Drinking Liberally — Seattle


Please join us tonight for an evening of politics and conversation over a pint at the Seattle Chapter of Drinking liberally. Tonight there are elections in Colorado, New York, Oklahoma and Utah, but we’ll likely ignore them to talk about other issues: the Governor and AG races in Washington, as well as recent and forthcoming Supreme Court decisions.

We meet every Tuesday at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E. Starting time is 8:00pm. Some people show up earlier for Dinner.

Can’t make it to Seattle tonight? Check out one of the other DL meetings over the next week. Tonight there are also meetings of the Tri-Cities and Bellingham chapters. The Burien chapter meets on Wednesday, and the Woodinville chapter meets on Thursday. Then on Monday, the Yakima, South Bellevue and Olympia chapters meet.

With 227 chapters of Living Liberally, including eleven in Washington state and four more in Oregon, chances are excellent there’s a chapter near you.


  1. 1


    Heh. Right wing dings.. If it was good enough for the treasury debt and mortagage backed securities then it should be just fine for the November election..

    303 electoral votes – Obama:

  2. 4

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Yup, interesting map.
    How long can the Republicans win with the coalition of Mormons + farmers + the Confederacy?

    (Yes, bob, I realize that MO, IN, KY and WV were not formally in the Confederacy (rolling eyes))

  3. 5

    polls spews:

    Ohio is 18, Virginia is 13==31
    Lose those 2 and it’s 272.
    Romney still needs one other state..like Wisconsin.

    Tough road, but certainly not impossible.
    Moody’s Analytical…anyone check their methodology out for determining %’s?
    Devil is always in the details.

  4. 6

    Michael spews:

    Moody’s has WI as leaning Obama, I have it as solid and they have IN leaning Romney and I have it solid Romney, other than that everything matches.

    It pains me to watch MO go red. WTF are working class people doing voting for Republicans?

  5. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Call The ACLU!!!

    This will have Republicans lining up to get free ACLU legal representation:

    “A bill proposed by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., would impose up to a five-year prison sentence on anyone who deliberately misleads voters as to the time and place of voting, or … whether a candidate had been endorsed by a particular person, group or political party … [and] also would make it a federal crime to pay someone to not vote and … to hinder a person who is helping someone to vote.”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: A knee-jerk response to this is it’s blatantly unconstitutional, but First Amendment law is nuanced, and I’m not sure that’s a totally safe assumption. For example, you can’t yell “fire!” in a crowded theater. And we’re about to find out if California water board official Xavier Alvarez, who never spent a day in the military, can go to jail for falsely claiming to be a war hero.

    Certainly there’s a part of me that would love to see lying bastards who pull the kind of shenanigans Walker supporters used in Wisconsin thrown in jail. But the lawyer inside me concludes three things. One, it’s unconstitutional. Two, we should want it to be unconstitutional, because we shouldn’t want the government deciding what’s true and what isn’t. Three, if this thing somehow becomes law, you can count on GOP lying bastards to go running to the ACLU for free legal representation as fast as their legs can carry them there. I never saw a Republican turn down a free lawyer.

  6. 8

    polls spews:

    The Intrade odds are currently–
    Intrade Odds Obama 54.0 Romney 42.9

    I think that’s about right today. Shows Darryl’s approach is kind of silly as he shows Obama at 99.7% and Romney @ .3%.
    Someone was will to put $100 on Romney using Darryl’s odds,
    Did he get any takers?
    I didn’t think so.

  7. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Was ‘Show Me Your Papers’ Upheld?

    This is what the majority opinion said:

    “There is a basic uncertainty about what the law means and how it will be enforced. At this stage, without the benefit of a definitive interpretation from the state courts, it would be inappropriate to assume 2(B) will be construed in a way that creates a conflict with federal law. This opinion does not foreclose other preemption and constitutional challenges to the law as interpreted and applied after it goes into effect.”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: I repeat, journalists have gotten it wrong. This part of the law was not upheld; the Court deferred a decision until Arizona state courts have a chance to interpret and apply it.

  8. 10

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 7: A good friend of mine, a lawyer, told me about a neighbor he had once. The guy was a right-wing Republican, and used to give him a hard time about how he was representing “lazy welfare cheats” in lawsuits against honest corporations. He especially attacked contingent fee agreements, which he blamed as being the cause of everything wrong in the country.

    Then the neighbor got into an accident. He was laid up for quite some time, had high medical bills, and was looking at the prospect of being unable to hold a job due to recurring pain from his injuries. He was outraged when the insurance company offered him a nuisance settlement. So he made an appointment with my friend to discuss his options.

    My friend, the lawyer, told him he had a solid injury claim, but that it would require a lot of legal work, cost him $30K in legal fees, most of which would have to be paid up front, and more if the insurance company appealed. Or he could agree to give the lawyer 1/3 of the settlement on a contingent fee basis.

    Attitudes changed so quickly that it almost created a tornado in that little office.

