Listening in the 8th

Primary night festivities for me began at Drinking Liberally in Seattle. But “festive” didn’t really describe my mood. Rather I was feeling about 80 years old and in pain owning to a back injury I sustained Monday morning.

At 9:00, I shuffled back to my car and began the slow process of climbing in without the use of specific back muscles. I almost went straight home. But heading back to Redmond, I swung by the Darcy Burner party in Bellevue.

Perhaps it was my heightened sense of senescence, but I ended up in lengthy conversation with an older woman. She had something to get off of her chest and was eager to share it. I didn’t catch her name, but I’ll call her Daisy.

Daisy’s issue was the Bush prescription drug plan that, she felt, had needlessly cost her money. But, more importantly, the plan had made it impossible for some of her less healthy friends to afford the medications they needed. She mentioned cost issues (resulting in maxing out on benefits) and problems that some needed medications were simply not covered by the plan.

Daisy felt strongly enough about the issue that she had talked to Dave Reichert. She reenacted her conversation with Reichert, in which he didn’t seem to “get it.” Rather than listening to the specifics, Reichert simply asserted that she and her friends must be better off under the plan. That’s what it was supposed to do.

When she finished with her story I asked, “So that’s how you became a Darcy Burner supporter?”

Daisy responded emphatically, “No…that’s how I became: ‘Anyone. But. Reichert.'”

Fair enough!

Thirty minutes later, I noticed that Daisy had struck up a conversation with someone else:

Darcy Burner speaks to a future constitutient

In the middle of a busy night filled with media, hugs, handshakes, and cheers, Darcy Burner took some time to listen to Daisy’s story. I’m guessing that’s how Daisy became a Darcy Burner supporter.

On my way out the door, I ran into Darcy and asked, “Can you share a few words with HorsesAss readers about tonight?” And she graciously obliged:


So that, dear readers, will have to serve as our podcast—let’s call it our micro-podcast—for this week.


  1. 1

    YLB spews:

    I feel your pain Darryl. I was bending around some equipment a few months back and actually heard something make a scraping sound. That was scary. Sleeping, lying down was very difficult. Sitting was hard. I had to keep standing and moving.

    But.. Ibuprofen worked wonders. Four of those things and I was believing I was over this thing for hours at a time.

  2. 2

    YLB spews:

    And it’s stories like this that will prove to be the undoing of the know-nothing, over-his-head accidental Sheriff.


  3. 3



    “I was bending around some equipment”

    Yep… similar to what happened to me.

    “Ibuprofen worked wonders.”

    Normally, Ibuprofen doesn’t do much for me in relieving pain, but I’ve been using it as an anti-inflammatory drug.

  4. 5



    “What happens if Darcy HorsesAss Burner loses again in November?”

    I believe that would mean that Dave Reichert would serve another two years. Why do you ask?

  5. 6

    W. Klingon Skousen spews:

    re 4: Well, if that happens, we can all look forward to more of Sheriff Dave’s fiercely independent ‘mavericky’ positions on things.

    Name some ‘fiercely independent’ things that Sheriff Dave thinks or has accomplished?

  6. 8

    SeattleJew spews:


    Call me Cassandra but I was disappointed yesterday’s vote. It suggests that both sides have about equal turn out of activists and that is tto DR’s advantage,

    I have heard others worry about the DB campaign as well. They feel she is coming across as too much of a one issue candidate and a smart ass who is living off of invisible support while others work for a living.

    The latter is a hard problem but the former shuld be addressed. It seems to me that this sort of story needs to get out (though truth be told, DR is probabaly telling the truth).

    I also believe Darcy should “adopt” the high tech road making major issues of support for immigration and real science. I have urged her to see if she can not recruit Mary Claire King as a supporter and think she would get cred for referring to the way high tech makes East side jobs, DR is not unfriendly to the UW or MS, but he lacks the IQ to talk sensibly about such issues.

  7. 9

    Puddybud spews:

    Gee, I see some good responses and then I see the standard HA moron appearing in post #7.

    Still a clueless idiot and a yelling loser boy SCUM to boot! 2DFIMHO

  8. 12


    Puddinghead @4,

    If Darcy loses in November, I personally will be very depressed. And I doubt Darcy would run again for the 8th.

    But if it’s not 2008, the Dems will take that seat in 2010 or 2012. The 8th is trending Democratic, and there is little anybody can do to battle the demographics.

    It’s a shame that the 8th has such a mediocre representative. We’re trying to change that, but all we can do is try.

  9. 13

    Mark1 spews:

    Ah, Ditzy, I mean Darcy is still running against G.W. Bush I see. Maybe one day she’ll actually beat him! Oh wait, that’s right, he’s out soon. Poor Darcy….ooohhhh….shiney!

  10. 15

    Puddybud spews:

    Man, when God gave out intelligence, I see it flowed down both your mothers’ legs.

