CBS News examines the similarities and differences among the five different health insurance reform drafts in Congress:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irwmdDMZVP0[/youtube]
Now examine this mini-debate between Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-1SFncpIw&feature=player_profilepage[/youtube]
This is remarkable. First, Hatch refuses to take sides in the “Obama Death Panel” canard! Hatch then lets loose with a series of blatant lies (“government take-over”, “cut medicare”, “eight in ten of Americans really want their health insurance coverage and don’t want to lose it”, “nameless, faceless bureaucrats setting healthcare”, “single payer”, “government plan”).
Much of what Hatch is saying isn’t simply “alternative interpretations” of facts. They are fabrications that are so discordant with the actual provisions in the drafts that this can only be intentional deceit.
This is what Republicans are reduced to? Putting their senior statesmen on mainstream TV to tell barefaced lies to Americans? I mean, there is a deep tradition of politicians “spinning” facts to their cause. But discarding facts altogether? We tolerate unashamed lying from pundits and political operatives…but a U.S. Senator?
Or perhaps Republicans have become so enmeshed in their lies that they no longer recognize objective truth. This goes beyond deplorable; now it’s just pitiable.
“Putting their senior statesmen on mainstream TV to tell barefaced lies to Americans?”
Obama seems to be doing that all the time.
Remember the “if you make under $200k…” lie?
Oh and it looks like common sense may have won out after all.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
Lies like this, you mean? Democrat at Town Hall claims to be a Doctor, but isn’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Dilbert @ 1
‘Remember the “if you make under $200k…” lie?’
ROTFLMAO!!! You are a poster child for a Wingnut idiot enmeshed in Republican lies.
You fucking moron…unless you are very wealthy or unemployed you’ve received a tax CUT from Obama.
When you are debating people who tell dozens of lies an hour, for money and profit, you should not start rebutting each lie one by one.
You should declare them professional liars.
You should point oout that they’re doing it for money, escribing the obscene profits of the insurers and big pharma and the flow of money to the professional liar party.
It would help if congress fucking outlawed donations from the entire health industry and if Democrats didn’t have a few insurer[paid whores on board, too.
(via Eschaton)
Did you know…
…that aside from Norway and Luxembourg, the country that spends the most tax money on healthcare per capita is the United States?
Signed,
Not Atrios
-Avedon 08:06
We all know what Republicans want: More profits for insurance companies and to hell with ordinary working class Americans who can’t afford to get sick.
@4 No doubt these morons will vote against Obama because he gave them a tax cut.
Btw morons, have you spent all of your $300 Bush Tax Rebate on higher gas, grocery, and utility prices yet?
@6 Yeah, we knew that. It’s the inevitable result of laissez faire health care — no one can afford it, so everyone ends up on the dole. “Laissez faire” is simply a noun for monopoly pricing and destruction of middle class living standards.
Darryl ..
I have a different perspective.
During the campaign, I rared an article by the economist at Harvard, explaining the strategy behind Obama’s proposal. Here are the elements:
1. The American system is broken and must be changed. On the current path healtcare will bankrupt the USA.
This is a truly frightening conclusion, if made explicitly.
2. We know single payer works because economies very similar to our pay from 50% to 25%as much as we do. BUT:
3. The American system is too complex for government to reorganize it into a single payer system.
Anyone at all familiar with Seattle must see this. We have four major, inco0nsistent models here. Many docs still act as independent providers, other belong to group practices that themselves can range in size from a few members to a huge regional cop, hospitals range from government operated to for profit, we have a very successful socialist inspired cooperative program (GH) alongside a state run insurance plan (uniform), etc. Just imagine replacing all of that with a single payer system.
4. The current system is not a free market system. It his a series of overlapping, regional or corporate related monopolies. Like an monopolistic system, ours increases costs.
The Obama proposal is a very moderate one, designed to change this mess by inserting a form of free market, ironically one developed by the government. The “public option” is exactly that.
The idea is to offer an alternative to the current monopolies, an alternative that only can function if itself is efficient. Designing such a system ought not to be a partisan issue.
We already have a public option in WASTATE. As a State employee, I can choose between plans .. Aetna, Primera, GH, or … “uniform.” The State created uniform because the existing options were getting too expensive. I choose Uniform because the other plans are more restrictive on my cyoices ..eg I do nto want to only be able to have my healthcare Group Health Style.
Uniform, BTW, is self financing .. it does not receive any subsidy from the government. It works.
Obama’s plan amounts to offering Uniform nationwide and extending it to all Americans.
Why does this drive the Remnant of the GOP crazy? Imagine thye problems here if Gregoire had the courage to make such a proposal? The Republicans would go nuts because they have no proposals of their own. The Lefties would augment this by pushing for Uniform to cover everyone, including children immigrants, etc. The right to die crowd would ..
The Repubs realize that Obamacare IS sensible, but if it passes he (and the Dems) gain huge clout. So rather than supporting what may be the only sensible answer, they are being destructive. This is a tactic of political desperation, a tactic by ideologues who care more about their party tan about their country.
And bada-boom, bada-bing! Obama is dropping the public option baby!
Sbelius: Public Option not necessary
@4 Until the bill for the $787 BILLION dollar stimulus package comes due.
Or Healthcare “reform”, unless we drive a wooden stake through it’s heart like the blood sucker it is.
Or Cap and Tax.
Or Larry Summers and Timmy G on the Sunday shows last weekend strongly hinting that taxes were headed up.
So $13/week less withholding, not less taxes, just less withholding, mean very little.
Moron.
delbert @ 12
“Until the bill for the $787 BILLION dollar stimulus package comes due.”