  9. 13

    polls spews:

    Don’t agree that Wisconsin is solid Democrat.
    Here is the exit polling info right after polls closed. Showed Governor’s Race a toss-up and Obama up by 6. They were off by about 6 on the Governor’s Race.

    As polls have closed in Wisconsin, the race remains too close to call. Early exit poll numbers in the recall suggest Republican Gov. Scott Walker and Democratic Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett are neck and neck, while data showed that labor turnout was markedly high. Nearly a third of voters in preliminary polls said they come from union households—an increase from two years ago when only 26 percent of voters represented unions. The high-labor turnout is a bonus for Barrett, since Walker has called for union restrictions. Preliminary numbers also showed that President Obama has 51 percent of voter support compared with Mitt Romney’s 45 percent.

  10. 14

    polls spews:

    11. Roger Rabbit spews:

    @8 I’ll take a 54% – 43% poll in my side’s favor any day.

    you bet. but the point is it certainly isn’t reasonable to represent Obama as a 99.7% certainty to win. shows what a waste of time the methodology being used by HA is.

  11. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @10 Actually, Schumer’s bill just might pass constitutional muster. He’s targeting the well-known GOP tactics of discouraging people from voting by lying to them about when the election is or claiming they don’t need to vote if they signed a recall petition. We’ll find out this week if a politician who got people to vote for him by falsely claiming to be a war hero can go to jail for it. The key test in the “crowded theater” case is whether someone gets hurt. Being deprived of your right to vote by dishonest subterfuges of the sort routinely employed by GOP operatives isn’t a physical injury, but it’s an injury nonetheless. What’s the difference between that, or driving voters away from polling places by stationing goons outside who threaten to physically injure any voter who goes inside? Can anyone seriously argue that making threats is constitutionally protected free speech? And the result is the same — people are deprived of their right to vote.

  12. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @14 If you think Darryl’s statistical methodology is faulty, then tell us why. And, as is standard practice in all math exercises, show your work.

  13. 19

    Serial Conservative spews:

    Guess McCaskill’s decision to abandon Obama isn’t going over so well at the White House:

    The Situation Room ‏@CNNSitRoom
    MT @vplus: Hilary Rosen (@hilaryr) on Sen. Claire McCaskill skipping the Dem convention: “It’s a diss to the President”

  14. 20

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    shows what a waste of time the methodology being used by HA is.

    Shows that the distinction between Darryl’s analysis and individual poll results eludes you.

    Math is hard when you’ve been homeschooled all your life.

  15. 21

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Hey serialbob, will you be attending Drinking Liberally this evening?

  16. 24

    who run Bartertown? spews:

    1. YLB spews:
    Heh. Right wing dings.. If it was good enough for the treasury debt and mortagage backed securities then it should be just fine for the November election..

    303 electoral votes – Obama:

    06/26/2012 AT 3:48 PM

    Hey YLBigot, why dont you tell us about Carly Fiorina again? Oh wait, you forgot about blowjob billy clinton and his debts running back nearly 2 decades..

    that borders on self-ownage.

    fucking clown.

  17. 25

    who run Bartertown? spews:

    once again, for old times sake

    In honor of carl:

    Over Site!

    Way to go carl.

  18. 26


    Silly Polls,

    “The Intrade odds are currently–
    Intrade Odds Obama 54.0 Romney 42.9

    I think that’s about right today. Shows Darryl’s approach is kind of silly as he shows Obama at 99.7% and Romney @ .3%.”

    I thought we had already disabused you of your misunderstanding of what my numbers mean and what the intrade numbers mean.

    One more time. (Sigh!)

    My numbers refer to the “score” right now.

    The intrade numbers are a “market estimate” of the November outcome.

    Both numbers have their uses. When you watch your beloved Packers playing the Vikings, you may well have in mind the Las Vegas odds. But I’ll bet you still mostly focus on the current score, no?

    “Someone was will to put $100 on Romney using Darryl’s odds,
    Did he get any takers?
    I didn’t think so.”

    More idiotic babble on your part!

    Hell, I’d be willing to bet BIG MONEY on the odds from my analysis…but only if you could get the election held tomorrow.

  19. 27

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    21. Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Hey serialbob, will you be attending Drinking Liberally this evening?
    06/26/2012 at 5:55 pm

    23. Serial Conservative spews:

    @ 21

    You’re kidding.
    06/26/2012 at 5:57 pm

    Not at all.
    I haven’t attended (Tuesdays tend to be busy in my family), but I would – especially if I could meet a check-writing job-creator in the flesh.
    You’re not afraid of appearing in-person, are you? Are you 14 or something? Like this guy?

  20. 28


    Moodys : (of the AA+ crowd) 303 electoral votes

    Darryl : 99.3 percent chance of Obama taking 323 electoral votes.

    Right wingers: writhing and wallowing in Obama derangement syndrome. Prognosis: INCURABLE!


