Open thread

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5QaIRZuf1I[/youtube]

Comments

  1. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The government had death panels when I was young, except they called them Selective Service Boards then, and Republicans thought they were a great idea.

  2. 7

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog–
    The Military Selective Service Act of 1967 expanded the ages of conscription to the ages of 18 to 35.

    Wasn’t Lyndon Johnson (Democrat) the President when the ages were expanded?
    Just thought I’d remind you.

  3. 8

    Mike Hunt spews:

    These cartoons are the type of thing I used to splice between porn on my hour-long public access program. Cool, man. Thanks.

  4. 9

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Obama the Job Killer!!

    A provision in President Obama’s health care reform plan that requires businesses to offer health insurance to their workers or face a federal tax would cost employers at least $49 billion dollars a year, putting 5.2 million employees at risk of unemployment or underemployment.

    Under the provision, known as the play-or-pay mandate, another 10.2 million employees will face stunted wages and the loss of their benefits as employers try to find ways to fund the mandates.

  5. 10

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    GO FRANCE!!

    Just in from Fox–


    A United Nations official in a department that promotes “ethics, transparency and accountability” falsified his permanent address to illegally obtain what could amount to tens of thousands of dollars in family allowance and housing funds that normally go to poor and moderate-income citizens in his native France, according to investigators there.

    The fraud findings against Bruno Bastet, 40, are contained in an investigation report issued on May 20 by France’s Caisse d’Allocations Familiales (CAF), a branch of the French social security system that calls itself “one of the pivots of the French ‘social model’” — in other words, a centerpiece of the French welfare state.

    Here is the link to the whole story–

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0.....latestnews

    Oui! Oui!!
    This will be America in a couple of years.
    Leftists raiding the Treasury..
    Oops, it’s already started.

  6. 11

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Puddy recently read the late Senator Kennedy received exceptional brain tumor health care from Duke University and Mass Gen Hospital. Will the average feral dumb bunny receive the same treatment options under “the messiah”care package?

  7. 12

    SeattleJew's Sockpuppet spews:

    @10 Puddy

    FWIW

    Both Duke and MGH are federally funded research hospitals, so the answer was and is yes.

  8. 13

    SeattleJew's Sockpuppet spews:

    @8 Mr C Summary Report

    Mr C thinks that decreasiong employer healthcare costs by creating a national pool will cause a loss of jobs. That msut be why the C of Commerce s and the unions support the idea.

    Mr C also asserts that criminal activities in France are the result of their being a marxist dictatorship.

  9. 14

    mark spews:

    Mr Cynical, I guess these tards will have to stand in a soup line for ten years until they understand that socialism DOESN’T WORK. Hell, they don’t even know their ideas have caused the current fiscal crisis. You couldn’t write a better movie. If it weren’t so serious it would be funny to watch.

  10. 15

    correctnotright spews:

    Mr. C is a well known fool and idiot:

    Take a look at the profit the health insurnace companies are making as they raise rates, deny pre-existing conditions and deny or delay real health care to subscribers:

    an examination of insurers’ medical loss ratio — the fraction of revenue from a plan’s premiums that goes to pay for medical services– suggests that within the last 10 years, insurers have been spending less on medical care and more on administrative costs or profits

    “insurers in the individual market sometimes maintain medical loss ratios of only 60%, retaining 40% of premium dollars for administration, marketing and profit.” “For the 10 biggest insurers in the year 2006 (the year the insurers used for the 1 cent out of every dollar depiction above), profits were anywhere from 2 to 10 percent, or two to 10 pennies on the dollar. That’s two to 10 times as much as what the insurance industry group suggests in its illustrations.”

    The top five earning insurance companies averaged profits of $1.56 billion in 2008 and reported spending an average of “more than 18 percent of their revenues on marketing, administration, and profits.” That year, CEO compensation for these companies ranged from $3 million to $24 million

    For the first time in its seven years, Modern Healthcare’s annual survey of corporate CEO pay has failed to turn up a healthcare CEO who raked in more than $15 million in compensation last year. The performance of the stock market in 2008 was a big reason that the compensation of the 30 CEOs covered by the survey was relatively low. Not a single CEO cashed in stock options worth more than $10 million in 2008, also a first for the survey.

    The relative down year for healthcare CEO compensation probably won’t generate much empathy for the CEOs. The median compensation for the 30 CEOs in the survey was still a bit more than $4 million. Moreover, as the detailed disclosures on executive pay required by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission show, every CEO has stock options that could be worth millions as the equity markets recover.

    http://www.modernhealthcare.co.....6055789687

  11. 16

    correctnotright spews:

    @14: Dear Mark (the fool):

    If government run health care doesn’t work…why does every other civilized country in the world use it?

    Wouldn’t they realize it didn’t work and get rid of it? Instead, we have our system that exists only in our country….and guess what?

    It doesn’t work nearly as well as the other systemss. We spend almost double what every other country spends and we get….lousy health care (on par with Slovenia).

    Maybe you should actually look at some facts Mark….before shooting off your mouth about something you obviously know nothing about.

