With just a few days to go until the election, Governor Christine Gregoire (D) holds onto her slight lead over challenger Dino Rossi (“G.O.P. Party”). This election is the rematch of the famous 2004 election that resulted in two ballot recounts and ended up in a six month legal challenge.
A new Washington Poll, a non-partisan, academic survey from the Washington Institute for the Study of Ethnicity and Race, finds Gregoire leading Rossi by 50% to 48%. The survey was conducted from 27-Oct to 31-Oct on a sample of 387 registered Washington voters; the margin of error is ±5.0%.
This poll yields results identical to the previous two poll, the first by SurveyUSA taken from 26-Oct to 27-Oct, that was 50% to 48% in Gregoire’s favor. And before that a Strategic Vision poll taken from 25-Oct to 26-Oct, had Gregoire up 49% to 47%—again a +2% edge over Rossi. One must go back ten polls to find Rossi in the lead—that’s all the way back to mid-September:
A combined analysis of the last three consecutive polls—which spans the range 25-Oct to 31-Oct—gives Gregoire 50.8% of the “votes” and Rossi, 49.2% of the “votes.” If the election had been held today, Gregoire would have had a 68.4% probability of winning.
Here is the distribution of votes generated by the analysis (i.e. this is the distribution of possible election outcomes in terms of the percentage of votes for each candidate):
The poll also finds Sen. Barack Obama leading Sen. John McCain in Washington state 51% to 39%. The +12% margin is narrower than the +17% (56% to 39%) Obama lead found in the SurveyUSA poll, but it matches the +12% (54% to 42%) lead over McCain found in the Strategic Vision poll.
(Cross posted at Hominid Views)
Looks like the people who voted for Gregoire last time will again, and ditto Rossi. In other words, the $20 million spent on this race changed maybe 20 votes. Exactly what I expected to happen.
From your lips to God’s ears, Darryl.
I will be phone banking tomorrow.
Good thing Gregoire is back in the lead. I was beginning to get worried that the unions would lose their benefactor, that the tribes wouldn’t have stooge, and the rest of us would get to keep our money.
Crisis averted.
I’ll be canvassing in the mornings and calling in the evenings through Monday, then keep an eye out all day Tuesday to keep people like “Janet S” from pulling any stunts at the polls.
And I’m just one of hundreds, perhaps thousands.
No let-up, no rest. To the bitter end, friends. They wanted a war, and we’re giving it to them.
Yes, working up to the last minute. Fortunately, with mail in voting, Janets attempts should be muted.
Hah! By all means, make sure I don’t get out of line! I might attempt to exercise my right to freedom of speech! Or my right to free assembly!
Of course, neither of these will prevent the true of heart to stuff the ballot boxes, and find all sorts of “lost” ballots. King County will be the last to report, and will miraculously come up with just the number of votes needed. Thank God Christine will stay in power!
Oh, wait, you all don’t really believe in God.
janet
Thank you for expressing yourself. People like you, blind to both reality and history, ensure that your party is headed for the history books. Keep posting. We like to see how inadequate our opposition is.
Proud Lefty: I hope you have budgeted the cash you will need for the the coming increase in taxes, both nationally and at the state level. Of course, that means you are actually a fully functioning member of society who earns money and files a tax return.
But, then, I guess it will all be okay. Because with Obama, you won’t have to worry about your mortgage, or your gas. It will all be taken care of for you!
Janet S: You do, of course, have a constitutional right to sound uninformed, shrill and mean spirited. Is this the kind of behavior that your god will reward you for?
Darryl: I appreciate your updates on the state polls, but I’m not understanding why your “combined analysis” is methodologically meaningful, particularly when addressing a volatile race. Perhaps you could attach a paragraph to each poll analysis that explains the rationale for your approach.
Wow, Mr. Idealistic. I am justifiably rebuked!
And your post makes you sound so smart!
I hope you have scaled back your standard of living, as well. With Obama and Gregoire, you will be paying huge amounts in new taxes. Unless, of course, you are unemployed. Then the gravy train starts.
But that is oh so mean spirited!
Mr. Idealistic,
An FAQ that describes the general analytical approach can be found here.
But, basically, these three polls were taken in the same week (seven day period). I’m not convinced that there is much volatility at this point, and the fact that all three polls gave +2% leads to Gregore, and the raw percentages were nearly identical, confirms (or…really, helped form) my opinion.
But, that said, the results are what would happen NOW. I am not predicting what will happen on Tuesday.
@6:
Janet, I’m a regular churchgoer. I suspect I go more, and give more, than you. In fact, this summer I chaperoned a group of teenagers that included my daughter. We tore down one house to the studs and rebuilt the upstairs interior on another in New Orleans.
See, we believe in cleaning up messes. Even the ones that your bunch make.
You don’t own Christianity. No more than you own civil behavior, or have a corner on the market regarding the future.
But you sure seem to have a lock on bankrupt ideas, the smell of flop sweat and desperation. Potty mouth accusations, too, given the compatriots you hang with.
So you keep up the postings. All day Monday and Tuesday too.
The rest of us here will be busy burying the Republican Party.
Pal guy:
I am sure you go to church more than me. Good work in New Orleans. Those Democrats down there left a total mess, between the corrupt govt contracts to build the levies, and the failure of evacuating the locals, which were both the responsibility of the Dems. Thank God Bobby Jindal is now in charge. (Sorry! Not implying any church going activity!)
Like I said before, you will need to scale back how you live in order to pay for all of Obama’s plans. The rich are now earning $70,000 per year. And in order to compensate for Gregoire’s huge budget shortfall of $3 billion, we will all be paying lots. Maybe we should just pray.
