Comments

  1. 1

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    For more fun with Fred and his pathetic campaign, see the latest issue of Rolling Stone.

  2. 4

    spews:

    We need to redouble our efforts to ensure that all soldiers have the opportunity to vote — and to bring criminal prosecutions against the Democrat operatives who are keeping soldiers from voting.

    Here in Washington, we are unfortunate that we have corrupt elections run by partisan election officials who are party hacks. Repeated mistakes and missteps have occurred in many of our counties, repeated evidence of deliberate vote tampering of voting machines in King County.

    This system has proved highly effective in assuring that deployed military personnel are deprived of their vote. For example, in the 2004 governor’s election, Washington’s largest county — King County — mailed military and overseas absentee ballots too late for voters to receive them.

    In King County alone, overseas military personnel and civilian votes were deprieved of their right to vote in the 2004 general election.

    And given that Gov. Gregoire won by only 133 votes statewide, it’s a certainty that Democrat voter fraud put Gov. Gregoire in the governor’s mansion.

    Democratic Party leaders understand this, and realize that in addition to being the dishonest and law-breaking thing to do, it’s in their own self-interest to discourage military voting.

  3. 5

    YLB spews:

    a fucking dingbat and an embarassment.

    Mirror, mirror on the wall. Who’s the biggest bet welsher of all?

    Pay your fucking gambling debt.

  4. 7

    YLB spews:

    4 – This comment is full of lies. And you’ve stolen the handle of a regular here. One of the moderators will be deleting your garbage soon I hope.

    The truth is that, in the 2004 election, military voters in KC voted at the same rate as the rest of the voting population which was a record high for turnout. The reason ballots went out so close to the deadline was the nearness of primaries to the general. Primaries have now been moved back to address this.

    Another truth is Karl Rove and his vote fraud suppression and fraud squad used caging techniques to block poor and minority voters from voting in battleground states. A special targeted targeted group was minorities performing military service overseas.

    Your comment is a host of vicious, vacuous lies.

  5. 8

    spews:

    re 4 — You should be banned from commenting. It’s tiresome to have to debunk your BS on a daily basis.

    And you’d enjoy being banned because it would feed your persecution complex.

  6. 10

    Piper Scott spews:

    @7…YLB…

    My day is complete…Karl Rove has been blamed for something; all bad things stem from the mind of Karl Rove.

    In a former life, Karl Rove designed the Edsel.

    Karl Rove conceived of Lunchables.

    Karl Rove convinced Lou Piniella to yank Carlos Zambrano in game 1 of the playoff series between his Cubs and the D-backs.

    Karl Rove is personally responsible for Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction. He loosened the threads holding the buttons on her costume.

    Karl Rove programs network TV.

    Karl Rove is responsible for the sub-prime debacle. He thought it was about roast beef hero sandwiches, so he sold cattle futures short resulting in cattle ranchers facing foreclosures. Dominoe effect from there on out.

    Karl Rove convinced the French that Jerry Lewis is consequential.

    Karl Rove slipped the Seattle City Council mickeys, which was unnecessary given how collectively stupid and dumb-jack that outfit is. Exhibit A: The vote to vote next year on licensing legislation for nightspots that are troubled NOW.

    Karl Rove designed the EMP.

    Karl Rove is secretly the brains behind Clay Bennett.

    Karl Rove and Goldy…separated at birth?

    Karl Rove has his Lexus washed and waxed by John Edwards.

    That sucker is all over the place!

    The Piper

  7. 11

    michael spews:

    Yet another thing we got right in WWII that we’re getting wrong today.

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....72721.html
    “We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or pingpong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with one of Hitler’s commanders, Rudolph Hess.

  8. 13

    spews:

    @11

    “We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or pingpong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with one of Hitler’s commanders, Rudolph Hess.

    Do ragheads play chess? We could give it a try!!

  9. 15

    michael spews:

    Guess having kids is a bad thing as it might ruin ones “hourglass”figure. How stupid can we get. And of course if we had some form of nationalized/socialized those poor women might get wait listed for 2 months before having this critical procedure done. How unfair!

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....72715.html

    These unforgiving standards are the offspring of pop culture and technology, a union that treats biological changes as if they were as optional as hair color. Gossip magazines excoriate celebrity moms who don’t immediately lose their “baby weight.” Even Cookie, a luxury parenting magazine, recently ran an article that described post-pregnancy breasts as “the ultimate indignity” and promoted implant surgery; a photo of droopy water-filled balloons accompanied the article.

    Many women struggle with the impact of aging and pregnancy on their bodies. But the marketing of the “mommy makeover” characterizes pregnancy and childbirth as maladies with disfiguring aftereffects that can be repaired with the help of scalpels.

    “The message is that, after having children, women’s bodies change for the worse,” said Diana Zuckerman, the president of the National Research Center for Women and Families, a nonprofit group in Washington, D.C. If marketing could turn the post-pregnancy body “into a socially unacceptable thing, think of how big your audience would be and how many surgeries you could sell them,” she said.

  10. 16

    michael spews:

    “Even Cookie, a luxury parenting magazine”

    WTF is a luxury parenting magazine? Does it come with heated leather pages and GPS?

  11. 17

    Piper Scott spews:

    @11…M…

    Go read Ex Parte Quirin…

    FDR had six German saboteurs who slipped into the US at Long Island from a submarine, caught, tried by a tribunal, appealed to SCOTUS, and executed all within six-weeks.

    Talk about your government efficiency.

    Great opinion piece in the 9/24 edition of US News by Michael Barone on how we’ve over-lawyered the military. It’s getting so a soldier or Marine can’t take a crap without getting a legal opinion on whether it constitutes a violation of the Geneva Accords.

    The Piper

  12. 20

    Piper Scott spews:

    I see where the average age of NPR listeners is 53. Talk about your aging demographic? No wonder you feel as though what you’re listening to got filtered through a colostomy bag!

    “Funding for this program is provided by a grant from Depends, the incontinent product of choice for the dwindling number of aging lefties whose fading hearing allow them to listen to NPR.”

    The Piper

  13. 21

    YLB spews:

    Hey Pooper,

    What did I say in my comment that wasn’t true?

    Got any other neo-con bullshit you care sell me today? How’s the commissions on that?

  14. 22

    Piper Scott spews:

    @19…M…

    Somehow I don’t think that those who fly airliners filled with people into skyscrapers, lop off the heads of kidnap victims, send mentally handicapped kids with explosives strapped to their bodies into crowds of people…play a lot of chess.

    The Piper

  15. 23

    Piper Scott spews:

    @21…YLB…

    You make assertions and spin legends…But you prove nothing.

    BTW…my Marine son was screwed out of his ballot in 2004 – a slam-dunk Dubya vote – by the klutzes at King County Elections…Couldn’t bother to mail his absentee ballot to him in time. It reached him…after the election.

    The Piper

  16. 24

    YLB spews:

    Gee Pooper,

    Your remarks this morning have a keener edge. I find that typical of the attitude of a salesman who is slowly realizing that his target market has rejected the product he’s selling – or the salesman himself.

  17. 25

    michael spews:

    @22

    Still missing the point and btw the Germans weren’t exactly nice to Jews, gays, gypsies and Russians.

    Why respond to a post if you’re not going to read the article it is about and respond to it on it’s merits?

  18. 26

    YLB spews:

    Pooper @ 23

    Ok where’s the DOJ then if something illegal happened? They were all over Missouri and Wisconsin – bullshit prosecutions by the way that were politically motivated and overturned on appeal.

    Sorry Pooper, your vote fraud product isn’t selling too well.

  19. 27

    michael spews:

    @26

    The EPA has pretty much gotten out of prosecuting polluters as well.

    http://www.thenewstribune.com/.....67991.html

    WASHINGTON – The Environmental Protection Agency’s pursuit of criminal cases against polluters has dropped off sharply during the Bush administration, with the number of prosecutions, new investigations and total convictions all down by more than a third, according to Justice Department and EPA data.

  20. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Health Care Bushit

    “Bush used his [weekly] radio address to once again make the case that … ‘Government-run health care would deprive Americans of the choice and competition that comes from the private market,’ he said. ‘It would cause huge increases in government spending.'”

    Quoted under fair use; for complete story and/or copyright info see* http://news.aol.com/story/_a/b.....1409990002

    * Copyright 2007 Roger Rabbit Literary Enterprises, JPSP (judgment proof sole proprietorship); if you want to use a disclaimer, write your own, Puddi Ripoffski!!!

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: To analyze this Bushit, let’s first examine what “choice and competition” from the private market have given us:

    World’s most expensive health care
    25% overhead costs
    Incredibly complex and confusing insurance system
    People with chronic health problems denied insurance
    Numerous coverage exclusions
    Insurance companies refuse to pay legitimate claims
    Employer-based insurance system collapsing
    17% of population uninsured
    Arbitrary billing practices by providers
    Comparison shopping impossible
    Quality of care worse than many third-world countries
    Shorter life spans than most developed countries

    Now let’s look at what so-called “socialized” health care (i.e., government programs) have given us:

    Covers veterans, seniors, children, and poor people
    No one turned away due to age, health, or inability to pay
    Quality of care in government clinics as good as, or better than, private sector
    Lower costs — only 1/2% A&O (administration and overhead) in Medicare program
    Covering everyone would cost less than wasteful and gap-ridden private system

    Gee — it sure looks as though in head-to-head competition private health care LOSES HANDS DOWN!!! Another fucking market failure.

    So — what’s stopping us from scrapping our antiquated, dysfunctional, Rube Goldberg private health care system? Two things: Profiteering and ideology. The people who run our health care system could care less whether you live or die; all they care about is bloated executive compensation and fat profits for shareholders.

    (Disclaimer — Roger Rabbit owns no shares of any fat, bloated, overcompensated health insurance companies, a situation I’m discussing with my stockbroker with a view toward getting a piece of this lucrative action for myself!)

    Anytime a wingnut like the Bushitter In Chief starts flinging around terms like “socialism,” you can bet there’s big profits involved, so just follow the money.

    For starters, I’d like to know what Carlyle Group’s holdings in health insurance companies are. Conflict of interest, maybe?

  21. 30

    YLB spews:

    Couldn’t bother to mail his absentee ballot to him in time. It reached him…after the election.

    Again, the ballots were mailed out on time and came back in proportion to how the rest of the county voted.

    By the way, it’s legal for your son to scrawl I vote for Dubya and Dino on a scrap of toilet paper signed Son of Pooper and KC has to count the vote. Why didn’t he do that?

  22. 31

    spews:

    Piper Scott,

    “my Marine son was screwed out of his ballot in 2004 – a slam-dunk Dubya vote”

    Horseshit. If your son wanted to vote and the lack of a ballot prevented him from doing so, then your son is an idiot. All he had to do was request a federal write-in ballot from his unit’s voting assistance officer, fill it out, and send it in.

    “by the klutzes at King County Elections…Couldn’t bother to mail his absentee ballot to him in time. It reached him…after the election.

    If you believe that you are also and idiot. King County mailed all overseas/military ballots in early October by the federal deadline (on the heals of a September primary).

    Here are the fact, Squirt. King County mailed 15,289 military/overseas ballots in 2004. Of these, 12,694 were returned and 12,474 counted. So 83.02% percent of overseas/military personnel who requested mail-in ballots from King County had their ballots counted in the November, 2004 election—a turn-out rate that matches King County’s overall 82.98% turnout in that election.

    If you son didn’t get his ballot, it was either because the post office or the military mail system failed to deliver it on time. Either way, the absence of a ballot did not prevent him from voting.

  23. 32

    Piper Scott spews:

    @23…YLB…

    At some point gross negligence crosses a line becoming criminality. I never asserted criminality. What I do know is this: my Marine son’s ballot didn’t arrive until after the election.

    The klutzes at Elections don’t have the brains to criminally conspire, they just continue to screw the electoral pooch, witness letting 71,000 messed up voters’ pamphlets go out to North and East King County ZIP codes.

    And how about the patriots with ACORN? Let’s hear it for fraud!

    And all those crawling out of the woodwork to condemn efforts by some states to require photo ID of prospective voters? SOMEBODY doesn’t want honest elections, and those who oppose reforms like I-25 or photo ID from voters are usually…who?

    BTW…not trying to sell you anything. My guess is that your credit is so bad, not even your cash is any good!

    The Piper

  24. 33

    spews:

    YLB @ 24

    “Your remarks this morning have a keener edge. I find that typical of the attitude of a salesman who is slowly realizing that his target market has rejected the product he’s selling – or the salesman himself.”

    Yep…Piper Scott seems to be descending into Puddyhood! Just what we need ’round here…another babbling lunatic.

  25. 34

    Piper Scott spews:

    @25…M…

    What is your point? I read the linked article – sounded like those aging enemies had a gay old time at their reunion – but it proved…nothing.

    In WW II, many Germans were the baddest ass dudes of all time. But others – Rommel, for example – weren’t.

    Today, on the other hand, we’re dealing with baddest ass dude-wannabes…and there are no Rommels.

    The nice boys being held at Gitmo playing chess? Probably try to shove a rook in your eye and a bishop down your throat.

    Don’t believe your fantasies…

    The Piper

  26. 35

    Piper Scott spews:

    @31…D…

    You can play cute with nice, tidy rules, but read what the P-I’s Robert Jamieson, no Republican, wrote about the reality of ballots and bullets: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ert29.html

    What my experience showed me was that there was a clear indifference on the part of KC Elections to respect the service of military personnel and recognize that sometimes office procedures don’t recognize realities of life.

    Now, my son wasn’t in such a nice, tidy situation such that he could spend the time to do this, that, or the other. Admittedly, he wasn’t in a combat zone at the time, but he was up to it doing his Marine thing.

