by Darryl, 02/23/2010, 6:19 PM


Please join us tonight for an evening of politics under the influence at the Seattle Chapter of Drinking Liberally. We meet at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E. beginning at about 8:00 pm. Some of us will show up even earlier.

Not in Seattle? There is a good chance you live near one of the 346 other chapters of Drinking Liberally.

60 Responses to “Drinking Liberally — Seattle”

1. Michael spews:


our Republican U.S. representative, voted against the Recovery Act (stimulus) because as she said, “It did not address the major cause of growing unemployment – low job creation in the private sector.”
But as soon as our state got $35 million in stimulus funds for the North Spokane Corridor, which she petitioned for, she was quick to let us know what a great thing she had done for us by getting the funds and stimulating job growth and development.

2. Darryl spews:

Nice catch….

3. Roger Rabbit spews:

Senate Report: Blackwater Stole Weapons

Blackwater employees hired to provide weapons training to Afghan security forces under a $20 million government contract helped themselves to hundreds of AK-47s intended for the Afghan National Police, and the company subsequently lied to a Senate investigating committee about the theft of the rifles, AOL News reports.

Blackwater employees also were involved in previously undisclosed shootings, including an incident in which drunken Blackwater employees shot up a group of Afghan civilians, a preview of Senate Armed Services Committee hearings set to begin tomorrow reveal.

Roger Rabbit Commentary: You never would have heard about these incidents if we still had a Republican president and a Republican-controlled Senate, because there either would have been no investigation, or the findings would have been suppressed.

4. Roger Rabbit spews:

Can Republicans Get Any More Clownish?

GOP state rep. Michael Pitts has introduced a bill in the South Carolina legislature that would banish federal money from the state and make gold and silver the only legal tender, AOL News reports.

Pitts’ bill blames “an economic crisis of severe magnitude” on the federal monetary system, and says a “sound monetary system” requires the “guarantee” of silver and gold.

Pitts told CBS News, “If the federal government continues to spend money at the rate it’s spending money, and if it continues to print money at the rate it’s printing money, our economic system is going to collapse.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: You’d have to be pretty damn stupid to vote for a party that has nothing better to do than turn the governance of our country into a carnival act.

This guy is an idiot on several levels.

First, there’s a little thing called federal preemption that makes Pitts’ bill illegal right out of the gate. But he probably knows that, and is using his elective office for buffoonish grandstanding instead of serious legislating.

Second, the Federal Reserve didn’t cause the economic crisis, bad loans made by unregulated private lenders to private borrowers did.

Third, gold and silver currency provide anyting but a “sound” monetary system. The attempted return to the gold standard after World War I by the major industrial countries probably was the single greatest cause of the Great Depression. See Liaquat Ahamed’s book “Lords of Finance” for details.

Fourth, where does this dope think the cash-strapped South Carolina state government is going to get the money to buy enough gold and silver to replace all the Federal Reserve notes in circulation in that state?

Fifth, what’s to prevent all those gold and silver coins from disappearing across the state line to collectors or hoarders in other states and countries?

If you want to relive the 1930s, do what Hoover did. This numbskull has that formula down pat. Frankly, I don’t care what South Carolina does; if that state’s voters can’t do any better than electing numbskulls like this, and put themselves under, that’s their problem. Just don’t let them export their idiocy to the rest of the country.

5. Roger Rabbit spews:

Nevada’s GOP Gov. Jim Gibbons testified in a deposition that he hasn’t been laid since 1995, especially by that Playboy model.

6. Roger Rabbit spews:

I suppose any really determined guy could go that long without sex if he was trying to prove something, but why would he want to? Is he trying to get into Guinness? Sorry, that record is already taken by a kid who managed to stay a virgin until he was 16.

7. Michael spews:


Gotta love The Google.


Can we revoke Black Water’s charter now. And do we know where the missing guns are now?

9. Roger Rabbit spews:

This is the Playboy model he didn’t have sex with.

