Woo-Hoo! It is another evening with some crazy fellows. I’ll try to live blog from the Montlake Alehouse.
5:07: Somehow I expect that tomorrows press will be all about Michele’s white outfit.
5:10: Rick Santorum blames Barack Obama for the economy?!? That’s simply precious.
5:10: Mitt makes a funny! (“Yes, Wolf, its my first name”.) Newt?
5:11 Newt puts limits on “innocent until proven guilty.” If we think you are a terrorist, it doesn’t apply.
5:12: Watch Mitt Romney throughout this debate. Some consultant once told him he needed to be a better listener. Now he makes a show of it, by which I mean, it looks very contrived.
5:17: Ron Paul, crazy as he is, schools Newt on the emergence of the police state.
5:19: Michele Bachmann, feeling her sound bite didn’t get enough headlines last time, rekindles the crazy “Obama outsourced the Justice Department to the ACLU” talking point. Still falls flat, I suspect.
5:21: Mitt agrees with Newt.
5:22: Wait. Rick Perry wants to “privatize the TSA”?!? Isn’t that exactly what we had on 9-11? You know, before George W. Bush enacted one of the largest expansions of the federal government by federalizing airport security?
5:23: My dinner has arrived, and I am having trouble eating the refried beans while Rick Santorum is speaking.
5:27: Cain, “I’m sorry Blitz, I meant ‘Wolf'” Wolf: “Thank you Cain”.
5:29: Huntsman sneaks in congressional term limits in a foreign policy debate.
5:30: Bachmann: “Pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism.” Where was she when George Bush was selling his Iraq war?
5:31: Oh my Gawd! Michele uses nuisance in discussing Pakistan. What happened to naive black and white issues and answers?
5:33: Here is a useful metric of how low Rick Perry has fallen: Michele Bachmann points out that his Pakistan “policy” is naive—and she is right!
5:36: Look at Mitt’s hair. It looks like a wig made of black fish line. What the fuck is up with that?
5:39: Huntsman is toast…there is, what looks to be, dandruff on his coat.
5:42: What the hell kind of pin is Newt wearing? Is that a Free Masons pin?
5:51: Cain: “If we pull out of Afghanistan too soon, Iran will help fill that power vacuum….” He should have just said, “9-9-9.”
5:53: Rick Perry is starting his fade-out phase of this debate.
5:56: Bachmann: Obama shuts down U.S. energy independence by stopping a pipeline with Canadian oil (being shipped to Louisiana for export). Right.
6:01: Mitt: “Obama has pursued an agenda of being friendly to our foes and being hostile to our friends.” I mean, yeah…he has certainly been courting Republicans at the expense of his base. Good point Mitt. Not bad for a member of a party trying to harm the U.S.
6:08: Perry has some super Super-committee rage! As only a Commander-in-Chief can have….
6:12: When Rick Santorum answers questions, he always looks like he wants to bite someone’s nose off of their face.
6:25: Rick Perry will shut down the borders within 12 months of “the inaugural.” Congress (and the Supreme Court) might have something to say about that.
6:27: Cain claims terrorists have snuck into the U.S. at the Mexican Border?!? Really? I missed that news.
6:30: Santorum: “trickle down.” Now there’s an UGLY picture.
6:31: Newt is gathering a few flakes, himself.
6:32: Michele’s lipstick is beginning to migrate to the rest of her face.
6:35: Even Mitt is showing a few dandruff flakes. Wait…why aren’t his flakes dyed black?
6:38: Or maybe it’s Santorum’s spittle on everyone else’s coat.
6:44: Wow…CNN allowed a genuine war criminal (David Addington) to ask a question!
6:46: Okay…Rick Perry is officially in babble mode now.
6:52: Mitt Romney just gave America an erection.
6:53: Why does Rick Perry refuse to wear an American flag?
6:54: Santorum is concerned about the spread of Socialism. Well, I suspect Socialism is concerned about the spread of Santorum.
6:59: Mercifully…it ends. It got a little hard to hear toward the end, as the “Occupy Montlake Alehouse” crowd showed up and started arguing about what they really stand for.
I thought this debate was substantively better than the CNBC foreign policy debate. Perhaps this means that the candidates just learned their talking points better.
CNN is trying to make a big deal about Newt’s answer on the “illegals” question. In fact, I think Newt is being savvy and more realistic than most Republicans on this issue.
Perry really is just G. Bush huffing paint fumes.
Bachmann ought to tell Bachmann that the “ACLU runs the CIA” and it is doing a fine job sharing intelligence with Pakistan.
You figure out which Bachmann tells which Bachmann what.
Huntsman wants of out of The ‘Stan. 10-15K troops in The ‘Stan goes after Mittens. TV cuts back to Mitten’s allows him to talk as long as he wants. Huntsman has to wave his arms to get a reply in. TV cuts back to Mittens. Gee, there’s not a pro Mittens bias here.
