by Darryl, 12/14/2012, 11:05 AM

Via the AP:

Twenty-seven people, including 18 children, have been killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in suburban Connecticut…

Via ABC:

One shooter is described as 24-years-old, armed with four weapons and wearing a bullet-proof vest, sources tell ABC News.

Clearly, something isn’t working. Perhaps it’s time we listen to the gun rights activists. To paraphrase Portland gun advocate Kirby Ellis’ words in response to the recent Portland-area mall shooting:

“By allowing kids to carry firearms it actually gives them a chance to protect themselves in ways…if the police are not available, or they could be moments away”

“In light of the recent school shooting in Connecticut, not allowing kids to carry weapons only puts our children more at risk.”

“With the policies in place that don’t allow students to carry firearms in school, the only thing they really could do is try to seek cover and wait for the police to get there.”

So it’s clear, then…it’s absolutely the only conceivable thing that could be done to stop these tragedies….

87 Responses to “Guns don’t kill children, restrictive gun laws kill children”

1. MikeBoyScout spews:

Repeating what I said downstairs
I’d love to read someone who thinks the most important part of the 2nd Amendment is “shall not be infringed” tell us how they’d explain this to those children, who shall never forget this day, all about how that phrase justifies the death of their schoolmates.

And if they feel up to it, how to explain the risk of random execution to any elementary school child.

2. MikeBoyScout spews:

And Kirby Ellis obviously requires serious mental health treatment.

3. MikeBoyScout spews:

Republican WINGNUTS are killing you … and your children

Sweeping changes in Michigan’s concealed handgun law go beyond allowing weapons in ‘gun free zones’

The state House on Thursday passed the bill 68-41 and sent it to Gov. Rick Snyder, one of many laws sped through a lame-duck session that did not conclude until early Friday morning.

Aside from allowing concealed pistols in schools and other places, a number of measures are aimed at streamlining a permit process critics say remains far from uniform statewide.
[snip]
Most of the attention on the new bill has focused on provisions allowing hidden handguns in places where they are now forbidden, such as schools, churches and large entertainment venues.

The new law continues the minimum eight hours of training required to obtain a concealed pistol license. But effective May 1, it boosts firing-range requirements from 30 rounds to 98. Those who complete an additional eight hours of training and another 94 rounds on the firing range are eligible to carry in so-called gun-free zones.

4. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Let me get his straight, the gun advocate you mentioned, says the kids should have been armed? Did he not notice that this was an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

I am for the 2nd Amendment myself, but am also one who believes that there should be reasonable restrictions, including not haviing kids armed, and some weaponry should be out of civilian hands, (Like Infantry Automatic Rifles, Squad Automatic Weapons, and machine guns), or at least restricted.

Remember when Representative Giffords was shot? There was somebody there, with a concealed weapon, drew his own gun, but then put it away without shooting. Turned out, he almost shot the person who had taken the gun away from the shooter.

5. Darryl spews:

EvergreenRailfan,

Let me get his straight, the gun advocate you mentioned, says the kids should have been armed? Did he not notice that this was an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?

Nope. He was referring to the Portland shooting. I paraphrased what he said, and updated it for the Connecticut context.

6. rhp6033 spews:

Okay, the idea that elementary school students should all be armed against the possibility of a random shooter is patently ridiculous, as we all know. Just think of all the schoolyard scuffles which might get elevated to gunplay – aside from the mere accidental incidents!

But another “compromise” gun proponants advance is that the teachers and the administrators should be armed.

Let’s think about that for a moment. The shooter was wearing body armor. How many teachers/administrators would have sufficient skills, in the context of an adrenalen-fueled situation, to successfully make a head shot? Lots of soldiers and cops can’t do that – which is why they are told to aim for the “body mass”.

Secondly, when the police arrive, knowing little other than that there is a shooting, having civilians with guns raises the possibility (probability) that the teachers & administrators will be shot by the police. This increases if smoke/tear gas is added to the mix.

Hey, I learned to shoot by age 8, and was involved in shooting competitions for several years thereafter. I know a few things about guns, and I’m not for outlawing all guns. But how many ways can we say that this is a bad idea?

