by Darryl, 07/30/2006, 12:05 PM

By now you have heard about the shooting of innocent people last Friday in downtown Seattle by a Christian terrorist. And what I want to know is what are we going to do about the rise of Christian terrorism in this country?

Sure, the Seattle Times inadvertently report that Naveed Afzal Haq was a Muslim-American:

A Muslim-American man angry with Israel barged into the offices of the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle Friday afternoon and opened fire with a handgun, killing one woman and wounding five others before surrendering to police.

But now we know the cold, hard, and incontestable fact: Haq was a recent convert to Christianity:

He told friends he felt alienated from his own family, in part because his career had disappointed his father and also because he had disavowed Islam last year, converting to Christianity.

Haq had begun studying the Bible, attending weekly men’s spiritual group meetings, only to stop coming a few months after his baptism.
[...]
The group’s leader, Albert Montelongo, said Haq started studying the Bible and in December he underwent a water baptism at the non-denominational church, performed by Montelongo. He said Haq accepted his new faith, though he knew that he would also be offending his own family and its deeply rooted culture.

Whether Haq drew inspiration from online Crusadist preachers, or whether this act of terrorism was funded, organized, or propagated by a local Christian terrorist cell, something must be done.

Don’t misunderstand me, I not one of those eliminationist assholes who think that all Christians should be rounded up and gassed. Even so, how can we expect to live in a civil society with extremists going off and shooting innocent people in the name of Christ. I mean, can’t we just round up the suspicious ones and isolate them in fenced-in camps somewhere in rural New Mexico? We’ll call them “gated communities” so that everyone involved can feel a little more dignity about it. At the very least we should make them wear some type of identifiable mark or article of clothing.

Besides the heinous crimes of killing and injuring people, Haq also committed the crime of blasphemy when the recent convert to Christianity besmirched Islam during his rampage by claiming he was an angry Muslim. (In fact, he hasn’t been practicing Islam since 1994.) It’s always the new converts to a religion who are the most fanatical, but trying to pin this on his forsaken religion is beyond the pale….

Sure…there will be apologists who will point out that Mr. Haq suffered from bipolar disorder, that he had a previous arrest for anti-social behavior (exposing himself at a shopping mall), that he was well-educated but minimally employed at a Home Depot, that he felt isolated from his family after renouncing Islam, that he was lonely, that he badly wanted a romantic relationship, that he suffered discrimination as a brown-skinned person with a suspicious-sounding name in a lilly-white Pacific Northwest, or that all he desperately wanted was to “fit in.” Some have even suggested that his job led him to “go Depot.”

All of these are excuses made by touchie-feelie liberals who refuse to accept that America is under siege by Christian terrorists. The man knew exactly what he was doing—he trained in his violent idology and weapons for months before fulfilling his holy mission.

As you might expect, Jewish and Islamic groups were quick to condemn the violence against their people and their religions.

The Washington, D.C.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, issued a statement calling the shootings a “senseless attack on a religious institution.”

“The American Muslim and Jewish communities must do whatever is within their power to prevent the current conflict in the Middle East from being transplanted to this country,” the council said.

And the Arab-American community also condemned the attack.

What I want to know is this: where is the outrage from Christian groups? These groups are complicit through their silence and inaction when one of their own goes on a killing spree against members of another religion.

How Haq is prosecuted—what punishment is sought, what excuses are made and accepted for his violence, and the outcome after all appeals are exhausted—will speak loudly to our society’s true tolerance for Christian terrorists in our midst.

91 Responses to “On the Recent Terrorist Attack in Seattle”

1. sgmmac spews:

Nichols is gay?

2. Darryl spews:

IDGAF @ 74

Ummm…the only problem is, the essay wasn’t written by Major Chung.

You Wingnuts are quite gullible, aren’t you?

3. Daddy Love spews:

74

We have already “lost the war”

There is an Iranian Shiite government in Iraq. We, the military occupiers, cannot even control the capital city, let alone the countryside. Just as the 70K Iraqi militia members we moved into Baghdad won’t stop the violence, the few thousands exhausted and demoralized troops whose trip home we canceled AGAIN.

At the sme time, the almost mythical military prowess of our favorite client state (Israel) has come up more than short as after weeks of intense fighting and a better than 10-1 kill ration of Lebanese to Israelis, the capacity of Hezbiollah to attack Israel with rockets not only remains undamaged but they have been able to fire record numbers in recent days. The capacity of non-state armed entities to wage war sucessfully, which we helped piot in Afghanistan, is a threat to the state system. And no one yet has an answer to this, least of all the bumbling Bushes backing unchecked Israeli state violence against the Lebanese government and Lebanese civilians.

4. Anonymous spews:

frenatae forex broker frenatae

5. LeftTurn spews:

Janet what’s most disturbing is that you really believe the Islamofacists are an equivalent threat to the Christians. You pick out one publicity hound who shot up the Jewish Center and say he is representative of the religion. At the same time, you make no comments about the various right wing Christians calling for the deaths of judges, abortion doctors, newspaper reporters , etc. The Christians teach an eye-for-an-eye. The Christains are responsible for most of the war ever fought on this planet!