I was actually thinking that Rick Perry seems remarkably lucid so far tonight. Good for him (too little, too late).
I’m looking forward to seeing how Newt handles himself tonight. Paying more attention to Romney and Huntsman this time around as well. I feel the need for a contingency plan in the event that Newt fouls up as Cain, Bachmann and Perry have. I like Ron Paul for a number of reasons, but there’s just no way…
Way too much dye and Brill Cream.
The chicken hawk war mongers and their complete stupidity stands a good chance of killing Ron Paul before half time.
We’re fighting a war against radical islam? Really? Who defines what radical islam is?
Sorry Wolf, there’s nothing historic about this debate.
@4. Partyin’ Hard on 11/22/2011 at 5:40 pm,
I
don’twant to spoil it for you, the election for the GOP Presidential nomination in 2012 has already been held.Governor Mitt RomneyCare won 1% to 99%.
What’s that mean? No way you’d vote for the only Republican who knows anything about foreign policy? If the SOB was not such a mindless ideologue on everything else he’d be kicked out of the party.
Herman Cain looks terrified that he’s going to embarrass himself.
Ron Paul: Israel can take care of them selves. Cain’s going nuts.
@10 Partyin’ Hard
Herman Cain, your candidate?
Or Herman Cain the Art Project?
Perry: we need to go after Iran’s central bank and Obama wont do that.
“We’re fighting a war against radical islam?”
Been asleep for the last couple of decades eh?
Obama has avoided energy independence? I did not know this.
@14
We’re not fighting a war against radical islam. We are, however, fighting a wars against a few groups that are radical islamists. There a difference.
Did Santroum just call Africa a country?
Bachmann says Obama changed the course of history.
And look! Paul Wolfowitz, the neo-conserviative hack that testified before Congress that the Iraq War would pay for itself, and then became the former discredited president of the World Bank Group gets to ask a question.
Who next? Manuel Noriega?
Cain’s just babbling.
Ron Paul: aid to Africa is useless. I’m starting to agree with him on that one.
Romney’s attempt to blame automatic defense spending cuts on Obama would be hilarious if it wasn’t so dishonest.
@17
Did you catch Ed Meese at the beginning?
Ooo… It’s mad dog night for Mittens.
Romney is a Tour de Force tonight.
Babbling incoherently on purpose just to rub the audience’s nose in the fact that he’s got it in the bag.
@20,
Yes, but Meese is just a corporate shill you’d expect to see at a Republican event.
Wolfowitz takes it to a whole new level!
Newt thinks we have enough oil in America to collapse the world oil market. Got new for you Newt, we don’t. Not only that, but oil is a finite resource and you’d run us out of it.
Newt thinks we have enough indigenous oil to collapse world oil prices in a year. The problem with that is the U.S. consumes 20% of the world’s oil but has only 5% of the world’s oil reserves — and he forgot to ask anyone in the oil industry how long it takes to find oil, drill production wells, and build pipelines.
Uh-oh, Huntsman just hung himself — he suggested we can cut a penny or two from defense. That disqualifies him from being a Republican.
The Trust Deficit! I like it. Huntsman’s done good.
Boy, Perry sure is working hard to avoid saying he’d compromise with Democrats.
Perry’s BS on budgets is going to get us a “9-9-9” from Cain. That’s a triple shot people!
Rick Santorum seems to be saying he compromised on letting welfare recipients have child care and transportation (which they need to be able to work) because he had to.
Frothy Mix took 2 steps back there.
Frothy Mix needs to remain quiet if he wants a chance at having some time driving the Clown Car.
I don’t want to spoil it for you, the election for the GOP Presidential nomination in 2012 has already been held.
I’m not so sure about that anymore. Given how volatile this process has been up to this point, I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility to think that somebody (Huntsman?) could surge at exactly the right time and get a surprise win in Iowa and/or New Hampshire and go on to ride the wave for at least a while.
What’s that mean? No way you’d vote for the only Republican who knows anything about foreign policy? If the SOB was not such a mindless ideologue on everything else he’d be kicked out of the party.
As I’ve said before, I agree with just about all of Ron Paul’s positions – in theory. But if his views were carried out in their entirety, we’d be left without a federal government. I want less government, not no government.
His isolationism is another issue for me. Foreign policy mistakes were made in the Bush administration. No doubt. But it’s too late in the game to think that we can just seal ourselves in our own borders and hope that everyone will leave us alone. That may have been possible once upon a time, but we’ve made some serious enemies over the course of the last 50 to 100 years, and they’re not going to simply forget about us just because we’ve decided to forget about them.
Someone needs to tell Newt that people are rioting in the streets in Chile.
Ooo… Up next reducing illegal immigration that’s already at record low levels.
