I blame Boeing

Yeah, of course, Republicans are blaming Democrats, Susan Hutchison is blaming Dow Constantine, and the Seattle Times editorial board is blaming the unions, but me… I blame Boeing.

In the end, this was Boeing’s decision. They’re the ones with no loyalty to the Puget Sound region that nurtured them for much of the last century, and they’re the ones intent on moving production to a right to work state… inexperience, shoddy workmanship and occasional hurricanes be damned. This was their decision, and like the Sonics before them, all pretense of negotiation was simply that.

So trolls, feel free to play the blame game all you want. But any argument that doesn’t lay the blame for this decision squarely on the folks who made the decision, simply isn’t a serious argument.

Comments

  1. 2

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Well, look on the bright side: less people means less congestion on the freeways and less crowding in general.

  2. 3

    spews:

    Goldy:

    Are you saying Boeing did something WRONG? If so, what? I see nothing in your post that blames them for doing something WRONG.

    Loyalty is the only thing that kept them here this long; if anything they hurt their shareholders by not leaving sooner.

    And right to work — as with most rights — is, you know, a good thing. I defy you to show how the workmanship in South Carolina is worse than in Washington State.

    So … what was wrong with Boeing’s decision? They did what was in the company’s best interest, which is what they SHOULD do, barring illegal or immoral activity en route. And none of this is illegal or immoral.

    It is the fault of the people in Washington who made this the right decision for Boeing.

  3. 4

    correctnotright spews:

    This is a sad day for Washington state. Boeing has been a stple of the Puget Sound region. Good, high paying jobs for working people.

    Ever since Boeing moved the corporate headquarters away from Seattle (to Chicago?) – this could have been p[redicted. The union offered a 10 year contract. Boeing never came back with a counter-offer. Boeing used the union to extract more from South Carolina – pitting states against one another to get the best deal.

    This is typical corporate undercutting. Boeing has had problems with it’s non-union workers output – shoddy construction, mistakes that had to be corrected in Everett and failure to deliver on time (so bad they had to buy the plant in SC).

    Boeing is making mistake after mistake (trying to bribe the Pentagon on the tankers, outsourcing the 787 dreamliner, moving the headquarters away from the workers). The company is going down the drain due to poor management.

  4. 5

    spews:

    Pudge, they’re probably wrecking their company. I don’t think they’re going to be able to deliver quality airplanes any more. We have have the president of the Machinists Union on the negotiation, quoted today in the Seattle Times:

    The union offered Boeing a 10-year contract, he said, “and even offered one longer than that. And when we did, they seemed stunned, and they stopped talking.”

    Management, of course, does not respond. Management never intended to stay. Management is throwing away the best thing about about the company they own.

  5. 6

    correctnotright spews:

    Oh, Pudgy-idiot is back. You want the list of Boeing failures – read 3 above – fool!

    Right to work stinks – look at the quality of workmanship – it stinks – just like your lousy opinions, little Pudgy boy.

    It is the fault of lousy management at Boeing – once again they have been short-sighted and made the wrong decision.

  6. 7

    Keith spews:

    Raven@1: Same thing I was thinking. I don’t know if it’s practical but I’d love to see it happen. But I’d rather see them go into manufacturing efficient mass transit equipment than airplanes. Boing produced light rail vehicles for a while near the end of the Vietnam war when the government was trying to find useful non-war related work for defense contractors. If there was a Washington based manufacturer of mass transit equipment they might have a consistent customer in local governments.

    Also, Boeing should lose all their tax breaks as soon as possible. If they aren’t committed to Washington or to workers why should we give them anything? We might as well get the much needed revenue before they leave.

  7. 8

    spews:

    If Boeing had any loyalty to this community after nearly 100 freaking years, which it doesn’t, it build the planes here period. Labor unions here was willing to promise peace for at least 10 years. The state of WA gives huge tax breaks to Boeing already. Tax breaks that many other business would be thrilled to have also.

    This is globalization at it’s best. Find a place with cheap labor where you can manipulate the ignorant workers at will because if they complain about their working conditions you just fire their ass. A place where environmental standards won’t be enforced if possible. It’s like the rich owners wanting to move a sports franchise but in this case it goes to the lowest bidder, not the highest. Fuck ethics, fuck loyalty, fuck quality. Working at wages that Boeing pays in SC, $10 to $14 per hour or less the workers probably won’t be able to afford to fly on their fucking planes in the long run. This impacts a basic strength in this country that’s under attack a viable middle class that needs to be paid a decent living wage so they can afford to take a damn vacation and buy goods beyond basic necessities. Which in turn creates living wage jobs for someone else and so on. SC is one of the most politically right wing states there is, full of right wing religious types who like to talk about Jesus while simultaneously exploiting any fear ridden bottom feeding worker in sight.

