Rosa Parks has died at age 92.
Speaking in 1992, she said history too often maintains “that my feet were hurting and I didn’t know why I refused to stand up when they told me. But the real reason of my not standing up was I felt that I had a right to be treated as any other passenger. We had endured that kind of treatment for too long.”
Her arrest triggered a 381-day boycott of the bus system organized by a then little-known Baptist minister, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., who later earned the Nobel Peace Prize for his work.
“At the time I was arrested I had no idea it would turn into this,” Mrs. Parks said 30 years later. “It was just a day like any other day. The only thing that made it significant was that the masses of the people joined in.”
A simple act of defiance by an ordinary person can change the world.
‘A simple act of defiance by an ordinary person can change the world.’
The results of her staged event were positive. It just takes some of the impact out of it when a single person like Parks or Roe become pawns of groups with purely political motives.
May she rest in peace.
It’s too bad that the cause started by Ms Parks and by Dr. King has been hijacked into today’s “diversity” movement that is so counterproductive and divisive. Racial preferences are NOT what either of them had in mind. Today’s black leaders should be ashamed of themselves.
Keep goin’ guys…yer diggin’ a real nice hole for yourselves.
OK Rujax – Enlighten us knuckle draggers. Justify racial preferences on moral grounds.
These comments above prove we still have a long ways to go.
Mark The Redneck-4 ‘Enlighten us..’
Do not get your hopes up. The lefties only have name-calling in their quivers. It makes them feeeel better.
nytimes.com:
October 25, 2005
Cheney Told Aide of C.I.A. Officer, Lawyers Report
By DAVID JOHNSTON, RICHARD W. STEVENSON and DOUGLAS JEHL
This article is by David Johnston, Richard W. Stevenson and Douglas Jehl.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 – I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.
Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby’s testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.
The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.
Lawyers involved in the case, who described the notes to The New York Times, said they showed that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.
Mr. Libby’s notes indicate that Mr. Cheney had gotten his information about Ms. Wilson from George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence, in response to questions from the vice president about Mr. Wilson. But they contain no suggestion that either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby knew at the time of Ms. Wilson’s undercover status or that her identity was classified. Disclosing a covert agent’s identity can be a crime, but only if the person who discloses it knows the agent’s undercover status.
It would not be illegal for either Mr. Cheney or Mr. Libby, both of whom are presumably cleared to know the government’s deepest secrets, to discuss a C.I.A. officer or her link to a critic of the administration. But any effort by Mr. Libby to steer investigators away from his conversation with Mr. Cheney could be considered by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, to be an illegal effort to impede the inquiry.
White House officials did not respond to requests for comment, and Mr. Libby’s lawyer, Joseph Tate, would not comment on Mr. Libby’s legal status. Randall Samborn, a spokesman for Mr. Fitzgerald, declined to comment on the case.
Mr. Fitzgerald is expected to decide whether to bring charges in the case by Friday, when the term of the grand jury expires. Mr. Libby and Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser, both face the possibility of indictment, lawyers involved in the case have said. It is not publicly known whether other officials also face indictment.
The notes help explain the legal difficulties facing Mr. Libby. Lawyers in the case said Mr. Libby testified to the grand jury that he had first heard from journalists that Ms. Wilson may have had a role in dispatching her husband on a C.I.A.-sponsored mission to Africa in 2002 in search of evidence that Iraq had acquired nuclear material there for its weapons program.
But the notes, now in Mr. Fitzgerald’s possession, also indicate that Mr. Libby first heard about Ms. Wilson – who is also known by her maiden name, Valerie Plame – from Mr. Cheney. That apparent discrepancy in his testimony suggests why prosecutors are weighing false statement charges against him in what they interpret as an effort by Mr. Libby to protect Mr. Cheney from scrutiny, the lawyers said.
It is not clear why Mr. Libby would have suggested to the grand jury that he might have learned about Ms. Wilson from journalists if he was aware that Mr. Fitzgerald had obtained the notes of the conversation with Mr. Cheney or might do so. At the beginning of the investigation, Mr. Bush pledged the White House’s full cooperation and instructed aides to provide Mr. Fitzgerald with any information he sought.
The notes do not show that Mr. Cheney knew the name of Mr. Wilson’s wife. But they do show that Mr. Cheney did know and told Mr. Libby that Ms. Wilson was employed by the Central Intelligence Agency and that she may have helped arrange her husband’s trip.
Some lawyers in the case have said Mr. Fitzgerald may face obstacles in bringing a false-statement charge against Mr. Libby. They said it could be difficult to prove that he intentionally sought to mislead the grand jury.
Lawyers involved in the case said they had no indication that Mr. Fitzgerald was considering charging Mr. Cheney with wrongdoing. Mr. Cheney was interviewed under oath by Mr. Fitzgerald last year. It is not known what the vice president told Mr. Fitzgerald about the conversation with Mr. Libby or when Mr. Fitzgerald first learned of it.
But the evidence of Mr. Cheney’s direct involvement in the effort to learn more about Mr. Wilson is sure to intensify the political pressure on the White House in a week of high anxiety among Republicans about the potential for the case to deal a sharp blow to Mr. Bush’s presidency.
Mr. Tenet was not available for comment Monday night. But another former senior intelligence official said Mr. Tenet had been interviewed by the special prosecutor and his staff in early 2004, and never appeared before the grand jury. Mr. Tenet has not talked since then to the prosecutors, the former official said.
The former official said he strongly doubted that the White House learned about Ms. Wilson from Mr. Tenet.
On Monday, Mr. Rove and Mr. Libby both attended a cabinet meeting with Mr. Bush as the White House continued trying to portray business as usual. But the assumption among White House officials is that anyone who is indicted will step aside.
On June 12, 2003, the day of the conversation between Mr. Cheney and Mr. Libby, The Washington Post published a front-page article reporting that the C.I.A. had sent a retired American diplomat to Niger in February 2002 to investigate claims that Iraq had been seeking to buy uranium there. The article did not name the diplomat, who turned out to be Mr. Wilson, but it reported that his mission had not corroborated a claim about Iraq’s pursuit of nuclear material that the White House had subsequently used in Mr. Bush’s 2003 State of the Union address.
An earlier anonymous reference to Mr. Wilson and his mission to Africa had appeared in a column by Nicholas D. Kristof in The New York Times on May 6, 2003. Mr. Wilson went public with his conclusion that the White House had “twisted” the intelligence about Iraq’s pursuit of nuclear material on July 6, 2003, in an Op-Ed article in The New York Times.
The note written by Mr. Libby will be a crucial piece of evidence in a false-statement case against him if Mr. Fitzgerald decides to pursue it, lawyers in the case said. It also explains why Mr. Fitzgerald waged a long legal battle to obtain the testimony of reporters who were known to have talked to Mr. Libby.
The reporters involved have said that they did not supply Mr. Libby with details about Mr. Wilson and his wife. Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, in his account of a deposition on the subject, wrote that he asked Mr. Libby whether he had even heard that Ms. Wilson had a role in sending her husband to Africa. Mr. Cooper said that Mr. Libby did not use Ms. Wilson’s name but replied, “Yeah, I’ve heard that too.”
In her testimony to the grand jury, Judith Miller, a reporter for The New York Times, said Mr. Libby sought from the start of her three conversations with him to “insulate his boss from Mr. Wilson’s charges.”
Mr. Fitzgerald asked questions about Mr. Cheney, Ms. Miller said. “He asked, for example, if Mr. Libby ever indicated whether Mr. Cheney had approved of his interview with me or was aware of them,” Ms. Miller said. “The answer was no.”
In addition to Mr. Cooper and Ms. Miller, Mr. Fitzgerald is known to have interviewed three other journalists who spoke to Mr. Libby during June and July 2003. They were Walter Pincus and Glenn Kessler of The Washington Post and Tim Russert of NBC News.
Mr. Pincus and Mr. Kessler have said that Mr. Libby did not discuss Mr. Wilson’s wife with them in their conversations during the period. Mr. Russert, in a statement, declined to say exactly what he discussed with Mr. Libby, but said he first learned the identity of Mr. Wilson’s wife in the column by Mr. Novak.
Rob Holland-5 ‘These comments above prove we still have a long ways to go.’
It will be hard to brainwash everyone with lefty hogwash. The civil right movement has been highjacked, and as soon as more people realize they are better off outside the modern implementation the dems will be toast. Best of luck anyway.
In a recent New Yorker magazine, an article about Ivy League college entrance qualifications, (Yale, Princeton and Harvard, etc), enacted in the 1920’s during the ‘Jew crisis’ (22% entrants Jewish), explained how the rules were changed to place ‘personality’, ‘athleticism’, ‘extra-curricular activities’ equally alongside educational measurements. See, the sons of the rich elite did not meaure up well as the commoners, so the rules were changed in white man’s favor and remain in place today. Perhaps ‘racial preference’ qualifications were established to allow people who’s skin is a different color the same opportunity as white-skinned, silver spoon frat boys?
Rest in Peace, Rosa.
Rot in Hell, MTR and Yearight.
