I hope the Seattle P-I forgives me for pushing the “fair use doctrine” beyond its limits, and reprinting this Letter to the Editor from Monday’s edition, in its entirety:
I am a correctional officer at a major state correctional institution. I am a supporter of Gov. Christine Gregoire.
Reading of the Republicans’ assertion that statistics support the likelihood that felons voted for Gregoire, I have to raise a big red flag.
Based upon my observations of felons in prison, it is highly unlikely that most felons voted for Gregoire. It is more likely that felons would have voted for Dino Rossi.
During the long election contest, many inmates expressed their opinions to me. Inmates seemed attracted to Rossi because they would rather vote for a man and also because Rossi was promising to shake up state government.
The biggest reason felons are unlikely to have voted for Gregoire is her former occupation: state attorney general. Convicted felons do not support prosecuting attorneys. Many felons expressed concern that Gregoire might be too tough on them.
As one of my history teachers used to say, “Facts lie, and liars have facts.” The statistical analysis of the Republicans is not valid, because there are too many other factors that affect the way felons vote. Criminals do not support attorneys general.
Greg Senderhauf
Forks
Senderhauf’s comments reminded me of a Letter to the Editor in The Olympian, back in February. Brydon Stewart, recently released from a federal prison after serving 16 months for growing marijuana, wrote that the vast majority of his fellow inmates favored Republicans. Why?
Because in their view, Republicans were the virile, tough, action-taking, man’s-man party, while liberals and Democrats were reviled as soft, weak, passive, femme
Goldy,
It is hard to top what you wrote on Jan 8 on this topic,
‘Gregoire spent most of her professional career putting felons behind bars, while Rossi spent much of his working for one. So who do you think is more deserving of the “felon vote”?’
Convicted felons do not support prosecuting attorneys. Many felons expressed concern that Gregoire might be too tough on them
Yeah but the felons must have feared a 5’9″ realtor more right?
Goldy, you can bet your beer money that the Repubs ran a spreadsheet on every statistical methodology imaginable and chose the one that helps Rossi the most. Their litigation strategy isn’t remotely objective or intellectually honest, as shown by the fact they’re arguing the court should only consider illegal votes that helped Gregoire while ignoring illegal votes for Rossi. Also, they’ve focused on problems in King County, which voted for Gregoire, while ignoring similar problems in Republican counties, such as the 1,796 provisional ballots that weren’t signature-checked or verified as eligible voters.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Let’s see…we have a LEFTIST Public Employee making a so-called “observation” about prisoners voting habits. He admits voting for Gregoire…doesn’t say how long he was a correction officer.
Wow, Goldy….and you wonder why I think (rather know) what a bunch of F***ING IDIOTS you LEFTIST PINHEADS ARE???
The HorsesTass (errrrrrr Seattle P-I) fails to report on the Logan depositions…but they find space for a letter like this.
And GOLDY gives it a THREAD.
You LEFTIST PINHEADS must be a bit unsure and a whole unstable about the Logan (Weird Al Yankovic lookalike) depositions and the your chances in this election contest.
Hey felon: “I’m a corrections officer who supports Gregoire and I am doing a little survey. who do you support?”
real unbiased survey. if a rightwinger posted some weak argument like that, even you dimwit libs would laugh no end.
the post has one part right: republicans are much more virile men.
the post has one part right: republicans are much more virile men.
Comment by Rush
And to underscore that comment with a name that epitomizes weakness, and frailty, combined with the low self esteem of a junkie, realy drives home your point.
Rush was addicted to pain killers, like a REAL man.
It is a weak argument… there are no strong arguments here if you are trying to use some statistical measure to decide the election.
Heck, if this is so much more accurate then that messy democratic method of counting the votes, lets just go straight to using polling data to decide elections.
Fact is, we have an incredibly close election and there is always going to be some error. We also have laws and rules about how we go about deciding these elections. Those rules were followed and we have a result.
I was proud of my state for the recounts that had Republican and Democratic observers coming together to decide an election. THAT is democracy – this cry-baby lawsuit is not.
To Rush@5:
“republicans are much more virile men”. I’ve noticed how fond republican men are of each other. They certainly aren’t fond of women. I think the more accurate description of the republican male, at least as they exhibit themselves on this list, would be: “virulent” – in all its meanings.
The rather loud attempt to associate the felon vote with Democrats is another example of the Right Wing’s projection of their own sins onto the oposition. They continually accuse the left of everything they are guilty of themselves.
Limbaugh does this constantly. He is blindly partisan and twists facts to bolster his own ideology, so he accuses the left of it. He calls his opponents every vile name he can think of, so he claims that’s the only argument a Democrat ever uses. He is self-rightious, bigoted, intolerant, and elitist; so he assigns all those traits to liberals.
In short, it is hypocracy and delusion. In studying the Second World War, we called this behaviour by the Nazis ‘the Big Lie’. The Right has learned this lesson well and taken it to new extremes.
6: just like you democrats to have been rooting around in my trash. McDermott was probably listening in on my cell conversations, too.
8: Marilyn: I am happy democratic men are satisfactory for you. I am sure you deserve happiness, sweetness.
Doesn’t FORKS say it all? Please, think about the source……..
Oh yeah, virile men dodge the draft and send younger poorer minorities to fight their wars, get all paranoid about gay men asserting their rights, and want to keep women from asserting their rights. Only woosy liberals would care about wimpy issues like education and healthcare. NOT!
9 Witz: thanks for tuning into my show. apparently often ! no wonder I make so much with both right and left tuned in. isn’t life great ??!!
12: ok, wimp. you’re right.
Wow;
I had the most awful dream, I was in the open thread and I thought I was thinking that the thoughts of Zap/Chard were starting to make sense. That I wanted to be part of the in crowd.
Danw – Scratch the intolerance and hatred.