7. EvergreenRailfan spews:

5)

Sorry about that. I usually take a second look before commenting. Although, I am sure the NRA is probably already working on a statement like the paraphrasing you made. Unfortunately, I am almost used to that.

8. Darryl spews:

EvergreenRailfan,

Yup…sarcasm is tough. It’s too easy to confuse with actual statements coming from the right wing loony brigade.

9. YLB spews:

I am so fucking sick of this shit..

Note to the asshats among us:

in suburban Connecticut…

10. rhp6033 spews:

Lets review the reasons for owning a firearm, and whether or not it applies to automatic (or semi-automatic rifles) and handguns.

1. Target Shooting. A bolt-action rifle is best for this sport, automatic weapons just draw you off-target.

2. Hunting. If you can’t drop your kill with one shot, you have no business hunting. It’s all part of the challenge, to get close enough to make a clean kill. Any fool can hit a target with an automatic rifle and a long clip.

3. Home Defense. A double 12 guage works best here. Lots of stopping power, and the rounds are less likely to go through the walls and hit your neighbors in their bedroom.

4. Personal Defense. The gun is more likely to be taken away from you than it is for you to be able to draw, aim, and shoot. Even if succeed in getting your gun out of your holster/pants/purse, the adrenalin rush of a firefight makes it very unlikely you will hit a target. After all, there are videos of trained police officers unloading a clip at a suspect 15 feet away and missing entirely. And in a serial shooting case, recent shooters are wearing body armor.

5. “Survivalist” mode. This is what they are really defending. They think that the President is the Antichrist who will turn the U.S. over to the U.N., and they will have to retreat to the mountains to avoid taking the “Mark of the Beast”, and defend themselves there. A related theme is to create a militia to support various secession movements.

Look, I don’t care how many firearms you have, they aren’t going to help much against tanks, artillary, drones, and air strikes. Their collection of semi-auto rifles, converted to full automatic, will be useless against a Napalm strike. And the romantic notion of a hidden fortress in the mountains is laughable in light of current infrared binocular systems used from aircraft.

11. Roger Rabbit spews:

It’s time to amend either the composition of the Supreme Court or the Second Amendment.

12. Tea for everyone spews:

Yes and a Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China

http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story

So let’s be sure while we are at it we take knives and axes and picks and shovels and Ice Picks, razors, BBQ tools etc while we are at it! A crazed slasher with a samurai sword can do as much damage as any gun weilding idiot!

13. MikeBoyScout spews:

@11 Roger,
Our 2nd Amendment reads:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I understand how emphasis can be placed on one or the other two clauses in that sentence, even though I would not agree with reading it that way.

I don’t know that we need to amend the Constitution.

I do know that every right comes with responsibilities which constrain the right.
I think it is far past time we, as a wanna be civil society (a.k.a. “free state”), discuss the responsibilities of citizens and governments to maintain any right to keep and bear arms.

I don’t know how many useless executions (of CHILDREN!) it will take, but it is far past time.

14. MikeBoyScout spews:

Eleven facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States

Mother Jones has tracked and mapped every shooting spree in the last three decades. “Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their weapons legally:

15. dont bogart it dude spews:

9. YLB spews:
I am so fucking sick of this shit..

Note to the asshats among us:

in suburban Connecticut…

12/14/2012 AT 12:21 PM

good job YLB,..way to lowbrow a tragedy. 20 kindegartners are dead and all YLB can think of is “I can do a gotcha!”

you arent even worth beating the shit out of.

back to the subject at hand….
the real question is what the hell is compelling people to do this shit.

16. EvergreenRailfan spews:

10) California has some of the toughest regulations on assault rifles, but even they have loopholes. One is, detached magazines are illegal, but that has only seen manufacturers find a way around it, just need a screwdriver or even another bullet to remove the magazine to reload.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California#Bullet_Button

Except for maybe competitive target shooting, just the fact one owns one, or maybe big game hunting(and it is a stretch), I don’t know why a civilian would want a .50 Rifle. At least the Raufoss cartridge(I believe that is the one that is Depleted Uranium, Armored Piercing, Incendiary) should be out of civilian hands, as it is the most dangerous. California banned .50 caliber rifles, but there was a loophole in that, it specifically banned rifles chambered for the .50 BMG round, manufacturers came up with something as good, including Barrett( their .416 round).