The Rosa Parks story is frequently taken out of context, and there is a misimpression that it just happened one day out of the blue. Parks earned her renown after years of involvement. From Paul Loeb’s article:
[the] familiar rendition of her story had stripped the Montgomery, Ala., boycott of its most important context. Before refusing to give up her bus seat, Parks had spent 12 years helping lead the local NAACP chapter. The summer before, Parks had attended a 10-day training session at Tennessee’s labor and civil rights organizing school, the Highlander Center, where she’d met an older generation of civil rights activists and discussed the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision banning “separate but equal” schools.
In other words, Parks didn’t come out of nowhere. She didn’t single-handedly give birth to the civil rights efforts. Instead, she was part of an existing movement for change at a time when success was far from certain.
This in no way diminishes the power and historical importance of her refusal to give up her seat. But it does remind us that this tremendously consequential act might never have taken place without the humble and frustrating work that she and others did earlier on. It reminds us that her initial step of getting involved was just as courageous and critical as the fabled moment when she refused to move to the back of the bus.
You said it David and Donnageddon, Rosa, rest in peace.
And thank you from the entirety of the human community.
Choosing Hope
Here’s the link toPaul Loeb’s article which I mangled in the last comment.
Donnageddon-11
Take a pill, have some more kool-aid…relax.
Notice how the right wingers are the ones who are always trying to serve kool-aid.
I don’t need your right wing cyanide laced Kool Aid yearight.
And for you to call the civil rights movement “groups with purely political motives.” and a “shame” gains you entrance to the lowest levels of Hell.
Too bad the Republicans’ “southern strategy” didn’t totally work.
If it had, they would have offed Rosa Parks a long time ago.
She was getting in the way.
Just ask Rush Limbaugh: http://mediamatters.org/items/200507140004
Something tells me MarktheRedneck and yearight were enthusiastic supporters of Limbaugh’s “southern strategy.”
Why do you think black conservatives are as hard to come by as Christian intellectuals?
Donnageddon-16 ‘And for you to call the civil rights movement..’
Are you saying Rosa Parks fit the romanticized Goldy version of “A simple act of defiance by an ordinary person can change the world”, as opposed to an organized stunt? It is the propaganda aspect I demeaned, not the civil rights movement. The problem is that propaganda has become the means by which the left operates. You proved my point tonight – thanks.
Rot in Hell, yearight. May the future urinate on your grave.
And if you don’t believe me, just check out the banner advertisement you get when searching for “David Irons” at WhiteFlight.com…I’m sorry…..SoundPolitics.com: http://www.republicanpeoplemeet.com
Try it yourself! The Master Race will be happy you did: http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004371.html
Donnageddon-20
Not even a justification for the propaganda stunt? Talk about religious zealotry. All hate and no substance.
Rot in Hell, yearight. You are beyond redemption.
The fact yearight characterized Rosa Parks’ legacy as an “organized stunt” should give him “Employee of The Month” award over at Sound Politics. Should fit right in with Sharkansky’s “Robert Mugabe = Ron Sims” posts, and the rest of those neo-nazis claiming Sims should be “tarred and feathered” and “strung up.” Talk about sickos.
If you ever doubted today’s modern hardcore conservative was a racist, I would invite you to peruse soundpolitics.com. Spend five minutes reading these neo-racists’ views, and you will be convinced – indeed – that “we have a long way to go.”
Actually, we would have a “short way” to go if the Sound Politics cretins were to find some libertarian enclave/island to retreat to. Good luck that ever happening. Anybody want to start a donation jar?
I do not believe in reincarnation, but I love to imagine yearight being born in a world where the color of his skin enslaved and oppressed people who looked like him for hundreds of years.
Only to have an asshole like yearight proclaim the event that rallied people to begion to overcome this racist oppression as a “publicity stunt”.
Then I imagine him being hung on a tree, and his family killed.
That is not hate, yearight.
That is Karmic justice.
You asshole.
God Bless ya Rosa,
Its too bad the righties can’t stop a moment and just respect her passing. It doesn’t mean you like affirmitive action or quotas if you take a thread off, fellas.
Roger Rabbit is on vacation. This is an automated message. Hey, Bush takes 3 vacations a month, so why shouldn’t Roger Rabbit take 3 vacations a month too? Why should only Republicans get 3 vacations a month?
Hey yearight, how are things at the Klan?
It makes me think:
Righties have a tough time understanding why the civil rights movement is important, and why black folks tend to vote Democratic. See, black folks in the South were subjected to systematic brutal repression, which was promilgated by a society that was set against them. The conservative world view is based on the assumption that all individuals have an equal shot at success. This view doesn’t jibe with reality when it comes to black folks in the south, who were denied the tools to succeed in America until only recently. LBJ and Bobby Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey and other liberal democrats made civil rights for all part of the party platform. Black folks (generalization ofcourse) see government as a force that ensures their liberty, as opposed to conservatives who see it as limiting freedom.
Hello.
My only hope is that Rosa, the personification of the fight for equality and harmony, passed away without seeing the shameful, rascist diatribe of Dr. Kamau Kambon broadcast on C-Span. It would have broke her heart.
She showed us that a single person can change the world, that the meek CAN become the mighty and move mountains. It is a shame that some people tarnish all she and others fought for.
I am not trying to politicize or antagonize anyone here in honor of Rosa, but I just hope people can see there are right ways and wrong ways to deal with race relations. Rosa did it right. I’ll let this article show how it is done wrong:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/.....E_ID=46992
I personally hope everyone here is as outraged as I am over this, that we can all unite in stopping this kind of hatred in the world.
Domo.
Goldy ain’t no Rosa Parks….
He’s a SHITSQUAD Captain of the S.S. Sims that has signaled the distress signal….Mayday, Mayday…Abandoned Ship.
Rosa Parks was effective because she respectfully stood up for what was right..
Goldy launches turds, rakes muck and uses bullshit to try and destroy someones credibility with an 11th hour attack the day the Absentee Ballots go out.
Goldy ain’t no Rosa Parks!
Rest in peace, Rosa.
The truth is apparently somewhere in between, folks:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/25/34313/055.
“Her arrest triggered a 381-day boycott of the bus system organized by a then little-known Baptist minister, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr”
The boycott is still in effect in the Seattle-Tacoma area judging from the empty transit busses driving around!
Chuck–
That’s a good one!
There philosophy is “make the busses available and EVENTUALLY people will ride”.
When is EVENTUALLY?????
So what is the moral justification for the south being solidly GOP these days? Rest in peace, Rosa Parks.
Rest in peace, Ms. Parks. And do it where ever you damn well please. You’ve earned it.
Are you saying Rosa Parks fit the romanticized Goldy version of “A simple act of defiance by an ordinary person can change the world”, as opposed to an organized stunt?
Are you saying ordinary people can’t be organized? Are you saying organized ordinary people can’t change the world?
MTR and Yearight: I know that you learned that stuff about Rosa Parks from Cedrick the Entertainer. She sat at the front of the bus 50+ years ago. But your accomplishment surpasses hers in that you’re STILL riding. Why don’t you get over your envy of black people and their successful campaign for equal treatment?If there were fewer rich, dumb crackers getting in to the Ivy League because of their money and connections, maybe there’d be more room for smart, poor crackers like yourselves. Why don’t you resent the class that’s really standing on your neck?
After reading Goldy’s blog for several months, I’ve come to the conclusion that Goldy’s modus operendi is to put something up on the site to still comments. Then, without fail, the usual suspects from the left and right start attacking each other on a petty and personal level.
Both left and right are consumed by their devotions to their ideologies at the risk of forgetting to think independently.
A LIBERTARIAN is accusing others of being too devoted to their ideology? That’s a laugh. Why don’t you go away and legalize heroin or something.
39
Thanks for proving the point!
You’re no “libertarian”.
You’re just another righty shill.
Interestingly enough…
I would bet that there is not one black person on this board,
This is just another case of Goldy ( A white jew) trying to steal someone elses cause.
Ben in Redmond-22 ‘The truth is apparently somewhere in between..’
The truth is never received well by the HA “team”. Thanks anyway.
rujax206:
I vote for Libertarian candidates, register as a Libertarian, and support smaller government, individual rights and individual responsibilites. I don’t know what else I can do to convince everyone that I’m a Libertarian.
prriss @ 42 “Goldy trying to steal someone elses cause.”
And how is “Civil Rights” anything other than EVERYONES cause?
prr re #42: I hope you drown yourself in that hateful, acidic,greenrighty bile you’re always spewing. This is about honoring the memory of Rosa Parks, not your CLOWNBOY righty talking points.
re 44: Be against multinational corporations and the way they smother freedom.
Donna & Apache…
Are you Black?
If not, the what the fuck does this have to do with you?
Apache Fog-37 ‘Why don’t you resent the class that’s really standing on your neck?’
I do not resent anyone. I am all for college entrance standards being primarily academic.
yearight@49
Absolutely.
Give credit to merit for meits sake, not some Bull Shit liberal agenda.
wow… just when you think the righties can’t surprise you any more…
Whats so scary about Rosa Parks that you feel the need to malign her… 50 years later? Ya think integration was a bad thing… is that it? Do you really believe the Trent Lott line… “If the rest of the country had voted the way Mississippi did (for segregation), then we wouldn’t have so many problems today…” Is that it?
Whats wrong with you people?
and lib: Your ‘libertarian’ credentials would stand up better if you didn’t constantly shill for these people. The trick is to distance yourself from the left and the right!
Who is maligning her?