  8. 9

    spews:

    The Raven: Pudge, they’re probably wrecking their company. I don’t think they’re going to be able to deliver quality airplanes any more.

    Perhaps, but how is that related to moving to South Carolina?

    If you think that without the union they cannot make good planes, you’re completely fooling yourself. There’s no evidence of this whatsoever; it’s a completely unsubstantiated hypothesis. Why do you hate science?

    I am not asking how Boeing has failed. I am asking how the decision to move to South Carolina is the wrong one. None of the failures listed demonstrate the move is wrong.

  9. 10

    YLB spews:

    I defy you to show how the workmanship in South Carolina is worse than in Washington State.

    Easy.

    Don’t take rhp’s word for it. Ask a Boeing QC manager or inspector.

  10. 11

    Don spews:

    What did Boeing do wrong? How about letting Mulally go? An engineer who understood assembly lines and production. So he went to Ford. Guess what? Ford was the only automaker of the Big 3 that didn’t ask for a government bailout.

  11. 12

    Chris Stefan spews:

    @8
    South Carolina better watch out, the next step is to build the entire aircraft in the developing world. Why pay $10 an hour when you can pay $1/day?

    Of course the same management philosophy that drove McDonnell and Douglas into the ground is going to drive Boeing under.

    Alan Mullaly was smart to bail for Ford when he did.

  12. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s Airbus for me, from now on. I won’t fly on a plane assembled with unskilled minimum-wage labor.

  13. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 “Are you saying Boeing did something WRONG?”

    Damn right they did.

    “If so, what?”

    They demanded — and got — $3 billion of subsidies from taxpayers in return for building the plane here, then knife this state in the back.

    If you don’t see what’s wrong with that, you’re even less principled than we thought.

    I say make them repay the $3 billion.

  14. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The universal theme of the troll comments you will see on this blog is their profound DISLOYALTY to Washington state and its workers.

  15. 17

    Right Stuff spews:

    Well, I guess after the 767 line shuts down, there will be plenty of extra time for union meetings….You know, members can all sit around and ask themselves why they allowed themselves to “strike” their jobs to SC.
    Great idea those strikes……Until the company moves the jobs away…..
    The union members should be so proud…

  16. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The fishwrapper’s Jon Talton told it like it is: “Boeing’s top executives bear the biggest blame for delays on the Dreamliner, the 747-8, the original scandal-sunk tanker contract, and Boeing’s tarnished reputation. So far, they have evaded accountability.”

  17. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @17 et al.: The worker-hating rightwing culture won’t be satisfied until everyone in America is either unemployed or making Chinese wages. Unions built this country, asshole. Union wages created America’s middle class. Dumbfucks like you want to tear down everything your fathers and grandfathers built. Well, here’s the deal. America is about 95% workers and 5% capitalists. I say let Republicans keep going the way they are with their anti-worker agenda until they’re down to 5% of the vote! Kansas (and everywhere else) is finally wising up, as the last two elections showed. Americans — especially young Americans — are figuring out which political party is screwing them. There’s a reckoning coming.

  18. 20

    ivan spews:

    Pudge @ 9, a card-carrying member of the right-wing “free” market cult, asks:

    I am not asking how Boeing has failed. I am asking how the decision to move to South Carolina is the wrong one. None of the failures listed demonstrate the move is wrong.

    The move might be “right” for Boeing in the short run, in terms of its status in stock market indexes. Nobody denies that Wall Street rewards corporations that slash labor costs.

    But Pudge, like all the other right-wing trolls who hunker down in Sound Politics, like Hitler in his bunker in the final days of his “thousand-year-Reich,” has bought into the mentality of short-term profitability uber alles, which enables the money boys at the top to skim while the skimming is good.

    That is all their economic policy is about. That’s all of it. The big boys skim to their heart’s content, while their butt boys, such as Pudge, thank them for a nice thorough reaming every so often, as their reward for promoting and enabling the skimming.

    Boeing will get what it pays for in South Carolina, just as it has gotten what it has paid for here in Washington. The men and women on the line know the difference. The work will be shoddy, and it will be late. There is too much evidence of this already having happened to ignore.

