I was the 12th voter this morning at St. Andrew’s Church in North Seattle. As I put my ballot into the machine, it registered it, but there was a flashing ***POWER FAIL*** message on the display. Remembering rudimentary Murphy’s Law, I followed the extenstion cord back behind the voting tables until I saw the other end of the cord lying on the floor. A woman asked me, “Can I help you?” I replied, “You might want to plug that in.” She plugged it in and then the main dude came over and patted the machine a few times. This entire episode did not make me regret voting against I-25 in any way.
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What will it take, Lee? To get you to break out of your orthodoxy, that is, and support something that a lot of your fellow libs over at WashBlog unequivocally support?
That elections office continues to be a mess. This season it’s the screwed up Voters’ Pamphlet on the Eastside, and now reports of absentee ballots requested in plenty of time to be received that are as yet…unreceived.
So much for so-called “qualified professionals” appointed by the elected King County Executive.
It’s in everyone’s interest to clean up KC Elections, and the current administration at the County level won’t do it, so it’s up to the people.
The Piper
Lee, you just gave Stefan a gigantic boner.
Hey Lee, my wife and I were voters 10 and 11 and St. Andrews and I noticed the same thing. Makes me wonder whether my Satterberg vote counted!
What will it take, Lee? To get you to break out of your orthodoxy, that is, and support something that a lot of your fellow libs over at WashBlog unequivocally support?
It has to be the right thing to do. And I don’t think turning the elections direction into an elected position is the right thing to do. It won’t change a single thing about how elections are run here.
That elections office continues to be a mess.
Sorry, crackpiper, but I’ve actually lived in other parts of the country, and I can tell you that elections here are actually handled fairly well by comparison.
This season it’s the screwed up Voters’ Pamphlet on the Eastside, and now reports of absentee ballots requested in plenty of time to be received that are as yet…unreceived.
And how will making the elections director an elected office fix that? Not enough people will ever pay attention to those things to ensure that competent people are elected. It’s just not that high profile an office. There are already enough elected officials from judges to assessors in this area that even I, someone who pays close attention to politics, can’t keep tabs on everyone. What you and Stefan and Zappini and the rest of the idealists want is impossible.
So much for so-called “qualified professionals” appointed by the elected King County Executive.
Because the voting machine wasn’t plugged in? Are you telling me that you couldn’t tell that my post was directly making fun of people like you and still stepped in it anyway?
It’s in everyone’s interest to clean up KC Elections, and the current administration at the County level won’t do it, so it’s up to the people.
If there’s corruption, you have a case. But there isn’t. There’s occasional incompetence, and it’s no more than in any of the private sector companies I’ve worked in.
@3
If the machine registered it, the vote counted (those things obviously have to be able to run on battery backup in case of a power outage). I just figured that it would be easier to just plug the damn thing in. :)
I’m now off to vote at Robert Frost Elementary just north of Totem Lake.
I delight in voting in person, and I hate the notion of all-mail voting. In fact, I’d prefer we brought back those mammoth old voting machines with all the levers; pulling the big one was a substantial act and made voting ever more dramatic.
These flabby computer-read pieces of paper with their “fill in the bubble” spaces are too reminiscent of multiple-guess tests in school.
I like how it was done in Gaullist France: voters were given different colored ballots representing different parties, and the good Gaullist deposited his colored ballot in the box, then took the others out into the street, wadded them up, and threw them in the gutter letting the whole world know the level of disdain and disgust the French people had for all save Charles de Gaulle.
If we tried that here, the environmental nazi’s would cry up a river!
The Piper
What’d you expect, Lee, from a regime run by Democrats? I’m watching polls today, and it’s always such a turn-on, waiting expectantly for the next liberally drunk progressive screw up.
Good stuff from Peggy Noonan (http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/) about Hillary v. Russert. Here’s a tease: Barack Obama, “born to be mild.”
@5 When we picked up our ballots, the lady said there were supposed to be nine election workers, and I’d say there were more like four or five? But I’m glad my Satterberg vote counted!
Piper, I’m afraid I’m with Lee on this one, perhaps to my regret. The way the media has bought into the Bill Sherman BS hook, line, and sinker makes me terrified to put something like this into the hands of the voters.
