Daniel Kirkdorffer over at On The Road to 2008 has gallantly taken on the task of examining (un)Sound Politic’s bizarre obsession with Governor Christine Gregoire’s death threat, and her comment about the level of discussion on talk radio. [“Gregoire’s Feb 3rd Death Threat Comments Revealed“]
Apparently at a loss for new ways to attack the Governor’s legitimacy, the (u)SP folks are reduced to simply attacking her personally. As a sense of normalcy continues to return to Washington politics, expect to see such thoughtful analyses as a biting critique of Gregoire’s hair style, or her daughters’ fashion sense. But for now they’re content to poke fun at the governor for following the WA State Patrol’s recommendations regarding her security.
What (u)SP wants you to believe is that the entire issue is bogus… that there never were any threats, and that Gregoire staged the whole controversy. But this strikes me as more than just an effort to tear down the Governor. The Snark seems so emotionally invested in this non-issue, I wonder if it’s also a rationalization intended to make him feel better about himself?
For I’m sure that he and his cohorts must understand that hateful rhetoric has consequences, and if at some point a less-than-stable individual irrationally acts on the anger the right-wing blogosphere and talk-radio have been plying him with, then… they all share a little responsibility.
The truth is, the level of discourse that has sometimes emanated from the right, has not only been dishonestly propagandistic, but downright disturbing. Their angry thesis is that Gregoire and the Democrats have “stolen” this election, and the exaggerated reaction in the comment threads sometimes borders on threats of violence. Passions and tensions are high, and to imagine that Gregoire and others have not personally received threats, is to lack an imagination at all.
I know. I have received threats myself.
Those who followed this website back during the heady days of the “Horse’s Ass Initiative” might remember a feature I called “Hate Mail Highlights”, in which I poked fun at some of my stupider hate mail by posting it alongside my actual, snide reply. What I didn’t discuss publicly was that along with the many anti-semitic slurs and accusations that I was a communist and a traitor, was the occasional threat of recourse.
Nobody has ever explicitly threatened to kill me.
But there have clearly been efforts to frighten me into shutting up, some subtle, some not. There was the person who emailed me a copy of my credit report… clearly implying that he could fuck with it. There was the person who repeatedly threatened to “out” me (as if I really care if anybody has an accurate impression of my sexual preference other than the person I prefer to have sex with.) And there was the emailer who thanked me for a TV interview I gave, saying that now that he knew my face, he’d “beat it to a bloody pulp” if he ever saw it in public. (He then courteously advised me which Seattle neighborhoods I should avoid.)
Last spring, Tim Eyman sent an email to his list accusing me of sending them viruses, which prompted a number of very angry emails, plus an onslaught of viruses in return. (Tip to e-vandals… I use a Mac.) Several said they reported me to federal and state authorities, and several others threatened to do so. Some threatened to sue me personally. But one individual saw fit to repeatedly call me at home, threatening to come right over and the beat the crap out of me. (Tip to angry phone callers… I have caller ID.)
As tensions rose after the November election, and my blog gained more visibility, my hate mail rose in both volume and, um… volume. One angry missive reminded me that things would all “even out in the end” for while liberals controlled the media, conservatives had “all the guns.” And after I posted a rather harsh critique of the Building Industry Association of Washington, an emailer responded “Builders know how to build houses… we also know how to tear them down.” He then helpfully appended my home address.
I discuss these threats reluctantly — if people think it gets to me, it might only encourage more. But I thought they raised an important point.
I’m just some guy with a strong opinion and a website. If I get personal threats, imagine what kind of crap is sent to the Governor who the right-wing blogs and talk radio have repeatedly accused of stealing this election?
Nobody is denying (u)SP their First Amendment right to hate-mongering. But I repeat, hateful rhetoric has consequences…. and they know it.
Methinks the Snark doest protest too much.