  12. 17

    correctnotright spews:

    @9: Poor fool Klynical ….businesses are behind this plan because it will level the playing field for US businesses that have to shoulder health care costs on their own….costs will go down with more control and more jobs will be created.

    Wow, your ignorance is realy showing again, Klynical. Thanks for the laughs, though. You are pretty funny when you write such stupid stuff and you demonstrate how little you know.

  13. 20

    proud leftist spews:

    Reading posts from our trolls, we must reluctantly conclude that euthanasia is appropriate for those who can walk and kind of talk, but are, for all intents and purposes, brain dead. Mark, Cyn, Puddy, I’m sorry, but the gene pool needs refreshing. Vaya con Dios, senores.

  14. 21

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    cnr, you didn’t respond to John Dingell and his comments on cerebral palsy in HR 3200. Puddy knows why. Puddy knows when confronted with John Dingell’s own words on video you realize once again, yep, you are a fool.

  15. 22

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @10,

    As I recall, Lyndon Johnson’s administration drafted a lot of young men, too, for the Vietnam War. Let’s be thorough and remember that both Dems and Reps thought the SSS was just wonderful, back in 1966. The Vietnam was was first owned by the Dems, then the Reps, so both parties were equally guilty.

  16. 23

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Here is what the Fringe Lunatic Left faces:

    Thursday, August 27, 2009

    As August winds down, the good news for President Obama and congressional Democrats is that support for their proposed health care legislation has stopped falling. The bad news is that most voters oppose the plan.

    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey show that 43% of voters nationwide favor the plan working its way through Congress while 53% are opposed. Those figures are virtually identical to results from two weeks ago.

    As has been true since the debate began, those opposed to the congressional overhaul feel more strongly about the legislation than supporters. Forty-three percent (43%) now Strongly Oppose the legislation while 23% Strongly Favor it. Those figures, too, are similar to results from earlier in August.

    The 43% Strongly Opposed is a real problem for Obama and his hatchetmen.
    It looks like nothing will happen this year, meaning it will probably not happen in 2010 either with the Elections.
    Depending upon how the 2010 Elections go, perhaps in 2011 if the Dems retain substantial control. If the Dems lose badly in 2010, watch Obama hide as he postures for re-election in 2012.

  17. 24

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Also, remember that people hate Lawyers more than Politicians.
    Watch Tort Reform be front and center as part of the Republican Health Care Reform package!

    That one will be tough to fight.
    Lawyers are pretty easy targets…especially when you have John Edwards as the posterboy for generating incredible wealth via Ambulance Chasing.

  18. 25

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    14. mark spews:

    Mr Cynical, I guess these tards will have to stand in a soup line for ten years until they understand that socialism DOESN’T WORK. Hell, they don’t even know their ideas have caused the current fiscal crisis. You couldn’t write a better movie. If it weren’t so serious it would be funny to watch

    Hey mark–
    Remember post-election when the KLOWNS were frothing at the mouth about all the things Obama was going to do to us?
    If you really want a laugh, go back and look at some of their posts.
    I don’t know about you, but I made some decent money in this recent phoney stock market rally and we started averaging out of the market when it hit 9400. Selling more today.
    They only stock I’m hanging onto is Wells Fargo..until it is LT Capital Gain.
    I hate paying 35% ST CG Tax…but this “sucker rally” was inevitable, as is the coming decline. The market may hit as high as 11,000..but not much more than that. More likely 10,500…but I’m not willing to risk much.

  19. 26

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    16. correctnotright spews:

    @14: Dear Mark (the fool):

    If government run health care doesn’t work…why does every other civilized country in the world use it?

    Canada is IMPLODING as we speak.
    They have over 1 million NECESSARY Surgeries backlogged.
    They have over another million waiting for necessary testing to approve likely surgery.

    How many Yerapeein’ countries have a Tort System that forces Doctors to practice massive Defensive medicine driving up the cost of Health Care and malpractice insurance, not to mention the actual judgments??
    ANSWER: NONE!!

    How many other “civilized” nations treat 30+ million ILLEGAL ALIENS??
    ANSWER: NONE!!

    cnr is nothing more than a Dem hack..protecting trial attorneys and BIG GUV’MINT. The only silver-lining is this fool is consistently a Marxist!

  20. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @14 Maybe it’s time to remind you again that the soup lines of the 1930s were created by REPUBLICANS and our current depression was also created by REPUBLICANS. Get your head out of your ass, boy — Republican economic ideology doesn’t work any better than socialism, if that well … what works is regulated capitalism as practiced by the Democratic Party. Obama, like FDR before him, is SAVING capitalism from itself — again.

  21. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @24 “Watch Tort Reform be front and center as part of the Republican Health Care Reform package!”

    I think we already had a referendum on that in last November’s election.

    Republican Plan: Take away patients’ rights to sue negligent hospitals and doctors; bar consumers from discharging medical bills in bankruptcy; let insurance companies, hospitals, and greedy doctors continue running amok.