Hope none of this had obscenities! Those are so disgusting! They never appear on left wing sites! Oh, wait. The Stranger had a big story about those &^%&* homes with @##%$ yard signs. But that post has been taken down! Thank God!
The real story is, why in the world is Rossi so close at this point? He has done NOTHING for five-plus years but run for governor. I still can’t believe the Rep, er, GOP couldn’t come up with anybody better. It was a pure accident the whole thing was so close last time. You heard it here first – it will not be close. 52 to 48, at least.
Wow Janet. You’re sounding a bit desperate. All those various strains of right wing talk radio paranoia are blending together and through your blog comments tonight.
Well for these occasions double-scotches straight up are made. Make sure you pick a designated driver. You wouldn’t want to end up like Jane Hague.
Janet,
you do realize that demographic shifts nationwide are making the Rep, er, GOP, er… National Front an increasingly regional party, with significant strength essentially only in the Old Confederacy, while Democrats are winning nearly everywhere? I mean, you do realize that, right? The GOP is essentially going to be able to win reliably only in poor, backward states with low median incomes, low education spending, and brutal histories of slavery, segregation, and racial violence.
I think I can hear them calling for you, Janet. Calling for you to come Home. Go! Go, Janet! Those are your People, your Tribe. They need you. Leave Washington! Your new Sweet Home is a shack in rural Alabama! Hey, at least they have a lot of far-right Christianist churches. You’ll even get to learn how to handle venomous snakes! (You’ve got the speaking in tongues down pat; nothing to learn, there.)
I do not know why anyone would want to post under the name of someone that committed real voter fraud.
Janet,
Well done. Keep up the good work. Others that share your views are reading…..
Does anyone remember how the Geheime Staatspolizei came into existence?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
The wingnuts seem to forget that we are finishing a seven year experiment in the closest thing to fascism we have ever seen in this country, and that I ever want to see. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your anger.
As for taxes, unlike Joe the lying moron, I will pay more under Obama, because I have been fortunate. I doubt Janet will. But I will do it happily so that I don’t just keep passing the costs on to my children and their children. That is irresponsible and immoral- a good start at summarizing our last eight years.
Here in WA we are enjoying an investment in quality of life, temporarily interrupted by the collapse of western economies brought on by wingnuts blindness and ideaology. That is not the change we need here in WA. The shady subprime loan seller will not run our state.
Off to finish pulling in protection from Repub attempts to suppress votes and ignore the law. Keep sprinting through Tuesday.
@3 Typical drivel from Janet Stupid. Why do you even care what happens in Washington? You live in California. But, to set the record straight, Gregoire’s agreement with the tribe saved Washington from a massive expansion of gambling. The relatively few millions of revenue dollars traded away to achieve this result more than likely would have been eaten up by the increased social costs of more gambling.
And where are the Republicans on this issue? They want casinos galore and slot machines in every convenience store! Gambling is a social ill that promotes increased crime, among other things, and costs the economy more than it raises for government in enhanced revenue — although it should be noted that Republican-sponsored gambling schemes put very little additional revenue in government coffers.
As in all things, people like Eyman tell outrageous lies about how much revenue their gambling initiatives would produce. Why would Republicans want government to get money they hope to put in their own pockets?
Janet Stupid, if you want Indians to stop supporting Democrats, then you Republicans need to stop hating them and kicking them around. That’s a pretty basic concept, Janet Stupid — one that even you should be able to get.
I won’t go over that history here; it isn’t necessary. Suffice to say that tribal donations to Gregoire’s campaign have nothing to do with gambling. They’re motivated by a long history of Republican bigotry, mistreatment (remember the commercial fishermen shooting at tribal fishers on the Columbia River back in the ’80s?), and Republican policies that hurt tribes economically and keep Indians down. In short, Indians aren’t as stupid as you are, they know who their friends and enemies are.
And, no doubt, they’re still reveling in the fact that Native American votes put Cantwell over the top in her 2,200-vote victory in 2000 that sent Washington’s Top Indian Hater, Slade Gorton, packing off into retirement.
Zapporo: I’m on your side, but let’s leave Hitler out of this. Comparing your opponents to the Nazis is a poor way of making your point.
Janet: No one is questioning your right to free speech or to vote as you please. But I should point out a couple things. First, as much as I would like to make 250 grand per year, that’s not going to happen any time soon. Therefore my taxes are not going to go up under Obama. Don’t know about Washington State, but if Rossi wins I don’t think I will see my taxes getting cut. Again, I don’t make enough money to qualify for the Republican cut-taxes-for-rich-people school of economics.
Second, and more important, you and your political party do not have a monopoly on religion or morality. For the last 30 years Republicans have been claiming to be morally superior to the rest of us because, basically, you are against abortion and don’t like gay people. You sit in your pews and smugly look down on everyone who doesn’t vote the way you do as degenerate. Unfortunately for you, the jig is up. There are plenty of religious people, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc, who understand that the teachings of their faith require economic justice and alternatives to violence as a way of solving disputes. They believe that all people deserve to be treated with respect regardless of race or sexual orientation. There are honest differences about when life begins, but there is a recognition that the number of abortions will be reduced when women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy have access to education and living wage jobs that will make keeping the baby a better option. Your party believes none of that, and yet claims to have exclusive rights to the Christian label. Finally, those days are coming to an end. The last eight years have shown us what happens when your ideas are put into practice. How are things going for you? And what have you done for others in obedience to the teachings of whatever tradition you belong to?