    Idiots #1 & #2. You two have been Burner cheerleaders on this board claiming a Burner victory. Yelling Loser Boy SCUM (notice the great come back he posted – NOT!) has been saying this is a Donkey year. Well, if Darcy loses, what will your reasons she lost you two fools if this is such a big Donkey year, in one of the “bluest” states?

    Man, simple questions are lost on these simpletons. It’s good to see Goldy’s coterie of HA idiots displaying their mindless drivel again!

    Steve, you need to reduce the quantity of idiot pills you take each day!

  11. 16

    Puddybud spews:

    Goldy, a tempered, thoughtful response. Much better then the two idiots above who play liberals here on this board.

  12. 17

    Steve spews:

    @15 “flowed down both your mothers’ legs” “simpletons” “you two fools” “HA idiots” “mindless drivel”

    Speaking of mindless drivel.

  13. 18

    Puddybud spews:

    Steve, since I don’t abuse goats, that’s bybygoober’s #2 quality, why would I need to take a position on something as stupid as that? Only you think it’s necessary to comment on that so maybe you should explain how you started abusing goats!

  14. 19

    Puddybud spews:

    Steve, answer the question.

    Oops… why did I ask that? The question is too tough for you isn’t it Steve, being HAs Biggest ASSHole?

  15. 20

    Steve spews:

    @15 “Steve, you need to reduce the quantity of idiot pills you take each day!”

    More mindless drivel. “Stupes” Yup, that fits, all right.

  16. 24

    Puddybud spews:

    As you can see it’s very difficult discussing anything with two of the more dumber than rocks, dense as spent uranium morons such as Steve, HAs Biggest ASSHole and Yelling Loser Boy NAMBLA-SCUM!

    Neither can asnwer a simple question about their positions.

  17. 27

    Steve spews:

    @18 “I don’t abuse goats”

    Good Lord, you freak, get it through your thick skull, “Baa” means no!

    @24 “HAs Biggest ASSHole”

    I’m flattered that you think so.

  18. 28

    YLB spews:


    Stupes is insane. He used to sock-puppet as MWS (Mike Webb Sucks) and then he (Puddybud) would circle jerk with MWS!!!

    He’s that fucking loony! And then he forgot that he (MWS) lied about being Puddybud and Another TJ got him to leave when ATJ proved it. Caught in a web of his own lies! He said he’d stay away. He said “my word is my bond” (total bullshit).

    Of course he came back giving some bullshit excuse. He’s a liar, a bet-welsher and a loser!

  19. 29

    John425 spews:

    Ill admit to being a Reichert supporter but having said that, you gotta admit that Burner’s TV ad wherein she mentions her brother in the service and then shows her “Iraq war plan” etc.
    is juvenile. Somebody ought to tell her Bush is not running again!

  20. 30

    Steve spews:

    @28 Good to hear some of Stupes’ ‘case history’. Goatfucking certainly doesn’t point towards mental stability. So, yeah, I’m pretty sure he’s a fucking loon, too.

  21. 31

    YLB spews:

    Somebody ought to tell her Bush is not running again!

    But we’ll live with the consequences of Bush’s disastrous decisions for a long time to come.

    You guys blamed everything bad during Bush’s reign on Bill Clinton.

    Well, whatever goes around comes around… You brought it on yourselves.

  22. 32

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    @29 yeah – like the right wing retards don’t pretend Bill Clinton isn’t running? Why does the right always have to have a double standard?

  23. 33

    Daddy Love spews:

    29 J425

    Pointing out that those who support GW Bush’s anti-worker, economy-busting, civil-liberty-violating, pro-donor policies are likely to continue to support such policies is in fact quite reasonable. Voters who don’t want a representative who supports such policies can then make an informed choice.

  24. 34

    rhp6033 spews:

    John425 @ 29: Uh, last time I checked, we were still in Iraq. I’d be astonished if we were out by January, much less November. So having a reasonable plan for dealing with the Iraq situation is relevent to running for Congress – regardless of who is President next Jan. 20th.

    In contrast, Dave Reichart isn’t going to know what what position to take after Bush leaves office, he’s voted with Bush on the subject right down the line.

    Funny how the Republicans are running so fast and furious to try to distance themselves from Bush.

    Hey, shouldn’t the outgoing President and head of their Party make a major speech at the Convention? You know, summing up the accomplishments of the past eight years of Republican administration, and passing the mantle of leadership off to McCain to continue the good work for at least the next four years????

    (sounds of crickets chirping)

  25. 35

    kirk91 spews:

    8..what do you mean support for immigration? Welcoming in more H1b visa folks? Not a great idea, I don’t think.

    It’s too bad Seattle has a mediocre rep in McDermott also, and yet the Greens (or other Seattle lefties) can’t get anyone to mount a credible run against him. Crazy.

  26. 36

    rhp6033 spews:

    Actually, reforming the Bush prescription drug pland DOES need to be a major priority of the next administration. I know lawyers who can’t figure it out, after talking with their doctors the only thing anyone can say is “submit the claim, and see if they’ll pay it!” The word is that if you think you’ve got it figured out, then you really don’t understand it.