    Democratic Plan: Rein in arbitrary and abusive insurance practices; expand access to health care; control costs to keep health care affordable for the middle class.

    Result: Republicans got their asses kicked six ways to Sunday in last fall’s elections: A black Democrat was elected president and Democrats won supermajorities in both houses of Congress.

    How much more political suicide do you idiots wish to commit? Be my guest …

  22. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @24 (continued) Go ahead, Klown, keep campaigning on a platform of telling people that if a quack doctor kills their loved ones that’s tough shit, the quack doctor gets a free pass and the unfortunate patient’s survivors get the finger. See how well that works for your party at the polls. I fucking dare you.

  23. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 Yeah, I see Canadians flocking across the border to U.S. clinics for our health care …

    [rabbit voice dripping with sarcasm]

  24. 31

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    30. Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 Yeah, I see Canadians flocking across the border to U.S. clinics for our health care

    They are dumb bunny. Knee & hip surgeries.
    Anything the Canadians deem “elective”…which is most everything these days.

  25. 32

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 (continued) One way to eliminate surgery backlogs is to raise the price of surgery so high that nobody can afford it.

    About a week ago, I saw a house painter gash his scalp on a roof overhang. He went home and taped up his head with butterfly bandages himself, because he couldn’t afford to go to a clinic for stitches. That’s how we do things here in the good ol’ USA. If he were in Canada, he could have driven himself to a clinic, gotten proper medical care, and it wouldn’t have cost him a penny.

    Ask any 10 Canadian house painters with bleeding heads whether they’d trade their health system for ours.

    Go ahead, I fucking dare you …

  26. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @31 Really? They must not be coming to Seattle then, because I’ve never met a Canadian in a doctor’s office or ER. Not one. Ever.

  27. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The cost of living is lower in Montana. You don’t have to buy liquor there. Drink the rightwing kool-aid and get punch-drunk for free.

  28. 35

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical,

    Good morning to ya. Ya know ya never read cnr discussing defensive medicine. spongebob wondermoron find the PuddyPost on that.

    Anyway while spongebob wondermoron is looking that up Puddy read this a while ago.

    “About 83 percent reported practicing defensive medicine, with an average of between 18 percent and 28 percent of tests, procedures, referrals, and consultations and 13 percent of hospitalizations ordered for defensive reasons.

    Such practices were estimated to cost a minimum of $1.4 billion per year in Massachusetts.”

    Now if that is the waste in Mass for only 6 months for physicians in eight specialties: anesthesiology, emergency medicine, family medicine, internal medicine, general surgery, neurosurgery, orthopedics, and obstetrics/gynecology; is this another of cnr’s called anecdote stories? These results are for the Mass socialized medicine experiment. What will happen for the rest of America when this “messiahcare bill” comes along?

    Did you find it yet square pants wondermoron?

  29. 36

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I understand they have pretty strong goat milk there, too. See Mr. Cynical as Exhibit A.

  30. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Imbecile @35 — So now in Republican Wonderland, doctors being careful to make correct diagnoses and avoid screwups that might injure or kill their patients is “waste”? That figures.

  31. 38

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Do you know what the average wait time for a Canadian to obtain treatment from a specialist after seeing a primary care physician? About 4-1/2 months. In the U.S.? Virtually none.

    If you want to see a primary care doctor in the U.S.? Pick up the phone and call one.

    However, in Canada, you have to get in line behind the five percent of the population waiting to get a primary care physician (about 17 million Canadians).

  32. 39

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Puddy–
    Cnr and YLB go brain-dead when you discuss numbers.
    Money doesn’t matter to them..
    ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS SOMEONE ELSES!!

    Thanks for the facts.
    If Libtard Massa2shits fails in a year…how will America fair??
    Just print more $$ and incur more debt!!
    Right cnr.??

  33. 40

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical, of course cnr will call this another anecdote on why health care costs are so high.

  34. 41

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical, but wait another “anecdote” from HuffPo, the leftist daily reading blog.

    “The results of Kessler and McClellan’s study have been applied to current health care expenditure to approximate the cost of defensive medicine across the nation. These statistics applied to the nation’s $1.4 trillion annual health care expenditure in 2005 (estimated to be over $2 trillion this fiscal year by President Obama), show that health care costs could have been reduced by $124 billion overall and government expenses by $50 billion per year. Adding the cost of defending malpractice cases, paying compensation, and covering additional administrative costs (a total of $29.4 billion), the average American family thus pays an additional $2,000 per year in health care just to cover the costs of defensive medicine. With the national health care costs expected to be over $4.5 trillion by 2017, the cost of defensive medicine to the average American could triple in the next 10 years.” PuddyEmphasis.

  35. 43

    Rujax! spews:

    OK…I’ll play duelling articles with the evil twins of HA trollfucks…

    http://www.americablog.com/200.....rance.html

    By Froma Horrop…

    “Death panels”? I’ll tell you about death panels. My husband faced one some years ago, and it didn’t involve any government bureaucrat. It was run by our private insurer, the sort of corporate entity that foes of health-care reform say will give you anything you want.