I could go on but you are not only delusional, you’re a liar, a coward and a slut.

6. The Socialist spews:

Dutch you all ready sead that buttnuts

7. The Socialist spews:

he doesn’t know what socialism even is really he just parrot what his hero rush limpha say. If you are to the left of Atila the Hun your a socialist

8. The Socialist spews:

lol mel gibson (aka) Moses has apologized now for his spewing of anti semitic comments . Yes I bet he has rofl

9. The Socialist spews:

here check this out http://www.marxists.org/

10. The Socialist spews:

Sen. Ted Kennedy: Justices “Roberts And Alito Are Justifying Every Concern We Expressed When They Were Nominated”……………….

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sen-edward-m-kennedy-/roberts-and-alito-misled-_b_26095.html

yahoo I called this one in my self this morning and im on the front page even. Im so proud :-)

11. For the Clueless spews:

Dr. E – you’re much too generous to a wingnut ideologue like ID(IOT)GAF. You’re assuming he’s actually capable of critical thought!!

12. The Socialist spews:

Newsweek Editor Zakaria: Rumsfeld “Seems Literally In A Parallel Universe And Slightly Deranged”…………..http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/30/rumsfeld-deranged/

13. Green Thumb spews:

Mr. Socialist, I did a quick look at the archives in your site and noticed that it doesn’t list contemporary critical theorists such as Ulrich Beck. I assume that’s because whoever manages the site takes a pretty fundamentalist approach toward neo-Marxism. For example, Beck rejects Marx’s class analysis — he argues that it is largely obsolete in contemporary society.

If you are trolling for supporters I’m not sure how much success you’ll find here. The Pacific Northwest seems to have a different sensibility among its “progressives” than back east. It’s more rooted in prairie populism than democratic socialism.

Of course, the wingers will disagree, but I suspect few if any have actually taken the time to study political philosophy. Thus, the ridiculous conflation of liberalism and democratic socialism.

14. LeftTurn spews:

Leave it to the Christians. Hey, aren’t most (if not all) the right wing, whackjob, inbred, cowardly, chickenhawk, idiot, batshit crazy baby-raping republicans on this board Christians? Hey, you all have something in common with the shooter at the Jewish Center. Isn’t that special?

15. EvergreenRailfan spews:

4

I think that this guy does not deserve the Guerney, that should be only for those who are too heavy for the gallows and the trap door in Walla Walla.

I just find it odd that it seems people were all ready to condemm a whole people over the shooting, without knowing the facts. I think it was a good idea for the SPD to not just patrol areas around Synogauge’s, but also Mosques, to prevent riots.

16. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Also, how do they justify the overtime for the SPD doing this extra duty? It turns out this is the one time a year where the SPD does not allow vacations. Seafair is next week.

17. Enoch Root spews:

It wasn’t terrorism, Darryl. It was a hate crime, according to what has been made public.

18. sgmmac spews:

On Dec 23, 1944 – “Battle of the Buldge” – An entire U.S. armored division was retreating from the Germans in the Ardennes forest when a Sergeant in a tank destroyer spotted an American digging a foxhole. The GI, PFC Martin, 325th Glider Infantry Regiment, looked up and asked, “Are you looking for a safe place?” “Yeah, answered the tanker, “Well, buddy,” he drawled, “just pull your vehicle behind me…….

I’M the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are going!”

19. RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

Hey, aren’t most (if not all) the right wing, whackjob, inbred, cowardly, chickenhawk, idiot, batshit crazy baby-raping republicans on this board Christians? Hey, you all have something in common with the shooter at the Jewish Center. Isn’t that special?

Commentby LeftTurn— 7/30/06@ 1:39 pm

Yeah, er… damn those muslim Christians flocking to Seattle and killing Jews……. Hahahaha. You Nazi leftist are hilarious. hehe

20. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Note that GBS has NOT posted since the arrest of the Seattle gunman.

21. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

The report says Gibson then launched into a barrage of anti-Semitic statements: “F*****g Jews… The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.” Gibson then asked the deputy, “Are you a Jew?” [……………………………………………OK……Why is it bad for Mel Gibson to call a cop a “Fucking Jew”, but it’s OK for Hillary to call Dick Morris a “Fucking Jew Bastard”? Goldy?………. Bueller?………… Frye?……….. Anyone?

22. PBJ spews:

Dumb Daryl wrote:

“Even so, how can we expect to live in a civil society with extremists going off and shooting innocent people in the name of Christ. I”

Are you insane?? The guy did not say “I am a Christian, I hate you Jews.” HE said he was a Muslim.

Again. Breath deep so some oxygen gets to you two brain cells. The shooter said he was a MUSLIM.

Save you Christian hatred for another day.

23. RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

All you have to know is that 1)He was a Muslim and 2) He move to “McDermott Land” to know he was a terrorist. Seattle is a safe haven for Jew Killers. Hell McDermott was patting Sadam on the back while he was launching missiles into Isreal.

24. road apples spews:

This is nothing more than mocking other bloggers. Get a life.

25. Daddy Love spews:

Oh, and it is true that because Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani is not a Khomeinist, his large following does not hew to the Iranian leadership’s religious line. But Hezbollah as a whole and Muqtada al-Sadr (a Hezboillah supporter) and his Mahdi Army are Khomeinists, so in the face of American-Israeli aggression against the Lebanese Shiites (from their perspective), Sistani is being forced to side with them against the Americans. Good news for us, eh?

26. Anonymous spews:

porcelainize forex broker porcelainize

27. For the Clueless spews:

One last note on that Vernon Chong bullsh*t. To my reading it’s just another piece of wingnut propaganda circulated through e-mail channels. It’s mind-boggling how many people are addicted to passing on junk email – rumors, dirty jokes, virus-scares, urban legends and specious essays like the one ID(IOT)GAF naively posted here.

I’m sure the right-wing hate factories are well aware of this behavior and try to distibute their propaganda through this channel.

28. For the Clueless spews:

Darryl – brilliant!!!

ID(IOT)GAF – How’s that Major Chung bullsh*t going? LMAOAY!!!!

Cheer up buddy. Just watch some Faux News for about six hours then make your eyes bleed by reading NewWhacks (NewsMax) and Wingnut Daily (WND) – that cures anything so bad as pangs of doubht for a wingnut!

29. Observer spews:

This prompts one to conclude that that religion is not the cause of this miscreant’s behavior (and by extension all of his ilk). muslim or Christian, note that the one thing in common is ARAB. Get it!! These a-holes know nothing but violence. they are bred to blame other people for problems of their own making. May they and their misbegotten relatives all burn in hell.

30. sgmmac spews:

It needs to be treated as a Capital Case. The only question is if the prosecutor has the guts to go for it. I am not hopeful that it will happen, knowing that the Seattle press and the Seattle Moonbats are already touting his problems as the cause. They will surely feel the need to “mother” him. This is the Nanny State and noticeably missing are the leaders of this Nanny State denouncing the crime.

31. americafirst spews:

You’re God Damned right Bush is no Patton. I’ll pit Clinton’s war record in Kosovo against Bush’s in Iraq any day of the week. Dipshit. Clinton and Clark learned the war lessons of the passed and created military history. Never before has a nation been forced to surrender without boots on the ground. War plan executed flawlessly. Combat deaths ZERO. UN resolutions ZERO, UN objections NONE. Purely a demonstration of superiour LEADERSHIP on the world’s stage as the leader of the free world. Commentby GBS— 7/28/06@ 3:49 pm

Thanks for making my point GBS; you feminized libs only want to fight if you can do it without getting your hands dirty. Clinton sucks up to the Saudis and blows some Serbs who can’t fight back to bits and you call it a great victory. Clinton, like most libs, was too cowardly to take on the Islamofascists.

32. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Fishkill, N.Y. – For a dozen years, upstate New Yorkers’ view of Republican Rep. Sue Kelly could be summed up in a song – the 1970s pop tune ”Still the One.” This election year, a few Democrats, including singer-songwriter John Hall who penned the tune, are looking to unseat the six-term congresswoman /break/ The creeping suburbanization of the region, with New York City residents moving north in pursuit of more affordable homes and better schools, has made the district more Democratic in recent years.

Democrats are fleeing NYC, which is essentially politically a Democrat creation with its regulations, unions, schools and policies despite having had Republican mayors lately (who can’t change what the city is made of so easily) so that they can elect people who will create the same situations in their new homes. Kinda sounds like Muslims fleeing their homes to reestablish their problems, doesn’t it?

33. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Hi Green Thumb on you post in number #10 the http://www.marxists.org/ is just a place were people can learn the basics of Marx’s and Socialism.

Commentby The Socialist [.....................................Don't the NEA controlled public schools do a good job of teaching socialism and communism?]

34. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Los Angeles – The West Coast leader of the Nation of Islam will not be charged with battery for a scuffle with police officers last year, the city attorney announced. Police Chief William J. Bratton had requested that Minister Tony Muhammad and two of his security guards be charged with misdemeanor battery /break/ According to the police department, a ”very belligerent and uncooperative” Muhammad disobeyed police orders and took part in a mob assault on officers.

Must have been friends of the DEmocrat Congresswoman from Georgia.

35. The Socialist spews:

Hi Green Thumb on you post in number #10 the http://www.marxists.org/ is just a place were people can learn the basics of Marx’s and Socialism. I think it is important to learn the history of it. here is the site that is more my site The Socialist Party of the U.S.A. http://www.sp-usa.org/ I am a member of the Socialist Party .

But I have come to the reality that for now at lest we are a too party system so I vote democratic sense they are the closet to my ideals.