I heard somewhere a while back, that one of our local police department SWAT Teams has a couple of those rifles.

17. Roger Rabbit spews:

Has terrorism been ruled out? They just said on NBC the shooter was “carrying someone else’s ID.” So it’s not clear who the shooter was, or what his motive was. Could this be a terrorist act?

18. dont bogart it dude spews:

Look, I don’t care how many firearms you have, they aren’t going to help much against tanks, artillary, drones, and air strikes. Their collection of semi-auto rifles, converted to full automatic, will be useless against a Napalm strike. And the romantic notion of a hidden fortress in the mountains is laughable in light of current infrared binocular systems used from aircraft.

tell that to the taliban or iraqi insurgents…seemed/s to work pretty well for them….

19. dont bogart it dude spews:

16. Roger Rabbit spews:
Has terrorism been ruled out? They just said on NBC the shooter was “carrying someone else’s ID.” So it’s not clear who the shooter was, or what his motive was. Could this be a terrorist act?

12/14/2012 AT 1:00 PM

I dont think so Roger…one brother may have had the other brother’s ID?? seems like thats what I am hearing…

20. Roger Rabbit spews:

@17 A Pakistan sanctuary and willingness of suicidally fanatical fighters to take 100% casualties works a lot better. It also helps to live in a culture where the average female bears 10 children to keep your ranks supplied with cannon fodder.

21. Roger Rabbit spews:

@14 Hasn’t the gun-loving right has asked for it by embracing an untenable and indefensible position on gun access? I don’t see how blame for these tragedies can be laid on those who argue for reasonable gun regulation.

22. Tea for everyone spews:

You cannot take the Madman out of the Madman.. You can start banning all you want, but the Madman will still win.

It’s unfortunate that all your attention is always the Gun, when the Madman is the real issue. It shows how simplistic the answer seems. But

They are generally far sicker, brighter and more creative than anyone imagines.

23. Roger Rabbit spews:

It isn’t just guns, though. As I have argued for years, it is our culture of violent movies and video games that creates the mind capable of such acts by depersonalizing and desensitizing the very act of taking human life. It’s bad enough that our military creates killers and then dumps them back into society, but for several generations now, our entertainment industry has been turning children into killers from the moment they’re born.

24. ArtFart spews:

@21 Agreed. In recent years it’s become even worse, as the suits who run Hollywood have decided that digital gore is so much more cost-effective than decent acting or a good script.

25. MikeBoyScout spews:

David Frum says it like it is
Every Day is the Day to Talk About Gun Control


Nor can anybody promise that more rational gun laws would prevent each and every mass murder in this country. Gun killings do occur even in countries that restrict guns with maximum severity.

But we can say that if the United States worked harder to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, there would be many, many fewer atrocities like the one in Connecticut.

And I’ll say: I’ll accept no lectures about “sensitivity” on days of tragedy like today from people who work the other 364 days of the year against any attempt to prevent such tragedies.

It’s bad enough to have a gun lobby. It’s the last straw when that lobby also sets up itself as the civility police. It may not be politically possible to do anything about the prevalence of weapons of mass murder. But it damn well ought to be possible to complain about them – and about the people who condone them.

There’s really not too much that I can say Frum and I totally agree upon. Maybe this is it.
Go read the whole thing.

26. Michael spews:

There’s something seriously wrong with a culture which thinks it’s OK for children to watch acts of violence, but it isn’t OK for those same children to see a woman’s nipple. Sorry, it’s the violence that’s harmful to kids, not the nipple.

27. Michael spews:

It’s way past time for our country to have a frank, open, and honest conversation about cultural violence (gun fetish’s, violence in video games, music and popular culture, sexual violence toward women and people who excuse/deny it exists) & mental heath care (we need better quality care, 100% access, and removal of stigmas around mental illness). We need to talk about income inequality and the lack of a bright future for many in America as well.

And, yes, we need to talk about gun laws. But, without the larger, broader discussion we will still be left with a violent culture, with the mentally ill going untreated, and with women in abusive relationship and a rate of violence towards women that’s disturbingly high.

There’s many pieces to this puzzle beyond simply access to firearms and we need to talk about all the pieces, not just guns.

28. YLB spews:

“I can do a gotcha!”