Yeah…well you should have though about that before electing George W. Bush, whose policies collapsed the economy and drove us to the brink of disaster. (BTW: Bush’s big treasure hunt in Iraq has cost over $700 billion–and counting.)
“Or Healthcare “reform”, unless we drive a wooden stake through it’s heart like the blood sucker it is.”
You have no fucking idea what the health insurance reform is about. You are just consumed by your party’s lies.
“Or Cap and Tax.”
Huh…that’s interesting, since John McCain was running on a “cap and trade” program, too.
“Or Larry Summers and Timmy G on the Sunday shows last weekend strongly hinting that taxes were headed up.”
Which Obama subsequently debunked.
“So $13/week less withholding, not less taxes, just less withholding, mean very little.”
You fucking dope…the $13/week less withholding is there because of an ACTUAL TAX CREDIT.
Holy shit…your sheer idiocy is stunning!
Darryl, you’re living in the past. This is Obama’s war. This is Obama’s recession. This Obama’s deficit.
BTW, yesterday was the first day I put up some Obama Joker posters. But instead of saying socialism at the bottom, my simply say “EVIL.”
I put up 14 yesterday.
Private insurance works so good in Utah, that their state government had to intervene…
Troll,
“you’re living in the past.”
Nope…you’re swimmin’ in a sea of Wingnut lies.
“This is Obama’s war.”
Obama certainly did inherited Bush’s catastrophic wars. That doesn’t take away Bush’s culpability for pissing away $700 billion for a war built on lies.
“This is Obama’s recession.”
Obama certainly did inherit a recession. But the recession started well before Obama was in office.
“This Obama’s deficit.”
It is certainly true that Obama inherited a fiscal calamity. But it is also true that this year’s deficit came directly or indirectly from Bush. Specifically, it can directly be traced to (1) Bush’s mismanagement of the economy resulting in the need for an expensive recovery effort, (2) Bush’s tax breaks for the rich, (3) Bush’s military adventurism.
Troll @ 14,
“BTW, yesterday was the first day I put up some Obama Joker posters.”
I seriously doubt that your mommy lets you use glue without supervision, Kiddo.
@12, 13
The first cap and trade system in the US was put into place by that huge commie-pinko-liburl George H.W. Bush.
Darryl,
Thanks for posting the videos.
The real action was on MTP this morning.
Rachel Maddow was magnificent. She took apart that sweaty pile of slime and deathbaggery, Dick Armey.
I also noted that Gregory seemed to benefit from having Rachel sitting next to him. He atually asked some good questions and called out the Dickster for the lying SoS he is.
I notice none of the wingnuts want to comment on the CBS report which lays the issues out quite nicely. The current system is unsustainable and something is going to change no matter what the level of screaming.
Hatch is quite a practiced liar when it comes time to killing something that threatens the viability of his ugly party.
The best system is single payer. Hatch is lying when he says that means a government takeover of “everything”. Public option is at best a middling compromise but the ignorance is so overwhelming that even that is probably going to be bargained away in favor of “co-ops”.
All the polls show a majority of Americans support reform, support a public option and even half or so support single payer. But the difference between what a majority of americans want and what’s being hashed out in the Congress is the boatloads of cash being shoveled out by the insurance industry and their rich wingnut allies at politicians, lobbyists and the astroturf outfits rounding up all the screamers at townhalls.
I just took a gander at Meet The Press.
Dick Armey had the last word. The astroturf group he works for has already crafted a name-calling campaign for the “co-ops”.
He’s calling them “freddie and fannie MAD”.
If we don’t wake up – big money gets its way.
@17, Clearly there is plenty of glue involved.
I think they renamed the public option the not-for-profit co-op monitored by (administered through) the Health and Human Services Admin.
Obama needs to cave on the words Public Option.
re 12: And what’s the bill for Iraq? Where’s your outrage and concern?
You’d think these morons opposing healthcare INSURANCE reform are fucking John D. Rockerfeller Jr.
Corporate organization of business enterprise beyond a specific emergency purpose is BANNED in the constitution.
The right is confused and off message.
That’s a fair question.
Here’s another fair question…
Where’s is the outrage from the left over the war and troop deaths?
Once bush left office it’s as if the left forget we are still losing troops.
re 26: Where is your source for that information? How do you measure that? We are not dittoheads here.
Sounds like you are just a cryin’ bitch.
@13 “Holy shit…your sheer idiocy is stunning!”
Not really. We’ve regularly see this level of ignorance and stupidity from all the trolls. Delbert is about average on the Stupid Wingnut Troll scale. What’s “stunning” is the stupidity level of the Average Wingnut Troll and the depth of their collective stupidity.
re 26: I’ve researched your question and determined that the left’s outrage is sufficient.
@14 ” This is Obama’s war. This is Obama’s recession. This Obama’s deficit.”
No. Your organ grinder monkey started this war, recession, and deficit. Republicans start things they can’t finish. Democrats clean up the messes Republicans makes. That’s how it’s always worked, and that’s how it always will work.
@16 “It is certainly true that Obama inherited a fiscal calamity. But it is also true that this year’s deficit came directly or indirectly from Bush.”
Actually, Darryl and Troll, this year’s deficit came DIRECTLY from Bush because we’re still under Bush’s budget. The current federal fiscal year began Oct. 1, 2008 and Obama’s first budget won’t kick in until Oct. 1, 2009. So, this is still Bush’s deficit that Obama is presiding over.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....a_bat.html
Payback’s a bitch, isn’t it?
Payback is, in that case, a crime.
Liberals threaten local man because he has questions about the health plan.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/53313202.html
@33
You people key SUV’s, now you’re getting a taste of your own medicine.
re v35: I don’t key SUV’s. I drive one. What is your point you fucking pussy?