  21. 29

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    White House response to Darrell Issa’s hurt fee-fees over FAST-N-FURIOUS!!!!!

    The Congressman’s analysis has as much merit as his absurd contention that Operation Fast and Furious was created in order to promote gun control. Our position is consistent with Executive Branch legal precedent for the past three decades spanning Administrations of both parties…

    Poor Darrell…

  22. 30

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Darrell Issa…. car thief, scumbag, pushed to sidelines by Ahnuld Schwarzenegger in his too-clever-by-half recall of Gray Davis, now GOP hatchet man, trying to fill the shoes of the pumpkin shooter.

    His mother must be so proud…

  23. 37

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Never been there.

    Not hard to find. I would consider it an honor to meet you in person.
    I’d really to learn first hand how you create those jobs, and write those checks.
    I’d also like to compare notes with you about our respective residency experiences.
    Really, I would upend my family’s hectic Tuesday for an opportunity to meet first hand.
    Maybe next week?

  24. 38


    I’ve heard right wingers touting Marco Rubio’s interview with Jon Stewart but I’m watching it and I just hear more right wing hot air..

    Not impressed at all.. The guy’s yet another fast talker of right wing b.s…

  25. 39

    Serial Conservative spews:

    Ah. There it is. My unmasking. What, thence to be posted on HA?

    Pass. Tell ya what. All evidence to the contrary, feel free to dispute what I’ve said. I’m a 53 year old virgin and I live in my gramma’s basement. Tell yourself that and take it from there. I get paid by the Kochs and by Rove’s slush fund to needle you guys all day. I get my lines fed to me by the RNC and by Faux News. Isn’t that what the HA crowd alleges? It must certainly be true then. Just like all Rethuglicans are…… (fill in the blank with the daily pronouncement).

    Go ahead. You have my permission.

  26. 42

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Ah. There it is. My unmasking. What, thence to be posted on HA?

    Prickly. Paranoid.

    As for your fears, I would never post the personal information of someone who wants to stay anonymous and use a nom-de-blog, just like I do.

    (Punitive outing is much more the M.O. of Stefan Sharkansky of SoundPolitics, a sucky little blog populated by old, angry Ayn Rand acolytes.)

  27. 43


    On Fox & Friends earlier this month, Geraldo Rivera said Issa’s committee “looks more and more radical to their own Republican leadership” and that the division “diminishes profoundly the clout of the committee.”


    Heh. Can’t say I’m a huge fan of the tool Rivera, but if he’s worried then I’d say Issa’s just another nut like Dan Burton – totally full of crap.

    Full pumpkin shooter.. That’s too damn funny..

  28. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Mitt Romney said Tuesday that President Obama will have ‘wasted’ much of his first term if the Supreme Court decides Thursday that the president’s health reform law is unconstitutional.”


    In other words, the presumptive GOP nominee is saying …

    Killing Osama bin Laden didn’t matter
    Eliminating Al Qaeda’s other top leaders didn’t matter
    Toppling Moammar Gadhafi didn’t matter
    Winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan didn’t matter
    Ending torture didn’t matter
    Negotiating reductions in nuclear arsenals didn’t matter
    Giving asylum to Chinese dissidents didn’t matter
    Ending Bush’s stop-loss troop policy didn’t matter
    Improving benefits and services for veterans didn’t matter
    Rescuing Americans from Somali pirates didn’t matter
    Preventing another Great Depression didn’t matter
    Saving the banks didn’t matter
    Saving the auto industry didn’t matter
    Reversing the slide in employment didn’t matter
    Keeping cops and teachers on the job didn’t matter
    Extending benefits for the long-term jobless didn’t matter
    Increasing food stamps during economic crisis didn’t matter
    Passing banking reform didn’t matter
    Creating a federal consumer protection agency didn’t matter
    Cutting taxes for the middle class didn’t matter
    Rebuilding FEMA didn’t matter

    According to Romney, none of these things matter; all that matters is reversing health care reform and forcing us back into a broken previous-century health care system. This guy has very weird priorities.

  29. 45

    Serial Conservative spews:

    @ 43

    Rivera also said something to the effect that Trayvon was asking for trouble because of the hoodie he was wearing. You sure you willing to take him at his word on Issa?

  30. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @25 Yep, literacy collapsed during Bush’s eight years, and it will take years (if not decades) to repair the damage.

  31. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 I wouldn’t take Rivera’s word on anything; but I’d almost pay money to watch these rightwingers tear each other apart — it’s the best entertainment in town!

  32. 48

    Serial Conservative spews:

    @ 46

    Gee, RR:

    A report


    that looked at adults 25-34 and compared them to adults 45-54, back in 2005, found that there were fewer adults with a high school diploma in the younger category than in the older one. So the slide was already well under way in the mid-90s. Shouldn’t that be Clinton’s fault instead of Bush’s?

    Or are you full of shit and had no basis from which to blame anyone in the first place, asswipe?