You reap what you sow asshat…

You moved to the ‘burbs to isolate yourself from people you hate.. Well the madness of gun fetishism can only follow fools like you.

Still scared?

Moron.

29. MikeBoyScout spews:

Michael & Roger,
Yes, there’s is more than just an unprecedented amount of well designed killing devices (300 million) in the hands of so many which leads to such a tragic and unexplainable act of violence.

The reason we don’t talk about it, seriously, is because there is ONE political party which routinely uses its political and economic power to prevent such discussion.

Today’s execution of children in Connecticut is only a crystalline tragic moment of the results of 30 years of accepting as reasonable a political philosophy which is at odds with the principle of government of the people, by the people, for the people.

30. dont bogart it dude spews:

@26

stay classy there YLB.

20 kids are dead and all YLB cares about “gotchas”

notice YLB has said nothing about what a tragedy it is….

getting to the subject, again….@21 – what you say has a lot of truth in it Roger. Overt violence in our media and a loss of any moral compass in our society, and this is the kind of behavior we can expect more and more of I guess.

the subject of gun control is a red herring for the simple minded to chase – it wont fix anything…..the problem is behavior and understanding how people can do such terrible acts.

31. MikeBoyScout spews:

The Onion, rapidly showing itself to be one of our nation’s best journalistic enterprises, does it again.

Right To Own Handheld Device That Shoots Deadly Metal Pellets At High Speed Worth All Of This

NEWTOWN, CT—Following today’s mass shooting that left 20 young children dead at a Connecticut elementary school, numerous sources across the country reported that their government-protected right to own a portable device that propels small masses of metal through the air at lethal rates of speed is completely worth any such consequences. “It’s my God-given right and a founding principle of this country that I be able to own a [piece of metal that launches other smaller pieces of metal great distances, one after the other], and if a few deaths here and there is the price we have to pay for that freedom, then so be it,”

It’s “funny” because it is exactly what the NRA and its Republican supplicants truly believe.

32. YLB spews:

28 – Kinda early to be hittin the sauce.. And at home too.. What an example you’re setting.

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW PERIOD..

And stop lying.. That’s sets a bad example too.. Not that you care.

33. Michael spews:

@27
It’s an 80%-20%, thing. Mostly it’s the right in this country refusing to discuss living in a modern society where all people are equal and there are reasonable limits on things like firearms. But, the Democrats haven’t done much on mental health, they haven’t done much to make sure working class kids have a bright future, & the left has fought against limits on violence on video games and in the media.

What we need to do now is have that conversation that larger conversation and show anyone who want to black that conversation from happening the door.

This is about way more than just access to guns,

34. Michael spews:

Oops typo’s galore.

What we need to do now is have that larger conversation and show anyone who wants to block that conversation from happening the door.

This is about way more than just access to guns.

35. MikeBoyScout spews:

@31 Michael,
Historically the Democratic party has done quite a lot on mental health.
The Republican party has a bit of a different history when it comes to mental health.
Ronald Reagan and the Commitment of the Mentally Ill: Capital, Interest Groups, and the Eclipse of Social Policy

..the 1980s were sweeping and marked a turning point in American domestic policy. Faced with increasing competition from overseas, American business found it necessary to alter the social contract. This would require a realignment of the political economy so as to weaken labor unions and the social safety net. In Reagan, the Right found a spokesman capable of aligning conservatives, centrists, and working class whites. With this coalition, Reagan was able to bring about a number of reactionary changes in public policy

36. MikeBoyScout spews:

@31 Michael,
and adding to the already too long comment @33, the best and most economic remedy to mental health care is National Health Insurance. The Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. ObamaCare) took a small (Heritage Foundation!) step towards that end, and what was the Republican party’s reaction to it?

38. Roger Rabbit spews:

@35 And that proves what? That our kids are better off if we let our crazies have guns so they won’t resort to knives?

If you posted them in defense of the rightwing’s ideology of easy access to guns, you’re the dumbest turd ever to spit out of a monkey’s ass.

39. Reality spews:

@36 No, not in defense of anything. Evil crazy people will kill with whatever they can get their hands on, I actaully believe that buying a gun needs to be tied to very strict mental-health/deep-background checks, and that it needs to be far easier to commit mentally-ill people.