@6 Who’s ever kept you from running off at the mouth, blowing brainfarts out of your ass, or copulating with your redneck friends?
@8 Janet, you are a GOP poster child. You lie about everything. You get none of the facts straight. And you are a total idiot.
I’ll tell you what. If you don’t want your Obama tax cuts, send them back to the Treasury. The government needs the money.
You’ve spent your whole life standing on your head. You seem to feel that trailer trash like you should pay higher taxes so billionaires, who already have much lower tax rates than anyone else, can pay even less or nothing at all. Apparently this feeds some vicarious hope that you, too, will be a billionaire someday.
Not even in your dreams, Janet Stupid; they’re merely using you and all the other gullible fools like you. You really ought to consider doing something for yourself, for a change, because that’s all you’re ever going to get.
The people calling the shots on Republican policy will do nothing for you; they’re in this only for themselves. Someday, probably after it’s too late, you’ll realize that. The rest of us already have.
@21 – Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I lay no claim to comparison, I only pose the question, is this really the correct path forward for America? Are we repeating history in the worst possible manner?
How do you explain a sudden call by Barrack Obama to a police state in America?
What possible need do we have for a “citizen” police force that supercedes military authority?
Please explain.
@10 Don’t worry, Janet Stupid, your standard of living will be scaled back — but not by Democratic tax cuts for the middle class.
It’s already been considerably scaled back by the wealth-concentrating, wage-cutting, inflation-boosting initiatives of wingnut Whack-O-Nomics. But you’re not all the way there yet; the worst effects of Bush’s economic policies are still coming home to roost.
Hopefully, that silliness has run its course and we can now turn government over to grownups and begin undoing the damage.
@13 How much you go to church doesn’t mean a thing. What counts is what you do after you leave. There are people who spend half their lives praying and the other half spreading evil.
@14 “why in the world is Rossi so close at this point”
As I began explaining @1 the campaign hasn’t changed any votes. Minds are closed and stupidity is locked in. The same people who voted for Rossi in 2004 will again. His voters are people who know nothing about government, and want to know nothing.
If you try to explain that raising gas taxes doesn’t raise pump prices because those are set by supply and demand, and letting our roads rot merely puts more profits in oil company coffers, they close their ears.
If you try to explain that Gregoire’s spending increases were necessary to deal with population growth and a decade of deferred spending on education, transportation, law enforcement, and other needs, and were supported by a growing economy, they close their ears.
If you point out that Washington’s projected budget shortfall is a result of a contracting economy caused by the policies of the Bush administration, that every other state is in the same boat, and that Washington is in better fiscal shape than most other states, they close their ears.
If every cop and prosecutor in the state points out that Gregoire has given them a stronger hand against sexual predators, they close their ears.
If you remind the eastern Washington Republicans who rail against “socialism” and “Seattle liberals” how heavily their economy and communities are subsidized by urban taxpayers and ratepayers, they close their ears.
All they hear, and all they’ve ever heard, is Rossi banging noisily on a garbage can lid.
You can’t reach these people, so don’t even try. Just kick ’em in the nuts. That’ll get their attention. It won’t teach them anything, but it’ll tell them what you think of them.
@26 – Roger, based on your comments, it looks like you’ve got 100% of your time booked.
Maybe go 75/25% in the future and give the world a break?
@16 George, why do you assume Janet Stupid lives here? She’s in California. They must not have enough amusements down there to keep her occupied. That’s not surprising; California trailer park residents have only three things to do, fucking and watching TV and more fucking.
@24 “How do you explain a sudden call by Barrack Obama to a police state in America? What possible need do we have for a ‘citizen’ police force that supercedes military authority?”
Do you people actually believe that kind of shit? Seriously, I’m asking you honestly, is that what you believe?
If so, you are beyond gullible, you’re nuts.
Wow. I guess I got Roger stirred up!
All of you will be paying more in taxes, if you work. Obama can’t possibly pay for his programs by just taxing those earning over $250K.
Tom Foss – if you think that the tax increases will go toward the current deficit, you are living in a fantasy world. Your grandchildren will never see social security, and will have the worst govt health care system ever.
Roger – when the Dems (who are running this state) vote to eliminate the lottery, I’ll believe your pathetic crying over expansion of gambling by the tribes.
@28 Feel free to book as much of my time as you like, at my standard rates, but don’t expect credit; in the current economic climate you’ll have to pay in advance.
If you aren’t a paying customer, get out and stop taking up my time, because I don’t do charity work.
Now, if you don’t mind, I have to get back to saving America. I’m on a schedule.
Roger@30 –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
And your explanation would be?
@28 (continued) Zap, I’m able to book 100% of my time for saving America because I get paid for not working. Working makes no sense. People who work get paid very little and taxed very heavily. Rabbits who don’t work get special tax breaks, as you know. Well, I’m not stupid, the hairs on my ears can detect which way the wind is blowing, and I float on the tide. That’s right, I’m only a cork bobbing on the sea of Republican economic and tax policy. Some of this may change if we get a rational government after Tuesday, but for now I’m doing what Republicans encouraged me to do: Getting paid for not working, and using my time to save America from Republicans.
Janet Silly doesn’t reside in California to the best of my knowledge. She’s an eastsider who IIRC thinks the sun rises and sets on the Bellevue school district.
Imagine that! A right winger who supports public education even though it’s the public schools of her parochial neck of the woods. Better than no support I guess.
I think Rog you’re confusing Janet with Christmasghost. Been to her blog lately? A huge stream of batshit insane paranoia about Obama.