10. Roger Rabbit spews:

Roger Rabbit Poll

Nevada’s GOP Gov. Jim Gibbons is

[ ] 1. Blind
[ ] 2. Gay
[ ] 3. Eunuch
[ ] 4. Liar

11. Roger Rabbit spews:

Miss California Contestant Suggests Gays Should Be Killed

Just what we don’t need, another beauty pageant princess thumpin’ her Bible.

Lauren Ashley, from Beverly Hills, says the Bible is “clear” about putting gay men to death.

Miss Genocide is slated to compete in the Miss California contest this fall.

12. Roger Rabbit spews:

@3 Blackwater hides behind the name “Xe Services” now. And no, they haven’t returned the stolen guns. The article doesn’t say who paid for them, but I assume we taxpayers did.

13. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Hey MSNBC lovers… Dallas is calling

How come all dem MSNBC announcers are all whiteys like Olbermann wrongly claims about the Tea Party?

Whatamoron Olbermann!!!!!


14. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

BTW Olbermann turned arschloch and declined on his show tonight.

Yep, a chicken. Yep, a blowhard. Yep, a moron. And you HA Libtardos eat his “shit” up.

Can you say slapdown?

15. Michael spews:


What your video shows is the folly of making absolutist statements. Tea Party folks skew quite heavily towards the 40 and above, angry, white, republican crowd.

I ‘spose I could pull up all sorts of clips and quotes of people being harangued by righties for refusing to speak in absolutist terms, he’s a flip-flopper and so on. But, that would require effort that you, Puddy, aren’t worth going though for.

16. Michael spews:


The most I’ve ever seen of the man is a clip here and there on the web and I’m not a fan. I don’t have a TV. See, you done went and got your self in the same trouble Olbermann did with his absolutist statement. Seems to me that maybe you’re both a couple of idiots.

17. Michael spews:

Well, I sure am glad that the Tea Baggers and the folks at Fox (non)News are keeping track of the Liberal Neo-Monarchists at Marvel Comics. What on earth would we do with out these peoples dedication?
Ed Brubaker and Marvel Comics recently came under fire by Fox News due to the characterization of a small town protest group in Captain America #602. In the issue, Bucky and the Falcon, tracking down the faux 1950′s Captain America, find themselves in rural Idaho at the center of a gathering anti-government storm. And here Brubaker’s troubles begin.

Due to what’s been deemed both a lettering error and an editorial oversight, a sign that read “Tea Bag the Liberals Before They Tea Bag You” appeared at an anti-tax rally within the story, and a controversy erupted when a conservative blogger supportive of the Tea Party caught wind of it several weeks later and accused Marvel of “making patriotic Americans into your newest super villains.”

18. Michael spews:

Btw, Kirsten Dunst is Turning Japanese.

19. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:


Pay attention… Puddy didn’t get into any trouble. Puddy loaded a clip telling the truth about Keith Olbermann and the “dull star” whitey lineup of MSNBC. You are projecting as Steve would say, “Psych 101″.

Olbermann is a buffoon and this time his shit was returned 1000 fold. Seems you miss the real reason Puddy placed it here.

1) Prof Darryl tends to lean heavily on MSNBC clips. You know Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann.
2) Goldy has used Keith to make stupid attacks on this blog. Remember Goldy’s posting of the MSNBC clip of Keith Olbermann interviewing Janeane Garafalo last year? Need the link? Ask the HA prime time arschloch ylb arschloch for the original link. He has his personal archive, a free backup of Goldy’s HA Libtardo Blog. Go ahead and ask him for the MSNBC thread head link.
3) Did you forget the Tea Party anthem was written by a black man? His name is Lloyd Marcus. Ask the HA prime time arschloch ylb arschloch for the original link. He has his personal archive, a free backup of Goldy’s HA Libtardo Blog. Go ahead and ask him for the original Lloyd Marcus link. Soon Pavlov claims he’ll return to using an old “attack” link in his name header.

