1. 1

    slingshot spews:

    A new poll out shows that 54% of Republicans approve of Bush’s handling of the ECONOMY!? While that is a new low, among many new lows, it pretty much sums up the intellect of the party.

  2. 4

    mark spews:

    What a non productive liberal loser. Did you see how
    he held the hammer? Like a little kid. Piece of shit
    hasn’t worked a day in his life. Nice fucking ponytail.
    Proud party you tards got going. That WAS funny, keep
    it coming!

  3. 5

    mark spews:

    I’m still laughing and the back of my head hurts. You
    can spot a liberal from a mile away but two miles with a scope.

  4. 6

    michael spews:


    I know a few people who swing a hammer for a living, they belong to a union and vote Democratic.

  5. 7

    YLB spews:

    Great video!

    In an age of corporate dominated media that spawns an abomination like Flush Limpblows, you have to be creative to get out a message of dissent.

    This guy is that. This guy is a hero.

  6. 8

    YLB spews:

    A new poll out shows that 54% of Republicans approve of Bush’s handling of the ECONOMY!?

    That’s not surprising. Staunch Republicans work in defense industries, the military, resource extraction and other places that benefit from Republican policies.

    Engineers, mercs and others who have worked in Iraq and Afghanistan have totally raked it in. Some have met with some badness from the stray IED or VBID but if they can avoid that, they generally do very well.

  7. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 It would be nice if Obama’s observation about the middle class was accurate, but it isn’t. The working class that was lifted up by half a century of Democratic policies turned on the party that fed them (and on themselves) long before the Bush Crash came along. This started happening back in the Nixon era and continued apace through the Reagan Depression and on through the 90s and into the new millenium. When you look around, what you should see is that most rightwingers are working-class stiffs. They’re being jacked like nobody’s business by the powerful business interests who actually run the GOP, but they’re either blind or in denial or don’t care. This is much, much, much deeper than bitter people seeking solace in side issues. In fact, Obama has it completely wrong in terms of cart and horse; these people aren’t wingnuts because they’re bitter, they’re bitter because they’ve reaped the fruits of voting for wingnuts. The bitterness is a symptom, not an etiology. You can’t reach those folks if you don’t understand what drove them to become wingnuts in the first place. To be honest, I don’t think there’s a solution, except to let them wallow in their own puddle of pig shit for a while, until they someday regain their senses and start voting economic issues again. Until then, they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and grow angrier and angrier at liberals for what they did to themselves.

  8. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @9 Reminds me of a recent poll that said illegal immigration was the #1 worry among Republican primary voters in Vermont even though Vermont has virtually no illegal immigrants.

    So typical of the irrationality that is the hallmark of rightwing knee-jerk thinking.

  9. 15

    Hannah spews:

    @14 – if you think wingnuts are the only ones who care about illegal immigration, you need to get out of your backyard. I have yet to speak to anyone that does not think illegal immigration is an issue. So it’s both sides of the fence. In fact, talk to anyone who is in the DSHS circles and they will all agree, it’s a huge issue. And most people needing help at DSHS lean dem because the dems help them out more. A friend who works at DSHS admits the reason legal citizens have problems getting financial help, is because they are flooded with “legal” immigrants who turn out to have fake ID…

  10. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @10 Hannah, I’m glad you realize the defense attorneys’ hands were tied. Divulging their client’s confession would be a disbarring offense. This may seem capricious, but lawyers can’t represent their clients if attorney-client conversations aren’t sacrosanct.

    Many state bar associations, including ours, have carved out a handful of obvious exceptions. In Washington, a lawyer is not required to keep secret a client’s revelation that he intends to commit an act of violence against another person. Apart from its obvious practical justification, there’s a rationale for this exception: Such a revelation is outside the scope of the current representation.

    As for the governor and attorney general, what do you expect them to do, unless the exonerating evidence is put before them?

    The news reports on this case focus on the defense attorneys who knew an innocent man went to prison but were forced to keep silent by the ethical rules of their profession. Why isn’t the media asking why an innocent man was convicted in the first place?

    Given that he’s innocent, what evidence was there of guilt? It must have been flimsy at best. The guilty verdict must have resulted from assuming facts and/or making leaps of logic. Where do the prosecutors, the trial judge, and the jury stand in all of this?

    In the absence of solid evidence, why police accuse him, why did prosecutors charge him? Why did the judge let the trial go forward? Why did the jury convict him?

    It’s wrong to focus on the defense attorneys who knew of the man’s innocence while ignoring the actors in the drama who sent an innocent man to prison. These defense attorneys were passive observers of a courtroom drama gone awry. He wasn’t their client and they weren’t involved in the trial. They knew an injustice was being committed, but they didn’t commit it. The police, prosecutor, judge, and jury committed it.

    Why isn’t the news media examining how and why this trial went off the rails? And what does it tell you about our criminal justice system that it’s so easy for a murder case to go awry? What happened to the safeguards that are supposed to prevent erroneous convictions of heinous crimes? Why didn’t they work?