I post the Marxist site so other democrats can learn what real Socialism is and how most of all how the capitalist system really work. How the capitalist pretty much want to go too as cheap of labor with as few benefits for workers as they can. That is why they wanted nafta and now cafta. To be able to have as cheap of labor as possible . Democrats need to under stand what is really happening to them in order to fight it.

And there really hasn’t been a true Socialist country yet . Probably Holland is the closest example of what it could be.

And just because a country calls them self Socialist or Communist doesn’t make them so.

Look at the republicans they call them selves fiscally responsibly. I think you can see that’s a big lie

Here read some of these articles http://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/index.htm The one on basic economics is a good one to start with.

I hope you will try this with an open mind.

36. righton spews:

whoda thunk libbies could come up w/ someone dummer than goldy…

yipes. Too bad you got another month till school starts again. Are you really lucy headless?

37. Dutch spews:

Holland a socialist country ? That’s funny. Just because they sell subsidized dope in Amsterdam doesn’t make them socialist. They are as socialist as France, Germany, Britain or any other Western European Country. Shows you how little you actually know.
I know the Netherlands well…and they are no socialist country.

38. americafirst spews:

All you have to know is that 1)He was a Muslim and 2) He move to “McDermott Land” to know he was a terrorist. Seattle is a safe haven for Jew Killers. Hell McDermott was patting Sadam on the back while he was launching missiles into Isreal.

Commentby RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy— 7/30/06@ 2:15 pm

Rufus, McDermott is pissed off because Jews took over the shrink business. He’ll probably show up in Tehran pretty soon and congratulate them for sending rockets to Hezbollah.

39. Rujax spews:

I nominate HowcanyoubePROUDtobeanEVILfuckingchristianistBITCH for the camp in New Mexico.

SHE likes the internment idea so much SHE can just try it.

BTW Darryl-

Funny you don’t LOOK “bluish”(nyuk, nyuk).

40. The Socialist spews:

Labour

The first premise of all human existence and, therefore, of all history, [is that humans] must be in a position to live in order to be able to “make history”. But life involves before everything else eating and drinking, a habitation, clothing and many other things. The first historical act is thus the production of the means to satisfy these needs, the production of material life itself. And indeed this is an historical act, a fundamental condition of all history, which today, as thousands of years ago, must daily and hourly be fulfilled merely in order to sustain human life.

Karl Marx

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/subject/frames/basic-economics.htm

41. Daddy Love spews:

74

You left out some attack tidbits such as the bombing of the Atlanta Olympics, the OK City Murrah Building, and/or the organized bombings and murders of doctors dispensing reproductive servrices nationwide. How come we’re not “at war” with the white American right-wing terrorists?

42. sgmmac spews:

Unfucking believable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

43. Dr. E spews:

28

“note that the one thing in common is ARAB.”

Since when did Pakistanis become Arabs? Please, please, educate me…

44. Green Thumb spews:

Klake, since you are so absolutely sure that the Netherlands is a socialist country, could you please define your terms? What distinguishes a socialist from a non-socialist nation? I’m really confused, because you’ve described Democratic leaders in Washington state as socialist. Are you saying that Washington is a socialist state? If not, what characteristics would it require to become one?

45. Daddy Love spews:

Nice debunking, Darryl. I hadn’t checked Snopes.

46. The Socialist spews:

Shooting suspect was baptized http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/ wow it’s right on the front page

47. klake spews:

Holland a socialist country? That’s funny. Just because they sell subsidized dope in Amsterdam doesn’t make them socialist. They are as socialist as France, Germany, Britain or any other Western European Country. Shows you how little you actually know.
I know the Netherlands well…and they are no socialist country.

Commentby Dutch— 7/30/06@ 3:38 pm

Hey Dutch they are all Socialist countries and depends on the government to take care of them from cradle to grave, Now you have been smoking some of that Dutch Dope from Canada when you claim they are not Socialist. Here in Seattle they are not Socialist but Socialist Democrats and they want the government to take care of them even if they still not show up for work. I know the Netherlands well…. And they are Socialist country without a doubt.

48. Daddy Love spews:

74

One more comment about your quoted “5 million Christians” killed by the Nazi government of Germany.

First, any Christians killed by the Nazis were not killed because they were Christian. National Socilaism was a rabidly Christian movement. They had co-opted a primitive nationalistic, nativist religionism as effectively as our current GOP leaders have theirs.

Second, it is not correct to say “5 million Christians” were killed, it was “5 million non-Jews.” Some Russians are Christian, some are not, but whether or not they were, Russians were killed because they were a racial impurity. The Gypsies, or Roma, people of early 20th century Europe were largely non-Christian, but hundreds of thousands of them (maybe ten percent of thsoe 5 million) were killed because they were Roma, whatever religion they did or did not follow. Mental patients were killed. What religion did they follow?