  27. 37

    Daddy Love spews:

    15 Pud

    Idiots #1 & #2. You two have been Burner cheerleaders on this board claiming a Burner victory. Yelling Loser Boy SCUM (notice the great come back he posted – NOT!) has been saying this is a Donkey year. Well, if Darcy loses, what will your reasons she lost you two fools if this is such a big Donkey year, in one of the “bluest” states?

    This IS, in fact, why they question your intelligence.

    You seem to imply here that if it is a “Donkey year,” then no Republican can win any race in this country. Not true, and you know it.

    You seem to imply here that because Washington is “one of the bluest states,” that no Republican can win an election anywhere in the state. Not true, and you know it.

    The 8th CD has been reliably Republican for decades. The margin by which they lead has been narrowing over the years. The trend seems clear, but no one really knows when Democrats will get over the top here.

    So maybe Darcy will win and maybe she won’t. But guess what? The total primary vote for the various Democratic candidates in running for US Representative in the 8th CD was more than Dave Reicher’s total. Good news for Darcy.

    Man, simple questions are lost on these simpletons.

    Given your own faulty, simplistic approach, I don’t know if I’d keep slinging “simpleton” about, if I were you.

  28. 38

    Daddy Love spews:

    34 rhp

    I heard that Bush, Cheney, and Lieberman are all going to speak on the first night of the Republican Convention.

  29. 39

    Daddy Love spews:

    35 K91

    What’s wrong with “H1b visas?” You got something against highly educated, skilled immigrants?

  30. 40

    speedopeneto spews:

    I just happened by and can’t believe this language. You all sound like idiots. Getting back to the main page regarding dear, sweet Darcy. I actually saw something that made me look twice at the character of this professional candidate. I was attending a meeting where candidates had been invited to speak. I was walking behind Darcy and the three people with her. At the same time, Keith Arnold was driving in to park. He drives an older model car and he had a sign in his window, advertising his candidacy. The sign was not the most professional; however, I don’t think Keith probably has the money to spend that Darcy does. The three people with Darcy began making fun of Keith, along with Darcy snickering. When she realized that other people were seeing this, she said to her companions that they really shouldn’t do that. However, it was obvious lip service. It was like high school….I lost a lot of respect for her that day. Keith is always professional, well dressed, and well spoken. No one deserves to be treated the way he was by Darcy and her band of followers.

    I have been a Democrat my entire life, but am now switching to the Republican side. Our Gov does lie, over and over. I am dismayed by the attitudes I see in our party. I have found the Republicans to behave in a much more professional manner. I don’t agree with many of their stands; however, in this over taxed State, I will vote for Republicans.

  31. 41

    Puddybud spews:

    Yelling Loser Boy SCUM: Glad you brought up MWS. As promised I’ll deliver your putrid history here every time you choose discuss MWS. Since you didn’t figger it out but Ol’ Puddy figgered out you were For the Clueless.

    November 10 2006 10AM, Still is Clueless said “I’m leaving”. At 5:07 PM the same day Yos Lib Bro appeared. Unfortunately for Still is Clueless, his commentary gave him away. Since Puddy has a long memory I spotted many of the same worthless dribble drivel from the silly fingers of Yelling Loser Boy SCUM. I called him out and he admitted it. Goldy told the world MWS was me, otherwise I could use that still. So I guess yous a big ASS liar huh?

    So Yelling Loser Boy SCUM, how does one circle jerk on a screen? Wait a minute I know you’ll figger it out.

    See the diff? Well I do believe it’s lost on a dumber than rocks, dense as spent uranium moron such as Yelling Loser Boy SCUM.

  32. 42

    rhp6033 spews:

    Still waiting for somebody to say what Reichart has done in the last four years in Congress which deserves re-election to another four years.

    I checked his website a while back, and I couldn’t find much, other than “serving on committees”.

  33. 43

    Puddybud spews:

    Daddy N. Love: I see simple arguments are lost on you too.

    Did I imply this is a Donkey year? NOPE you DOPE. That was your side.

    Steve, HAs Biggest ASSHole and Yelling Loser Boy SCUM have. OVER AND OVER!

    This blog over and over has trumpet the “worthiness” of Darcy Burner. Almost all of the Goldy cheerleaders, you included, have stated this is her year. Many have stated this is the “year of the Donkey”, such as Yelling Loser Boy SCUM and Steve, HAs Biggest ASSHole. Now you are trying to turn the argument, with a soft landing that she may lose. How can this be, with so many Donkey here trumpeting her superior intellectual powers, her command of the english language, her “achievements”? Sorry N., doesn’t work and the glove don’t fit.

    I stand by my simpleton statement as you joined that crowd!