    Once again, the media is focusing on the sensational aspects of the case while failing to delve into, or report on, the substance. Once again, the media’s customers are ill-served by shoddy journalism.

  11. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @15 Bullshit. Illegals aren’t eligible for welfare, food stamps, or medicaid. Do some people with phony IDs get through the system? Sure. DSHS caseworkers don’t have the time, training, or resources to conduct ID investigations. They can spot a duplicate SSN or clumsily-made fake driver’s license, but they’re not professional investigators and can fall prey to a clever forgery. But how many illegals are running around with cleverly forged IDs? Damn few. Most simply buy a SS number on the street and these are easily caught. It’s pretty obvious when you input an applicant’s SSN into the computer and the screen comes back telling you the SSN is already in use by 20 other applicants, too. These applicants do get screened out during the application process.

    For all the wingnut ranting against illegals, it is Republican employers who want the illegals here, because they provide cheap labor. In many cases, they work off-the-books, so the employer not only can pay low wages but also escapes payroll taxes. The Bush administration has been deliberately lax about enforcing immigration laws or taking meaningful action to stem the flow of illegal immigrants into America because Bush is catering to the business interests who profit from the cheap labor of illegals.

    The Republican argument goes that immigrants aren’t taking jobs away from Americans because our own people don’t want these jobs. Although there’s a grain of truth to it — immigrants take dirty jobs and menial jobs, and most Americans have gotten spoiled and won’t work in these jobs anymore. But immigrants also take jobs Americans do want. If you look at roofers or home builders working in your neighborhood, what you see is a couple of white guys supervising a crew of foreigners. The flood of immigrants into construction jobs has pushed down wages in the industry — most of these laborers are paid little more than minimum wage — and of course the builders love that. Maybe it’s true that Americans don’t want to work in roofing, framing, drywalling, or concrete pouring if the jobs pay $9 an hour. They didn’t use to; these used to be relatively good-paying jobs. The builders and contractors are making out like thieves here.

    And there’s another twist to the immigration debate you need to consider. Remember back in the 80s when the demographers warned us of a looming labor shortage? It didn’t materialize because foreign workers poured into our economy — and our government let them in.

    And here’s yet another twist. The actuaries now tell us those foreign workers are what will keep Social Security solvent for the Baby Boomer generation, and the generations behind them. Without their labor and payroll taxes, not enough revenues will come in. They are our Social Security and Medicare bailout.

    So, be careful of what you wish for.

  12. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hannah’s alibi didn’t hold up, and she continues to spout phony wingnut talking points, yet she persists in wanting us to believe she’s a Democrat. Weird.

  13. 19

    SETEC Astronomy spews:

    @16 Yeah. They were just following orders.

    *blink* Oops. Was that my out-loud-voice?

    That access to zealous and competent defense is a keystone of our legal system is a given. And we’ve all heard how advances in science and technology exonerate those convicted at a time when the facts, as they were presented, were based on the most sound forensics of the day.

    But “It’s wrong to focus on the defense attorneys who knew of the man’s innocence while ignoring the actors in the drama who sent an innocent man to prison” is one of the most wheedling lines bullshit I’ve ever had the displeasure to gag down. They played their own part in the drama, RR, according to the script. Ethically, they’re obviously on solid ground. Morally, they are dancing on coals.

    As Blackstone stated, and with which Franklin agreed: Its better that the guilty get a head start on Lady Justice, than we toss a single innocent person in the gaol.

    In this instance, that is -exactly- what we did. And our much-vaunted legal system performed exactly as it was designed… and in the opposite spirit of its intent.

  14. 20

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    Planned parenthood is getting some unwanted attention. Of course, only by those that aren’t into the systematic killing of blacks. Which party supports the slaughter of blacks? Could it be the same party that used hoses and dogs to keep them under control not too long ago. Time moves on, the democrats are still the racist party.

    Idaho representative: Autumn Kersey, director of development
    Idaho donor: The abortion—I can give money specifically for a black baby, that would be the purpose?
    PP Rep: Absolutely. If you wanted to designate that your gift be used to help an African-American woman in need, then we would certainly make sure that the gift was earmarked for that purpose.
    Idaho donor: Great, because I really faced trouble with affirmative action, and I don’t want my kids to be disadvantaged against black kids. I just had a baby; I want to put it in his name.
    PP Rep: Yes, absolutely.
    Idaho donor: And we don’t, you know we just think, the less black kids out there the better.
    PP Rep: Understandable, understandable.
    Idaho donor: Right. I want to protect my son, so he can get into college
    PP Rep: Alright. Excuse my hesitation, this is the first time I’ve had a donor call and make this kind of request, so I’m excited, and want to make sure I don’t leave anything out.