    Sure wish KC Elections had his dedication to duty to not just do the minimum required, but go the extra mile and then again some more to get the job done.

    Should let you know…the lance corporal doesn’t blame the post office or the Marine Corps…he blames KC Elections whose job it was to ensure that his right to vote was respected.

    The Piper

  27. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    A prudent rabbit with a head for business spends money to save money. To illustrate, although rabbits don’t need cars because we have a perfectly good pair of hind feet, let’s say I owned an old car whose monthly repair bills exceeded the payment on a new car. Wouldn’t it make sense to get rid of that old car and buy a new one? Of course it would, because I would SAVE MONEY, and as a bonus get to drive a shiny new status symbol!

    Now let’s apply this analogy to our antiquated, dysfunctional, Rube Goldberg private health care system with A&O costs 50 times those of Medicare. Is there someplace this system is hemorraghing money, where we’re throwing good money after bad, money that’s going down a rathole, as in the case of continuing to repair an old car that continues to break down?

    Hmmmmmmm …

    Didn’t have to think too hard about THAT ONE!!! What we OBVIOUSLY should do is GET RID OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, and let the government administer the premium collection and payment system. How would that work?

    First of all, we could take the 25% of A&O wasted on paying insurance companies whose only function is to deny claims and use it to cover the 17% of Americans who don’t have health care — virtually all of whom are moderate-to-low income or unemployed workers and their families. (Welfare bums, the disabled, senior citizens, members of Congress, and other non-working members of society all have coverage under various government or private programs.)

    Then, we could use the 8% left over to improve quality of care and reduce premiums.

    The Bushitter In Chief is trying to scare people away from these benefits by calling it “socialism.” He’s hoping, of course, that his emotionally-charged rhetoric will incapacitate the public’s capacity for rational thinking. Because if people think rationally about this issue, it will make sense to choose the insurance carrier who provides better care, at lower cost, and turns no one away:

    The government.

    Now let’s see how much sense it makes to continue doing business with the people who are going to save you from “socialism.” Let’s construct a hypothetical.

    Let’s say the average household spends $12,000 a year on health care (including insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and non-covered items).

    Now let’s save 24.5% of that by firing the insurance companies and hiring the government to collect premiums and administer payments. (Some people will now refer to the “premiums” as “taxes” and claim “your taxes went up by a huge amount,” but even if this is true, your insurance expenses went down by an even huger amount, so you end up with more money.)

    That gives us $9,060 per household. Now let’s add in the 17% uninsured. That gives us $10,916 per household ($9,060/.83). According to my calculations, “socialized medicine” and “higher taxes” save you $1,084 per year.

    Okay, so you’re paying a $10,916 “tax increase” — but you’re NOT paying $12,000 tribute to pirate capitalism — so you COME OUT AHEAD!!! And, most important, you’ll have peace of mind, because you’ll no longer have to worry about being bankrupted by a catastrophic illness or hassle with getting your insurance company to pay the claims. No more EOBs, coordination of coverage, phone calls to question charges, and all that bullshit.

    But only if you can get past the rhetoric and bushit, and look at the facts, and make rational decisions about your health care.

  28. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @39 Thank you for reminding me, sweetie! That didn’t slip my consciousness, but it didn’t slip my lips, either. You have corrected my omission.

  29. 41

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    29

    Let’s not forget that if you can’t afford insurance, your only choices are to go without, or to go to the emergency room where your costs are absorbed by . . . well, by everyone else who uses the hospital. You know, sort of like socialized medicine, except a lot more expensive.

  30. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    For you trollfucks too stupid to figure it out, Roger Rabbit did NOT post #4! This impersonation appears to have DUFUS’s fingerprints on it. CSI is working on a positive identification. (Richard Pope — are you out there? Get to work!)

  31. 43

    michael spews:

    @32

    ACORN hired people to register folks to vote and payed them on a per voter basis. A common (and stupid) practice used by the left and the right. When problems showed up with the registrations ACORN cooperated fully to straighten out the mess.

    This wasn’t a case of ACORN engaging in fraud (but they were being hella stupid). This was a case of a few people defrauding ACORN by claiming to have done work that they did not do.

    Plus, this has been done and over for quite some time. Rather than dragging up things from the past when you’re proven wrong, maybe you should just stop posting.

  32. 44

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 32

    “At some point gross negligence crosses a line becoming criminality. I never asserted criminality. What I do know is this: my Marine son’s ballot didn’t arrive until after the election.”

    But, you accused an organization of negligence, yet you have failed to exercise due diligence in investigating the evidence for your claim. You have allowed your emotions or your ideology to blind you to any objective analysis. (This is a reason why Richard Pope is a genius compared to you—he has repeatedly shown an ability to perform an disinterested analysis of evidence and change his position to that supported by the evidence.)

    “The klutzes at Elections don’t have the brains to criminally conspire, they just continue to screw the electoral pooch….”

    Uh-huh. Hey…Piper, while you’re visiting Makebelieve land, Say “hello” to Ms. Kitty for me. :-)

    “…witness letting 71,000 messed up voters’ pamphlets go out to North and East King County ZIP codes.”

    How is that a failure? Here is some details:

    • 71,000 erroneous voter’s pamphlets were mailed
    • The mistake was identified
    • The error was made by the vendor
    • The vendor agreed to mail out a supplement
    • All households will receive the supplement before the absentee ballots are mailed

    So, in fact, the system worked very well. A mistake was made–by a vendor in this case–and it was corrected in a timely fashion so that all voters have the necessary information prior to voting.

    You, apparently, believe that it is possible to get to the point where mistakes won’t happen. That’s fantisyland crap. In the real world, competence is assessed by the ability to quickly identify and recover from mistakes so that the mission is completed properly.

    Analogy: The smoothest airline pilot isn’t the most competent one. The most competent pilot is the one who can calmly, quickly, and effectively recover from an unusual/emergency situation. When airline pilots train, the majority of it is about successfully completing a flight in the face of unusual or emergency situations.

  33. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @20 Sounds like agism, Piper. How about throwing in some sexism, racism, and chauvinism to make your day complete?

  34. 46

    Piper Scott spews:

    @38…RR…

    Wrong…IMITATION is the sincerest form of flattery. Plagiarism is falsely claiming original authorship for the creative work of another.

    I’m pretty certain nobody would care to be credited with your epistles save you.

    The Piper

  35. 47

    michael spews:

    42 continued

    Plus, with only around 2,000 members in the state and that F’ up on their shoulders ACORN pulls about zero weight around here.

  36. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @22 Let me see if I understand your thesis correctly. Since the people who flew airliners into skyscrapers are already dead, let’s round up some innocent Iraqi civilians and torture them instead.* This is how Bush and his gangsters operate.

    * The International Red Cross estimated up to 90% of the Abu Ghraib torture victims were Iraqi noncombatants who had no useful information and were arrested simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  37. 51

    Piper Scott spews:

    @43…D…

    Sherril Huff is responsible for every mistake in the voters’ pamphlet. She’s the Director of Elections, and the buck for the pamphlets stops on her desk. To fob it off onto the vendor is a real hoot since employees of her office were charged with proof reading the damn thing!

    Her effort to pass the buck to the vendor is typical.

    BTW…the irony? The page for I-25 is in the pamphlet twice – page 72 and again on page 75 – which leads me to wonder whether there is some electoral karma out there that will impress upon voters the need to replace Huff ASAP with an elected Director of Elections, hence their vote FOR I-25.

    Business strive for zero defects, and I certainly wouldn’t fly an airline that had a tolerance for a certain level of pilot error or go to a doctor who gets it right “most” of the time.

    The Keystone Kops screw up another electoral effort!

    The Piper

  38. 52

    Piper Scott spews:

    @44…RR…

    As someone who’s post-53 by a few, there’s no agism on my part.

    But lets face it: a demographic with an average age of nearly dead? How hip is that? At this rate, NPR will end up getting piped into nursing home rooms and that’s about it.

    Time to end the subsidies and let the creeky old thing stand on its own.

    The Piper

  39. 53

    Piper Scott spews:

    @49…M…

    Spare us your cuteness, and tell us what it is you were seeking to prove.

    The Piper

  40. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @23 “BTW…my Marine son was screwed out of his ballot in 2004 – a slam-dunk Dubya vote – by the klutzes at King County Elections…Couldn’t bother to mail his absentee ballot to him in time. It reached him…after the election.”

    Because you’re a wingnut, the first assumption we should make is that you’re lying (about having a son in the Marines; about having a son at all; about having the intelligence required to procreate; about your putative son getting his absentee ballot after the election, etc.) — but for the sake of argument let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your allegation is true.

    How do you know KCRE was responsible for the late delivery of his absentee ballot?

    That ballot had to pass through both the USPS and military mail systems. Isn’t it more likely that it was delayed in the mail system? Especially if your son is deployed to a combat zone or a remote foreign location?

    In view of the fact that KCRE mailed the majority of military/overseas absentee ballots on Oct. 6, 2004 and ALL of them by Oct. 10, 2004 (they mailed 246 on Oct. 1, 11988 on Oct. 6, and 3301 on Oct. 10), if your son didn’t get his absentee ballot until AFTER Nov. 2, 2004, then it spent a minimum of 24 days in the civilian/military mail systems.

    (Source of data: http://www.metrokc.gov/electio....._01_05.htm)

    In the U.S., it takes about 3 days to deliver a letter sent out of state. We should, therefore, assume that your son’s ballot spent about 3 days in the USPS system, and at least 3 weeks in the military mail system. There are any number of reasons why it might have been delayed in the military mail system:

    Unit movements
    Military mail system inefficiency
    Other military priorities
    Routing through numerous mail depots
    Military mail clerk not knowing where his unit was
    Difficulty of delivering to final destination
    Etc.

    Marines on deployment typically spend the bulk of their time in the field, moving around, and usually gets trucked or choppered to the unit along with the food and ammunition resupply. Along with the MREs and ammo, it gets there when it gets there, as military exigencies allow.

    And you have the nerve to blame this on KCRE?! You’re full of shit, pardner.

    Now let me ask you this, buddy. If your putative son didn’t get his alleged absentee ballot, why didn’t he request a Federal Write In Ballot from his Unit Voting Assistance Officer? All military units are supposed to have a UVAO. All soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines are supposed to receive training on their voting options. If there was a breakdown in the military such that he didn’t receive this training or his unit didn’t have a UVAO with a supply of FWIBs, how the fuck is that KCRE’s fault?

    You’re full of shit, pardner.

  41. 55

    Piper Scott spews:

    @47…RR…

    Logical non-sequitur on your part…

    I’m talking allies and associates and fellow travellers of the 19 who were responsible for 9/11. People like Zacarias Moussaoui, Ramzi Binalshibh, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, et al.

    Would any of you want your daughters to marry one?

    The Piper

  42. 56

    The Guy Without A Car spews:

    Well. I guess Einstein was right. “There are only two things that are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the former.”

  43. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    P.S., the reason the 2004 general election ballots weren’t mailed sooner is because the primary election had to be certified before the November ballots could be printed and distributed, and since the primary election was held in mid-September, Oct. 1 was the earliest date that ballots could be physically available for mailing. Duh.

    And whooooo supported an earlier primary in the legislature, and whooooo blocked it?

    Democrats SUPPORTED moving up the primary, precisely so there would be more time to get general election ballots to absentee and MILITARY voters. State Senate Republicans BLOCKED this legislation until voters bounced their asses out of office in the 2004 election and gave Democrats a clear majority in both legislative houses — who promptly passed legislation moving future primary elections to mid-August, to give election officials more time to print and mail general election ballots.

    Oh, and one more thing — Washington’s 38 other counties mailed their absentee ballots on exactly the same time schedule under the same constraints; and overseas/military voters in those counties (including the counties that voted for Dino Rossi) had the same problems in getting their ballots.

    Fucking liar.

  44. 58

    Piper Scott spews:

    @53…RR…

    Read my post @35…and Jamieson’s reasonable column.

    And since the federal deadline for mailing out military ballots was October 8th, your 3301 October 10th ballots seem oddly…out of sync.

    In 2004, Washington was the last state to mail out military ballots, and personnel in the field complained of it to the press. Complaining to KC Elections would have interferred with things like staying alive.

    Read the David Postman article: http://archives.seattletimes.n.....e=20050110

    Instead of being so blase and nonchalant about ballots not reaching military personnel in time, where is your outrage or anger that those who serve got screwed? Instead, what I see from both you and Darryl is a “who cares” about the hole matter and a willingness to pass the buck to the post office or the military.

    I’ll be if the tables were turned and it was a hutch of bunnies who’d been screwed out of their right to vote, you’d be gnawing on the legs of every rabbit rights raper at KC Elections such that they’d forget that it’s state law not to use spring traps even on pests!

    The Piper

  45. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @54 No, I’m stating facts. The guys who flew the airliners into WTC, the Pentagon, and the Pennasylvania farm field are dead. They’ve been dead from Day One. Everyone (including Bush) knows that.

    They are NOT the people Bush and his gangsters tortured. As I’ve said before on this blog, you assholes can do whatever you want to the “allies and associates and fellow travellers of the 19 who were responsible for 9/11. People like Zacarias Moussaoui, Ramzi Binalshibh, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, et al.” and I will look the other way, laws and treaty obligations notwithstanding. My objection is to this administration abducting and torturing INNOCENT people — and they have, in fact, abducted and tortured large numbers of INNOCENT people, an ugly fact you wingnuts consistently refuse to acknowledge — because admitting to the facts would make you look like Nazis, which is what you look like to the rest of us.

    You wingnuts apparently are too fucking stupid to understand that accusation is not the same as fact, and when you take short cuts with the necessity of evidence, trials, lawyers, and giving people an opportunity to defend their innocence, you run a very high risk of throwing innocents into the same basket as the guilty — which is exactly what you Nazi assholes have done.