FYI, Lloyd Marcus is an active participant in the Tea Party movement, and travels the country performing live at the Tea Party events. So the problem with this old white redneck argument is: If the Tea Party attendees are angry white racists, why would a black man be so heavily involved and perform live at the events? Why would they allow their “movement” to be “soiled” by having a black man front and center?

Another fallacy from the liberal white progressives of MSNBC and HorsesASS.

Not worth the effort Michael? You admit being lazy and shiftless? Well Puddy is shocked at your admission.

Here are a few of comments from “progressive” Dummocrapts… Notice their choice words Michael…

luvs2teach00 – Of course they have to put a negro here to show that the tea baggers are inclusive. It makes me sick when people whether they are democrat or republican talk about their freedoms are trampled on or we need to get back to what the founding fathers invisioned. The founding fathers invisioned Negroes and women as second class citizens and overtaking the Indian savages to fulfill the Manifesty Destiny kick. Now which HA Libtardo who paid no taxes on his 2009 tax return screams about the “Founding Fathers” on this blog?

billybob101013 – this funny the GOP looked around town for blacks an offers them money to be uncle toms lol its clear they all said the same talking points from RUSH white power kkk is alive an well

luvs2teach00 – It made me sick looking at this Negro talking about he is not a koolaid drinking black liberal. Liberalism allow he’s black ass to even be around those white folks and walking down the street and be allowed to speak his opinion. So what if he is fiscally conservative, that is great. I think black folks shouldn’t always put their hope in the Democratic party as well.

Interesting commentary Michael…

20. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Michael, more on Lloyd Marcus…

Puddy knows you won’t visit Lloyd’s blog or ask ylb arschloch for the original link so… On Lloyd’s blog, he tells of all the racism he has experienced while on the road with the Tea Party against himself, BY DUMMOCRAPTS! Your “progressive” friends send him hate mail, threats, and telling him he’s an embarrassment to his own people. Now why is that Michael? You libtardo progressives make such a “compelling” racist argument which falls flat on it’s face. Lloyd is told he denies his own race, so he must be racist against “his own kind.” Puddy calls that amazing libtardo progressive speak! And what’s so sad is it’s here on this blog every day. So who are the real racists Michael? Because one black man has different beliefs from another black man, he is no longer black? So if a white man has different beliefs from another white man, he is no longer white? They both are now RACISTS? Well that was the recent kick of rujax the dumb cinder block of HA. Where was Michael’s voice denouncing those comments? ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE!

21. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Hey Michael, did you forget the “progressive” SEIU thugs who attacked the black man? The arschloch has the link.

Well you won’t ask the arschloch for the link so here it is Michael to remind yourself of your liberal progressive friends who want to keep blacks in the reservation…

Puddy been placing these “progressive” proofs on HA Libtardos for years. Where you been Michael?

22. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Now here is a golf game you can play…

23. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Well, I sure am glad that the Tea Baggers and the folks at Fox (non)News are keeping track of the Liberal Neo-Monarchists at Marvel Comics.

Michael, young minds become indoctrinated with the libtardo progressive kook-aid. (sonic boom noises are heard as the plane zooms over Michael’s head)

24. Mr. Cynical spews:

Once again, the Progressive’s are proving they are DEAF zealots!

Wednesday, February 24, 2010

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 26% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -16.

Forty-one percent (41%) favor the proposed health care legislation while 56% are opposed. As has been the case for months, intensity remains with the opposition. Just 23% Strongly Favor the plan and 45% are Strongly Opposed.
Just 10% give Congress good or excellent marks, while 71% rate Congressional performance as poor.

One day Obam-Mao proposes a BLUE RIBBON Panel to deal with the Deficit…a couple days later he proposes a $1 TRILLION Obam-MaoCare???
Just like Obam-Mao did last time he expressed deep concern about the Deficit…then proposed a $1.6 TRILLION Budget Deficit.