I’m sying that this is a day of mourning for Black Americans, whereas weasels such as Goldy try and jump on this band wagon for some unknown cause.
There is no doubt that she is an ordinary woman who got fed up, and her actions inspired many to come forward and correct an injustice.
let’s also remember today who was behind the clan, Southern Politics, etc…
Southern Democrats.
Hey windie,
I think I keep my distance from both sides well enough.
BTW, how have you been lately?
prriss @ 48 “Are you Black?
If not, the what the fuck does this have to do with you?”
prriss I know this may be difficult for you to get into your sour mind, but being black means you have more melatonin in your epidermus than pinker people.
“Black” people are not another race, they are not another species, any more than people with freckles are another race, or another species.. They are just people just like me and you. And I mean EXACTLY like me and you.
So you believe the “cause” to overcome bigotry and oppression based on the amount of melatonin in you epidermis is not EVERYONE’s cause.
If so, you are as bigoted and as stupid as they come.
Rot in Hell with yearight and MTR.
I will outlive you sorry excuses for humanity, and I WILL find your grave and pee on it.
You asshole.
@53 doin’ alright.
Fighting for Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, and all that :)
And I hope I don’t seem overly hostile… Its probably just that we see you attacking the left alot, but rarely see you attacking the right… I know that doesn’t necessarily mean you like them. Hell, at least you talk like a normal person, not some script filled with troll-phrases.
prr@52
“Southern Democrats”
You mean Trent Lott, Strom Thurman…
See a pattern here?
For you historically, willfully ignorant righties:
Southern Democrats—>Dixiecrats—>Republicans
Why’d they do that? Because Johnson signed in the civil rights act, and Nixon reached out to them.
Quit fooling yourselves.
prr@52
And of course the Southern Democrats…”Dixicrats”…all became Republicans so they could pursue their policies of racial exclusion in among a more “tolerant” political organization. Thus was born Nixon’s Southern Strategy…Reagan giving a “States Rights” speech in Philadelphia in 1980 to start his successful Presidential campaign…and Bush Sr.’s “Willie Horton”.
Yep…REALLY “big tent” you goopers got there. You can be any color you want…long as it’s white.
@ 54 epidermus = epidermis
Melatonin – melanin
mea culpa
prr @ 52
You truly are a dumb FUCK!!
Do some basic reading in contemporary American History.
I was going to lay out the history for you as I did Puddybud and his racist enabler pal PacMan, but, just as it was lost on them, it would lost on you too. The reason? You chose to be ignorant instead of informed.
In that scenario, no matter how much truth and historical fact is passed you way you’re still going to focus on the label “Southern Democrat” and equate it to today’s Democratic party. Which it is not. Southern Democrats, or more accurately, Dixiecrats, are the forefathers of modern day Conservatism.
Let me add to Windie’s list at 55: Ronald Regan. Read his speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi regarding “States Rights.” Understand what that terminology meant, AND, and, do your homework to understand the significance of giving the speech in Philadelphia, MS.
You fucking jerk off moron.
I see the Democrats are far more informed on Southern politics than Republicans as they relate to racism.
Hmmmm. . .why is that?
Ahh the lefty tools are in full force this morning….
GBS,
here is your answer.
Because the democrats are racist.
prr
You might also want to do some reading on Barry Goldwater. You ignorant male slut.
prriss @ 61 “Because the democrats are racist.
Comment by prr”
Ah, but your not black prriss, what the fuck do you care.
You hypocritical racist dumbfuck.
How am I a racist?
prr, do something you’ve obviously never done before. Do some reading of truth to educate yourself.
You fucking numb nuts
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....02342.html
http://www.usatoday.com/printe.....15.art.htm
@ 64
At the very least, you’re fucking stupid beyond belief.
GBS…
Fuck off with your left wing propoganda
I’m not a hypocrit nor Am I racist.
You on the other hand are an absolute tool
GBS@58…
BTW, I’d be happy to discuss the politics and history of Neshoba Coubty, MS any time you want. However, you should go do some research before you open up that dialogue you ignorant jackass.
prriss, you ignorant moron. The mere fact that you believe civil rights is a “black” only issue makes you a racist.
No ifs ands or buts.
The fact that you consider the civil rights campaign is a “publicity stunt” makes you a racist.
the fact that you call others racists makes you a hypocrite
Every other word you type makes you a complete moron.
hey, PRR: Why are you working so hard at making people mad at you today?
Do you find pissing people off empowering?
I congradulate you on your ‘google’ skills though!
First off you idiot,
Rosa Parks Dying is not civil rights issue. Rosa Parks is nothing more than a figure in the community that others have used as a spring board for the Civil Rights Movement.
As for being racist, I’ll bring this up with my Black friends & neighbors and see if they support you claim, I’m going to gues that as I and my wife referred to as “good people”, that more than likely, you are wrong.
As for being a hypocrit, I see no evidence of that.
As for being a Moron, considering the company on this board, any insult passed my way is welcome. Quite Frankly, I consider most on this board the absolute scum of the earth.
Windie…
As to the Google Skills, I would imagine that you are referring to the Neshoba County Comment.
Nope, I have very good friends in Philadelphia and have been down for the Neshoba Couty Fair on quite a few occassions and know the area, politics and History very well.
Windie,
Yeah, I guess i appear to mouth-off more on this blog, but the only other blog I read hasn’t had much interesting stuff on it lately.
prr @ 67
It’s not left wing propoganda, it’s history. You fucking idiot.
Although, truth and left wing talking points go hand in hand, unlike your right wing bull shit you spew.
prr
BTW fire away with your oh so vast knowledge of history and politics.
This ought to be interesting. And funny.
Hows this for a start….
Rosa Park has nothing to do with the city Phildelphia, MS
prr@various
lets see: I love the ‘my black friends’ excuse on an anonymous board! Its so convincing! The problem there, of course is your difficulty with the truth.
Same with your Philadelphia, MS stuff. I just can’t get over the impression that you’d do *anything* to win.
And Windie…
I love the fact that your Dad is a retired navy Captain who somehow ended up witha liberal daughter.
He must just hang his head in shame.
As for my “doing” anything, you mean like treating all people equally?
I have no problem with that and encourgae the behavior. Howevber, the double standard created by liberals is a joke. Affirmative action is nothing more than anti-white policies.
-let’s also remember today who was behind the clan, Southern Politics, etc…Southern Democrats. –
Oops! PRR just forgot to mention the part about the GOP picking up where the Democrats left off once LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. A slight oversight.
So we have a couple right wing trolls praising Parks (weird to see Mr. Cynical sound like a commie pinko, isn’t it), and a couple calling her act of defiance “a stunt.” Which one is it, clowns? Time to get your story straight. Check in with Fuhrer Limbaugh: he’ll set you straight! Rush wants the GOP to continue pursuing racial division, White Pride style!
Still getting a kick watching these fake Democrats like LeftBehind try to pretend they’re somebody they never have been. It would be like me walking into a KKK meeting, and trying to pretend I can walk and talk like them. Very entertaining, trolls.
prriss @ 72 You seem to excel at obsfucation and bait and switch. A standard approach to honest debate in every Neo-Con handbook.
“Rosa Parks Dying is not civil rights issue.” Correct. And I never said it was. Moron.
“As for being racist, I’ll bring this up with my Black friends & neighbors and see if they support you claim, I’m going to gues that as I and my wife referred to as “good people”, that more than likely, you are wrong.”
Obsfucation. Perhaps, if you do have black neighbors, they might just say that. But the ascertion that you are a racist remains true: @ 48 your racist ass said
“Are you Black?
If not, the what the fuck does this have to do with you?â€
“As for being a hypocrit, I see no evidence of that.”
As you are obviously a racist (no matter what your, most likely fictional black neighbors, may say) calling anyone else a racist makes you a hypocrit.
“As for being a Moron, considering the company on this board, any insult passed my way is welcome.”
Glad you like it Moron!
Donna you fucking idiot….
You keep beating this horse that i am a racist.
Where is the evidence of this?
Show me one thing I’ve said that is racist?
““Are you Black?
If not, the what the fuck does this have to do with you?â€
prriss, if you do not have the intellect to see that this is an ASTOUNDINGLY racist comment.
Then continue to liove in ignorance.
Why, because B said the word Black?
Grow the fuck up, you politically correct panty waste?
Ever hear of Ethnic Pride.
Here’s a newsflash. Rosa Parks was a black woman and the black community is mourning her loss.
and… Oh my God, you may want to look at this racist website that uses the term black as well ( http://www.blackdollar.org )
No you racist twit! It is because you split civil rights into a “Black” issue. And that no one who is not “Black” should be interested in it.
It is a HUMAN issue you befuddled no nothing. It has nothing to do with “Political Correctness” I despise Political Correctness.
And I despise people who want to divide people into convinient boxes and say, only one box an care about what is everyone’s problem.
You fucking racist idiot!
That I would even have to explain to you such a simple and obvious concept demonstrates beyond the bounds of doubt that you live in the 17th century, and find comfort suckling you bountiful prejudice.
Donnageddon
Give me a break you pathetic liberal CUNT
I will not be kept from fighting for civil rights due to the amount of melanin in my skin, prriss. Not by your drunken ass. Not by anyone.