Hmm ..
wonder if Lee’s ballot got counted twice? Maybe we should rerun the election?
I strongly support Piper’s concept of MORE elected officials.
I think we should, for example, elect more of the police ..say maybe 1%? The too we should elect the Presidents of the UW, WAU and the state colleges. HAT+Y .. lets elect the coaches too!
Anyone interested in our electing ferry pilots real time .. just before each trip? Hoy about DMV car licenses? Why test for these when we can have an election?
So cool.
@7
What’d you expect, Lee, from a regime run by Democrats?
I expect what I always expect from Democrats, slightly to significantly less incompetence than what I expect from Republicans.
And Peggy Noonan? Like anybody cares what that crazy old hag says?
@9
Awesome. Probably see you tonight if you’re braving the crowds at DL this evening…
@9 well put. Let’s elect the principals of the elementary schools and the school superintendent too.
10 I’ll have to beg to differ, judging from the shenanigans in some other states over the last 8 years. The issue isn’t incompetence. It’s malfeasance.
@12 And outright criminality.
@10…Lee…
Old? She’s younger than me, and one of the most thoughtful commentators out there. But because she uses graceful prose rather than profanity, I guess that makes her “quaint” per HA standards.
The Piper
Crackpiper @ 1 making a bandwagon argument!
What a loser!
@14: yes…because “graceful prose” can never contain hateful thoughts. Why, look at yourself!
@Seattle Jew: Malcolm Nance is on NPR’s To The Point right now reiterating his contention that waterboarding is indeed torture. He is a former instructor in SERE training, has waterboarded people himself and been waterboarded. I would certainly take HIS word that it’s torture.
He also raises the point that torture DOES NOT WORK. The questioner gets answers but the victim is saying whatever it takes to get the torture to stop.
Torture is not an intelligence-gathering technique. It’s a terror technique and has no place in American society.
-OM
Piper is a professional blogger. He has nothing else to do with his life. It is necessary for him to post endlessly everywhere to use up the day.
The lack of intelligent content is irrelevant,
Link to Nance’s blog entry and statement at Small Wars Journal.com
@14
She’s younger than me, and one of the most thoughtful commentators out there.
I think this is time for one of my favorite all-time blog features, Deep Thoughts by Peggy Noonan…
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet.....gy-noonan/
@8…T…
I side with Lincoln, not Lee (little Civil War pun for any among you who are products of a public school education): “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
Lee is afraid of the people and looks down upon them as lazy, ignorant, and generally emblematic of the term “the great unwashed,” hence his unwillingness to be subject to their sovereignty and authority.
I, on the other hand, revel in being of them and one of them…even when they don’t do it my way or occasionally get it wrong. Over the long haul, there’s more native wisdom and common sense smarts among the common folk than in all the universities, assembled elites, and HA postings combined.
Lee is content to live under comparative competency: King County is not as incompetent as some of the incompetent places he’s lived, so thank your lucky stars…or, in his case, Lucky Charms…that you live here!
Sorry…doesn’t cut it. Zero defects is the only acceptable standard.
A while back, there was an ad on TV for, I think, Bank of America that stressed it’s committment to achieve zero defects in the processing of checks. The guy in the ad, a real B of A employee involved in that function, was very convincing in his pronouncement that of the billions of checks the bank processes, they strive to do it right every single time, check by check.
With KC Elections director, Sheril Huff, it’s fob off to the printer responsibility for a fubared Voters’ Pamphlet even though her office had employees on site responsible for proofing the thing.
No good!
And, Lee, your “making fun” post wasn’t lost on me, I just don’t think screwing up the election process is funny in the least…even when it’s a simple matter of a tabulating machine not being plugged in.
The people have the absolute right to demand of those who deign to be public servants that they perform their jobs flawlessly. When they don’t, they need to be booted unceremoniously; there is no right to be on the public payroll.
No function is more central to our democracy than voting, and if the public officials who administer that function can’t get it right every time, all the time, then the people are absolutely entitled to demand their heads!
King County Elections is nationally known as an abyss of problems…Whether it’s the 2004 election, a dangerous proposal to implement touch screen balloting, screw ups related to absentee ballots, fudging on record keeping, or whatever, none of it is good!