  15. 21

    SETEC Astronomy spews:

    @17 I’m uncertain as to the basis for your beliefs stated in para 1, RR. I was married to a foreign national for over a year, worked with INS officials while I was an area manager for a restaurant chain, have a friend who works in an alphabet agency dealing with fake documentation, and read the news critically.

    From my perspective, failure to deny and report fake identification has evolved from a lack of applicants for rather menial or poorly-compensated positions. When a manager needs a busser yesterday, because otherwise the boss is going to invite him to find better overtime controls or find a new career, you can bet the first ‘looks okay to me’ SSA card stuck in his face will get photocopied, stapled to the I-9, and stuffed in a personnel jacket.

    Not long ago, I decided to get some callouses on my hands, and give my butt a break from the comfy chair. I’ve got a nice, valid SSA card, a passport, insignificant experience in construction, and a willingness to work under any conditions. Know what? The unions require an apprenticeship, wich has a 6mo minimum waiting list. I’m guessing the roofers and drywall tapers you reference have made it through the union gauntlet. Since the majority of available jobs paying $15+ -are- union from what I’ve seen, that would belie the idea that these workers are using fake ID bought off the street. (Also, I’d like to know what program you’ve used to get input an SSN and find it “is already in use by 20 other applicants”. The one I last used merely told me if a particular SSN was valid, providing the state/region/year in which it was issued. Given that an Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS)is still in development, I’m more curious than ever.)

    Those loitering in the Lowe’s parking lot and by the Battery St on-ramp every morning are just sitting ducks for an INS sweep. And if the tide is not being stemmed, its not from lack of spending, or proposed spending.

    Illegal immigration -is- a problem. Not because it takes American jobs from Americans — I’m just not buying that bunk, because I couldn’t live on Wendy’s drive through wages, and neither could the vast majority of us. Not because the continuing devaluation of the USD makes the prospect of coming here to work somewhat less appealing, and in all liklihood isa practice only kept alive by inertia at this point. Not because it allows “Al Kayda” *snort* to infiltrate our numbers more easily. (“Hernando… I want to talk with you about the injustices my people have suffered at the hands of the putrid American dogs in my homeland.” “Que? Pasa la basura, y no me friegas, okay Mohammed?” “We’ll table this for now. …may I take your plate, sir?…”)

    My own back is up because the people who come here need to be seeking safety, prosperity, opportunity, and a future free from the injustices and inequities of other lands. I sincerely wish them luck, if their choice is to join the great democratic experiment and throw their lot in with ours, for better or worse. If they’re just here to bus tables, hang drywall, and pick lettuce … let’s just make a new “Contract Servitude” work visa category, and have done with it.

  16. 22



    There are lots of Democrats that have a problem with illegal immigration. The differences are generally what we intend to do about it.

    For example, Republicans tend to go in for “bumper sticker” philosophies that sound good, but won’t work. Hannah, I would strongly suggest that you be wary of any “solution” that fits on a bumper.

    But… There is little doubt that illegal immigration is a problem, and there are lots of Democrats that would like to see it stopped.

    The wingnut making the original post at least implies that he’s with the “deport them all” crowd. Somehow we’re supposed to round up, imprison and deport millions of people who’s only crime was to enter the country illegally, while ignoring the consequences of the loss of that much labor.

    Even many Republicans see that as being absurd.

    But… Too often, it seems as if we Democrats somehow believe that entering this country illegally should be commended and that all the people doing so are virtous victims of the evil Bush administration.

    Nobody actually says that, because when it’s written that way, it’s almost as absurd as the proposals of the wingnuts, but that is the impression that some of us give.

    So, Hannah, exactly what would you have us do to stop illegal immigration? Round ‘em up and move ‘em out? Pretty stupid.

    Should we penalize employers that provide the jobs and hence draw in the people? Maybe better, but while some of those employers use illegal immigrant labor because they can hold the threat of deportation over their heads, others simply cannot get hard-working laborers at any price.

    Should we erect a giant, high-tech wall to prevent folks from coming across the border? The East Germans tried that, and it didn’t work.

    One thing is certain. However we look at illegal immigration, it is a problem that needs to be carefully considered and addressed.

    And whatever the solutions are (and we will certainly need several), I sincerely doubt that they will fit on a bumper sticker.

  17. 23

    SETEC Astronomy spews:

    Okay. I listened to every spin of the transcripts.

    In all but the Idaho instance, the actor was working from a scripted agenda where he presented his position as altruistic — seeking to give access to this kind of service to a community in need.

    This yellow spew is the spindoctor bread and butter. I’m personally more than a little disgusted that you chained it to your claims.

    On the other side of that scale, I find myself wishing for a little deus ex-machina in the form of the ceiling falling in on the PP rep in the great potato state.

    “PP Rep: For whatever reason, we’ll accept the money.”
    If you listen to that inflection, and can’t discern the undisguised distaste at the need to accept those funds, you’re in deserate need of a hearing or reality check.

    I’m always interested in learning, and I’d love you to cite these hoses and dogs incidents; its the first I’ve heard of it, though atrocities by/upon anyone are so commonplace throughout history that I won’t feel very surprised at having a credible source presented.