    …I don’t think ANYBODY would ever accuse her of advocating progessive policies.

    You two are just vile assholes. Go take a goat-fucking trip to Montana or something. Just get fucking lost.

  36. 44

    SeattleJew's Sockpuppet spews:

    Mr C .. SJ Summary

    Mr C rages about klong waits in CA for specialists and says one can see a dioc immediately here.

    He is correct .. unless you want your insurance to pay for the specialist. JMost poloicies require a traige visit to a primary care doc before they will pay for your seeing a specialist. I know thyat one specialty, derm, currently has a waiting list of months .

    Besides, no one in Congress is proposing that the US adopt the Canadian system .. unless that is Mr C’s idea?

  37. 45

    YLB spews:

    What the morons don’t understand, under single payer, the system is more forgiving of mistakes. If a patient is injured by malpractice the system takes care of him.

    No need to sue! Hell under single payer, there’s hardly any need for malpractice trial attorneys!

    All you gotta do is drum an incompetent doctor out of medicine so she doesn’t bankrupt the system.

    Problem solved. That wasn’t so hard was it?

  38. 46

    YLB spews:

    Canada is IMPLODING as we speak.
    They have over 1 million NECESSARY Surgeries backlogged.

    In a country of 33 million people. Uhhh. yeah I believe it!

  39. 47

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Ahhh @43 appears.

    There is only one dumb as a clusterfuck cinderblock rujax!

    Thank Goodness for that!

  40. 48

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    It sure is great when the libtardo MSM finally starts telling the world what’s in HR 3200.

    “Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and “other information as is prescribed by” regulation.” – Thanks CBS News

    Great, we will get to see how much spongebob wondermoron mooches. And……….Puddy is sure we’ll get to see how much these great leftist libtardo minds populating HA make.

  41. 49

    YLB spews:

    Moron @ 48

    Drop some more pearls of wisdom from “the Lewin group”. What was that you said?

    “So what if they’re owned by an insurance company..” Something like that?

    LOL! Such a bought and paid for tool!

    and if you’re not getting money for this, then you’re the cheapest whore of them all.

  42. 50

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    How many czars does “the messiah” have working for him with no congressional oversight?

    Dr Ezekiel Emanuel, with no congressional oversight is one of Obama’s czars.

    “In the June 18, 2008, issue of JAMA, Dr. Emanuel blames the Hippocratic Oath for the “overuse” of medical care: “Medical school education and post graduate education emphasize thoroughness,” he writes. “This culture is further reinforced by a unique understanding of professional obligations, specifically the Hippocratic Oath’s admonition to ‘use my power to help the sick to the best of my ability and judgment’ as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of cost or effect on others.””

    Yep, who are these fools being placed above congressional oversight.

    “To reduce health-insurance costs, Dr. Emanuel argues that insurance companies should pay for new treatments only when the evidence demonstrates that the drug will work for most patients.”

    Oh that’s right… it’s okay becuz they libtardo leftists.

  43. 52

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    “Dr. Emanuel’s assessment of American medical care is summed up in a Nov. 23, 2008, Washington Post op-ed he co-authored: “The United States is No. 1 in only one sense: the amount we shell out for health care. We have the most expensive system in the world per capita, but we lag behind many developed nations on virtually every health statistic you can name.”

    This is untrue, though sadly it’s parroted at town-hall meetings across the country. Moreover, it’s an odd factual error coming from an oncologist. According to an August 2009 report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, patients diagnosed with cancer in the U.S. have a better chance of surviving the disease than anywhere else. The World Health Organization also rates the U.S. No. 1 out of 191 countries for responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient. That attention to the individual is imperiled by Dr. Emanuel’s views. ”

    So Puddy suggests if you unfortunately get cancer, leave the country because “we lag behind many developed nations on virtually every health statistic you can name.”

  44. 53

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    So HA Libtardos with Rhambo’s brother at “the messiah” medical helm, do you agree with his “assertion” of a social consensus that the lives of 15-to-40-year-olds should be saved ahead of the lives of children 14 and younger? Or how about adults greater than 41 years old? Golly many HA Libtardos would be saying see ya if ya got deathly ill!

    Wasn’t the old adage save the women and children first except on the Titanic where it was rich and ships owners first? Now it’s anyone 15-to-40 per Dr No!

  45. 55

    Steve spews:

    How about we just deny healthcare to Republicans? If they bitch about it, then it’s off to a FEMA camp they go, to get their kool-aid addled minds right. If that fails, they go before death panels comprised of Black Panthers, illegal immigrant M-13 gang members, and little old white lady eco-terrorists.

    heh- Just kidding, you loons. For Christ’s sake, dial down the batshit-crazy, will ya?

  46. 56

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Steve, how can one dial down the “bat-shit carzy” when a “bat-shit crazy” Dr. is on the messiah’s health care medical team and he happens to be the brother of “the messiah’s” chief of staph? PUN INTENDED!

  47. 57

    Steve spews:

    @56 “chief of staph”

    heh- Not bad, Puddy. I’ve got to run off to the dentist, you have a good weekend.