    The ignorant right-wing trolls on the comment threads seem to believe, with almost religious certitude, that lower-paid, lower-educated, nonunion labor can and will build a better product, while being supervised by a management team that already HAS turned its back on quality production, just to line its OWN pockets.

    Can’t happen. Never has. The product will suffer, and public confidence in the product will suffer.

    In the long run, this will turn out to be the “wrong” decision for Boeing. Bet on it. The evidence will be there soon enough.

    If the plant in South Carolina doesn’t unionize, quality will not be rewarded. Sucking up to the boss will be rewarded. There was enough of that right here.

    If future Boeing management gives half a shit about quality, they’ll be back, and they’ll be back with a vengeance.

  19. 21

    Troutski spews:

    What is wrong is that the race to the bottom on employee costs has already proven to be a bad business model. See: the 787

  20. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Someone in the fishwrapper’s reader comments pointed out that GE is hiring aviation engineers in Seattle. I wonder if Suzie will give Gregoire and Constantine credit for that? The governor certainly deserves credit for helping create and maintain the 5th-ranking business-friendly climate in the U.S., but you’ll see Hell freeze over before any Republican or any of our trolls acknowledge that.

  21. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @20 The stock market has rewarded Boeing’s forward-thinking management with a forward P/E ratio of 10 — about half the market average in normal times.

  22. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Looking at the bright side, a P/E of 10 is slightly better than, say, a failing car company.

  23. 25

    40-year Voter spews:

    Boeing demonstrated it’s opinion about Puget Sound in 2001 when it moved company HQ to Chicago. They’re an international company now and Everett and Renton are just a couple more pins in their world map. Their board meets in Chicago and has few northwesterners remaining.

    Listening to their corporate spokesman on NPR this morning, it was clear that labor concessions, real and/or potential, were minor factors in them arriving at their decision.

    It was Charlston, no matter what the union conceded.

  24. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Speaking of stocks, the market is up today on economic data showing a 3.8% growth rate in the last quarter, the strongest signal yet that the recession is over.

    Keep telling us what a miserable failure Obama is, righty fools …

  25. 28

    countrygirl spews:

    Good riddance to Boeing. Hello Airbus!

    The Gov should immediately impose eminent domain and confiscate every inch of property Boeing owns in Washington to repay the debt to the local taxpayers. The second the plant is vacated, we can then lease it to Airbus. I’m sure they’d be delighted to have the most highly skilled aerospace workforce in the world at their disposal.

    Supposedly South Carolina has an aerospace training program for the local workforce. This leads one to wonder who exactly is training their workforce? Doubtful it’s any of the local Machinists. Probably some dipshit with an MBA from some unaccredited Baptist college.

  26. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    In other economic news, a human resources firm says about half of 200 large employers they surveyed “plan to roll back hiring and wage freezes they put in place as a response to the recession” and a third also “plan to roll back cuts in contributions to their 401(k) plans.” In addition, large percentages plan to lift hiring and wage freezes within the next 6 months.
    http://www.dailyfinance.com/20.....-spring-t/

    Keep telling us what a miserable failure Obama is, righty fools …

  27. 31

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @28 I agree, it’s time to invite Airbus to Seattle. It won’t be long until Boeing is a Chinese national company, anyway.

  28. 32

    spews:

    What Boeing has done is both short-sighted and dangerous. As Ivan points out, they’re looking only at the next couple of quarterly financial reports rather than the implications of their decision over the next decades.

    It’s dangerous because they’re going to build those extraordinarily complex and unforgiving machines with low-skill assembly-line workers. Their belief, it seems, is that building an airliner is pretty much equivalent to building a car. But that’s simply wrong.

    If a car is badly built — even if it’s as awful as the legendary Yugo or a Soviet Lada — its breakdown is going to be a relatively minor hiccup. Somebody’s late for work, or maybe there’s a fender-bender, even an injury or three.

    But a badly built airliner falls out of the sky, badly injuring or killing hundreds of people. It immediately creates an expensive and extensive tangle of the entire airline network. And it triggers an extended investigation by government agencies.

    In sharp contrast to an automobile, an airliner is, in essence, hand-crafted. They call it an assembly line, but it’s on a scale that’s orders of magnitude different from River Rouge or another auto plant — a few hundred planes per year, as opposed to millions of cars.

    The people who build airliners are not interchangeable and disposable cogs in a faceless machine. That Boeing, of all companies, no longer understands that bodes very poorly for a once-proud American industry.