Head over to WashBlog and catch Zappini’s crusade in favor of I-25, now endorsed by Noemie Maxwell, of all people. Check it out here http://www.washblog.com/story/2007/11/3/12130/8986
I’m not willing to settle for less than complete excellence and perfection in the administration of elections. This region and state has suffered the consequences of less, and no one in his or her right mind can say that a repeat of that is an acceptable risk.
If we lose faith in elections, we’ve lost it as a nation.
The Piper
@20
You, of course, have complete faith in the presidential election of 2000, and the state of Florida’s conduct, and the Supreme Court decision (whereby they made no new law or novel and unprecedented decision), and the fact that it was Republican victory has nothing to do with it!
@20
I side with Lincoln, not Lee (little Civil War pun for any among you who are products of a public school education): “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
What?
Lee is afraid of the people and looks down upon them as lazy, ignorant, and generally emblematic of the term “the great unwashed,” hence his unwillingness to be subject to their sovereignty and authority.
No, the only person I look down upon as lazy and ignorant is you.
I, on the other hand, revel in being of them and one of them…even when they don’t do it my way or occasionally get it wrong.
Is this why you complained the other day when someone said you made less money than you actually do?
Over the long haul, there’s more native wisdom and common sense smarts among the common folk than in all the universities, assembled elites, and HA postings combined.
It’s not about wisdom or common sense. It’s about time and interest. People just don’t have the capacity to pay that close attention to what every single public official is doing.
Lee is content to live under comparative competency: King County is not as incompetent as some of the incompetent places he’s lived, so thank your lucky stars…or, in his case, Lucky Charms…that you live here!
Actually, my point was that our elections office is not in such a crisis that we need to take extreme measures to fix it.
A while back, there was an ad on TV for, I think, Bank of America that stressed it’s committment to achieve zero defects in the processing of checks. The guy in the ad, a real B of A employee involved in that function, was very convincing in his pronouncement that of the billions of checks the bank processes, they strive to do it right every single time, check by check.
And what’s their actual error rate, or are you actually suggesting that because it was in a commercial, it must be true?
The people have the absolute right to demand of those who deign to be public servants that they perform their jobs flawlessly. When they don’t, they need to be booted unceremoniously; there is no right to be on the public payroll.
But that doesn’t happen now! Which public official anywhere in this country performs his/her job flawlessly? Do you really think that if we make the job of elections director an elected one that the person in that role won’t make mistakes any more? Are you seriously that fucking stupid?
No function is more central to our democracy than voting, and if the public officials who administer that function can’t get it right every time, all the time, then the people are absolutely entitled to demand their heads!
Of course they are! But that still has absolutely nothing to do with making the office an elected position.
I’m not willing to settle for less than complete excellence and perfection in the administration of elections.
And making the office an elected position gets you no closer to that unrealistic goal.
@16 OneMan
Perhaps you misunderstand my stand. I do not know where the society wants to place the border between what is and what is not torture, nor have I seen an objective study as to whether any specific techniques promoted or prevents the goals of an interrogator.
MY standards are unlikely to be yours. For example, I have no objection to sexual humiliation a la Abu Grave, but do object to indefinite imprisonment or use of the State to ruin someone’s life. To me, branding someone for life as a sex offender is cruel and unusual but flogging, the stocks, and even some surgical procedures may be more acceptable than some forms of imprisonment or impoverishment.
As a legal matter, I understand that the guidelines for what is and is not torture are very unclear. I tend to think it is is better if they stay that way, but if we do need laws then at least we need a system for defining those laws.
Some arguments that WB is not “torture.”
Many opponent have voluntarily undergone it.
It has been used to train out own people.
There is no evidence it does physical or permanent mental harm.
These are not necessarily compelling. What process would you use to decide?
@23
Please tell me you’re not trying to argue that waterboarding is not torture.
Zero defects is the only acceptable standard.
This could only have been written by someone who doesn’t understand quantum mechanics….I hope he understands something, anything, better than he understands physics!
@23 – that is truly the most bizarre thing I have read on the Internets all day.