That statement needs to be taken in a context for which you may not be prepared to deal with at this stage.
You will eventually find that many forms of hatred and intolerance are actually acceptable and beneficial.
Comment by zapporo— 4/25/05 @ 10:18 am
(only one of stupid entries on the open thread)
This should be the definiton of pulling the plug, if the crap that they post ever makes sense to you, you are brain dead.
Zap thanks for the tip on the reciprocating saw, I was going for Makita for the joke, not Milwaukie.
Those CO’s are Union aren’t they? We all know what that means. Let the brainwashing begin. When the Clallam Bay Prison opened and brought badly needed jobs to the area since the liberals hurt the logging industry so bad because of the spotted owl that despite liberal enviro wacko efforts has failed to increase in population. Wasted efforts on the old growth myth. And if thats not bad enough the ‘earf 1st’ crowd is as GOLDY ADMITS ” while liberals and Democrats were reviled as soft, weak, passive, femme – minority and gay-hugging pushovers and saps.” LOL exactly Goldy, women want REAL men.
@11
My thoughts exactly, coupled with; he must have been one of the handful that voted demo in that county, and; he’d better hope his inmates can’t read, that would sure tarnish his tough guy image!
Ghost @11,
Yesterday the righties were belittling Logan because he doesn’t have a college degree, and today you are dismissing somebody because the live in Forks. And yet people like me get characterized by the right as liberal, urban elitists.
And I would suggest that when you site a state prison in place Forks, you can expect most of the employees to live in the nearby communities.
Interesting that the only people interviewed so far about their votes as felons, voted for Dino (I don’t know the difference between a Real Estate Agent and a Broker) Rossi.
This, like every other piece of crap the hateriots are throwing up there to try to steal the Governor’s office, is pure BS!
The GOP has made up as many lies trying to steal the seat in Olympia as George Monkey Face Bush made up to invade Iraq.
Fortunately, the State Supreme Court will end up deciding this and since they are all pals with Chris, the GOP will be sent home packing.
I believe they are running this case for one reason only. Fundraising. They want to stir up all the inbred republican morons who can’t think for themselves and make some money off em!
rush @ where ever
Being told by a junkie I MAY be less of a man is laughable. That’s okay, if the possibility of being less “manly” means I dont abuse narcotics, then so be it. Call me names if it makes you feel better, we know what you are…starts with a druggie and should end with a felony.
Never heard of Elitist correction officers from Forks?
It doesn’t matter who/what you quote to the Chards of the world.
Their only response is to attack the messenger and not the message. then deflect to something else.
They never address the question posed? they would rather look for bad choices made by the Dems. ( Bad choices by one do not make the others okay)
I have aked repeatedly on this Blog. Where do you want facts cited from? other than pulling them out of Zap and Chards butt.
Facts; the enemy of thought.
danW, I love the W. the CO’s are Union correct?
I guess…..But Union = Liar….this is similar funny math that has been used before.
Gregroire =Police Office
Rossi = Real Estate Scammer
How’s that add up?
Love the math questions
For Rush @ 10:
Thank you so much, dear. Best wishes to you as well.
Char;
Here is why we feel your Judgment of Men is a little bit amiss.
But if your a 2, then I guess you must think a 2 is pretty Hot.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Wor.....click=true
So, since it’s such a well known fact that felons vote Republican (said with rolling eyes) please explain the Democrat party concerted effort to allow convicted felons to vote in 2004 and the continued foaming at the mouth to allow it.
http://americandaily.com/article/6878
“The Democrats know that if felons had been allowed to vote in Florida, Al Gore would have won Florida and be president today.”
“Democrats are using a study made by two sociologists, one at the University of Minnesota and the other at Northwestern University, suggesting that, since 1978, seven U.S. Senate races plus the 2000 presidential election would have turned out differently if felons had been allowed to vote. The professors estimate that Florida felons would have given Al Gore an additional 60,000 votes, more than enough to wipe out Bush’s narrow margin of victory.”
So we have a choice of 2 conclusions:
1. While Florida felons: smart: Gore; Washington felons: smart: Rossi
2. You are all simply wrong
3. You are all lying
So, Goldy, may i assume that you have spent time in Forks? No pun intended……..
Any bets on how soon Danw’s head explodes….again?
dan-W @ 24 “WE?” lol
you mistake me for someone that cares what ‘we’ think.
you are OFF TOPIC.
I see the union mailers at election time. I know the rhetoric.
cat @ 25
this would be about, what–the fifth time someone has cited that ridiculous analysis of voting patterns that utilizes data on everything EXCEPT how felons actually vote. For the record: the authors admit they cite no actual felon voting pattern data. They build their case on the assumption that other characteristics (age, gender, socioeconomics) are likely to determine their vote, ignoring the strong possibility that felons have their own pattern distinct from non-felons. They reach their conclusions on the basis of the argument that felons are just like everybody else in the voting booth–a radically untested notion.
I have discussed the issue of how felons would vote extensively in my blog: homesteadbook.com
Basically the Republicans assume that felons are Democrats because they tend to be minorities. On the other hand, felons can be racists, tax-cheaters, gun-lovers, and sociopaths, which would seem to make the Republicans.
My suggestion was to have Mary Lane actually take a poll of felons.
Torrid @ 29
I guess you better warn Hillary and Boxer not to waste their time then, eh?
Stop the Caterwauling @ 27
AGAIN, LOL.
CG @ 26
I think Goldy went thru Forks to get to the HO (HOH) Rain Forest lol. he probably stopped at the Vagabond for a beer. Other than that I doubt he knows Forks to well. he doesn’t seem to be the type of guy who would go fishing on the Bogaschiel River for sturgeon.
Now the two trolls, will return to unsoundpolitics with tales of triumph, they will.
“we bashed goldy good, we did!”