And thanks for that last epitaph. Real classy of you.
epithet
Damn.
kitten noise @ 87
Why should anyone give you a break? Because you find the exposure of your bigotry to be discomforting? Try shedding the bigotry, and you’ll likely find that you’re more comfortable in your own company.
By the way, I notice that you’ve spent so much time spewing righteous indignation over Donnageddon’s remarks that you’ve not responded to GBS’ call to discuss the particulas of Neshoba Country history and politics. Did you think the righteous indigation would cause us to lose sight of the fact that GBS has called your bluff, and that you’re not holding any cards?
Rick,
Seems to me that last thing said on the sunject was a post by me explaing to the jackass that Rosa Parks had nothing to do with Philadelphia MS.
As to Donna’s remarks.
This is pure liberal crap, Rosa parks is remembered as a proud black women,not as a liberal trophy
prriss, “As to Donna’s remarks.
This is pure liberal crap, Rosa parks is remembered as a proud black women,not as a liberal trophy”
Obsfucation and lies. I never claimed her to be a liberal trophy.
And You are still a racist.
you are still a liberal CUNT
prr, YOU DUMB FUCK!!
I see this is going to be worse than discussing politics with Puddybud. I’m going to have to EXPLAIN everything and point out the obvious to prr. Which really s l o w s down the process of debate. So, let me cut and paste for prr.
GBS @ 58 wrote:
“Let me add to Windie’s list at 55: Ronald Regan. Read his speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi regarding “States Rights.” Understand what that terminology meant, AND, and, do your homework to understand the significance of giving the speech in Philadelphia, MS.”
prr @ 69 had this snappy comeback:
“BTW, I’d be happy to discuss the politics and history of Neshoba Coubty, MS any time you want. However, you should go do some research before you open up that dialogue you ignorant jackass.
Comment by prr— 10/25/05 @ 10:48 am”
GBS @ 76 intellectually challenges prr again:
“BTW fire away with your oh so vast knowledge of history and politics.
This ought to be interesting. And funny.
Comment by GBS— 10/25/05 @ 11:44 am”
And. . .
prr replies @ 77 with this gem.
“Hows this for a start….
Rosa Park has nothing to do with the city Phildelphia, MS
Comment by prr— 10/25/05 @ 11:46 am”
GBS snickers the stupidity of prr’s comment.
Then, Rick @ 90 asks prr:
“By the way, I notice that you’ve spent so much time spewing righteous indignation over Donnageddon’s remarks that you’ve not responded to GBS’ call to discuss the particulas of Neshoba Country history and politics. Did you think the righteous indigation would cause us to lose sight of the fact that GBS has called your bluff, and that you’re not holding any cards?
Comment by Rick Schaut— 10/25/05 @ 2:00 pm”
Which prr replies @ 91
“Seems to me that last thing said on the sunject was a post by me explaing to the jackass that Rosa Parks had nothing to do with Philadelphia MS”
See, prr, the whole thing was about you looking at one of your iconic figures, i.e. Ronald Regan, and digest his “States Rights” speech in Philadelphia, MS. Specifically, I posed the question as Regan’s meanings of States Rights, AND, and why was it significant to deliver that speech in Philadelphia, MS.
You are so pathetic, prr, that you somehow equated that to Rosa Parks in Philadelphia, MS. The question wasn’t about Rosa Parks, it has to do with the development of the modern day conservative movement and the men who led that charge.
You are one FUCKING STUPID, TYPICAL, RIGHT WING, UNPATRIOTIC, UN-AMERICAN FOOL!!
It’s people like you who get all fired up about the bad Liberals you “hear” about from your drug lord, Rush Limbaugh, and ignore American history, then post here like some authoritarian.
You are more of an enemy to freedom and democracy then all the terrorists combined. I say that because through your right to vote you can do more to change this country than our enemies. And through your ignorance you’ll support people like Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Frist, DeLay and the rest of the enemies of freedom. It’s idiots like you who support the (un)Patriot Act, and then don’t even realize which one of your civil liberties were just taken away.
In fact, prr, which liberty does the Patriot Act diminish?
Don’t fret, you won’t answer that either. You’ll probably say one of your favorite lines that lacks substance and thought.
You fucking loser.
prr,
Looks like you’re the jackass now.
Kitten Noise,
You mentioned “Southern Democrats,” which had about as much to do with Rosa Parks as Reagan’s speech in 1980. Raising the “relevance” flag now is just a dodge. GBS called, and you folded. Clearly, you don’t have the cards.
And, no, you can’t get out from under the clearly racist nature of your remarks by declaring everything else to be “pur liberal crap.” You haven’t denied saying that civil rights is an issue relevant only to black people. By definition, that comment is racist.
GBS,
You’re expecting Kitten Noise to grasp to grasp the fact that “state right” is an oxymoron? I have to say that I admire your optimism.
Rick & GBS…..
I’ve never said this was a civil rights issue, that been your tired path.
pussy noise @ 98
Uhhhh. . . the States Right speech has EVERYTHING to do with Civil Rights. But, you already knew that because you’re an expert on the politics and history of Neshoba Coubty, MS and I’m just a, how did you say it, oh yeah an “ignorant jackass” who better do some research first.
Go ahead oh brain trust, please do tell us all about MS politics and civil rights.
Go on. Show off for us.
Go.
Kitten Noise,
You wrote:
Are you now claiming that “someone elses[sic] clause” did not refer to civil rights?
Rick @ 97
It’s not optimism, it Socratic debate.
GBS,
The thing about a Socratic debate is that it requires one’s opponent to recognize when his butt has been kicked. Ergo, my admiration for your optimism.
prr?
I listening (chirp, chirp, chirp) but all I hear are crickets.
Please, this is your big chance to back up your big TALK with some walk. Go on, show us “dumb liberals” all your vast knowledge on civil rights. You’re such an expert on MS region and its politics.
You know what’s really happening right now, pussy noise (aka prr) is googleing like a mad man trying to figure out what the fuck we’re talking about. Like cramming for an exam, huh pussy noise?
bahahahahahahahahhahaha, Har har har har, hahahahahahhahah.
We laugh at you, YOU LOSER!
Rick @ 102.
I stand corrected. Errr, does that mean I recognized you just kicked my butt? LOL
Thanks, Rick. I love tag teaming these lying bastards. It’s how real patriots like us will save America from the evil of conservatism.
Don’t think of it as tag-teaming. We’re simply confronting racism and ignorance.
Is there a better way to commemorate the passing of Rosa Parks than by confronting racism and ignroace?
pussy noise (aka prr)
You are a fucking disgrace. Not just to Republicans, but everyone who claims to be an American.
You are a stain of disgrace on us all.
Grow up and answer the challenges posed on this thread.
A) Ronald Regan’s ‘States Rights’ speech in Philadelphia, MS
B) Which one of your civil liberties is diminished by the Patriot Act.
Go on save face with your self-proclaimed vast knowledge.
You’ve been slapped in the face and duly challenged, sir. And, I use the term ‘sir’ lightly.
@ 105
OK, OK, we’re confronting pussy noise’s ignorance on racisim.
But later on, can we “tag team” the neocons into oblivion?
And, in the process save America from Republicans.
GBS,
The implosion has already begun. We really don’t need to do all that much to help it along.
Rick:
The cannibalism within the Republican party has begun. And, like all animals with an instinct to survive, this thing is going to get bloody as they fight for their own survival.
Well, us Democrats aren’t running the show in Washington, D.C., but you know what? For a change, it sure is nice being a spectator watching this horror flick.
WOW! I’m all pumped up like a 9 year old on Christmas Eve, I mean Fitzmas Eve! I’m going to set my alarm for 3:00 am and get 2 television sets going side by side so I can witness this moment:
“Breaking News!!: Special Counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald is about to hold a news conference and it is widely anticipated that he is going to announce indictments of Senior White House aides Karl Rove, Scooter Libby and possibly others. We take you now, live, to the press conference.”
Fitzgerald: “I’m here today to announce that I am indicting. . .”
Ahhhhhhhh the suspense is killing me. Revenge is a dish best served cold. I wonder what the weather is going to be in DC tomorrow. Let me check. Oh perfect: 42 and rainy. Looks like a great day for revenge.
prr, my dad tweaks me about my politics all the time… he loves the term ‘pinko’.
Luckily he’s a *real* republican, not some evil rightie troll…. So we get along okay.
Windie:
Your Dad’s the Navy Captain, right? His service must go back to the Cold War days if he likes the term ‘pinko.’ That’s funny.
It’s sort of ironic now that we use words like ‘real Republican,’ isn’t it? I know exactly what you mean. Just the other day I was telling a friend of mine I’d rather have 8 years of Regan then 4 years of W. Boy, I thought I’d never say that in my lifetime.
Sounds like your dad is a real man’s, man; have a difference of opinion politically, but don’t let it poison the well. Know what I mean? Good on him.
I wouldn’t be quite so optimistic about Fitzgerald’s indictments. Unless there’s evidence that Chaney knew that Valerie Plame was an undercover agent, there isn’t much chance to find probable cause that a crime was committed.
Having said that, here’s another interesting graph. Note how the regression line is almost exactly parallel to the lighter 45 degree line out of the origin. The President’s drop in approval rating isn’t just a blue-state/red-state phenomenon. It’s accross the board. The only state where the President’s approval rating has actually risen since June is Oklahoma. This doesn’t bode well for Republicans in mid-term elections.