  48. 58

    Very Hairy Kerry spews:

    Oh, changing the subject now? Don’t want to talk about the bullshit you posted about Kerry anymore?

    The subject was LBJ and his Silver Star, which was almost as “suspicious” as Kerry saying that Nixon sent Kerry to Cambodia in December 1968.

    The Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, almost 300 or them, told the truth: John Kerry is bullshit with a perm.

  49. 59

    YLB spews:

    Dr Ezekiel Emanuel, with no congressional oversight is one of Obama’s czars.

    The fiend quotes a WSJ Editorial from Betsy McCaughey who lied about the Clinton plan back in the day and who’s lying today:

    Stewart, who was quick to point out that McCaughey was not the person who coined the phrase “death panel,” conceded little else during the interview. That said, the interview went basically like this: McCaughey would say the bill said something, only it would turn out that different words were used, or that it actually wouldn’t say that at all, and Jon Stewart would gently point this out, and she’d insist otherwise, and then start flipping through the bill, not really finding the proof or the documentation she was talking about. Stewart, at one point, contended that McCaughey’s take on the matter was “hyperbolic” and “dangerous.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....64970.html

    Nice work fiend supporting the writings of a proven liar.

  50. 60

    YLB spews:

    Yet another ooopsie from Stupsie:

    McCaughey has been a Wall Street banker, a Republican lieutenant governor, and a staffer at conservative think tanks, but as James Fallows noted at The Atlantic recently, she has falsely presented herself as a neutral researcher in the health care debate. She helped give birth to the pernicious “death panel” charge against health reform legislation with a column in Bloomberg News. Asked to defend her positions on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart Thursday night, McCaughey floundered.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....15012.html

    Why does it take a comedian to hold liars like this accountable?

  51. 61

    spews:

    Puddybud @ 56,

    Steve, how can one dial down the “bat-shit carzy” when a “bat-shit crazy” Dr. is on the messiah’s health care medical team and he happens to be the brother of “the messiah’s” chief of staph?

    (*Rolls eyes*)

    Please Puddybud, quit spewing crap, and actually investigate this ignorant right wing bullshit before parroting it here.

    From a Sun Times interview with Dr. Emanuel:

    Emanuel said he has not talked to Obama about these medical ethics questions. Brother Rahm does use him as a health policy resource.

    “He calls me, he yells at me and calls me an idiot. But that is usual for Rahm. That is a sign of endearment.

    Hey Puddy…have I told you today that you are a fucking idiot!

  52. 62

    YLB spews:

    And…

    Betsy McCaughey, the Clinton-era health care reform foe who has risen again to fight President Obama’s push, has resigned from her post on the board of directors of Cantel Medical Corporation to “avoid any appearance of a conflict on interest.”

    Cheap whore indeed – Stupes that is… McCaughey is at least well paid for what she does.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....65547.html

  53. 63

    spews:

    Puddybud,

    “do you agree with his “assertion” of a social consensus that the lives of 15-to-40-year-olds should be saved ahead of the lives of children 14 and younger?”

    I disagree with the premise that he made that assertion.

    From a Sun Times interview with Dr. Emanuel:

    “As far as rationing goes, it’s nothing I’ve ever advocated for the health system as a whole, and I’ve talked about rationing only in the context of situations where you have limited items, like limited livers or limited vaccine, and not for overall health care.”

  54. 64

    spews:

    Puddybud @ 52,

    I agree with you that Dr. Emanuel’s statement:

    We have the most expensive system in the world per capita, but we lag behind many developed nations on virtually every health statistic you can name.nuel’s statement

    is unfortunate. But it is unfortunate because “virtual” has two contradictory meanings.

    If he meant that we lead behind many developed nations on EVERY health care statistic, then the claim is objectively false.

    If he meant that we lead behind many developed nations on ALMOST EVERY health care statistic then he is correct.

    Oh…and I should point out that the Preston and Ho paper you cite is looking at health differently than the Emanuel Op-ed piece is:

    Because our concern is with mortality per se, the criterion we employ is effectiveness at preventing death, rather than cost-effectiveness or efficiency of resource deployment. These latter criteria have been used in several other recent comparative studies with a financial focus…

    Since the U.S. pumps far more money per capita and as a percent of GDP into health care than other developed countries, it is not surprising that a few statistics bubble up to the top. But in terms of efficiency (the topic of the Op-Ed) the statistics are pretty pathetic.

  55. 65

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Darryl, your searching skills are fucking atrocious.

    “In health care, as elsewhere, scarcity is the mother of allocation.1 Although the extent is debated,2,3 the scarcity of many specific interventions—including beds in intensive care units,4 organs, and vaccines during pandemic influenza5—is widely acknowledged. For some interventions, demand exceeds supply. For others, an increased supply would necessitate redirection of important resources, and allocation decisions would still be necessary.6″ – So much for that crap in his Sun Times interview

    “When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” Dr Ezekiel Emanuel Lancet 2009

    Since Betsy McCaughey quoted from his Lancet article, that puts spongebob wondermoron in a quandary sponging as Puddy called it earlier today from HuffPo.