24 – Who the hell cares if it is? Why the narcotic like obsession with how we treat this enemy? Whatever we are doing to them, my only regret is that it is not MORE brutal, not less. Gouge their eyeballs out, take a blow torch to their nut sack, throw them naked into 60 below zero freezers and watch them shiver, do whatever unimaginable tactics you can think of!! Torture schmorture!!!
Mark @ 27
And we should be able to treat our enemies in such manner because we are better than them, correct? We are the shining city on the hill so we should be able to stoop to any depth to which our enemies stoop to maintain our position, correct? Let me offer you a free pass to the waterboarding spa I’m opening for all of you out there who are so enamored with waterboarding.
@23: Really, if you’re “not sure” whether or not waterboarding is torture, you need to educate yourself. Try this, where you get to read the following delightful passage:
Still not sure? Try this, where you can discover that
Your standards and mine aren’t the issue. The issue is the law (references in the articles noted above). The “enhanced” techniques exposed in this administration are torture. Why the hell should we get down in the cesspit with our enemies?
Your response also conflates interrogation with punishment. I think this is a mistake (as well as being confusing). We aren’t talking about flogging (you’d like Singapore, I suspect) or the Stocks…we’re talking about secretly taking someone away and torturing a confession out of them, without oversight. That is just wrong.
And, as I pointed out before, it doesn’t work. It’s a terror technique, not an interrogation technique. From the smallwarsjournal.com article there’s this little gem:
You made the statement that “our people have undergone the technique” so…somehow that means it isn’t torture. In the first place, the training was specifically about how to resist (that’s the ‘R’) torture and in the second place, the sessions lasted for a few seconds, not the extended periods without any option to stop it that prisoners receive. That, my friend, is totally bogus.
So to sum it up: It’s wrong, it lowers us to the level of our enemies, and it doesn’t work.
Yeah, that’s a recipe for success.
-OM
@27
Mark,
Your point of view is what defines the Middle East. We’re fighting a battle between western culture and Middle East culture, and you’re on the side of Middle East culture.
27 Hay, Mark….did you get your rocks off typing that?
31 – Yes I did! I enjoyed the SHIT out of it!!!!
Geeze! I thought it was over-the-top satire. We actually have some nut that comes here, posing as a human, who seriously has that point of view?
Just remember Mark, we lose the right to object anything done in our names, when it is done to one of ours.
Next you’ll be telling me that Piper is serious!
Open thread that this is…When the Sonics leave town, would it make sense to charter a big enough bus to take the Heahawks with them? Maybe buy two seats for Mike Holmgren so he won’t have to squeeze his XXX-L drawers into just one?
To be beaten in OT by the Cleveland Browns…what’s next?
Tell me…who preferred watching New England at Indianapolis? A couple of real football teams playing a game that mattered.
Time to turn Qwest Field into a Metro transfer station?
The Piper
@25…Tlazolteotl…
I make no claims to understanding or even caring about quantum mechanics…it’s election mechanics that interest me, and there the electoral millwrights, fitters, and instrumentation techs cannot make mistakes.
On I-25…the people will decide, and we will all learn to live with their choice.
The Piper
36:
Piper, a fair weather fan? Shame on you.
@38…Carl…
Fair weather? No, more like stormy weather.
If they have to be bad, can’t they be bad all the way? A mediocre team is worse than an 0-fer team since at least the 0-fer team has the integrity to make up its mind.
Tell me…you really watched the NE/Indy game, didn’t you? And preferred it by bunches, correct?
The Piper
37 It might be said that there’s a correspondence between electoral politics and quantum mechanics, Piper. It has to do with uncertainty. Makes it all the more interesting.
@39
If they have to be bad, can’t they be bad all the way? A mediocre team is worse than an 0-fer team since at least the 0-fer team has the integrity to make up its mind.
Even for you, that’s a stupid comment.
The night before last, I caught some of a rerun of an episode on a series of panel discussions on ethics that PBS did about 20 years ago. This one dealt with what-if’s concerning things like torture and collateral civilian casualties in a hypothetical war. The panel included about a half dozen military officers including William Westmoreland and someone who I think might have been the only female general in our services at the time. Also Newt Gingrich, the head of the Army chaplain corps, and the head of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops–one of the issues raised was a chaplain dealing with a soldier who came to confession with an account of being party to an atrocity. The general consensus of the group was that there were things that the US military just plain didn’t condone, that it was every soldier’s right and duty to refuse to carry out an unlawful order.