By the way, I’m not a Democrat. While I tend toward liberal/progressive views, I can’t bring myself to join any political party. In fact, I’d like to see less polarization rather than more.
Rick, I am not a Democrat either. But my views are definetliy progressive/Liberal.
While less polarization sounds nice, the Republican pole has shifted dramatically to the right, and has unfortunately shifted the Democratic pole rightward as well. If we are to get back to a progressive/conservative middle ground, it will require a dramatic shift to the left for the Republican party.
Namely they need to jetison these Neo-Cons and get back to Real Conservatisim. Then we can discuss. Untill then, never give up… never surrender (your rights).
One of my proudest moments in my political activism was aiding the I-200 effort. I contributed money, I collected signatures, I wrote letters, I campaigned, and I voted. I proudly display a I-200 certificate signed by John Carlson. I’m proud of the fact that Washington is leading the way to outlaw state sponsored racism.
There are many reason to oppose state sponsored racism. Here are some:
1) It is blatantly unconstitutional. Any reading of the Equal Protection Clause is clear that racial preferences and set asides are illegal.
2) State sponsored preferences are terribly unfair to those who are not members of a “protected class”. There is nothing one can do to get into the preference club; ie, a white person can never become black.
3) As we saw in New Orleans, a lifetime of an entitlement mentality can be lethal. The victims of Katrina just sat by waiting for someone to take care of them. When help was available instantaneously in infinite amounts, they were in a world of hurt. These people felt absolutely no personal responsibility for their wellbeing.
4) Preference programs are the ultimate statement of condescension and hate. What you’re really saying when you defend preferences is that you really believe that some people are inherently inferior and unable to make it on their own. That is a terribly destructive message to send.
I’ll engage anyone here on HA who can debate me on the above points on a moral or intellectual basis. Lucy and Donna… that leaves you out. Don’t waste your time.
Mark LeRedneck, One only needs to read your posts, prriss’, yearight, and every other TROLL to know that racism is alive and well in the good ol’ USA.
For a college or engineering position, if it was between you and an equally qualified melanin filled American… well, I hope you like flipping burgers.
Besides, you haven’t changed your shirt in 3 months! Take a shower and refill the ketchup jars, boy!
MtR
Well, can cook the terms of the debate, but straw men are easy to slay. So, answer me this: If Affirmative Action is, as you claim, “blatantly unconstitutional,” then why did we even need to pass initiative I-200?
Better question: Should we treat outreach programs and and efforts to recruit fully qualified members of any “protected class” into applicant pools with the same disdain that we would cast upon the practice of actually hiring, or granting admissions to, underqualified minority applicants? Affirmative Action mandated the former, but the latter was specifically declared unconstitutional by University of California Board of Regents v. Bakke.
Lastly, would you think that using race, sex or other minority status as a “plus” in general applicant pools for the purpose of promoting a diverse educational student body to be a legitimate practice on moral grounds?
It’s easy to cast the affirmative action debate in terms that are really not all that controversial, but, when you do so, you are arguing about things that affirmative action never mandated, or at least hadn’t mandated since the Bakke case.
For good discussion of the various issues involved in I-200, see this. The bottom line is that I-200 effected far less of a change than its proponents would have us believe it did.
Da-amn, Rick. Glad you are here.
We had to pass I-200 so that local people could tell local government officials to knock it off. We shouldn’t have had to do that, but we did.
Bakke did outlaw letting unqualified applicants into schools, but schools continue to do it anyway. Just last week Seattle schools said they would do it, and UW continues to do it. It’s wrong. Period. If it’s not based on merit, it’s wrong.
Diversity based on pigment and plumbing is stupid. Schools would be a helluva lot better off if conservative voices were allowed to be heard instead of the left wing kookism that passes for mainstream on most university campuses. I have 4 university degrees. I’ve spent much of my adult life on university campuses. I’m shocked at what I see in the political environment and NO dissent is tolerated. That’s wrong, and it SAS isn’t “moral” as you suggest.
I agree on the effect of I-200 being less than it should be. There are open and flagrant violations of it especially in Seattle, and nobody seems to care. I’ve asked Carlson why he doesn’t go after some of the more agregious cases and he never does.
Rick – Can you ever imagine a scenario, or set a timeframe when racial preferences should be set aside?
Also, do you think the problems in the black community today are a result of racism, or problems generated within the community such as low education, teen pregnancy, out of wedlock births, government dependency, drugs, crime, and violence.
Da-amn MTR, you are a complete moron, wish you were not here.
MtR,
Your first paragraph is just outright bullshit. Anyone ever actually harmed by any program that is “blatantly unconstitutional” has perflectly good legal standing for redress. And, since we’re talking about classes of individuals, a class-action lawsuit would have been fully justified, thereby quelching any argument that such allegedly harmed individuals couldn’t afford to seek legal redress. I-200 was window dressing, largely because its proponents attempted to recast affirmative action in terms that didn’t really apply.
As for diversity based on “pigment and plumbing,” such a statement denies the very real social dimensions of race and sex. Do you know why adolescent girls, for example, tend to not do well in math and science classes of mixed gender? The answer clearly has nothing to do with plumbing. Because of historical separation and oppression, underpriviledged and minority classes based on race and sex bring a different perspective to the table. To deny this as a legitimate aspect of diversity is nothing short of assuming the ostrich posture.
Lastly, I have the equivalent of two university degrees earned through coursework done on three separate campuses as well as an internship stint in Washington, DC. The only time I ever saw “conservative” ideas shot down was because they were either based on false premises or they were based on flawed logic. I saw quite a few “liberal” ideas shot down for the same reasons.
My most memorable encounter with “conservative” ideals was during my Washington, DC internship. I got invited to a party thrown by a bunch of College Republicans. A more stark intellectual wasteland would be difficult to either imagine or describe. I recall a casual conversation where someone asked about the “expropriation of the surplus value of the proletariat,” to which the most intelligent response as an indignant, “Well! You’ve probably read the Communist Manifesto!” The poor child couldn’t even tell the difference between Engels and Marx, let alone construct an adequate counter argument to either one. I couldn’t help wondering, exactly how does one construct a cogent counter argument to something without ever actually having read it?
As for Carlson not wanting to press for something more than I-200, perhaps it’s because he realizes that I-200 is quite sufficient to keep the good-ole-boy network running–that it’s just a matter of getting elected to office. Now, if they can only figure that one out (you can’t be serious with David Irons, Jr.)
Lastly, I’ll note that you’ve not even attempted to address the question of outreach programs and or recruitment to applicant pools within the context of the meaning of “preferential treatment”. First you throw down the gauntlet, and then you fail to even discuss the central issue. Well, thank you for playing.
Rick @ 121 “MtR,
Your first paragraph is just outright bullshit”
Now you are talking my language!
And the rest of your post is spot on.
Da-amn I am glad you are here!
Rick – The idea that ethnic minorities and women are put down by “The Man” is stupid. Women and minorities fail because the CHOOSE to do so. They CHOOSE not to do that hard work and make the sacrifices, and look for someone to blame.
We had this debate with I-200. You side lost by 20 points. So go ahead and live in your world of guilt and racism and hate. The rest of us have moved on.
MtR,
Actually, we never did have this debate, because your side kept recasting the debate in terms that had nothing to do with what affirmative action really did. Your side ducked the real debate just like you’ve ducked it now, and I-200 passed on the basis of a very well sold lie.
All of this really leaves only two possibilities: either you’re too ignorant to recognize the lies that buttressed the pro I-200 rhetoric, or you are now being disengenuous by claim a moral victory on the basis of what you know to be a lie. Take your pick. I don’t care which brush you want to get painted with, though the “ignorant” one is the morally palatable of the two.
PS,
We can debate the notion that down-trodden people “choose” to be oppressed, but it has little relevance to the question of diversity. And, if you want to use it as a presumption to show that outreach programs and actively recruiting qualified minorities to applicant pools doesn’t work, then you’ve merely begged the question.
Personally, I don’t feel the idea “group ‘x’ fails because they choose to fail” doesn’t merit argument when it is stated as such. It’s not a logical argument, as far as I can determine, since one would then have to prove categorically that, in all cases, those (in group “x”) who do fail have failed for no other reason than they have chosen to fail. It further seems to me that the suggestion is being made that the individual has made a conscious choice to fail.
I would further agree with RS above that this has little to do with the question of diversity. There are many salient reasons why diversity in the workplace, for instance, is a good thing, and why an employer might seek to promote this by attempting to recruit a more diverse applicant pool. This does not, however, assume that an equally qualified non-minority applicant be dissuaded from applying or excluded from the applicant pool; rather it should be seen as a means of enriching the available pool of applicants. I have participated in the faculty hiring process numerous times at more than one university, and have yet to see a case where the final decision is made on the basis of anything other than the applicant’s actual qualifications.
Da-amn! Rick and Dr. E
I am unworthy!
Do you guys, like teach classes? I wanna enroll!
MTR, You have been SERVED!
Sucks to be you Mark!
QUIZ
HOW DO YOU GET DONNAGEDDON,RICK SCHAUT,GBS,AND RUJAX ON THE SAME BAR STOLL WHY YOU JUST TURN IT UP SIDE DOWN.