    Let’s review: Hundreds of Gitmo detainees have been released and returned to their native countries without trials or charges. U.S.-sponsored torture in prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan, and numerous secret prisons in various foreign countries have killed and maimed dozens if not hundreds of people who provided no useful intelligence and against whom there is no evidence of complicity or participation in terrorism activites. When people arrested by the Bush administration on terrorism charges do make it into U.S. courts, most of those cases have resulted in dismissals, reduced charges, or acquittals. In short, the general incompetence of the Bush administration and the young, inexperienced, and unqualified party loyalists it has appointed to government positions has carried over into arresting and abusing literally thousands of innocent people — illegally, unconstitutionally, and criminally, I may add. And YOU are a fucking apologist and defender of these Republican scumsuckers, which makes you a nazi and scumsucker, too.

    Kiss my cute cottontail.

    In fact, if you want a really good time, call 1-900-LICK-ROG. This is a toll call. All proceeds go directly to the Help Roger Rabbit Live Like A Republican Fund.

  46. 60

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 35

    “You can play cute with nice, tidy rules, but read what the P-I’s Robert Jamieson, no Republican, wrote about the reality of ballots and bullets: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ jamieson/205686_robert29.html”

    Okay…I read it. It doesn’t seem to say ANYTHING bad about KC electinos!?!?! What was your point in having me read it?

    “What my experience showed me was that there was a clear indifference on the part of KC Elections to respect the service of military personnel and recognize that sometimes office procedures don’t recognize realities of life.”

    Yet…the return numbers plainly show that “your experience” isn’t even close to representative.

    “Now, my son wasn’t in such a nice, tidy situation such that he could spend the time to do this, that, or the other. Admittedly, he wasn’t in a combat zone at the time, but he was up to it doing his Marine thing.”

    So? That doesn’t make it King County Election’s fault that he did not get his ballot on time. And it sure as hell didn’t make it King County Election’s fault that he didn’t vote, since there is a clearcut plan-B.

    In fact, I think we could agree that the entire reason for the federal write-in ballot and alternative voting procedures for service persons is precisely because mailing ballots overseas and through the military mail system and into the field (esp. a combat zone) is fraught with much greater difficulties than mailing ‘em to Kirkland. You chose to irrationally blame King County for your Son’s late ballot. But, really, it is to King County’s, the Post Office’s, and the military mail system’s great credit that, overall, they had a return rate slightly better than the overall KC return rate.

    “Sure wish KC Elections had his dedication to duty to not just do the minimum required, but go the extra mile and then again some more to get the job done.”

    Ahhh…now we are getting somewhere. You originally claimed that “klutzes at King County Elections…Couldn’t bother to mail his absentee ballot to him in time.” I trust that you have abandoned that claim?

    Now you are making a new claim that King County Elections did “the minimum required” (which presumably includes mailing out ballots by the federal deadline) and didn’t “go the extra mile” plus.

    So, what, specifically, do you think KC should have done to go the extra mile? I mean, yeah, they could have sent someone to meet your son in person and whisked his ballot away. But, what REASONABLE steps could KC have taken that you know they did not do yet had control over? Please note that mailing the ballots even earlier was not practical for King or any other county at the time because of the late September primary and lag from the election to certification. Here is what Sam Reed wrote about it:

    Q: Were Washington’s military ballots timely issued?

    All military ballots in Washington were issued in advance of state requirements.

    With one exception, all military ballots were also issued by October 8, 2004, the date requested by the Department of Justice in communications with the Secretary of State.

    The one exception involved Island County, which issued its ballots several days later (but still before the State law deadline).

    Due to the fact that the military base in Island County serves military personnel primarily reachable by airplane (that is, aircraft carrier pilots and personnel), no significant issues resulted from the timing of the issuance of these ballots.

    All military ballots properly returned were processed and counted.

    Washington State can control the initial issuance of ballots and the processing of returns. Unfortunately, however, Washington’s election officials have no control over the federal mail system or the distribution of Washington’s ballots by the military bases.

    The law does include special provisions to facilitate military voting. Military personnel are required to sign the ballot by election day, but the envelope need not contain a postmark indicating it was mailed election day, as military ballots often do not have a postmark. Military personnel may also fax ballots.

    The most critical issue relating to the counties’ ability to issue military ballots any earlier is the late (September) date of Washington’s primary. The Secretary of State, County Auditors and various legislators are proposing legislation to move Washington’s primary to an earlier date in part to allow an earlier issuance of military ballots.

    Clearly, the legislature has taken the most important step in making an earlier ballot drop possible—schedule the primary for an earlier date.

    “Should let you know…the lance corporal doesn’t blame the post office or the Marine Corps…he blames KC Elections whose job it was to ensure that his right to vote was respected.”

    Then said Lance Corporal is either lacking the evidence or unable/unwilling to objectively assess the evidence. Perhaps you can relay the contents of our discussion, since it seems to have ameliorated your position.

  47. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    You nazi pigfuckers won’t even own up to your mistakes. At a minimum, your precious Bush administration should pay compensation to that innocent Canadian guy they abducted, spirited off to Poland, and tortured simply because he’s a practicing Muslim. Fuck you assholes. You’re right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and Vlad the Impaler when it comes to crimes against humanity. You should all be dragged off to the Hague and put on trial then locked up in a drafty old castle along with the Serbian war criminals until you rot! In the meantime, I don’t see why we should be polite to you on this blog.

  48. 62

    Piper Scott spews:

    @58…RR…

    OK…you raise some issues and points worthy of consideration and concern.

    But there are two sides to even that coin: Take into account that after 9/11 there wasn’t the wholesale rounding up of every Muslim in the US and shipping them to internment camps in Idaho or Wyoming.

    What there was and is is a legitimate concern about another attack. My question to you is if you had every reason to believe that someone you were interrogating had information that, if disclosed to you and you acted upon it, would prevent the death of one or more American, what measures would you consider appropriate to extract that information.

    It’s a legitimate question, and one that needs to be addressed.

    Again…Ex Parte Quirin…During WW II, FDR and his liberal cohorts did stuff unimagineable by even those who allege the worst against Dubya.

    You consistently fail to mention that when abuses or criminal conduct occurs, there are investigations, trials, and, if convictions follow, punishment. It’s simply tiresome to hear a monotonous beating of a drum with only the left-hand of the crimes and perfidy of Dubya, et al, with nary a mention of the gross atrocities and savage brutality on the other side.

    Since it’s your indignation on this issue that’s apparent, I question how seriously one-sided it is.

    The Piper

  49. 63

    spews:

    Piper Scott,

    “Read my post @35…and Jamieson’s reasonable column.”

    Ummm…I think you need to read it yourself there, Squirt. I don’t think it says what you think it says….

    “And since the federal deadline for mailing out military ballots was October 8th, your 3301 October 10th ballots seem oddly…out of sync.”

    Well…if you believe Sam Reed, all of KC ballots were mailed by the Oct 8th federal “deadline.” If you believe KC (yeah…I know, I know…you don’t—it is part of being in the brotherhood of wingnutnuts), most were mailed out well before Oct 8th.

    “In 2004, Washington was the last state to mail out military ballots…”

    Of course, Washington state was the last state to hold a primary, too. But, now you are shifting the blame from King County to Washington State!?!!?! What is it, Squirt, KC’s “fault” or Washington’s? Clearly we have taken the most important step in fixing the WA state problem by moving the primary.

    “…and personnel in the field complained of it to the press.”

    Sure a handful did complain. But, 83% of them seem to have gotten their ballots on time, returned, and counted.

    “Complaining to KC Elections would have interferred with things like staying alive.”

    …and voting with at federal write-in ballot. But, more importantly, it most likely would have been wrong to blame KC.

    “Read the David Postman article:”

    But the Postman article is about Washington state. We all agree that the very late primary made it difficult to get ballots out early. In fact, the article points out that the real problem counties were Franklin, Pend Oreille, San Juan and Whatcom, not King County. You aren’t really helping your case here.

    “Instead of being so blase and nonchalant about ballots not reaching military personnel in time, where is your outrage or anger that those who serve got screwed?”

    Of all of Washington’s citizens, military personnel have the most options. And precisely because sending ballots overseas involves relatively complex logistics.

    “Instead, what I see from both you and Darryl is a “who cares” about the hole matter and a willingness to pass the buck to the post office or the military.”

    Pass the buck? WTF??? Try to keep up with the discussion.
    Given that the ballots were mailed on time from KC, and given that the rate of return was on par with the rest of the county, my claim is that KC, the Post Office, and the military mail systems were all very effective, overall.

    But, in this one particular case, that of your son, unless you have evidence that KC did not mail a ballot to him, it was obviously a breakdown later down the ballot-handling chain, because all KC overseas/military ballots were sent before the state and federal deadlines.

  50. 64

    Piper Scott spews:

    @59…D…

    Cute…You really don’t give a rip about those who wear the uniform, do you? The fact of the matter is the lance corporal was screwed out of his right to vote because his ballot didn’t arrive in time.

    You’ve got a jillion and five excuses, rationales, grassy-knoll-level theories alternative realties, but not one ounce of concern for him or others similarly situated.

    Yet his is but one in a LONG, and getting longer all the time, litany of abuses at KC Elections.

    Straight up question to you: is the lance corporal’s service to you and America important enough for you to at least regret that his ballot was so late? And be willing to do more to ensure that next time it arrives on time?

    Remember…Ol’ Rog said that 3301 military ballots weren’t mailed until AFTER the 10/8 deadline. Could the lance corporal’s been among them?

    The Piper

  51. 65

    Daddy Love spews:

    3 MTR

    Ban asbestos and get more FBI agents into WA than in WY. Yes, that certainly DOES seem foolish.

  52. 68

    Daddy Love spews:

    63 PS

    I haven’t looked up the deadlines, but RR is quite correct to say that if your imaginary person purportedly had their ballot mailed on 10/10 and it alleegdly did not arrive until after 11/2, it seems that the owner of largest share of the blame for that delay would be the mail system, whosever system that may be.

  53. 69

    Piper Scott spews:

    @65…D…

    Why deleted? Something against Kipling’s assertion that poor treatment of soldiers is hypocritical?

    It’s in the public domain, BTW…

    The Piper

  54. 71

    Daddy Love spews:

    63 PS

    So what is your imaginary person, anyway, an idiot? Because you don’t need to wait for an absentee ballot to arrive in order to vote. What ever happened to so-called “personal responsibility?” Isn’t it your duty as a Republican to blame the voter for being such an incredible dunderhead?

  55. 72

    michael spews:

    @52

    Manny of the folks in Gitmo are illiterate farmers, who’s neighbors turned them in so they could grab their land. Torture techniques lead people to tell you what they think you want to hear, not what is true.

    Not really sure why I even bother replying to your posts….

  56. 73

    Daddy Love spews:

    What I like are the way-out wingnuts who warn us that we’ll all be living under the Caliphate ANY MINUTE NOW. Like a bunch of raggedy-ass radicals in a bunch of third-world nations are going to grind the current US-European indistrial, military, and economic dominance into dust (using magic Muslim potions, no doubt), and/or somehow overtake and pass the coming Chinese/Indian juggernauts.

    And they will do this by killing from one to as many as THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE at a time. Whoo-eee, what a feat. How many dead Iraqis in Iraq so far?

    Riiiiiight.

  57. 74

    Piper Scott spews:

    @70…DL…

    I’ll let the lance corporal know of your appreciation for his service…and I’m sure he’ll tell his Marine Corps buddies and they’ll tell their buddies…and so on…

    But somehow I think they are already aware of how little you really regard their VOLUNTARY service and sacrifice. “Makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep…” per Kipling’s Tommy.

    Why don’t you take personal responsibility for defending your own freedom? My army staff sergeant son can arrange to have you parachuted into Eastern Afghanistan where you can duke it out with Taliban and al-Quida fighters all on your own since you seem to regard the service of those who are there now as something akin to “dunderhead.”

    The Piper

  58. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @57

    “And since the federal deadline for mailing out military ballots was October 8th, your 3301 October 10th ballots seem oddly…out of sync.”

    I don’t know whether the federal deadline was Oct. 8, Oct. 10, or some other date. I can’t determine this from my initial internet research, and today being Saturday, I can’t call KCRE or the Federal Elections Commission or anyone else to find out. In any case, I shouldn’t have to do research to validate your assertions. That’s your responsibility. You didn’t provide any cite for your assertion the deadline was Oct. 8. I’ve heard that date mentioned before, but I vaguely recall this particular wingnut talking point having been proved wrong in previous discussions of this topic. In any case, I’m not aware of any statement from the feds or anyone else in a position of authority that KCRE failed to meet the deadline. As far as I know, they met it.

    There’s also an unanswered question in my mind as to what the nature of this deadline is. It may be advisory. For example, the FEC “recommends” mailing absentee ballots 45 days before the deadline for receipt of ballots. http://www.eac.gov/News/meetin.....%20ballots On the other hand, a federal court granted relief to overseas/military voters against the state of Alabama, which scheduled a runoff election only 21 days after the primary election, not giving overseas/military voters enough time to receive and return their absentee ballots. http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/misc/al_uocava.htm

    The FEC says, “The Federal Voting Assistance Program’s (FVAP’s) post-election surveys and the U.S. Postal Service statistics indicate that a 45-day transit time is needed for absentee ballots sent through international mail or the military APO/FPO (overseas) post offices.” (see cite above) As this indicates, the problem for overseas/military voters is caused by mail transit times, not dilatory local election officials. Yet, you persist in blaming these problems on KCRE, when there’s not a shred of evidence they failed to mail ballots as soon as humanly possible. The general election ballots weren’t even available from the printing plant until Oct. 1, you fucking idiot!