@31 “All of you will be paying more in taxes, if you work. Obama can’t possibly pay for his programs by just taxing those earning over $250K.”
That’s a good point, Janet. Numbers don’t lie. Obama will have to break some of his promises and scale back others. Whereas McCain will forge ahead with giving corporations and the rich another $300 billion of tax cuts, and make the rest of us pay for it.
@ 24
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Yes. At present, the most obvious and glaring case of this would be those who cling to an economic philosophy that has been utterly discredited by recent events. When will you learn?
How do you explain a sudden call by Barrack Obama to a police state in America?
There is no sudden call to a police state in America. There is only you wingnuts going berserk, which isn’t all that unusual.
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was the first to call for a “civilian national security force,” and explained rather well what that means. Sen. Obama is calling for the same basic idea.
The only real question is, why are you wingnuts having a Kanipchen now, but didn’t have one when Robert Gates talked about this?
Good thing our property taxes only went up 1%.
Jesus you tards are fucking stupid especially
Foss thinking the financial meltdown is the
fault of the Republicans. What are you, retarded?
33 – More right wing paranoia. By January, the black helicopters and the militia training will start all over again.
How sad, pathetic and predictable is the right wing mind.
thinking the financial meltdown is the
fault of the Republicans
Conservatives say the free market can do no wrong. The free market is self correcting. Well we tried the free market like the conservative Republicans said we should and now the taxpayer is bailing it out.
And Hank Paulson is what? And Bush the chimp who signed the bailout bill is what?
Does it begin with and “S” or a “C”?
Problem with Obamas’ plan to tax those who make
over 250k is that under democrat policies there
wont be nearly as many making that kind of money. Capital gains takes all the “fun” out
of capitalism. Don’t forget, the messiah will
take away your home exemption on the capital
gains. Good luck idiots.
@31 I’m not a lottery fan, Janet, but it’s low key compared to the casino gambling and slots that Republicans want.
According to your logic, people who think gambling is bad should vote for the party that wants expanded gambling because the other party hasn’t abolished the state lottery?
I suspect your real position on this is that the state lottery is bad because it competes with private gambling and the money goes for public purposes instead of into private pockets.
YLB You have always been an idiot so I dont
expect much from you. Kind of like your hippie
parents.
I got to hand it to Zapporo. He came here after a long absence to gloat over a right wing victory or upset and he’s still holding out unlike most of our resident trolls.
Ahhh. A sweet repeat of the election contest debacle is in store for this Tuesday. It’s going to be sooooo good.
Farcical @37, 39 –
The video doesn’t lie.
Unfortunately for your point of view and perhaps for the future of this nation, Barrack Obama’s stated description and vision for a civilian police state in this country doesn’t even come close to the multi-disciplinary response teams Robert Gates described for future military forces.
Thanks for playing, try again.
@33 Explanation for what? Don’t expect me to click on a video link. My POTS line and computer can’t handle video. Until you tell me what you’re talking about you’ll get no reply from me.
@35 You’re right. I confused Janet Stupid with Xmas Vapor. In my defense, they’re hard to tell apart. Either of them can stand in for the other.
obams kills our coal industry plus our nation under the name of Socialism.
http://media.newsbusters.org/s.....bama-tells -sf-chronicle-he-will-bankrupt-coal-industry
@38 It’s pretty damned obvious whose fault it is, and only a lying wingnut in love with his own ego would attempt to claim otherwise.
@48 BOO! The socialists are coming! The socialists are coming!
43 – Hah! My dad was a staunch Republican and my mom pretty much leans that way.
You don’t know jack shit except how to spew hate.
Dipshit @ 45
I’m surprised I have to even look this stuff up for you:
Nothing “paramilitary.” No “armed civilians.” No “gestapo.” Sen. Obama is backing an idea first floated by Robert Gates.
There’s a reason that we call you guys “wingnuts.” You have active imaginations that are completely dissociated from reality.
Gee I hope the coal industry is bankrupted. Maybe kids growing up on the East Coast won’t suffer so much asthma or ingest so much mercury. The ice caps will stop melting.
Let’s replace all those coal plants with wind, solar and enhanced geothermal.
Drill, baby, drill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.....mal_energy
@48 Obama supports cap-and-trade and opposes pollution. You, I infer, oppose cap-and-trade and like pollution.
I like Obama’s plan better than yours.
@48 (continued) Wingnut idiots, of course, know nothing about cost shifting. If you tried to explain it to them, you’d get a blank stare.
For example, when Republican politicians pursue a policy of allowing coal-fired generating plants to operate with a minimum of costly pollution controls, the dirtier air increases health problems in surrounding communities.
But the power companies don’t have to pay these increased health costs. They are borne by the victims of dirty air, or their insurance companies, or in many cases the taxpayers.
This is called cost-shifting.
Cap-and-trade doesn’t prevent cost shifting, and isn’t designed to. It does, however, help prevent health problems and increased health care costs in the first place by limiting the total amount of pollution. Companies then work out among themselves who puts how much of that pollution in the air by buying and selling pollution credits in a free market.
This creates an incentive for companies to install pollution controls and allows them to recover some of its costs by selling the unused portion of the permission they get from the government to put pollution in the air. The free makret in pollution credits tends to encourage use of the most cost-efficient pollution control technologies.
This isn’t a new idea. Both the pollution control technology and the cap-and-trade concept have been around for years. It’s been a win-win for both businesses and regulators, because businesses like cap-and-trade better than outright regulation.
But don’t expect wingnuts to understand something as pragmatic as limiting pollution to protect public health and prevent higher health care costs by giving industry incentives to install pollution controls. They don’t like it because it’s too hard to put it on a bumper sticker.