Things somehow seem to have changed a bit in the last two decades.
Pip,
Even I, who think the Republicans have, by various means, interfered with or stolen several elections recently, realize that even when everyone has the best intentions, not the worst, that mistakes will happen. The best we can do is to have transparent processes to deal with them when they do happen.
Wishing for perfect humans or perfect machines is like wishing for the magic pony in Iraq…just ain’t gonna happen, it’s against the laws of statistics and physics.
@40
See? Even an ArtFart like ArtFart has more understanding oh physics than Pip does!
Since we (I) are on the subject of waterboarding, dig this commentary by Olbermann on Daniel Levin, who subjected himself to waterboarding to determine for himself whether or not it’s torture:
(hint: it is)
@24 Lee
I am arguing that I do not know whether WB does or does not qualify as torture under the law.
My understanding of the law is that it is subjective, very much like the cruel and unusual concept of the constitution.
Some things, esp. things that produce physical damage seem to be pretty widely agreed on. Similarly others, seem to be acceptable to most folks as not being torture .. e.g. use of blindfolds or bright lights during questioning.
I assume that anything that threatens death is torture? Does that mean spinning an unloaded gun is torture? What about infecting someone with a cureable disease or addicting them to morphine???
So, the honest truth is I simply do not know. I do think the AG should have been forced to answer the question about his opinion and I certainly will make a decision before I accept responsibility for deciding whether to use WB in my own job.
I also feel that a lot of this shit is better left under a rock. If the Bush regime were not so incompetent I would feel more secure in trusting the good judgement of the CIA.
@29 WADR
Nothing you are telling me is new. I still must admit to not having a stand on this.
Do you really have a magic wand that lets you decide what is and is not torture?
1. The Stocks .. can we keep folks in the stocks, subject to public humilation, until they tell us their secrets?
2. Can we use rape?
3. How about vitamn deprivation?
4. Psychomimetic drugs?
5, imprisonment in a box a la Vietnam?
6. Prolonged exposure to blasphemy, rock music, Bush speeches?
I am NOT belittling this. I just do not know how we can decide? As for whether it works or not, again I am hardly an expert. I do believe I would give under torture much less meaningful than WB??
46 “I also feel that a lot of this shit is better left under a rock.”
If only that were true! In point of fact it’s been oozing out all over the place, and far too many people (including the opposition leadership) continue to try to ignore the fact that they’re standing in it up to their clavicles.
In the 2004 Election, KCE was unable to reconcile votes & voters on a Precindt basis.
Perhaps this explains why Lee.
KCE-UNPLUGGED!
@41…Lee…
Teams that consistently lose and lose big are beloved by their fans who take them into their hearts as one would a stray pup or kitty. Witness the Cubs and any number of incarnations of the NY Mets.
But a team that’s OK one week, sucks the next two, barely squeaks by the fourth? Blah! Too wishy-washy.
As one extremist to another, wouldn’t you rather they made up their minds as to whether they’re winners or losers? Instead of engaging in a lot of stupid quantum mechanic uncertainty?
At a minimum…a coaching change is in order. When a team loses all the time, you may be able to pin the blame on players. As Casey Stengel asked the ’61 Mets, “Can’t anyone here play this game?”
But when a team is up and down, it’s less the players than their preparation. Sideline Holmgren harrumphs are getting stale and cliched.
Here’s hoping the Pat’s go undefeated; nothing like perfection, which is possible to those who strive for it.
The Piper
@47 SJ
Congratulations! You have managed to use moral relativism and rambling pseudo-intellectual confusion to avoid responsibility for the most basic human rights violations. You are now a consummate politician. Doesn’t it feel good?
@50…Chad T….
Hey! SJ posed legit questions about defining what is and what isn’t, then admitted a quandry. What’s relativistic about that? All advancement in human knowledge and understanding start from the premiese, “I don’t know,” followed by a series of questions, an essentially Socratic exercise.