  33. 50

    Michael spews:

    Holy shit.

    Colorado wildfires worsen, 32,000 flee homes

    (Reuters) – A wildfire raging near some of Colorado’s most popular tourist sites worsened on Tuesday, forcing 32,000 people from their homes, prompting evacuations from the U.S. Air Force Academy and swallowing numerous houses at the edge of Colorado Springs.

    From the vantage point of a command post about 10 miles from the path of advancing flames, the entire community of Mountain Shadows, a northwest subdivision, appeared to be enveloped in an orange glow after dark.

    “This is a fire of epic proportions,” Colorado Springs Fire Chief Rich Brown said as ash drifted down on the city and the thick smell of smoke permeated the air.

  34. 51

    Dorky Dorkman spews:

    Remember Newt Gingrich calling Mitt Romney a liar? Michele Bachmann saying Romney’s unelectable? Rick Santorum calling Romney “the worst Republican in the country” to run against President Barack Obama?

    They’re hoping you don’t. And acting like it never happened (even though most of their words are just clicks away online.)

    One by one — with the exception of holdout Ron Paul — the GOP also-rans have coughed up endorsements of their onetime rival. And as they do, they’re pulling rhetorical backflips to distance themselves from their former harsh assessments of Romney.



  35. 52

    Dorky Dorkman spews:

    What Mitt Romney overlooked in November, 2008, was that USA banks were effectively insolvent, but he also failed to think outside the box concerning the role of government.
    Detroit auto companies wanted to restructure, as he suggested they should, but they needed loans to do that, which he didn’t realize they couldn’t get! President Obama floated them loans through the federal government; thinking outside the box!
    I guess that’s one reason Romney is afraid to say anything, now!



  36. 53

    Dorky Dorkman spews:

    Findings from a new media study indicating Republican Mitt Romney has received substantially better press coverage this year than President Obama may have surprised some observers.

    It certainly made conservative activists mad, especially since they relentlessly promote the idea of a left-leaning press that works with the Democratic Party, and according to Fox News, is covering for Obama.


  37. 55

    Michael spews:

    Christian school in Louisiana: Loch Ness Monster exists, disproving theory of evolution

    OK then…

    The more I see stuff like this, the more I think that it’s these sorts of folks much more so than Mitt Romney that we’re up against. If you look at what Mitt actually did as governor of MA he looks closer to me politically than he does to these sorts of people.

  38. 56

    polls spews:

    I totally understand Darryl’s numbers are an attempt to reflect what would happen if the election were today. It’s stimulates good discussion, but kind of meaningless since it isn’t. Right? We can all cherry-pick polls and utilize underlying assumptions to get almost any result we desire. I question Polls that use Total Registered Voters rather than Likely Voters, although Likely Voter underlying assumptions are critical. So it goes.
    But I do wonder how Obama is reacting to his most recent critic, JIMMY CARTER. One-term, economy killer poor old Jimmy Carter. What a pathetic President, although I donate generously to Habitat for Humanity. That’s about the only thing of real meaningful value that Jimmy Carter has done…although it’s 1 more thing than Obama has done!!

  39. 57

    polls spews:

    The heat is being turned up on Holder, by Democrats! Holder will not survive this and will help take down Obama because of the stalling and cover-up tactics. When Border Agent Terry’s parents came out publicly and said it’s obvious the White House is hiding something, that put a human face and human side to this. Devastating for Obama.

    At least three Democrats have joined the ranks of Republicans planning to vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his refusal to turn over Operation Fast and Furious documents.
    The Democrats who have taken that stance so far are all conservative-leaning lawmakers facing perilous political circumstances in their home districts. Republican Rep. Darrell Issa, who is leading the charge on contempt, predicted to Fox News that up to 31 Democrats could be considering voting against Holder — in reference to a letter signed by 31 Democrats last year expressing concern about Fast and Furious.
    Sources told Fox News that about 20 Democrats are likely to vote with Republicans on Thursday.
    The latest Democrats to announce an anti-Holder stance are Reps. Nick Rahall, D-W.Va., and John Barrow, D-Ga.
    “While Republicans and Democrats argue over the scope of the people’s right to know what happened, the Attorney General has decided to withhold relevant documents,” Barrow said in a statement. “The only way to get to the bottom of what happened is for the Department of Justice to turn over the remaining documents, so that we can work together to ensure this tragedy never happens again.”
    Utah Rep. Jim Matheson also circulated a statement announcing he would support the GOP-led vote.
    “Sadly, it seems that it will take holding the attorney general in contempt to communicate that evasiveness is unacceptable,” Matheson said.
    He said the public, Congress and the family of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry — whose murder scene included weapons from the botched anti-gunrunning operation — “deserve answers.”
    The announcement would seem to back up Issa’s claim over the weekend on “Fox News Sunday” that the vote will be “bipartisan.” Issa acknowledges many Democratic lawmakers will face considerable pressure on Thursday to support Holder.