And, besides, the concept of not letting companies transfer costs of doing business to citizens, insurance companies, or taxpayers smacks too much of “socialism.”
@48 (continued) You just got your ass kicked again, John. As always, thanks for playing.
Functionally Illiterate @52 –
You have no quote to show that Obama supports Gates’ proposals, only inferences.
The salient quote straight from Barrack Obama to your ears is this –
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” he said Wednesday. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”
We spend $500 BILLION on the military each and every year.
Where are we going to find $500 BILLION each and every year for Obama’s Civilian Police State, er….”National Security Force”?
For what purpose? Show us an Obama quote from a reliable source in that regard? By all means.
@52 Yeah, I completely fail to see how doing Peace Corps type stuff alongside our troop interventions in foreign countries qualifies as a domestic police state here in the USA.
“Dissociated from reality” doesn’t adequately describe the irrational idiocy of the right.
When Obama talked about bankrupting coal plant operators, he was talking about those who refuse to install pollution controls, and those companies should go bankrupt because the costs they impose on society far exceed the value of the electricity they produce.
But the truth of the matter, of course, won’t stop wingnuts from taking Obama’s quote out of context and using it for what they hope is a good-sounding talking point.
@57 You have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.
@57 (continued) I’ll promise you one thing, though. I’m not going to vote for the party that brought us Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, and illegal wiretapping — and lied about it. Whatever the solution to fascism is, voting for the fascist party isn’t it.
RR @ 60
No shit! I just gave him an Obama quote from a reliable source. He can read the entire interview here. That I have to supply a link shows how ill informed this bozo is.
Of course, he’s a wingnut, so his mind is made up never to be confused again by actual fact. Which pretty much explains why he hasn’t bothered to do even a little bit of research before exposing his ignorance to everyone here.
@54
Forget the coal it’s not that.
He couldn’t say this upfront like a man.
Shows how secretive he is, which ties directly into his lack of candor on his history,friends and associates.
When the truth finally get’s out it will be nice to know 49% Americans didn’t vote for him.
zapporo @ 57,
“You have no quote to show that Obama supports Gates’ proposals, only inferences.”
Actually, what you have is IGNORANCE. You watched a very brief clip in the middle of an Obama speech. You don’t research the arguments or positions that the clip refers to. You don’e even listen to the speech in its full context.
You have kept yourself in the dark about actual policy to which the speech refers–the information is plentiful and easily accessible. Instead, you proceed to MAKE SHIT UP! And the shit you make up is wildly fanciful, it bears no resemblance to reality.
This is pure, unadulterated ignorance. And you are fundamentally engaging in dishonesty.
@everything above, and @12:25 PST:
Will you people please fix your clocks?!
Deluded @62 – pffft. Yeah, my six year subscription to Federal Times is your point of reference for “informed”?
What are you arguing about amongst yourselves?
Obama said exactly what I quoted.
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=211203&widget=1
The interview you provided doesn’t even touch on what Obama emphatically stated in Colorado.
Either Obama in the heat of the moment pulls things out of nether regions or we have good reason to be very fearful.
Which is it?
In Denial @64 –
Yes, by all means give us the full context for his statement on a Civilian Defense force that would have funding equivalent to our present-day military.
Still waiting for anyone with courage to bring that full explanation forth.
You can moonbat it around amongst yourselves until the cows come home, you just can’t seem to honestly answer the question.
Another one thrown under the truck.
“Obama said Saturday he did not know his aunt was living in the United States illegally and believes that laws covering the situation should be followed.”
Lies, He knew it’s not like he has many family members.
The free market did not cause the financial problems we are now in. The Government caused the upset by removing signals that would have indicated different actions by banks:
(in no particular order)
1. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac CEO’s bought the approval of the Congress to get way deep into subprime mortages. This provided a buyer for all the garbage that was being written. Those writing the mortgages had no risk, so no incentive to care if they were paid off.
2. ACORN and other activist groups pressured banks to lend money to people who had no chance of paying back the loans.
3. Congress passed laws that required paper be rated by a small group of rating agencies. This limited competition, and signaled to them that they just needed to get fees for ratings. The better the rating, the more reliable the fee payments.
4. Congress created a bailout package that nationalized several institutions. So, who is surprised that everyone now wants their bailout?
No, none of this happened without the consent of Bush. But he knew he had no vote – Reid and Pelosi would twist arms and make payoffs to enough congressmen to ensure a veto override.
But it is easier to say the free market failed. What you are really saying is that we need to become a dictatorship and give up all our freedoms. We are just not capable of making decisions for ourselves. Vote Obama.
@ 67
The full context has been provided to you twice in this thread. Yet, as I predicted, you’ve steadfastly refused to allow the facts to confuse your foregone conclusions.
I got a kick out of this guy who just jumped off the fence to support Obama:
http://frobnosticate.com/?p=1156
Yeah, he’s talking about people like Zapporo.
Janet @ 69
Those talking points have been debunked so many times, I’m surprised you keep regurgitating them. This wingnut aversion to reality is really quite amazing.
I’m particularly amused by the whole Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae/CRA/ACORN meme. No one who has attempted to make those arguments has ever produced any data in support of their arguments. The reason is simple: the data disprove the arguments. Banks under CRA, for example, had healthier loan portfolios than the lending institutions that led the subprime frenzy.
Moreover, the time-lines don’t fit. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn’t even start buying subprime loans until the frenzy was well under way. The increase in loan defaults that led to the present crisis involved loans that originated before Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac even got into the picture.