@34
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that Democrats are threatening those who have questions about the health package.
This is the woman who is going to run our new health care system???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
A health care horror story from the socialist hell-hole of France.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....st-version
The French did one thing right: nukular power. That’s how they’re paying for that kid’s health care!
Now here’s a story with a more “capitalist” background:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....-destitute
Plant! Plant! Welfare cheat! Lazy bum! I’m not paying for your health care!
38 Could you Imagine. That woman needs a muzzle. It’s the only thing I can come up with. What a cunt. Thats the same douchebag that introduced the phony doctor at her townhall. God damn, democrats are SCUM.
@26: Once again Marvin (“the idiot”) Stamn (possibly AKA Puddy) brings up a sophomoric point that has already been refuted, rebutted and completely discredited.
Yet Marvin, with a memory like sieve, fails to remember that:
Afghanistan was where the Taliban and al-qaida came from, where they were nututured and where they plotted to attack us on 9/11….not Iraq.
So we wasted 1 trillion going after Saddam, who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.
In the meantime, Stamn’s hero, Bush, failed to get bin Laden and failed to stabilize Afghanistan…turning it into the mess it is now.
When Obama ran for President, he said he would go after al qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan – so he is keeping his promise and keeping us safe.
Only a complete idiot would ask this question:
Hey moron, do you know the difference between a necessary war and an unnecessary one?
Guess not…and all the troops that paid for Iraq with their blood did it because……Bush lied to the American people about the cause for the war. Iraq was NEVER a threat to us.
Iraq did not have wmd’s and Bush knew it and even if they did they had no way to deliver them…what were they going to do, row them across?
That is why people protested. If you can’t even understand something as simple as that …maybe you should go back to elementary school and learn the meaning of the word “threat”, since you are so gullible.
Mark: the racist, sexist fool says:
Yup, just another “good” republican showing how they treat women.
I never called Sarah Palin names. I just let her own words show how incredibly ignorant she is.
It is not her gender that is the problem…it is her lack of knowledge.
42 – That ugly crew – Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Libby, Wolfowitz, Feith, etc, etc.. It seems like such a distant nightmare that you just want to repress lest it rise again and sicken you to the core.
They really put one over on the American people and the screamers at the townhall have the nerve to stand in the way of progress because “it costs too much”.
They don’t understand it will put the country into a deeper hole if we do nothing.
Troll @ 35,
“You people key SUV’s, now you’re getting a taste of your own medicine.”
You retarded imbecile…I own an SUV.
@32 Huh. Rednecks busting Priuses with bats. What’s next on yahoos’ hate list, solar panels?
@34: Wow, you are a moron. The article said he got a death threat. It did not say it was a “liberal” ….it could easily have been a right wingnut parading as a liberal….so what?
The article also talked about how the rightwingnut crazies are lying about “death panels” that don’t exist…..and how the insurance companies are sponsoring some of this madness.
Same old republican lies and disinformation …. brought to you by the same crazies who called FDR a traitor for the new deal and called JFK a traitor for going to ABM defense in place of jets (the fools).
Right wing crazies….as American as racism and sexism.
@34 I don’t see anything in that link about “liberals threatening local man because he has questions about the health plan.”
You’ve linked to a story about a local attorney who gives seminars on living wills who has received threats from anti-Obama idiots who have no clue what a living will is.
Which leads me to conclude you posted the link without having read the news story.
Btw, thanks for posting this item. It shows what a bunch of redneck lamebrains the healthbaggers really are.
@35 The only car-keying around here I’m aware of is being committed by your rightwing asswipe friends.
http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4131001.html
@37 I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that your evidence is a news story you obviously haven’t read about an attorney being hassled by ignorant rightwing fucks.
@42 Stamn is too stupid to be puddy.
(Note: This is NOT an endorsement of puddy’s intelligence — he doesn’t have any — it’s an insulting way of saying Stamn’s IQ is less than zero.)
@44 It’s not even her lack of knowledge; it’s okay to be an imbecile if you can’t help it. She’s annoying because she’s a smug imbecile.
Yep, enmeshed in their lies… Direct from http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_.....Hampshire/
“Let’s take the example of something like diabetes, one of — a disease that’s skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it’s not treated as effectively as it could be. Right now if we paid a family — if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they’re taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that’s $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 — immediately the surgeon is reimbursed. – “the messiah”.
– This group of surgeons has something else to say.
“Yesterday during a town hall meeting, President Obama got his facts completely wrong. He stated that a surgeon gets paid $50,000 for a leg amputation when, in fact, Medicare pays a surgeon between $740 and $1,140 for a leg amputation.”
“We assume that the President made these mistakes unintentionally, but we would urge him to have his facts correct before making another inflammatory and incorrect statement about surgeons and surgical care.”
54 – I suppose this means you support Sarah and her lies about “death panels”. That’s your pattern. Sticking up for the right wing women folks even when they’re talking total bullshit.
Oh by the way, no where in the President’s quote you put up is mentioned anything about medicare – that’s for folks 65 and older – lots of diabetic amputees younger than that.
Ooooops!!!
womdermoron@55, as always your arguments are stupid, imbecilic and moronic. Where do you get that from “the messiah’s” comments. Ohhhh yeah, from the thumb stuck up your ASS that you suck!
BTW wondermoron, who reimburses the surgeons as “the messiah” said in the quote “immediately the surgeon is reimbursed“?
PuddyBud @54,
More of your PuddyWorld™ bullshit.
Obama did not say the surgeon gets reimbursed that much. If you actually bothered reading the comment (and the preceding discussion) Obama is talking about the total cost of an amputation. (That is, the cost of not encouraging preventative health practices.)
