I suppose Gov. Chris Gregoire thought she was dodging a political bullet by calling a special session to reinstate I-747’s 1-percent revenue cap on regular levies, but…
In the meantime, Republicans, Eyman and Republican gubernatorial candidate Dino Rossi criticized Gregoire for her response to the high court’s ruling.
“The incumbent is not leading — she is reacting and slowly,” Rossi said.
Well, how the fuck did she think they would respond? Did she really think she’d earn brownie points with the anti-tax crowd? Does she really believe Republicans will vote for anybody but a Republican, regardless of how much she panders to them? Does she really take the Democratic base this much for granted?
The sad thing is, this is one of the few times Rossi is actually right… well, sorta. Gregoire is reacting rather than leading on this issue, but if anything she’s moving too fast. Calling a special session to reimpose I-747 is not only bad policy, it is bad politics, and it will cost Democrats in both the short and long term. As much as I hate to write it, Gregoire’s response to the recent court ruling is as ill-conceived and irresponsible as the initiative itself.
Now I suppose it is possible that this is not just a monumental political miscalculation, but rather, that Gov. Gregoire really does believe that calling a special session to reinstate I-747 is the right and prudent thing to do. But if so, I would hope she could explain how capping local tax revenue growth below the rate of inflation is in any way an act of responsible governance? If the initiative had imposed a similar cap on state revenues, forcing state budgets to steadily shrink year to year in real dollars, even as energy and health care costs soar, would Gov. Gregoire fight so hard to reinstate it? I kinda doubt it.
Yet that’s exactly the fate to which she is condemning local governments, the end result being an endless parade of lid lifts and special levies on the ballot that will ultimately lead to voter fatigue, if it hasn’t already done so. If you want to undermine the ability of government to govern — if you want to set up the Democratic majority for failure — this is exactly the way to do it.
I just can’t tell you how disappointed I am with both the governor and the Democratic leadership. (I could try, but it would involve an awful lot of swearing, even for HA.) This was an opportunity to impose a reasonable cap — say, four-percent or inflation, whichever is lower — while enacting progressive property tax reform. Instead they’ve chosen to cave to Eyman and Rossi, while offering a half-measure in the form of tax deferrals. I suppose I’ll have to wait until I see the details to comment more fully, but a deferral is generally little more than that, and would do absolutely nothing to address our most regressive tax structure in the nation.
I guess Gregoire and her people are trying to play it safe in an election year, but playing it safe is how she almost lost in 2004. And it’s a terrible way to kick off 2008.
Does she really believe Republicans will vote for anybody but a Republican, regardless of how much she panders to them?
Politicians are stupid,…look at Slade Gorton. He actually thought that by saving the National Endowment for the Arts when the repubs had it squarely in their sights that the state dems would toss enough votes his way to keep a reasonably senior senator in power. Stupid him.
I guess years of hate-speech by far left bloggers as well as playing the class envy and race cards by even the mainstream Dems have had their effect.
Nobody is willing to compromise anymore. Both sides would rather see the world grind to a halt than meet the other person half way. Of course, in the end, that favors the repubs….at least the ones that wanted a minimalist government anyway.
In the words of PacMan, my buddy: Goldy – Awww Poor Baby.
Puddy says – You can pay my taxes for me.
Well, at least the war on the environment is going well.
So Goldy, you want your taxes going up every year 4% or the inflation rate?
With this proposed yearly tax increase, how will you keep your daughter in those private summer camps?
Goldy, Based on your tax theories vs. Tim Eyman’s initiatives, I recently saw this comparison on a blog: I would rather bird hunt with VP Dick Cheney than drive over a bridge with Senator Ted Kennedy.
The bottom line is, regardless of partisan bullshit, that the will and intent of the voter is clear. The people have spoken, and it is so; despite what some liberal judge and their legal twisting of the “language” thinks. Get a grip Goldy. It appears that as always, you’re just jealous of good buddy Timmy once again. Why? He acts, you flail and spew-nothing more.
Whether you like it or not, it is the prudent thing to do. Gives Rossi and the Republicans one less issue to hammer her on.