Read this, Janet. Become informed, for a change.
There is one, and only one, reasonable conclusion regarding the current economic crisis: it is an abject failure of Republican philosophy. Yours is a philosophy that has, quite literally, become bankrupt.
The lies of Janet Silly:
1. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac CEO’s bought the approval of the Congress to get way deep into subprime mortages.
Lie.. Fannie and Freddie merely got into sub-primes to stay even with their competition, the investment banks. They resisted regulation that would only apply to them and not to their competitors.
This provided a buyer for all the garbage that was being written. Those writing the mortgages had no risk, so no incentive to care if they were paid off.
It didn’t (another lie) but that begs the question: why was the garbage being written in the first place? I’ll tell you: a greed-fueled feeding frenzy and lack of caring by the lazy REPUBLICAN boosters of laissez-faire dogma.
2. ACORN and other activist groups pressured banks to lend money to people who had no chance of paying back the loans.
Lie. The record of CRA regulated lending is actually pretty good. Most of the subprime loans were made to people in suburbs and fast-growth areas like greater Las Vegas. Not areas where ACORN is particularly active.
3. Congress passed laws that required paper be rated by a small group of rating agencies. This limited competition, and signaled to them that they just needed to get fees for ratings. The better the rating, the more reliable the fee payments.
Provide a link otherwise I just see another example of the “free market” at work here.
4. Congress created a bailout package that nationalized several institutions. So, who is surprised that everyone now wants their bailout?
And it was highly supported by your party and signed by the monkey you voted for twice. Why couldn’t the free market just take its course? Because you’re all a bunch of hypocrites. When the chips are down you abandon your vaunted principles in a flat second.
@63 Perhaps this will come as a surprise to you (being one who is news-illiterate):
“The truth is that neither Barack Obama nor John McCain addressed these issues candidly. Oh yes, they had proposals, but most aimed (not surprisingly) at winning votes and not clarifying choices. Although both support cap and trade, for example, neither forcefully pointed out that to succeed these plans would have to impose higher energy prices.”
(Quoted from Newsweek under fair use.)
Roger Rabbit Commentary: In other words, idiot, there is no difference between Obama and McCain on cap-and-trade.
Reid and Pelosi would twist arms and make payoffs to enough congressmen to ensure a veto override.
LMAO!!! I can recall maybe one override in this last Congress.
Are REPUBLICANS really so amenable to arm-twisting? What happened to their principles?
I’ll tell you: it was all hot air. After Cunningham, Abramoff, DeLay, Ney, Dolittle and the rest it was patently obvious it was all a smokescreen to enable rich donors to loot the country and have the not so rich pick up the tab.
@68 Comment #71 applies to you, as well. If you ever bothered to look up anything before putting your ignorance on public display, you would know that Obama has a very large extended family in Kenya, most of whom he’s never met.
Great Mother Rabbit Spirit–I implore You!–save us from any more government of rednecks, by rednecks, or for rednecks.
These wingnuts seem to think they can make their talking points come true simply by the act of making them up.
Here’s a good website for you Janet:
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/
zapporo,
“Yes, by all means give us the full context for his statement on a Civilian Defense force that would have funding equivalent to our present-day military.”
Hate to break this to ya, Squirt, but Obama did not discuss a “Civilian Defense force.”
Ignorance is bliss for ya, huh, Wingding?
Wow, I got a real education on just how out of touch with reality the wingnuts are by just reading this thread.
And if you really believe the Gov’t caused the financial meltdown, you have become seriously delusional and fact-impaired.
Although if you wish to consider the claim that Phil Gramm deserves much of the blame, and he was an elected official and a US senator to boot, I consider that a legitmate argument for blaming people in government for contributing to the collapse.
Why do the wingnuts just call people names and cite whacked out websites? Do you know anything about peer reviewed research?
zapporo,
“Still waiting for anyone with courage to bring that full explanation forth.”
Awww…you are so precious in your dishonest Wingnuttery!
You are the one who took a fragment of Obama’s speech and made the wack-o statement:
Almost everyone reading the comment threads knows what Obama is referring to—we’ve either heard the entire speech or we actually used the intertubes to read a fuller description of the policy. (Yeah…we’re radical, looking up information and all that.)
It is only dishonest wackjob Wingdings like you who ignore facts and simply fill in the details with whatever conspiracy-theory bullshit fills your head at the time.
One positive thing I can say about you, Squirt…you’re always good for a laugh!
@80 – I gave you the full unedited unadultered Obama quote. I gave you not one but two videos of excerpts of his speech in Colorado.
So far neither you nor any of the other HA minions has been able to explain his cryptic statements at that rally.
@82 – Quit stalling. You just get slimier and slimier and more defensive when a reasonable question is asked.
You have yet to provide a reasonable response that clarifies Obama’s cryptic Orwellian comments.
Where’s the Beef Wendy?
zapporo,
“You have yet to provide a reasonable response that clarifies Obama’s cryptic Orwellian comments.”
Ummm…The burden is on you, as the person making bizarre statements about “police states” to demonstrate how Obama words imply any such thing.
Obama’s positions and proposed programs are amply described in a lengthy document (Blueprint for Change–Barack Obama’s Plan For America). Your naive attempts at divining some malicious evil program by taking a snippet of an Obama’s speech—and a speech that is cribbed right out of his Blueprint—is quite amusing. After all, it’s idiots like you making-up “black helicopter” type conspiracies that feed into the general negative impression of you Wingnuts.
Really, read the plan! Willful ignorance won’t win you any points…anywhere.