There are many, many more costs associated with an amputation than the surgeon’s costs.
Obama’s comment about the surgeon being immediately reimbursed was a contrast to the lack of substantive reimbursement when a physician takes time to advocate preventative health practices.
Knock it off with the bullshit, Puddy. You are embarassing.
Darryl, where did Puddy say or infer
And Darryl if you “paid attention” to wondermoron (well who really does anyway) he claimed
Good try Darryl, but you need to pay attention to what your loony libtardos comment and how one answers them.
So much for you PuddyWorld™ bullshit claim. More DarrylWorld™ bullshit.
PuddyBud,
“Darryl, where did Puddy say or infer
Obama did not say the surgeon gets reimbursed that much.”
Okay, Puddy…two can play that idiotic game. Puddy…where did I say you said the surgeon gets paid that much, ya fucking imbecile?
“And Darryl if you “paid attention” to wondermoron (well who really does anyway) he claimed”
Puddy…I don’t know who “wondermoron” is, and I am not going to bother figuring it out.
“..you need to pay attention to what your loony libtardos comment and how one answers them.”
No I don’t Puddy. I am responding your bullshit comment…KNOCK OFF THE BULLSHIT.
You are almost a perfect example of a person enmeshed in your wingnut lies to the point that you no longer seem to have a grasp on reality (the point of the post).
In person you are nice enough, and seem like an intelligent person. In the comment threads you seem to lose the ability to analyze plain English, present evidence, and make a consistent and coherent argument. Worse yet, you simply lie. You make claims that no rational person should make. That is very disappointing to me.
“So much for you PuddyWorld™ bullshit claim. More DarrylWorld™ bullshit.”
You know, before I met you, I though that, perhaps, you had some type of learning disability that prevented you from having the skills necessary to engage in honest debate. After meeting you, I found myself dumbfounded by many threads you participate in. You come off like a pathological liar, or someone who is so immersed in right-wing bullshit, that reality has ceased to exist.
Do me a favor, Puddy. In the future, try to engage in real, honest, rational debate. Seriously. I hope that someday I can have respect for you again.
re 58: Imply, not infer. Yer a fuckin’ idiot.
In person you are nice enough, and seem like an intelligent person. In the comment threads you seem to lose the ability to analyze plain English, present evidence, and make a consistent and coherent argument. Worse yet, you simply lie. You make claims that no rational person should make. That is very disappointing to me.
It leaves a resonable person to wonder which is the actual character and which the “mask.” I suspect his “true” self is the one he presents here and the one you meet in person is the put-on.
Only one person truly knows, but can he be honest enough with himself to admit the truth?
First off another total jerk, who called old people in Nancy Pelosi’s district brownshirts is ignored as the ASSHole he really is.
You’ve sunk so high into the Dummocraptic anus you’ll never see the real light of day soon through your own eyes.
headless@60:
infer, –
To conclude from evidence or premises
To reason from circumstance; surmise
To lead to as a consequence or conclusion
To hint; imply
Darryl tried to draw a worthless conclusion not explicit in what Puddy wrote regarding what “the messiah” said. Puddy was only responding to the wondermoron’s inference that “Oh by the way, no where in the President’s quote you put up is mentioned anything about medicare”.
Good try loocy. So much for your haughtiness. So much for your knowledge of the English word definitions.
Darryl, this FIEND is totally wedded to right wing bullshit – emotionally, psychologically, physically – every conceivable way.
He lives it, breathes it, swims in it.. There’s nothing anyone can say to shake him out of the wretched state he finds himself.
He’s an addict and there’s no 12 step I know of for his condition.
I diagnose terminal JCH Syndrome.
Now onto Darryl,
Puddy going first person personal.
I could care less WTF you say dude. I was answering the clueless wondermoron. You jumped in with absolutely nothing worthwhile to my response to his drivel. He knows who he is because he continually responds to it. He knows he’s a bottom dweller here. He bragged his wife is a card carrying SEIU union member. Another HA leftist libtardo identified him as monomaniacal. Now how did that person know who he was? Did you miss that comment from someone on the left? We on the right know he’s a chronological idiot. Puddy proved that with his “dancing on Mike Webb’s grave entry“. Did you miss that thread Darryl? And you claim mental ignorance above? How come Darryl? Why is the learned professor so confused over wondermoron’s identity? No one else is. Are you the only one who can’t follow threads? Wait a minute… Pelletizer has that problem too.
So you can claim mental ignorance if you want. You seem to do that a lot here. Is that how you treat your students at UW? wondermoron is one of the most hateful name morphing libtardos. You told me you met the fool at a Drinking Liberally. Did he come across as a nice guy? Was the neon VACANCY sign flashing in his left eye then?
Now onto the rest of your fart. Puddy entered here what the American College of Surgeons placed on their web page as a response to “the messiah’s” comments. I posted “the messiah’s” words from the whitey house link. I posted ACS’ reponse to “the messiah’s” words and their link. Don’t like their response, awwww that’s shocking to know. Contact them and voice your “opinion”.
Regarding playing “two can play that idiotic game” as you put it “ya fucking imbecile?”, wondermoron inferred “the messiah” never said Medicare. wondermoron was trying to draw a conclusion from “the messiah” not explicitly saying “Medicare”. And then you lost it, BIG TIME!
The rest of your rant was bunch of garbage!
Toooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny
See ya!
Back to using Puddy all the time!
wondermoron you’ve been diagnosed as monomaniacal by someone with similar politics. Puddy diagnosed you as being a chronological idiot.
Yep, that’s Puddy’s story and Puddy is sticking to it.