    Also, it apparently doesn’t occur to you that some, at least, of the ballots mailed on Oct. 10 were to voters whose requests for ballots were received AFTER the Oct. 6 mailing. You are a dolt and a liar.

    “In 2004, Washington was the last state to mail out military ballots, and personnel in the field complained of it to the press. Complaining to KC Elections would have interferred with things like staying alive.”

    Horseshit. How do you know Washington was the “last state” to mail” ballots? What’s your source for this? But even if it’s true, that’s because of the September primary date, not dilatory election officials. And if you were to examine the mailing dates of the ballots by other Washington counties, including those run by elected REPUBLICAN county auditors, you will find generally identical mailing schedules — for the reason that the dates of the primary election and certification dictated when the ballots could be mailed! You are a goddamed liar to blame this on KCRE.

    “Instead of being so blase and nonchalant about ballots not reaching military personnel in time,”

    Fuck you, lying asshole! I’m not “blase and nonchalant,” I’m DEAD SERIOUS about this issue. I’ve posted on it numerous times, and as a Vietnam Veteran, I’m as committed to protecting soldiers’ voting rights as anyone else! It is you who is “blase and nonchalant” in regurgitating wingnut talking points with complete disregard for truth and facts.

    “where is your outrage or anger that those who serve got screwed?”

    I’m plenty outraged at the Republican National Committee, which ran underhanded (and illegal) “caging” operations against soldiers deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan to prevent them from voting because they are black (and therefore thought by the RNC to be likely Democratic voters). Protecting the GOP operatives who ran these operations from criminal prosecutions lies at the heart of the U.S. Attorney scandal, and in my opinion, that scandal warrants impeaching the president and prosecuting Karl Rove and Tim Griffin, among others. People like you are protecting these lawbreakers who violated the voting rights of our combat troops. So, in addition to being a goddamed liar, you’re also a goddamed hypocrite!

    Your “outrage” against KCRE is as phony as a $3 bill! It is scripted and programmed by Republican propagandists, and you dutifully regurgitate it as directed by your wingnut thought-masters. In doing so, you prove yourself devoid of judgment, and dishonest. I’m plenty outraged by these lies, and by the liars who repeat them, which includes you. Go fuck yourself.

    “Instead, what I see from both you and Darryl is a ‘who cares’ about the hole matter and a willingness to pass the buck to the post office or the military.”

    Liar, liar, pants on fire! HOW is this KCRE’s fault? WHY do you pick on KCRE and ignore the Republican counties with election departments run by Republican auditors that mailed ballots on the same schedule and whose voters had the same problems? Your partisan bias is showing. It’s all bullshit. It’s nothing but bullshit wingnut lies, and Darryl and I are calling “bullshit” on your wingnut bullshit. If you don’t like it, tough! Go fuck yourself.

    “I’ll be if the tables were turned and it was a hutch of bunnies who’d been screwed out of their right to vote, you’d be gnawing on the legs of every rabbit rights raper at KC Elections such that they’d forget that it’s state law not to use spring traps even on pests!”

    No, I’d want to do something construction about it, like change the law setting the primary date so overseas/military voters have more time to get and return their ballots — at least the 45 days that FEC says it takes the military mail system to handle them. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing the military mail system; having served in a combat zone, I appreciate the difficulties of delivering mail to troops in the field. But you want to (conveniently) forget that the military mail system took 4 times as long as KCRE to process the mail; that’s just a fact, and your attempts to blame mail delays on KCRE are beyond lame, they’re a fucking liar and you are a fucking liar.

    I’m calling it how it is. You’re a bullshitter. If you have a son in the Marines, and if he had problems getting his ballot, why didn’t he go to his Unit Voting Assistance Officer and get a Federal Write In Ballot? You (conveniently) have dodged that question. Your son has my sympathy. I will do everything I can to make sure that he and his fellow service members have the maximum opportunity to vote in our elections. To do that, I have:

    Called for the prosecution of Republicans who illegally challenged the voter registrations of deployed troops;

    Criticized the Republicans in the Washington Legislature who blocked Democratic-sponsored legislation to move up the primary election so overseas/military ballots could be mailed sooner;

    Opposed the Republican-backed scheme to replace King County’s professional election director with a politician who may have no qualifications to run elections;

    Worked as a pollworker, and volunteered as an election observer, in part to learn how the election system works so I can discuss this issue as an informed person;

    Posted numerous comments in this blog to rebut and dispel the lies, myths, and disinformation about elections and military voting put out by the wingnut spin machine.

    You are a goddamed liar, now go fuck yourself, and pet the armadillo you rode in on.

  59. 76

    Broadway Joe spews:

    Piper @ 10:

    I’d buy Karl Rove being behind Jerry Lewis and the EMP design…..honestly can’t think of anyone better, except maybe Bigfoot. And I don’t think even Turd Blossom could have created a stupid sack of shit like Clayboy!

    and @ 51:

    Terrestrial radio (as a whole) pretty much sucks ass anyway. And there’s a NPR-like channel on XM that I listen to every once in a while, so I have no problem letting NPR die, like the rest of terrestrial radio.

  60. 77

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @61 “OK…you raise some issues and points worthy of consideration and concern.”

    Mighty big of you to acknowledge that. Now let’s see you make the same admission with respect to your absurd claims that KCRE is at fault in your son’s voting problems.

  61. 78

    Daddy Love spews:

    73 PS

    That’s it, Piper, ol’ boy. Make it all about me. Don’t worry, your deviation from the Code will not be mentioned by me to your Republican overlords. OF COURSE you are ingnorant of your imaginary person’s options. I would not expect knowledge from a Republican. And OF COURSE you overlooking his/her lazy shirking of the precious obligation to vote. Because it doesn’t count if you’re a Republican, right?

    I regard people who don’t care enough about voting to get off their lazy asses, get a ballot, and vote to be dunderheads, that’s right. And you can bring both of your imaginary persons here and I’ll tell them to their stupid and lazy faces how stupid actions like that are.

  62. 79

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Oh yeah, one more thing — have you checked with KCRE to find out when your son’s ballot was mailed? If you haven’t, how do you know his ballot wasn’t among those mailed on between Oct. 1 and Oct. 8? It seems to me you’re just assuming that. You have a motive to do so, you’re nothing but a liar parroting the wingnut propaganda that King County military voters were screwed out of their right to vote.

    That assertion, made by (among others) the Republican Party, Dino Rossi, and John Carlson on his radio show, is patently false.

    The return rate of overseas/military ballots was virtually identical to the turnout rate of domestic voters — around 81%. Of more than 15,000 overseas/military ballots returned, plus about 1,300 Federal Write In Ballots, some weren’t eligible to vote but the vast majority were COUNTED. Only around 250 of these ballots were disqualified, and only 16 of those were disqualified for arriving after the receipt deadline. Of those 16 ballots, possibly none were military voters, as KCRE lumps overseas civilians and military personnel together and didn’t identify the source of those ballots. So, compared to more than 14,000 overseas/military ballots COUNTED, only 16 overseas/military ballots were disqualified for arriving after the receipt deadline, and for all you know, every one of those 16 ballots might have been mailed AFTER THE ELECTION by people who didn’t bother to vote but after hearing how close the governor’s race was tried to sneak in a late ballot.

    You also (conveniently) ignore other states/counties (controlled by partisan Republican election officials) where military voters had similar problems. King County undoubtedly compares very favorable with other counties in Washington State, and the nation as a whole, for the high percentage of military voters who were successfully able to vote in that election. The disenfranchisement rate here is very likely much lower than in many other places, in part because Washington makes it easier than any other state for military personnel to vote. They don’t even have to be registered if their declared “home of record” in their service papers is this state; they don’t need to vote on an official ballot, they can use an MRE box or any piece of paper; they don’t need to know the names of the candidates they want to vote for, all they have to do is designate the office and party (e.g., “Republican for governor”). How much more hand-holding could our election officials possibly do? At some point, it becomes the responsibility of the service member to go to the trouble of voting. If he chooses not to, that’s his choice, not KCRE’s fault.

    I repeat, you are a fucking liar spewing baseless wingnut talking points motivated by a desire for partisan gain.

  63. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @59 Piper, you have gotten a major ass-kicking here, and you should quit now.

    I’ve said what I have to say on this topic, and I have other things to do today, so I’m leaving now. Have a good day.

  64. 81

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 63

    “Cute…You really don’t give a rip about those who wear the uniform, do you?”

    Oh???? Because I disagree with you about whether King County was responsible for his ballot being late? Because I pointed out that he had the option to vote via a Federal write-in ballot?

    Sorry, Wingnut, I’m just laying out the facts. My feelings about military personnel are not relevant (or revealed) in what I have said.

    “The fact of the matter is the lance corporal was screwed out of his right to vote because his ballot didn’t arrive in time.”

    He was certainly inconvenienced by a late-arriving ballot, since you have indicated that using a Federal write-in ballot would have been difficult. But, that is not the issue. The issue is whether or not it was King County’s fault. You have yet to provide any convincing argument that it was.

    “You’ve got a jillion and five excuses, rationales, grassy-knoll-level theories alternative realties, but not one ounce of concern for him or others similarly situated.”

    This is a logical fallacy. If someone is murdered and I demand that the suspect be given a fair trial, it doesn’t speak to a lack of concern for the murdered person.

    Likewise, my holding you to account for your claims about King County Elections, doesn’t speak either way about my concern for your son.

    “Yet his is but one in a LONG, and getting longer all the time, litany of abuses at KC Elections.”

    Then that is simply your superstition, since you haven’t provided evidence to support your claim, and your claim contradicts the known facts in the election.

    “Straight up question to you: is the lance corporal’s service to you and America important enough for you to at least regret that his ballot was so late?”

    Yes…I am a proponent of 100% ballots cast. I think every eligible voter should be required to cast a ballot (even if only turning in a blank ballot.)

    “And be willing to do more to ensure that next time it arrives on time?”

    Yep. I was a big supporter of moving the primary from being insanely close to the general to earlier in the year. And here is what I will personally do for your son:

    Piper Scott…Darryl here. Please, please, please make sure your son knows how to cast a Federal write-in ballot, knows who his unit’s voting assistance officer is. Make sure he marks his calendar with a “drop dead” date so that if his ballot hasn’t arrived on time, he uses the FWIB.

    I believe if his ballot comes after he casts a FWIB, he can still cast the absentee ballot (which has all the elections he is eligible to vote in on it), and the FWIB will be canceled. Verify that this is correct and let him know so that he is not concerned about using the FWIB mechanism.

    Let him know that another alternative is that he can fax or email King County Elections, who will fax or email a ballot to him. (Several hundred such ballots were issued in 2004.)

    Finally, transmit to him factual information about King County Elections in 2004: (1) that they mailed all overseas/military ballots before the deadline required by law and (2) they got a return rate suggesting overall success with overseas/military ballots. Remind him that the primary date has been changed to better accommodate overseas and military voters. Such information—especially knowing that his case was, from all appearances, a big exception—may offer him the confidence that will inspire him to vote in subsequent elections. I hope he does.

    Now it is your turn Piper Scott. The Republicans have spent years trying to shake voter confidence in our electoral system (esp. King County). 98% of it is absolute bullshit. How about you do your part to educate yourself to the facts (you know…actual number, dates, comparisons among counties, etc., rather than echoing wingnut talking points), and try to instill confidence in the elections system as a way to encourage—indeed inspire—all citizens to exercise their right to vote.

  65. 82

    spews:

    @22
    Somehow I don’t think that those who fly airliners filled with people into skyscrapers, lop off the heads of kidnap victims, send mentally handicapped kids with explosives strapped to their bodies into crowds of people…play a lot of chess.

    Actually, Crackpiper, Mohammed Atta was reportedly an avid chess player as a young man.

    http://www.team8plus.org/e107_.....c.php?2484

    Chess is a very popular game in the Middle East and many terrorists are from middle class families, but were social misfits who were driven as much by sexual frustration than anything. To say that you can’t imagine any of them playing chess shows how poorly you understand just about every aspect of what’s happening in the “global war on terror”.

  66. 83

    Piper Scott spews:

    @74…RR…

    The US Justice Dept. warned the Secretary of State’s office that if the ballots weren’t maile by 10/8, it would file suit. An official in the Secretary of State’s office then emailed all the county elections offices telling them to get some gas in their asses and get them in gear.

    Read this from David Postman’s article I previously linked:

    “On Oct. 7, State Elections Director Nick Handy sent all county auditors an e-mail tagged “URGENT” telling them about a threat from the senior litigation attorney for the Department of Justice. Handy said the state’s attorney had been told the federal government “is preparing a lawsuit to be filed tomorrow against the state of Washington.” ”

    Reading your posts and Darryl’s was fascinating because you occasionally argued at cross purposes.

    There seems to be a direct corollary between your irritation and your word count…Correct??? Just trying to understand your hare brain.

    I won’t question your veteran status or your service in Viet Nam. On the contrary, thank you for it…for giving on behalf of all of us. Frankly, that you served raises my respect for you even though I disagree with you and your sometimes potty-mouthed rants. As an American and a veteran, you have an absolute right to your POV.

    And you all can dismiss me by calling into question whether I have a Marine son or a son at all, but pretty much every one in town who’s read anything I’ve written – and I’m a prodigious writer of letters to the editor – knows of the service of my sons. Since I’ve been outed completely – made no real effort to hide my ID, BTW – all I have to say is, “You can look it up!”

    BTW…I don’t have a pet armadillo…They don’t do well in the PNW, and I’m led to understand they transmit diseases to humans with whom they come into long-term contact…Or was that your hope?

