Seattle City Council members are being lobbied hard by a group of immigrant and minority small business owners—mostly Asian—fighting to weaken the city’s proposed $15 minimum wage ordinance. So I just thought I’d take a moment to drill down to the core of their argument and remind council members that there is nothing particularly noble nor rational about defending the rights of immigrant business owners to pay poverty wages to immigrant workers.
And that’s basically what these immigrant business owners are demanding.
I suppose somewhere in the ID there might be a white suburban teenager busing tables or washing dishes or stocking shelves, but we all know that’s not the workforce we’re talking about here. Whereas minimum wage workers in general are disproportionately people of color, minimum wage workers at immigrant owned small businesses are almost entirely so. Thus any concession we make to immigrant business owners largely comes at the expense of their immigrant workers.
Yes, I know, this is a nation that was largely built on the backs of cheap immigrant (and slave) labor. And many of these immigrant business owners worked crappy, poverty-wage jobs themselves when they first came to this country. They were exploited when they first arrived, and now it’s their turn to do the exploiting. It’s the American way. Hooray!
But that doesn’t make it right.
Besides, the same economic arguments that apply to other businesses apply to immigrant owned ones as well. The personal stories of the owners may be more compelling than that of the guys my ex-colleagues at The Stranger have pimped for, but the economics are no different. Some immigrant owned businesses might struggle to pay their workers $15 an hour. Some might lay off workers. Some might move out of the city. Some might close up shop. But most will figure out a way to adjust and to thrive. Because that’s the American way too.
Nicely stated! Goldy.
yes, the ‘immigrant’ business owners are a strident force with which the council must contend, (god help us if they ever get properly connected with the walmart anti-union vast moneyed interests)
The plain question i always want to hear these folks asked: “do you think any minimum wage regulation is acceptable?” (if they say ‘no’ then the rest of the interview is rather pointless) But if they say ‘yes ..but’ then the savvy reporter could ask them about when the last time the minimum wage was established, and then “what would that minimum wage be in today’s dollars?”
Goldy do you know what the poverty level actually is when you say “poverty wages”? Washington states minimum wage surpasses the poverty level for a household of 2, and just comes under poverty level for family of 3. So what is the poverty wage level when you keep refering to “poverty wages” is it for a family 3 or a family of 4? Or is it based on the individual? Should the minimum wage be paid based on need?
Seems like it would be more accurate if you stated a living wage rather than a poverty wage.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/14poverty.cfm
@2 Aren’t you comparing Washington wages with Arkansas living costs?
What they’re really saying is the ID should be a free wage zone.
@3 Rabbitt, I am not talking about “living costs” or even a “living wage”. I am talking about wages that are below poverty level-aka “poverty wages”. Had Goldy said living wage instead of poverty wages then he would have been accurate, but it doesn’t sound as flashy when trying to demonize the other side. What bothers me about both sides of this argument is the disingenuousness and hypocrisy on both sides. Examples such as….
-Raising the minimum wage isn’t going to be the economic apocalypse that the business sides pretends it is. Businesses that say it is a 60% payroll increase are full of sh*t, unless of course they only pay minimum wage.
-Nick Hanauer should STFU in his advocacy for $15/hr. His companies factories are out of state where he pays an avg of $11/hr. Which means that if that is an avg, many employees make even less than $11/hr. He could change this with one phone call, but instead he advocates for others to do what he will not do himself.
-$15 NOW’s most recent ballot initiative has a total comp waiver for Local Untie 18, the hospitality workers at the Hyatt & Marriott (huge f’ing corporations!!). But $15 NOW decries even more beneficial total comp packages for local companies like Tom Douglass & Dicks Restaurants.
@5 There should be a clean $15 minimum wage ordinance, with no tip adjustments, no 10-year delays, no exceptions for this or that group.
$15 would be the highest minimum wage in the nation, but Seattle is a high cost-of-living city. A six-figure household income is the norm here, so businesses could easily pass along the increased labor cost to customers by raising prices. This city is awash with money.
With rents here starting at about $1200, someone working 40 hours for $15 would spend half his/her before-tax income on rent alone. Those sky-high rents are here right now. Workers can’t wait 5, 7, or 10 years for a $15 wage.