  29. 33

    Right Stuff spews:

    ” Americans — especially young Americans — are figuring out which political party is screwing them. There’s a reckoning coming.”

    I totally agree, but not in the direction you think it will happen….

    “mmmm-mmmm-mmmm Barack Hussein Obama mmmm-mmmm-mmmm”

    Maybe the soon to be unemployed unionists will get releif from “Obama’s stash”….

    RR your entitlement mentality, which is exactly the mentality of the HA lib, is what is destroying this country…
    It has nothing to do with who is “for labor”. It’s about expectations that Gov will take care of your basic needs because you’re an American..America is no longer 95% worker…it’s a declining population of workers and growing poplulation of government dependents..
    Just as Democrats like it…..

  30. 34

    Lefty Loosey spews:

    One more comment: why should the workers (in this case, the unions) always take the bullet? If the Suits at Boeing are all that concerned about cutting costs and earning profits, why don’t they take pay cuts themselves? If a business of any type makes bad decisions, why is it that the hard-working employees on the ground always take a hit while the ones making those bad decisions never do?

    They don’t because they don’t have to. Our business model is now structured so that biz execs are disconnected from their decisions and their responsibilities. Whatever decision they make, they’ll come out on top, without accountability. This is why the gov’t finally had to step in an crack down on excessive bonuses in the banking industry. This is the same kind of mindset we’re seeing at Boeing now.

    I like countrygirl’s comment #28. The only problem with it is that it makes so much sense that it’ll probably never happen, politically.

  31. 35

    a real "Viking" spews:

    how many cars in Seattle are made in Japan, and Korea? A third?

    How many commenters complaining about loyalty buy printers made in Singapore…?

    China is about to buy Volvo.

    Will we stop buying Volvos?

    Don’t think so.

    Do you buy …say, Coleman lanterns or little bike lights only if made in USA? They’re from China, aren’t they?

    Most REI stuff is.

    WE BUY CHEAPER STUFF and manufacturers respond to that. Sure there’s quality problems at first, then they learn, just like Japan and Hong Kong and Korea did and China and India are on the verge of learning. In fact we’ll all probably be buying the electric mini cars from India in ten years.

    There isn’t one commenter on this site with a TV made in America.

  32. 36

    Alki Postings spews:

    Oh please kids…stop the childish blaming…it’s the Democrats, or the Republicans, or the unions, or the corporate heads. It’s money. It’s a private corporation. Their ONLY obligation as a corporation is to maximize profit. They’ve decided they can do that by moving some manufacturing to SC. In a few years they’ll move from there to China, or somewhere even cheaper. We have to stop pretending corporations are “people” and are out to do good things or make people feel good. They’re out to make the most money possible. And no American city can compete with fake economies and super cheap labor that China offers. They make our computers, our iPods, our TVs, and soon our cars and airplanes. Welcome to the global economy.

    This isn’t about unions. Even non-union manufacturing (computers, TV, chairs, tables, etc) are mostly done overseas. Maybe union workers make 15% more than non-union…but China can offer labor for 80% less than even U.S. non-union labor. So it’s a MOOT point. MOOT MOOT MOOT.

  33. 37

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    Real Viking…

    Puddy was waiting for the zinger… How many non-Detroit “non-union” made cars populate a Boeing parking lot?

    Nuff SAID!

  34. 38

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    Alki Postings…

    To get into China’s market, Boeing and Airbus have a manufacturing line in China… Goldy went over this before when he started his Boeing rant earlier this month. Puddy identified the Chinese city where Airbus broke ground and produced their first A320 earlier this summer. It was all there if SOMEONE looked carefully.

  35. 39

    YLB spews:

    No one in their right mind should fly on that 787 plane.

    When that thing goes down filled with people oh boy is Boeing going down the tubes with it.

    Sorry I blame it on the greedhead executives seeking “maximum return”.

  36. 40

    spews:

    Trolls Need to Adopt Socialism

    Once Boeing moved to Chicago this became inevitable.

    Our trolls need to understand that their free market IS merciless. As an international company, the concept of community means nothing to the new McBoeing. Their duty and motivation is to make $$$ for the shareholders and to enrich the managers. Nothing else matters.

    Moving ALL of any company to wherever the profits can be higher is implicit on pure capitalism. There is NOTHING any government can do to compete with lower wages and higher govt subsidies.

    And yes Unions are a negative in a free market when that free market has to compete against a STATE system that outlaws unions .. China!