Isn’t it the Democrat union thugs who like to “intimidate”? Who was it in Milwaukee who slashed mini van tires the night before voting? [paid Kerry thugs!] And ANY look into black districts voting Democrat at 115% of registration is considered racist and hateful. Personally, any party lead by Robert “KKK” Byrd and Teddy “Oldsmobile” Kennedy really shouldn’t point fingers. JCH
Then lets investigate her conduct as Attorney General. Did she run that entire division ethically? Me thinks not. She has strategically placed and promoted HER peeps in positions of power in every office.
Do you honestly think she wants to be YOUR Gov? Come on, she is sucking up to Hillary.
the movie “black sheep” was one thing but the next goal is to replicate the YA YA SISTERHOOD.
CLINTON/GORE
CLINTON/GREGORE
Will this be revenge on Bill for Hillary?
Goldy, Goldy, Goldy—
Ummm, have you read some of hostile crap on your own blog about Bush, Rossi & others?????
Me thinks you ought to clean up yer own pig sty before obsessing with what Shark is doing.
I agree with chardonnay….the Lefty’s squeal about “personal attacks” whenever someone disagrees strongly with them. Yet they launch them out of the other corner of their mouth (ie jcricket, Don, bby et al).
Go ahead & examine to your hearts content.
Maybe someone needs to examine Goldy’s obsession with Shark???!!
Oh & Goldy–
You don’t think the Shark has had plenty of hatemail & threats??
The difference between you 2 is COURAGE!!
Shark moves forward courageously.
You and Gregoire want folks to feel sorry for you..victim mentality. Yet you are quick to applaud the Michael Moore, Move-on.org tactics because the support your personal philosophy.
This appeal for pity is pathetic. Reminds me of my hometown, Madison, Wisconsin….which adopted the nickname
“CITY OF THE PERPETUALLY OFFENDED” because of the outrageous conduct of a Leftist mayor Baumann who would hurl herself on the ground squealing about personal attacks and stuff like this.
Didn’t Karl Marx and his followers educate you Goldy on these types of tactics???
Sympathy & Pity—-great leadership qualities!!
Goldy..
I think you turned over a rock.
Heh–I told Sharkansky in an email not to worry about me calling him out, since the people who hate me are likely much better armed than the people who hate him. :)
I found it interesting that the comments studiously avoid the point that the hysteria Sharkansky’s whipped up about the death threats is factually false, but the threats are in fact real.
Nobody addressed that. Their response was to refer to other things other people did in other states, from other parties, in other decades. Are these people above admitting that Sharkansky is on the level of young partisans who slash tires? I think he’s more on the level of older, partisan Bush/Cheney regional campaign chairmen who are indicted for electoral fraud and intimidation–but that’s neither here nor there.
By not disputing that Sharkansky jumped the gun (again) and does so in probably his most demeaning and distortive fashion yet, and comparing it to other transgressions…is that an admission that the charges are true? If so, why can’t your other commenters just admit that?
I’m certainly not going to stand behind slashing tires for GOTV. Why are you standing behind people making reckless charges in order to disparage the sitting governor?
The guy who allegidly made the “threat” turned out to have made a “comment” to his Psyc Dr. with regards to abortion. His “comment” was: “How would she like it if I “___” her children?”
It was indirect at best, had nothing to do woth “Talk show Radio’s” (nervousness wording on her part). The Dr reported it like a good commie soldier. Therefore she over inflated to say the least the ENITIRE thing. We call this an islamopportunism. Methinks.
Goldy: Nobody is denying (u)SP their First Amendment right to hate-mongering. But I repeat, hateful rhetoric has consequences…. and they know it.
Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black?
I’ve seen plenty of hateful, over-the-top anti-Bush signs, bumperstickers and letters to the editor. I’ve read plenty of characterizations that put all Republicans, Christians & Conservatives into the hateful Far Right Wing.
Goldy, while I may disagree with you, you seem to have many valid things to day. I’d hope that you could take the high road and not stoop to name-calling Sharkansky, Dino & others. Say your piece, let us agree or disagree and maybe everyone can take something positive from it. Leave the name-calling to the trolls. (BTW, Shark & others are wrong for their “Fraudoire” comments, etc.).