LMAO!!! He repeats the same bullshit over and over and over and over….
As if he believes it has any legs whatsoever…
Too funny.. Too entertaining.. Too sick…
This fool surfs the “loon lagoon” with his soul brother JCH.
It’s amazing to Puddy how the left-wing libtardo mind works. Puddy places specific sections from Dingell’s health care bill on this web site and Puddy is attacked “for not having a grasp on reality”
Puddy places specific sections from the American College of Surgeons web site on this web site and Puddy is attacked with “wingnut lies”. Puddy didn’t know the American College of Surgeons was a wing-nut outfit.
wondermoron barfs
That you are monomaniacal? That you are a chronological idiot? Hey the truth can be repeated forever because it’s the truth. The truth has legs until Jesus comes again.
Shall Puddy produce the recent commentary on KO from the wondermoron just these past four days for all to see?
69 – LOL! It’s happens to be the judgement of Darryl, Lee and myself that you FAILED to prove CT promotion on the part of KO.
We fact checked your bullshit and it came up… well, bullshit!
Be my guest. Embarrass yourself even more.
Puddy @ 63,
Nope. You are absolutely wrong. You used the word infer and you meant imply. That isn’t a big deal–infer is frequently misused. I’ve no problem in that regard @ 58.
But in 63, you have switched to either being intellectually dishonest (meaning you know the difference but are unwilling to admit it) or undertaking ignorant self-deception (that is, unwilling to actually seek the facts that would show you to be wrong).
Either way, 63 doesn’t speak well about you. I cannot respect you for either.
Here is a quick lesson on the difference:
If you IMPLY you are a genius, you are misleading others.
If you INFER you are a genius, you suffer from self-delusion.
Golly Darryl, post #63 is direct from the dictionary. And again Puddy is being dishonest? What a hoot.
Puddy puts up a post. Puddy misinterprets his own post.
Darryl points out how pUddy misinterprets his own post and misses the main point.
Puddy excuses his misinterpretation of his own post. Puddy attacks Darry.
Just the usual BS from Puddy.
Obvama was right….preventative care saves money and the current system is downright stupid in not compensating doctors for preventative care.
Puddy misses the entire point, tries to criticize waht Obama said but misfires as usual – claiming Obama said that the surgeon was compensated 30-50K, when in fact the quote is clear and he said the cost was that.
Just so the totally uniformed idiot rightwingnuts get it:
Here is a hint idiots: The major cause of amputations in this country is Type II diabetes and this can be prevented by diet, exercise and drugs that control blood sugar levels. We have almost no incentives for diet and exercise programs in this country.
Now NutsTooTight arrives…
Where did Puddy miss the point? Puddy placed the American College of Surgeons response and as all can see NutsTooTight is backed up again. But as we all know ACS is a wing-nut outfit!
Puddybud,
“Puddy places specific sections from the American College of Surgeons web site on this web site and Puddy is attacked with “wingnut lies”. Puddy didn’t know the American College of Surgeons was a wing-nut outfit.”
The ACS is a special interest group. It is their job to take a “worst possible” interpretation of statements about their constituency and protest. Their aim is a clarification, and we can probably expect a apologetic Whitehouse clarification. That is how the institutional game goes.
But a plain English reading shows that Obama did not say or imply that a surgeon receives $50,000 for an amputation.
http://www.amputee-coalition.o.....leamp.html
Obama is factually correct – the wingnuts are wrong, wrong and wrong and Puddy is a right wing shill who doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Any other questions?
Puddybud @ 72,
“Golly Darryl, post #63 is direct from the dictionary. And again Puddy is being dishonest? What a hoot.”
You misunderstand what you read in the dictionary, Puddy. Quit lying to yourself and others here and learn about it.
I know you can be better than this, Puddy. I still have hope.
Puddy can’t read.
Puddy accepts whatever the right wing sites say on face value.
Puddy can’t argue or look up facts.
Face it – you are an embarassment.
wondermoron, the original post was Glenn Beck was “on a conspiracy rant” over the Cars web site. What is lost on you and other libtardos is the offending page was removed by “the messiah” and his “disciples”. Since the offending page was removed there was no conspiracy. Otherwise the administration would have said Glenn was wrong. But they didn’t do that did they clueless wondermoron?
Regarding KO and his rants, Puddy stands behind his comments.
NutsTooTight the American College of Surgeons is right-wing? I’ll be sure to let my step brother (A Fellow) know he’s a right-wing radical who mistakenly voted for “the messiah”!
Ok fine. Then you should have no problem supporting the following statement of fact you made:
You made this assertion here:
http://horsesass.org/?p=18389#comment-934092
Now please prove it.
Again (fourth, fifth time?) is a link to the Countdown transcripts for your convenience:
http://olbermann.org/ko/index......=01-Jan-04
Puddybud @ 65,
“Puddy going first person personal.”
I like it! You sound much less Bob Dole-ish that way.
“Did you miss that comment from someone on the left?”
Irrelevant. I was responding to your comment.
“Did you miss that thread Darryl?”
Probably.
“How come Darryl?”
Sorry…I’m not sure what you are asking. Are you wondering why I missed a thread about Mike Webb? Or why I didn’t know about it?
“Why is the learned professor so confused over wondermoron’s identity?”
Because I don’t care. Obviously, I could scroll up to the comment number you cite and find out. But I really don’t care. If you really want me to comment about someone you’ve given a cryptic nickname to, leave the name in parentheses or something.
“So you can claim mental ignorance if you want.”
(BTW: what exactly is mental ignorance? Does it differ from just plain ol’ ignorance in any substantive way?)