Ok, whatever.
Whine
Your right about off topic, my mistake for falling into one of your stupid deflections @ 15.
cat @ 31
waste their time on what?
torrid @ 35
http://americandaily.com/article/6878
“Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) is pushing for legislation, which would restore the voting rights of every convicted felon living in the United States. Why is she proposing such a ludicrous bill?…Because she knows that 99.9 percent of them, would vote Democratic and would be just the boost she needs for her 2008 Presidential bid.”
“Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) is also seeking to restore the voting rights of felons. Boxer said recently that such a measure “is meant to ensure the election debacle of 2000, and the serious election irregularities of 2004, never ever happen again.” “
33. are you asking for more spankings? we are not into perversions. I’m sure you can find others here that will oblige you, however.
cat @ 36
Not sure I get your point. Why is it a waste of time to discard the useless ban on felon voting? It would grossly simplify registration processes, such as the one Boxer cites from Florida 2000 that disenfranchised tens of thousands of legal voters. If released felons could vote, Florida’s felon list would never have existed, and never have been loaded with eligible voters.
If you’re a citizen, mentally competent, and 18, you have the right to vote. I have yet to see the compelling state interest in blocking felons from voting.
This is projection on your part–apparently because Republicans only propose a law if it helps them win elections, you assume that this is the rationale behind Clinton and Boxer’s efforts. The idea that it might be the right thing to do REGARDLESS of who they might vote for, doesn’t occur to you I guess.
AssLickingCat@36
“”Because she knows that 99.9 percent of them, would vote Democratic and would be just the boost she needs for her 2008 Presidential bid””
Or maybe its to stop republicans from eliminating voters, the way they did in 2000, by scrubbing every name off the rolls, that even resembled an ex-cons id, especially in counties that traditionally favored dems.
Its all about stopping the republican criminals, it is.
19: druggie ? innocent until proven guilty ! I was merely doing research on what democrats use to remain sane during their conventions. I’ve also found out how lefties do research: they START with the trash.
Listening to the paranoid rants of the Loser Duo (Gored and couldn’t Kerry the party to victory) again are you?
2 40
“I’ve also found out how lefties do research: they START with the trash.” I see you did your research well, because it differs from your show how?
I’m sure your NA sponsor is proud, considering you seem to have forgotten step one.
And no name calling? thats so un-Rush of you.
…but maybe the dope has addled your brain.
March 09, 2004,
Florida Forever
The political urban legend that facts won’t kill.
“ … These myths serve vital partisan imperatives — especially when the policy cupboards of the partisans are bare or vermin-infested. “
“ Even before the last vote had been cast in the 2000 presidential election, activists had descended upon Florida, claiming a widespread conspiracy to disenfranchise black voters. Allegations that state troopers put up roadblocks and checkpoints to prevent blacks from voting were rampant. Dogs and hoses were allegedly used to drive black voters from the polls. Bull Connor’s heirs had been unleashed — all at the direction of Governor Bush and his sidekick, Secretary of State Katherine Harris. “
“ There’s absolutely no evidence that a single person was intimidated, harassed, or prevented from voting by Florida law enforcement. Despite claims of rampant police intimidation and harassment, the only evidence of law-enforcement “misconduct” consisted of just two witnesses who described their perceptions regarding the actions of the Florida Highway Patrol. One of these witnesses testified that he thought it was “unusual” to see an empty patrol car parked outside a polling place. There was no evidence that sight of the vehicle somehow intimidated the witness or any other voters from casting ballots. There was no evidence that the erstwhile occupant of the vehicle harassed voters. There was no evidence that the empty vehicle was there for the purpose of somehow disenfranchising anyone assigned to vote at that location. “
“ There’s no evidence of systematic disenfranchisement of black voters. The myth of a nefarious plot to thwart black voters from casting ballots is wholly unsupported by the evidence. Inconvenience, bureaucratic errors and inefficiencies were indeed pervasive. But these problems don’t rise to the level of invidious discrimination. (There was one case in which a black woman alleged that she was turned away from a poll at closing time whereas a white man wasn’t.) “
“ Much has been made of the “felon purge list”, i.e., a list of those individuals who, under Florida law, were to be barred from voting due to felony convictions (see the “Felon Franchise). The list had been prepared to prevent the kind of fraud that had occurred in the infamous Miami mayoral election in which a number of ineligible felons voted. “
“ The list was inaccurate; it included people who shouldn’t have been on it. Thus, the myth holds that the purge list was somehow a tool to deny blacks the right to vote. “
“ But facts are stubborn things. Whites were actually twice as likely as blacks to be erroneously placed on the list. In fact, an exhaustive study by the Miami Herald concluded that “the biggest problem with the felon list was not that it prevented eligible voters from casting ballots, but that it ended up allowing ineligible voters to cast a ballot” (This quote, as well as many of the facts contained herein, come from Commissioners Abigail Thernstrom’s and Russell Redenbaugh’s dissent to the Commission report.). According to the Palm Beach Post more than 6,500 ineligible felons voted. “
“ State officials were not at fault for widespread voter “disenfranchisement”. The myth holds that Governor Bush, in league with Secretary of State Katherine Harris, either by design or incompetence, failed to fulfill their electoral responsibilities, resulting in the discriminatory disenfranchisement of thousands of black voters. This was purportedly a key to the overarching Republican plot to steal the election from Al Gore. “
“ Again, reality intrudes. The uncontroverted evidence shows that by statute the responsibility for the conduct of elections is in the hands of county supervisors, not the governor or secretary of state. County supervisors are independent officers answerable to county commissioners, not the governor or secretary of state. And in 24 of the 25 counties that had the highest ballot-spoilage rates, the county supervisor was a Democrat. (In the remaining county the supervisor was not a Republican, but an independent.) “
cat @ 44
afraid to cite your source, are you?