I would say that the fact that 6 million Jews were killed solely for being Jews, and that all the other “out” groups taken together don’t outnumber them inidicates that it was indeed primarily Jews who were targeted in the Holocaust, and that your thoughts along this line skate quite close to those of the Holocaust deniers.

49. The Socialist spews:

#30 I sead as close to a socialist country. And I would agree france and briton and the rest of western E.U. are pretty socialist minded. I would say but not completely there is no country like that in existence in the world.

Well Venezuela. and what Hugo Chávez is trying to accomplish is probably the closest to working on a democratic socialist country at the moment.

and socialism is an ongoing experiment just like capitalism is or democracy is it is not set in stone you know.
And I dought you even really know what socialism is. You just know the capitalist propaganda of what it is.

Just like the propaganda about unions or liberals or that global warming doesn’t exist.

The capitalist will do anything say anything to hold on to the profit margin and there power over the lives of workers so they can maximize there profits. Look at the insane profits the oil companies are making now. And the Drug companies or wall mart for that matter .

Why do you think they don’t really do anything about illegal immigration . They want the cheap labor to flood the country so it drives down everyone’s wages. Just look at the news read a little marx with an open mind and then look at what the capitalist actually do in real time and you will see it clearly .

http://www.marxists.org/

50. LeftTurn spews:

Remember that Puddybutt and MikeWebbSucks are one in the same. And fortunately for me, I can’t hear Puddybutt/Webb over the screams of his wife as I satisfy her.

51. LiberalRedneck spews:

-All you have to know is that 1)He was a Muslim and 2) He move to “McDermott Land” to know he was a terrorist. Seattle is a safe haven for Jew Killers. -

RUFUS, JCH REP Kennedy, – all these mentally challenged freaks shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

Remember, even after the horrors of 9-11, the Republicans Right did everything it could to make sure REAL domestic terrorists could still arm themselves with handguns and assault rifles.

52. LiberalRedneck spews:

Handguns + mental illness + religious zealotry = bad news

What a complete joke it is that the Seattle Times Ed Board and the Klowns at Sound Politics are calling this an act of ‘domestic terrorism.’

At least we know where you can pick up all the handguns you want if you’re mentally ill, thanks to the the right wing politics of the the Tri-Shities.

53. Dr. E spews:

MWS @ 63

Don’t know if you have any muslim friends, but let me give you a personal anecdote: the first person to contact me on 9/11 to with expressions of horror, disgust, and sympathy was a Lebanese friend of mine. The second person I heard from, almost immediately thereafter, was an Iranian friend of mine. (Lebanese and Iranian, respectively, in birth and citizenship.) Both assuring me that, from neither the Sunni nor Sunni perspective, would such crimes be the actions of true muslims. Nevertheless, read my post above for an alternate view of the jihad movement.

54. Anonymous spews:

puberulous forex broker puberulous

55. americafirst spews:

Haq calls himself a Moslem as he does the shootings and moonbats claim he was really a Christian. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

56. The Socialist spews:

These dame Christen terrorist what are we going to do about this? I say we kill them every last one of them all over the world . We need to stamp out this cancer on our country and the world . We will never be safe until every last one is gone

57. Dr. E spews:

IDGAF

I’ll further say that the article is largely illogical, and takes an exceptionally narrow, nationallistic view of a fairly complex international process. It would be informative, for instance to read Emmanuel Todd’s recent book After the Empire. (Todd is the French historian and demographer who, in his 1976 book The Final Fall predicted the fall of the Soviet Union, mainly through demographic analysis of its fall in birth rates.)

The second chapter of Todd’s book, entitled “The Myth of Universal Terrorism”, explains Islamic fundamentalism and violent jihadist movements as a manifestation of the psychological disorientation undergone by a population during the process of modernization. As he (in my view) rightly points out, most of the Muslim world was living in an essentially “pre-modern” state throughout most of the twentieth century (as viewed, for instance, by literacy and birth rates); a considerable number of Muslim societies are still currently living in this state (Saharan and sub-Saharan Africa, for instance). Along with the process of modernization comes a drastic, and often violent adjustment — Todd cites many other examples in world history, from the American and French Revolutions, to the Russian Revolution, etc. — the more drastic, the greater the tendency toward violent upheaval within that society.

The key concept to understand, however, is that such transitional adjustments, however violent, are temporary, and as such can be expected to be self-limiting phenomena, with the end result being a stabilization toward peace, and often liberal democracy. This assertion is supported with ample empirical evidence. Thus, the concept of a “global war on terror” that may be never-ending is, when seen through this lens, completely bogus on its face. The author in fact says as much:

“Universal terrorism” is absurd from the standpoint of the Muslim world, which will eventually work its way through its transitional crisis without outside intervention. It could only be useful to the United States if it somehow needs to have an Old World embroiled in a state of permanent war. (emphasis mine)

Chong’s assertion, by the way, that “[w]e would no longer be the premier country in the world” is seen by Todd and others to already be a fait accompli. Proof of this in the military sense can be seen in the adversaries the US chooses to attack: military midgets that pose a threat neither to the US nor to their immediate neighbors. Additional proof can be seen in the fact that our military is already exhausted and overextended in engagements with such decrepit militaries.