Obam-Mao has failed to come to grips with his loss of stature in America. He’s quickly becoming a Lounge Singer with only a few drunks in the room clapping…and he thinks he’s still got it.
Health Care Reform as proposed is a Massive Deficit. Obam-Mao wants a debate based on HIS NUMBERS?? He’s a liar. Republicans shouldn’t even attend until the Budget impact has been vetted.

25. Mr. Cynical spews:


What is 50′ long and smells like Urine??

Line dancing at Drinking Liberally!!!

26. Mr. Cynical spews:


YLB is proud that he finished a puzzle in 52 days…because up in the corner it said 2-3 years!

27. Mr. Cynical spews:

Notice how the Conservatives are always up bright & early….while the Leftist Pinheaded KLOWNS straggle outta bed around 10AM or so??
Then they post nonsensical BS for a few hours..while tokin’ up a storm.

And they wonder why they are so unsuccessful!
To them, success is posting on

28. Steve spews:

I see that the KLOWN is delivering the batshit insanity again. No news there, just more of the same ol’ crazy. Say, how goes the hope and change thing on the teabagger front?

Oops. It looks like yesterday’s teabagger hero turned out to be a stealth moderate. That’s gotta suck.

29. Mr. Cynical spews:

A little more insight into the impact of Obamunism on the States…
BTW–Obam-Mao’s “shell-game” Health Care debacle merely kicks more financial responsibility to already cash-strapped states. It’s a fraud on taxpayers.

States are holding on to your refunds
Financially strapped states are keeping your money longer to solve cash-flow problems.
Posted by Kay Bell on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:45 AM

Remember when everyone was snickering at California for issuing IOUs instead of tax refunds? Quit laughing. More financially strapped states are holding onto their residents’ tax refunds longer.

The Hawaii Department of Taxation, which already has up to 90 days before it has to send out checks to taxpayers, says that come July 1 it will release refunds on a “first-in-first-out basis.” Delaying refunds will give the Aloha State a one-time savings of $275 million. In New York, one of Gov. David Paterson’s budget proposals could put taxpayers’ refunds on hold to help deal with the Empire State’s budget deficit. The proposal, which could delay some refunds for weeks or even months, is projected to provide short-term savings of $500 million.

The Government Employee Unions have killed the golden goose. I’ve been telling you the past year that Obam-Mao’s borrow & squander and kick the can down the road would eventually end up with Obam-Mao kicking the can against a brick wall!!

30. Mr. Cynical spews:

28. Steve spews:

I see that the KLOWN is delivering the batshit insanity again.

The Atheist Progressive Movement is filled with humorless pinheads Steve. Don’t tell me your one of them??!!!

31. Mr. Cynical spews:

Here is a great article about the Democrats trying to convince America that despite the “Health Summit” and all the Deficit Spending related to it…They are FOCUSED on jobs.

Yeah, right.
Progressive KLOWNS cannot focus on one task much less multi-task.

32. Mr. Cynical spews:

From FoxNews–

Democratic leaders confronted the reality Wednesday that they may not be able to pass the comprehensive health care overhaul sought by President Obama, while Republican leaders prepared to do everything in their power to make sure they can’t. House Republican Whip Eric Cantor declared in a memo that if the Senate goes ahead with plans to use a controversial legislative tactic known as reconciliation to pass the bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi “will not be able to muster the votes” to pass it in the House.

Speaking ahead of Obama’s upcoming televised health summit, House Minority Leader John Boehner also told fellow Republicans in a closed-door event Tuesday: “We need to show up and crash the party,” an aide told Reuters.
“We shouldn’t let the White House have a six-hour taxpayer-funded infomercial on ObamaCare,” Boehner said, suggesting the meeting was no more than a White House publicity stunt.