  56. 66

    respectfully awaiting moderation and deletion spews:

    Yeah, yeah, 61 … it was all in the Jayson Blair Times two days ago. Doktor Emanuel is somewhat more complicated and nuanced than his detractors suggest.

    But then the Jayson Blair Times went on to establish that “peak oil” nonsense is nonsense.

    And then the Times gave column inches to sane and sensible teabaggers. In other words, the Jayson Blair Times finally approximated the truth: Obama opponents, almost every one, are good men, good women, and good citizens. If even the Jayson Blair Times can finally get a grip on the truth, why can’t you?

  57. 67

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Golly spongebob wondermoron the NY Times has a different tune… It’s surprising since they are on of “the messiah’s” mouthpieces.

    “The zeal for cutting health costs, combined with proposals to compare the effectiveness of various treatments and to counsel seniors on end-of-life care, may explain why some people think the legislation is about rationing, which could affect access to the most expensive services in the final months of life.”

  58. 68

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Darryl,

    Since you missed it above here it is again…

    “The results of Kessler and McClellan’s study have been applied to current health care expenditure to approximate the cost of defensive medicine across the nation. These statistics applied to the nation’s $1.4 trillion annual health care expenditure in 2005 (estimated to be over $2 trillion this fiscal year by President Obama), show that health care costs could have been reduced by $124 billion overall and government expenses by $50 billion per year. Adding the cost of defending malpractice cases, paying compensation, and covering additional administrative costs (a total of $29.4 billion), the average American family thus pays an additional $2,000 per year in health care just to cover the costs of defensive medicine. With the national health care costs expected to be over $4.5 trillion by 2017, the cost of defensive medicine to the average American could triple in the next 10 years.” PuddyEmphasis.

  59. 69

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Darryl will roll eyes again…

    Please Puddybud, quit spewing crap, and actually investigate this ignorant right wing bullshit before parroting it here.

    Dr Ezekiel Emanuel‘s official title, Health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget; Member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research

  60. 70

    YLB spews:

    That Besty McCaughey interview by Stewart is a hoot.

    She’s a professional liar. Nothing more.

    She claims that the House whose members are elected every two years are going to take stents, hip replacements, etc. away from seniors.

    She’s a professional fear-monger who leaps to outrageous conclusions to put the brakes on any kind of progressive change that’s a threat to those who pay her.

    At least in contrast to the Republicans, she has proposals of her own, unworkable at first glance but at least she has them.

    Betsy could quote the freaking bible and it wouldn’t change the fact that she has little to no credibility.

  61. 71

    spews:

    Puddybud @ 65,

    “In health care, as elsewhere, scarcity is the mother of allocation.1 Although the extent is debated,2,3 the scarcity of many specific interventions—including beds in intensive care units,4 organs, and vaccines during pandemic influenza5—is widely acknowledged. For some interventions, demand exceeds supply. For others, an increased supply would necessitate redirection of important resources, and allocation decisions would still be necessary.6″

    So much for that crap in his Sun Times interview

    How does this quotation contradict the Sun Times article? What you have cited is simply a review of facts. Notice the little numbers, Puddy? Those are references to statements made in other papers. The only citation to Emanual’s previous work is citation 5 (Emanuel EJ, Wertheimer A. Who should get influenza vaccine when not all can? Science 2006; 312: 854–55.), which was on ethical dilemma’s arising from limited vaccines. You quotation not only doesn’t contradict Dr. Emanual’s Sun Times statement, but it lends support!

    Regarding your second quote. Again, it is you who have failed to do your research. The abstract states clearly what the paper does:

    Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off , maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

    The Lancet article that Emanuel coauthored was specifically talking about “very scarce medical” resources. It wasn’t about the health care system in general.

    Quit being a lazy fuck. When you make a claim here READ IT FIRST. And TRY to understand the claim.

  62. 74

    Rujax! spews:

    71. Darryl spews:

    Puddybud @ 65,

    Quit being a lazy fuck. When you make a claim here READ IT FIRST. And TRY to understand the claim.

    08/28/2009 at 1:07 pm

    Darryl, you are asking WAYYYYY too much of that asshole.

    Telling him to go fuck more goats with his fellow pervert in Montana is about as good as it’s gonna get with this moron.

  63. 75

    spews:

    Puddybud,

    “Dr Ezekiel Emanuel’s official title, Health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget; Member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research

    No shit, Puddy. But that makes him an adviser to the OMB.

    You claim that Zeke is a czar, which implies a hell of a lot more than acting as an advisor (one of numerous advisors) to OMB. From 50:

    How many czars does “the messiah” have working for him with no congressional oversight?

    Dr Ezekiel Emanuel, with no congressional oversight is one of Obama’s czars.

    Yet…he’s never spoken to Obama about health policy.

    More of your dishonesty, Puddy.

  64. 76

    spews:

    Puddybud @ 74,

    “Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others” (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).”

    So???? Have you read the paper? Do you have any fucking idea with the paper is about?