For the record, I certainly agree that the Civil Rights Commission may have overstated the disenfranchisement of black voters. However, we weren’t talking about that, were we? We were discussing the disenfranchisement of legal voters listed on the “felons” list, a point your source freely admits.
My citation IS the Civil Right Commision you nitwit.
Do you actually read or just react?
“ But facts are stubborn things. Whites were actually twice as likely as blacks to be erroneously placed on the list. In fact, an exhaustive study by the Miami Herald concluded that �the biggest problem with the felon list was not that it prevented eligible voters from casting ballots, but that it ended up allowing ineligible voters to cast a ballot� (This quote, as well as many of the facts contained herein, come from Commissioners Abigail Thernstrom�s and Russell Redenbaugh�s dissent to the Commission report.). According to the Palm Beach Post more than 6,500 ineligible felons voted. “
On gawd, Flordia AGAIN?!?
Can’t we leave that corpse alone? I just hope the Good Lord can finish what he started last year , and finaly wash that phalic state into the Atlantic!
cat @ 46 really? What report from the Commission does the article you posted appear in? Can you give me the report number and page in which it appears? Which of the Commission members authored the article?
I read it all right, and laughed most of the way through. Yeah, it’s so much worse that 6500 ineligible people voted, than the tens of thousands who were eligible who could not. I assume you’d rather not have your own vote count, than know that some felon voted?
“In 2000, Katherine Harris, Florida Secretary of State, ordered county elections officials to purge 57,000 citizens from voter registries as felons not allowed to vote in Florida. In fact, about 95 percent of these voters were innocent of crimes — but 54 percent were guilty of being African-American.
Harris and the state admit that tens of thousands of black voters had been wronged, and with plantation noblesse have agreed to return them to the voter rolls — at the beginning of 2003 … In 2000, the 180,000 ‘spoiled ballots’ came overwhelmingly from the blackest, poorest, most Democratic counties
“A report by the state Inspector General says that the company ‘bears major responsibility’ for the foul-ups. An ACLU study found that, once again, it was Miami-Dade’s black voters who were disproportionately disenfranchised by ‘lost votes’ … Most troubling of all, some of these practices are going national.”
allhat @ 49
grrr…CITE PLEASE!
will the liberals ever get over Florida? this is so funny. distract from the issue at hand, dean logan and the king ocunty elections department in which he is paid very nicely to run. Sloppy ass return on our money.
Goldy just post these because to him fact come second, sensationalism sells to dim witted, can’t think for themself cronies.
We all know deep down that Felon’s can’t tell the truth and niether can partisan prison guards, why tell the truth if it doesn’t fit your cause? that would be stupid.
Keep printing the fringe stories that support your bloated, ready to explode lies, and go down with the ship if you like.
How’s this whole Rossi criminality angle playing in the, “Daily Dunderhead”?
ready to explode lies(tag aka, Danw(tag
tools @ 52
“dim witted?”
“fact come second”–what is that, Jamaican patois? “Him a gonna come first, fact come second?”
“Felon’s?” Is that someone’s name, and what’s the apostrophe for?
“niether?” spellcheck?
need help with that log in your eye?
SHHHHHH, I think CharredBrainCells, has something to add:
http://www.toilette-humor.com/cartoon.html
Goldy is trying to steal my gig. he has learned how I rile up the troops. but since democrats don’t understand business, Goldy makes zip. and has little time for golf, too !!
Awesome Goldy!
I brought this up a while ago and got flamed for even suggesting that more felons would vote Republican.
This silly stereotype that exists over at Sound Politics that felons vote for Democrats is just a stereotype that only the dumbest of the dumb (i.e. Sound Politics commenters) will fall for. However, the fact that it gets turned into accusations that Democrats actively try to subvert the rules over felons voting as a way to win elections is a very serious charge, and unfortunately, people still take it seriously.
torridjoe @ 55
That’s it, if you can’t refute the comments attack the grammar.
By the way how is your day of soaking up more and more Oregonian tax payer dollars?
thehim @58
you get flamed every time you post.
all tools @ 59, 60
I did attack the comments–you claimed opponents were dim-witted. I wondered on what basis you could afford to make that claim, given your deep difficulties with the English language.
Your comment at 60 is curious. What makes you think you know anything about what my day is like?
I figure the best way to support Goldy is to get him to market these…they are all over Germany, and I’d buy a few.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/03/1728717.php
the feces flags are also going up in PDX:
http://www.blueoregon.com/2005.....r_bus.html
chards @ 15 has lost it. What old growth? There isn’t any unprotected old growth left. Yeah, yeah, blame the enviros for logging restrictions … sure thing. In the 70’s and 80’s loggers were cutting 4 to 5 times as fast as the forests could regrow trees, chards could you please explain how that could have been sustained? At some point, the last standing tree would have been cut. Then there would have been NO forest jobs in this state for the next 50 to 75 years. Managing harvest for sustainability results in fewer jobs, but permanent jobs. Chards, you are dumber than a rock.
Goldy, what’s with the bold? Your web site is broken.
danw @ 24
Chards-of-broken-heart thinks ANYTHING is hot. Anything interested in her, that is. You can’t be choosy when you’re unattractive and desperate for attention. Chards would take a goat, pig, or horse — as long as it’s male. Well, hell, she’ll even take a lezzie goat, pig, or horse if that’s all she can get.
TJ @ 38
You nailed it, Joe. Republicans CAN’T RELATE to doing something for the public good. Their tunnel vision is entirely focused on what helps Republicans obtain and keep two things: (a) Money (b) Power
I see Rossi expressed confidence today the courts would overturn the election. Back in January Rossi expressed confidence he would be sitting in the governor’s chair by now. Rossi is confident of a lot of things he knows little or nothing or about. Don’t get in an airplane with this man just because he expresses confidence in his ability to pilot it.