The real issue in property taxes is not a simple annual cap like 747. It’s something that REALLY works, like Proposition 13 in California. Only something like that will guarantee that elderly people on fixed incomes who have already paid for decades to build the infrastructure we all use aren’t squeezed out of their homes by rising property taxes used to build new infrastructure for johnny-come-lately new comers.
If the dems really gave a damn about seniors, that’s what they’d try to pass.
Whether you like it or not, it is the prudent thing to do. Gives Rossi and the Republicans one less issue to hammer her on.
Well if THAT’S the case, she should reverse the legislation that permitted Sound Transit to exceed their original budget and downsize the scope of light rail without another vote of the people like we had in 1996, because sure as hell they’ll be after her for that too.
“Upton says:
Whether you like it or not, it is the prudent thing to do. Gives Rossi and the Republicans one less issue to hammer her on.”
And… it gives HER something to hammer. Ya know…. because she OBVIOUSLY cares about lowering taxes.
This is ONLY about next years campaign, and very little to do with the will and intent of the voter.
But then, I am a bit cynical.
Obligated to disagree here, Goldy.
Until it was declared an unconstitutional (for you right wingers out there … that’s the thing our forefathers agreed to when we became a state … many of the ideals came from a thing called the enlightenment) initiative (ergo Law), nothing had to be done.
Now, something is being done about it.
@3…Puddybud…
Private summer camps? Didn’t you know, in a technophilic culture, they’re going the way of the dodo bird! http://www.crosscut.com/blog/m.....addiction/
What Goldy fails to recognize is that the special session is as much a slap at the three-member “majority” on the State Supreme Court as it is anything. Of course, the strong popularity among the people of the 1% lid helps, too, so take the will of the vox populi and the woefulness of SCOW (in this case, an apt acronym) and you have not only what the people want, but what they will insist upon to the point of remembering come Election Day, 2008,
Goldy’s opening essay is filled with fallacies, among them is this:
“If you want to undermine the ability of government to govern…this is exactly the way to do it.”
The ability of government to govern isn’t measured by its ability to tax, but by its ability to make choices among competing priorities and offer leadership while always acknowledging the ultimate sovereignty of the people.
Pretty much every local jurisdiction affected by I-747 had come to terms with its measures, thought in its terms, and governed accordingly. All the Gov and legislature are doing is maintaining the status quo.
It’s sad that to many on the left quality of life rises and falls on the power of government to tax. The more it does so, the better the quality; the less, the less. I genuinely pity anyone who’s so dependent upon suckling at the government teat that they behave like an addict in withdrawal at the thought that they might have to make do not necessarily with cuts in that which they’re addicted to, but a constant level.
Leaders are elected to make choices. Pandering to those who clammor for more and more by knee-jerking to the top of the tax chart isn’t making a choice, it’s enabling dependent behavior. Learning to say, “No,” requires guts, and politicos at all levels need to learn how to campaign in the people’s interests, not the special interests.
I had an elected official comment to me recently on how it’s a constant litany of constituent demands for more, more, more. More parks, more soccer fields, more activities, more services…again: more, more, more.
Yet there isn’t a commensurate willingness to pay for them. Take Lee Moriwaki of The Seattle Times, who recently cried out for her walk-on ferry from Vashon to Seattle as something for the public good. Lee gets reliable transportation paid for by everyone else; an idyllic island lifestyle subsidized on the backs of Joe and Jane Doakes who struggle to come up with the rent and make ends meet.
Whatever happened to, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country?”
To any whose quality of life rises and falls on the amount of their dip into the public trough, a message: your life is your responsibility, not everyone else’s; if you don’t like your situation, change it.
It’s just that simple. May not be easy, but the answer, as it often is, is simple.
The Piper
All the anti-1% arguments being made now by opponents are exactly the same as those made during the I-747 campaign in 2001 — AND THE VOTERS REJECTED THOSE ARGUMENTS AND APPROVED THE INITIATIVE BY A HUGE 200,000 VOTE MARGIN. But just to reiterate our response to the tired argument: “but how can local governments survive at 1% – that’s below the rate of inflation?”