This is a win-win for Republicans.
If they stop Obam-MaoCare, they are heroes for the majority of voters. If it passes, the Democrats will be destroyed in 2010 and 2012…and the Republicans will not fund it in the future!

You KLOWNS are in quite a pickle here.

Republicans are clearly presenting Tort Reform and Interestate Competition as necessary changes. Dems, like the RabbitPelletizer, will continue to speak in tongues that Tort Reform is a minor cost (avoiding the whole discussion about defensive medicine that Doctors acknowledge is huge).

Our bickering at won’t change the Democrats current dilemma. Telling us they are focused on Jobs while this is being jammed thru is disingenuous. Reid is D-O-N-E!

33. Mr. Cynical spews:

Apparently laughing at the Pledge of Allegiance with a bunch of Union Goons is your idea of the New America??

Watch the U-tube yourselves.
Is this the New Progressive America?
Trust this will be used in Campaigns across America.
Thank Xavier!

Comments from the KLOWNS??

34. jon spews:

Banker Bonus Anger Is Shifting to Government Workers: Joe Mysak

“Businesses have fired 8.5 million people, or 7.4 percent of those on the payroll when employment peaked in December 2007. Local governments kept hiring through September 2008, and since then have fired 141,000 workers, less than 1 percent of the 14.6 million they had at the top, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.”

35. Michael spews:

Actually Puddy, Obermann made an absolutist statement, the Tea Party folks shot it down by showing that in fact there are are a handful of minorities in the Tea Party Movement and then you made an absolutist statement about people on HA. It played just the way I said it did.

That the Tea Bagger anthem was created by a black guy, doesn’t change the fact that the Tea Baggers are predominately over 40, white & Republican. The video you posted @21 does change that either.

“Projection” doesn’t figure into this either.

36. Michael spews:


Or maybe we’ve got better things to do with our time? Or we work late? Both, in my case.

37. Michael spews:


Not worth the effort Michael? You admit being lazy and shiftless? Well Puddy is shocked at your admission.

No. Actually, I’m quite busy and have to prioritize things. Looking up a link for someone that will just ignore it and spout babbling nonsense ranks quite low on the priorities, below looking at comic book stuff and Kirsten Dunst’s boobs, in fact.

38. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

looking at comic book stuff and Kirsten Dunst’s boobs, in fact.

Once again Michael proves there is nothing upstairs in Michael’s mind!

39. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

then you made an absolutist statement about people on HA.

Damn right Puddy did. It’s libtardo progressives who call people who disagree with them Tea Baggers.

You can’t stand the truth Michael. You lickspittle goosestep-lockstep jackboot with the best of them libtardo progressives here. It is a correct absolutist statement. Never seen you disagree with Goldy and others on Tea Party peeps.

40. Wunderlick spews:


You’re citing Faux News as a source?

I don’t think so, try again.

41. Mr. Cynical spews:

Michael drank the Kool-Aid…and gets angrier as the Progressive Movement’s death is more & more apparent.
There seems to be a direct correlation between Angry Progressive banter and the demise of Obam-Mao and his band of Progressive Thieves.
Could you come up with a correlation model Puddy? I know you could..but it’s so obvious, it’s probably redundant. The evidence is overwhelming!

42. Mr. Cynical spews:

40. Wunderlick spews:


You’re citing Faux News as a source?

I don’t think so, try again.

So what specifically in the article is false?
All that is being done is quoting folks.
Do you really believe this Obam-Mao Progressive Take-over with all kinds of tax shifts to already tax-strapped states is going to fly?

Do you believe we can endlessly increase the National Debt?
How will we pay it back?
What are the consequences of this debt?

Attacking the messenger is fine…but without specifically challenging something in the article is kind of pinheaded, don’t you think?
Your hollow attack on Fox is typical of Goldy’s Northwest Division of Lunatic Moonbats!
Too much pot-smoking!

43. YLB spews:

Too much pot-smoking!

Too much? What’s the right amount?