  40. 58

    polls spews:

    It’s interesting how Congressional Candidates are avoiding Obama like he has some dreaded disease.

    The top Democrat in charge of getting other Democrats elected to the House is urging his party’s candidates to steer clear of the national convention later this year.
    The piece of advice from Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, came during the Reuters Washington Summit Tuesday.
    “If they want to win an election, they need to be in their districts,” Israel said of Democratic congressional candidates, according to Reuters.
    The comment follows decisions by several vulnerable Democrats to skip this year’s national convention — to be held in early September in Charlotte, N.C.

    What a slap in the face. Incumbent Dems will have to justify voting with Obama on unpopular issues like ObamaCare, porkulous etc. Just not going to the Convention won’t erase Voting Records.

  41. 59

    Michael spews:

    Why I don’t care what The Supremes have to say about healthcare tomorrow.

    Eighty percent of Republicans favor “creating an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.”

    Fifty-seven percent of Republicans support “providing subsidies on a sliding scale to aid individuals and families who cannot afford health insurance.”

    Fifty two percent of Republicans favor “allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.”

    Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.”

    Add to this the fact that much of the Affordable Healthcare Act has already been adopted by insurance companies and they plan on continuing it.

    One way or another, within a couple of years we’ll have 99% of what’s in the affordable healthcare act and five years down the road no one will be able to remember what the big controversy was even about.

  42. 60

    Michael spews:

    Dems will have to justify voting with Obama on unpopular issues like ObamaCare

    Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.”

    Yeah, that’s real unpopular.

  43. 61

    Serial Conservative spews:

    @ 59

    I’ll settle for there not being a pathway to single payer.

    Don’t forget that all of these additions will be at a cost, which will not be covered by the to-be-struck mandate. So they’ll come from………..

    Where, exactly?

    What we’ll begin to see is that this was never a sub-trillion dollar 10-year undertaking. It’s $2-3T and maybe more than that. When people are squeezed further, and the costs actually begin to materialize, the add-ons, adjusted for their cost, might not be so popular.

  44. 62

    Serial Conservative spews:

    So, if someone on welfare uses their welfare benefits to buy cigs or booze, do the liberals still get to whine about how high the welfare recipient’s total tax bill is because of all of the built-in sin taxes that were paid for the purchase?


    After all, it’s the government’s money paying those taxes.

  45. 69


    Here’s an article that burns right through the right wing Fast N’ Furious bullshit:


    Look at the pic of the guy who headed that thankless task force. Does he look like a gun grabber to anyone?

    The real villain is the N fucking R fucking A…

    and their tools like the klynical klown and his mancrush Darrell f’ing Issa.

  46. 70

    Serial Conservative spews:

    @ 68

    In 2008 Obama got 67% of the Hispanic vote. Now, after all of this, he’s got 66%.

    IOW, he’s sliding.

    Since the poll was done with Telemundo, it’s entirely possible that the Hispanic electorate that is more ‘Americanized’ and doesn’t need Telemundo would be less supportive of the new immigration thing, and would be less likely to support Obama but more likely to vote. I doubt they were sampled.

    Don’t you hate it when your facts don’t fit the meme?

  47. 71


    70 – zzzzZZZZzzzzzz.. Misses the point entirely..

    The future does not belong to your ilk Bob. No matter what happens in November.

  48. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @58 “Incumbent Dems will have to justify voting with Obama on unpopular issues like” killing Osama bin Laden and freeing American captives from Somali pirates.

  49. 73

    Serial Conservative spews:

    Well, this can’t be good for The One:

    TOWN HALL: Obama shrunk aerial firefighting fleet (poll)
    Green agenda targets slurry bombers

    As fire rages out of control on the edge of Colorado Springs, threatening lives and property, it is time we listen to those who have warned us about the negative effect environmentalists and President Barack Obama have had on the federal government’s ability to fight fires.

    Read more: http://www.gazette.com/article.....z1z1wGFzRY

  50. 74

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @73 All I see is an editorial criticizing the Obama administration for, among other things, ending a contract with a private operator of fire-retardant planes due to safety concerns. Maybe this had something to do with that decision:


    The editorial also criticizes the administration for being too slow about making military aircraft available for firefighting.

    But it seems to me the salient point is the administration did make military aircraft available for firefighting — within a couple of days.

    The editorial also criticizes environmentalist lawsuits over fire retardant killing fish in California and Oregon. But if you do a little research, you discover the lawsuits didn’t seek to prohibit use of the retardant, but only sought to require pilots to look at a chart before dumping the slurry — so they’d hit the fire instead of fish. The bottom line is,

    “Forest Service officials insist firefighting won’t be hindered by new rules meant to prevent millions of gallons of retardant dropped onto scorched landscapes each year from poisoning streams and killing fish and plants … [and] the company which operates almost half of the U.S. private fleet of large tanker planes agrees … the new regulations won’t set back firefighters.”