Alan @ 69
“Despite claiming that the plane was flying at 30,000 feet, Rossi was undercut by Democratic research showing many of those feet to actually be false, and that only around 8,000 of them could be verified.”
Let’s see if we can fix the bold.
Nope. Oh well.
A Democrat shill writes into the paper claiming to be this or that and we are to believe him? It couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that he works for Gregoire now that he would write such a thing could it?
Hey felon: ” I am in charge of your life while you are in prison. You support Rossi right? What was that? You don’t want your dinner for a week? Ok. SO I will put you down for Rossi.”
This fellow must be peeking in the felons ballots if he know so much about how they vote.
Gregoire visits Vancouver, greeted by leaders and protesters
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=74651
key word “PROTESTERS”
That’s some legacy Crissy.
Wow this one is funny. Only in WA. State, do felons vote Republican, while everywhere else they vote >70% DumbocRAPTic?
Good to see Unkl Witz is alive but posting here.
To AllHatAndNoHorse: In Florida 2000, where did all them “spoilt” ballots come from? Dumbocraptic districts run by U people. WHo controls Palm Beach, Broward and Miami Dade? U guys do. Get a life people.
Pudster
puddy @ 76
FINALLY! Someone has voting pattern data on felons! Please, tell me where you happened to find this information–what’s your cite?
ya puddybud, TJ is big on “cites.” it’s a liberal thing.
chardonnay @ 78
so you’re admitting that conservatives may not always be concerned with the facts or the veracity of the material?
I was being sarcastic, anyway. I know as well as you that puddy’s talking out of his ass, because no such statistics exist.
PuddyLicker@CharrdsCrackage,
In Florida 2000, where did all them “spoilt” ballots come from? Dumbocraptic districts run by U people. WHo controls Palm Beach, Broward and Miami Dade? U guys do. Get a life people.
Pudster
Comment by Puddybud
http://www.stat.ufl.edu/~presn.....on2000.pdf
Here, then try this.
Pudlick, you are.
chards @ 51
“will the liberals ever get over Florida?”
Will the rightys ever get over Jane Fonda? That’s your answer. God, you’re stupid, Chards.
All tools @ 51
To people like All tools, nothing is “true” unless it passes the ideological test. Hey tools, gravity doesn’t work anymore. Jump off a cliff and see for yourself!
All tolls @ 59
“That’s it, if you can’t refute the comments attack the grammar.”
The rationale is that people who haven’t mastered grammar haven’t mastered the reasoning process either.
TJ @ 70
We should give Dino a parachute and tell him it’s 8,000 feet to the ground. If he insists it’s 30,000 feet, that’s his business. What will be, will be.
VRWC @ 73
I understand your point of view. I don’t believe GOP shills just because they write in to the paper.
chards @ 75
Of course, this never happens at Bush appearances, because any protestors are immediately arrested by GOP thugs posing as Secret Service agents and hustled off the premises.
The difference between Gregoire and Bush, chards, is:
1. Gregoire believes in free speech
2. Gregoire has a thicker skin
3. Gregoire doesn’t feel threatened by criticism
Puddybud @ 76
What’s your proof the felons voted for Gregoire? Let’s see it. You know what Republicans use to “prove” felons voted for Gregoire? Studies from east coast states that relied on statistical guessing and didn’t even ask felons who they voted for. Remember the old saying, “There’s lies, damned lies, statistics … and then there’s Republicans.”
chards @ 78
Ya chards, it’s called verifying your data, so people know you aren’t lying or just making shit up.
Frankly, I think puddinghead is just making shit up.
Alan@85,
But the GOP schills rarely get published.
81 & 83
Nice! I guess whats good for the goose isn’t as good for the gander after all.
chardonnay @ 51 “will the liberals ever get over Florida?” Eventually we will. They say time heals all wounds…. But then again, you still haven’t warmed up to men again. Will you ever get over being thrown out of your house by 18 different husbands?
Remember? That was on election eve 2004, you only wanted to charge them $1.25 and they still left you cold.
VRWC @ 89
What are you talking about? Conservative letter writers get published in our local papers every day — including today.
you’ve got chards pegged @ 91
Proportional analysis predicts that after 18 in a row, number 19 will throw her out too.
I visited Sound Politics yesterday. Everyone there seems so similar, so focused on one thing – how to remove Christine Gregiore from office. It is very shameful what people will do for policical power. Hopefully, in a few weeks this will all blow over and we can get on with our lives.
Hey HorsesAsses:
I know you guys were thinking I just spout off unsubstantiated facts. Well you left leaning space cadets lookie here:
Ex-felons vote Democrat 70%, university study finds: http://www.asanet.org/media/felons.html
Excerpt: “This is the finding of a study by sociologists Christopher Uggen, University Minnesota, and Jeff Manza, Northwestern University, reported in the most recent issue of the American Sociological Review…. Currently 48 states disenfranchise felons (although ballot restrictions are specific to each state). The incarcerated are primarily the working-class poor and African Americans who traditionally vote Democratic…. Their survey data suggest that Democratic candidates would have received about seven out of every ten votes cast by this disenfranchised population in 14 of the last 15 Senate election years…. …If Congress passes the bill, Democratic electoral gains would be an estimated 1.2 million new voters…”
Now you wonder why these two below said Let ‘Em Vote!:
WASHINGTON – Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a possible White House candidate in 2008, joined 2004 nominee John Kerry and other Democrats Thursday in urging that Election Day be made a federal holiday to encourage voting.
She also pushed for legislation that would allow all ex-felons to vote.
Also, here’s another link to the Hillary wants all ex-felons to be able to vote story as I think the Yahoo ones eventually expire:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....vote_x.htm
Remember for you who truly know your history: Al Gore brought up Willie Horton against Mike Dukakis in 1988 way, way before George H. W. Bush did. Butt no you asseshorses conveniently forget that. Al Gore even admits it was a big mistake to do that butt dems’ (sic intended) de facts.