    But — isn’t PP currently receiving Federal funding? And isn’t this a Republican administration? I’m a bit lost.

  18. 24

    SETEC Astronomy spews:

    @22 I can’t help but agree with your sentiments.

    Different cultures have dealt with it differently. Spain and Iraq ignore that portion of the demographic which cannot be accurately tracked (Well… Spain actually builds tenement housing outside the cities which Gypsies visit. Iraq just gassed ‘em, and Iran makes separate ID cards available to them, which allows for them to be charged higher prices for services and goods, and be subject to a curfew).

    The Wall was actually pretty darned effective. I had the opportunity to pass through Checkpoint Charlie several times, and was impressed with the controls. I’m not advocating it, mind you, unlike that frothing maniac from a few years back, whose name I’ve cauterized from my mind.

    There are already substantial penalties in-place for employers who knowingly allow those without proper ID to work for them. Knowingly. That’s the key, of course.

    As the world community naturally begins to devalue our currency, with the dropping desire to emulate Americans and the drooping confidence in the quality of American goods/services… I think we’ll see this issue put to rest within our lifetimes.

  19. 25


    News from the Pierce County Democratic Convention.

    Once again, we have proven Will Rogers’ statement “I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Democrat!

    However, we had some highlights. While we had several inspirational speakers, including Governor Gregoire and Rep Smith, Darcy Burner stole the show. We should actually be hoping that the Republicans spend lots of money in that race, because every dollar they spend trying to defeat Darcy is a dollar wasted for them. She’s gonna stomp him.

    Governor Gregoire gave a rousing speach, but I cannot shake the idea that if Senator Obama wins (and I expect that he will) that we will be losing our Governor to the Obama administration. Probably not VP (but don’t rule it out) but certainly to a cabinet position.

    Fortunately, Lt Governor Owen seems like a pretty good choice to replace her.

    In the convention, we did manage to get through the party platform, but it seems that the Clinton delegation took exception to the County Resolutions calling on the Superdelegates to heed the will of the people.

    They waited until everyone was sent on a five minute break. While I will grant that they waited until the gavel fell at the end of the break, there were still long lines at the bathrooms when they called for a quorum call, effectively ending the convention, and preventing any resolutions from being voted upon.

    All of which leaves me with another quote that seems appropriate. “those who like sausage and the law should never watch them being made“.

  20. 26

    michael spews:


    Count me in as one of the Democrats with a “Problem” with illegal immigration.

    What to do about it? I haven’t a freaking clue.

  21. 27

    Hannah spews:

    My solution for illegals, GO AFTER AND CHARGE THE EMPLOYERS!!! Build the “fence” and any and all illegals caught in crime, immediate deportation. Setup a plan to legalize the illegals that contribute to our society. Remember, the money they make here, doesn’t stay here, it goes home to their familes in Mexico. Those employers who hire illegals should pay HUGE fines and face possible jail time for breaking the law. No handouts, either financial or other, until they have been here for a minimum of 5 years.

  22. 28


    Ok, Hannah, but what about seasonal farm work?

    Many farmers cannot get sufficient labor at any wages. The few times when we have managed to slow (not stop) the influx of labor from Mexico, farmers were unable to get US workers to take the jobs, and crops rotted in the fields.

    The work is semi-skilled and very repetitive. It’s hard, dull work, but if it could be done by machines, it would be.

    Considering that there are folks not just willing, but anxious for those jobs, how much sense does it make to leave those crops unpicked, while letting those families starve?

    Certainly, sweat shops where women are locked into small rooms making clothing, and even farmers unwilling to provide decent working conditions should be prosecuted.

    But employers willing to provide decent working conditions and at least a moderate living wage are a different matter.

    Additionally, the folks that are looking at this have noticed that there seems to be a bit of racism to the argument. Not with everyone, but with some.

    When the Young Republicans organize a “Tag an illegal” event, they don’t seem to go after Canadians. They look at those brown folks with an accent.

    I hate to break it to you, but I served with third generation citizens who had an accent, and spoke Spanish at home. While some have argued for a national language, we don’t have one.

    In some areas of our country, Russian is a predominant language. In other areas, it’s Cantonese, or Creole French, or German, or even Spanish. Some of those regions are larger than some European countries. Add in areas where those languages are common but not predominant, and you get a lot of citizens with accents and foriegn features.

    So, there is the problem of racially selective enforcement of immigration laws, then there is the question of how we’re going to provide the labor that we have come to depend upon, and additionally there is the question of how those folks willing to provide that labor will feed their families (and yes, I am concerned about them, too).

    Lots of hard questions, and no simple answers.

  23. 29

    mark spews:

    @26 How about we penalize congress for allowing this to go on. Obama saying to strip the pay of CEO’s. How about
    congress not getting paid. They have way, way, overspent
    and everyone blames Bush when they are the ones that write
    the check. How about if the budget don’t balance, no paycheck for congress like how it works in the real world.