40. herzog spews:

From Mediaite:
” Mike Huckabee said that we shouldn’t be surprised that schools have become a place of carnage after Americans have rejected teaching about life and responsibility by “removing God from our schools.”

God has never been part of our schools, unless of course you went to a wingnut school.

41. Michael spews:

@33,34

Like I said before it’s an 80-20 thing. The problem is overwhelming the political right in America, but I don’t think you can absolve the left of all blame.

42. Michael spews:

t needs to be far easier to commit mentally-ill people.

We need a nation wide Laura’s Law. I really hate saying that. But we do need it.

Laura’s Law is a California state law that allows for court-ordered assisted outpatient treatment or forced anti-psychotics in most cases. To qualify for the program, the person must have a serious mental illness plus a recent history of psychiatric hospitalizations, jailings or acts, threats or attempts of serious violent behavior towards [self] or others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura's_Law

43. Politically Incorrect spews:

Should we also limit the government’s ability to own firearms?

44. MikeBoyScout spews:

@39 Michael,
The “left” and the Democratic party are not the same thing. You can find Democratic politicians who are or were not for National Health Insurance, but I challenge you to find someone of “the left” who is not for it.

Alternatively, find me a Republican for National Health Insurance.

45. MikeBoyScout spews:

@41 Politically Incorrect,

We already do limit our government’s ability to keep and bear arms (e.g. New START, Seabed Treaty, Chemical Weapons Convention…)

46. rhp6033 spews:

Bogart # 14: I was waiting for it, and right on cue, Bogart responds:

“good job YLB,..way to lowbrow a tragedy. 20 kindegartners are dead and all YLB can think of is “I can do a gotcha!”

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!

It’s just one of the typical right-wing responses to a serious topic. First, call the other side names. Then, as in this example, accuse the other side of insensitivity for daring to discuss the larger issue, instead of burying it until it fades from memory.

It’s their only way to defend the indefensible.

47. MikeBoyScout spews:

@44 rhp6033,
It’s their only way to defend the indefensible.
It may not be their only way, but slinging bullshit has been very effective … at making us all worse off, hasn’t it?

48. MikeBoyScout spews:

American Exceptionalism: The Shootings Will Go On

No one has been killed on American soil through what we define as an act of “terrorism” in more than a decade, but countless elements of our life are still shaped and warped by the open-ended “war on terror.” (Or, if you count the Ft. Hood shooting as “terrorism,” 13 people have been killed.)

Thousands of people die every year from gun violence, an unspeakable number at schools, and — we mourn and “move on.” “Nothing to be done.”

49. Michael spews:

@42

The “left” and the Democratic party are not the same thing

My bad, I meant Democratic party folks and electeds.

50. bluestater spews:

So where are all those right-to-lifers when we need them to come forward?

51. MikeBoyScout spews:

@47 Michael,
Fair enough, but you’ve missed my larger point.
Sure, some Democrats are culpable for failing to support our country’s need for adequate mental health care.
But the larger point is that (at least in the past 4 years) ALL elected Republicans will fight tooth and nail to prevent us from caring for our own.
ALL.

52. Richard Pope spews:

Okay Darryl — just how do you consider your taking political license with Kirby Ellis’ statement to be a PARAPHRASE?

a restatement of a text or passage giving the meaning in another form, as for clearness; rewording.

It is excellent for SARCASM, and is certainly an attempt at ANALOGY (whether or not such analogy is proper, is a legitimate arena for debate).

But Ellis was actually saying that shopping mall customers — by clear implication adults who are lawfully allowed to carry firearms in general under Oregon law — should be able to carry their firearms in shopping malls as well. (Most shopping malls are private property, and have signs at the entrances with a dozen or more rules — including prohibitions on having firearms, and requirements to wear shoes and shirts for that matter.)

Ellis believes that such firearms restrictions prevent law-abiding citizens from defending themselves against crazed shooters, etc. in shopping malls. By contrast, mall owners see firearms restrictions as more beneficial, since they want to discourage thugs who might be armed, and also worry that otherwise law-abiding citizens might get angry or overreact at times …

I don’t know whether Ellis believes children should be able to carry firearms, or whether he believes firearms should be carried in public schools at all. But Ellis certainly didn’t say that in the article you linked, and you have gotten a lot of people to believe that Ellis basically said elementary school students should be allowed to carry firearms.