@32 Partyin’ Hard on 11/22/2011 at 6:13 pm
Hey champ! Are you aware you can check out science books from the public library for FREE?
Science is cool, because you learn how to prove/disprove theories.
The Dark Ages are over! You don’t just to sit there and believe in stuff!
To #12: I washed my hands of Herman Cain when I realized that I knew more about foreign policy than he does. I wouldn’t elect him to serve on city council at this point, much less President of the US.
Hey Exxon’s managed to turn tar sands into oil sands. That right up there with Jesus turning water to wine.
To #35: Thanks, slugger. I’ll make a point to study up on Ron Paul.
In a science book.
@36 Partyin’ Hard,
Washing one’s hands after a Cain encounter is a common reaction.
9-9-9!
Here comes Ron Paul with the legalize pot comment. Come on call on Paul.
Ron Paul: cancel the drug war. At least let sick people have pot.
Stop the presses! Ron Paul said something sensible! Alcohol is worse than marijuana! Arresting and imprisoning medical marijuana patients makes no sense!
High school immigration? WTF?
@42
Paul’s done alright tonight.
Frothy Mix declares Reagan’s Trickle Down fails.
:-o
Hey, it’s Huntsman’s turn!
Ron Paul: The kids can still get the drugs.
My youngest recently came clean with me about all the things he was doing behind my back in high school. He was pretty insistent that it was easier for him to get pot at that age than it was to get alcohol. If that’s really the case, what is the point of the “War on Drugs”? It seems like a lot of money being spent and a lot of lives being lost for pretty much nothing…
Newt: If you’ve been here for 25 years, worked and paid taxes, and have kids and grandkids, we won’t kick you out — if you belong to a church.
There he goes again — Newt again says you have to belong to a church or you don’t belong here!
Hey, it’s Huntsman’s fucking turn, Wolf.
Someone needs to tell Mittens that illegal immigration is at record low levels.
@47 Partyin’ Hard
You do remember the president who brought us the “War on Drugs“, don’t you? President Ronaldus Magnus.
Of course it is useless. Why don’t you turn the teevee off and ask yourself the question why the professed party of Freedom and no government regulation wants to regulate the uterus, regulate what you put in your body, and profile people for interrogation based upon their Race, National Origin or Religion.
It is all bull shit buddy, and if you’re a parent this bull shit will kill you and your children faster than the alternative.
Someone also needs to tell Mittens that there’s plenty of people right fucking here in America that can do the jobs that he wants to bring people in to do. We might need to help pay for a little schooling, but we have Americans that can do the work. Let’s focus on getting Americans back to work, please.
NEWS FLASH: Romney has secured the border as governor. Wonder if the residents in Texas were aware of that.
I’m waiting for someone to ask the candidates about Alabama’s anti-immigrant law.
Near as I can tell Mittens wants us to do what we’re already doing in regards to immigration. But, Obama’s doing it wrong.
@53,
It is less expensive to pepper spray our kids and ship in immigrants. One’s gotta come at these problems with a sharp pencil and an eye for detail. Now, shut up and get off my lawn!
Cain: If you don’t know a damn thing about Syria, talk about the economy.
Cain’s just babbling. They can have Cain babble, but they can’t have Huntsman give real answers?
@57
That seems to be the way we’re going.
Addington?
Will Darth Cheney come out in the end and crown Mittens?
Cue The Imperial March!
Hey, they actually called on Huntsman!
@62 Michael, Blitz er, uh, Wolfy got confused.
Huntsman: We had no definable interest in Libya.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....ckpit4.png
Ron Paul goes all Do unto others in foreign policy!
Ron, all good practicing Republican x-stans well know that Jeebus would have us nuke teh mooslims! It is in teh Constitution!
Listen to Mittens. Be STRONG. Live and let die!
@64
Lots of low sulfur light sweet crude isn’t a definable interest? I think he screwed the pooch on that one.
Romney: If we spend oodles on military power, no one will dare attack us!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....ontage.jpg
Frothy Mix is worried about the spread of socialism. He’s going to party like it’s 1949!
Look. New Rule.
Anytime any of the clowns start babbling about the threat from China, Huntsman gets 60 seconds for smack down.
@67
Japan used bicycles to invade the malay peninsula and from what I’ve hear the vietcong used bicycles as well. Clearly we need to get rid of bicycles in order to keep our country safe.
Mittens proves his dominance by throwing out (again!) the total infiltration of Latin America by Hezbollah BS.
@69
They really should go for that one.
Huntsman’s nailing it. The real problems are hear at home.
Personally, I think if they want leadership by example, they should vote for a rabbit who has no debts.
@73, To his credit Huntsman sounds more rational and often identifies a problem correctly. But in the end his solutions are the same old GWB and Republican BS that brought us here.
“6:53: Why does Rick Perry refuse to wear an American flag?”
Because he’s a Texican.