Here’s what a a long-time legislator said yesterday in a press release: “Property tax collections have continued to be a strong, growing revenue source since I-747’s approval, rising at an annual rate in excess of 5 percent due to new construction and voter-approved increases. This is more than twice the rate of inflation during that time frame.”
He’s correct.
Governments get property taxes from multiple sources — when all these sources are added together, it’s much higher than inflation. They get property tax revenue from the 1%, from new construction, from improvements, from annexations, from real estate excise taxes, from valuation jumps, and from voter approved levies (levy lid lifts have a 70% success rate with the voters). And that’s revenue just from property taxes. Remember, local governments get revenues from other taxes and fees — so it’s important to look at overall revenue — when you do, local governments consistently get revenue growth two or three times greater than inflation EVEN AFTER THE ELIMINATION OF THE STATE MOTOR VEHICLE EXCISE TAX (repealed by the Legislature in 2000) AND AFTER THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PEOPLE’S 1% PROPERTY TAX CAP.
Tax hungry governments need to see the restoration of the people’s 1% property tax cap as a gift compared to what the taxpayers really want — across-the-board property tax reductions. Governments should consider themselves lucky if the 1% cap (without loopholes and repealing ALL ‘unused banking capacity’) is enough to satisfy the voters of this state when it comes to our state’s property tax problem.
—–Original Message—–
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: Voters don’t care about motivations, they care about results
November 19, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
To: House & Senate elected officials & Governor Gregoire (cc’d to our thousands of supporters throughout the state & all media outlets (reporters, columnists, editorial writers, and others in newspapers, radio, and TV)
From: Tim Eyman, Jack Fagan, Mike Fagan, & Mike Dunmire
RE: Voters don’t care about motivations, they care about results
With a property tax special session confirmed (because Speaker Chopp said so, and Speaker Chopp gets what Speaker Chopp wants), the focus now turns to the bill. We addressed this with our first email the day of the ruling: MSG TO GOV & LEG: HERE’S THE MINIMUM. But to recap:
* 1% means 1%. Voters were clear when they approved I-747 – up to a 1% hike if unilaterally imposed by ANY taxing district, higher than 1% required voter approval. Not 1% for some governments and higher for others – it was 1% across the board. Anything higher than 1% for ANY type of government is not acceptable to the voters. Local governments can’t be rewarded for suing the voters and getting the court’s to buy their voters-are-stupid arguments.
* ALL unused taxing authority — ALL banking capacity — must be eliminated in its entirety. Voters are expecting 1% to mean 1%. Right after voters approved I-747’s 1% cap in 2001, the Port of Seattle unilaterally jacked up property taxes 37% — they said they had ‘banked’ it. Voters saw it (rightly) as a betrayal of their vote. Remember, voters approved I-722 in 2000 and IT TOTALLY REPEALED BANKING AUTHORITY. I-747 did not allow banking authority; it was only because of the court’s ruling on I-722 that banking authority was resurrected. If local governments want banking authority PROSPECTIVELY, that’s one thing, but the slate must be wiped clean and all unused taxing authority built up before I-747 until today must be repealed to keep faith with the voters. If the Legislature allows any local government to exceed 1% right after passing a bill that promises 1%, voters will be extremely angry and frustrated that Olympia passed a bill that promised one thing and delivered something else. 1% needs to mean 1%.
* Clarify the law on ‘temporary levy lid lifts.” King County Assessor Scott Noble was the whistleblower on this. The Seattle Times slammed the Legislature for it and the response was weak: it was not our intent. Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, voters want it fixed. Temporary lifts must be temporary, not legislatively ‘enhanced’ so they’re now permanent.
Voters don’t care about motivations, they care about results. If the Legislature and Governor in this promised special session adopt a bill where 1% means 1%, repeals ALL banked capacity, and closes the lid lift loophole, there will be plenty of credit to go around. If they don’t and they screw over the voters with a loophole-laden bill falsely claiming 1% when in fact it’s not, then voters will be (rightly) ruthless to incumbents, regardless of party.
In light of the special session, the Scarlet Letter announced this morning will be revised so that legislators who oppose 1% means 1%, who oppose repealing ALL banked capacity, and who oppose closing the lid lift loophole will be publicly identified after the special session is completed.