    The California lawsuit singled out for criticism by the editorial did seek to stop the dropping of a particular kind of fire retardant on public lands — one that contains cyanide. And the Oregon “environmentalists” who sued to block the Forest Service from using toxic chemicals in fire retardant were actually Forest Service employees.

    The Forest Service itself admits the retardants that don’t contain the toxic chemicals that were targeted by the lawsuits are “as good or better.”


    But none of this keeps the Heavy Breathers on a wingnut newspaper’s editorial board from trying to blame the West’s raging wildfires on Obama. It apparently doesn’t occur to them that wildfires have been a part of the western ecosystem for tens of thousands of years.

  51. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    While we’re talking about wildfires, this seems like a good time to remind HA readers that Texas GOP Gov. Rick Perry eliminated 85% of that state’s funding for rural firefighting, then went slinking to the White House to secretly ask President Obama for $50 million of federal emergency aid for firefighting when his state burned last year.

    Another budget-slashing, small-government Republican governor in action …

  52. 76

    No Time for Fascists spews:

    it’s almost enjoyable to watch Serial “Ridicule the looks an an African American girl as a joke” Conservative post lies and half truths

    The five-year contract the Forest Service signed with Aero Union in 2008 required participation in a continued airworthiness program, which included a Fatigue and Damage Tolerance Evaluation and structural inspection program. In April 2011, Aero Union informed the Forest Service that the Federal Aviation Administration found the company was not in compliance with its mandated structural inspection program requirements.

    got love the comments for that gazette article

    I’m sure the families of the pilots and crews of the airtankers appreciate the requirement for the airplanes to pass structural integrity tests for these old ex-Navy huge Orions – which the Navy is taking out of military service for the same reasons.

    And I’m sure the families of the 13 people killed (10 crew, 3 on the ground) in the last 4 airplane crashes (2 of which were Aero Union including 1 P-3 Orion) would have rather the aircraft had not crashed due to structural failures.

    Who is in control of the Forest Service budget? That would be your Republican led House.

    Wayne Laugesen is gets his facts from blogs. The 44 tankers he mentioned that are grounded are older junk that the contracting company was dismissed as unsafe and not air worthy. When they fly those B17’s with airframe cracks, the government is liable for the insurance when the planes goes down.

    Congress many, many years ago declared that firefighting should be done by the commercial market. The Forest Service has open ended contracts with all qualified commercial vendors of firefighting aircraft. I have not seen where firefighting aircraft have not been available for this fire.

    It is hypocritical to continuously advocate cutting government, as you have done on many occasions, and then blame the President for not having enough government to deal with our local fires.

    I may be mistaken, but aren’t these the same ilk as the right wing anti-tax, anti-government nut cases that convinced all the libertarian lemmings in COS to vote down a miniscule tax increase knowing full well it would result in a severe lack of fire protection? seems I read there were like 1,200 layoffs in the police and fire department. and now they blame OBAMA? why am I not surprised?

  53. 77

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    There’s no question that firefighting budgets and resources have been shrinking. Funding for fighting western wildfires has been cut $200 million this year alone and $512 million since 2010, and the aerial tanker fleet has shrunk from 43 to 17 planes. The fires now burning in Colorado are being fought, in part, with planes leased from Canada.

    But ask yourself this question: Who is responsible for these cuts? Which party wants to slash domestic spending? Which presidential candidate said we don’t need firefighters?

    “The economic downturn and a Congress dominated by Republicans who want to shrink the role of government make it extremely complicated to divert more funds to forest fighting,” Suzanne Goldenberg reports at the Guardian/UK today.


    The resources for fighting fires in Colorado are so bad that a delegation was formed by U.S. Rep. Scott Tipton (R -3d CD), Rep. Cory Gardner (R-4th CD), and Rep, Mike Coffman (R-6th CD) demanding the federal government provide more funds and equipment to help fight the expanding fires. It’s unfortunate that all three of these U.S. Representatives demanding help for their home state also voted for the Paul Ryan budget cuts which drastically reduced the funding for the federal firefighting program.


    “Just as with Paul Ryan’s slashing of the National Weather Service’s ability to accurately predict major weather disasters like hurricanes and, here in Wisconsin, tornadoes, his budget is also leaving our nation’s first responders without adequate equipment to fight out-of-control wildfires, like those burning in Colorado, New Mexico and across the West.”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Cute. The GOP’s slash-and-burn budget tactics leave the West devastated, then they try to blame Obama. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Conservative Bob.

  54. 78

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Btw, Serial Bob, you’d trip over your own dick less often if you made an effort to verify wingnut drool before reposting it, because a lot of times that stuff isn’t reliable.

  55. 79

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    While all eyes will be focused on the Romneycare ruling, SCOTUS also will decide tomorrow whether Congress can make it a crime to lie about having military honors. My guess is they’ll strike down the Stolen Valor Act because our jails are already so full of dishonest Republicans there’s no room for more.