Such ideas, however, would probably not go over terribly well with most conservatives, and with quite a number of moderates and liberals in this country. Nevertheless, such a broadening of ones perspectives and understanding of the American situation is, as far as I’m concerned, essential if we’re to meaningfully look farther than 5 seconds into the future of this country. The resistance of most conservatives to seriously consider the true future consequences of their beliefs, actions, and policies is dangerous to the American people, especially when such future considerations are inherently grounded in the the present, which is further narrowly defined by an extremely nationalist point of view. The same, or highly similar criticism could be made of the majority of the Democratic leadership of this country as well.) We have to educate ourselves as a population, uncomfortable as that may be at times, if we are truly to thrive as a nation.

58. Janet SS spews:

Darryl (may I call you Darryl?), I understand your sensitivity. You sound Jewish to me, so I would imagine that right now you’d be a little worried about your safety.

That’s actually not a bad idea, but not because you are Jewish. Your big problem is that you have been determined to be anti-administration. The FBI has you on a list. Need I say any more?

But back to this shooting. In the grand scheme of things it really wasn’t such big of a deal. People get shot every day in Seattle, and as Richard Pope’s research conclusively shows, 90 percent of convicted murders are registered Democrats. So I wouldn’t go there.

At any rate, the killer was clearly a lone nut case. I can’t imagine where he got the idea to do this. It certainly wasn’t me – my banker is Jewish.

So why don’t you move on to some other topic of importance. For example, at dinner last night Richard said something about the mayor being gay. Is that true?

59. Janet S spews:

left turn – your complete reliance on perversion just confirms that you have a psychosis that needs treatment. You are incapable of writing without including your obsession. I hope I don’t ever meet you in person, it would be a frightening experience.

When was the last time an abortion doctor was killed? What happened to the killer? We have laws, and people caught doing this are thrown in jail. That you compare this to a society that condemns 16 year old girls to death for being raped shows that you are willfully ignorant. You say it is equivalent for some commentator to make threats to judges with Hizbollah firing missiles from neighborhoods, and causing the deaths of many civilians. The commentators are guilty of poor judgement. Hizbollah is guilty of terrorism.

It is sad that your viewpoint needs to be so regularly denounced.

60. Daddy Love spews:

Well, come on, he was from Tri-Cities. That would drive anyone mad.

61. Darryl spews:

Mike Webb Sucks @ 63

Darryl: I don’t remember the Arab-American Community apologizing for the 9/11 WTC attack and many more Jews died in that one!

Perhaps it is just early-onset Alzheimer’s?

62. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Dutch, Why not take a hard look at North Korea, and the Hillary Paradise of Fidel’s Cuba. Fine examples of communism!!

63. Dutch spews:

You guys have no clue on what socialism and true communism really is. Read Marx, read Leonard (Die Revolution entlaesst ihre Kinder) and you will get a better understanding. Just because some European countries have some different “social” model or as they call it a social contract with their citizen providing a different set of benefits (like universal healthcare or other items) does not make them socialist countries, nor would they want to be socialistic countries. Go there and live there for a while and you’ll see it’s not much different from let’s say Seattle. And why did Communism not work out ? What happened with it ? Was it Reagan who got the big bad wolf to it’s knees or was it that human nature is just not able to do this. If you want communism, the only group of people who came close to it were the early Christians in Rome …working for the better good of society, taking care of each other without the demand of rewards etc.

64. Janet S spews:

I guess I should be flattered that someone is impersonating me. Yeah, it’s just what I would have said, having had the incredible revelation that the shooter is a Christian!

As said earlier, he declared himself to be a Muslim. I guess his conversion and baptism didn’t take.

I don’t recall Christian leaders calling for the elimination of others, as do many Muslim leaders. If someone is a nut case, I suspect they will listen to the other nut cases in the world. He searched the internet for the Jewish Federation, so he could easily have accessed the rantings of the Islamofascists.

But, Darryl, cute points for finally making a statement. Now go play with other children, and spare the world your triteness.

65. Dr. E spews:

45

Craig, you don’t understand the point at all. Neither are “fine examples of communism”, because neither are even close to being communist in the Marxist sense. In the case of North Korea, there is additional ideological baggage grafted onto the make-believe worker’s paradise, there in the form of the so-called “Juche” philosophy (i.e. of self-reliance). You could read a little bit about all of this, and get a semblance of an education; that way, your posts wouldn’t be so utterly inanae.

66. LeftTurn spews:

JANET S lied, “I don’t recall Christian leaders calling for the elimination of others”

You haven’t been paying attention to Dr. James Dobson, Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell then have you?