This goes way beyond any rightwing radio talk stuff…although I think that’s part of it.
Gregiore was asked by the State Police not to release her movements. The police don’t do that without some reason.
The response from the right on this is nothing less than vicious and disgusting.
Does anyone know if Dino Saur Rossi is still receiving State Police protection. If so, does anyone know why?
Brenda @ 10
I heard/read in the MSM that Dino still has protection @ the suggestion of the WSP because of the “controversial nature of the election.”
Carla, while I don’t know if it sinks to the level of “vicious and disgusting,” I agree that it is an awfully shaky and questionable line of reasoning. However, one could reasonably believe that revote protesters at every public appearance don’t make CG too thrilled.
she NEVER revealed her schedule as AG either.
Dino has police protection, so does Gregoire, the egotistical wench, just has to “one up” everyone else.
Look at me, it’s all about me, I need protection more than he does. So typical of a spoiled “only child”.
Nobody is denying (u)SP their First Amendment right to hate-mongering. But I repeat, hateful rhetoric has consequences…. and they know it.
The post election attempts now to try to re-habilitate talk radio as reasoned discussion is hilarious. For weeks, there were constant unsupported rants accusing Gregoire of fraud, that she had “stolen” the election and everything under the sun.
All of these accusations against her were baseless lies. No where does Rossi’s attorneys even suggest such in any of their legal briefs.
Yet, it was put out there to whip everyone up.
Republican chair Chris Vance – or as he’s coming to be known, Chris Rants – has grossly exploited those voting problems, while the who-gives-a-damn-about-facts folks on conservative talk radio have built a mantra around it all.
(Komo)
Now they are crying “no we didn’t, what are you talking about.”
If there is any scandal to it, its that the WSP gave Rossi tax payer paid protection when he had lost the race, a privilege never afforded a loser to an election contest in Washington.
Fascinating, Goldy…
What (u)SP wants you to believe is that the entire issue is bogus… that there never were any threats, and that Gregoire staged the whole controversy.
Methinks the Snark doest protest too much]…
I disagree with the characterization that Shark is attempting to label it as bogus. I can’t speak for him, but my impression from reading the postings at SP is that her (CGs) response is bogus.
And why label him as such (the Snark)? I may not know your history with him, but I would surmise from that label that you must have had a playground altercation with him in grade school that you have never gotten over.
Virtually the only place I have seen the death threat mentioned is soundpolitics. If Gregoire is manufacturing it, she is doing a horrible job of exploiting it.
Goldy, there’s no sense in talking reason to these people. They have been whipping up controversy and bogus issues for decades. Only lately has the left dared to challenge them. Of couse, they all believe that the left has been in their faces with spiteful, hateful rhetoric for decades as well – that’s part of the fantasy they’ve been creating.
FYI, “the Snark” was coined by Jim King, a Republican who comments here, and a fellow Lewis Carroll fan. It seemed to both of us more fitting than his preferred moniker, “the Shark,” due to how snarky he can be.
I have only met Snark once, and it was rather cordial. But considering the tone he chooses to write in, he doesn’t deserve me going lightly on him, nor would I think he would ask for it.
Goldy,
Nobody said that you should “go easy” on him or anyone else — simply elevate the level of discourse. If what he says is worth the time and effort of your response, then it should rise above schoolyard name-calling.
chardonnay @ 12 , “the egotistical wench, just has to “one up” everyone else”, CG is yours, mine and our states GOVERNOR!!! Dino HipocRossi is yours, mine and our states BIGGEST LOSER IN HISTORY!!! Get over it…..he deserves nothing more than any other citizen.
Good liberals are indeed in the full fight back mode.
I have never heard more issults, accusations, and just cold hearted hate and contempt than in the right wing blogs. Disagree and you are the enemy in a battle with true believers.
Pent up? Their dark side? Or that morality play in their minds which means those who do not agree are the enemy, the devil, and must be treated with utter contmpt to bolster the right wing’s self image.