Regards, Tim Eyman, Jack Fagan, Mike Fagan, & Mike Dunmire
Goldy …
This action by Gregoire is exactly what I have been saying. She is a terrible leader.
If she is t beat Rossi, then there needs to be a lot of change in the way she behaves. She needs to pick issues that resound with the voters and then really back them. This is not a matter of bragging about an all female leadership or functioning as a trade ambassador.
Some examples:
Immigration reform .. the mix of farmers and liberals in WA state makes this a natural.
Support for higher Ed. The voters speak on this all the time.
Regional and state wide transportation PLANNING.
I even thnk ththereis room for tax reform. Tim Eyman (the real one?) actually has a point. The focus on taxes as a percentage is dumb. It is not just dumb because of indfaltion, it is dumb because t has little to do with the net incone of the state.
People are far more concerned with total gov., expenditures BECAUSE ultimately that is how their taxes work. I do not think she should campaign for an income tax, yet, but I do think she could campaign on law that deals with real estate inflation, subsidies for companies like Vulcan, and replacing the b&O tax with something sensible.
Anyhoo …
My main point is that Gregoire may lose.
The WA supreme court was wrong in declaring I-747 unconstitutional, stating the voters “didn’t know what they were voting for.” The voters knew exactly what they were voting for, and it wasn’t for the court to interpret the voters’ intent. Those “judges” overstepped their bounds and should be un-elected ASAP.
re 1: What exactly do you mean by “class envy”? Define your terms.
Mr. Hanshaw: Gorton lost? Caca Maria’s 2000-vote-blowout was an easy morning’s work for Dean Logan and his elves.
Excellent comments, as usual, from Piper.
Somebody in the last day or two compared Monson unfavorably with Goldstein. Said Monson, unlike our nuanced (Fuck you!) Goldy just rattles off talking points and blows smoke. Au contraire. Monson, within moments of drunk Bobbe’s decision and with the counsel of Honest Democrat Scott Noble, nailed down every salient issue that ensued from the knee-capping of 747. Goldy, after two weeks, still doesn’t get it.
Mr. Eyman, last night on Shiers, showed why “Governor” Gregoire knows it was absolutely necessary politics to call a special session. To have delayed would have allowed every village, middlesex, and taxing district to cash in their banked capacity and to build a new baseline before a desultory legislature got around to reimposing a cap. Christine is an idiot, but she knows how to count: Every day of delay and every new dollar of plunder would have been an extra point in Dino’s winning margin.
I said she knows how to count. Should have said she knows how to count to about 133.
Gregoire started strong and has been going downhill ever since. It is now two full years since the 912 campaign (and more than seven years since the earthquake) and there is not even an agreed upon PLAN (or even a process to come up with a plan, much less any construction, to replace/rebuild/fix the Alaskan Way Viaduct). Is it any wonder voters rejected Prop. 1 after such a staggering failure of leadership.
Progressives missed the boat in electing the inferior politican Gregoire over the truly masterful Sims in the 2004 primary.
Tim has a very good point that Goldy won’t acknowledge, thus revealing the inadequacy of Goldy’s argument. And that is that Government doesn’t just make money from property tax, and so it’s not 1 to 1 pegged to inflation. There’s plenty of money in WA government right now. A surplus was recently posted. Let’s see good stewardship of the existing funds before tax caps rise.
From an excerpt posted on Scott McClellan’s (former Bush spokesman) publisher’s Web site and discovered by Editor and Publisher:
“The most powerful leader in the world had called upon me to speak on his behalf and help restore credibility he lost amid the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. So I stood at the White house briefing room podium in front of the glare of the klieg lights for the better part of two weeks and publicly exonerated two of the senior-most aides in the White House: Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.
“There was one problem. It was not true.
“I had unknowingly passed along false information. And five of the highest ranking officials in the administration were involved in my doing so: Rove, Libby, the vice president, the president’s chief of staff, and the president himself.”
Hey Goldy:
The taxes assessed are just a minimum. You are free to mail in as much money, over and above the assessed rate, as you see fit. The government will gladly take it. In fact you can mail them money any time you like.
So may I suggest that you screwballs back up your bullsh*t bluster get with it?