    And please state how you think this is relevant to our discussion. Unless you make a claim that it support or falsifies something, it is hard to make heads or tails out of things you post.

  65. 77

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Darryl, it seems you agree with Dr Emanuel allocation analysis and his 15-to-40 year old analysis. Puddy doesn’t.

  66. 79

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Yep, doctors should ignore their patients and just prescribe the minimum and save $$$. That’s Darryl’s ideal system.

  67. 81

    YLB spews:

    But then the Jayson Blair Times went on to establish that “peak oil” nonsense is nonsense.

    Silly HNMT, I’m a peak oil skeptic myself and you’re spouting nonsense about nonsense in the NY Times.

    The Lynch piece was an opinion. Not any reporting on some kind of solid scientific consensus. As I recall. he merely rehashed stuff he’s been saying for years about peak oilers.

    The fact remains that oil will only continue to climb towards being prohibitively expensive to extract while demand climbs along with it. It’s way past time to find another source of energy to move people and goods.

    My favorite right now is the thorium fuel cycle but it will likely take a decade or two to develop if we started now with a serious commitment. A dark horse is a breakthrough in electrical energy storage that will make solar and wind truly real.

  68. 82

    spews:

    Puddybud,

    “Darryl, it seems you agree with Dr Emanuel allocation analysis and his 15-to-40 year old analysis. Puddy doesn’t.”

    LOL Puddy, you don’t UNDERSTAND it. You have no idea what the paper is about.

  69. 83

    spews:

    Puddybud @ 179,

    “Yep, doctors should ignore their patients and just prescribe the minimum and save $$$.”

    That option was not among ANY of the allocation systems being examined in that paper. Really, Puddy. You have to read the paper completely, carefully, and objectively before you can even hope to make any intelligent comment about it.

    But I doubt you have the intellectual capacity or the capacity for objectivity to do so.

    “That’s Darryl’s ideal system.”

    Another thing Puddy. When you don’t understand something, but you insist on making claims anyway, that is a form of dishonesty.

    STOP THE DISHONESTY, PUDDY. You should be able to do better than that.

  70. 85

    Rujax! spews:

    The puddybitch has really turned into a vicious prick. I wonder if Mrs. Bitch (if there is one…who would want to be around an asshole who thinks he’s never wrong) or the fictional “puddybuttons” know he’s such a vile male in these comments. Somehow I don’t think it would be a big surprise.

  71. 86

    YLB spews:

    With Stupes it has all come down to what “feels” right – the right wing way of course. The way that those who “stink right” feel.

    If he gets the “tingle” that he gets from prime right wing bullshit then for him it has to be right, it can never be wrong for him.

    That “ustogther” crap he got from the Olberman hate site gave him that kind of “feeling”.

    It sure must suck to be this crazy.

  72. 87

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    clusterfucked cinderblock farted@85

    The puddybitch has really turned into a vicious prick.

    You were that way from birth.

    puddybuttons?

    Any questions?

  73. 88

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Puddy @56 “chief of staph”

    Nice one Puddy.
    I will be forwarding that post to all my friends who think the RIGHT way!

  74. 89

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    85. Rujax! spews:

    The puddybitch has really turned into a vicious prick. I wonder if Mrs. Bitch (if there is one…who would want to be around an asshole who thinks he’s never wrong) or the fictional “puddybuttons” know he’s such a vile male in these comments

    Rujax, you’ve got to be kidding me.
    You are the KING of Vile Comments.
    Mrs. Puddy is smart and beautiful.
    Rujax has a blow-up doll that looks like plastic face nancy Pelosi.

    And Puddy is very enjoyable to be around.
    He actually has an interesting life unlike you.
    And the reason Puddy is never wrong is that HE DOES HIS HOMEWORK unlike you KLOWNS who only use the Daily Kos and Move On.org as your info sources.

  75. 90

    Rujax! spews:

    89. Mr. Cynical spews:

    And the reason Puddy is never wrong is that HE DOES HIS HOMEWORK unlike you KLOWNS who only use the Daily Kos and Move On.org as your info sources.

    08/28/2009 at 3:12 pm

    The crown prince of disgusting perverts thinks he’s funny.

    Dang…he’s right!

  76. 91

    Rujax! spews:

    89. Mr. Cynical spews:

    And the reason Puddy is never wrong is that HE DOES HIS HOMEWORK unlike you KLOWNS who only use the Daily Kos and Move On.org as your info sources.

    08/28/2009 at 3:12 pm

    Like you, the stupid motherfucker known as colonelsandersfavoritechicken is NEVER RIGHT!!!!

    Christ on a Crutch!

  77. 92

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rujax–
    colonelsandersfavoritechicken??
    Where is the outrage from the Left!
    Rujax…you are unemployable.
    Your language is obscene…meaning you cannot make a reasoned argument about anything.
    Shame on you!
    Why must you be so mean and racist??

  78. 93

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Cynical,

    Michael Jackson and Earvin Magic Johnson love Kentucky Fried Chicken, so the vile prick will always be the vile prick!