All the catchy mean names, the alluded racism and homophobia, and RANK sexism – these are the staple messages of the right wing and the now, very right wing R’ party.
Makes my skin crawl sometimes. Gregoire must have moments when she really wonders about her own safety and that of her family.
bby @ 19
Wake up. The fringes of both sides are equally wacko. Do you think that Eco-Terrorists who burn down UW labs are Republicans?
Do you think they are Democrats? Don’t be so assumptive- it is like the dead and felons voting for Rossi. Surprise, surprise.
um, lets see, eco terrorists are what????
environ”mental”ists, who contribute to Democrats campaigns.
CAO + Envir”mentals”‘s = Ron Sims
Follow the money trail.
Outrageous slander, chardonnay. It is no more true that environmentalists are eco-terrorists that it is that all who oppose a woman’s right to chose as doctor killers. Eco-terrorists are criminals. Environmentalists have helped clean our air and water.
chardonnay, you’re not helping. In fact, you just sink to the level of bby & the rest of the Kool-Aid Kids — albeit on the opposite side of the fence.
K,
slander no, pointing out what is true? YES?
check out
http://www.earthliberationfront.com
are they not envi-RON-mental-ists?
It is your left wing, greens do not vote republican because they are against taking away land owners property rights.
Who TOOK away property rights? Republicans? NO! RON SIMS DID.
K @ 23
“Eco-terrorists are criminals. Environmentalists have helped clean our air and water.”
You are absolutely right in pointing out the distinction, though your analysis of the outcome of environmentalists is suspect, at best…
bby @ 19
“I have never heard more issults, accusations, and just cold hearted hate and contempt than in the right wing blogs. Disagree and you are the enemy in a battle with true believers.”
Calm down. Difficulty with your own message could be the reason for the ‘contempt’ you cite…I prefer to get a fuller understanding of what the issue is. I myself have likely given grief to persons such as you over innocuous statements which may be fact; I am resolved to certify I get a fuller picture due to some egregiously horrid statements I have made to others like yourself…
What about Thrift Savings Plans aka TSP, all Federal Employees have them. Tommy Boy Daschel had one and now that he has been ousted by Thune, Daschel collects $121,000 per year.
Leave Patty girl and Maria Cantdowell in long enough and they will hopefully collect that much.
So, why is it OK for them to have a TSP, but it is WRONG for us average joes & janes that pay for it all, TO NOT have personal savings accounts? anybody? answers?
Once again I point out hypocracy.
mark @ 17
In the end, I agree.
Mark @ 20
I had no idea I had a twin with the same name :)
Mark, Mr. Cynical, and chardonnay have – in differing versions of eloquence – managed to divert discussion of the actual topic. This isn’t garden-variety juvenile name-calling. These are implicit – and sometimes explicit – threats of violence. Something’s a bit wrong when you evade this quite serious subject and use the comments to complain about someone calling “the Shark” “the Snark”.
Could you be any more irrelevant?
And chardonnay, I’m familiar with ELF-types. Those people and the people who support them didn’t vote democratic. They don’t vote, period.
I agree with Fraudoire I think we need to shut talk radio down now.
Goodbye to such hatemongers as the venomous Erin Hart(less)!
I read and hear more aberrant rantings from the “We’re Liberals, and we love everyone, except those that dare disagree with us” crowd. You libs have taken hate to a new level. I would say you are acting like mad dogs, but I like dogs.
The party of hatemongers MOOOveon.org, and people like Howard Dean, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, the Clintons, Baghdad Jim, Patty Murray, Barbara Boxer, Richard Byrd, Dean Logan, Ron Sims, and Christine Grego-ire just to name a few, should not be casting stones. You are probably all stoned, already. You sure sound like it. Save your brain cells, you might need them in the future to think with. Stop believing the leftists lies.
Socialism/Communism is not the answer, even when it is the main diet of the New Democratic Party.
Hey, where did my post go?
Are you blocking posts now?
Joshua H @ 30
“These are implicit – and sometimes explicit – threats of violence.”