Then: Why Can’t Ex-Felons Vote?
By Kevin Krajick
Washington Post
Wednesday, August 18, 2004; Page A19
Wow The Washington Post none the less!
http://www.righttovote.org/upl....._UFile.htm
Excerpt: “Some say those who break the law lack the trustworthiness to make it. Todd Gaziano of the Heritage Foundation argues that felons might form some kind of “anti-law-enforcement bloc” and elect bad officials. But last year Alabama Republican Party Chairman Marty Connors stated a bald truth: “As frank as I can be,” he said, “we’re opposed to [restoring voting rights] because felons don’t tend to vote Republican.” He is right: People with low incomes, low education or minority status — all benchmarks of convict populations — vote Democratic 65 to 90 percent of the time.”
Another one:
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....0912/posts
Excerpt:”The Right to Vote Campaign – a coalition that includes the ACLU, NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, People for the America Way and three other organizations” Yeah and all these are Republican organizations?
Another one:http://savannahnow.com/stories.....4639.shtml
Excerpt:”Why don’t we let prisoners vote on lighter sentences or to receive a pay check while they serve? This idea is so dumb, it’s scary. The worst part is it didn’t come from the prisoners – it came from the Democrat leadership.”
Remember: Willie Horton carries a picture of Mike Dukakis in his wallet.
BTW AllHatAndNoHorse: This hetero Pud does lick butt not you bud!
Do you left hemispheric missing Goldy lovers need more info, just respond!!!!!
As always, NUFF SAID!!!!
Pudster
I left a great response but Goldy ate it. I clicked say it, but it didn’t post!!
I know you all thought I had no references. Well lookie here, cause I do. I had more references but Goldy decided to check it out before posting so here is part of the short list. If Goldy has guts he will post my full comments.
http://www.asanet.org/media/felons.html 70% Democratic
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/articles/A9785-2004Aug17.html 65-90% Democratic
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....0912/posts – Read the last line who supported this.
Oh yes finally Remember AL Gore. He first brought up Willie Horton way, way before George Bush 41. Hey hey, Al said he regretted doing that.
As always, NUFF SAID!!!!
Pudster
“It is very shameful what people will do for policical power. Hopefully, in a few weeks this will all blow over and we can get on with our lives.”
Yeah like accepting stolen property (governor’s seat)
All Tools Here @97 – Have you seen “Meet the Fokkers”? That is a really funny movie. Barbara Steisand and whats his name were terrific. Are you anything like Robert DeNiro? He seemed really uptight in that movie, but funny too. You seem kind of uptight but not very funny. Massage therapy and meditation work wonders. You should try some chakra work. You might like it.
Alan:
Ray to Tom Cruise (Show me the Money): “you talk too much.”
and you Alan have nothing valuable to say, nice or otherwise.
Goldy, I have to wonder at your logic:
“Many felons expressed concern that Gregoire might be too tough on them.” Yeah, she was awful tough on her scapegoat in her office just before the election. Luckily they were able to settle out of court so it wouldn’t interfere with more important matters, like STEALING an election.
“Facts lie, and liars have facts.” —“I will NOT raise taxes!”–uh-huh, yeah, right…..9.5Cents gas tax. Talked of raising taxes first day “in office”.
Criminals do not support attorneys general.
“Unless, of course, they are available at a resonable rate and just one of the gang (chain-gang, we hope).
I will never be happier than the day the Mayflower van pulls up in front of the Governors’ mansion and moves the pretender to the throne out!
That’s quite a case you have there, Puddy:
– The oft-quoted and oft-rebutted Uggen and Manza study that relies on a speculative analysis based on felon demographics that may or may not match those in Washington state.
– A broken link to the Washington Post.
– A Freeper rehash of a story that reports on Nebraska restoring felon voting rights, but no analysis of how felons vote. Not that it matters — Nebraska also isn’t Washington.
Like TJ, I’m still waiting for the evidence of Democrat-preference among voting Washington state felons.
P.S. : I’m not sure what Al Gore and Willie Horton have to do with this, but, hey, how can it hurt to add a little extra incoherent rambling to an otherwise specious post?
PROPORTIONAL ANALYSIS BOMBSHELL!!
ROSSI LOSS MARGIN MUCH WIDER THAN SUSPECTED!!
One of the problems with statistical analysis of voting patterns is finding a sample population that is demographically well-matched with the population under study. That’s one reason why studies based on East Coast or nationwide felon demographics cannot be reliably applied to Washington state voting patterns.
Fortunately, I’ve uncovered voting data from a population that almost exactly matches the demographic distribution of the Washington state Nov. 2004 voting cohort. In fact, my detailed analysis and state-of-the-art data mining techniques reveal a match coefficient of 0.99999364 — unheard of in earlier studies. (Don’t even ask how I came up with that number.)
My analysis examined voting patterns for this cohort in a statewide vote for a chief executive branch position and discovered a preference for Democratic candidates over Republicans of 52.8% / 45.6%.
Applying this result to the 2,805,913 votes cast in the similar statewide race for governor, one would expect to find 1,481,522 votes for Gregoire vs. 1,279,496 for Rossi. This gives a margin of victory of 202,026 votes compared to the “reported” margin of only 129 votes.
It has been reported that numerous election errors, illegal voters, and possible fraud have cast doubt on the accuracy of the reported margin of victory. However, earlier estimates of the magnitude of the reporting error have been contradictory and inconclusive. In all previous reports, the estimated “true” margin of victory has been several orders of magnitude smaller than the margin found with my more comprehensive analysis.