If the poll averages only have Gregoire ahead by 1.6% at this time, then I would think that Rossi would have a slight edge in reality. Gregoire was ahead by more than five points at this point in 2004, but the race ended up being closer than 0.01%. Gregoire was ahead by five points in the last poll averages Darryl posted on August 14, 2008 before the primary, but ended up winning the primary by less than two points.
In any event, I doubt that anyone will win the Governor’s election by more than two points this time.
86. Darryl spews:
[various stuff]
11/02/2008 at 4:50 pm
Darryl — how did you get a posting date and time that is at least an hour in the future?
Zapped @ 83
I’ve provided you with both quotes and a link to an entire interview in which Sen. Obama explains exactly what he was talking about. Sticking your fingers in your ears does not constitute a reasonable rhetorical technique.
Richard @ 86,
That’s probably a bug in WordPress. I hadn’t logged out since Goldy reset the time to PST. I hand-edited the time to preserve ordering.
Oh I believe in God, Janet. Just not your Republican God..you know, the one who only blesses rich people and thinks poor people are slackers. The one who loves war. The one who loves hypocrites. Mine is more interested in the people who want to help the less fortunate, protect the environment,,you know, that “socialism” stuff.
So, you just sit here and type. Meanwhile, the rest of us have been out ringing doorbells and making phone calls. McCain has fewer than 2000 volunteers in the entire state of Washington. That is just a fraction of the volunteers in Thurston county alone.
Ad Homeniem Attacks stretching to infinity @85, 88 – Yeah, Thanks for nothing.
I finally found what I was looking for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df2p6867_pw
The exact term used was “Civilian National Security Force”.
Taking Obama’s comments at face value, this “Civilian National Security Force” would have staffing and funding equivalent to our existing military sources. —
“Just as powerful”
“Just as strong”
“Just as well funded”
Are we copacetic so far? Anything untrue in what was just stated? The tape is right there.
Did you watch SNL and Ben Affleck play a pompous ignorant loud-mouth buffoon last night?
Olbermann, such a HorsesASS!
@ 91
First of all, Darryl and I have said that you’re an idiot, because your argument sucks. If we’d said that you’re argument sucks because you’re an idiot, that would have been an ad hominem argument. As it is, Darryl and I have merely made an observation.
Is the observation justified? Absolutely. You’ve just posted a link to a video with absolutely no additional background information that would support your interpretation of what Sen. Obama was discussing. On the other hand, I’ve provided both a quote (@53) and a link (@62) that show, without a shadow of a doubt, that your interpretation of Sen. Obama’s remarks is pure fantasy.
So, yes. The observation that you are an idiot is justified.
By the way, you still haven’t answered my question. None of you wingnuts batted a single eyelash when Robert Gates talked about a “civilian national security force” last fall. So, why are your heads exploding about Sen. Obama’s reference to Robert Gates’ idea in the speech you’ve been quoting?
zapporo,
“Ad Homeniem Attacks stretching to infinity @85, 88 – Yeah, Thanks for nothing.”
Hey…my pleasure!
“Anything untrue in what was just stated?”
Nope…the only problem is with the way you have filled in the blanks.
Notice there was no suggestion of a “police state,” and no suggestion that the CNSF would even be “deployed” domestically.
Hence, your fanciful ideas of a “police state” are a fiction of your own making.
Read the plan, dumb shit. It fills in the details (that aren’t offered in speeches) with Obama’s own ideas—not your bullshit conspiracy theories.
Libtards @93,94 –
Look, I’ve read your interview and your quote without cites (meager at that) and your stitched together quotes. He only mentions Civilian Secury Force only once, in one sentence in the interview. That’s it. Period, end of story. Police state may be too much to infer, but the intent, scope and implementation of such a civilian National Security Force is far from clear, even with the sources you’ve provided.
If McCain wins on Tuesday, I will be entirely placated as we will have an honest, reach across the aisle, patriotic, non-sealed birth certificate American in the White House.
If Obama wins on Tuesday, as it seems likely, I will place an even more vigorous emphasis on volunteering in my community.
zapporo,
“Libtards”
Huh…this, from the same pouty little boy crying to his mommy about “Ad Homeniem Attacks” ? (Hey…why the caps, anyway? Have you elevated the phrase to a pseudo-proper noun or something?)
“Police state may be too much to infer, but the intent, scope and implementation of such a civilian National Security Force is far from clear, even with the sources you’ve provided.”
Yes…the “scope and implementation” IS far from clear in his speeches (duh!). But, there is sufficient information (and links) in the Roadmap. But here is a hint: the “force” being described is a series of diplomatic tools. Not a military or police force.
“If Obama wins on Tuesday, as it seems likely, I will place an even more vigorous emphasis on volunteering in my community.”
Great idea. You can serve at your local asylum by checking the patient’s closets and under their beds for terrorists.
I’m guessing it’d be a very short commute for you….
@ 95
I’ve read your interview and your quote
Reading requires more than simply looking at the words:
From the above, it’s clear that Sen. Obama is talking about something that:
a) Already exists;
b) Was first floated by Robert Gates; and
c) Is designed entirely to operate on foreign soil.
Police state may be too much to infer…
No shit.
but the intent, scope and implementation of such a civilian National Security Force is far from clear
What, exactly, is unclear enough about the above as to warrant the level of alarm you’re raising?
If Sen. Obama had provided any more information, you’d be jumping all over his ass for tipping off our enemies.
Marxisants @96, 97 –
If you prefer honorifics, I am more than happy to oblige. Look, I’ve been more than reasonable,
We’ve got Ayers wishing he had bombed more.