  56. 80

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Xavier Alvarez will go down in history as the man whose dishonesty defined the limits of a constitutional right to tell lies.

    Mr. Alvarez, after being elected to a California water board, “introduced himself at a meeting by stating, ‘I’m a retired marine of 25 years. I retired in the year 2001. Back in 1987, I was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. I got wounded many times by the same guy. I’m still around.’ Despite this assertion and as the Ninth Circuit stated, ‘Alvarez has never … spent a single day … in … any other branch of the United States armed forces. In short … his self-introduction was … a series of bizarre lies … Alvarez live[s] in a … make-believe world where [he] just make[s] up stories ….'”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: A water board? A fucking water board? I can see a motive in lying about your (non) military service if you’re running for Congress, or for Vice President as Dan Quayle was, but a fucking water board? I don’t get it. Maybe the guy just likes attention.

  57. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Funny how draft dodgers who claim liberals spit on veterans want us to believe they’re war heroes. Do they fantasize about being spat on? Maybe it’s some kind of goofy sexual fetish.

  58. 82

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Lest we forget:

    “Under fire for embellishing his service in the Navy during the Vietnam War, Mayor John Spodofora has decided he will not seek re-election this year, according to the local Republican Club.

    “In an email to club members late Friday night, the club’s screening committee said it was notified Thursday evening by Spodofora that he had withdrawn his request for the club’s endorsement in the November election. …

    “Before the dispute over his military records surfaced, Spodofora was expected to receive the Republican endorsement to run for re-election ….”


  59. 83

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    You don’t see Democrats trying to pull this shit. Wonder why? Maybe Republicans are genetically pre-disposed to deceit?

  60. 84

    Michael spews:

    The righties keep trying tell us that Obama’s in big trouble.

    President Obama leads Mitt Romney in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, according to a trio of polls released Wednesday. These three states figure to be among the most critical battlegrounds in November, as no candidate has won the presidency without carrying at least two of them.

    Obama took all three in the 2008 election. But given his job performance ratings and the mood of the electorate in some of these snapshots, it could be difficult to repeat that victory.

    The righies are wrong. FL and PA will probably go back and forth between now and the election. But, that’s pretty normal and there’s nothing out there to suggest that Obama’s in big trouble.

  61. 85

    rhp6033 spews:

    Wow, that Fast and Furious article gave lots of detail, and it’s a real eye-opener.

    A tiny task force, without funding, finds itself unable to intefere with drug smuggling because (a) it’s not against the law to buy guns, (b) they have to prove that the buyer intended at the time of the purchase to act only as a straw-man, (c) in Arizona there are no limits on the number of guns that can be bought (they even advertise quantity discounts) and quick re-sales are not against the law, and (c) there is no database of gun purchases, records have to be physically examined and notes taken (photocopies not allowed) on a weekly basis. ATF is itself divided between those opposing gun control and those who want to make arrests.

    Federal prosecutors in Arizona, mostly hold-overs from the Bush administration, delay authorizing wire taps for the better part of a year and then the phone mysteriously isn’t used any more. Finally a small number of purchases are authorized but instructions are to interdict before they cross the border, but one malcontent leaves for vacation without making arrangements for interdiction. It ultimately turns out that the targets of the investigation, “recruiters” of straw-man purchases, are actually FBI informants using federal money – the government is effectively investigating itself, with the two branches not talking with one another. Ultimately some 20 names are submitted for indictment, but federal prosecutors in Arizona sit on their hands for months because gun prosecutions aren’t popular in Arizona and the penalties are very low.

    Once the crap hits the fan with the agents murdered in Mexico, the federal prosecutors finally issue the indictments and some low level arrests are made within 24 hours.

    But the malcontent (one of several) had taken advantage of his supervisors vacation to allow guns to be “walked” across the border and for an un-authorized wiretap. When the boss gets back he tries to fix things, getting approval after the fact. But for his efforts in protecting his unruly subordinate he gets slammed – his subordinate promptly goes on 60 minutes and claims that it was HE who objected to “walking the guns” across the border and that he was being discriminated against by his boss. The supervisor’s own boss covers his tail by claiming that he only learned about the entire program after the agent’s murders – despite monthly briefings in detail, and his after-the-fact approval of the malcontent’s one-time gun-walking scheme.

    In the meantime, a website set up by some malcontents devoted to reforming the ATF was regularly giving information to Republican congressmen – the supervisor’s own discussions with his bosses appeared there within a couple of hours, even before things broke open. Another group also took this information, a group of 2nd Amendment whackos led by a militiaman who advocates the armed overthrow of the U.S. government – who is also fanning the flames with the Republicans. As the writers of the article pointed out, you had a curious effect of some WikiLeaks-type folks who wanted to reform the ATF, and another group who wanted to disable and dismantle the ATF, both feeding information to Republicans.

    It seems that Issah and his fellow Republicans agree that they want to use this to damage the President in an election year. But some may also want to handcuff – or dismantle – the ATF in the process. Holder is just a convenient target.