    I don’t live in other counties; I live in King County, and when King County fubar’s like nobody’s business, I’ll get pissed.

    If King County has a “professional” Director of Elections, how come no matter who Ron Sims appoints, he or she continues to make such a hash of the job?

    Here’s something you might want to read: http://www.military.com/NewsCo.....04,00.html

    While the above cited article does discuss alternative voting mechanisms, it was my son’s belief that he would get a King County ballot in time to vote since he’d requested an absentee ballot. King County didn’t mail his ballot to him in time for him to cast it.

    You assert that the lance corporal, Tom is his name, BTW, cold have done this or that, how about King County express mailing ballots to service personnel? Or taking other steps to expedite delivery? Or making certain that military ballots got primary attention?

    How about holding those responsible for getting the job done accountable instead of a then 19-year old who was angry that he didn’t have a chance to cast his first presidential vote?

    All your so-called efforts in favor of elections seem slanted so far to one side it’s a wonder whether you could hop to the right to get a bundle of free carrots!

    I’m willing to live with the results of elections, even when they go against me; as long as the rules are observed, democracy is as democracy does. But I also want elections to be accurate, and KC Elections has real problems in this regard, hence my strong support for I-25, which has been endorsed by Democrats, Libertarians, and Greens.

    One thing I have learned from this string…rabbits, like draft horses, wear blinders, only rabbits wear them voluntarily.

    The Piper

    PS: Shorter paragraphs would make your stuff easier to read.

  67. 85

    Piper Scott spews:

    @82…Lee…

    Chess originated, I believe, in ancient Persia…

    Not questioning whether Mohammed Atta played chess…From what I recall, before they set of to murder people in their holy cause, he and some of his pals also played with strippers at gentlemen’s clubs in Florida.

    I doubt, however, if he found any of his 72 virgins doing that!

    My point, though, is that as an interrogation technique, a leisure discussion of the Queen’s Gambit Declined with Mohammed, et al, seems oddly…stupid.

    The Piper

  68. 87

    spews:

    @85
    And your original point is still idiotic and it was called out for being such. Our military is not “over-lawyered”. The problem is that the Bush Administration believes that we aren’t constrained by rules of engagement that have been around for decades. Are you actually insinuating that if the military could operate with lack of constraints that Blackwater have, we’d be in BETTER shape? Please tell me you’re not THAT stupid?

  69. 88

    spews:

    Piper Scott,

    “While the above cited article does discuss alternative voting mechanisms, it was my son’s belief that he would get a King County ballot in time to vote since he’d requested an absentee ballot. King County didn’t mail his ballot to him in time for him to cast it.”

    That is fixable via education.

    “You assert that the lance corporal, Tom is his name, BTW, cold have done this or that, how about King County express mailing ballots to service personnel?”

    Express mailing is certainly possible. It would have cost about a quarter of a million dollars to do so. The question is, how much better would the return rate have been? It was 83%…would it really have gone to 84%? That would be an additional 149 ballots received (or about $1,500/ballot).

    But, there are reasons to believe that even express mail would not have worked. First, the Post Office already gives a certain priority to ballots. It is not clear that the Express service would get the ballots into the military mail system any faster. It would be much more likely to help non-military overseas ballots get to the intended recipient sooner.

    “Or taking other steps to expedite delivery?”

    Such as? How ’bout letting service people email or fax an emergency ballot request? Oh…yeah…that exists.

    “Or making certain that military ballots got primary attention?”

    Overseas and military ballots (the same thing, really) already were getting a time priority.

    The FUNDAMENTAL “issue” was that the primary was so close to the general election, it was impossible to get the ballots mailed earlier. We’ve fixed that at the state level.

    Yet…even so…King County oversea/military ballots were handled so well in 2004 that the return rate matched the in-county results.

    You are obsessing on one late ballot, that was almost certainly delayed after leaving King County.

    “How about holding those responsible for getting the job done accountable instead of a then 19-year old who was angry that he didn’t have a chance to cast his first presidential vote?”

    Sure…but you seem to be blaming King County, when it is clear that the bottleneck was almost certainly not King County. So, while you seem interested in holding someone accountable, you don’t seem interested in holding the right persons/agency accountable! That’s fucking nuts!

    BTW: Since the FWIBs are specifically designed to deal with the ineviatable (if infrequent) lost or delayed ballot, if your son knew about FWIBs then it was his own damn fault he didn’t vote. Otherwise, it was a failure of the military system to ensure he knew about FWIBs.

  70. 89

    Piper Scott spews:

    @81…D…

    I appreciate that YOU keep your paragraphs short…

    You don’t seem to be too unreasonable a sort, so let’s just say we’ll have to agree to disagree…respectfully.

    I do believe that KC Elections has repeatedly evidenced serious problems that call into question both its viability and the quality and competency of those Ron Sims has selected to run it. That voting irregularities and problems in Seattle make the national news when we hear nothing about Paducah or Poughkeepsie is pretty telling.

    This town has had competence scandals before, and this seems to be one more.

    Dismissing the 71,000 screwed up voters’ pamphlets as merely a printer’s mistake is to dismiss the unwillingness of the Elections office to not accept the product until they’d checked it first. Fobbing responsibility off to the printer is very like what you all complain a certain member of the King County Council does.

    Now…as to the niceties you describe, I’ll make sure the lance corporal is so advised. But at the time, these niceties weren’t well known by him or lots of other soldiers and Marines. Were you aware of them in 2004?

    What seems to be the mad rush to move primaries honestly bothers me. How dumb is an August primary? People on vacations, not thinking about politics, and other stuff. To me, the better solution is to improve efficiencies within the Elections office so as to not repeat mistakes.

    If the Brits can hold elections six-weeks after they’re called (and sometimes they’re called at the oddest times almost without warning), then why can’t KC Elections maintain a state of readiness with options, plans and multiple scenarios at the ready to be able to respond quickly?

    Still don’t know why you deleted Tommy. The copyright expired long ago, and it’s a poignent commentary on an age-old problem. Through art, we learn about life.

    Time to dig potatoes…

    The Piper

  71. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @83 “I don’t live in other counties; I live in King County, and when King County fubar’s like nobody’s business, I’ll get pissed.”

    The problem is King County didn’t fubar like nobody’s business, so you have no cause to get pissed, and you’re merely regurgitating the lies, myths, and superstitions of the wingnut conspiracy machine.

  72. 92

    spews:

    @90
    Sorry, but “Politically Incorrect” implies a certain level of sophistication. Calling people ragheads is not politically incorrect, it’s childish.

  73. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @85 “My point, though, is that as an interrogation technique, a leisure discussion of the Queen’s Gambit Declined with Mohammed, et al, seems oddly…stupid.”

    Well, we seem to have the word of a professional interrogator that it works, versus your uninformed personal opinion.

  74. 94

    Piper Scott spews:

    @87…Lee…

    In re “over lawyered,” read this, which has some stuff critical of the Bush administration:

    http://www.usnews.com/articles.....d-war.html

    Michael Barone compares the relative freedom of war-making during WW II to today where some in government are urged to purchase liability insurance not for anything they’ve done, but “just in case.”

    Frankly, I think one of the most dangerous impediments to America’s ability to defend itself was Frank Church and his committee.

    But I’m a $%&(#&$%*$*#$%^%^& wingnut, so I’m not smart enuff to think like my betters on the left…eh what?

    BTW…How are the Phillies doing?

    The Piper

  75. 95

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So you write a lot of letters to the editor. Big deal! The only thing that proves is you’re a highly opinionated person. There’s no correlation between how many letters to the editor a person writes, and whether he knows what he’s talking about. In this thread, you’ve proved yourself to be a willfully ignorant spewer of falsehoods.

  76. 96

    michael spews:

    Can we get #90 deleted?

    My girlfriend does have kids, so yeah, I guess you could call me a mother fucker, but that’d not really germane to the conversation.

  77. 97

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @89 Your complete silence on, say, the illegal disenfranchisement of nearly 60,000 African-American voters in Florida and the 6-hour waiting lines in Democratic precincts in Ohio is also pretty telling, considering that you hold yourself out as someone concerned about whether your fellow citizens are being allowed to vote.

    You’re nothing but a shameless partisan hypocrite.

  78. 98

    YLB spews:

    It’s bizarre that Republican losers like Pooper blame the utter failure of their incompetent, whacked out R party on King County elections rather the ugliness of their policies.

    Rossi is a weak used car salesman, a creature of BIAW and we all escaped a very close call when the people of this state found that out almost too late.

    If Rossi had compromised his ugliness just a little, he’d be in the Governor’s mansion but he didn’t want to do that because that would kicking part of his base. That should tell any voter that he can only be trusted to serve his true masters.

    Next time it won’t even be close. Gregoire in a landslide.

  79. 99

    Piper Scott spews:

    @93…RR…

    Typical blind thinking…Fighting today’s war using the tactics of not the last war but one three wars ago.

    Do you advocate using piston engine aircraft, the M1 rifle, and K-rations, too?

    Different enemy with a completely different mindset, different circumstances, and different times, and a just plain different war.

    The Piper

  80. 100

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I have often said on this blog that I’m a Democratic party hack and liberal propagandist. However, on the issue of military voter disenfranchisement, I am uncompromising and nonpartisan:

    GUARANTEEING OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE IN ELECTIONS SHOULD BE ONE OF OUR COUNTRY’S HIGHEST PRIORITIES, AND WE SHOULD DEVOTE AS MUCH EFFORT AND RESOURCES AS REQUIRED TO ACHIEVE THIS END, AND TO ENSURING THAT ALL LEGAL MILITARY VOTES ARE COUNTED.

    Now … Piper … will you join me in calling for the criminal prosecution of the Republican National Committee operatives, staff, and volunteers who played any role in organizing, directing, and carrying out the RNC’s caging operations against military personnel in 2004?

  81. 101

    Piper Scott spews:

    @97…RR…

    Without your usual resorting to citing only looney-left websites, can you prove where those allegations have been adjudicated and so held? Hell, I’ve been in very long lines at a polling place too…in Tacoma.

    I thought you had better things to do…or am I such a magnet attracting you, keeping you, mesmorizing you into descending into a blogaholic binge?

    I have that effect on people, you know. That’s why Karl Rove sent me to HA…

    The Piper

  82. 102

    Piper Scott spews:

    @100…RR…

    Do you still beat Mrs. Rabbit?

    Only a moron…or a netroot partisan…would disagree with your statement of intent.

    But your assertions over only REPUBLICAN perfidy? Prove it. Especially since military ballots historically tend to overwhelmingly support Republican candidates, your claims are far fetched.

    Try reading this: http://www.nationalreview.com/.....190823.asp
    then tell me what efforts you have in place to have Democrat Mark Herron prosecuted for his efforts to disenfranchise military absentee voters in Florida in 2000.

    While you’re at it, check out http://www.stripes.com/article.....chive=true detailing continued military-wide problems with ballot delivery.

    As an aside…my cited article also quotes Kipling’s Tommy. Inconvenient stuff, art, when it goes against you.

    Curious…does your definition of “caging” encompass requiring photo ID be presented before an ostensible voter is given a ballot?

    And how much of your so-called “evidence” of caging comes from a Beeb reporter with an ax to grind? Just checking…

    The Piper

  83. 104

    YLB spews:

    The conflict in this country has come down unfortunately to a struggle between those who make and those who take.

    The Republican party is the party of the takers. Our friend Pooper is a salesman who sells bodies to those too busy to find them for themselves. He’ll do anything to get the business, get the business, get the business. This is rentier behavior – the one who gets there first gets rewarded.

    Takers and Rentiers are involved in all sorts of speculative and extractive types of economic activities: resource extraction, real estate development, securities trading. What’s important to understand is that the rentier believes that getting ahead means getting somewhere first, taking ownership of that thing, holding on for dear life in order to extract rents.

    Rentiers naturally gravitate to the mutant form of Republican politics practiced today because taxes and regulations interfere with their extractive and speculative activities.

    As more and more manufacturing is sent to other countries, taking becomes more and more the established norm in this country. It reminds of a line I heard in the HBO TV series “The Wire”: “We used to make things in this country. Now we’re in each other’s pocket.”

  84. 105

    ArtFart spews:

    Roger….ROGER!!!!! Calm down, willya? It isn’t worth wasting your finger joints replying to these morons. The really pathetic thing about the trollfucks who pollute this place is that they don’t realize that nobody believes their bullshit any longer except them! Look at Mark the Idiot, who posted his rote repetition of the wingnut mantra that Patty Murray is stupid, then adds a link to an article in Blethen’s Bugle that contradicts him! Piper’s harping on the equally boring chant of the Goopers’ Old Party that the last gubernatorial election was stolen from Dino Rossi….they can’t possibly come to grips with the fact that they fucked up and picked a jerk-off for a candidate, then failed at monkey-wrenching the election themselves. (News flash, folks: This isn’t Ohio and Sam Reed ain’t Ken Blackwell. For that matter, Ken Blackwell isn’t Ken Blackwell any more.)

    As to “the piper”…he keeps blowing his horn, but he hasn’t looked back to see the kiddies aren’t following. An as to “supporting our troops”? I’ll say a prayer every day that his kind survives not only the war, but having him for a dad.

  85. 106

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @101 Are we to understand that you’re willing to believe whatever King County Republicans or John Carlson say about King County Elections, but you want a judicial decision as proof that something was amiss with GOP-administered elections in Florida and Ohio? There seems to be a partisan-inspired double standard in your thinking.

  86. 108

    Chad spews:

    Express Mail ballots are not an option. BY LAW, the USPS passes the mail directly to the military system. It would have normally (unless disasters, wars, famines, etc) less than 24 hours, normally sooner. It is super expedited through the local P&DCs. What the military does with it after that is the exclusive province of the military.