I am assuming this “…Christine Gregoire’s death threat…” is the basis for your claim? How did it become “These[…]threats of violence?”
The subject is dealing with only one ‘implicit’ threat…and I take Goldy @ 16 at his word. What kind of a jerk would I be if I did not? Don’t answer that, please…
Joshua H,
How do you know they do not vote?
There is in fact a green party, they never get enough votes to be “relevant” but, one can assume they are political, and therfore vote. You imply that because their party never succeeds in any primary or election they GIVE UP? They would most likely go with the next best thing, or worst, depending your views.
CG tried to make a connection between one person talking to his therapist, and conservative talk radio. So much for her attitude toward the free speech rights of conservative radio. If there was actually a connection between the two, don’t you think that there would have been some kind of legal action by now? After all, this incident happened last month.
CG lied, and was caught in her lie, but liberals always lie. That is their modus operandi.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin is alive and well in Olympia.
Leftist are master hate mongers.
chardonnay @25
Sorry, but it is slander. Just because some child molesters are Boy Scouts or Catholics (groups I have also belonged to) does not mean all Boy Scouts and Catholics are child molesters. I am an environmentalist and I believe eco-terrorists should be jailed.
I am an environmentalist, and I can show you places where groundwater was polluted with toxic organics which are no longer there because of work the big bad government did. I personally managed projects which eliminated former health hazards.
Liberals survived 8 years of Reagan and will survive 8 years of Bush. Conservatives survived 8 years of Clinton and others before him.
“You used to be able to disagree with people and still be friends. Now you hear these talk shows, and everyone who believes differently from you is a moron and an idiot – both on the right and the left.” Clint Eastwood (certainly no left winger), NY Times Feb 13, 2005
To imply that to disagree with you is the same as advocating criminal acts speaks to your lack of afith in the strength of your ideas and our democracy. You should be ashamed.
Joshua H @ 30–
Nice try…I certainly did not divert the discussion.
My opinion is Gregoire is playing the pity & sympathy card by trying to imply “right-wingers” have forced her to be the “Governess in Hiding”. The truth is, she did the same thing as AG. She is a public servant IN NAME ONLY!!!
Pathetic examply of Leftist tactics.
K @ 36
Nice quote. And you might be surprised (or not) to learn that there are Republicans who care about the environment. My point was that bby seems to presume that “Republicans = all bad.”
I think that reasonable people can reasonably discuss all kinds of topics and, if need be, agree to reasonably disagree.
Mr. C,
Not sure she’s playing it THAT hardcore. I have yet to hear her utter “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” — at least not on any of the secret recordings we have. ;)
MARK – ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE THE— ATTACK THE CLINTONS GAME – WENT ON FOR YEARS AND COVERED MANY TOPICS – WAS ALL ACCIDENT?
NO PAID PR FIRMS, NO MEETINGS ON HOW TO GIVE THEM GRIEF AS POLITICAL TECHNIQUE? JUST SIMPLE OLD COUTRY BOY ACCIDENT THAT WENT ON FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.
RIGHT WING, YES. CONSPRIACY AS IN PLANNED, YES. VAST- WELL IMPEACHMENT FOR SEX IS BIG ENOUGH FOR ME.
OH, ALL YOU LIBERALS ARE SO……..HATEFUL ABOUT RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS…….
mark: “I think that reasonable people can reasonably discuss all kinds of topics and, if need be, agree to reasonably disagree”
Not according to Ron Sims, it is his way or no way, get a permit to cut down those blackberries. Dow, another one, his way or no way. they are bought and paid for with enviromoney.
The enviro’s go to far. You cannot take away the peoples right to own land and do with it what they will. nice words like stewardship tho, just like tollerance, smoke screen.
Most enviro studies have an agenda behind them, junkscience.com , therefore it is not right to go to the extremes we have seen here in WA.
Rain barrel legislation? what a frikin joke.
bby, you forgot your meds. Stop the ranting in caps.
If you want to make allegations, please include citations to non-partisan information that backs it up.