And thanks. If I ever figure out what a claim of “mental ignorance” is, I’ll feel safe knowing that I have your blessings to use the claim.
“You seem to do that a lot here.”
I think you assume I follow the comment threads in much greater detail than I actually do. Keep in mind Puddy: there are entire comment threads that I don’t read.
“Is that how you treat your students at UW?”
Specify what do you mean by “that.” If you are asking if I question them or ask for clarifications when I don’t know what they are talking about, the answer is yes.
“…wondermoron inferred “the messiah” never said Medicare.”
So? That comment wasn’t even posted when I started responding to your comment. Bring it up with him, not me! Find some contrary evidence and present it.
“wondermoron was trying to draw a conclusion from “the messiah” not explicitly saying “Medicare”. And then you lost it, BIG TIME!”
Wrong. I was responding to your comment at 54. “Medicare” mentions are entirely irrelevant to both your comment at 54 and my response to that comment.
QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS.
AFAIK, you haven’t offered up any convincing proof that this happened or what was so “offensive” about the page. AFAICT is was no more “offensive” than similar pages for other federal agencies.
And just like Goldy didn’t bother to respond to your nutjob “questions” back in April 2005, the administration doesn’t have to enable the hostile, lying idiot, whackaloon Beck who is bleeding sponsors right now.
Oops… I never said the ACS was right wing. You did however, get this entire so-called “argument”, off of a rightwingnut website that “cited” the ACS…and of course, that citation is meaningless since that is not what Obama said.
http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/1.....-medicine/
If fact, Obama is correct about how preventative care prevents much more expensive problems later. He is also correct on the price of amputation in diabetics.
So, either admit you are wrong, can’t read or that you simply accept the rightwingnut swill as fact and cannot be bothered to actually think critically yourself.
And by the way, it is African American men who are disproportionately affected by needing amputation and byt complications from Type Ii diabetes…in fact, it is OVERWEIGHT African American men who are most at risk!
Think about that the next time you mindlessly repeat rightwingnut false criticisms of Obama.
After over 4 long years, there is next to no hope for this fool.
wondermoron@81, let Puddy use your line again.
Puddy don’t do your bidding…
NutsTooTight,
in #78 you made a generalization. So now you retract it?
What is that web site? Never heard of it before. Can’t get to it either.
So all can see the mindless and vacant screams of a person with his NutsTooTight…
“The American College of Surgeons also weighed in by criticizing comments Obama made in New Hampshire and at a news conference last month suggesting that doctors might be motivated by profit to amputate a diabetic’s foot or remove a child’s tonsils.” It’s the AP and Google fool.
Prostate and Cowpers secretions… Is that what you have for breakfast NutsTooTight?
Just in case NutsTooTight missed it …(This version CORRECTS that Obama referred to 46 million uninsured people, not 47 million.) So Puddy will be using 46 million from now on!
NutsTooTight Puddy even let this comment from the ACS web site slide, but now Puddy will use it
“Three weeks ago, the President suggested that a surgeon’s decision to remove a child’s tonsils is based on the desire to make a lot of money. That remark was ill-informed and dangerous, and we were dismayed by this characterization of the work surgeons do. Surgeons make decisions about recommending operations based on what’s right for the patient.”
87 – Thanks for contradicting yourself and making my point. You won’t “stand” behind your comments because you CAN”T.
You’re afraid of having your ass handed to you.
You’re scared to death to admit YOU ARE WRONG.
You’re a coward.
Thanks for playing.
This isn’t the first time NutsTooTight accused Puddy of
Puddy uses the libtardo MSM to once again
D E S T R O Y the poor argument of NutsTooTight.
clueless wondermoron, you can rant and whine like a stuck pig until your wife comes home and your children enter school next month.
When Puddy uses your argument it’s running away. When you use it it’s standing your ground.
Such a hypocrite and a monomaniacal chronological idiot. ChristmasGhost called you yos idioto. Puddy knows it’s Lost Idioto!
That’s a foundation stone of reality for this FIEND.
Darryl rejoins
Puddy was bringing it up to him when you decided to join in.
Darryl asked
Nope. Everyone here except you knows who clueless wondermoron is. He’s also known by Piper’s favorite name for him YippeeLilBoy.
Except that Obama did NOT say that and your own quote proves it. In fact, Obama is correct about the total cost of foot amputation, whether you are the ACS agre or not…he is correct and you and the ACS misinterpreted what he said and are wrong. Period.
Now admit you are wrong and apologize or just get lost.
Puddy says:
Wow, you really are a poor loser and unable to see admit when you are wrong.
Didn’t you learn that in kindergarten? Don’t you know how to play with others?
Darryl and I have merely pointed out that you misinterpreted Obamas comments and I pointed out that you got your crap from the rightwingnut sites.
Where is your original link where you GOT the reply from the ACS? Huh?
If you are supporting your arguments again without a link….typical.
It’s really too funny that this FIEND refers to himself in the third person.
He explained it once and I don’t recall what he said but my theory is as follows:
The fiend actually thinks he’s MWS who instead of drying up and blowing away with his outing IS NOW sockpuppeting Puddybud and just like MWS slavishly yanked Puddybud’s crank, Stupes is just carrying on without skipping a heartbeat.
Any psychiatrists out there? This is some BIZARRE disorder.
Puddybud,
“Puddy was bringing it up to him when you decided to join in.”
I decided to join in when you made the comment,
Followed by two pieces of evidence, one of which you misread. (I mean, if you read it at all instead of copying it from another wingnut website.)
That is what I responded to. It is a pretty stand-alone comment, with a stand alone response.
You can pretend that there was another issue that was germane, but you are just lying to yourself and others here.