Piepr Scoot-anyone who reorts to quotes from Crosscut.com is not ready to enter conversation in a room of adults. And when you make the quote along with your usual extensive blather regarding what you think you remember from third grade social studies class about how government operates, well…Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har Har
The interesting thing is that Dems caving isn’t only a local problem, it’s a NATIONAL one. It was relatively easy, from the position of the minority party in Congress, for the dems to snipe away at the majority. Now, having BECOME the majority, they are realizing that the tactics they used to win the majority wouldn’t let the country work. So like Hillary, they are waffling all over the place.
The problem is, this isn’t winning them any support from the repubs who got scant help from them in governing toward the center when the dems were in the minority, so now they are returning the favor. The result? One of the lowest Congressional approval ratings on record:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/102.....al-32.aspx
But that’s not the half of it. The thing that will kill them is the DISAPPROVAL rating….currently at 69%.
@24…GH…
And the more Congress tries to enact what is essentially the HA Happy Hooligan agenda, the lower those numbers go! Who knew???
The Piper
@16
glass eye guy, save me some time, OK?
Which word of “class envy” didn’t you understand?
Hmm all this talk of the voter’s will. When you elect a local government that is the voter’s will too, no? So if they raise taxes too much you can vote them out. But ifyou lose on that you are not in favor of the voters’ will, no?
And isn’t it true that conservatives think that local government is best, not the big bad state government? So why should there be a state law from state government telling local governments what to do?
It really boils down to this: letting voters in Walla Walla and Colville tell voters in Seattle and Bellevue how high their local government taxes should be. This is the voter’s will that Eyman refers to: voters statewide taking away your right of local government and your right to tax yourselves through local representation. It takes away your right to vote on the local level. It “nationalizes” (I mean at the state level) your local government by putting a statewide lid over your local choices.
@23…Rev…
Hey, just cause you got your head handed to you at Crosscut by Chuck Taylor because of your whining about Crosscut not becoming essentially HA-lite is no reason to criticize it. Besides…be careful ragging on Crosscut…some at HA have good friends over there.
If you’re so whoop-de-doo, why don’t you start your own on-line publication? Or would you need a government handout because you’re pathetically inept at making your own ends meet? Alone, you’re living proof that government handouts serve only to prolong public misery; you’re the poster boy for why Tim Eyman is necessary.
The Piper
If the dems really gave a damn about seniors, that’s what they’d try to pass.
They’d try to pass an income tax, more specifically correct the regressive, unfair tax system. I hope that’s what the Dems have the courage to do if Gregoire is re-elected. It’s never going to happen with Dino.
The Dems get one more chance with me. If they don’t come through, well, they deserve what they get.
“Hey, just cause you got your head handed to you at Crosscut by Chuck Taylor because of your whining about Crosscut not becoming essentially HA-lite” The Reverand does not recall this incident that you chortle on about Piepr. HA also has friends at the Stranger like America’s favorite cocksucker and Iraq War Supporter Dan Savage. So What? the Reverand works for a living, does not take Government largess and does not engage in Republican/religious right type activities in public restrooms-just to quell that charge before you level it-Piepr.
And to refer to the loathsome liar Tim Eyman in a post to me hurts Piepr. It hurts! owwwwwie! Goldy’s pal Dan Savage once coined the term “Caesar Salad” to describe the experience of having someone fart in your face while you give him a rim job. Piepr Scoot would be a more appropriate term. And Goldy you are judged by the friends you keep. Dan Savage. Joel Connelly. ewwwwwwww
28 – Ha, ha, the pooper blowhard had his sorry ass handed to him.
Fitting justice.
Why do we even have inflation? Isn’t it inflation that should be capped? What’s wrong with a stable currency? What’s wrong with the idea that money you put into a savings account paying 4% a year won’t lose its value at a rate of 6% a year? Is it any wonder the U.S. has one of the lowest savings rates in the world?
Congress should pass a law against inflation. If the dollar devalues anyway, the dollar should be shot.