I never touch the stuff myself.. I preach to my kids on the value of keeping a clear head.

Does that make me a right winger?

F NO!!!

26 – An idiot shouting in the wind.. Where’s Troll? Nowhere to be seen in this thread..

44. Mr. Cynical spews:

Now we have Valerie Jarrett blabbing to the Harvard Elite. Check this out–

Jarrett also claims that Obam-Mao is sooooooo bright, that he immediately recognizes his mistakes.
Gee, if Obam-Mao were a tad dumber, perhaps he would recognize his mistakes BEFORE he made them!

45. Be Well spews:

The premier (governor) of Newfoundland, who governs his part of Canada’s excellent single-payer socialized Obamacare system, got his leaky valve repaired in Florida USA. But don’t tell sicko fatso Michael Moore.

And don’t remind Moore that Fidel Castro didn’t entrust his diverticulitis to a Cuban doctor. Comandante en Jefe Fidel emported his medical care from elsewhere. (Has anyone here read Against All Hope by Valladares? Has anyone read that book and stayed on the left?)

46. Be Well spews:

OK. Back off. We know that Obamacare USA backed away from single payer and public option. But we also know Obama said single-payer is where he’s headed, even if it takes several years and several tries.

47. Be Well spews:

Shouldn’t there be color-coded Homeland Security alerts for leftist hypocrisy? Every color of the color code would be revolutionary red, of course.

Proletarian plutocrat Rabbit sending his baby to private snob school instead of proletarian big-govt public school? Code Red.

Canada socialist cutting out of the single-payer queue and jet-setting down to Miama USA to get his valves done right? Code Red.

But better red than dead, I suppose.

48. Burqa Barbie spews:

Bikini Barista Busted for “unlawful pub(l)ic exposure” in Franklin Pierce County.

Anybody attend last summer’s Solstice Parade in Fremont? The barebackin’ bike riders were no big deal, covered as they were in hijabs and burqas of barn paint.

But the toxic little old Darryl look-alike troll who led the parade, wearing chaps and only chaps, padding from one side of the street to the other, stopping in front of the kids to grimace and then to shake-shake-shake …

While swarms of undercover cops were swarming through the crowd to prevent anyone from sipping a beer …

We need some of that Pierce County lynch law here. Start by busting the whole damn Fremont and the fellow-traveler Seattle libshits who giggle and let this happen.

49. Burqa Barbie spews:

Then bust Lee for inciting violations of federal law. A big bust would be a good career move for our beloved Lee. Get him out of his dead-end job and into Olympia municipal politics where he’d fit right in.

And is anyone else troubled about Sanctuary City blowing off other federal laws that seem inconvenient?

50. proud leftist spews:

Anthony Weiner is a national treasure. Finally, a Congressman who can call a whore a whore:

51. Burqa Barbie spews:

Another turn of the Wheel of Leftwing Hypocrites: Last year Doorknob Dan’s Stranger reported that a rub emporium on Eastlake was busted for promoting prostitution. Earlier the Seattle Weakly carried a quote by an attorney general from back east: prostitution, said the AG, is not a victimless crime. It is a crime. Craigslist, the Weakly reported solemnly, abets the crime of prostitution.

So there you have it. Clarity about abetting prostitution from our tree-killer weeklies.

But then you turn to back of our tree-killer weeklies. Both are riding a revenue stream from the promotion and the aiding and abetting of a crime wave.

52. Red spews:

emported = imported

proud leftist: Check out the opening pre-chapter of Witness by Whittaker Chambers, his open letter to his children.

Am not using Witness to impugn anyone here with a Communist smear. All that’s in the dead past.

But Witness is still powerful as a testament of faith, and suggests that faith leads not to the left (as you told us it must or should), but away from the left.