    NOW things can get really ugly. Why should McBoeing remain in the US at all?

    The cost of moving headquarters to Chicago was peanuts, the cost of moving ownership to Beijing or Brazilia would be even less. The only real strings keeping Boeing here is Troll-land are the likelihood that Unca Sam would not allow the Boeing defense IP to move out of the country.

    NOW, oh Trolls, ask yourself if the same issue pertain to Airbus? Airbus IS a European, socialist endeavor. Its choices as to where t locate are intrinsically tied to the SOCIALIST concept of a company being owned by its community.

  37. 42

    daves spews:

    @39 Sorry I blame it on the greedhead executives seeking “maximum return”.

    Speaking of which, your family is looking for ANY return from you, meat head, instead of being glued to HA all day and night seven days a week.

  38. 43

    ArtFart spews:

    @35 “There isn’t one commenter on this site with a TV made in America.”

    Actually, I have one. It’s in the back of my truck and I’m dropping it off for recycling.

  39. 44

    ArtFart spews:

    There’s been a sea change at Boeing. Once, it was a company run by people who loved making airplanes. Now it’s run by people who love making money. Industrialism has given way to pure capitalism.

    What’s the difference? Simply put, an industrialist sees a company as a collection of people seeking to make a product or provide a service that other people are willing to pay for. A capitalist sees a company as a collection of money seeking to replicate itself. Manufacturing, or for that matter delivering anything of value, is simply a means to an end, bordering on an inconvenience.

    In this light, any corporation becomes basically a hedge fund surrounded by incidentals, and delivering something of value to customers is done grudgingly because it isn’t legal to simply rob them at gunpoint.

  40. 45

    X'ad spews:

    33. Right Stuff spews:

    ” Americans — especially young Americans — are figuring out which political party is screwing them. There’s a reckoning coming.”

    I totally agree, but not in the direction you think it will happen….

    “mmmm-mmmm-mmmm Barack Hussein Obama mmmm-mmmm-mmmm”

    Maybe the soon to be unemployed unionists will get releif from “Obama’s stash”….

    RR your entitlement mentality, which is exactly the mentality of the HA lib, is what is destroying this country…
    It has nothing to do with who is “for labor”. It’s about expectations that Gov will take care of your basic needs because you’re an American..America is no longer 95% worker…it’s a declining population of workers and growing poplulation of government dependents..
    Just as Democrats like it…..

    Since that’s what you sincerely believe, you’ll never understand why Americans voted you morons out of office.

    And who cares? Enjoy your fossilhood.

  41. 46

    spews:

    pudge@9: They need the knowledge and loyalty of their employees, which is here in Washington. Eventually, I suppose, they can get their line going in SC, though employees secure in their jobs and lives usually do better jobs. But they’ll have spent a huge amount of money, lost years of time getting their line going, and given their competitors a huge head start. My guess is that, as of this decision, Boeing is either going to fall to the bottom of the civilian aircraft manufacturing market, or have to leave it entirely.

  42. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @33 “I totally agree, but not in the direction you think it will happen….”

    So far, you’ve never been right about anything in your life.

  43. 48

    X'ad spews:

    46. The Raven spews:

    pudge@9: They need the knowledge and loyalty of their employees, which is here in Washington. Eventually, I suppose, they can get their line going in SC, though employees secure in their jobs and lives usually do better jobs. But they’ll have spent a huge amount of money, lost years of time getting their line going, and given their competitors a huge head start. My guess is that, as of this decision, Boeing is either going to fall to the bottom of the civilian aircraft manufacturing market, or have to leave it entirely.

    This is just the next phase in moving to China. They will next claim they can get better quality in China because of failures in the US work force in SC.

  44. 49

    spews:

    pudge @ 3

    I’m sorry. Your writing is kind of hard to understand. Maybe you could write a song about it and post it to YouTube.

    Hey, while I have your attention, you still haven’t answered my question.

    You stated that Hitler was a leftist, which we all know is true.

    Okay. So then what political alignment was Mussolini?

  45. 51

    Chris Stefan spews:

    You know we really should try to lure an aerospace plant from one of Boeing’s competitors to Washington.

  46. 52

    Roots spews:

    when I read the bulk of your comments, it is clear that in addition to most “leaders” in our state, the HA.org readers don’t get it either. This isn’t funny. Remember if you continue to mate (read and comment) with each other your perspective gene pool will shrink, your thumbs will grow shorter, and soon you won’t be able to reproduce………..thank God.