  24. 30


    One more example, from my own youth.

    One of my earliest jobs was washing dishes in a family restaurant. It was dirty, nasty work in hot, uncomfortable working conditions.

    I took the job because I wanted to learn how to cook. I got the job because I was the only citizen that had applied for the job in months. (Not to date myself, but we’re talking about considerably more than thirty years ago.)

    There were a few folks that had worked at that restaurant for years, washing dishes and bussing tables. Hard working (and I learned a lot about hard work from trying to keep up with them) honorable people that paid taxes and stayed out of trouble. Their English often wasn’t good enough to move up to cooking, although several had taken ESL classes at night, and had been promoted. Those were the folks teaching me to cook.

    The jobs didn’t pay a lot, but did pay a living wage. The experience of working and learning from those folks served me well later, when I joined the Navy.

  25. 31

    Hannah spews:


    You are correct in so many hard questions. When it comes to far laborers, we need to re-inforce the work visa. Keep tabs on ALL illegal immigrants, not just Mexico or Canada.
    Fortunately, if you are an illegal over waters, it is 99% more diffult to get into the US unless it’s to “visit”. My uncle is married (5 years now) to a Philippine and she STILL cannot get a visa.

    We need to “cheap” labor as most seem to think, me, well let the farmers pay better wages and we can pay higher prices for fruits and veggies and what not. We have to accept responsibility ourselves that there are so many illegals in this country because we want cheap prices.

    Another thing we could do is force those on the welfare system to work these jobs or forfeit the welfare. And earned income credits should have a base amount, say 20k, in earnings, before one can claim the EIC!

  26. 32



    The President sets the tone and the agenda. He gets the credit when things go well, even when he had little to do with it.

    And, when things go as badly as they have over the last eight years, he gets the blame, especially when his party was in control for most of that time, and has acquiesced to his every whim.

    Sorry, Mark. The current mess gets laid on the President’s doorstep. My suggestion is that it should be placed in a large paper bag and set ablaze.

  27. 33



    I’m well aware of the immigration mess, especially dealing with family members from the Philippines. I was a Navy Counselor, after all.

    One wife of a Filipino Sailor was living in Manila during a rather ugly time. Letters and calls to the State Dept went unheard. There was a seven year wait for spouses of legal immigrants from the Philippines.

    I finally was able to solve the problem by getting the Sailor orders to Japan, where he could take his wife (as the sponsored spouse of a Sailor) and she could apply for entrance from Japan (with a much shorter wait).

    As for higher wages. Perhaps if the wages were raised high enough, workers would come, but how much are we willing to pay for that produce? I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t do that work for fifty dollars an hour. It’s hard, dull, repetitive work, and many folks would happily take less money for more interesting work.

    As to your comments about Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). First, full time (2080 hours per year) at the federal minimum wage is $12,168 annually. This assumes no loss of job during the year, no time off for sickness or family emergency.

    Next, the following conditions must be met to claim EITC:

    - Must have earned income

    – Must have a valid Social Security number

    – Investment income is limited to $2,900

    – Filing status can’t be “married filing separately”

    – Generally must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien all year

    – Cannot be a qualifying child of another person

    – Cannot file Form 2555 or 2555-EZ (related to foreign earned income)

    So, at least some of your concerns are already covered in the current law.

    Finally, with regards to your concerns about welfare, you must remember that President Clinton signed some rather sweeping welfare reform that limited the welfare benefits that a person could claim. Those changes include manditory job training.

    Farm labor is hard, transient work, not well suited to young single mothers and people with disabilities. Consider the matter from a practical perspective. Then dig out your humanity and consider it from a humanitarian perspective. Then look at it again from a long-term perspective, considering that job training is part of the welfare program.

    You’ll notice that requiring folks on welfare to perform farm labor doesn’t work from any of those perspectives.

  28. 34

    Hannah spews:


    I am not talking specifically about those single mothers or disabled persons on welfare that are doing the job training. I’m talking about those who refuse to work menial jobs but instead live off food stamps and handouts. Or on welfare for the time allowed, off for the time needed, then back on, all to avoid the “madatory” job training, which isn’t really enforced (kinda like unemployment here requires job search logs yet you can fill them out when you get that call) My mom was on welfare when she left my biological sperm donor but vowed immediately to get off and this was when it was impossible, but she did it! I know of people abusing the SSDI bennies by claiming gross claims of disabilty while I know truely disabled persons denied SSDI. I am taking about the entire government “take care of people” system. We need a huge reform.

  29. 35



    Just how many able-bodied adult males without primary child-care responsibilities do you think are currently on the welfare roles?

    Are there some? Certainly, but most of them are in violation of the current rules. They’ve lied to get accepted, and are cheating to stay on.

    Considering the case load of most welfare workers, enforcement isn’t likely to get much better, and proposals to increase the size of the departments is generally greeted with howls of “government waste” from the right.