For one, it depends on your definition of “conspiracy.” If you mean that various people worked together to uncover the misdeeds of the co-Presidents (Hillary: “We are the President”), you are correct. If you mean that they did something illegal or unlawful, I’d like you to provide proof.
As for the impeachment, you should really listen less to the right- and left-wing blowhards. It had NOTHING… again, NOTHING to do with sex. He was impeached by the House for lying under oath and for obstruction of justice. He was not, however, removed from office because the Senate did not uphold those two Articles.
Unless I’m mistaken, Goldy is trying to make the point that when those who use their position of rhetorical loud voice, they should be aware that others might carry that rhetoric to another level.
It’s about accepting personal responsibility for all of our actions…no matter how innocent we are, is what we are doing likely to generate an ill reaction from others?
Free speech does not guarantee the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre. Extreme voices using their public position to yell fire is worse yet as the effects remain largely unseen, unaccounted for.
At least I think that’s what Goldy is trying to say…could be wrong though.
In the broader sense, I agree with Clint and Joshua. Solid conversation is long gone and what remains is more akin to mud wrestling. I like the silly irreverence that Goldy writes with, especially since the body of his text is solid. I used to visit SP but found the vitriol a bit much, his selectivity in fact presenting too overboard. The tone of the two places is different even though both places are firmly battling for their beliefs. Goldy presents the facts from his perspective but without the selectivity. Plus it’s more jovial in here. Goldy wins… ;0
Too bad to. There’s a lot of us that literally sit in the middle of the road that would enjoy a good conversation, even debate.
Nice legacy. This is the democrats super hero?
And what’s up with the Clinon library having a room IDENTICAL to the Oral office? Someone obsessed maybe? he needs to listen to michael moore and moveon.org.asm
G Davis @43
Yes, that was somewhat my point, though I certainly don’t mean to equate talk-radio with yelling fire in a crowded theater. Still, the clear intent of the (u)SP types is to stir up suspicion, fear and hatred of Democrats in general, and people like Ron Sims and Christine Gregoire in particular. For them to deny that they have an impact is downright silly. For them to deny that they have any moral responsibility for the consequences that may come from their words, is, well… irresponsible.
And I appreciate your kind words about my “silly irreverence”. I try to keep things fun.
I find it a little odd when people complain about my name calling or use of foul language as lowering the level of discourse here. It should be clear that I use profanity for comedic effect, emotional impact, and shock value. And while (u)SP does not use foul language, they still manage to be much more foul than I ever have.
People need to learn the difference between being serious and being solemn.
moral responsibility for the consequences ?
goldy
In typical fashion, you took the molehill and transformed it into some kind of mountain that doesn’t look much like the molehill. Responsibilty for what consequences, the ones that Gregoire dishonestly attributed to “talk show radio”? How can anybody have responsibility for something that never happened?
My interpretation of Shark’s outrage and “not letting the issue die” posts was that he was outraged over Gregoire implying that ths WSP was concerned about discussions on talk radio somehow having a connection to a threat. This was passed along in the press, so now the whole state has heard it. But it was not true! So she slandered talk radio. He’s got every right to highlight Gregoire’s behavior and lack of honesty on this issue and most readers of these blogs would be surprised if he did not. So where’s the problem here that merits you trying to use this to tear him down?
Zip… “slander talk radio”…? Ha! That’s impossible.
Tell me… why is it that Rossi is still getting WSP protection? Because of the passion and intensity surrounding this election controversy. And who is it that plays a major role in upping the level of this passion and intensity? Talk radio.
It is Snark who is making a mountain out of a molehill. He took one tiny comment that was tortured out of Gregoire during a 30 minute press conference, and tried to blow it into some kind of a conspiracy. It’s a load of crap, that’s what it is. She’s getting threats… possibly Rossi too.. and the WSP is doing their job trying to protect them. And you’re telling me that talk-radio has absolutely nothing to do with public perceptions?