My results show that the cumulative statewide effect of election errors and fraud has been to incorrectly credit Rossi with over 100,000 votes that should have been credited to Gregoire.
scottd – I brought information to the table, you say: “The oft-quoted and oft-rebutted Uggen and Manza study that relies on a speculative analysis based on felon demographics that may or may not match those in Washington state.”
Where is the rebut? All I said was that how can you prove WA state is different when the rest of the country acts otherwise.
The WA Post links works just fine. Here is a few words from your normally democratic sponser:
“By Kevin Krajick
Wednesday, August 18, 2004; Page A19
On Election Day it will not matter to some 4.7 million Americans whether they are Republicans, Democrats, independents or whether they have an opinion on anything at all. Under various state laws, they are barred from voting because they have felony records. This includes not just prison inmates (48 states), parolees (33 states) and probationers (29 states) but also a large number of people — one third of the disenfranchised in all — who are off parole and “free.” Minorities are hit particularly hard by these state laws: They deny 13 percent of African American men the vote.
Incarceration in America is up 600 percent since 1974, and the absence of this fast-growing shadow population has been altering the nation’s politics.
The 14th Amendment permits states to deny the vote “for participation in rebellion, or other crime.” And it can be argued that prisoners should not vote; after all, the purpose of prison is to deny freedom. But with ex-cons, the argument shifts.
Some say those who break the law lack the trustworthiness to make it. Todd Gaziano of the Heritage Foundation argues that felons might form some kind of “anti-law-enforcement bloc” and elect bad officials. But last year Alabama Republican Party Chairman Marty Connors stated a bald truth: “As frank as I can be,” he said, “we’re opposed to [restoring voting rights] because felons don’t tend to vote Republican.” He is right: People with low incomes, low education or minority status — all benchmarks of convict populations — vote Democratic 65 to 90 percent of the time. “
Still waiting scottd!
NUFF SAID!!!!
Pudster
Pudster–
You da man!!!!
They asked for it…and they got it.
One area that has yet to be exposed are FEDERAL felony convictions//voters. Wait until that is revealed.
As this election contest drags on…more and more revelations.
Bottom-line is the Dems have some loyalist who cheated, lied and tried to cover-up.
The Feds will come in….after the Election Contest…because there will be plenty of revelations to investigate.
Ooops..
Make that:
“Bottom-line is the Dems have some loyalistS who cheated, lied and tried to cover-up.”
Cite the statistical analysis used to support these figures.
All ive found so far, is a work in progress, not complete, nor verified, but results are an assumption.
These assumptions, are also dependent upon certain percentages of ethinic groups, which may or may not represent the current prison populations in wa. state.
Also, the felon votes present in rossi favored counties, will have an adverse affect on rossi totals, assuming these statistics, relate to the representative prison population in this state.
AllHat@108–
You know for sure that felon votes in Rossi County’s are going to even be considered?
Your brilliant lawyers may have screwed up bigtime dumbass.
Watch for the rulings on Monday.
The Dems may have some serious timing problems.
That will make you LEFTIST PINHEADS go absolutely nuts won’t it??
God, I’d love to see the look on your “puckered” ugly face on Monday. I WILL RUB IT IN!
cynicalpucker@09,
im of the opinion, none of the so called felon votes will be considered.
I think bridges is going to tell them to take a hike.
what you’ll be rubbing, is probably close to what you’re rubbing right now.
i’m looking forward to the walk of shame for rossi.
and you for that matter.
alan/don/cybil/joke @ (?)tired of scrolling up
look at you go. you sure do like me i know you do. One last time donny, I am not going to tell you this again. I do not like angry liberal old pimps. And for the record, I own my house, no one will kick me out.
NoWhores–
Felons are illegal votes. Illegal. Do you know what that means?
So you are saying the Judge will ignore illegal votes? OK.
Those interested in the Uggen and Monza study of the impact of Felon disenfranchisement.
Here are a couple of summaries of the Uggen and Monza study from previous posts, including a complete reference so you can hunt the article down in a College or University Library near you:
http://www.horsesass.org/my-co.....ment-14080
http://www.horsesass.org/my-co.....ment-18963
Mr.Cynical @ 106/107 You stated “Bottom-line is the Dems have some loyalistS who cheated, lied and tried to cover-up.” I have been looking for an appropriate quotation for years to sumarize the ‘advisors and the inner circles’ of Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Bush. You have given me the perfect quote. Wow, never thought I would utter these words Thank You Mr. Cynical
chard @ 111 your work skills are showing through. Everyone knows you worked your career under a liberal pimp. The streets are a tough life. Now the truth comes out on why you cannot find your own man.
Goldy:
Thanks for posting my link after all. I appreciate it.
DJ: Butt, I am still waiting for a real rebuttal. Where is it. Can’t find anything to discredit it as well as the WA Post article? Why is that? I wonder if it is because no one can debunk it except by words?
So there are two links that someone says the number of felons in WA state is 85% white. What does that have anything to do with them being poor and undereducated? Oooohhhh, you overlooked that part of the study. Just like you overlook the incompetence and mishandling and the lies from Dean Logan’s deposition. Hey Goldy, have you posted the full Dean Logan transcript like your “good” friend Stefan Sharkansky did?
Pudster
To: chardonnay is a burnt out dartboard – Well it may be burnt out butt I can still fire the darts at the 50 point bullseye. So you like to live in the past chardonnay? How ’bout the present?
And you probably overlook Hilary and Travelgate, Hilary and FBI Filegate, Hilary and the Jewish Votegate, Hilary and Moneygate. Yeah, want to see those links now?
Give it up. I can sling so much information about Ms. Clinton that you guys will be researching rebuttals for many days. Nothing I quote is lies or innuendo. I use your favorite news dumbocraptic sources, New York Slimes, LA Slimes, (Seattle newspapers don’t deliver news, just tripe!), WA Ghost, Atlanta Urinal and Constipator, Philadephia Inquisitor, etc.