  47. 54

    uptown spews:

    Funny thing about South Carolina…

    they have an Income Tax -

    for individuals

    South Carolina imposes an income tax on individuals at graduated rates ranging from 3% to a maximum rate of 7%. Income tax brackets are adjusted annually for inflation.

    and for trade or business

    You may elect to have qualifying active trade or business income from a pass-through entity taxed at a flat rate instead of the graduated tax rate for individual income. The rate is 6% for Tax Year 2007, 5.5% for Tax Year 2008, and 5% for tax years beginning after 2008

  48. 55

    GBS spews:

    The same Repubican mantra; Democrats and unions are anti business.

    Yet, when you look at how badly the Reagan Republicans crippled America’s economy that rippled into the world economy, you know Republicans have NO CLUE what they are talking about when it comes to creating jobs and wealth.

    Their version of creating wealth is to create a climate of corruption then screw everyone else.

    It only works for a short time, then everybody pays.

    That’s why the GOP will no longer be a viable national party in 2013.

    We got a lot of work to do to fix what Reagan Republicans broke, but folks, the worst is in our rearview mirror with Repubicans trying to put the wheels back on the “Straight Talk Express.”

  49. 56

    rhp6033 spews:

    I checked out the Boeing website, and looked for the bios of the Board of Directors. By my quick count, they had only one of the eleven directors that had any prior experience in the aerospace business. One. And his name was, not too surprisingly, McDonnell – a holdover from the family of McDonnell of McDonnell-Douglas,who came to the board in 1997 in Stonecipher’s suitcase. The predominant characteristic of the resumes of most of the remaining board members is that they worked in large finance companies. In other words, it shouldn’t be surprising that they see Boeing as a place where you move money around, not as a place where you actually build things.

    Even McNerney, the current CEO, worked in the 1980′s at GE Capital, presumably a protoge of Stonecipher. He had no previous aerospace experience, having been on the board since 2001 while CEO of 3-M. 3-M’s biggest product over the past couple of decades has been – post-it notes.

    None of the Board members had any connection to the Puget Sound region that I could tell from their resumes. None had any obvious manufacturing experience.

  50. 58

    ArtFart spews:

    @56 I rest my case. The only thing “Boeing” about today’s company is the name on the door–and the fact that for some time the suits have been coasting along on on the vision and hard work of those who came before them. It’s becoming Enron with wings.

  51. 59

    ArtFart spews:

    @55 It’s worse than that. The gutless Democratic leadership in the “other” Washington (the one built on a stinky swamp nobody wanted for anything else) are still scared shitless of their opposition and ready to jump under their desks when anybody yells at them–or, like Tim Geithner, they’re really monetarists with a “moderate” veneer who think that as long as they keep propping up the institutions, the people don’t matter. So, even with control of the White House and Congress they’re oh, so carefully sticking band-aids on the bleeding arteries and barely keeping the patient alive until the other side takes over again and ratchets us further into the shithole.

  52. 60

    BleedzRed spews:

    Inevitable. I hope the union slackers can feed their families by consuming old picket signs. Boeing would be wise to move their entire operation to a business friendly state.

  53. 61

    Mr. Concervycal spews:

    Unions have been a whipping boy for managerial incompetence for as long as I can remember. And it is certain that the bigwigs at Boeing are nitwits who live in a bubble.

    Nothing will change until one of their own goes down in an aircraft that has been built on the cheap.

  54. 62

    Mr. Concervycal spews:

    re 60: I hope the new non-union workers in S. Carolina can feed their families on their cheap pay.

  55. 63

    nolaguy spews:

    I think Toyota has been making cars with non-union employees in Alabama (a right to work state) for a few years now.

    I guess Toyota’s days are numbered?

  56. 64

    4thGenDem spews:

    I’m glad I sold my Boeing stock. This reminds me of General Motors in the early 80s. A company that was made up of people who loved cars was hijacked by bean counters in suits. Style and reliability gave way to obsolescence and the likes of the Chevrolet Citation, all for short term gain. Let’s hope that no one ends up doing a Northwest Boeing version of “Roger and Me.”