    When we cannot enforce the rules as written, making new rules will only impact on the folks that are honestly trying to use the system as it was intended.

    Liars and cheats will find a way to trick any system.

  30. 36


    One more note. I agree that we should enforce the current rules. Case loads for social service workers is much too high, and additional people are needed to do that.

    If you wish to advocate that change, then I’ll happily chime in with a big AMEN!

  31. 37

    Hannah spews:

    We do need to hire more caseworkers, not to just deal with the fraud, but to deal with the abusive parents out there. Our system is a total mess. Kids are being abused and dying because we refuse to fund DSHS. I have always been an advocate of children, would love to be able to adopt, but the cost and all is out of my league. My boss has 2 adopted children (from Haiti anc China) plus his two natural born. He said adopting internationally is hard and lots of paperwork, but not nearly as much as here in the US and about 1/2 the price, their last adoption just closed a week before last Christmas and it took them 2 years.

  32. 38

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #27 John Barelli says:

    Ok, Hannah, but what about seasonal farm work?

    John, how’s the illegal immigrant problem in your area? Do you want to hear how bad the problem is closer to the border or don’t you care?
    Do you have any idea how many blacks are being slaughtered by illegal immigrants?
    Just recently here in la la land, a woman serving in iraq came home to find her son (honor roll, football scholarship) killed in the street by an illegal alien that was prematurely released from jail on weapon charges within 24 hours of his release. There was a public meeting with the city council and the parents and the community. What happened? The city council decided there needed to be tougher paparazzi laws.
    Since this isn’t whites killing blacks not a single democrat cares. No jesse or al demanding investigations. Not even a comment from obama.
    So ask yourself, do you care if illegal immigrants ethnically cleanse south central los angeles?

  33. 39

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    And for those that don’t know… the los angeles city council is as liberal as you can get. The mayor is an ex-gangbanger with ties to la raza.

  34. 40

    Puddybud spews:

    Marvin Stamn: I posted story after story of these illegal latinos killing blacks in SCLA over the years. Nary a peep from the HAs 16%ers. Why? They don’t care as long as they’re party is in power no skin off their nose if a few inner city blacks are killed.

    The boy you were discussing above was killed because some illegal latinos in a car pulled up and wanted him to acknowledge them. Luckily the caught bastard who killed the football star. Notice clueless idiot who claims he’s haif spanish doesn’t have anything to say.

    The only way these HA 16%er Moonbat!s will wake up is if someone close to them gets shot and them they’ll have a Mike Dukakis deer in the headlights moment when Bernard Shaw asked him what would he do if his wife Kitty was attacked.

    “Duh gee whiz I don’t know Bernie”!

  35. 42

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #12 Roger Rabbit says:

    The working class that was lifted up by half a century of Democratic policies

    Didn’t the people have anything to do with lifting themselves up? In your opinion it was only due to the democrat government policies that people enjoyed a better quality of life?
    This is the liberal mindset, it has nothing to do with the individual only the government. This is why democrats don’t judge people on the content of their character but the voting block they belong to.
    Note to rabbit, just because you lived off of taxpayer money your adult life doesn’t mean everyone should. The country needs hard working industrious people to pay the taxes so the less skilled can have government jobs.

  36. 43

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #41 Puddybud says:

    Marvin – Isn’t South Central LA Maxine Waters territory?
    Where is her mouth?

    Good point Puddybud, forgot about the mouth of south central.
    In my observations about race… the ONLY time democrats care about minorities is when they can use them to point out that republicans/whites are racist and how they need the democrats to protect them. Since these illegal gangs are definitely not white nor republican why complain. The gangs are doing the work of the democrats.

  37. 44


    Marvin (and Puddy)

    If by “nary a peep” you mean lots of editorials and several discussion threads on this blog, you’ve got a point.

    Of course, if the only “peep” you’re listening for is a bunch of folks agreeing with you that we should round up everyone with a suntan and an accent and bus them all to a remote jungle village somewhere in Central America, I can understand your problem.

    Marvin. Had you bothered to read some of my posts, you would have noticed a few observations about being the only citizen willing to take a menial job. I didn’t check for green cards, but it’s a safe bet that most of those folks were not here legally. This isn’t a new problem.

    Additionally, like so many others, I’m a transplant here. I came to Washington with the Navy in 1979, and spent more than half my Navy career up here, but I’ve still got family in Oceanside and Pomona, down in California, and was stationed for almost eight years at various bases in San Diego.

    So, I have some small insight into the problem.

    I also note that you went “knee-jerk” on me, without apparently even bothering to read the comments I wrote. Pray tell me, where do you get the idea that I do not consider illegal immigration to be a problem?

    Read a bit farther, and you might even find the comment:

    “But… Too often, it seems as if we Democrats somehow believe that entering this country illegally should be commended and that all the people doing so are virtous victims of the evil Bush administration.