  34. 44

    YLB spews:

    41 – LMAO!!! Your long memory was faulty when it came to MWS lying about being Puddybud. ATJ made short work of you, Mr “my word is my bond”.

    You can run but you can’t hide Stupes.

    I’ll be back with the proof of your lies and your circle-jerking with MWS.

  35. 45

    YLB spews:

    I have been a Democrat my entire life, but am now switching to the Republican side…

    After what Bush has done to this country?

    After over 4100 dead U.S. military and countless other Iraqi men, women, children?

    After doubling the national debt?

    You want to join the likes of these guys?

    Who needs you? Don’t let the door hit your worthless ass on the way out.

  36. 46

    Emmanuel Goldstein spews:

    I saw McCain on CNN this noon babbling on about privatizing social security, he wants to give us old folks cash and let us go find a doctor, take care of ourself.

    He wants to make his kissing-cousin Bush’s tax cuts permanent. What a deadbeat. Let the grandkids and great-grandkids pay for it, we’ll all be dead. If we don’t pay the debt the republicans have amassed, the dollar will have no value. Today the Canadian dollar is worth more than ours.

    If we’re not careful, we’ll be a two-bit economy armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons. Somebody will have to come and take them from us.

  37. 47

    YLB spews:

    For all those Puddybud fans out here’s a nice little circle jerk between him and MWS:

    Here’s a good cut:

    20. Mike Webb Sucks spews:

    Puddy, you went to Kurse?

    Don’t you feel soiled now?

    24. Puddybud Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    MWS: One is never soiled when I use their web sites to point out the hypocrisy of Goldy! In the earlier blog entry McGavick stepped in it. Well let him keep stepping in it as he edges closer to Cantvotetoowell.

    Remember: MWS and Puddybud are one and the same! LMAO!!

    I challenge the name-calling liar PuddyNAMBLA to come up with one instance of me or any other HA commenter on my side of the aisle who was ever vain or stupid enough to circle jerk with himself.

  38. 48


    speedopeneto @40,

    You “just happened by,” huh?

    Hmm. Don’t you think if you’re going to relate this alleged anecdote, instead of passing yourself off as just a concerned citizen and a disillusioned Democrat… wouldn’t it be more honest to be up front about your close personal relationship with one of Darcy’s opponents?

    Your comment just reeks of sock puppetry. I’m generally loathe to out a commenter, so I’m hoping you take it upon yourself to do the right thing and publicly identify yourself.

  39. 49

    YLB spews:

    Here’s where Puddybud aka MWS tells his most blatant lie:

    133. Mike Webb SUCKS spews:

    For Thoroughly Clueless: I voted for Sonntagg because he is the opposite of you! GGGGGet itttttt?
    10/01/2006 at 12:58 pm

    134. For the Clueless spews:

    133 – busted. Puddybud…

    139. Mike Webb SUCKS spews:

    Good Try For Thoroughly Clueless. I admit I voted for Brian Sonntag. I voted donk for once in my life. Wait a minute. I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. That’s twice I voted donk.

    Yes Clueless you got me. I am puddybud! NOT. Do I write like him? Do I attack you with the Internet like him? I would have to keep straight all the names I call you and all the names he calls you. Even for a conservative that’s a tough task.

    LMAO!!! That’s bang up entertainment even today!! He’s saying he’s superior to all conservatives! How tough is that? What a loon!

    For me the most hilarious moment in HA history has to be when Puddybud crossed that proverbial line of no return to circle jerk with MWS. One of these days I’ll have to research the archives to ferret out the build up to that magical moment.

    Someone’s got to do it.

  40. 50

    diamondshards spews:

    Thank you to the few HA posters who are actually interested in discussing this topic in a civil manner.

    If all Darcy can say about the outcome of yesterday’s primary is that “a majority of the WA-08 electorate wants change”, it must be a bad day for her. She needed a win here – a mandate during this supposedly democrat-energized year, to get $$$ support from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

    Not looking good is it Darcy?

    As I’ve said before, she’s the same Darcy Burner who lost in ’06 in the biggest democratic sweep in decades. She had no relevant experience or public service then and she has none now.

    Reichert in ’08.

  41. 52

    YLB spews:

    50 – That’s a well-worn right wing talking point.

    This post has a clear case of an “anybody but Reichert” senior voter to Darcy Burner supporter.

    Those seniors show up to vote. Watch out!

    Burner 2008!

  42. 53

    GBS spews:

    Goldy @ 48:

    Ummmmmm . . . what’s the time limit on “doing the right thing and identifying yourself publicly” before you do it?

    It’s one thing to toss firebombs at each other, as I am guilty of, but this blatant form of lying is born of evil.

    When asked by Pastor Warren of Saddleback Church if evil existed Barak answered: “Evil does exist. . . It has to be confronted squarely, and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, now, we are not going to, as individuals, be able to erase evil from the world. That is God’s task, but we can be soldiers in that process, and we can confront it when we see it.

    Let’s do as Barak suggested and confront the evil of lying.