Really YO, I have never even seen a Bar Stoll.
Upside down or otherwise.
Get serious, asshole!
YO,
Quiz: How do you keep an idiot in suspense?
Dr. E,
Actually, I was going to allow MtR an opportunity to recast his broad generalization to something not so all-encompassing for the sake of seeing what kind of evidence he’s willing to present, and how nuanced he’s willing to get when discussing the meaning of the word “choose” in various socially-conditioned contexts. Clearly, one might observe that adolescent girls in mixed gender math and science classes “choose” not to perform as well as they do in single-sex classrooms, but the really imporant question to ask is, why? The answer is that the “choice” is a socially-conditioned response to the circumstances based on perceived gender roles.
What I really want to know is whether MtR is content to discover the roots of social issues by merely kicking at the dirt that surrounds the tree, of if he wants to grab a shovel and dig a little deeper. I suspect the former, and I’d predict that he’d demonstrate his superficiality via some snide retort to my “shovel” analogy by invoking references to fertilizer made from barn-yard animal waste.
Donnageddon,
No, I don’t teach anywhere. I’m just a Macintosh computer hack who gets paid to play all day, though I might decide to teach somewhere when hacking Mac OS X stops being fun.
Let me know, Rick. Seriously. Let me know.
MTR @ 119 wrote:
“I have 4 university degrees. I’ve spent much of my adult life on university campuses. . . I’ve asked Carlson why he doesn’t go after some of the more agregious cases and he never does.
Comment by Mark The Redneck— 10/25/05 @ 8:40 pm”
Agregious??? Really?
Is that what 4 college degrees really gets you these days??
Prr: I’m a black man. Proud to be a non-democrat! I began to leave the party around the same time Al Gore brought up Willie Horton against Mike Dukakis. I did vote for Clinton in 92. Voted against them ever since.
Regarding Rosa Parks; we all look up to her as a icon for ending overt racism. Donks practice covert racism now a days.
Stuckonstupiddon or is it donkageddon: You really think I lose to you in political discussion? I give up after three or four entries because arguing anything with you is like talking to a wall. You use the standard lib taking points from media unmatters or mooron.org. You are stuck on stupid!
GBS: You have a point regarding SOME (6 total)white democrats who went Republican. Not all have. You love to excuse Robert Byrd but he doesn’t excuse himself and your donk party still puts in in leadership positions and he still says shit today. Remember MLK Jr. said look out for the white moderate progressive. Isn’t progressive the term du jour for the new donkocratic party?
So GBS, how many blacks have made it to corporate boards or executive VP’s in liberal state corporations in the northeast, mid-atlantic states? Hmmm…? Look at the boards GBS and your dumb donk friends. Where are they? Stifled by white progressive leaders.
Why did Jesse Jackson finally castigate John Kerry for no blacks in his inner circle? What about Howard Dean candidacy? Where were his black associates?
Lastly Rick Schaut: Why are minorities underpriviledged? You miss the big issue here because you have not lived on the other side of the tracks bud. Ever lived in a city tenement? No I didn’t think so. Who controls the run down city schools? You donks do. Why are the city schools so run down? Because you donks talk a good talk but you don’t fix shit! The poor minorities are underpriviledged because you people (democratic donks) have done nothing over the last 45 years to improve the minority lot. If you raise the learning standard, the learners will be raised too!
I present Joe Clark, Jaime Escalante, and the Lady Principal Mary in Chicago. What did they do? They put discipline into their inner city schools and the black & hispanic kids excelled. The kids blew apart the SAT and ACT tests. What did the liberal whites say? They cheated! Better review history GBS and RS! What did the donk school boards do? Fought to get them thrown out of there because it blew away their preconceived stereotypes of poor black kids needing govmint to succeed. GBS, read what Joe Clark and Jaime Escalante wrote about their experiences!!!
pb @ 134
“No I didn’t think so. Who controls the run down city schools? You donks do. Why are the city schools so run down? Because you donks talk a good talk but you don’t fix shit! The poor minorities are underpriviledged because you people (democratic donks) have done nothing over the last 45 years to improve the minority lot.”
I’m gonna mostly agree with you here. In my view, one of the main reasons dems. get slammed for doing too little to fix these problems is because most of the dems. in leadership positions just won’t put the money where their mouths are. Looking at governmental spending priorities over the past few decades reveals an eerie similarity between Democrat and Repubican administrations, especially where military spending is concerned. Social programs continue to be underfunded and are often highly incompetent. Personally, I’d like to see the Dems. wake up and say “you know, we can have a better country for everyone, but it’s going to cost you something.”
Now, that shouldn’t mean an instant rise in taxes, but rather an honest examination of how those tax revenues get spent. Want better schools? Think about how much you want a huge military, its bloated bureaucracy, and its wasteful spending. Think about what that military gets used for, as perhaps opposed to what it should chiefly be used for (like defending the sovereign integrity of the US: the borders) and see if money can’t be reappropriated. I believe it can, and should, but the Dems who are willing to take a stand and talk about it are few and far between — most of them seem to me to be too afraid of losing their seats in Congress if they should talk about changing the military budget. And those who do often get marginalized (like Dennis Kucinich) or written off as wackos (like Jerry Brown).
So, where I disagree with you is in the implication that Republicans are any better in solving these issues. I don’t believe they have been, and in general they haven’t demonstrated a willingness to put badly needed moneys into these issues. Instead, we often hear the tired laissez-faire argument that the private sector can better fix the problem.
Man, I didn’t know puddybud was black, how the Hell did I miss that?
Or is it like MTR’s “4 college degrees”?
… another ludicrous lie?
Windbag: You need a picture? I’ll take from the waist down, so GBS can appreciate it!
Puddybud,
You’re a black man? I think I’m confused here. This weekend I’ll have to go back and research some of the posts from last summer. I thought you were a white man. Hmmm. . .
As I’ve said before I’m not the smartest man in the world but I do have a good memory, and I don’t recall you saying you were a black man. I do recall you attending an Ivy League college, blowing out your knee during your freshman year of college in a pick up basketball game, thus ruining your career in nuke power on US Navy subs.
Am I missing something here, Puddybud, or is there possibly a typo somewhere or in the past you’d like to correct? Or, are personas of Puddybud and PacMan one in the same? You know since you both have SUV’s and all. Puddybud, has your SUV been in an accident lately?
In the meantime, Puddybud (possibly Cybil), you’re starting to catch on to the significance of the politicians who switched from Democrats to Republicans. This is starting to scratch the “pay dirt” if you will. It is extremely difficult for a politician to switch parties and remain successfully employed as a politician unless one of two conditions are met.
Either:
A) They move out of the district they represent to a more politically friendly area, or;
B) Their district switches political ideology.
This is why I kept harping on, and asking you, if you understood the term “demography?” The study of human populations. Knowing this is critical to understanding how and why the Republican Southern Strategy was successful in the former Democratic strong holds of the south. It’s not the number of politicians who switched parties that is critical to the argument as much as it is to the attitudes of the general population in the south. The Republican National Party recognized the propensity for whites in the south to have disdain for blacks and capitalized on the opportunity to woo whites away from the Democratic party, whom many are largely still racists under the surface to this day and strong supporters of the Republican party agenda. (coughing and saying under my breath *Bob Jones University*)
Furthermore, I do not *love* to excuse Robert Byrd. Do you want me to go back and pick out my very focused rebukes of the man, or not? Stop with the deception already.
As for your comments regarding minorities in boardrooms, I’m not going to comment. Only because I really don’t have a sufficient knowledge base to answer that question. I’d need to see more than just the stats on companies operating in blue states and the number of minorities serving in upper positions. Drawing the conclusion that companies operating on blue states are Democrats are therefore racists seems a bit too simplistic to me. I’d need to see the breakdowns of individual companies and their key “C” level executives, VP’s and upper management and see how they align themselves politically.
I’d like to debate/dialogue with you on education and it’s funding sources. To my way of thinking, we are living in the information age, and the US economy, if it is to continue to prosper, must move away from a manufacturing based economy (will be forced to as China, India and later, Africa, develop) and gravitate towards a knowledge based economy.
Do you agree or disagree?
Depending on your answer I’ll move forward with my case for alternate funding of education and why and some root causes of the failures we see today in society.
Dr E. Nice reply, thank you. I never made the implication about Republicans fixing inner city issues. They haven’t tried because the are NOT elected there! The problem isn’t throw more money at the problem, it’s other donkocratic priorities.
What does the NEA do for education? Absolutely nothing whatsoever! Their prime directive (Star Trek) is to make sure they get a govmint handout. Look at the WEA. WTF do they have spending $$$$ (thats big bucks donkogeddon) on illegal dues spending political lobbying? Why did they pay another big fine and really not care about it? Why don’t they take those $$$$ and use them for inner city teacher and guidance counselor education issues? Because they are not student driven. I have family back east in education and they tell me interesting things regarding the NEA.
Regarding military spending, I say perform a performance audit. Cut worthless programs and promote healty needed ones. That’s why I’m in favor of I-900. The hue and cry are from those towns affected by the military. Cutbacks affect their city due to monetary dependencies. I ask, “what are you doing with the largess you receive every year?” Remember Ron Dellums? Now that was one stupid donk black man in Oakland. When you offer to close a base, U B real stupid. He lost his congressional job!!! But I digressed from the main point. I would not throw that money directly at inner city school systems because I want an accounting of the $$$$ spent for the last forty five years.
