to point it out.
@35: Get a grip, LostHorizon. We cannot “force” China to revalue their currency because they have made a conscious political decision to keep it artificially low, and they are a sovereign nation.
You appear to argue that terrible things will happen if they suddenly decide to dump their t-bills on the open market, and that it is this “fear” that “keeps us from doing something”. Your fear is as misplaced as your reasoning is facile.
There are antidotes to economic lunacy. It’s called knowledge. I recommend this article (for a start) about the implications of China acquiring large foreign currency reserves:
http://mpettis.com/2010/02/wha.....-reserves/
The basic Friedmanian ecnomic assumption is that man is economically rational. That assumption is false. Man primarily wishes to possess superiority within the social realm.
From racist rednecks to Thurston Howell III and Lovey, the battle is to hold and maintain a position of social superiority and the presumed power that goes with it — even to the extent of industrialists impoverishing their potential customers to racists refusing to form alliances with the very groups that can help them attain the goal of economic betterment for each group.
That’s why we registered the 11,000,000 illegals to vote.
Buenos dias, Republicanos!
When we play to their paranoia, even they can see how ludicrous their beliefs are —– or,shoud I say????—-‘LUDICROSO’????
JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!JA! JA!
Proud,
For a start, I never argued we could force China to do anything. We would however have considerably more leverage if they didn’t hold an economic sword of Damocles over us though. It’s pretty hard and very unconvincing to threaten the mobster to whom you owe money.
In general, pretending borrowed money is a good thing is just counter-intuitive. My grandfather always told me that if a thing sounded like a lie, it probably was. Macroeconomics is just a way for progressives, in this context, to justify selling the future of the US for short term transitory gains. I can find a host of educated fools to support your conclusions, but if an educated fool tells me the sky is a lovely shade of mauve, or that global warming is occuring because of a less than 1 degree rise over a century based on an historically cold period in the early 1900’s I don’t have to believe the fool in the face of hard commmon sense.
Zotz,
Putting words in someones’ mouth to counter the argument you just invented is not particularly effective.
Yes, I do say that the consequences of choice must be borne by the individual. This doesn’t mean I’m ‘murdering someone by spreadsheet’ or anything like it. Should someone choose to jump off a cliff it doesn’t mean I pushed them.
The government can’t and shouldn’t accept responsibility for every citizens poor choices. Nor have they the moral right or Constitutional one to expropriate the gains from their good ones.
re 73:
Like you’ll live forever if you believe in Jesus?
Lucy,
In a way I feel sorry for you.
In your world corporations are out to enslave you. In your world the government is a malign conspiracy with these corporations. In your world men have no control over their destiny. It’s all chemical and if it doesn’t compute in a lab or a mathematical formula or some dark conspiracy it doesn’t exist.
How the heck do you get up in the morning with that kind of dark thinking?
@73: You deny that the laws of probability are counterintuitive? They are. Does that make them a lie?
You are being ludicrous. You are grasping at straws. You are simply bloviating.
Do tell us what would happen if the Chinese ‘dumped’ their treasuries on the open market. I’ll tell what would happen…it would probably hurt them way way more than us.
The fed has inflated its balance sheet by a couple of trillion by taking dodgy bank assets as collateral at face value and pumping up bank reserves. Where is the inflation? 30 year treasuries are selling at a very high price at low coupon rates–do you believe the market or don’t you? It is telling us that inflation is not on the near horizon. Also, under most market conditions, selling high is a good thing. Why shouldn’t we take advantage of that?
Give that some thought. For once.
The evidence for accelerated global climate change due to human carbon emissions is overwhelming. So you would simply ignore the evidence. This is very unlike you. On other issues(terrorism, abortion) conservatives pull out the “one percent doctrine” as readily as Casanova pulled his pecker out of his pants.
“How the heck do you get up in the morning with that kind of dark thinking?”
You, on the other hand, wake each morning knowing full well that our society is embarked on a dark journey of unforgivable socially and politically sanctioned infanticide…and you are a full tax paying member of that society. My god…the bloody stench of your guilt must make you break out in a cold sweat every night as you awaken screaming in anguish.
Or not.
Your soi disant pity is, well, pitiful.
@73
Well if you are going to reject the entire field of macroeconomics (including I might add the work of Milton Friedman) then I suppose it just isn’t worth having a conversation with you.
For that matter if you don’t understand how debt works you should probably stay away from anything involving finance.