    Nobody actually says that, because when it’s written that way, it’s almost as absurd as the proposals of the wingnuts, but that is the impression that some of us give.”

    So, how about bothering to actually read the comments before automatically condemning them? I realize that the last thing you wingnuts want is actual discussion of the issue, because it would take away some of those wonderful “bumper sticker” philosophies you love so much, but still, you could at least avoid saying things that make it so obvious that you hadn’t even bothered to read the post.

  38. 45

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #44 John Barelli says:

    Marvin. Had you bothered to read some of my posts, you would have noticed a few observations about being the only citizen willing to take a menial job.

    I don’t want to call you a liar but will you provide proof that you are the only “citizen” willing to take a menial job? Never mind, you are a liar!!! I worked menial jobs during high school/college which disproves your theory “about being the only citizen willing to take a menial job.”

    I came to Washington with the Navy in 1979

    Using your observations from 30 years ago doesn’t quite cut it in my book. 30 years ago democrats were the “ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country” party. In the last couple decades the democrat party has flip-flopped into the “ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you” party.

  39. 46

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #33 John Barelli says:

    I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t do that work for fifty dollars an hour. It’s hard, dull, repetitive work, and many folks would happily take less money for more interesting work.

    $50 an hour X 40 hours = $2000 week = @$100,000 year. How much of an elitist snob are you to think that Americans wouldn’t flock to this job? Are you sincerely this out of touch with your fellow Americans? Do you consider garbage pickup interesting? How about fixing potholes in the street?

  40. 47

    YLB spews:

    “ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you”

    GWB asked his country to put him to the head of the line for the Texas Air National Guard.

    He served miserably dishonoring those who went to Vietnam in his place.

  41. 48

    YLB spews:

    47 – Whoops. Scratch that. GWB asked his dad to put him at the head of the line.

    Or maybe he didn’t ask. The scared shitless look on his face told daddy what needed to be done.

    In any case, Papa took care of everything.

  42. 49



    Since you’ve worked so hard to misinterpret and misconstrue my words, it’s almost a shame to correct you.

    But, just in case some wandering person reads this thread and doesn’t know you, I’ll take it on.

    First, your statement:

    “I don’t want to call you a liar but will you provide proof that you are the only “citizen” willing to take a menial job? Never mind, you are a liar!!! I worked menial jobs during high school/college which disproves your theory “about being the only citizen willing to take a menial job.”

    The point was to have you actually go read the post in question, not that I was the only citizen within the entire US population that had ever taken on a menial job.

    So, just to make it perfectly clear. The original post was regarding a job I took over thirty years ago. I was the only citizen that had applied for or taken that job in months, and no other citizen worked in that job during my tenure. You weren’t there, unless you’re hispanic and spoke very limited English at the time.

    To any reasonable reader, that would have been obvious, but for a wingnut trying to pick out phrases to attack, I realize that I should have have included the entire original post, or worded the post differently.

    Next, your post back at 12:25 PM.

    The post speaks for itself if you simply read the words. No, I would not take a job doing farm labor at $50.00 per hour. You even managed to quote my reasoning, while apparently refraining from actually reading the words.

    “I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t do that work for fifty dollars an hour. It’s hard, dull, repetitive work, and many folks would happily take less money for more interesting work.”

    Since you can type, I presume that you can also read. Try it sometime. I wouldn’t do it for what even you seem to agree is absurdly high wages, because it is “hard, dull, repetitive work“, and many folks (yours truly included) consider job satisfaction to be more important than higher wages.

    Only a complete moron, or a wingnut deliberately trying, could possibly have misconstrued that statement to read anything else. So, which are you? (I realize that the two groups are not mutually exclusive, and that the most likely answer is actually “both”.)

    Oh, and that crack:

    “Using your observations from 30 years ago doesn’t quite cut it in my book. 30 years ago democrats were the “ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country” party. In the last couple decades the democrat party has flip-flopped into the “ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you” party.

    Well, considering you’re busily berating one Democrat that spent most of his adult life serving his country, and is still on call (that’s how the retired reserve works) it seems that perhaps you should re-think that.

    Or perhaps the many Veterans at yesterday’s Pierce County Democratic Convention could convince you.

    Or, more likely, this is just another one of those lies that you wingnuts keep shouting, knowing that the reality is that Republicans all seem to have “more important things” to do than actually serve their country.

    And why should you, after all, when we Democrats keep signing up?

    Marvin Stamm. Chickenhawk or Yellow Elephant? We report, you decide.


  43. 51

    Puddybud spews:

    John: My nary a peep comment is over the poor high school senior cut down needlessly by illegals. Don’t read anything else into it.

    I haven’t been able to determine if Maxine went to the funeral (I doubt it) because she would be questioned about her worthless immigration position if it was my son.

  44. 54

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #52 Puddybud says:

    Why are all the HA 16%ers not talking about Jimmy Cahhhhhhrter visiting the Hamas leader?