My Nieces think gloria______ has an oddly shaped head.
Throughout these debates I get the impression that most of the candidates think the Patriot Act supersedes the Constitution.
They puzzle me exceedingly. Ignorant or lying or both? Criminy!
@75
Yeah, at the end of the day he’s still a rethuglican.
Summary: Nothing much happened here, but let the record show that when you invite Meese, Wolfowitz and Addington to ask questions this debate will forever be remembered as
.
.
.
and as there were no brains to be found, they died of hunger.
….. FIN
Mitten’s seems steamed that he’s not the anointed one yet.
BREAKING NEWS — Oregon Governor Suspends Death Penalty
Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber, calling the death penalty “morally wrong,” tonight imposed a moratorium on executions and reprieved a double murderer scheduled to die on December 6.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_n.....s-reprieve
@82 Roger Rabbit on 11/22/2011 at 7:10 pm,
So, by Republican theories of law & order and FREE! markets, doesn’t that solve Washington’s crime problem?
It’s The Red Hour in Oregon!
An Afghan woman serving 12 years in prison for being raped will be let out of jail if she marries her attacker. If she doesn’t, her child by the rapist will stay in jail with her.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/22/.....?hpt=hp_c3
@83 Absolutely! According to Republican theories of law and order, criminals will now flock to Oregon, leaving Washington denuded of its criminal population.
Remember, it’s better to keep 11 million agricultural workers out than to let 1 Sandinista in!
If you haven’t already ordered your pepper spray t-shirt, you’re too late — they’re already sold out.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45403805
@87 Roger Rabbit,
Fascism! It’s good for business!
Looks like somebody’s expecting the Eurozone to collapse: “The Federal Reserve announced plans for a new round of stress test on US banks—including the six largest—to see if they could withstand a possible market shock, such as an escalation of the European debt crisis.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45405771
Meanwhile, one of India’s richest businessmen says the world is facing a crisis of confidence because a few people got too greedy.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45395818/
I’m not the only one who thinks stocks are the investment of choice: Cash-rich U.S. corporations are buying their own stocks at a rate of $2.1 billion a day.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45402485
And finally, rounding out tonight’s economic news, China’s economy (you know — the world’s next military superpower) somehow imploded when Michelle Bachmann wasn’t looking.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45410635
All this reminds me of So White and the Seven Dwarfs.
@84
You know, I think what’s going on in Afghanistan is horrible. But that’s just it, we’ve been there for a decade and it’s still going on. I think the Afghans will change when they want to change and there’s not a lot we can do about it.
It sounds like Afghanistan something more like city-states with some cities being more tolerant than others and lawless hinterlands between them. I think it’s time for most of our forces and all of the stupid, mercenary, contractors, to get out there. Hell, maybe let’s leave the contractors over there and they can live out their bloodlust fantasies over there, beats them coming home and doing it over here.
LOL… There’s a Republican debate and there’s nothing about it over on (un)Sound Politics, the republican blog, and it’s all over the left-wing blog.
@90, it was time to get out of Afghanistan when Bush failed at Tora Bora. All of the tragic American and other war related deaths and expense of borrowed dollars since then have been a sad, sad waste.
re 91: The left wing has a sense of humor.
@91, no worries. warrenpeterson will post a http://notmittromney.com trial balloon or fudge will post a Gary Johnson is My Guy in a couple of days.
Roger @ 82
Kitzhaber for President! It pisses the hell out of me when those who are anti-abortion, but get enthusiastic about wars, starving the poor, and capital punishment, call themselves “pro-life.” They’re about as “pro-life” as a starved hyena.
All in all, I think Newt did quite well in tonight’s debate. I do, however, feel like Ron Paul probably “won” overall.
I’m curious to see if any of you agree… Any thoughts?
@96 Newt wants to start a war with Iran, which is mighty brave talk for a Certified Chickenhawk. If he likes war so much, he should volunteer for one of those we’re already in.
Chest-thumping militarists who send other people’s children to die in wars they’re too yellow to fight themselves are the most disgusting vermin on earth.
To #97: In regard to Iran, I believe what Gingrich said is that he’d be willing to use air strikes as a means of preventing the current regime from developing nuclear weapons, but only as a “last recourse”. He also mentioned the possibility of committing ground troops, but in support of Israel and not as part of a US-led invasion.
Newt Gingrich is a smart guy and has a long history of being pretty pragmatic. I don’t think the lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan have been lost on him.
I think most of his statements on Iran can be chalked up to an instance of “speaking softly and carrying a big stick”. For sanctions and other diplomatic actions to be truly effective, at least the threat of military action should be on the table. I think the Obama Administration has had some real success in respect to Iran, but I also feel that their refusal to so much as mention military action has severely hindered their efforts.
To #97: Policies and sabre-rattling aside, who do you think won the debate last night?