Goldy
Nobody should disagree that they both should get WSP protection. But you’re telling me that talk radio must take moral responsibilty for what consequences? List out one consequence and then we’ll have a view of the mountain. The point of Sharkansky’s venting was that there are no threats attributed to talk radio.
What do you expect talk radio to do, go off the air until the contest trial is over? The PI reported on Gregoire’s “tiny comment”, should they take moral reponsibility for the consequences of passing it along?
Ever heard the nasty talk on the left side of talk radio? It’s just as far over the top as the right side. Should they take moral responsibility for the Prez having secret service protection? My point is that there is no end to the “moral responsibility” required of those who exercise free speech, following your logic.
Though wealth never trickles down, demagoguery does. Over a decade of Rush has taught any local ax-grinding, money-loving, wealth-hoarding neo-con to speak Rush-ist. It’s bad enough the 24-hour national news grind, but the trickle down of hate radio to the local political scene cast in the Rushist mold, using the same, oh, four arguments, is eye-rollingly dangerous. Yawn, another demagogue, casting anyone concerned for the environment and the poor as elitist, socialist and communist.
zip @ 49…I believe Goldy’s, Gregroire’s and certainly my use of the yelling fire in a crowded theatre are all metaphoric use of the language.
Perhaps there were no overt death threats over the radio waves. That’s the obtuse look at the issue.
The underlying issue is that there is a level of *hate* discourse all over this nation today that makes honest conversation, sincere disagreement impossible. Everything is taken to an extreme. And those that perpetuate that level of shrillness should, at least in my opinion, step back and examine their part in the problem.
Those less stable folks that we all know exist out there on all sides of the political debate will take that hate flaming literally. It’s why the KKK, Aryan Nation, Eco-terrorists exist. It’s why abortion clinics get bombed. It’s why workers enter workplaces and open fire. Unstable factions go to extremes you and I would never dream of.
So who’s feeding those unstables? Who’s whipping up the dizzying level of sidedness in virtually all conversation surrounding politics, religion, parenting, etc? Is it you and I on the street? Is it main stream media? Or is it the sensationalistic, irresponsible talk radio and much of the internet?
At some point, responsible individuals would look to themselves to accept their role in all the vitriol don’t you think? If we each took it upon ourselves to ratchet it down a notch and sincerely engage another in honest conversation, don’t you think the level of hype would back up a bit?
We as a nation can’t talk to each other any more…it’s sad. Honest disagreement, discourse is what makes this nation different than most others. It’s how we got to the point of inclusion rather than the current state of division.
John Carlson, Stefan Shark, Randy Rhodes may not have issued whatever death threats there were. But their shrillness has most certainly whipped the level of emotionalism surrounding today’s political, religious climate to new heights which just might tip some less stable folks right on over.
That’s the crux. Politics today is not a life and death issue and most certainly doesn’t warrant the level of hate some display toward any who disagree with them.
Zip – What do you expect talk radio to do, go off the air until the contest trial is over?
There are options between inciteful speech and going off the air. Right-wing talk radio could avoid calling her a thief, fraud, or accusing her of stealing the election without any evidence. Right-wing talk radio could stop calling feminists “Nazis”, branding liberals as hate-mongers or “America haters”. People like Ann Coulter need to stop saying “My only regret is that [McVeigh] didn’t blow up the NY Times building.” And please, just because some extreme left-wingers might use similar language doesn’t excuse the right-wingers (two wrongs not making a right and all that).
It’s that type of extreme rhetoric like that ruins public discourse and can often (as Goldy pointed out) lead the less mentally stable to do bad things.
I’m not arguing that talk-radio doesn’t have a “right” to say whatever they want (short of actually calling for violence), but they can’t feign ignorance or be “shocked” when someone takes them up on their “advice”.
JC @ 51
And please, just because some extreme left-wingers might use similar language doesn’t excuse the right-wingers
It isn’t just the extreme left-wingers. Have you not seen the signs and bumperstickers and shirts and websites and articles and protests since 2000? Or are you saying that all of those Dems from the “Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party” are all extreme left-wingers?