Seriously, Puddy, before hitting Submit Comment, ask yourself, “am I being completely truthful here?” “Am I succumbing to the sin of lying for mere ideology?”
You really CAN learn to debate issues without having to lie to yourself or others. It doesn’t mean giving up on your ideology; it does mean that truth is given supreme priority over ideology.
NutsTooTight has really lost it. NutsTooTight now wants Puddy to provide the link. It was in the AP and Puddy already provided the link.
Darryl, as Puddy told you it was on AP article which Puddy placed on this web site above. AP Associated Press.
Puddybud @ 96,
“Nope.”
Suit yourself, but don’t expect others to keep a catalog of your pet names for people.
“Everyone here except you knows who clueless wondermoron is.”
Aaaaaah…well if you had said “Clueless wondermoron” I would assume it is the person formerly known as “For the clueless.” That would have been a very helpful clue.
“He’s also known by Piper’s favorite name for him YippeeLilBoy.”
That one would have stumped me entirely. I don’t catalog Piper Scott’s pet names either.
Puddy has condensed the name to wondermoron.
Darryl,
When Stupes aka Puddybud posts something stupid like those two quotes and people like yourself call him on it, he starts “dancing”, i.e. deflecting by name-calling, inserting bullshit totally irrelevant attacks on other posters and other desperate tactics.
Anything to divert attention from the overwhelming REALITY that AGAIN he’s posted something stupid and specious cribbed from right wing swill.
First thing that popped out at me about that idiocy he posted is that one quote mentioned medicare and the other did not: obvious sloppy if not dishonest comparisons.
I have the same question as YLB…
When is this dumb fuck going to get it?
@90: The president also said that surgeons cut off the feet of diabetics because that’s where the money is.
Puddybud @ 101,
“Darryl, as Puddy told you it was on AP article which Puddy placed on this web site above. AP Associated Press.”
Wait…lets be crystal clear, and honest. For the two quotes in comment 54, are you stating that you first saw the AP article above and, based on that article, found the quotes at whitehouse.gov and facs.org? And you copied the quotes from those sources and pasted them into your comment @ 54?
Is that how it happened Puddy? Honestly?
@102 Darryl discusses Puddy spewing, “Everyone here except you knows who clueless wondermoron is.”
If Puddy thinks anybody here but Klynical and the goatfucker keeps track of his infantile namecalling then he really is insane.
Above, I asked:
…can he be honest enough with himself to admit the truth?
As one can see from the rest of this thread, we have our answer. Sad, but hardly unexpected.
This comparison should make things easier for future interactions with our sockpuppeting friend:
Puddybud : Horsesass.org :: Orly Taitz : President Obama
Puddy back. Hey Darryl, Puddy reads a lot of material. The Google based AP Article led Puddy to this search…
American College of Surgeons disagrees Obama
Free Republic appeared first. Interesting that Google a left-leaning wingnut outfit has them first. Puddy found facs.org and posted the link.
Very simple and very efficient.
The Orthopaedic Surgeons have something to say also. American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons – AAOS
another total jerk : asshole :: Jesus : Son of God
Can you DIG IT?
Now for the other part of Darryl’s question.
If you paid attention Darryl, Puddy has used the whitehouse.gov site quite a few times lately. Ask wondermoron as he saves all the PuddyMissives. Puddy used the whitehouse.gov site for their definition if a small business when conversing with SeattleJew. He can deliver the thread post just for you Darryl.
Wow the two bottom feeders rudeASS! and wondermoron are still peddling their ustogether request.
Puddy don’t react to cinder blockheads!
wondermoron farted:
Exactly what you did yesterday when Puddy placed multiple posts from the Dingell Health Care Bill.
wondermoron started his ustogether attack cuz he couldn’t hold a cogent argument otherwise!
This fool projects his every day actions on this blog. He gets an “F” for effort.
Puddybud – ButtPuddy
Piper – Pooper
Cynical – Klynical and other names
KLake – Many Names
Rick D – Ricky Dumbass
and the list goes on and on and on.
PacMan remembers the name you called him wondermoron. Do you still feel wonderful being the bottom feeding moron along with the dense as spent uranium rudeASS!?
You both live up to Lt Gen Russel Honore comment – You’re Stuck on Stupid!
It’s amazing to Puddy the ACS and the AAOS took issues with what “the messiah” said and NutsTooTight is still on his rant above.
“It is also a mischaracterization to suggest that physicians are reimbursed “immediately.” The AAOS itself, along with numerous other organizations, has testified in Congressional hearings investigating the delays in reimbursement by Medicare and other payers that create additional administrative burdens making it more difficult to provide access to care for patients.”
it PROVES you are full of bullshit. And you still haven’t provided the proof. Hint: cuz it doesn’t exist.
Conclusion: you are running away from your own bullshit like a frightened chicken. bawk! bawk! bawk!
No bill without a public option. Those who cave to the ugly insurance industry and their allies will be primaried.
Not amazing to Darryl. He already explained how interest groups behave.
More proof you can’t read and prefer to talk out your ass.
Oh and the left wing interest groups are what… wondermoron?
Tell us all about them…
wondermoron@116,
Puddy loves it when you go apoplectic. Another Pavlov Dog presentation from wondermoron!
There goes the chicken – running from his own bullshit!
bawk! bawk!
It’s in your court fool – prove the ct promotion of ustogether by ko.
Pavlov’s Doggie at it again!
bark wondermoron bark!
Not so good doggy!
There’s goes the chicken see the wretched fool run from his own words:
bawk! bawk! bawk!
Run chickenhawk run!