67. Green Thumb spews:

Dr. E @ 47:

If you’re referring to comment 45, that’s JCH. He’s been here for many months and I can recall only one or two times that he’s ever tried to offer a serious comment. He’s here to engage in mindless carpet bombing. As such, I’ll settle for his “shrugga, shrugga, shrugga” poetry, which at least shows a bit of literary artistry in its masturbatory excess.

I appreciate your attempts to encourage folks to show their logic and facts. If nothing else, it may help the “silent majority” who reads this blog better understand the assumptions behind various positions taken here.

68. Living in the 8th spews:

Goldy, this is why Dems are seen as weak on terror. You ignore that this man shot jews in the name of Islam (“I’m a muslim-american”. He obviously wanted people to make a connection between his experience with Islam and the violence) and blame it on christians. This is pathetic and underscores the inabililty of the left to see terror for what it is. As long as you guys continue to pull this stuff, you won’t be taken seriously on the issue of national security, because you’re always looking for a way to excuse Islamofascist hatred. If this guy really dabbled in christianity, clearly he didn’t take it that seriously and felt stronger connections to Islam. Don’t deny it.

69. Janet S spews:

Left turn – every time Robertson and Falwell makes one of their their stupid statements, they are condemned. Their statements are more along the line that God is smiting, not that their listeners should take action, so there really is no comparison. (Got any proof that Dobson has ever made such comments?)

I sure don’t hear the muslims community denounce the lunatic rantings of their mullahs and imams. They call for their followers to eliminate Jews and Americans. They preach hate. If you can’t figure out the difference, then you willingly don’t want to. That is why the left can’t be trusted to deal with the threat of terrorism.

70. RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

You haven’t been paying attention to Dr. James Dobson, Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell then have you?

Commentby LeftTurn— 7/30/06@ 8:03 pm

Really. Wow. Can you give more details? You know like what pizzaria they want bombed so the walls can be decorated with the entrails of children.

71. Rujax spews:

Janet (you miserable slut)-

EXCUSE ME?

Robertson, Falwell, et al condemned by WHOM?

Irrelevant “left-wingers”????

Certainly NOT by republican politicians, other evangullibles, news commentators, (ohh) the PRESIDENT, etc.

Your version of “the truth” has got so many stretch marks it’s lookin’ like your midriff.

72. LeftTurn spews:

Janet S there’s no threat, none, to America that’s as great as the Christian Taliban. And you can parse words and make excuses all you like. I don’t see you and your ilk distancing yourself from Robertson when he says we should “take out” the leader of a soverign nation. And yes I have proof that Dobson had made such comments. In a mailer he sent to my house trying to scam me for money-”We should put an end to abortion and those who practice it.” Sounds like he wants to kill abortion doctors to me. Too bad someone didn’t abort him and you for that matter.

As for understanding terror, the left couldn’t be any worse at it than the right. Bush let 9.11 happen on his watch. Bush tried to turn over our ports to the towellheads, Bush spread our army so thin fighting a worthless war for oil that we can’t defend against real threats. Bush cut VA and homeland security money and failed to armor our troops.

We see where your right wing pals will take us when it comes to terror and the answer is right down the path to ruin.

73. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Dr. E, Cuba and North Korea are not communist? Gee, that’s news to most of the free world. Wrong again, Dr. E, and another F minus for you. BTW, Sad that taxpayers pay money for libs like you to teach. Something tells me you would never make it in the private sector.

74. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Janet S there’s no threat, none, to America that’s as great as the Christian Taliban.

Commentby LeftTurn [..............................................................................................................................................Er, Left, Turn, Remember 9/11?????? That was not Jerry Falwell flying those planes into the Trade Towers.]

75. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Janet (you miserable slut)-

Commentby Rujax [...........Big talk to a girl. You must have been a really terror in high school.]

76. RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

In a mailer he sent to my house trying to scam me for money-”We should put an end to abortion and those who practice it.” Sounds like he wants to kill abortion doctors to me. Too bad someone didn’t abort him and you for that matter.
Commentby LeftTurn— 7/30/06@ 10:07 pm

Could he have meant outlawing it through the passing of legistlation? You know kind of like what we are going to do with gay marriage if we get a couple more senators on board next time. Man you libs sure have trouble with words. Of course what do you expect from the crowd who hasn’t figured out what “is” is yet.

77. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Los Angeles – Jewish groups have demanded Mel Gibson be investigated for hate crimes after the Hollywood star allegedly made anti-Semitic comments to US police officers when he was stopped on suspicion of drink-driving and speeding. /break/ Calling for a criminal investigation into the Oscar-winning actor and director’s remarks, Abraham Foxman, the national director of the US Jewish Anti-Defamation League, said: ‘’We believe there should be consequences to bigots and bigotry.’’ […………………………………………………………………………………..Fair enough, but I must have missed the “hate crime” investigation of Hillary against Dick Morris ["You Fucking Jew Bastard!"]. Could any of you commie libs repost? hehe, JCH]

78. Janet S spews:

LT – what is most disturbing is that you really believe that Christians are an equivalent threat to the islamofascists. You pick out three publicity hounds, and say they are representative of the religion. At the same time, you make no comments about the ruler of a nation who calls for the extermination of a country. The Palestinians teach death to jews and do not show Israel in their text books. The REAL taliban kills women for showing their faces.