53. YLB spews:

Where’s the asswipe troll?

Could he have finally remembered..

That’s he’s supposed be gone from this “dead place”?

By now?

Poor troll – just can’t stay away.. Too addicted to hating others. Even puddyidiot is too scarce these days.. After his hated “community organizer” prevailed against billions of right wing money he can’t muster the nerve to keep on selling right wing bullshit.

Oh well..

54. MikeBoyScout spews:

If you can type and click, at least do one small thing about this problem today.

Sign the White House Petition on gun control.

Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress.

55. EvergreenRailfan spews:

bluestater @48

Good point, just like the marriage defenders when celebrities get divorced. Although as we have seen, Huckabee has already weighed in. Don’t know about other Right to Lifers.

56. Michael spews:

@49
No, I got that and I agree with you.

57. dont bogart it dude spews:

44. rhp6033 spews:
Bogart # 14: I was waiting for it, and right on cue, Bogart responds:

“good job YLB,..way to lowbrow a tragedy. 20 kindegartners are dead and all YLB can think of is “I can do a gotcha!”

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!

It’s just one of the typical right-wing responses to a serious topic. First, call the other side names. Then, as in this example, accuse the other side of insensitivity for daring to discuss the larger issue, instead of burying it until it fades from memory.

It’s their only way to defend the indefensible.

12/14/2012 AT 3:27 PM

clueless response, as expected, by RHP.

58. Roger Rabbit spews:

@28 Bullshit. Double bullshit.

We’re going to have this conversation about how gun-nut policies enable these tragedies, and if gun nuts don’t like it, they can go to hell.

The rest of us have had enough, and I hope this incident proves to be the tipping point that kicks the stool from under the rightards’ gun fetishism.

59. Roger Rabbit spews:

@29 They’ll sing a different tune when it’s their first-grader who is lying dead in a pool of blood in a grade-school corridor with his/her brain material splattered on the wall.

60. Roger Rabbit spews:

@37 You certainly didn’t make that clear @35.

61. dont bogart it dude spews:

@56

news is reporting that the deceased mom was the one who bought the firearms – dont know how true that is, but how do you keep a law-abiding 50+ mom and teacher from purchasing a weapon? is she a threat?

The fact is this: Any major change to gun laws is going to have to come from a constitutional amendment….good luck with that, because it will never happen….there arent enough politicians with enough ballzack to do that – hell, they cant even put together a balanced budget, much less altering the constitution.

there are some fucked up twisted people out there – time to find out why there are so many.

62. Roger Rabbit spews:

@38 So Huckabee thinks letting mentally ill people have easy access to guns won’t be a problem if we have school prayer?

Does anyone need to ask why Democrats think Republicans are stupid jackasses?

63. Roger Rabbit spews:

@41 What’s your point? Do you have one?

64. Roger Rabbit spews:

@48 According to their thinking, your right to life ends the moment you’re born. From then on you’re one of two things (or perhaps both): (a) collateral damage (b) cannon fodder.

65. herzog spews:

@60 Perhaps Huckabee thinks God allowed it to happen as punishment for removing Him from schools.

66. MikeBoyScout spews:

@60 Roger,
Does anyone need to ask why Democrats think Republicans are stupid jackasses?

I think the time has come and gone trying to prove most Republicans and their policies are teh stoopid.

It’s a given. The evidence is overwhelming. If we can’t get Republicans to stipulate they are teh stoopid, can we at least get them to stipulate that we will judge them as stupid irrational wingnuts until they prove otherwise?

And F*ck Huckabee! He doesn’t even know his GD bible. Matthew 18:20.

67. No time for Fascists spews:

Over at red state, they have a lead article that boils down to “this wouldn’t happen if American was just Christian and it’s only happening because American has drifted so far away from God.”
And the comments are decidedly calling him wrong headed.

Seriously? You think this is the time to bring up God, and how the nation has drifted away from him? As in, if we had not done that then this would not have happened?
Erickson, I have a lot of respect for you but this is not the time to score political points.