Well, if no one else claims it, I’ll take credit for coming up with “Mr. Klynical”. And to just think that the KLOWN keeps saying that I make no contribution here. Stupid goatfucker. Hmmm. Goatfucker. Hey, I just thought of another contribution…
Have I ever mentioned that Marvin fucks goats?
Somewhere above wondermoron farted this
LMBBAO Post #122 proves his own words are truer than ever on his own stupid ASS!
125 – This is your bullshit:
Here’s the proof you said it:
http://horsesass.org/?p=18389#comment-934092
And you haven’t proved it. Either prove the ct promotion of ustogether by ko or…
run like a little chicken… bawk! bawk! bawk!…
run coward run!!!
Puddybud,
“If you paid attention Darryl”
I don’t, really.
“…Puddy has used the whitehouse.gov site quite a few times lately….”
So, I am curious…did you take the Obama quote from Whitehouse.
orggov or Free Republic???Puddybud,
” Interesting that Google a left-leaning wingnut outfit has them first.”
So are you suggesting that Google filters their results by political ideology????
Somewhere above wondermoron farted this
He repeats the same bullshit over and over and over and over….
LMBBAO Post #126 proves his own words are truer than ever on his own stupid ASS!
Darryl,
WHITEHOUSE.ORG
HAS BEEN PERMANENTLY ARCHIVED
You may visit it here:
http://whitehouse.georgewbush.org
Here are some interesting posters…http://whitehouse.georgewbush....../index.asp
Nope not that web site.
Puddybud,
Right…thanks and corrected. Now what was your answer?
Specifically: Did you take the Obama quote from Whitehouse.gov or Free Republic???
Now for the second answer to Darryl’s question…
Nope Whitehouse.gov!
Puddybud,
Really…you took the quote from Whitehouse.gov? Really??????
Darryl, Puddy has taken quite a few posts from the whitehouse.gov web site. Go back to post #54. What is the link you see displayed there? Ask wondermoron for the link Puddy displayed for the small business health care debate. It’s from there too. Ask wondermoron for the 47 million uninsured health care value. It’s from there too. Ask wondermoron for the link Puddy displayed for Obama and Biden. Puddy took it from the change web site. Puddy gets much of his “the messiah” info direct from “the messiah’s” own words.
Darryl @128,
Puddy has no idea! Comment based on their political support for “the messiah” and their position against Prop 8 and they had a big ad snafu on Prop 8 for those who supported Prop 8 for a while. Do you remember the yesonprop8.com links being redirected to noonprop8.com and the crap Google caught on that?
Puddy @ 134,
It is a “yes” or “no” question. Did you take the quote from from Whitehouse.gov?
Puddy,
“Puddy has no idea!”
That’s what I thought.
“Comment based on their political support for “the messiah” and their position against Prop 8 and they had a big ad snafu on Prop 8 for those who supported Prop 8 for a while. Do you remember the yesonprop8.com links being redirected to noonprop8.com and the crap Google caught on that?”
Nope…I am not aware of any of those issues.
Darryl, Puddy already answered it.
So you can understand post #54 DAMN STRAIGHT. The words from “the messiah”… Direct from http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_.....Hampshire/
“All I’m saying is let’s take the example of something like diabetes, one of — a disease that’s skyrocketing, partly because of obesity, partly because it’s not treated as effectively as it could be. Right now if we paid a family — if a family care physician works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they’re taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed a pittance. But if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that’s $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 — immediately the surgeon is reimbursed. Well, why not make sure that we’re also reimbursing the care that prevents the amputation, right? That will save us money. (Applause.)”
Oh Darryl, you are not up to date on things. Could it be a tin foil hat keeping you uninformed? Do you get out much?
Puddy @ 138,
So sad. Puddy, why did you lie to me? Particularly after I asked you multiple times not to lie. The quote you just gave was, indeed, from whitehouse.gov. The quote that I asked you about was not.
The earlier quote has a subtle difference that is found on the wingnut sites, but not at whitehouse.gov. That is why I asked you to honestly tell me where you got the quote from.
I guess the worst is true. You are a pathological liar. And I will treat you as such henceforth.
Ahhh Darryl, subtle differences. Yep, Puddy search 37 “wing-nut sites” and found it. Yep you got me. Which one of the 37 Darryl?
Glenn Beck
foundingbloggers
national review
theatlantic
John Stossel
Hot Air
Michelle Malkin
healthleadersmedia
notsosilentthought
joustthefacts
etc. etc. etc.
Puddy @ 141,
“Which one of the 37 Darryl?”
Irrelevant. What IS relevant is that it wasn’t Whitehouse.gov, as you claimed.
But if they win, and stop Health Care Reform, they win huge. The grass roots support of the Democrats will shrink significantly and the repubs win big for another 12-20 years. Look at the Clinton debacle.
Stupes a pathological liar?
“I am Puddybud, NOT”?
“My word is my bond”?
Does the Pope take a dump in the woods?
Puddy was waiting for wondermoron to appear.
Remember your Daily Kos – Christian Science Monitor lie fool?
Or how about your HMNT January 2009 moments?
You walk right into crap don’t you?
BTW so what Puddy visits all those sites.
146 – Go ahead. Make my day fiend. I already responded to one of those “three names in January” and it led to your “nympho sluts” explosion.
So when are you going to prove that “ustogether” ct promotion by ko? (Never)
Your words. Your delusions. What passes for your mind in sycophantic thrall to right wing LIES.
Now why did the wondermoron skip this:
Remember your Daily Kos – Christian Science Monitor lie fool?
147 – Make my day asshole. Refresh my memory. Any faux pas I might have made doesn’t erase the overwhelming reality:
You’re full of shit. You live and breathe the LIE that is the right wing in this country.