The Piper
Wow:
I disagree with SJ: sorry waterboarding is toture period. the military, the JAGs, the people who actually tried it all say so. sorry if you can’t decide – but the litmus test should be – would we want out relatives who are soldiers to endure this (even if they are criminals)?
also, it is an embarassment that our country does not stop this and deny that we do it – we prosecuted Japanese for it in WWII. We don’t need Nazi-like torture to be secure, period.
also hard to believe: I agree with Piper Scott on something.I also think the seahawks stink and laughed at your assessments on the need for a large bus seat for Mike Holmgren.
@46, @47
I’m honestly stunned that you’re even making an argument like this. It’s not hard to find legal definitions of torture, and waterboarding unquestionably fits within those definitions. The only people arguing this are bedwetters (Mark) and those who are trying to keep members of the Bush Administration from facing criminal charges down the road.
@49
As one extremist to another, wouldn’t you rather they made up their minds as to whether they’re winners or losers? Instead of engaging in a lot of stupid quantum mechanic uncertainty?
Do you really think the Rams (0-8) “made up their minds” to be losers this year?
Here’s hoping the Pat’s go undefeated; nothing like perfection, which is possible to those who strive for it.
Keep on striving to be the perfect idiot. You’re well on your way.
@50 ,, gad ..being defended by Piper!
@59 chadt
I do not understand what you would like me to do? I believe in the rule of law. So, if you want to convince me that you know that WB is torture, then tell me how you define torture.
Look, I have also heard folks claim that torture includes sleep deprivation, bland food, sexual embarassment, prolonged exposure to bright light, … etc. Who decides?
Personally, I think it is inhumane to sentence a sex offender to a life of expulsion from society. OTOH, I believe white collar crimes that impoverish others should be punished by mandatory poverty (take that Martha Stewart!),
As for WB, what I read is that it initiated the diving reflex and evokes basic defense mechanism against drowning. Is this correct? BUT, when I was trained in SCUBA we were subjected pretty much to just this. Frank, the instructor, would come up behind us and grab our air hose out of our mouths and kick of our masks. Was that torture too?
Frankly, I am NOT trying to say it is NOT torture. I am FAR more concerned with an AG who wants the job but will not tell me his opinion on this issue .. one way or the other. Te term here ought to be responsibility .. soemthing the Bushies do not want!
@55
I do not understand what you would like me to do? I believe in the rule of law. So, if you want to convince me that you know that WB is torture, then tell me how you define torture.
Steve, you have the internet. These definitions have been accepted for a long time. Look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
If you want to argue that these definitions are wrong, go ahead, but you’re out in left field if you think there’s some vagueness here. There isn’t. Waterboarding is absolutely, unquestionably, a form of torture.
Piper:
Why does it not surprise me (or anyone else on this blog) that you would be rooting for a team that CHEATS. Not allegedly cheats, but was caught red handed video taping the opponents. Republicans just can’t resist idolizing dirty tricks and those who use them.
True colors always shine right through.
It is a shame about the Pats, they will be remembered more for the cheating than the winning. Just like the Republicans. It was not necessary to cheat to win, but they did it anyway. For the sport? For the thrill? To what end?
Just like Republicans.
“All advancement in human knowledge and understanding start from the premiese, “I don’t know,” followed by a series of questions, an essentially Socratic exercise.” Piper @ 51
Well, what do you know, you have made a true statement. Moreover, you have stated something truthful concerning a fundamental issue. I applaud you for that. Now, I would request that you apply the truth to your own thinking. With all due respect my friend, ideologues of your persuasion start any inquiry–at least any political inquiry–with “here’s the answer. Now, let’s fix the facts around the answer.”
@53…Lee…
Careful…you’re imputing to me words and positions I have neither said nor taken.
Show me where I’ve endorsed waterboarding. Frankly, I have yet to make up my mind as to whether that’s permissable.
What I do know is this: stuff went on in WW II, Korea, and Vietnam that was way worse; wars get like that. That’s not a rationalization, it’s a statement of reality.
Your intimate, seeming first-hand knowledge of my nocturnal incontinence issues bespeaks a nosiness that’s both unusual and bizarre. Do you get your jollies from sniffing my sheets? Wouldn’t surprise me to hear that you do. If so, let me know, and I’ll have some sent over for your olfactory delights.