  79. 94

    Steve spews:

    I admit it, Puddy, I love KFC chicken too. Um, original recipe.

    Anyways, Puddy, just a few days ago I got in touch with one of the three kids who were my best friends growing up in the projects. (Yeah, black kids, Mr. Klynical. Get over it already.) Of the three kids, William was really my bestus friend. We hadn’t been in touch in over 45 years, not since my Mom died. I mention him because when he wrote of his faith, and he wrote of it a lot, it made me think of you somehow. I haven’t quite figured that one out. Anyway, his faith really helped him to turn his life around, leading him away from drugs, into teaching, which he never had imagined, and then a principal, which was even further out from where he once thought he’d be. He let his faith guide his life. When I first wrote to him I told him how fondly I remembered his Mom, who had shown me an awful lot of kindness back then. And speaking of chicken, I remember having a fried chicken dinner one evening at their home. There was an “OMG!!” moment when I saw William and his older brother pour ketchup all over their chicken. Likewise, they had their own OMG!! moment seeing me take a bite of chicken without ketchup on it. “Mama” just laughed at all of us. I tell you Puddy, when I finished reading his letter to me, I wept for joy and thanked God for being so blessed that I had ever had such a friend as William, that he was well, that he remembered our friendship as I had, and that someday soon we’ll be together again as friends. You know, I think I understand now. It’s that blessing I received that I wanted to share with you. Few people I know would truly understand this one. I seem to believe one of them is you.

    Later.

  80. 95

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Steve, great story. People can learn much from down home cooking in a black kitchen or dining room. The prick AKA ruajx! will never learn nuthin.

    Good for you for your friendship with William.

  81. 96

    Rujax! spews:

    You dolts don’t remember….

    “The puddybitch voting rethuglicant is like the chicken voting for Col. Sanders”. In one of his death defying leaps of logic, brought on by his almost total lack of reading comprehension and critical thinking…the puddybitch conflated “colonelsandersfavoritechicken” with some kind of distaste for the KFC product. Typical half-assed reasoning…typical like the rest of you imbeciles are typical. Facts just don’t matter. Only your litttle dream world matters.

    In the real world, your party fucked up the country and our party has to clean up the mess AGAIN.

    PS-KFC sucks. Ezell’s is the real deal.

  82. 97

    Rujax! spews:

    @92…

    The stupid son-of-a-bitch can dish it out but he can’t take it….natch.

    Chickenshit goat-fucker.

  83. 98

    Steve spews:

    Thanks very much, Puddy. Those friendships were important to me and shaped my life in many ways. When I wrote to William I let him know what I knew of Terry and David. When I was released from detention in my junior year, both went to the same high school with me. Terry and I renewed our friendship but I lost track of him when he was involved in a cop killing back around 1973, the same time I was moving to Colorado. He didn’t pull the trigger, but he was there and went to prison for it. David and I didn’t say a word to each other in high school. Not one word. At our ten year reunion we finally approached each other and then you couldn’t shut us up. You see, David’s oldest brother, Aaron, had died when we were kids – a very tragic accident. As a kid, I didn’t know how to be there for David. We started growing apart after that. William had updates for me and Terry’s out of prison, married and doing well. William also wrote about how he had tried to deal with the death of David’s brother and how he and David had developed a deeper bond from that experience. Like I told William, and as I need to tell David, no matter how many years pass, in my heart and mind there will always be three brothers, Aaron, Stanley and David. There’s a good chance I’ll see both David and Terry at my 40th reunion and it’s just possible that soon after, the four of us will be together again as friends. All these years I never dreamed it possible.

    William’s Dad owned a barbershop on Jackson Street for many years up until he died in 1972. Think not so much the movie “Barbershop”, as that’s too contemporary. Rather, think the O’Jay’s barbershop scene in The Fighting Temptations. If you haven’t seen that movie, you really should, especially the DVD, as it has an extended scene of the O’Jays. Silly flick, sure, but it probably has the best gospel music performances ever put on film.

    A few months after my Mom died I went back to the projects to see my friends. When the people in charge of me found out, people sanctioned by our state, I was beaten to within an inch of my life for having black friends. I was then forbidden to ever see them again.

    Thanks again, Puddy, for letting me share this and for your reading my words with an open heart and mind.

  84. 99

    Steve spews:

    @92 “Shame on you!”

    Shame on you, Mr. Klynical, for posting a racist joke about blacks being afraid to have to work like a white man. You showed your hand with that one. You have no moral standing. Get lost.

  85. 100

    YLB spews:

    And the reason Puddy is never wrong is that HE DOES HIS HOMEWORK

    LMAO!!! Stupes and Klyn are made for each. Full of right wing bullshit and ALWAYS LOSING and ALWAYS WRONG!

  86. 102

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Steve, personal stories are always read with an open heart and mind. It’s the life one lives. Puddy has one friend who will always be my best friend from when Puddy and he were six years old.

    Fools like rujax are well… fools. Morons like sponngbob wonderwmoron are well… morons.

    Been to Ezell’s it’s okay but nuthin to quack about like the fool rumblin jackass claims.