Tim Eyeman, from the bottom of my heart I want to thank you for your initiatives that have saved me thousands of dollars over the years. Thank you for protecting my money from being confiscated by those that feel a divine entitlement to my earnings. I will continue to vote for every single initiative you put before the voters. Tell me when and where to sign the next signature gathering and I will bring my family along to sign as well.
@30…Rev…
Nice to see that your IQ centers around the front and back of just below your waist. Certainly, your fixations with those functions is an illumination into the unflushed toilet that sits upon your shoulders.
I only charge behaviors I can prove…Since you’re the one with them on your mind, I won’t make an issue out of your fears of being exposed. Remember…you raised them, not me.
Glad you’re so free to blog on the boss’ time. Since I own the company, I’m free to do it since all my time is my own. Ain’t free enterprise great?
As to Tim Eyman? He’s your daddy now, Rev, since even the Gov and Democrats in Oly are, on the issue of I-747, pledging loyalty and fealty to it and, by extension, him. Postman has a great piece on his blog that offers the following insight:
“It seems unlikely that the anti-747 forces will have much influence in the special session. I wonder, though, what happens next year when Eyman will push yet another initiative. Are we to believe the horror stories opponents will tell about what will happen? And what to think when legislators — who next month will likely approve a 1 percent limit — next complain about the difficulties of governing by initiative?
There are those on the left who have long tried to say that Eyman is washed up. But the truth is he continues to be a powerful force in Washington. The Supreme Court can’t stop him. And now one of the largest Democratic majorities the Legislature has ever has signed on to his team.”
If I can summarize Postman thusly: welcome to being caught up in the great sweep of a historic tide; you can fight against it and lose, or go along with it and enjoy the ride.
As for Joel Connelly? He’s so yesterday, mean, and out of touch that it’s no wonder he “writes” for the P-I, speaking of which: what’s its circulation again?
As for Crosscut…your repeated rebukes directed against Chuck Taylor for not acceding to your pretty ugly demands that he morph Crosscut into a Rev Money endorsed muckraking rag were about as back-of-the-hand as you could ask for. But subtlty is lost on one such as you, so it’s no wonder you have no recollection.
So, Rev, where’s your church again? In what outhouse do you congregate? I’d like to know in order to avoid your Sunday services…
The Piper
@31…YLB…
He who laughs last…is an Eyman supporter, and right now we’re all having a laugh riot!
Rev is a lily livered pantywaist in the insult department, yet he’s got you beat six ways to Sunday. But you can take consolation in all the money Tim Eyman saves you. If you want, donate it to King County, your city, Washington State, or buy one short beer, which, given what I suspect your portfolio to be, will exhaust your savings.
Have a nice day!
Yours truly,
The Piper
The Piper
35 – Owwww. Pooper that hurt. We’ll see who gets the last laugh. Your hero Timmeh still can’t write an initiative that holds up to save his life.
He’s a liar and a hustler and you’re often judged by the company you keep so we know what you’re all about.
I’m a homeowner myself and I appreciate a tax break like the next guy but you should by now what my position is on the tax structure in this state – it is seriously FUBAR.
And I also know your ugly Republican crowd, fueled by BIAW and Dunmire money is only going to make it even worse if they’re given a shot at it.
Timmmy doesn’t want to write an initiative that will hold up. he writes initiatives to get money out of gullible folks lik Piepr Scoot. If Timmy actually achieved success he would have to get a real job. Piepr-please tell your readers your real name so when we see a report in the newspaper that you have been caught in a public restroom wearing a wetsuit with a $20
bill in your hand we will recognize you as you. Your assumption that I make posts on my employer’s time dear Piepr, is based on what information? You see Piepr that charge is emblematic of how you do go on about things of which you know nothing about.
Anyone who claims to have insight into the “voters’ will” five years after a complicated measure was voted upon is either delusional or simply dishonest. The electorate is different now. The times are different. I-747 should never have been submitted to the voters, anyway. Rewarding Timmy and his disciples with a special session of the legislature is wrong.
@13
“LL unused taxing authority — ALL banking capacity — must be eliminated in its entirety. ”
How about the banked capacity of those jurisdictions that chose 0% for years and not the 1% because they were living frugally and from growth and not just taking that maximum? It seems that banked capacity is fair as they had the restraint to not use or lose it.