The Piper
@55…SJ…
No charge…On the house…
The Piper
At least you got to see it accepted before a Sharpie Wielding union Thug determined it was unreadable and remark it.
Heh by the way? Can you folks explain why 1 in 12 ballots in King County need to be remarked, where in the polling places, it is rare to absolutely a non event to see a polling machine spit out a ballot to the voter because it was unreadable?
Just askin!
@59
I apologize. I edited the comment above.
What I do know is this: stuff went on in WW II, Korea, and Vietnam that was way worse; wars get like that. That’s not a rationalization, it’s a statement of reality.
No one’s denying that.
Your intimate, seeming first-hand knowledge of my nocturnal incontinence issues bespeaks a nosiness that’s both unusual and bizarre.
Bedwetter is a generic term that refers to people whose fears of Islamic terrorism and what they’re capable of are considerably greater than warranted. You clearly belong in this category.
@58…PL…
Gee…that’s what us righty-tighties say about you lefty-loons!
I’m sure you’re familiar with Judge Learned Hand, whose dictum on the spirit of liberty was one of the single most profound things I learned as an undergraduate from Prof. Gerald Rutan up at Western, lo these many decades ago.
Judge Hand, aside from Bob Bork the best judge ever screwed out of a seat on SCOTUS (FDR didn’t like his Republican leanings), said, in a 1944 NYC speech to new citizens:
“The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right…”
Another thing Rutan taught was always leave some slack in the system, and I think that’s what Judge Hand had in mind. Never draw your POV so taught that no room is available for new data or altered perspective.
The Spirit of Liberty always shows some respect for he other fellow’s POV, wrong though it may be. That other fellow has the right to say the wrong thing, but he also must understand that whatever he says will be scrutinized and torn apart. Such is the nature of debate.
Win some, lose some, stretch a lot…
The Piper
@62…Lee…
Fair enough…
But how is it you get mulligans when the rest of us don’t?
The Piper
@57…Carl…
For which the coach apologized, expressed chagrin and remorse, and expressed willingness to be held accountable.
Forgiving sort that I am, that settled it for me. Besides…was it an issue in any games such that it made the difference?
And Lee…the Rams? Yeah, at some point a team with that bad a record decides to lose…been one some, seen it happen. You figure why try? Since you can’t even buy a break, what’s the point? When the media, the fans, the coaches, and even the old lady are so down on you, it’s no use. Nobody believes in you, so why believe in yourself?
Kind of reminds me of what I hear from the staff sergeant and lance corporal about how they regard the harping and criticism emanating from the home front…But that’s another story.
The Piper
Piper @ 63
Except for your reference to Bork, I agree with your post entirely. With regard to the need for some “slack” in the system, I think such is provided by the slowness and ofttimes sloppiness by which government works. A strong executive sucks the slack out of the system and negates the process which honors the doubt of which Hand spoke. See where I’m going with this? You seem to demand perfection, perfection which neither the public or private sector is capable of performing. I’ll take the give and take, back and forth inefficiency of the legislative and administrative process over executive efficiency anyday.
Torture, Torture, Torture!!! Make them scream and gnash their teeth in agony!!! Cut their fingers off one at a time and rub their stumps in salt!!!
@64
Because I post here.
@65
And Lee…the Rams? Yeah, at some point a team with that bad a record decides to lose…been one some, seen it happen. You figure why try? Since you can’t even buy a break, what’s the point? When the media, the fans, the coaches, and even the old lady are so down on you, it’s no use. Nobody believes in you, so why believe in yourself?
Call me crazy, but I’m not buying that the Rams are trying to lose now, even if they’d love to have the #1 pick instead of the Dolphins.
Kind of reminds me of what I hear from the staff sergeant and lance corporal about how they regard the harping and criticism emanating from the home front…But that’s another story.
That’s not what I’ve been hearing from people on the front lines (almost unanimously, you hear that Iraq is its own world and American public opinion is largely hidden from them), so I’d be interested in hearing what they have to say.
@67
OH! You’re in the Bush Justice Department. Sorry I missed that…..
@69
Everything is spelled right, though. He seems overqualified.