Many social programs aimed at helping my people are a waste because it has created a dependent class. I have a great friend who worked on the east coast some time ago as a high school counselor. They moved to the midwest because her husband took a new job. There were three black girls talking in the school hall. Two were pregnant. The third one was being educated in free welfare. And this was not an “Ask Lesko” moment. They told her to spread ’em, be a cum sponge, and get pregnant. Do it as often as needed, then she can get free welfare checks for the baby and her while in highschool. Now I ask you lefties, IS THAT WHY WE PAY TAXES? What are donks teaching in the inner city? Where is Jesse HiJackson or Al NotToSharpton on these issues? Nowhere to be found!
No GBS, I said I had greek, american indian, jewish, german, & irish blood in my lines. I never said I was this or that UNTIL TODAY!
PacMan posts are not from my PC, and not from my family PCs. Good try GBS. If I remember PacMan said he was never in the military. Good try GBS. If I remember PacMan claimed to have better English than me. Probably does. I use ebonics, he uses the kings English. Good try GBS. You told PacMan to go to bed and get some good black loving. Good try GBS. I remember donkogeddon asking if PacMan was Puddybud. PacMan and I asked Goldy to put out our IP Addresses and prove to stuckonstupiddon that we post from differing locations at the same time nonetheless.
I’d like to dialogue on the some issues with you. Regarding the economy type, I feel we can still manufacture here. The US still has the best minds. Why do India, Japan and other countries place a high priority on education and make it a competition? Then their best and brightest come to America. I am at a trade show this week. The foreign nationals here are impressive. I also feel that we are losing our technological edge because we dumb down education. My older son asked me one day why do we continue to drag the kids in school who don’t want to learn? I would like to discuss that with you. I will not try and discuss other economic issues because I’ll leave that for perfessor “bong” dj to discuss.
PB,
I think you missed the post where I said I’m not a Democrat. While I tend toward liberal views, I can’t bring myself to join a political party. The fool’s errand of expecting political partisans to solve some of these social problems is no small part of why I can’t bring myself to join a political party. The intertwined relationship between poverty, crime, opportunity and education is so complex that you can’t solve any one of them independently of addressing the others.
As for my background, I spent a good number of my formative years living on Milwaukee’s (WI) near north side. The school I went to had more black students than white students. While I can’t say that I grew up in the projects, I can say that my upbringing wasn’t all that insular either. Not that this is all that relevant. Experience is anecdotal. Good social science isn’t.
So, here’s a question: why aren’t there more Jaime Escalante’s or Joe Clark’s?
GBS: HEllo, your “racist” enabler here. NOT!
You are right to a degree. I will concede a lot of your points to date. Well researched and well written. You must have had deep conversations with minority navy men over the years to know much of your history. Only a few Repubs are the racist democrats of the past in the south. But when they say something out of order (like Strom Thurmond 100 birthday pary), your side is quick to castigate them. I still wait to see the MSM and liberal democrats take Robert Byrd to the woodshed regarding “White Niggers”. Where is your side’s castigation of Louis Farrakhan or Spike Lee when they say the New Orleans levees were blown up by Republicans? That was stupid and you know it. Yes you say Robert Byrd is a living, breathing dinosaur of the past, but why is he still a democratic senate leader? You still haven’t answered the question posed regarding Louisiana and New Orleans politics and why my people are in poverty since 1935 by Huey Long and the Landrieu family? Your democrat friends have treated them as expendable.
So you can call me what you want. I have been in research mode. I will still be in research mode. I have been off and on searching for things I remember of racist democrats and specific commentary from the democratic fringes of the 60s and 70s but much is on Lexis-Nexis or other locations and I will not pay for it.
I still love ya man! You are a great debater, with more on the ball than windie, donnageddon, dj, JDB, and others and you say it without swearing. I look forward to the day I meet you and break bread.
RS: Milwaukee huh? Well maybe you know more than the average joe. The reason there are not more Joe or Jaime is the system kills those who try to rise above the fray. The press doesn’t support them, it supports the status quo!
PacMan where you be? I am in Orlando?
Puddy, I am posting from California. Hey Goldy, I know you don’t say but just admit to GBS, I’m in California and where is Puddbud blogging from? How was the hurricane? Did it affect you in Orlando?
PacMan, no the hurricane was just a 35 MPH breeze here.
PB,
Yes, the answer is that the problem is systemic, but you can’t limit your concept of “the system” to just the educational system. There are other social factors involved.
Ever heard of Dwight W. Allen?
pb
“Why do India, Japan and other countries place a high priority on education and make it a competition? Then their best and brightest come to America. I am at a trade show this week. The foreign nationals here are impressive. I also feel that we are losing our technological edge because we dumb down education.
Again, I’m going to agree with you. As an educator, it’s been my long-standing opinion that, as a nation, we don’t really value education as we should. Our elected representatives show little interest in bettering the standards, and the electorate keeps sending them (or similar replacements) back. The politicians are controlling the discourse on this and many other issues insofar as they refuse to meaningfully address them.
I like to offer my students Tibet (pre-1950’s) as a comparison to the United States. The Tibetans invested, on average, something like 80% of their GDP in education. (This largely manifested itself in the form of monasteries, but then the cultural separation of religion and state was a non-issue.) The result? While not wealthy by western standards, Tibet certainly produced one of the most enlightened and culturally enriched societies on the planet. (One of the most peaceful as well, but that’s a separate issue.) The United States, on the other hand, earmarks less than 10% of its yearly appropriations to education, with military spending consistently near the 50% mark (higher if one then includes supplemental allocations). On the surface, the message that sends to me is that, as a nation, we value a large (and costly) military more than we do educating our citizens.
Now, the question perhaps is “Why is the American educational system so poor?” Is money really an issue? Yes. Teachers’ salaries in many parts of the country are low — very low. So low that you’d pretty much either have to really want to teach or be otherwise unable to find a better paying job to work for that kind of salary.
In the world of post-secondary education, governmental cuts have, since the 1980s, taken their toll. Adjunct and other part-time instructors used to play a fairly minor role in university education, often limited to hands-on skill acquisition for which the full-time faculty had either little time or experience. These were good-paying jobs, as well: an adjunct instructor at the UW would make about $75 per hour in the early 1980s. Today, many departments rely on adjunct and part-time instructors to provide the bulk of their departmental offerings. They often have to, as the full-time faculty are already overextended, and there are not sufficient funds for the hiring of new full-time faculty. Moreover, the adjuncts/PT instructors are often treated poorly, like expendable resources, on quarterly or yearly contracts, with variable teaching loads which impact their salaries based on student enrollments. It’s a huge band-aid, and little more; definitely not a solution to an enduring problem.
I have in passing. He and Bill Cosby co wrote a book if I remember. I think Oprah had Bill Cosby on and he mentioned this. I will read up on him. But I agree on other social factors. I tried to address them with today’s welfare discussion and the Great Society discussion I had many moons ago. I also think PacMan was having a discussion with headlice loony over this regarding the Headstart Program but loony would not explain to PacMan where he got his degree from to teach them school children where he pollutes minds.
PacMan,
Grrrrrrrrrrrr, Man, you really know how to PISS ME OFF sometimes, then ya smooth things over by wanting to break bread.
How can you stay mad at somebody who’s willing to break bread with you? The term and it’s social meaning runs deeeeeeeep with me. Seriously. I will NOT break bread with people I even remotely dislike. Eating does two things for me: it nourishes my body, and when I share that meal with another person, it feeds my soul, too. Even if it is just a Happy Meal (if I’m buying, and sushi when it’s your turn BTW).
Finally, I’m wrapping up on the RSS debate here with a few items, thoughts, and a little soul bearing, too.
My real point the whole time, or at least the conclusion I wanted you to arrive at, and I am going to paint with a really broad brush here, is the core value of the socially conservative nature of the general population of the south. The whole thing about the RSS is not about the politicians but the population that drives the politics, or their willingness to be led by it. That’s what has given birth to the modern day Republican party’s power base. Has it changed? As a national party platform, sure because of political correctness. But there is still something dark at its core belief that has yet to be exorcised in general.
While the Klan isn’t as visible as it once was, it’s still more prevalent in the south than anywhere else country. Racism is everywhere, let’s not kid ourselves. No political party is 100% immune from it. Robert Byrd will not be castigated, mitigated or terminated from the Democratic party (that sounded like Jesse didn’t it?) any more than Strom Thurmond by the Republican’s. Our saving Grace here is that they’re getting closer to death and sometimes that’s the only way to close the chapter on a bad period in history. Racism is a two way street. It’s not just for whites either. In Seattle I drive down MLK jr Blvd all the time without any worries. There’s a taco bus I eat at and a few other places I frequent with no hassles or worries. Seattle’s like that. But, I’m also smart enough to know that MLK Blvd in Oakland, LA, Detroit, or being on the wrong side of Broad street in Philly is no place for a Honky — day or night. And it’s not because they know who I am or my past, it’s based on the color or my skin. .
Very little of the history I’ve learned has come from people of color. Most of what I know comes from reading and observing people and my environment, I’m naturally curious. I’ve learned not to always see things from a black or white person’s perspective, either, but just what is there before my eyes and leave it at that.