For those few local governments that did that….it would seem unfair to remove that banked capacity.
It is a political fact that an elected body and executive can expect to be faced with a situation where two conflicting realities exist. First that the “will of the people” has been expressed and second that this will was expressed based upon a basic misconception of what they were voting on.
I think this is the case here. And before I am misunderstood, let me say that I think the voters were voting for lower property taxes. What many thought though, was that a yes vote would limit the overall growth in their annual tax bill and this was compelling for many who might have voted otherwise had they not perceived the carrot as being so large. Next year my property tax bill will grow by over three thousand dollars due to a huge increase in the valuation of my property. How would most people vote if they could stop such an annual jump? By contrast the effects of 747 will be a blip on my tax bill.
The fact is that many more urban cities and counties passed the 6% hike in local taxes without giving the vote a thought for years. It is also true that more rural cities, counties and junior taxing districts have been and will continue to be harmed if the 1% limit is upheld.
Gibney and others have educated me in regard to these very real impacts to an ability to provide much needed services.
We elected our representatives to “do the right thing” and I would submit that there may be more than one right thing to do in this special session and the legislature may make a choice that is in part political while intending to work on addressing the rural issue at a later date. We exist after all in a democracy and this fact can limit our governments ability, at times, to do what is best for every segment of our population with a single vote. I have faith in our states leadership though and expect more work will be done to help those communities disproportionately impacted by the 1% cap.
“Does she really believe Republicans will vote for anybody but a Republican, regardless of how much she panders to them? Does she really take the Democratic base this much for granted?”
Well as I see it, the Gov is simply doing her job. I know this is hard for Goldy and the far left HA’ites to understand, but she had a choice of enforcing the will of the people, or handing her opponent a massive issue which could cost her re-election. Not much of a decision, a no brainer if you ask me. You see, the Democrat base has gone from firm left to fringe left. So does she take the base for granted? or is she just afraid of what they’ve become? I think the Gov recognizes that there are far more moderate “Lieberman” Democrats out there, than HA Democrats, and that is why she is quickly moving to re-instate the language of 747 into law. The will of the people wins..
I thought I read somewhere that I-747 was written by one of the WSC justices… How interesting that his own court found his language unconstitutional…. Guess that’s another topic.
Since when is there such a thing as “safe” in an election year?
Gregoire as a leader
The issue Tim Eyman raises is very important.
Tax payers do not have the tools or the knowledge to know what is and is not a tax increase. If I raise your taxes by 1% but in doing so offset your fixed costs, e.g. by healthcare reform, then have I really raised your taxes? OTOH, if instead of raising taxes I devalue your currency so the cost of living goes up … has my tax cut actually been a net tax increase?
EDUCATION and LEADERSHIP … these are the central functions of a head of state .. President or Governor.
Consider the income tax issue. Our system is not only regressive it is catastrophic in a recession. A sales tax FEEDS recessive forces. A good leader would teach that to her constituency.
Consider the effects of inflation. Tim has this right. Taxes can not be looked at only as the % vs, the source, e.g. sales. The net income to the state, esp after inflation, is the real issue. PLace a high enough tax on something and you will decrease sales AND tax income. OTOH, the lack of a tax on income .. esp unearned income, in this state means that we overtax our people on their needs. If I earn 30,000 and most of this goes to food, fuel and lodging .. and i am paying a slaes tax at 10%, I am paying 3,000.
But if i am making 200,000 and pay the same 10$ on my living costs, I may only spend 50K a year (assuming I leve just a little better than the 30k guy). So, I am paying 5,000.
Question … do Tim’s voters understand that the tax on 30000 is 10% and the tax on 200,000 is 2.5%??? Of course NOT! Whose job is it to teach these facts? G-R-E-G-O-I-R-E. And she does not do it!!!!
The same issue comes up with Tim and car tabs or Prop 1. By deferring action we are taxing our children at a horrendous rate. Why doesn’t the Guv get on the tube and explain what happens to folks who do not pay there own way?
I realize SJ has become a one note Charlie on this but it irritates me a great deal to see people I respect in the liberal community have their good work wasted by a Governor who can not lead.