Im just making the point that a national commenter starting to make a big political/religious issue out of dead kids before they are put in the ground is way out of bounds. In a week, yes. But now? I dont have words. We dont know what happened, we dont know what type of insanity it was. Evil, sure. But to use this in any way, at this moment? Sorry, Im so angry at the moment I may become impolite.

Yeah. And God hates Fags. Youre all straying into Phelps country. just saying. This has really made me think about my fellow christians.

And they banned the guy who posted that last piece.

68. Roger Rabbit spews:

@59 “Any major change to gun laws is going to have to come from a constitutional amendment….good luck with that, because it will never happen….”

First of all, I’m not sure an amendment is required; replacing a couple of Supreme Court judges might be sufficient.

Secondly, today’s events (in conjunction with all those of hte past) strongly argue that a constitutional amendment is overdue, if that’s what it takes to get guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them. In which case, every adult American with voting rights should strongly support such an amendment, and there’s something seriously wrong with those who won’t.

Third, if we can’t pass the amendments/laws necessary to prevent this kind of carnage in the future, then we should consider enacting another constitutional amendment that would take the right to vote away from anyone who opposes the passage of such amendments/laws. Heh – just kidding, that’s a liberal joke.

69. YLB spews:

there are some fucked up twisted people out there – time to find out why there are so many.

LOL!!!

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America

Heh.. Haven’t looked too closely but I don’t see Seattle on that list..

Sure see a lot of ‘burby type places though..

Kind of places that asshats adore.

Look in the mirror jerkus!

70. No time for Fascists spews:

And in free rep, they are saying nasty stuff like:

It’s obviously a conspiracy by the left to make people go insane so the left can enact gun control.

I’m beginning to believe that at least some of these bad actors have been programmed to carry out these heinous assassinations in order to push public opinion in the direction of stronger gun control, and ultimately, complete disarmament of the American population.
Once that’s achieved, the enslavement of our people will be complete.

I think he must have seen Obama partying with PSY and decided to “get in their faces” and get revenge…. kill the Yankee’s and their families. I mean after all if its good enough for Obama…

We need to ban public schools. Especially the high capacity ones.

“Not you. Not mine. Not ever.”

Time to arm & train all non-union teachers.

Obama promises ‘meaningful action’ after Newtown school shooting (Obama’s Reichstag Fire?)

Barry has killed more kids with his pro-abortion votes than all school shooters combined.

71. MikeBoyScout spews:

@59
how do you keep a law-abiding 50+ mom and teacher from purchasing a weapon?

Not that preventing the woman is an answer to gun violence, but to answer your question – Education. Consistent, constant, accurate education about the deadly nature of guns.

72. dont bogart it dude spews:

@66

good luck with that.

73. dont bogart it dude spews:

69. MikeBoyScout spews:
@59
“how do you keep a law-abiding 50+ mom and teacher from purchasing a weapon?”

Not that preventing the woman is an answer to gun violence, but to answer your question – Education. Consistent, constant, accurate education about the deadly nature of guns.

12/14/2012 AT 5:38 PM

ummmmmm, ok. but what if she still wants one?

74. MikeBoyScout spews:

@71, she gets one. We’re never going to eliminate gun violence, but we can damn sure do a whole lot better than we’re doing.

75. dont bogart it dude spews:

@72

on that we agree.

76. MikeBoyScout spews:

Well, Washington’s own and Chairwoman of the House Republican Conference, Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA05) has a response to the unprovoked execution of 20 children today
Cathy McMorris Rodgers: ‘We have to be careful’ about new gun laws

“We need to find out what happened and what drove this individual to this place,” she said when asked about a potential review of gun laws. “I think we have to be careful about new, suggesting new gun laws. We need to look at what drives a crazy person to do these kind of actions and make sure that we’re enforcing the laws that are currently on the books. And yes, definitely, we need to do everything possible to make sure that something like this never happens again.”

Because 20 children were murdered today in Connecticut because we’ve not been careful enough about suggesting new gun laws.

Republicans, making stoopid look easy – daily.

77. dont bogart it dude spews:

Politicians are not smart people…thats why they are politicians.

78. YLB spews:

Politicians are not smart people…thats why they are politicians.

LOL!! And right wing billionaires are – like Sheldon Adelson spending 100 million and losing 99 percent of it.