As far as my conversations with a minority man in the Navy, there is some truth to that. Here comes the soul bearing part of the presentation. When I went to boot camp I was a bona fide racist myself. If you weren’t white you weren’t right. Not a product of thought or teaching, but a product of my environment growing up. Suffice to say that when you added up all the people of ethnicity, white folk like me were not in the majority. So we fought all the time protecting pockets of our neighborhood. When I arrived at boot camp they arranged us alphabetically in the berthing area. It went like this: black guy, GBS, black guy. At the time I was none to pleased to be stuck between two ‘niggers.”
One of the guys kept trying to strike up a conversation with me. Not wanting to get in any trouble, I shot him one liners like Yes, No, maybe, instead of saying what I normally would have said, like: “Shut the fuck up, porch monkey” – nigger – spear chucker – throw in the appropriate slur for the moment. After two or three weeks of getting the cold shoulder from me I figured he’d get the message and quit talking to me. By now, I knew his home town, his family members names, what he wanted to do in the Navy, after the Navy, and shit, this guy only knew my first and last name — literally. But he kept trying to get to know me, kept smiling and kept a great attitude.
After a month he got me laughing one night and my guard broke down. I vividly remember sitting at the center board table actually talking back with him and at the same time justifying it in my mind that it was “OK” because he’s probably a white guy at heart just unfortunately born black. By the time I left boot camp, I realized that my racism was a protection mechanism born out of fear, violence, hate and survival and all forms of racism have those common threads to one degree or another.
I never returned to my childhood neighborhood or the “friends” I had at the time. 10 years was long enough to drift a part and lose touch, albeit by design. The Lord moves in mysterious ways. I realize that I wasn’t bunking next to God almighty himself, but no doubt he was working on me through my neighbor.
I’ll touch on my reasoning for funding education differently later. I gotta go for now.
All right, I love ya, too, again. You bastard.
I threw in the bastard at the end just to keep you on your toes, since you think I don’t always swear. Which, by the way, is not true. I’ve been known to cuss like a, well, sailor.
HOW DO YOU KEEP DR E BUSY FOR 8 HOURS. PUT HIM IN A BARREL AN TELL HIM TO SHIT IN THE CORNER.
GBS @ 144.. My bad. duh….
PB,
That’s the guy. He’s injected some interesting words into the whole education issue, like “risk” and “experiment.” Have you read the book he co-authored with Bill Cosby?
The Great Society debate is gotten rather stale. Too many participants are rehashing stuff that isn’t really all that controversial, yet trying to paint the other side of the debate with the stuff that isn’t all that controversial. Welfare reform has been on the table for at least two decades, and it’s time we stopped banging on each other for past mistakes, and figure out a principled way to move forward together. As I pointed out in my remarks to MtR, you can’t have a legitimate debate when one side of the debate keeps redefining the semantic landscape.
GBS,
Breaking bread with people we don’t agree with is something we really have to start doing, and, yes, that’s very hard to do with people who have a nasty habit of putting words into our mouths and attributing to us ideas we’ve never espoused. For that reason, I make it a habit of not breaking bread with people who are enamored with the sound of their own voice. But, I’ll break bread with just about anybody else, and agreement with my ideas is not a prerequisite.
Rick @ 153
Yep, agreement of ideas is not the prerequisite for me to break bread with someone. In fact, I like having a dinner debate with friends who are diametrically opposed to my thinking. My Dad taught with adages and cliches, one of my favorites was this one: “When everyone is agreeing, only one person is thinking.
You can’t learn or expand your horizons when you only keep company with people of similar levels of thinking or opinions.
But, under no circumstances will I break bread with people I don’t like. Life is too short to break bread with my enemies, so to speak. I still have some bigotries I guess, but I don’t have any remorse of it.
However, I’ll drink with just about anybody. Even Bush or prr.
YO
Dat were a good’n. By the way, we use question marks when asking questions in the English language.
GBS,
My grandmother’s version of that adage was, when two people think exactly alike, one of them isn’t necessary.
GBS: Your favorite bastard reporting in this evening after dinner. I am glad you partially accepted my partial acceptance. I realized long ago where you were going but I can’t admit that, because you would use it against me. I understand the debate tactic you used here. Here are the ones I see implemented my many lefty animal hind parts members. I think you can figure out the personalities and those used.
1.) Attack The Messenger:
2.) The Bait & Switch:
3.) The Blitzkrieg: – GBS
4.) Enter The Strawman:
5.) History Will Be Kind To Me For I Intend To Write It:
6.) I’m Not Hearing You — La La La:
7.) Motives Matter, Results Don’t:
8.) That Context Is On A Need To Know Basis:
9.) That’s Mean, Mean, Mean!:
10.) Emotive language:
11.) Insults, veiled or not. Attack the argument, not the person:
12.) You’ll grow out of it:
13.) Unjustified claims:
You buried me with so many things, the blitzkrieg; I had to think about them for a while. If you shoot from the hip, you lose in the court of debate topics. But from the list above I could identify each person’s debate style.
See ya later.
RS: I have not read the co-authored book. Looks like an Amazon order is forthcoming.
GBS: Did you see the Soprano’s episode where Tony and the wife were talking about everyone laughing at his jokes while they were playing cards? The wife told him that when he tells a joke everyone agrees with and laughs with him because of his status not necessarily because he’s funny. Later he thinks about it and rehashes the last card game during his weekly shrink session. Daddy called those who always agreed with you sycophants!!! You know, flattering parasites!! And so many of them reside here on animal hind parts!
PM,
I don’t know if I’m regular enough to fall into the list, but I’m probably closest to #11.
PB,
I should warn you. American Schools is primarily a sell job. The basic idea isn’t all that complicated: our educational system needs to change, but there isn’t a sufficiently solid body of knowledge upon which to base a single pedagogy. The answer to that is to take some risks, foster an atmosphere of experimentation, and figure out what works and what doesn’t. The political problem with that idea is that we are bound to make mistakes along the way. The thing to keep in mind is that they’re not talking about a solution per se. Rather, they’re talking about a process through which we can find a solution (or solutions–one idea they reject is the notion that one size fits all).
As for sycophants, I’m rather inclined to think of political parties as petrie dishes designed to cultivate them. I think that goes for any political party, but my view might well be skewed by lack of exposure to the way political parties operate outside the US political system.
PacMan:
Blitzkrieg? Me?
Wait for it. . . . . wait. . . . . . wait. . . . . wait. . . . . Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
That’s our pal, Puddybud. That dude buries you in links that are at times very lengthy reads.
Anyways, it’s really not my style. I’ll give you hint as to my debating style. At some point I’ll ask a probing question. Sometimes it’s because I legitimately don’t know the subject and I’m seeking more information, sometimes, I want to see how much you know about the topic, sometimes I just merely want to compile information for use later, sometimes I want to examine your thinking process, and other times it’s a set up to force you to contradict yourself.
The long and the short of our RSS debate, PacMan, and this next comment is only meant to be a dose of healthy criticism, is that it wasn’t an informational blitzkrieg by me, as much as you were overwhelmed by a lack on knowledge on the subject. Believe me when I say I kept 75% of my powder dry on this one. I threw out a sprinkles of information that ranged in dates from 1948- 1992.
Philadelphia, MS’s history is ugly for the murder of three civil rights workers by the Klan. Regan, delivered his “States Rights” speech in Philadelphia, MS at the urging of Trent Lott. States Rights, is code word to southern whites meaning to prevent the advancement of black people.
Robert Byrd, and Al Gore Sr. are no friends of minorities either. And, their affiliation with the Democrats taints our party’s values. But, the RNC adopted a race baiting strategy that taints everyone of its members, regardless of their moral principles on race.
That, in a nutshell, is the difference between the two national parties regarding race. And, in general, it speaks to the values of the people who support each party.
GBS: I know how to search the Internet. Does that bother you that much? Wow, I must be doing something you really approve of. I have to because I use it in my company. One must be able to find information quickly for clients.
I can no longer support a party that does nothing for my people. Since you kept your powder dry for the PacMan torpedo attack, please clue me in on this:
What has the donkocratic party done for my people in the last 45 years? Nothing really. What did your revered president clinton do for the black cause? Nothing bro, absolutely nothing. No proposed programs, no threatened vetoes, nothing. He played the saxophone and blew out some jazz, but nothing else! I thought PacMan posted a link that showed that JFK didn’t support Civil Rights for blacks because he would have lost the 1960 election to Nixon. I posted the stupid act of Goldwater in 1962. Oh, you missed racist J. William Fulbright, Billy Clinton’s mentor.
But have you been paying attention to BUPPIES lately? No, I doubt it. They have figured out that HiJackson and NottoSharpton are only out for themselves and this is turning off a larger number of upwardly mobile blacks.
Puddybud:
Lighten up, dude. My point is that you have info overload often. Good or bad is not the point.
You know what I’ve said about JFK so no sense in rehashing that or the fact he had MLK placed under surviellence.
Buppies, are the fastest growing segments of the population to the movies. Did you know that?
PB,
I’ll give you three: Abe Fortas, Thrugood Marshall and Byron R. White.
Correction @ 163
It should read:
Buppies, are the fastest growing segments of the population **going** to the movies. Did you know that?