  62. 86

    rhp6033 spews:

    Hey, I’ll go on record now – I never served in the U.S. Military.

    I once was a Junior R.O.T.C. cadet, but that’s as far as it goes. I did, however, win some marksmanship medals, from age 8 and through the ROTC program, despite wearing some serious glasses (later contacts).

    I graduated from high school right after registration from the draft ended at the end of the Vietnam War, and we weren’t involved in any other wars at the time, so I went straight into college. (By straight into college, I mean I left for college two days after getting my diploma – my summer job fell through in a rescession year, so I opted for college instead). By the time I was in graduate school things had changed a bit, so I voluntered for the Marine Researves, but was told my eyesight was too bad. By the time laser surgery was available to correct vision, the military wasn’t really an option – I was in my early 40’s and I had a family.

  63. 87

    Michael spews:


    Never served. I looked into going into the Coast Guard, Gig Harbor had a CG Cutter stationed here when I was a kid, but decided not to do it.

  64. 88

    rhp6033 spews:

    Despite not having served in the military, I think I’m still entitled to be a bit judgemental at the Republican “chickenhawks” who love to send American servicemen and women into combat, but don’t want to take care of them afterwards. In the first place, I’m very reluctant to advocate committment of U.S. combat troops anywhere in the world. In the second place, I believe in taking very good care of them, both while they are serving and for decades afterwards. Third, the U.S. was not at war when I hit the best age to serve.

    In contrast, there are a lot of Republicans who went out of their way to avoid combat service overseas, or in many cases service at all, and yet they can’t seem to keep themselves from using U.S. troops as a way of thumping their chests just to appear “manly”. These deserve the “chickenhawk” label. There’s George Bush, who’s Daddy got him a soft birth protecting Texas from Viet Cong aircraft while serving (or not serving) in the Texas National Guard. Karl Rove, who used his political connection and lies to get student deferments during periods he was taking no classes, until he was declared “not subject to service” in an entry which was apparantly directed by political authories in the Nixon regime. Then you have Dick Cheney, who used similar ruses to avoid serving during the Vietnam war. And lets not forget Rush Limbaugh, who used something which was little more than a note from his doctor complaining about a pimple on his backside to get a medical deferrment. Don’t forget Republican Congressman Kemp, who was exempted from service due to knee injuries that somehow didn’t keep him from playing professional football for years.

    And then you have Romney, who has a different story every few months about how he “wanted” to serve, or was “available” to serve if called, but who actually applied for a missionary deferrment so he could fight communism in the jungles of France instead.

  65. 89

    Liberal Scientist is a a dirty fucking hippie spews:

    Maybe Republicans are genetically pre-disposed to deceit?

    I think there is something to that.

    I think, in part, there are people who are more sociopathic, more selfish, less empathetic, less moral than the average. Percolate that genetic predisposition through a culture of greed and violence and oligarchy…



  66. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Yes, The Economy Is Doing Fine …

    … or so Republican governors are saying of their states, and the Romney campaign is telling them to shut up, because that’s not what Romney wants voters to hear.


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Imagine that. Several Republican governors are saying their states are doing well, and Romney is telling them to shut up, because that undercuts his campaign message. Republican governors are saying the economy is doing fine in their states. And their presidential candidate is telling them to shut up about it.

  67. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Today African-American Marines who had to fight for the opportunity to fight for their country at Saipan, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa were finally honored for their service. They waited nearly 70 years for this recognition. It didn’t happen under Reagan or the Bushes; it happened under a Democratic president who is himself black, and the legislation was sponsored by Democrats. The next time a Republican tries to tell you his party has a monopoly on patriotism, ask him why his party didn’t honor these black veterans.


  68. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Funny how Republicans try to portray Democrats as flag-burning protestors when Democrats fight our wars and Democrats support our veterans. I mean how do draft-dodging GOPers get away with that? It’s very strange that anyone would swallow this stuff.

  69. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Airbus, the European plane maker, plans to build its first assembly line in the United States in Mobile, Ala., in an aggressive foray into the world’s largest market for single-aisle airplanes, people with knowledge of the plan said on Wednesday.”


    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Hahaha, looks like Boeing’s competitor is going to find out what it’s like to try building airplanes with nonunion labor in a low-wage “right to work” state! I don’t think Boeing has anything to worry about except trying to roll out planes from its own nonunion low-wage “right to work” plant in South Carolina.

  70. 94

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Wounded veteran Tammy Duckworth, who lost both her legs in Iraq is running for Congress this year. In 2006, she narrowly lost to a non-veteran Republican who ran a dirty campaign against her. This year, she’s running against a non-veteran deadbeat dad, who no doubt will run a dirty campaign against her. Remember what Republicans did to veterans Max Cleland, John Kerry, and Al Gore? Republicans have no respect for our veterans. Why would anyone vote for them?