53. proud leftist spews:

I may have engaged in a little hyperbole if I suggested that Christian faith “must or should” lead to the left. It certainly led me to the left, though I recognize that faith acts differently in people. Moreover, there are certain characteristics of the contemporary American right that I find quite at odds with the Gospel’s values. Warmongering and militarism are probably at the top of the list. And, while I’m not antigun, I surely can’t see the right’s fervent advocacy of gun rights as based in Christianity. Supporting torture of suspected terrorists would also seem to have a tenuous tie to Christian values. Just some thoughts . . .

54. Puddybud is Sad my friend died spews:

Hey arschloch, Harry Reid says that unemployed men tend to go abusive. Since he hangs with Dummocrapts he must have been talking about you.

You abuse everyone with your brick-like stupidity.

55. YLB spews:

unemployed men tend to go abusive.

Never raised a hand to anyone near and dear to me. Don’t intend to..

Continue to fantasize Stupes – it becomes you.

56. YLB spews:

your brick-like stupidity.

LMAO!! I couldn’t have described you better myself.

57. proud leftist spews:

Puddy or Cynny or any of you lovable trolls who claim to be Christian, care to respond to my post at 53?

58. Red spews:

First, geography: The political terrain we fight over in the US and at HA is the landscape of the left. We shout about losing or gaining inches of ground, but the ground we fight over was landscaped by Populists in the 1890s and by Progressives and progressives during the last century.

TR and Herbert Hoover were progressives.

Republican Eisenhower rode to presidential power on an inchoate promise of rolling back the Reds over there. He couldn’t even roll back FDR over here, and said it would be fatally stupid to try.

Nixon was a continuation of JFK/LBJ. Reagan nibbled at the edges of our leftist consensus, but left it firmly on the left where Bill Clinton later found it. Reagan governed far enough to the left that Clinton had no reason to roll back Reagan … although Clinton took the first and last bite from the New Deal by munching AFDC.

Clinton left crumbs for the right. Gun rights mostly unmolested, even when Clinton had a Democrat Congress. Torture outsourced via rendition. Lots of warmongering. Clinton and Lyndon and JFK and HST were high on war, as long as other people were fighting them. Carter, alas, couldn’t even get it up in the desert. Probably just as well, since he’d have been as undone by victory as by ignominious defeat.

The point is that there’s been a middle ground for more than a century. Both parties have governed from the middle ground. Both have governed from a place that’s closer to a socialist social gospel than to mean-spirited Republican reaction.

Both parties, but particularly Democrat administraitons, have done things and flaunted causes that you imply are un-Christian.

Here at HA we’re pretty much on the same page, except for mangledtruth who marches to a totally different and disturbing drummer.

So must of the relevant range in our politics is mostly mush. That’s why the old book by Chambers is important. It’s the story of someone who rode the leftwing train about as far as it goes, and finally stared into the abyss of the left’s internal contradictions. And finally faced inconvenient and eternal truths.

Check the Chambers intro. Let us know what you find.

59. Car GBS, Where R U? spews:

GBS was patronizing and parental last week. The Frist Amendment is blindingly obvious, he suggested, and Jefferson’s 1802 letter to Danbury is a blindingly obvious restatement of the obvious First Amendment. It’s all so obvious that Hugo Black in 1947 could only conclude that the First Amendment, which does not mention a wall of separation between church and state, can only be understood as building a wall of separation between church and state.

Here, in case GBS was so blinded by the obvious that he didn’t see it coming, is my reply:

Thanks for information about Everson, although your Heavy SIGHHHHHS were too heavy to lift.

Wiki shows that Rehnquist shared my concerns about the one-and-one-half decade divide between Jefferson’s 1802 letter to Danbury and the drafting of the Bill of Rights, in which Jefferson didn’t participate.