    So out the Devil, please.

  43. 54

    kirk91 spews:

    Daddy Love on H1B visas:

    Yup do have something against our government allowing companies like Microsoft to import workers to do the same job as American workers for half the price or less.

  44. 55

    rhp6033 spews:

    50: Hmmm, a primary held in mid-August seems unlikely to bring out a lot of new, young voters. You know, the kind that seem to be coming out of the woodwork in support of Obama.

    Many are finishing up their summer jobs, quite a few out-of-state, and preparing to return to college in the fall. I wonder when they turn out to vote in November, how many of them are going to vote for Obama, but will split the ticket and vote for Reichart for Congress? I doubt very many.

    Most of these young voters don’t have land-lines, relying entirely on cell phones. They don’t get polling calls. I suspect that their presence will be quite a big surprise when they turn out to vote in November.

  45. 58

    Puddybud spews:

    Remember Yelling Loser Boy SCUM – ATJ is much smarter than you. Shit, bybygoober is smarter than you and that’s a tough one to swallow like your Daily Kos visit of the warm man-made sticky white kool-aid you drink every morning in your coffee.

    Remember Yelling Loser Boy SCUM I personally outed you without the help of Goldy. ATJ would have never known without Goldy’s help. That’s the truth and you know it.

    Keep up the great work. Anyone can go back into a thread and validate their positions. I did it live on HA – fool!

  46. 59

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey bitch Yelling Loser Boy SCUM, when do you want to meet at HA?

    Are you man enough? bybygoober was a chicken. I bet you’d be one too.

  47. 60

    YLB spews:

    I thought you accepted the challenge.

    Are we changing the subject?

    Who on my side of the aisle was stupid or vain enough to circle jerk with his own sock-puppet? What kind of jerk-off fool does something like that?

    Meet with you? I just read some of MWS’ mind-numbing bullshit from back in the day. Anybody would be out of their frickin’ mind to be in the same room with you! I got a lot of better things to do than to drink within proximity of a street corner loon.

  48. 61

    GBS spews:


    What gives, man? You’re feeling particularly fisty today.

    Did you get your Viagra prescription refilled?

  49. 64

    YLB spews:

    63 – So you can’t prove anyone in my camp is as stupid and narcissistic as you.

    Thought so.

    On to November…

  50. 65

    Steve spews:

    @43 “year of the donkey”

    What the fuck? I never said any such thing. However, I won’t call you a liar as you’re just too fucking stupid to have any idea of what you’re talking about.

    You know, Puddy, or whoever you are, having multiple screen names, conversing with yourself – what the fuck is up with that, for Christ’s sake? You really are a fucking loon, aren’t you?

  51. 66

    Steve spews:

    Puddy/MWS, whoever you are now, you’re really are one ugly person. I just hope that you of some sense of it. If not, then you’re just totally, completely and irreversably fucked up.

    @48 Oh, God, I’ve got a feeling someone posted here today who is every bit as fucked up as Puddy. Does one really have to be batshit crazy to be a Republican these days? No, don’t bother, Goldy. I think I already know the answer.

  52. 67

    FricknFrack spews:

    Good on Reichert! Dude probably just blew off a BUNDLE of votes – the way he brushed off that little old lady.

    She’s living on the receiving painful end of Bush’s prescription drug plan and it did damage to a LOT of Sr. Citizens. Main reason I won’t join AARP, after their eager willingness to jump on that stinking bandwagon. Daisy is VERY likely to know what the damages being inflicted are really all about.

    So, now… Sr. Citizens LOVE to talk and share all the details with their Friends, Family, Church mates, pals at the Sr. Citizen Centers, across the table to fellow Bingo players – the list is endless. Especially when it’s a subject near and dear to all of their hearts, and the man acted rather disrespectfully to her concerns. Nice (seriously DUMB!) move Reichert. Like someone said, SENIORS do vote Bigtime!

  53. 68

    FricknFrack spews:

    @ 55. rhp6033 spews:

    Many are finishing up their summer jobs, quite a few out-of-state, and preparing to return to college in the fall. I wonder when they turn out to vote in November, how many of them are going to vote for Obama, but will split the ticket and vote for Reichart for Congress? I doubt very many.

    I think you make some very valid points! For one thing, if the new younger voters are eager to vote Obama into office, they’re not going to want to see a divisive Congress. They’re going to want Obama to receive the help and support needed to ‘change’ the direction of this Country. They’ve also been hearing about all of Bush’s Vetos with regards to any proposal which might actually help American Citizens.

    Very good points you make, rhp!

  54. 71

    YLB spews:

    the old November argument.

    It’s not an argument fool just a shrug that you’ve conceded your idiocy.

  55. 72


    Goldy spews: 48

    I have no problem letting you know who I am. My name is Sally Daugherty. And I am no one’s sock puppet. Just because I know and support one of the opposition does not mean that I am lying, although that is what you are banking on. This incident did happen. Darcy knows that it happened. She owes Keith an apology, although he didn’t see since he was in his car.