We’ve got Jerimiah Wright preaching black power, cursing America, and blaming 9-11 on us.
We’ve got an Aunt living as an illegal alien in this country making illegal campaign contributions.
We’ve got a wife who was apparently not proud of America until recently.
We’ve got Hillary Clinton that was thrown under the bus, which was pushed back and forth several times until the screaming stopped.
We’ve Anthony Rezko as a best friend raising money for his campaign.
We’ve got the LA Times with a tape of a toast to PLO operative Rashid Khalidi.
We’ve got more dirt than I can even spill in a single thread and we’ve got the most inexperienced candidate in the history of the U.S. Presidential elections, who proclaims that he will build a
“Civilian National Security Force”.
“Just as powerful”
“Just as strong”
“Just as well funded”
as our existing military with no further explanation.
And you have a problem with me asking for details? Like where that $500 Billion dollars a year is going to be spent? Linguists and Agronomists?
You need to be looking in the mirror to find the wingnuts.
@ 98
Congratulations. You’ve just proved that your claim to have read the interview I linked was a flat out lie. Funding is, in fact, discussed in that interview.
I think we can rightly conclude that your off-topic mud-slinging is only intended to hide the fact that you lied about reading the interview–as if you really do care about whether or not Sen. Clinton has been thrown under a bus.
Nevertheless, I did ask exactly what level of detail would satisfy you. You haven’t answered that question, and I won’t hold my breath waiting for you to do so.
By the way, let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that all of the crap you allege is as relevant as you claim. Doesn’t exactly speak all that well about your candidate given the fact that McCain is losing to someone who has all that baggage, does it?
zapporo,
“I’ve been more than reasonable”
Ohhh…yeah…now you’ve convinced me. I guess I won’t vote for Bill Ayers, Jerimiah Wright, Auntie Obama, Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Anthony Rezko, or Rashid Khalidi.
(*Rolls eyes*)
“And you have a problem with me asking for details?”
I have no problems with you asking questions. The problem is, as I see was not the questions. It was your batshit crazy suggestions that “Barrack Obama [called for] a police state in America,” which requires huge leaps of imagination from the tiny fragment of Obama’s speech you saw.
Ask questions all you want—and maybe you can take a stab as trying to research an answer before putting your lunacy on full display here. The problem is, as I see it, you seem unwilling to actually undertake the (fairly elementary) research necessary to find and understand the answer.
@99 – pfft. No. Lying would be the Liberal modus operandi.
Of course I read the article.
Let’s recap –
He wants throw out Don’t Ask Don’t Tell
He hints at reducing weapons purchases
He indicates corporate tax rates aren’t going anywhere but up
He hints at getting out of Iraq quickly, to save money.
He initially isn’t ready to decrease or increase the Air Force or Navy, but later talks about refraining from cutting both in any “significant” manner.
You can parse that interview a thousand different ways and it still says nothing about the scope, extent, and method of securing funding, for his Civilian Defense Force.
Face facts Joe, this was a military interview that only in a single sentence touches upon what he hinted at in Colorado. Go to his web site and National Defense isn’t even one of his issues.
Color me thoroughly underwhelmed.
And by the way, John McCain is the centrist, mainstream democrat in this election that you are throwing under the bus. Just remember that on Nov. 5.
Remember at the end of the day, Obama has
done NOTHING except hide all his true intentions. WOW. Tards are entertaining.
@100 – Do please get a grip.
If you had a concise, clearly defined answer as to what a Civilian National Security Force that is just as strong, just as powerful, just as well-funded as our military, rather than some vague references, we would have seen that 50 posts ago, rather than “batshit this” and “local asylum that” from the peanut gallery.
It’s not in the article.
It’s not fully laid out in any referenced materials provided so far.
And judging by his website, national defense apparently isn’t even a priority for Barrack Obama.
I’m sure glad I didn’t ask why Obama flew to Hawaii to have his birth certificate sealed. The hateful posts would have been deafening.
@ 101
Of course I read the article.
You looked at the words.
Face facts Joe
You mean the facts that I’ve cited above, which you have subsequently completely disregarded as you’ve kept moving your rhetorical goal-posts?
You mean the facts that expose the incoherence in your questions, like simultaneously complaining about a lack of detail, yet arriving at a $500 billion dollar price tag for this thing that you claim to not understand?
this was a military interview that only in a single sentence touches upon what he hinted at in Colorado.
Wrong. The entire text that I quoted @ 95 addresses what Sen. Obama means by “civilian national security force.” That’s three paragraphs of explanation.
Face facts, indeed!
And by the way, John McCain is the centrist, mainstream democrat in this election that you are throwing under the bus.
Just once–just once–I’d love to see one of you clowns try to support a claim like that without begging the question.
@ 103
It’s not fully laid out in any referenced materials provided so far.
I have asked, and you haven’t answered, exactly what about the text I quoted at 95 doesn’t provide sufficient detail? What level of detail do you require before you consider Sen. Obama’s idea to have been “fully laid out”?
Your objection is more vague than the information that’s been provided.
zapporo,
“You can parse that interview a thousand different ways and it still says nothing about the scope, extent, and method of securing funding, for his Civilian Defense Force.”
So? You have to go elsewhere for more details. Any idiot can find the details in about 5 minutes.
But, more to the point, none of the stuff you cite in 101 supports the “vision for a civilian police state in this country.” It seems you just pulled that out of your ass!
And now you’re just throwing up irrelevant bullshit as an excuse for your paranoid conspiracy theory.
I’m having a hard time deciding whether your primary problem is paranoia, delusion, or sociopathy!