Some, including former Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, have criticized Everson for its reliance on quotations and views from Thomas Jefferson, who had little to do with the framing of the U.S. Constitution or its Bill of Rights … It has been argued that [KKK Hugo] Black interpreted the Establishment Clause to require a “separation of church and state” in order to limit public funds to parochial schools.[2] Supporters of this theory allege that the phrase itself has an anti-Catholic history,[3] and that legal reasoning in Everson was dubious.[4] Indeed, “[s]ome scholars argue that, even if the Everson court’s use of the ‘wall of separation’ metaphor does reflect Jefferson’s views, those views did not at all represent those of the individuals actually responsible for drafting and ratifying the First Amendment.”[5][6][7]

Here are notes 2-7:


#3 Hamburger, id.


#5 Patrick M. Garry, The Myth of Separation: America’s Historical Experience with Church and State, 33 Hofstra L. Rev. 475, 498 (2004) [1]

#6 Philip Hamburger, Separation of Church and State 109, 162 (2002) (contending that at the time Jefferson expressed such views, they were not “widely published or even noticed”).

#7 Michael A. Paulsen, Religion, Equality, and the Constitution: An Equal Protection Approach to Establishment Clause Adjudication, 61 Notre Dame L. Rev. 311, 317 (1986) (“The original intention behind the establishment clause…seems fairly clearly to have been to forbid establishment of a national religion and to prevent federal interference with a state’s choice of whether or not to have an official state religion.”).

I assume from the patronizing and rather parental tone of your discussion that you are familiar with the cited sources, those that support your opinions and those that don’t. Also note that Black’s own vehement opinions are subjected to the test of original intent: Was he, perhaps, working from the anti-Catholic bigotry of his years in the Klan?

As Darryl often does, let’s review: Your arguments, despite being shrill or strident, are strong. The Tripoli Treaty is solid. (Years ago I read Stanley Elkins’ Age of Federalism about the 1789-1801 period, but I spaced the 1796-1797 Treaty. You took me by surprise. You used the Treaty to entrap a couple of my brothers here. Apparently they were also taken by surprise.)

But your previous condition of certitude about Jefferson’s 1802 letter doesn’t carry the weight you pile on it. A little bit of Wiki shows that school’s not out on this. Let’s spend some time with the pro-and-con sources, cited above, and continue our conversation.

Everson, by the way, was an incorporation case. Something to keep in mind while doing review — assuming again that you’re totally familiar with cited sources and others — or research.

60. Where in the World is GBS? spews:

So I went to Hamburger’s Separation of Church and State, cited above. 492 pages by a law prof from Obama’s U of Chicago. 492 pages, and I’m sure GBS has them covered, starting with the intro:

* Frisky WA justice William O. Douglas, after Everson, said that the First Amendment did “not say that in every and all respects there shall be a separation of Chruch and State.” (p.7)

* Chief Justice Burger, long after Everson, said “The line of separation, far from being a ‘wall,’ is a blurred, indistinct and variable barrier depending on all the circumstances of a particular relationship.” (p.7)

* Justice Rehnquist wrote that the separation doctrine is an unsupportable standard that has “proved all but useless as a guide to sound constitutional adjudication.”

* “(I)t is misleading to understand either eighteenth-century religious liberty or the First Amendment in terms of separation of church and state, whether the separation be that of (Roger) Williams of that of Jefferson.” (p.9)

* “According to the myth, the idea of separation of church and state was widely accepted by the time of the nation’s establishment. …” (p.9)

* “(T)he idea of separation did not become popular until the mid-nineteenth century, when opponents of Catholicism — many of them nativists — depicted it as a principle of government evident in most American constitutions, even if it was not guaranteed by those documents.” (p. 10) (Rented Gangs of New York lately?)

* “(A)nti-jChristian ‘secularists,’ who worried that separation had not been fully assured by any American constitution, and who therefore demanded a federal constitutional amendment.” (p. 10)

* “(M)odern suppositions about the wisdom and influence of Jefferson’s words regarding separation have developed largely as part of a twentieth-century myth — an account that has become popular precisely because it has seemed to provide constitutional authority for separation.” (p. 11)

See? It’s all perfectly clear. Just like GBS told us.