    So…I am now outed! I stand by what I saw and challenge you to ask Darcy about the incident. Clearly it will not impact her campaign because there are people like you who will do whatever you can to discredit anyone that speaks out against the party. I may be a lot of things, but I am not evil.

  56. 73

    Steve spews:

    @72 Why on earth would you call Burner a “professional candidate”?

    Odd, a lifetime Democrat switching party affiliation after what we’ve all witnessed these past years.

    “I have found the Republicans to behave in a much more professional manner”

    You mean, like roughing up cameramen?

  57. 74



    I refer to Darcy as a “Professional Candidate” because she makes a pretty good living while running for office, which she has done for the last several years. But that is another topic.

    Yes, I have been a democrat forever. I am dating myself, but I supported people like Abbie Hoffman and the Chicago 7. I protested the Viet Nam War, and personally knew three of my friends that did not come back. I care about these issues.

    I think Bush is an idiot, and I think a lot of Republicans agree. So I qualify what I meant.

    I am a business owner, and if you are not one, there is no way you can appreciate what it costs to do business in Washington. I spoke with Rep. Bob Hasegawa the other night, and he is fully aware of how upside down our tax system is. The Tanker deal that all our law makers are upset over is partly their fault. A company can build anything in another state cheaper than they can in Washington. And, guess what? I pay more B&O Tax than Boeing.. Is that fair? And our Gov is using the Forbes article to promote her Business Friendly environment. Well, I wrote Forbes and asked them where they came up with that fact. I was emailed back that Washington State is not the best when it comes to taxes. There is techology (like Microsoft), educated labor force, and nice surroundings. I don’t think any govt. can take credit for Microsoft. My point – the gov is misleading. “Just because you say it does not make it so.”

    I don’t care any longer what party is in office if they actually accomplish something real. Enough said….

    The bottom line for me is that I am tired of elected officials sending me form letters, discussing issues in meetings for years on end without anything getting done. The B&O Tax has been on the table for reform every year, and it keeps getting moved out another year. A lot of small business will go under during this time.

    I am at a point in my life where I am forced to vote for the candidate that will hurt me less and not more. I think there are a lot of people out there that feel the way I do.

    Perhaps if all of us started to see one another’s point of view, we could all benefit from a transparent government that is accountable to the people who elect them.

  58. 75


    @73 You mean, like roughing up cameramen?

    There are jerks in both parties. There are jerks in all parties. When we can get beyond the “Party” we might get somewhere.

  59. 76

    Steve spews:

    @75 “When we can get beyond the “Party” we might get somewhere.”

    @40 “I have been a Democrat my entire life, but am now switching to the Republican side.”

    I take it that you haven’t moved past the “Party”.

    @74 “I am a business owner, and if you are not one”

    I am one and I can tell you the the BS flies when Republicans open their mouths in regards to small business.

    “Yes, I have been a democrat forever. I am dating myself, but I supported people like Abbie Hoffman and the Chicago 7. I protested the Viet Nam War, and personally knew three of my friends that did not come back. I care about these issues.”

    As someone of that era, I can only wonder where you got this singular notion of what a Democrat was back then. Did Scoop support Abbie Hoffman? Hubert? Were Scoop and Hubert out protesting the war? The Democratic party was many things back then, but it was NOT a lock-step party of war protesters. Some opposed the war (doves), others did not (hawks).

  60. 78

    rhp6033 spews:

    74: I work in a large business, and run a small business on the side. In the past, I’ve had my own business in Washington State (twice), and worked in private businesses since I left college.

    I do agree that the current tax system in Washington is unfair to small businesses. A lot of that is because of the B&O tax, which is structured to reward large established companies and penalize small startups and medium-size businesses where services are a large part of their business.

    But that’s hardly Gregoire’s fault. She has inherited a system which has been preserved in place by deadlock between the political parties. A real reform of that system is needed, but the Republicans would be the first to object to any meaningful reform, in the most strident fashion.

    A state income tax on both personal and corporate income would put Washington in line with the great majority of states, and get us out of the business of trying to collect sales taxes for other states (as is being required by the multi-state sales tax compact).

    But an income tax is, in Washington, the “third rail” of local politics. A politician touches it and he/she dies. We need to educate the electorate on what a real, revenue-neutral change in our tax structure could mean. Sure, there would be some winners and losers in such a change. I dare say we would have to eliminate the sales tax entirely in return for a state income tax. But the overall benefits would be better for everyone, including a state budget which is less subject to the roller-coaster ride we currently experience.

    Unfortunately, the Republicans have been rallying anti-tax and small and medium business owners by blaming the Democrats for everything that is inconvenient about government. But as the recent national experience has shown, they don’t have solutions to those problems. Their own solutions have just made the problems worse for everyone but an elite few.