NUFF SAID & Happy Hunting
Pudster
Puddybud @ 116
“I am still waiting for a real rebuttal. . . .”
I was hoping you would have read the subsequent posts (our better yet, the U&M study). The U&M article needs no rebuttal. The authors clearly state their assumptions and the limitations of their study. It is only idiots like you, who have not read the study and misunderstand what is being said.
Uggen and Monza point out that they had to make imperfect inferences [using national age/ethnicity/education, etc. statistics to approximate patterns for (ex)felons] because a better, more direct source of data does not exist. Their inference about the percent Democratic-leaning felons (nationally) is largely a function of 50% blacks in the national felon population. If Washington has only 15% felons, then the proportion of Democratic-leaning felons (in WA) is reduced to something much closer to the white male figure.
There are no validly published scientific studies that show that (ex)felons in Washington are more likely to vote Democratic. The U&M study is based on the questionable assumption that (ex)felons would vote the same as non-felon voters when matched for ethnicity, age, sex, education, etc.
A social scientist may accept such questionable assumptions for asking “what if” questions for the sake of intellectual exploration. No social scientist would accept the validity of applying the results to statistical correction of an election!
The WA Post link does not work, so I cannot comment on it.
pudlick,
all links, rely on the same unverified study.
The original study, was based on a certain prison demographic.
To discredit the allegations, would not be possible, as they are not credible to begin with.
Do you know what unverified means?
assumptions are dangerous.
cynicaltwister,
How many votes are PROVEN to be illegal?
How many are PROVEN to come from rossi voters?
Small numbers of errors, are common, and found in every election in the u.s.
errors need to equal more than 2%, to be greater than average.
dj@18,
I tried to point out the assumptions made in the study, but he thinks he found a “bombshell”.
Too much time at unsoundpolitics, he spends.
his wa. post link, is nothing more than a reflection on the erroneous info, referred to in the other links.
He could have posted one link, and covered all “evidence” he had.
Puddy, buddy: I’m not your Google monkey. However, dj provides an excellent rebuttal to the Uggen and Manza study including a suggestion to read the article itself and understand the authors’ own discussion of the limitations of their approach.
And, as dj helpfully confirms, the link you provided to the WP article does not work — maybe it’s not your fault, but it is a fact. However, with the excerpt you provided, I was able to track down the story through other means. It does nothing to bolster your case. All it provides is an unsubstantiated assertion from a guest opinion writer that low income/low education minority people tend to vote Democratic “65 to 90 percent of the time”. It provides no analysis of how released felon populations vote, particularly those in Washington state. If you don’t understand why that matters, you have no business throwing around statistical arguments.
My comment @ 103 best sums up the argument against statistical analysis as a reliable predictor of voting outcomes. The basic point is this: If such a thing were possible, we could eliminate the need to hold elections altogether — all we would need would be a statistical analysis based on the demographic composition of the registered voter pool to tell us who should be placed into office.
Of course, that’s ridiculous, but at the very least, we should be able to more accurately predict the outcome of elections. Yet, time and again, such predictions have proven to be wrong, particularly in the case of close elections. The statistical case becomes even rockier when we try to predict the voting distribution in small populations such as the group of several hundred illegal voters claimed by the Republicans.
scottd@21
and also exit polls.
and also exit polls. -Comment by AllHatAndNoHorse— 4/28/05 @ 9:11 am
And we know how accurate THEY are… just ask Kerry!
Glad to have you on board, CAT. Maybe you can put in a word to your nuttier friends :-)
NotSoCatlike@23,
yes, you got the point, very good.
maybe try something more difficult, we should.
actually, exit polls are VERY accurate–which is why it’s so strange that 2004’s were off.
pud–perhaps you should have read my request more closely:
“FINALLY! Someone has voting pattern data on felons! ”
The study you cite admits up front that they have NO data on felon voting patterns. None. In other words, there is not a whit of empirical evidence used in their study. Their premise is that felons, mostly being poor, minority and male, will vote like other poor male minorities. What they ignore is the strong possibility that they will vote like OTHER FELONS, regardless of race or economy.
Been busy all. I did read the study, and I did think about their conclusions. That’s why I brought more ammunition to the argument. You guys seem to gloss over the other part of my argument. If the demographics are so wrong, why does Hilary, Kerry, the Democrats in state houses, and the People for the American Way want felons to vote? Because they know they are their voters. Otherwise, your lack of intelligence continues to impress me.
Now WA state. The other part of the study and the WA Post article said poor, uneducated people vote Democratic. So in WA state, there are no poor uneducated white peeps? Well, I didn’t realize when I moved here that all the 85% whites here are college edumicated!!! Wow, I guess my college education proved me wrong where a whole bunch of rich whites and blacks dropped out. Must be the wonderful school system here gets everyone into college. But then explain those intelligent ones who killed that Rachel girl in the woods outside of Skykomish. They weren’t college educated. Or the ones who killed that teenager in Everett, they weren’t college educated.
NUFF SAID!!!!
Puster
Pudster
Goldy, I didn’t swear in my last message, but it seems when I put Kerry and Hilary in the same post your blog checker holds my message. Why is that? Is Hilary your girl in 2008?
Pudster
Since my message is not being posted, I’ll ask again: If the felons do not vote for Democrats, why are Hilary, Kerry and People “Not” For the American Way (Democrats) want felons to be able to vote? Maybe they know something you liberal WA peeps don’t want to admit? Hmmm….
Pudster
Puddybud @ 128
I realize that this might be very hard for you to understand, but some politicians may genuinely feel that people ought to be able to fully participate in our Democracy again after paying their debt to society. This JUST MAY NOT be about political gain. It may be about doing the right (correct) thing!
What would Jesus do?