    I’m sure the HA 16% don’t put a lot of faith in carter anymore. He’s pretty old and frail. After all, at his age how many rockets could he realistically launch over the border into israel.

  45. 55

    YLB spews:

    how many rockets could he realistically launch over the border into israel.

    Where? From Egypt maybe?

    Ignorant ass.

  46. 56

    YLB spews:

    I posted story after story of these illegal latinos

    So f’ing what? What’s your solution? Round up all the brown skins , pack em in cattle cars and ship ‘em South?

    Of course it is. It’s the wet dream of the Tancredo/Romney wing of your ugly party.

    Where was the comeback from the ‘hood? Is learning a little Spanish beyond them?

    If an illegal latino commits a crime, he or she is subject to prosecution with the penalty of fine, incarceration coupled with eventual deportation.

    You think an f’ing wall built by KBR, Bechtel or some other Republican outfit is going to keep them out? Who’s going to harvest the food you buy at Wal-Mart or remodel your kitchen for cheap?

    Next time you sing a paen to Saint Raygun, remember that he signed an amnesty.


  47. 57



    It is a sad commentary that a murder isn’t really news any more, but that is the case today. Certainly, the right wing blogs are making hay from this, but it appears to be simply a tragedy.

    Marvin managed to link to an article about Hispanic gangs targeting blacks, but the article made no mention of illegal immigrants. It’s a pretty common tactic, railing against illegal immigration, then implying that all Hispanics are in that group. It’s called “racism”, and I’m sure you’ve seen similar tactics used against blacks.

    Oddly enough, when trying to research the murder that Mr. Stamm referred to, one of the first sites that showed up on my search was ( ). Well, at least those folks found something nice to say about a black man.

    As to Rep Pelosi’s stance in illegal immigration, while some of the right wing sites complain about her votes, the only site I found that claimed any sort of comprehensive statement about her “policy” was a satirical article.

    I did, however, note that on at least one of those sites, the “Satire By John W. Lillpop” notice was in very small type.

    As to the other complaints about her stance on immigration, they seem to focus on individual votes, some of which I agree with, some I’m not so sure.

    She does seem to prefer doing nothing to doing something bad or unworkable, but I’d like to see a bit more along the lines of positive action vs. simply blocking bad ideas.

    She did support the Summary of Security Through Regularized Immigration and a Vibrant Economy Act of 2007 (STRIVE ACT of 2007)

    The main complaint I heard was that the bill was very long and complicated, but considering how large and complicated the problem is, any short, simple solution is unlikely to actually solve the problem.

    So, while the right wing papers and blogs have been happy to tell us what Speaker Pelosi thinks, it seems unlikely that they actually have any idea of how she comes to her position.

    And before you say it, yes, we keep making claims that we somehow know what is going on in Vice President Cheney’s mind, President Bush’s mind and various other Republican minds, occasionally even including yours.

    But seriously, I’ll assume that she actually supports the program that she signed on to and publicly endorsed. Although that bill has died, it had some good points, and hopefully will be resurrected.

  48. 58

    My Left Foot spews:

    From (un)SP tonight:

    Blogger Radio
    Local Media News
    by Eric Earling, 08:01 PM

    Tune in tomorrow/Monday am to KUOW for a bloggers hour from 10-11, as part of the regular Weekday program. You can listen via radio, live online, or via MP3 at the Weekday webpage after the fact.

    The line-up, as moderated by Steve Scher, will include myself (taking time off of work to carry the conservative banner), our friend David Goldstein of Horse’s Ass, Tom Forbes at Palousitics, and Liz Burlingame of SeattlePoliticore.

    After the show Goldy and I will engage in a sumo match wearing those fake suits you’re familiar with if you’re a fan of The Office. Loser donates $100 to the other guy’s candidate for governor.

    Just kidding.

    Eric is attempting to be funny. Wonder how long before Stefan gets penis envy and tries to update (un)SP? Wonder if Eric has a hundred dollars? Maybe he could borrow it from Stefan’s wife? She seems to be the only “bread winner” over there.

  49. 60

    Puddybud spews:

    I guessing clueless idiot had to watch recently as his “wife” stepped out on him, so he is projecting like always…

    That was only a guess as we know he doesn’t pay taxes and is a continual governmental sucker on the governmental teat.

  50. 61

    Puddybud spews:

    clueless idiot: Since you like to speak Spanish I know you know what this is…

    Vete a la verga, maricon.

  51. 62

    YLB spews:

    Calling me a cuckold?

    You spend an awful lot of time here Stupes.

    You said you’d stay away and you just can’t stop.

    Stay as long as you want. There’s going to be a big party in November!

  52. 63

    Puddybud spews:

    clueless idiot: I gotsta do the yeoman’s task of clarifying the BULLSHITTIUM you and others post wirh facts, PuddyFacts!

  53. 64

    YLB spews:

    63 – We believe Republicans suck. They’ve been bad for this country.

    And the country agrees with us.