Heh.. How’d that “Obama is another Hoover” bullshit work out for you? The former “community organizer” sure put to shame all those right wing billions wasted on Romney..

Hoover served only one term stupid.

79. Michael spews:

@59

news is reporting that the deceased mom was the one who bought the firearms

That seems to be the case.

is she a threat?

Like a lot of folks in America, she got killed with her own gun.

how do you keep a law-abiding 50+ mom and teacher from purchasing a weapon?

I wouldn’t want to. She’s a law-abiding person who’s of legal age to own a gun. But, it’s also turning out that she had a son with a history of mental illness. Why anyone would have a gun where their mentally ill kid could get ahold of it is beyond me.

80. Michael spews:

Watched some of the TV news tonight. Heard lots and lots of comments about how we need to do a better job on treating mental illness and on keeping guns out of the hand of the mentally ill. I that sounded encouraging.

81. Michael spews:

I could only make it a couple minutes into this nonsense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE7I6B13QSg
On December 14, 2012, the date this response video was recorded, a gunman entered a school in CT armed with Glock, Sig, and AR-15 armaments and started shooting. As of the filming on this video the facts were still emerging. However the whys and hows he did it are less important to you than what will result because of it. Also 1000s of hours of analysis will be provided by the progressive media as the push forward a predicted propaganda that the US is an out of control gun nation and it much be reigned in. That propaganda is aimed at convincing all Americans that you and your guns are the real threat and immediate measures will have to be passed to “keep us safe.” Those measures will include but not be limited to a new and expansive “AWB” as I predicted in “Preparing for the NEW America” video series [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSWUF1m8Ito]. “Congratulations” to non voters or protest voters who have helped keep Obama team in power to “push forward” with this determined disarmament “mandate.” Expect magazine bans, specific type gun bans, features bans, registeration, ammo restrictions, and perhaps even NO grandfathering [discussed] on a federal level. This is not a probability, it’s a coming fact

Please do me and the world a favor and tell this idiot to fuck off.

82. YLB spews:

It’s too funny (and sad) to see the asshat troll, little maxee wankatansky feign concern for child victims of gun violence:

what kind of sick parents send their kids to be brainwashed at a “youth political camp”? I didnt even think such things existed….its almost like a partisan lemming factory.

Wow this is how little maxee shows “concern” for something like 69 murdered kids before they could be turned into “partisan lemmings”.

I bet he’s really “concerned” about these kids from this “partisan lemming factory” too..

83. Michael spews:

I think I’m going to shut down my computer and just leave it off for a day or two. I’ve seen enough.

Take care everyone.

84. YLB spews:

Oh let’s not forget that according to little maxee wankatanksy that folks who raise their kids in Seattle and cities like it are guilty of “child abuse”..

Oh and parents who raised their kids in Newtown, CT are guilty of what exactly?

85. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

This isn’t just about guns.

The NRA is an integral part of the Conservative ‘movement’ and does FAR more than advocate for gun rights.

Conservatives are more fear-motivated than liberals, and the right has discovered that a large slice of their base is able to be motivated over fear of their guns being taken away. There is a significant slice of America that believes that ‘others’ are coming to take their stuff, and this includes the government. A bunker mentality has been stoked, the fear-driven right wing id has been tickled, and the notion that in illegitimate government is coming to confiscate your ‘stuff’ and give it to undeserving blacks/Mexicans/unionists/elite gay liberals/uppity women/etc is central to the fear-stoking.

The success of the NRA has been singular, all the pools of blood across this country notwithstanding, but it’s not really about the guns. It’s about getting the fear-motivated gun owners to hate ‘liberals’ and hate government and vote for Republicans – so they can effect more upward transfer of wealth to fewer hands.

This is about politics, and about society, but it boils down to political power, and money, of course.

86. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Two approaches:

1. Universal access to health care, including comprehensive mental health care.

2. Gun laws comparable in scope and severity with other industrialized/wealthy nations.

87. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

This is interesting…

Gun ownership rates. US unambiguously at the top.

Notable for our jackboot/government-fearing/survivalist bunker-dwellers: Tunisia, in which a popular uprising just recently overthrew the government, has the lowest rate, due to severe restrictions on gun ownership.