    From all the whines and droning, we can conclude 2 things:

    1)Piper is back to using his kid(s) in the military for his political purposes, and

    2) It is no longer possible to separate Piper from his Pipes; they’re one organism. The fusion raises serious questions over which component contributed the current brain.

  87. 109

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @102 I smacked her only once, 30 years ago, for which I’m profoundly sorry and feel deep shame, even though she had it coming. I have taken the pledge, and am no longer a wife beater. (Note, I stopped beating my wife about the same time I stopped being a Republcian.)

  88. 110

    spews:

    @94
    During WWII, German prisoners were treated very well by American forces because America understood that doing so would benefit America in the long run. Back then, we understood what it meant to have moral authority.

    But I’m a $%&(#&$%*$*#$%^%^& wingnut, so I’m not smart enuff to think like my betters on the left…eh what?

    That’s the first thing you’ve said in this thread that makes sense. Well done!

  89. 111

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @102 “Especially since military ballots historically tend to overwhelmingly support Republican candidates, your claims are far fetched.”

    What claims are you referring to? That the RNC ran a caging operation to disenfranchise soldiers? That has been well documented by the BBC news organization, in part because stupid GOP operatives sent confidential e-mails (with caging lists attached) to the wrong e-mail address! The recipient turned them over to reporters.

    That Florida’s Republican governor and secretary of state (who was also simultaneously serving as Bush’s state campaign co-chair) hired a private contractor (with strong Republican connections) who purged Florida’s voter registration lists of tens of thousands of black voters who were not felons? This is documented by Bush’s own federal Civil Rights Commission.

    That some Ohio voters in had to wait in line for hours, while that state’s Republican secretary of state kept voting machines locked in warehouses, and that these problems occurred only in Democratic precincts? This, too, has been heavily documented; and also was extensively reported by the MSM media at the time.

    You remind me of Ahmadinejad and other Holocaust deniers: You deal with facts that tend to undercut your arguments by denying their existence. You’re disgustingly dishonest, and are proving you’re nothing but a partisan shill despite your transparent efforts to pretend you’re an objective commenter holding yourself above the partisan fray. That’s bullshit. You’re a wingnut liar, through-and-through.

  90. 112

    Piper Scott spews:

    @104…YLB…

    So…what is it that you do? Suckle at the government teat?

    Gee…aren’t speculative and extractive activities what created the American economy that provides you goods and services? Or how in the name of U.S. Steel do you think all this stuff came to be? Sure wasn’t because somebody wrote some Linux code back in 1887…

    The car you drive (if you don’t, then the bus or, perish the thought, light rail car) is a direct result of extraction and speculation. Some manufacturer had to by parts made from extracted raw materials because he speculated that you would be a customer.

    As for me??? How many people in need of jobs have you helped in your career? How many companies in need of skilled professionals have you helped find them? When I make a deal, it’s a win-win-win. Willing buyers and willing sellers in a free market.

    You got anything against free markets? Or haven’t you the skill or courage to compete in one?

    Sounds like you have good old-fashioned class envy. You can’t so you resent those who can. Yet, many of the nouveau riche who you seem to scorn are very politically liberal, so, to an extent, you’re biting the hand that, because you probably don’t yourself, feeds you.

    Remember…you subscribe to HBO because some salesman – in the form of an ad copywriter – enticed you to. You, too, can be sold; it’s merely a function of product and price.

    The Piper

  91. 113

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @105 Calm down yourself, I’m just having some sport with him, as a cat does with a mouse before ripping its fucking head off.*

    * Just kidding! This is a send-off on Ann Coulter’s humor. Why should Nazi cunts have all the fun?

  92. 114

    spews:

    @94
    Oh, and Crackpiper? If you want to impress us, you might want to use opinion pieces from people with more credibility than Michael Barone. Here’s Barone writing about Iraq from September 2003:

    Nor do the two bombings of August prove we need many more U.S. or foreign troops. Terrorist bombings are not statistical events that can be prevented by statistically proportionate responses. That was the mistake of Lyndon Johnson and his military advisers who believed that some larger number of U.S. troops–no one was sure how many–would defeat the Communists in Vietnam. The plan must be to turn over the task of preventing criminal and terrorist violence to the Iraqis, and that is what the Pentagon and other agencies planned for in the months leading up to the war.

    The plans have been adapted in response to events and circumstances, as they should be, and things are proceeding much more rapidly than they did in Germany or Japan: A new currency will be introduced October 1; the governing council has been appointed and is setting in motion a constitutional convention; and a civil defense corps of 15,000 Iraqi recruits should be in place by December. Put in historic perspective, the good things that are happening in Iraq are impressive, even if old media think they are no more newsworthy than an accident-free day at Disneyland.

    That was just the first one I’ve found, but as someone who has spent a lot of time chronicling the most ridiculous of what passed for Iraq commentary back then, I know I want have to look to hard to find a lot more where that came from.

  93. 115

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    104, 112 — What the new brand of Republicans mainly extracts is taxpayer money from various government agencies and programs. It’s been a long time since THEY produced anything besides derivatives and other ingenious ways to rip off Main Street … and copious quantities of hot air.

  94. 116

    Piper Scott spews:

    @111…RR…

    The Beeb??? That’s what you’re using as evidence??? Second-hand hearsay from the Beeb?

    G’w’on!!! You can do better than that!

    You are way long on conspiracy theories and way short on evidence, court holdings, and anything resembling the truth.

    BTW…how do rabbits really feel when they’re picked up by their ears?

    The Piper

  95. 117

    spews:

    Piper @ 89

    “You don’t seem to be too unreasonable a sort, so let’s just say we’ll have to agree to disagree…respectfully.”

    Naaa…that isn’t it. The plain truth is that you are wrong in blaming King County for your son’s missed vote. You refuse to break out of your ideological/emotional shell and look at the facts. You are pathetic.

    “That voting irregularities and problems in Seattle make the national news when we hear nothing about Paducah or Poughkeepsie is pretty telling.”

    Sure…if you are a wingnut. But, have you analyzed the errors from the 2004 election? Do you know which WA counties had the highest error rates for various errors? Do you know whether the error rate in KC and WA in 2004 was above or below average for similarly closely scrutinized elections?

    When you actually have the facts, a very different picture emerges. The fact that the WA state election was in the news was because we had a very close election.

    “Dismissing the 71,000 screwed up voters’ pamphlets as merely a printer’s mistake is to dismiss the unwillingness of the Elections office to not accept the product until they’d checked it first.”

    Ummm…I didn’t dismiss it as a vendor error. THE VENDOR DID, you fuckin’ dope! The real story here is that, because the primary was changed, King County had plenty of time to ensure all voters had the correct information prior to the absentee ballot drop date.

    “But at the time, these niceties weren’t well known by him or lots of other soldiers and Marines. Were you aware of them in 2004?”

    Yes…I had a particular interest in the HAVA stuff. But HAVA clearly places a strong burden on the military to ensure knowledge among servicepersons:

    The Secretary of each military department, using a
    variety of means including both print and electronic media, shall, to the maximum extent practicable, ensure that members of the Armed Forces and their dependents who are qualified to vote have ready access to information regarding voter registration requirements and deadlines
    (including voter registration), absentee ballot application requirements and deadlines, and the availability of voting assistance officers to assist members and dependents to understand and comply with these requirements.
    […]
    Where practicable, a special day or days shall be designated at each military installation for the purpose of informing members of the Armed Forces and their dependents of election timing, registration requirements, and voting procedures.

    “What seems to be the mad rush to move primaries honestly bothers me. How dumb is an August primary?”

    Wait…after this entire discussion about the ballot mailing date in 2004, you ask this question? Are you just playing an idiot here or what?

    “If the Brits can hold elections six-weeks after they’re called (and sometimes they’re called at the oddest times almost without warning), then why can’t KC Elections maintain a state of readiness with options, plans and multiple scenarios at the ready to be able to respond quickly?”

    They can, and they clearly did! It was Franklin, Pend Oreille, San Juan and Whatcom counties who had the most difficulty in 2004 according to the Postman post.

    “Still don’t know why you deleted Tommy. The copyright expired long ago…”

    Nothing personal…I’ll usually delete complete or extensive copy/paste jobs that offers no commentary from the commenter. Partial copying with commentary consistent with “Fair Use” (whether or not an actual copyright is involved) is strongly encouraged. You might consider posting a link to Tommy (preferably with some original comment of your own).

    “…and it’s a poignent commentary on an age-old problem. Through art, we learn about life.”

    This is a comment thread. Use it to add your comments, not as a depository of the works of others.

  96. 118

    spews:

    @112
    Sounds like you have good old-fashioned class envy. You can’t so you resent those who can. Yet, many of the nouveau riche who you seem to scorn are very politically liberal, so, to an extent, you’re biting the hand that, because you probably don’t yourself, feeds you.

    I guess I can let YLB defend himself on this, but what he’s talking about has nothing to do with class envy. It’s similar to things you’d hear from George Soros or Kevin Phillips (who is one of the founders of the Republican’s Southern Strategy, but is now saying that the Republican’s debt-based fiscal policies are a sign that America is rotting). Neither of those guys are people who hate markets, they just understand what happens when you base an economy on restructuring debt rather than manufacturing things or investing in technologies.

    We like to have intelligent conversations around here, but it’s annoying when people like you can’t keep up. Either try a little harder to understand this stuff or go back to your coloring book. OK?

  97. 120

    Piper Scott spews:

    @113…RR…

    Curious…does or does not rabbit scat compost? If so, I could use some to add to my bins. Since I’m convinced you’re absolutely full of it, the nitrogen enhancement would be good for next years beans.

    The Piper

  98. 121

    Piper Scott spews:

    @119…Lee…

    Easy, pal…Women wear skirts, men wear kilts, and they’re armed when they do.

    The Piper

  99. 122

    Piper Scott spews:

    @119…Lee…

    OK…so I go read your article from what appears to be San Fran’s equivalent to The Stranger, and it’s a puff piece about the voter registration drives of…ACORN!!! LOL!!!

    How many former ACORN employees are currently charged with criminal abuse of the voter registration process in Washington? And in other states?

    Hope your foot feels better soon…

    BTW…the Phillies???

    The Piper

  100. 123

    spews:

    @122
    How many former ACORN employees are currently charged with criminal abuse of the voter registration process in Washington? And in other states?

    Again, let me reiterate what I said earlier. Take off your skirt (or your kilt, or your diaper, or whatever you shit into when you see a brown-skinned person), and debate the facts. The fact that ACORN employees have committed fraud has no relevance to the facts of that article and you know it. Stop stalling and step up to the plate, Nancy. Or are you too chickenshit?

  101. 124

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 99

    “Typical blind thinking…Fighting today’s war using the tactics of not the last war but one three wars ago.”

    Something that closely resembles strategic warfare can be seen among some groups of Chimpanzees. If we can assume a monophyletic origin of the behavior, that makes warfare a 5-6 million year old technology.

    Torture—that is, using pain or threat of pain—as a technique for one individual to coerce a resource from another individual is found in many lines of mammals, which means the technology is probably 60 millions year old. In other words, torture is even older than warfare itself. It hardly constitutes some new toolbox.

    The fact is, what you wingnuts call “terrorism” is a far older and more primitive form of violence than real war (as in one state using against another state to acquire resources). The tactics used by “terrorists” likely predate the rise of “the state.”

    “Do you advocate using piston engine aircraft, the M1 rifle, and K-rations, too?”

    In fact, the piston engine makes up the vast majority of the general aviation fleet. (Hell…I even own a piston engine airplane.) Jet engines are excessively expensive for most general aviation tasks. And electric or steam-powered airplanes are not quite ready for prime time.

    “Different enemy with a completely different mindset, different circumstances, and different times, and a just plain different war.”

    Utter bullshit. Not even close.

  102. 125

    michael spews:

    @94, 114

    Slightly off that topic, but American’s caused about 800,000 non-combatant German deaths in WWII. I think we’re at about that mark in Iraq. So much for smart bombs and laser guided gizmo’s.

  103. 126

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    What is wrong with “caging”? If the democrats wanted to do the same thing in republican districts I would be all for it. It really is the dems fault that “caging” exist because they don’t take voter fraud seriously. We need more efforts in finding illegitimate voters (especially in King County), not less.

  104. 127

    spews:

    @125
    The first Gulf War was actually the kind of modern casualty-limiting war that we needed to be able to fight in order to assert authority to protect our oil interests (and I do believe that in certain cases, those kinds of actions are necessary). But even that war led to the creation of Al Qaeda. When you’re powerful, it requires that you have even more restraint than normal in order to maintain the moral high ground. That’s just the reality of human nature.

  105. 128

    spews:

    @126
    What is wrong with “caging”?

    Because if a person is fighting overseas or in college, they will be removed from the voter rolls. The fact that you’re not receiving mail at your residence doesn’t mean that it’s not the residence you’re eligible to vote at.

    I think there are some things we need to do to ensure that voter rolls are valid, but screwing our military personnel is not the way to do it.

  106. 129

    A concerned Democrat spews:

    125

    What study are you looking at?????? I found numerous studies showing 7.5 to 7.8 million non-combatant casualties in the last three years. I believe though numbers.

  107. 130

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    @126
    What is wrong with “caging”?

    Because if a person is fighting overseas or in college, they will be removed from the voter rolls. The fact that you’re not receiving mail at your residence doesn’t mean that it’s not the residence you’re eligible to vote at.

    Well caging wouldn’t be problem if we had a voter ID card now would it? You are for a voter ID card, right?

  108. 131

    spews:

    @130
    Well caging wouldn’t be problem if we had a voter ID card now would it? You are for a voter ID card, right?