Just because I own my burrow debt-free doesn’t mean I can live in it free. I still have to pay taxes, utilities, and insurance. Those items add up to about $750/mo. on my digs. Add routine maintenance (annual furnace service, replacing appliances as they wear out, roofing every 25 years, yard upkeep, etc.) and you’ve easily got $1200/mo. of housing expense, even without a mortgage.
Of course, I’m not working for $15/hr., either. I’m a capitalist, so I don’t work at all; I get paid for not working. We’re a six-figure-income household, so our $1200/mo. burrow expense isn’t a strain on us.
There’s no getting away from Seattle’s high cost-of-living. If you’re a low-income worker, you have two basic choices: Get a raise, or move elsewhere. This city’s legions of rich rabbits can’t expect the service humans who wait on them to work for less than it costs to live here.
Gimme, more, more, more….
Hmmm, it turns out that countries with the biggest “welfare states” and the highest taxes also have the highest employment rates. So much for the argument that high taxes and government benefits destroy work incentives.
http://seekingalpha.com/articl.....king?ifp=0
@8 The One Percent Anthem …
Why is it okay for a millionaire to want to become a billionaire, but it’s not okay for a $9.32/hr. worker to want to become a $15/hr. worker?
“A six-figure household income is the norm here”
Uhhhhhh…
@ 6 Rabbit, I agree that there should be one minimum wage for all, no exceptions. I also agree it should be raised, I just disagree about the amount. I would like to see it brought in line with when it was at highest purchasing power which in today’s dollars would be $10.86, and indexed to inflation thereafter, so it would always be equal to it’s highest purchasing power.
I don’t think Seattle is awash in money the way you think it is. Last year the median income in Seattle was $70,365, which is a lot. But significantly less than you 6 figure norm, did you just make this “fact” up?
Also I disagree that everyone is entitled to live downtown where the rents are sky high. I actually own two Seattle businesses, and am looking to moving to Shoreline to be able to afford a place big enough for my family of 3. If I can’t afford to live in Queen Anne, Capital Hill, Ballard, Magnolia, Fremont, etc, why is it their right that my employees be able to afford it & not have to commute? Of the 2 businesses, 1 will withstand this fine as it is well established with a regular clientele. The 2nd business is new and still building a customer base. Would this 2nd newer business that is still getting it’s feet under it be able to absorb the 24% increase in labor $15/hr would cause? Maybe, maybe not, it all depends on if the customers will be willing to pay about 10% higher prices. But since it is not profitable yet if it doesn’t there is no cost to me (in fact I wouldn’t have to work 6 days a week anymore), but 16 people who are earning a decent living would be out of job.
@13 If the Seattle median income is $70k, which sounds about right, then two median income earners married to each other are earning a household income of $140k.
Getting to a six-figure income in this city isn’t that hard. The average Boeing worker makes $70k-$80k.
Seattle is a regional medical center, a regional banking center, a regional legal center, a regional port, the homeport of the Alaska commercial fishing fleet, the host city of three universities, and so on.
This city has a huge number of doctors, lawyers, bankers, university professors, aerospace and software engineers, etc. We have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of households earning six figures.
All you need to get to a six-figure income is two $50,000 incomes, or a $60,000 income + a $40,000 income, or a $70,000 income + a $30,000 income. You’d be surprised how many teachers live in million-dollar homes in this town. All they have to do is marry a doctor, lawyer, or software engineer.
@13 “Also I disagree that everyone is entitled to live downtown where the rents are sky high.”
Based on my conversations with real estate agents and people looking for rentals recently, it’s difficult to find $1200/mo. rent anywhere between Tacoma and Everett.
Anyone have any ideas on how to get a 34-year-old out of the house? Do they ever become self-sufficient?
@ 14 Rabitt, that was the median household income. Here is a link breaking income distribution in Seattle down for you. That way next time you won’t have to use made up numbers that you pulled out of your a**. 31.5% of households have an income over 100,000k, and this is for all earners. Here is another fun stat for you 1 in 5 individual Seattle Gov’t workers make over $100,000 all by themselves. Maybe they should be asked to take a pay cut to help bridge the $100 million gap in social services that $15/hr is going to cause to maintain the same level of service to the poor, addicted, and homeless?
http://www.city-data.com/incom.....ngton.html
here is the one about gov’ workers, it is from 2011, but considering the rapid increase of 100k + city workers I would imagine the number is now higher than 1 in 5 making over 100k.
http://seattletimes.com/html/l.....es18m.html
@ 15 why don’t you actually look at rent prices rather than go on hearsay from people you know before using it as an argument to prove your point. You clearly make up numbers and don’t actually check them. Your arguments would be a lot more convincing if you had, you know, facts and not just ideology.