  57. 65

    a real "Viking" spews:

    the notion the other people can’t make stuff is racist.

    the new englanders thought only they could make shoes and textiles, then it went down south, then abroad and today WE all wear stuff made abroad because it’s cheaper.

    ditto cars steel tv’s computers etc. etc.

    all the folks whining about boeing whining about capitalism etc. are waring shirts from vietnam and rei gloves from china and using printers from singapore and driving kias and hondas and toyotas and subarus. and monteros. and mazdas.

    so it ain’t unions it ain’t boeing folks it’s US.

    do you seriously think your pnw dna is magically superior to chinese dna south carolina dna or india dna?

    how incredibly stupid, racist and ignorant. it’s almost as bad as when scandies decry others for violating human rights as if the vikings didn’t take tens of thousands of slaves!

    so everyone chill out, one world folks, this is good for sc and the “distinction” you see between yourselves and sc and china and india is an illusion created in your own mind.

    god doesn’t love you more than them.

  58. 66

    Christina spews:

    YES!!! All you brilliant Boeing workers should start your own airplane co…..Those Boeing execs are idiots and it is the experienced expert workers in Everett who made this company sucessful…I would love to see them form their own company and compete against those “walmart” machinists in South Carolina!!

  59. 67

    spews:

    @65 complains that objecting to this is racist. The problem–I said @46–is that they’re moving their business away from the loyal people who know how to do it. It’s not that, in time, they can’t train other people to do it–it’s that they don’t have the time. They’ve also shown all the workers, union and non-, that the company management doesn’t care about them, and created a lasting personnel problem. Skilled labor is the backbone of any complex manufacturing process, and Boeing has thrown away the loyalty of their workers.

    There are other reasons why Boeing might wish to stay in the Northwest: sympathetic state and local governments, loyalty, compassion for their workers. All good, practical conservative reasons. Seriously, why are you conservatives defending Boeing management? I can understand you might not like unions. But that’s not a reason to throw away a productive business. WtF?

  60. 68

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @52 “This isn’t funny.”

    Sure it is. Washington gave Boeing $3 billion to build the plane here, Boeing took the taxpayers’ money, and knifed the taxpayers in the back. That’s fucking hilarious! Maybe next time our political leaders will know better than to try bribing thieves with
    no honor.

    Ooooo! Did I criticize Gary Locke? My bad! But remember, the state senate was controlled by the GOP back in 2003, and the Republicans could have said no — but didn’t. So this blowjob is on the dicks of BOTH parties.

  61. 69

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @55 The Republican plan for making America (well, some of it) prosperous is returning to the wage rates and working conditions of 1892.

  62. 70

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @57 That’s gotta be it! South Carolina has an income tax and no B & O tax! That’s why Boeing moved!

  63. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @57 (continued) Specifically, South Carolina has:

    A graduated personal income tax up to 7% on taxable income over $13,350;

    A 6% state sales tax (3% on food), plus local sales taxes;

    A 5% excise (transfer) tax on motor vehicles, motorcycles, boats and motors, and airplanes;

    Real and personal property taxes, but intangible personal property is not taxed;

    No inheritance tax.

  64. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @60 Why do you hate hardworking Americans and their families, and why do you hate Washington, you unpatriotic cunt? Are you a foreign agent provocateur?

  65. 75

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    74. Roger Rabbit spews:

    @67 I think we should sue Boeing to get our 3 billion bucks back.

    Go for it Rog…with your easy money stock profiteering.
    That’s right, you do nothing with your own money except hoard it.
    Blowhard.,

  66. 76

    spews:

    You can be hit and miss, Goldy, but you nailed it here. The blame game and whining is secondary to the reality that ultimately this was all about Boeing doing what they wanted.

  67. 77

    Willgetsome spews:

    Goldy,

    You sound like some of the people I work with. But sadly, you are all misguided.

    While I don’t have any love the current Boeing leadership, their recent decision to set up a 2nd 787 line in SC was a sound one.

    Here are the main reasons:

    1) Diversify manufacturing operations in order to mitigate risks associated with:

    a) strikes
    b) disasters (both man-made and natural)

    2) Reduce costs (SC is much cheaper than the Puget Sound)

    ———————-

    To date the weakest counter argument made by those who hate this decision is also the most arrogant: “they are too dumb in SC to make airplanes”.

    Well, anybody who has seen the 787 manufacturing line knows that there is not really much there. Big assemblies come in and get put together with a few fixtures. Wiring is performed, etc. The overhead crane is the major infrastructure there.

    There are lots of workers in places like St. Louis, Wichita, SoCal, etc. who are looking for work and can fill the job slots in SC. These folks are just as capable and smart as IAM workers in Seattle. The “intelligence” argument is so obnoxious it make me sick. Unfortunately, its all too common in this town.