    Sure, why not. But how does that help you when everyone votes by mail?

  109. 132

    michael spews:

    @129

    The WWII numbers are accurate. I screwed the pooch on Iraq. Not sure what the hell I was thinking.

  110. 133

    spews:

    @129 and @132
    7.8 million? That sounds way too high. The high end of the estimates I’ve seen are at around 1.2 million. Can you post a link?

  111. 134

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    @130
    Well caging wouldn’t be problem if we had a voter ID card now would it? You are for a voter ID card, right?

    Sure, why not. But how does that help you when everyone votes by mail?

    Easy, you shouldn’t be able to vote by mail unless under extreme circumstances (ie hospital,millitary). And even then you still need to have an ID card to vote or you are not registered. Only live citizens would be eligible for the voter ID cards. This would eliminate most of the voter fraud.

  112. 135

    spews:

    Easy, you shouldn’t be able to vote by mail unless under extreme circumstances (ie hospital,millitary).

    What about students? People who travel for work and know they’ll be out of town? There are a number of reasons why people are temporarily not in their place of residence and need to vote by mail. Not to mention that voting by mail is now becoming the standard way for all people in this state to vote.

    And even then you still need to have an ID card to vote or you are not registered. Only live citizens would be eligible for the voter ID cards. This would eliminate most of the voter fraud.

    How? We already have voter registration cards. What would be the major difference?

  113. 136

    michael spews:

    @133

    The Numbers vary pretty widely. But, around 1.2 million looks to be the most accurate number. Which is quite a bit more than than the, about, 800,000 US caused German non-combatant deaths in WWII. I stand my my previous statement that I screwed the pooch on my Iraq #’s at #125.

    Found this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.....since_2003

  114. 137

    YLB spews:

    Voter ID is a vote suppression strategy by the GOP, nothing more. A voter ID law was passed in Georgia and was thrown out by a judge because it amounted to a poll tax. Fees were charged for the ID and poor people couldn’t afford them.

    Requiring ID puts up obstacles to people who just want to exercise their rights.

    The problems that photo ID are supposed to solve have not been shown to exist in any significant manner.

    What’s the greater crime? The extremely tiny numbers of people who vote for a dead spouse or the occassional scofflaw who’ll vote twice in a day or in a different precinct (like Anne Coulter)? Or turning away DROVES of voters at the polls because they forget their ID or don’t meet capricious ID requirements.

    Stupid little DOOFUS the Republican brown-nosing mutt cannot show any proof beyond whining about Chicago 47 years ago. Even his precious little ACVR folded up and blew away because Congress was getting too close to its vote suppression agenda.

  115. 138

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 101

    “I have that effect on people, you know. That’s why Karl Rove sent me to HA…”

    A legend in your own neurofibrillary tangles, eh?

    But, as long as you brought it up, Piper Scott, does someone pay you to post comments here?

    If so (and if you are willing to divulge), I’m curious. Is it by the word, by the comment, or by the hour?

  116. 140

    spews:

    Karl Rove trashed John McCain, John Kerry, Max Cleland, outed a CIA agent and ALL THE AGENTS WHO WORKED WITH HER, by proxy. Used fake orange and red alerts in ’04 to wank up the fear factor. Engaged in all sorts of illegal voter fraud.

    Piper, kiss off. You are nothing but a ‘Good German’.

  117. 141

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    Piper asks: “So…what is it that you do? Suckle at the government teat?”

    Just about every wingnutter that has infested this board asks this question. It’s a dead giveaway.

    Piper Scott: Big time Arnold Rothstein gambler, HO HA….not. Wimp.

  118. 142

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    And even then you still need to have an ID card to vote or you are not registered. Only live citizens would be eligible for the voter ID cards. This would eliminate most of the voter fraud.

    How? We already have voter registration cards. What would be the major difference?

    Voter ID cards would have your name and picture on them and would be required to be shown before you are allowed to vote.

    Voter ID is a vote suppression strategy by the GOP, nothing more. A voter ID law was passed in Georgia and was thrown out by a judge because it amounted to a poll tax. Fees were charged for the ID and poor people couldn’t afford them.

    Requiring ID puts up obstacles to people who just want to exercise their rights. I would treat voter registration with as much care as we currently treat gun registration. If there is any question about your gun being registered then you get your gun taken away. Same with your vote.

    This is the standard arguement from the left that doesn’t take votere fraud seriously. I guess you cant blame them when you look at St Louis, Philadelphia, Chicago, King County ect. Dems always are the cheaters.

  119. 143

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    I would treat voter registration with as much care as we currently treat gun registration.

    This statement is so ridiculous as to be self refuting.

  120. 144

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “democrats……don’t take voter fraud seriously.”

    Come on now. Get serious.

  121. 145

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    I would treat voter registration with as much care as we currently treat gun registration.

    This statement is so ridiculous as to be self refuting.

    Really, do tell Proud ass…. or should I be calling you dumbass. hehehe

  122. 146

    YLB spews:

    DOOFUS,

    If you can’t see the difference between the right to vote and the right to bear arms then you’re beyond all hope.

    One right, the right to bear arms, protects you from a state that goes out of control.

    The other, voting, is designed to allow the citizen to control the state.

    Very interesting that registering guns and asking voters to jump through hoops both serve your authoritarian impulse.

    If the state’s gun registration laws are too cumbersome, it’s easy to get a gun. Criminals and gun nuts do it all the time. But if the state makes you jump through so many hoops that you don’t vote on election day, it’s not easy to get your voice heard is it?

    Dumbass!

    Still waiting for that proof that organized vote fraud happens in any significant numbers.

    What happened in Chicago 47 years ago doesn’t count.

  123. 147

    Piper Scott spews:

    @139…SC…

    Sorry…wrong again…

    For Wednesday, October 3rd:

    In the 25 – 54 demographic, Fox News 278…CNN 165…MSNetrootBC 83 (Uhm…that’s less than one-third of Fox)… HLN 106…CNBC 65

    Big decline for both CNN and MSNBC numbers from just over two-weeks ago.

    In the same demographic O’Reilly 513…Nobody-Knows On CNN 182…What’s-His-Face on MSNBCorrupt 248

    HUGE drop for CNN…Query: Because of the Juan Williams “Happy Negro” disgrace?

    Total viewers Fox 859…CNN 461…MSNBC 235 (Uhm…just over one-quarter Fox’s numbers)…HLN 2346…CNBC 202

    O’Reilly 2296…Nobody-Knows on CNN 496…What’s-His-Face on MSNBCrazy 645 (That’s 28.1% of Fox’s numbers)

    These are Nielsen numbers as reported on MediaBistro.com.

    The Piper

  124. 148

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    If the state’s gun registration laws are too cumbersome, it’s easy to get a gun. Criminals and gun nuts do it all the time. But if the state makes you jump through so many hoops that you don’t vote on election day, it’s not easy to get your voice heard is it?

    Dumbass!

    Still waiting for that proof that organized vote fraud happens in any significant numbers.

    If you dont pay attention to what happened in 2004 in St Louis, Cleveland, Philadelphia ect that is not my problem. You can look it up yourself or look in the USDOJ. So making someone prove they are a US citizen and carry a voter ID card is too cumbersome? You are proving my point that lefties do not take voter fraud seriously. I am glad that you have finally seen the light that gun control laws are worthless.

  125. 149

    Piper Scott spews:

    @141…PTBAA…

    Never was married to Fannie Brice, thank you…let alone Barbara Streisand, though I had a cassette tape of her Broadway album that I literally wore out!

    My deal still stands: I’ll take odds on any who claim a Pope victory. Your losings payable to Hopelink. I trust you, but, if you wish, you can prove your honor to me by sending me a copy of the receipt.

    I’m not going to let a third-party hold that amount of my cash. Knowing you birds, If I say OK to PTBAA, you’ll all pile on with $100 bets just to denude my bank account.

    I was born at night, but not last night.

    The Piper

  126. 150

    Piper Scott spews:

    @136…D…

    I get 50 cents for every five-point rise in the top number of every HA regular’s blood pressure. Karl Rove pays me.

    The Piper

  127. 151

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    139

    Man you are confused. Anyone who thinks old people watch
    Fox is an idiot. The older genaration grew up on the MSM lie to them for decades.

  128. 154

    Piper Scott spews:

    @136…M…

    Yeah…the numbers vary greatly, and you went to the top and grabbed the largest number possible while not qualifying the number. Your @125 post contended that nearly 800,000 deaths, akin to the number of civilian casualties in WW II, were American caused, and you didn’t qualify your original statement when you grabbed an even higher number.

    Do you mean to say that no one else is responsible for any death in Iraq aside from the U.S.? Please clarify.

    The Piper

  129. 155

    Piper Scott spews:

    @140…SC…

    Get your facts straight. Robert Novak revealed that Richard Armitage “outed” Valerie Plame (worst kept secret in Washington), NOT Karl Rove. He was too busy plotting the overthrow of the government of San Marino, soon to be reported on a cable news network near you.

    BTW…you birds out-Rove Rove in the banality and falsehood department six-days a week and twice on Sunday.

    The Piper

  130. 156

    Piper Scott spews:

    @137…YLB…

    Most states offer photo ID cards for citizens who don’t drive or have passports. And, if memory serves because I did some municipal code drafting relative to this issue a few years ago, if an applicant is indigent, the ID will be provided at no charge.

    How, though, can any adult function in this society, economy, or wherever without photo ID of some kind???

    Let’s say that Georgia was willing to provide photo ID at no charge…Would your opinion change?

    You do know that SCOTUS has accepted for review this term a case from Indiana where that state required photo ID. The result will be interesting to watch. What will you think if the decision isn’t in your favor?

    The Piper

  131. 157

    Piper Scott spews:

    @141…PTBAA…

    Oops…You said Arnold Rothstein, not Nicky Arnstein…my bad.

    Rothstein is, of course, a key player in the Chicago Black Sox scandal. Arnstein, also a gamblar and con artist, was Fannie Brice’s second husband and, as it turns out, a “business associate” of Arnold Rothstein. Birds of a feather…

    The Piper

  132. 158

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    You know if an ID is deemed too cumbersome to keep maybe we can make a SS # too cumbersome to provide. Hell I would be out of my social security check when I retire, well if there is any left. I would save tousands though in taxes. No taxes, no democrats to fight. Maybe I am for not providing ID if it is evenly applied.

  133. 159

    spews:

    Piper Scott @ 155,

    “Get your facts straight. Robert Novak revealed that Richard Armitage “outed” Valerie Plame (worst kept secret in Washington), NOT Karl Rove.”

    Sorry, Wingnut, but you are wrong.

    The remarkable thing about the Valerie Wilson leak is that, the U.S. government had never before accidentally revealed the identity of one of our own spies before. Yet, within a few short weeks, there were MULTIPLE parallel leaks from four senior administration officials.

    From the Libby Trial court records we learned that:

    • 17 Jun: Armitage leaks to Woodward
    • 23 Jun: Libby leaks to Miller
    • 08 Jul: Armitage leaks to Novak
    • 08 Jul: Libby leaks to Miller (again)
    • 11 Jul: Rove leaks to Cooper
    • 11 Jul: Fleischer leaks to Dickerson, Gregory, and Lippert
    • 12 Jul: Rove leaks to Novak
    • 12 Jul: Libby leaks to Cooper
    • 12 Jul: Libby leaks to Miller (yet again)

    Even the most stunning incompetence couldn’t explain the parallel leak, when nothing like it had ever happened before.

    Regarding your assertion that Wilson’s identity was the “worst kept secret in Washington.” Wrong, Wingnut! Wilson herself testified under oath before Congress that she could “count on one hand” the people outside of the intelligence community who knew her true employer (and that included her husband). Also, the government’s indictment of Libby states:

    At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community.

    Man…you wingnuts just make up shit and repeat it over and over again until the entire gullible wingnut community believes it like the Gospel of Saint Karl!

  134. 160

    Piper Scott spews:

    @159…D…

    First: of what crime was Scooter Libby convicted? In the whole Plame leak affair, did Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald establish beyond a reasonable doubt that any crime other than Libby’s after-the-fact mishap take place?

    What event triggered the investigation in the first place?

    Robert Novak disclosed that Armitage was his principle source here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01572.html Karl Rove merely confirmed what Novak already knew, and, per Novak, did so when asked if what he, Novak, had been told was true. Novak also sought and received confirmation from a CIA public information officer, a man named Harlow.

    In Novak’s words from the above cited column:

    “Armitage’s silence for the next 2 1/2 years caused intense pain for his colleagues in government and enabled partisan Democrats in Congress to falsely accuse Rove of being my primary source. When Armitage now says he was mute because of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s request, that does not explain his silent three months between his claimed first realization that he was the source and Fitzgerald’s appointment on Dec. 30, 2003. Armitage’s tardy self-disclosure is tainted because it is deceptive.”

    I draw your attention to the phrase, “…falsely accuse Rove…”

    Now, in a Washington Post article written a few months prior to Novak revealing Armitage as his source, pretty much the same stuff was said by Novak, albeit with no mention of Armitage. You can read the article at
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00903.html

    Additional Novak thoughts can be found in
    http://www.humanevents.com/art.....#continueA

    It was Novak’s column identifying Valerie Plame as a CIA agent that sparked the whole controversy, and it was Richard Armitage that disclosed that identiy to Novak.

    The Piper

  135. 161

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    Analysis:

    Comment # 159 was a Randy Johnson 105 MPH fastball and comment # 160 was the Mark McGwire 42 oz bat hiting it out of the ball park.

  136. 162

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @116 You are seriously in denial. You are also a shameless shill for a gangster political party. Your mother told me she’s ashamed of you.