    Given the experience of having Republicans practice their economic policies on us over the past seven+ years, there is no excuse for allowing any of them to hold office within this generation.

  61. 79

    Steve spews:

    @77 As an architect/engineer, I fall under the “Service & Other Activities” catagory, or a .015 rate. Not exactly the end of the world.

  62. 80

    rhp6033 spews:

    74: By the way, the tanker deal is NOT the fault of the Democrats. How anyone can make that argument with a straight face is beyond me. The cost of the two systems are comparable, and local taxes are just a very small part of the cost structure. Besides, Boeing gets some VERY BIG BREAKS on it’s tax liabilities which the average business doesn’t have.

    The major cost comparisons is not between Washington State and Alabama, it’s between Everett, Washington and Toulousee, France. It’s pretty difficult to get an accurate comparison (somewhat of an apples & oranges thing, and both companies try to keep their real costs hidden from each other and the public), but aside from currency fluctuations both Airbus and Boeing can produce commercial aircraft for close to the same amount of money. If they couldn’t, then one or the other wouldn’t sell any airplanes.

    Don’t be misled by the AEDS position that their entry in the competition is being built by Northrup at Mobile. For the initial airplanes, AEDS will build all the major structures, which will be bolted together in “final assembly” in Mobile by workers who will have to be trained in aerospace manufacturing (a difficult regulatory environment in which to work – ask Boeing people about their experiences with their sub-contractors in North Carolina on the 787 program).

    But my sources in Paris have told me that the French union officials have assured Airbus workers that there is a “side deal”, whereby after the first few tankers will undergo final assembly in the U.S., then final assembly will be reverted to Toulousse in an “efficiency measure” and then flown fully assembled to Mobile, with only the installation of the fueling systems and some defense-department controlled elecontronic systems in Mobile.

    When that happens, the French will be laughing, Alabama officials will be left trying to explain how their “tens of thousands” of new jobs became only a few hundred (after considerable local investment by the city, county, and state), and the U.S. taxpayer will be enriching Europe with their hard-earned tax dollars.

    Boeing lost the last tanker competition because (a) it screwed up the first time, giving both itself and the Air Force a black eye; (b) Air Force procurement officers aren’t likely to want to bend over backwards for a company who’s conduct contributed to one of their own ending up in jail with her career ruined; (c) John McCain went out of his way to have the Air Force change the bid requirments, in the middle of the process, to make sure Airbus stayed in the game and had an advantage over Boeing; and (d) the Air Force made mistakes in calculating the lifetime costs of the competing proposals.

    It was the state’s Democratic congressional delegation which went on the offensive to make sure Boeing got a fair shot at the contract, and hopefully the re-bid will correct some of those errors. I’m skeptical, however, that the Air Force, having received yet another black eye in this last bid process, will still tilt the scales against Boeing.

    In the meatime, it’s Republican presidential candidate John McCain who is flying on a campaign airplane made at Airbus by French workers, with profits going to a multi-national European consortium including the French government, who has Airbus lobbyists on his campaign staff.

    And the Republicans have the gall to complain that it’s the Democrat’s fault that Boeing is having so much trouble getting the contract????? Give me a break…..

  63. 81



    I did not say that it was the fault of the Democrats. I said our lawmakers are partly to blame.

    The B&O Tax is a depression tax and that is about how long we have had it. My point is that it needs to be changed. If I can’t look to my current administration to do something about it, who do I look to?

    I would gladly exchange a fair corporate tax for what we now have. I would also support a fair income tax in exchange for our current B&O.

  64. 82



    I am in the staffing industry. And please don’t start with the snide remarks, because we actually do put people to work. We all have to pay the business & occupation tax on gross receipts, not gross profit. The largest part of my gross receipts is my employee’s rate of pay. I then have to add worker’s comp, fica, etc.

    No big deal – maybe not to you. However, when this happened many small services went under, and one person took his life. Our daily lives are what matters, and our lawmakers need to hear and act on that premise.


    Employee Pay Rate 17.00
    Fica 1.30
    SUI .14
    FUI .12
    L&I 2.14
    Bill Rate 24.01

    My Profit per hour (as this is paid & billed by the hour) 3.31 per hour

    I pay tax on the 24.01. This is crazy. The Big Boy staffing companies can absorb some of this. But we can’t. It wasn’t always like this. The State changed it in the early 90’s because they thought the staffing services were not paying their fair share. We had always paid on gross profit before.

  65. 83

    Steve spews:

    @81 Dino Rossi is closely tied to the BIAW. The president of the BIAW writes in the March newsletter that, “The older folks in the mainstream enviro groups silently applaud” the torching of homes. The executive vice president wrote of a state senator as being a “hater”. Gov. Gregoire was called a “hater” and described as a “she-wolf who would devour her young”. An editorial likened environmentalists to Stalin and Hitler. State employees were called communists. It was stated that environmentalists are the “amalgam of Nazism and communism”.