  68. 78

    Willgetsome spews:

    how many cars in Seattle are made in Japan, and Korea? A third?

    How many commenters complaining about loyalty buy printers made in Singapore…?

    China is about to buy Volvo.

    Will we stop buying Volvos?

    Don’t think so.

    Do you buy …say, Coleman lanterns or little bike lights only if made in USA? They’re from China, aren’t they?

    Most REI stuff is.

    WE BUY CHEAPER STUFF and manufacturers respond to that. Sure there’s quality problems at first, then they learn, just like Japan and Hong Kong and Korea did and China and India are on the verge of learning. In fact we’ll all probably be buying the electric mini cars from India in ten years.

    There isn’t one commenter on this site with a TV made in America.

    Viking just OWNED this whole board…to include Goldy.

  69. 80

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Puddy–
    Have you noticed how angry & vile KLOWNS get when businesses exercise their RIGHT to go where they please?
    How these KLOWNS get amnesia that more than half the sh*t in their houses and garages were made by slave labor…but that’s ok??

    They are misguided…looooosers.
    Lead by the King of Perpetual Unemployment..YLB.

    Keep bashin’ business YLB…the floodgates are open on Seattle.
    Lots of businesses are QUIETLY moving right under your nose.
    But keep bashin’ them as the moving vans keep on truckin.
    IDIOTS.

  70. 81

    Counterpoint spews:

    It was not the ten year contract that the IAM offered, but the gurantees they wanted in the 10 year contact. Guranteed raises, pension increases, all new airplane program be done in Puget Sound, and significant retirement enhancements. It was an untenable 10 year contract the IAM wanted. Convenient how those pesky details never get shared. The IAM did this to themselves. As a Boeing employee I would rather have seen the work stay here obviously, but the IAM did this to themselves.

  71. 82

    Less Isbetter spews:

    Ah, gee, Goldie, you mean the enormous tax burden of welfare to keep your silly bankrupt corporation named Boeing is going to die.

    Hey, Goldie, I would give Boeing to China to get this damned albatross off of the taxpayers neck.

    Can you say welfare. Well, if you can’t read the history of that sack of shit called Boeing.

    Remember those great planes of WW II that were build by Boeing. The “fortresses.” Well, they were pieces of shit that did not get the gas mileage of the British Mosquito bombers and couldn’t carry a half as much weight with a crew three times the size of the Brits.

    But your area built those ungodly expensive pieces of crap. Why, well, goldy, I’m sorry to tell you but every damn politician from Washington to the federal level was a crooked sob paid off by Boeing. Yeah, all of those in the congress forever assholes were as crooked as Boeing.

    Then you could get that patriotic thrill as they build the B29 superfortress that was a logistical nightmare. That got something like 98 gallons to the mile. Hey, it was patriotic.

    Then you built the B52s. That went well, didn’t it? By the end of the Vietnam War ever single damn one of them had been shot down. Yeah, there are no old B52s, they were all shot down. But your Boeing got contracts to rebuild the entire force of defective B52s. Hey, remember the “will the last person out of Seattle, turn out the lights?” But you rebuilt that force of shit planes.

    Proud, yeah, put a flag on that fucking huge building in Everett, but never ever say “we build expensive shit for the military.” Not good, not even acceptable, but shit for the military.

    You know what Goldy, I hope you ride the rails down to the Detroit level for not admitting that the entire economy of Seattle has not been build on high paying welfare for the last 70 years. Patriotic, bullshit, on the public tit for huge amounts, yeah. Don’t ever show me a picture of a minority of a welfare queen.
    Show me a proud Boeing worker punching out after building shit for 70 years.

    I feel your pain. Move to China.

  72. 83

    spews:

    n in Seattle
    You speak with the merit of the Eagle. I fear and pray against your speech. As a native, I am in sorrow against which I fear approaches our northland.

  73. 84

    spews:

    Less Ib.
    How do you speaking Cantonese? Because perhaps you’d feel more comfortable in their culture?
    Tell me a culture that’s doing any different?
    or representing themselves otherwise??

  74. 86

    JTHC spews:

    Ultimately the IAM shot itself in the foot. They’re surprised that Boeing didn’t respond to their offer? Their offer was a no-strike promise for 10 years in return for perks and benefits. I think Boeing wanted no-strikes as the very baseline assumption, not as a bargaining chip. This last round of strikes cost them a billion dollars and many angry customers–why should Boeing ever mess around with IAM ever? Would you?