  137. 163

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @158 Show me in the Constitution (federal and/or state) or relevant SCOTUS decisions (see, e.g., poll tax and literacy tests) where the state or federal governments are allowed to burden the right to vote with a demand for photo ID. Every federal judge to date who has dealt with photo ID laws has declared them unconstitutional.

    If you want to impose unconstitutional requirements on voters, how about if we enact one saying you can’t vote if you’re Republican, because Republicans too stupid to vote responsibly?

  138. 165

    YLB spews:

    Doofus and Pooper (there’s a dynamic duo for you!):

    Still waiting for the compelling reason for photo id laws. What’s it supposed to solve? Any numbers to back that up like any halfway decent legislator would need? I hear anecdotes like oh Anne Coulter voting at another polling place – very suspicious.

    Why do you guys want to make it harder for poor people to vote unless your agenda is to suppress their votes?

    Doofus you screwed the pooch on your photo id law bullshit: if you don’t believe in registering guns why even bring it up as a prop for a photo id law?

    What happened to the ACVR? Why did it dry up and blow away if its motivation for photo id laws wasn’t phony to begin with?

  139. 166

    YLB spews:

    Let’s say that Georgia was willing to provide photo ID at no charge…Would your opinion change?

    Well, well pooper are you, by conceding that the State charged a fee for a photo id, admitting that the motivation for the Georgia law was vote suppression?

    NO! Poor people aren’t only lacking in money, they’re lacking in time and opportunity. What about handicapped people? Requiring a photo id is a GIANT hoop vote suppressors want poor people to jump through.

    What’s the greater crime? A handful of Republicans voting their dead spouses or DROVES of people denied their right to vote by capricious photo id laws?

  140. 167

    spews:

    Piper Scott,

    “First: of what crime was Scooter Libby convicted?”

    Perjury (2 counts), obstruction of justice (1 count) and making false statements (1 count)

    “In the whole Plame leak affair, did Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald establish beyond a reasonable doubt that any crime other than Libby’s after-the-fact mishap take place?”

    No…but, um, isn’t that what happens when Justice is obstructed? As Fitzgerald put it:

    Mr. Libby chose the one option that the law prohibited: he lied. He lied repeatedly to FBI agents and in sworn grand jury testimony, and he lied about multiple facts central to an assessment of his role in the disclosure of Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment. He lied about when he learned of Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment, about how he learned of her
    CIA employment, about who he told of her CIA employment, and about what he said when he disclosed it. In short, Mr. Libby lied about nearly everything that mattered.

    These lies had two direct results. First, they made impossible an accurate evaluation of the role that Mr. Libby and those with whom he worked played in the disclosure of
    information regarding Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment and about the motivations for their actions. Second, the lies required the government to expend substantial time and resources attempting to determine what – if any – of the information that Mr. Libby provided could be believed.

    More fundamentally, however, Mr. Libby’s lies corrupted a truth-seeking process with respect to an important investigation, and on behalf of which many others subordinated important public, professional, and personal interests.

    “What event triggered the investigation in the first place? Robert Novak disclosed that Armitage was his principle source here: Karl Rove merely confirmed what Novak already knew, and, per Novak, did so when asked if what he, Novak, had been told was true. Novak also sought and received confirmation from a CIA public information officer, a man named Harlow.

    In Novak’s words from the above cited column:

    I draw your attention to the phrase, “…falsely accuse Rove…”

    You missed the point, ya moron! You (and Novak, appparently) fundamentally misunderstand Fitzgerald’s investigation. From early on, it was obvious there was a concerted effort, not a leak from a single individual involved. It is irrelevant who was leaked to first, second, third, etc.

    It was the fact that there were nine separate leaks by four senior administration officials that make this a criminal conspiracy—that Rove was but one piece of.

    “It was Novak’s column identifying Valerie Plame as a CIA agent that sparked the whole controversy, and it was Richard Armitage that disclosed that identiy to Novak.”

    But, Novak didn’t publish his column until 14 Jul 2003. All of the various leaks I mentioned above occur prior to 14 Jul. Any leak prior to that column being published was still a leak, you nutburger!

    In other words, despite the fact that the U.S. had NEVER EVER leaked the identity of even ONE of their covert spies, there was a sudden rash of leaks in couple week period. A sign of either un-paralleled incompetence (highly unlikely) or a concerted effort. Fitzgerald clearly felt the evidence strongly pointed to Cheney.

    So, getting back to your original false claim: it is clear that Karl Rove did leak Wilson’s identity as a CIA operative. That is plainly established in the record of the Libby case. Rove leaked to both Novak (12 Jul) and Cooper (11 Jul) prior to public dissemination by Novak (14 Jul).

    I hope that clear it up for you, Wingnut.

  141. 168

    Piper Scott spews:

    @167…D…

    Preparing to retire for the evening, I glanced one last time at the Drudge Report only to find this: http://thehill.com/leading-the.....10-06.html

    It’s a brand new piece about Robert Novak and the Plame affair, says the following:

    “Columnist Robert Novak said Saturday Ambassador Joe Wilson did not forcefully object to the naming of his CIA operative wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, when Novak spoke to him prior to the publication of a column that sparked a federal investigation and sent White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby to jail.

    “He was not terribly exercised about it,” Novak said.

    Instead, Wilson focused on not being portrayed as simply an opponent of the Iraq war. Wilson also stressed that his wife went by his last name, Wilson, rather than Plame, Novak said.”

    Learn something new about Joe Wilson: He’s a sexist.

    The Piper

  142. 169

    Daddy Love spews:

    Caging is a problem, because since little to no voter fruad has been found anwhere, the voter “caged” out of their right to vote are, entirely or nearly so, innocents abused by a cynical partisan manipulation of our process draped in a completely false, duplicitous, and self-righteous “concern for vote integrity.”

    Complaints about vote-by-mail exemplify the most basic of Republican knee-jerk instincts: denial of reality. Our state is vote-by-mail. That’s the reality, and change is somewhere between unlikely and not-gonna-happen.

  143. 170

    Daddy Love spews:

    Republbican assholes hate our troops or anyone else who has the guts to speak their mind about the war.

    Pro-War Protesters Assault Father Of Soldier Killed in Iraq
    A counter-demonstration was also held by supporters of the war. One prominent peace activist Carlos Arredondo was beaten by pro-war activists. Arredondo’s son Alex died in Iraq three years ago. To honor Alex’s memory, Carlos has been crisscrossing the country pulling a flag-draped coffin. He marched with the coffin on Saturday and then left the march to return the coffin to his truck. That’s when a pro-war supporter tried to rip a photo of Carlos’ son from the coffin. When Carlos tried to save the photograph, he said a group of pro-war activists attacked him.

    Carlos Arredondo: “I was assaulted by a group of pro-war people. They come into the ground, and they kicked me and punched me. As a citizen of this country, it’s my duty and my responsibility to participate. As a father, who I lost my son in Iraq, I got to honor my son.”

    Public beatings for those with whose speech they disagree is the wave of Republican fascism that’s coming our way.

    Links:
    http://www.madison.com/post/bl.....ing/248549
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....war-group/
    http://www.amazon.com/End-Amer.....038;sr=8-1
    Photos at http://www.afterdowningstreet....../index.htm

  144. 171

    Daddy Love spews:

    Here’s a must-read about Republican fascism and how Blackwater may be the next Brownshirts.

    http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....hug-caste/

    Congress is finally asking questions of Erik Prince, the head of Blackwater, the private mercenary organization that massacred seventeen civilians in Iraq recently. As I mentioned before, Blackwater operates in Iraq entirely outside the rule of law and has close ties to the White House. The New York Times today reported just how close — Prince’s sister-in-law is a major Bush fundraiser and ally.

    What still evades the framing of this debate, though, is that the violent lawlessness perpetrated against civilians in Iraq by this newly created thug caste is a taste of what is in store for us at home — unless Congress confronts the President’s and Prince’s plans to bring Blackwater increasingly to a neighborhood near you. It is remarkable that the hearings focus on what Blackwater is doing in Iraq — but not on what Blackwater plans to and is legally able to do here in the US when the President determines there is a `public emergency’ that requires the restoration of `public order’ — a power that he arrogated more completely with the 2007 Defense Authorization Act. The second phase of the blueprint of what I have called in The End of America a `fascist shift’ is what we are beginning to see now: increasing physical intimidation of civilians and increasing staging or provocation of situations in the a federalized national guard or a Blackwater paramilitary force is sent in at the behest of a leader — over the heads of the people’s representatives — to `restore public order.’ I note that Congress is outraged that there were plans to stage a fake scenario of a dirty bomb detonation in three US cities next week — plans that were not fully revealed to Congress. The second stage of a fascist shift on the blueprint I identified in The End of America calls for disorienting public spectacles, sudden scenes of shocking violence against civilians (see the tasering of a student in Gainesville, Florida, and the death of a woman who looks like you or me in a holding cell in the Phoenix airport) and the declaration that a situation is unstable so call for a paramilitary force in order to keep the people safe.

  145. 172

    Jane Hague's Dog spews:

    PIPER: And you can always believe in the integrity of R.Novak — not.

    Explain, if you will, how how R. Armitage would know that he was “the first” to out Valery Plame? Who did he speak with prior to making this determination?

    I don’t buy it.

    For the sake of argument, let’s assume he’s telling the truth. Why then, since many other lives were on the line because of this revelation, did Cheney, Rove, and Libby not keep their mouths shut and try to downplay the story?

    You have no credible answer, Piper.

    Go fuck yourself.

  146. 173

    spews:

    @168
    Nice, you went down the Plame path! I have to give you an A for effort! Nice takedown, Darryl. Hey crackpiper, time to do some more homework. There’ve been few bigger piles of bullshit in the past few years than the mound that covered up the effort to discredit Joe Wilson by pointing out that his wife was a CIA agent.

  147. 174

    spews:

    @168
    “He was not terribly exercised about it,” Novak said.

    Instead, Wilson focused on not being portrayed as simply an opponent of the Iraq war. Wilson also stressed that his wife went by his last name, Wilson, rather than Plame, Novak said.”

    Amazing! And you can’t figure out how this completely disproves your point?

    If there was a single accidental leak, Wilson would have been much more concerned with keeping his wife’s identity secret. But it wasn’t. There was a concerted effort by the White House to get her name out in the press. And the reason for this was to simply paint Joe Wilson as an anti-war activist. The way Wilson reacted demonstrates that what Darryl is saying is true. Are you really too stupid to see that?

    It never ceases to amaze me how far wingnuts have shoved their heads up their own asses when it comes to the Plame case.

  148. 177

    A concerned Democrat spews:

    The way Wilson reacted demonstrates that what Darryl is saying is true. Are you really too stupid to see that?

    I hear you. The fact that Joe Wilson used was Vanity Fair as a cover was purely to keep his wife’s identity a secret. You repubs are so stoopid.

  149. 178

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    Daddy Love says:

    Caging is a problem, because since little to no voter fruad has been found anwhere, the voter “caged” out of their right to vote are, entirely or nearly so, innocents abused by a cynical partisan manipulation of our process draped in a completely false, duplicitous, and self-righteous “concern for vote integrity.”

    Complaints about vote-by-mail exemplify the most basic of Republican knee-jerk instincts: denial of reality. Our state is vote-by-mail. That’s the reality, and change is somewhere between unlikely and not-gonna-happen.

    That where I come in. Activities like my Masters should not only be accepted, but encrouraged. If we are going to vote in a corrupt system we need to expose it.

  150. 179

    spews:

    I hear you. The fact that Joe Wilson used was Vanity Fair as a cover was purely to keep his wife’s identity a secret.

    By that point, she’d long been outed. That’s the point. Try to keep up.

  151. 182

    spews:

    Piper Scott,
    Let’s see…how is wingnuttopia clouding your judgment today…

    “Columnist Robert Novak said Saturday Ambassador Joe Wilson did not forcefully object to the naming of his CIA operative wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, when Novak spoke to him prior to the publication of a column that sparked a federal investigation and sent White House aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby to jail.”

    Sure…but why should he be unhappy about that? You wingnuts somehow think there was something secret about the existence of Valerie Wilson or the fact that she was married to Joe Wilson. Not so—there was no attempt to hide that. What was NOT known was that she worked for the CIA. Part of her cover was that she was an energy analyst who for Brewster-Jennings & Associates.

    Obviously, Novak did not ask Joe Wilson whether he could divulge Valerie’s status as a CIA operative.

    “Wilson also stressed that his wife went by his last name, Wilson, rather than Plame, Novak said.”

    Learn something new about Joe Wilson: He’s a sexist.”

    What the fuck are you babbling about? How is it “sexist” to point out the name ones wife uses?

    Warning wingnut Piper Scott…day by day you become more and more fringe—you are sounding more and more like Puddybud! Be careful, man! A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

  152. 183

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    178 JBD

    Political civil disobeyers should go to prison. Did Jane?

    10/07/2007 at 12:18 pm

    No, KCRE knew I was a fraud and did nothing. It was only until Jane went to the press that they did something. I guess they thought that if they stayed quiet long enough it would go away and they would continue to register dead democrats as usual. roof roof.

  153. 184

    Jane Balogh's dog spews:

    JBD

    Unlike you, I acknowledge no Master. You’ve got to free your mind instead.

    10/07/2007 at 12:18 pm

    I have a master but it is not guvmint. I live by the motto “never trust and always question guvmint”… especially when it comes to taxes. roof roof.

  154. 187

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey Piper: When YLB – The Clueless One: blogs this:

    YLB says: Hey Pooper, What did I say in my comment that wasn’t true? Got any other neo-con bullshit you care sell me today? How’s the commissions on that?

    When I ask that watch it. When he blames all you write on right-wing sites when he drinks the “white cream” of the left wing whack-job sites!