Wow, look at all the 2 bedroom places I was able to find with 255 2 bedroom places for rent with just a few seconds on Craiglist. Maybe you should let your real estate folks and friends looking for housing know about Craiglist?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/.....bedrooms=2
Seattle’s median income doesn’t really mean anything in reality. That simply means that there are as many people earning over $70K/yr as those earning less than $70K/yr. Considering the fact that there are a lot of rich people in Seattle and a lot of poor people but not many middle-income people left, there are no conclusions to be drawn from a median income.
@ 19 the only thing I was using the median income for was to dispute the claim that 6 figure income were the norm for Seattle. I agree the middle class is dwindling and that it needs to be strengthened. Sadly though the middle class will be negativley impacted by $15/hr. It will be a pay decrease in purchasing power for the middle class do to increased inflation. Maybe the discussion shouldn’t be about a minimum wage, but a maximum wage? Keeping the highest compensated in any orginization directly related to the lealeast compensated, so a raise at the top also means a raose for everyone.
The stupid never stop piling it on…
“Sadly though the middle class will be negativley impacted by $15/hr. It will be a pay decrease in purchasing power for the middle class do to increased inflation.”
@20 Yes, it will cause wages to increase across the board and we all know that the rich/elite think that is “inflation”. If you/they had listened during your/their Intro To Economics class, you would know that “Inflation is too many dollars chasing too few goods”. If the Fed printing oodles of dollar bills hasn’t caused inflation, it is a good signal that there is plenty of slack in the system. And don’t say that food prices rising is a sign that inflation would be worse with raises, the poor are already eating, given that they are still alive.
With our economic engine still running at a sub par level, we could do with every penny we can get going back into the local system. Instead of being shipped offshore and doing nothing for our economy.
@ Phil maybe you should understand the definition of a word before calling someone stupid. Here let me help you
Inflation-“The rate at which the general level of prices for goods and services is rising, and, subsequently, purchasing power is falling.”
Inflation Explained-“As inflation rises, every dollar will buy a smaller percentage of a good. For example, if the inflation rate is 2%, then a $1 pack of gum will cost $1.02 in a year.”
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp
Now there are many causes for inflation, one if which is as you state “too many dollars chasing too few goods”, which is true. Another cause of inflation is increased production or labor costs necessitating the raising the cost on prices & services as per the definition of inflation. For example gas prices rise & grocery, mercantile, or any other good that gets shipped prices go up in order to offset the increased shipping costs-aka inflation that has nothing to do with “too many dollars”.
It really stuns me that you would call someone stupid while demonstrating such a clear lack of understanding yourself, but that is typical of ideologues on both sides of this argument.
@22 I already covered all your standard elite/rich suckup bullet points in my response above.
You should actually read it.
@23, Phil you clearly don’t know what inflation means. You would rather than insult than make any points supported by facts, and as such you already lost the debate. Typical ideologue, kind of like a bizzarro Tea Party. All bluster and emotional attacks lacking substance.
I suppose if we’re going to have a higher minimum wage it should apply across the board, after phase-ins.
Still, this piece bothered me.
Yesterday I was downtown and bought the current Real Change. On page 5 there’s a piece on a City program for immigrants and refugees. One data point in that piece:
Between 2007-13, 3,951 immigrant-owned businesses opened in the Rainier Valley. During that same period, 2,699 of them closed.
One might call that a 2/3 failure rate. For those that remain, this new and substantially higher minimum wage will make it tougher for them.
It might not be long now before Costco begins offering banh mi. Goldy might not even have to cough up that extra 50 cents to get one, as long as he’s willing to buy eight at a time.
Great to see immigrants and immigrant advocates joining in the debate. Just FYI, the debate is diverse. OneAmerica, for example, supports a $15 wage, and has been involved in the fight for years, including helping get immigrant workers at SeaTac involved in the campaign.