    Does any of that bother you? When you think of Rossi, does his strong association with the BIAW give you pause?

    “don’t care any longer what party is in office if they actually accomplish something real.”

    Do you consider the new Narrows bridge to be real?

  66. 84


    Yes, the New Narrows bridge is real. I lived in Gig Harbor for 15 years and moved to the Southend of Tacoma when I learned about the tolls. Do you commute from the Kitsap Peninsula? Do you think it is fair for those folks to pretty much pick up the whole tab?

    Why no comment on the infamous B&O?

    And let’s talk about those older folks….
    Are you even somewhat familiar with Country Air Mobile Park? Who in the Democratic party is helping these people? Most of these folks will not qualify for low income help, yet they own ther dwellings. Now Home Depot has bought the land out from under them and there is no safety net. They all have to be out by February. Do you want to stand up and find a way to help. Would you like to attend a Council meeting?

    I doubt it.. I did attend…As I said earlier, it is about our daily lives that matter..It is why we vote, don’t kid yourself on this.

    So, respond to what I posted or just be your spewing Democratic BS.

  67. 85


    speedopeneto @72

    What you are, Sally, is Jim Vaughn’s fiance, pretending to be just an ordinary observer and disillusioned Democrat. When Jim commented here on HA, he used his real name. But you used a pseudonym, commented on the race, and failed to acknowledge your conflict of interest. That is indeed sock puppetry.

    Now people can read our original comment in the proper context.

  68. 86



    Why do you suppose people decide to get involved? I have actually been more involved in many ways than Jim for many years. We get involved because we become tired of what is going on. We get tired of the BS. Make of what you will, but to suggest that I am just a sock puppet for Jim is actually going again what I thought were democratic values. Don’t women have their own voice? I don’t see anyone else outing themselves when I am sure they are sock puppets for Darcy. You don’t play fair, Goldy. You don’t play fair. What name do you use when you post on the stranger?

  69. 87

    Steve spews:

    @84 “Do you commute from the Kitsap Peninsula?” I have owned a home in Mason County for eighteen years. I have commuted to Seattle. I don’t mind the toll. Four bucks a day is hardly reason to move to Tacoma. Now, if they had inflicted a toll years before they even knew what bridge they would build, well, that’s another story.

    “Country Air Mobile Park?” “Would you like to attend a Council meeting?” “I doubt it.. I did attend…” Good for you. When you start showing up at our meetings in Union, you’ll be much better positioned to criticize my lack of attendance at Gig Harbor meetings.

    “So, respond to what I posted or just be your spewing Democratic BS.”

    Applied with the usual Republican broad brush stroke. I’m your typical Dem, alright. As such, I no doubt fit into an easy to find slot in your own personal reality construct. I’m happy for you.

  70. 88

    Steve spews:

    @86 “I don’t see anyone else outing themselves” My name is Steve and I post as Steve. I don’t mislead in any way, shape or form as to my identity, career, associations or affiliations. The views I express are my own and are often contrary to those held by those who run this blog and the Democratic party. You, on the other hand, were outed. There was a reason for that.

  71. 89


    @86 Seems to me I outed myself…

    Yes, I commuted from the Lakebay area to Bellevue and Seattle for about 15 years. I also still have friends on the Peninsula. Many of the younger people are finding it very difficult to afford those tolls. And they will keep rising. In a weak economy that will be tough for alot folks on the Peninsula.

    The meeting I was actually referring to was the Council meeting in Tacoma. That is the city who is in charge of the Country Air mess.

  72. 90

    Steve spews:

    @89 The traffic mess on 16 is pretty much gone. Would your friends rather pay $20 a week in tolls or sit in their car going nowhere for an additional 6-10 hours a week? My time is valuable. I would think your friends’ time would be valuable as well.

    Did you really expect me to go to the meeting in Tacoma? I hope not. If I went to every meeting for every issue in even my own county, I’d have no time left for work, play or my own chosen causes.

    Yes, you outed yourself. Glad you did because the first post was very misleading, even deceptive, without your revealing your close associations.

  73. 91



    I am talking about the fact that it is becoming cost prohibitive for some of these people to live on the Kitsap Peninsula. They don’t all have the same salary as you…

    And no I would not expect you to attend every meeting; however, the issue regarding Country Air is an important one that will effect many other people who need affordable housing. This will impact people in the entire State if there isn’t something done.

  74. 92

    Steve spews:

    @91 It’s cost prohbitive to live anywhere in the Puget Sound region. You assume a high salary, and you’re right, but even I can’t afford to live in Seattle. Well, I could live there. But I’d have to trade a log home on a golf course for a 400 sq ft condo. It’s a choice.

    As someone who grew up extremely poor, even homeless, I have great empathy for those less fortunate than myself. However, I also came away with a well founded wariness of those who try to do good, but lacking wisdom, do harm instead. As for Country Air, I wish for you grace and wisdom in your own gesture towards those less fortunate than yourself.