I could go on, but it would do no good. You are delusional.

79. For the Clueless spews:

No one from the US Arab Community denounced the attack.

“The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee today condemned the horrifying series of attacks on the World Trade Center towers in New York and government buildings including the Pentagon in Washington DC.

“Arab Americans, like all Americans, are shocked and angered by such brutality, and we share all the emotions of our fellow citizens. Arab Americans view these attacks as targeting all Americans without exception.”

- American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee

LMAO at the “clear-thinking”, i.e. hate-filled Wingnut Obsession Sucks aka MWS!!!!!

80. For the Clueless spews:

Wingnut Obsession Sucks – you think there are no Arab-Americans in the U.S. military putting their lives on the line?

Why should THEY have to APOLOGIZE?

Wingnut Obssession Sucks, like almost all of your fellow travelers on this comment board you’re a shambling drunk of an ideologue – anything BUT a clear thinker.

That really scares me to write that – NOT!!! LMAOAY!

81. Mike Webb Sucks spews:

He’sSoClueless: Thanks for finally acknowledging I am a clear thinker. Scary for you to write that huh? When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor before WWII many Japanese joined the military to show they were AMERICANS. No one from the US Arab Community denounced the attack. You are the ignoramous!

82. For the Clueless spews:

I don’t remember the Arab-American Community apologizing for the 9/11 WTC attack and many more Jews died in that one!

WOS – Not only do you suck, you are insane! Why should any American citizen have to APOLOGIZE for mass murder committed by mostly Saudi Arabian nationals?

What happened to you “clear thinker”? A few too many shots at the bottle this morning?

83. Mike Webb Sucks spews:

So the next time a non Arab, Pashtu, Persian or Urdu attacks someone where they die, and they claim “I’m a Christian” and it’s later determined they are really a Muslim; you’ll dig deep and write some really wonderful words on them too?

84. Mike Webb Sucks spews:

Darryl wrote:”And the Arab-American community also condemned the attack.”

Darryl: I don’t remember the Arab-American Community apologizing for the 9/11 WTC attack and many more Jews died in that one!

85. Mike Webb Sucks spews:

LeftHisTurdBehindLostHisBrain: Wrote this about Janet S.: “I could go on but you are not only delusional, you’re a liar, a coward and a slut.”

You better watch your back side Janet S. Pretty soon LeftHisTurdBehindLostHisBrain will want to do you doggie style with his three inch dick. He likes to have sex wit his political adversaries.

86. cowpotpi3 spews:

Goldy, I think your correction of the media reports casting the guy as “Muslim American” when the story (as it usually is with life) is more complicated. However, you take a huge leap from this guy to make a pretty weak swipe at the “bad Christians.” If you’re talking about fairness in reporting/commentary then I think you’ve got a little work to do yourself!

87. Anonymous spews:

blepharochromidrosis forex trading blepharochromidrosis

88. IDGAF spews:

This WAR is for REAL!

Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country
is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let’s examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn’t the Muslim Religion peaceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).

(see http ://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world – German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way—their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.
The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing—by their own pronouncements—killing all of us “infidels.” I don’t blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don’t clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question – What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and
cannot help them.

They wi ll pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn’t matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don’t win, they are finished too, in that they can’t resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can’t stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by “imploding.” That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don’t comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don’t worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn’t because they are disloyal. It is because they just don’t recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our
cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police (Abu Grahb). These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the “humiliating” of some Muslim prisoners—not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but “humiliating” them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn’t show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned—totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims—not just in the United State, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being ‘arrogant.’ That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can’t!

If we don’t recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone—let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don’t win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn’t that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don’t have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the “peaceful Muslims”?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that include the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

If you would like to see who this fellow is go to this Air Force web sight and look him up.
http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C

89. For the Clueless spews:

ID(IOT)GAF – that article makes next to no sense.

Example:

We have been criticized for many years as being ‘arrogant.’ That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world!

We can’t!

That ought to be news to the go-it-alone, unilateralist neo-cons!

And next why don’t you try a smaller quote and a link to the article in full.

By the way, how’s that Able Danger bullsh*t going?

90. REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX] spews:

Don’t know if you have any muslim friends, but let me give you a personal anecdote: the first person to contact me on 9/11 to with expressions of horror, disgust, and sympathy was a Lebanese friend of mine.

Commentby Dr. E [.............................................Well, there you have it!! Muslims could not of had ANYTHING to do with 9/11!!!!! [Do you really teach students?] hehe, JCH]

91. John425 spews:

If I were an American Jew- I’d arm myself. Leftists are preparing another Krystal Nacht- just wait and see, Goldy.

Like Niemoller’s poem:
“First they came for the Jews…”