C’mon. If you say “stealing the election” in many parts of Seattle & the surrounding area, most people think of Bush 2000 protests, not Gregoire 2004. The amount of anti-GOP “hate speech” from seemingly reasonable Dems is disheartening.
Zip @ 49 wrote, “Ever heard the nasty talk on the left side of talk radio? It’s just as far over the top as the right side.”
Yes, and that’s why I’ve chosen not to waste my time listening to them either. We all have the ability to choose what we believe is appropriate behavior, and neither the rhetoric and hyperbole from the likes of Air America, or the likes of righty talk radio qualifies in my mind, so I choose not to listen to either.
I challenge you to do the same.
Daniel K @ 53
Haven’t listened to talk radio (except sports) since the mid 90’s. I realized back then that I was not getting an education from the talkies.
Blogs are a different matter, IMO. I don’t mean to insinuate that I am any more or less intelligent than anyone else who reads them, but I do get a better understanding of a number of issues from them. First and foremost, does the post make sense? Closely followed (and in some cases, intertwined with the first) by what spin is the writer putting on it? Is it entertaining and well written? Is there humor in it (humor has become different for the partisan extremes on both sides, I think)…
When I first started reading and participating in blogs via the comment threads, I was quite vitriolic towards those who seemed to be on the other side of the issue. Bias creeps in even when I watch for it, so at times I still find I need to step back and take a deep breath and crack my knuckles and do a proofread before I hit the Say it! button.
Having said that, I believe your take on the Shark is tinged (I am shocked, SHOCKED!…) with bias, just as the Shark has right-shifted his take on the death threat issue.
Hey, everyone has an agenda…except me :)
marks @ 54
While everyone is entitled to expressing themselves in whatever way they wish, there are ways that are more constructive than others. When all a person can do is insult another person, or defend a position only by saying “well the other side does it”, then we’re not advancing the discussion or looking for common ground.
The problem is that too many people have no interest in the common ground, it is all about “my way or the highway”. I could pick apart a Rossi news conference, twist words into some off the wall accusation, but what good is that? What kind of truth does that reveal? It would probably say more about me than it would say about my target.
Daniel K @ 55
I could pick apart a Rossi news conference, twist words into some off the wall accusation, but what good is that? What kind of truth does that reveal? It would probably say more about me than it would say about my target.
Truth is you attempt to do that to the Shark, in order to expose some sort of bias he harbors from his reports on the matter. I have no doubt about his rightward leanings, but to pick apart his reports on his blog puts you directly into the subject line of the italicized statement above.
I don’t doubt for a minute that you are doing what you think is right, and I hope I do not come off as condescending. I just think you are wrong to point at perceived injustice by performing the same injustice. And it is highly debatable that there is any justice in any of this…oh, I just ended my reason for belaboring the point (POOF!)…
Cyn @ 3
Hey Cynical, I hope someone did something nice for you on Valentine’s Day! :)
Cyn @ 4
You’re from Madison? Oh, that explains a lot. You can get stoned just by driving through that city.
chardonnay @ 7
So your idea of good citizenship is to keep quiet when someone says how would the governor like it “if I ____ her children” whereas you think a medical professional who reports it is “a good commie soldier”? I suspect you’ve been drinking something stronger than your namesake …
chardonnay @ 12
Next time, drive AROUND Madison!
liberals lie @ 31
And you, no doubt, think of yourself as the warm-and-fuzzy type.
liberals lie @ 32
If you don’t know how to use your computer, get someone to show you.
Mark @ 39
“And you might be surprised (or not) to learn that there are Republicans who care about the environment.”
Where?
chardonnay @ 42
No, you can’t do anything you want on your property. For example, you can’t store dynamite in your garage if it’s next to my house. More to the point, what upstream rural property owners do (such as fish) downstream, therefore is an appropriate subject for government regulation.
Don you forgot removing blackberries or other soil holding plant material from banks over you house… ;0
Don @ 64
I’m trying to figure out to what degree you’re serious about that question.