Can anything be done? If I had the $$$ I would go to someone I think is head and heals above her and tell them I wold finance a race for the nomination of only to threaten her. I have neither the $$ nor the candidate.
I also worry that a negative blogosphere could elect Rossi. That includes CG providing meat for our friends on the darkside but I also have trouble seeing here getting enthusiastic support from the good force.
@42…AF…
In the drug store you can purchase one under a variety of trade names such as Trojan. No restrictions I know of preventing you form picking up three or four dozen during an election year. HA Happy Hooligans will probably need as many as they can get since no matter who wins in ’08, they’ll be the ones screwed.
The Piper
41: Justice Jim Johnson recused himself from the outrage because, in 2001, he helped draft Tim’s Initiative. Fairhurst also stepped aside. That’s why Bobbe Bridge picked up two temps from Labor Ready (too much trouble to drive up to Casa Latina in Seattle) to fill her landslide 5/4 inside straight.
Your analysis of Eyman groupie Gregoire looks good, unlike Gregoire.
44 Pipey, by the time the smoke clears, we’re all going to be walking bow-legged.
Some thoughts/action at Washblog
http://www.washblog.com/story/2007/11/20/18316/693
LOWER MY TAXES
Thank you!
To tell you the truth, Goldy, I’d rather have Gov. Gregoire and the Democratic legislature reinstate the 1% property tax cap, than see Gov. Rossi and a Republican legislature do it. I prefer pragmatism to self-immolation.
The three member decision of the state Supreme Court 12 days ago on I-747 was ridiculous as a matter of state constitutional law. This decision allows the legislature to derail any initiative that seeks to amend the text of existing law — simply by passing a law in the meantime to amend existing law, and thereby making the initiative gramatically incorrect.
And the people of this state realize that. So I don’t think Governor Gregoire or the legislature has any practical alternative, other than reinstating I-747. It is appropriate to do this in a one day special session, without any other topics on the agenda. If I-747 needs to be amended from Tim Eyman’s impractical 1% per annum cap, this can be done in the regular 2008 session or something later.
This low income property tax deferral — which I haven’t seen the actual text up — could just be a bunch of crap, without practical value. At the present time, only low income senior citizens can do this — but the deferred taxes bear 5% interest. At least I think it is 8% — and only about 1% of those eligible take advantage (?) of this. So it will provide no practical relief, even if expanded to all lower income citizens. Not to mention the requirement that a mortgage holder must approve the deferral, and the total debt (including mortgages, deferred taxes, and interest on deferred taxes) on your property cannot exceed 80% of assessed value.
@1 “Politicians are stupid,…look at Slade Gorton. He actually thought that by saving the National Endowment for the Arts when the repubs had it squarely in their sights that the state dems would toss enough votes his way to keep a reasonably senior senator in power. Stupid him.”
Slade “Indian Fighter” Gorton lost to Cantwell by about 2,200 votes. Cantwell got more than 2,200 votes from the Native American bloc. Gorton’s years of promoting Indian-hating bit him in the ass. He had it coming.
@49…RR…
To you self-immolation; to us, a rabbit BBQ! Would you prefer to be eaten rare, medium, or Cajun style?
Had some Ezell’s a couple nights ago (there’s a store in Woodinville), and I’ll bet they could do you up real good! Accompanied by their cole slaw, mashed potatoes and gravy, and topped off by that peach cobbler…Mmmm! A use for rabbits after all!
The Piper
Tim Eyman @ 13
Maybe Tim Eyman could sponsor an initiative to do away with the Port of Seattle property tax? Next year, it will be $80 million from King County property owners to subsidize shipping interests, up from only $35 million when I first ran for port commission back in 1999.
It needs to be better than I-776, to deal with the problem of property tax revenues that are “bonded” to service existing debt. Perhaps require that any property tax revenues not actually required to service existing bonds shall be refunded to the taxpayers after the end of the year in which they are collected. That way, if the Port of Seattle contracted with bond holders to charge $60 million per year in property taxes during the life of the bond issue, but only needs $23 million per year to pay off the bonds, then the remaining $37 million is still collected — as the contract requires — but refunded to the taxpayers after the year is finished.
Has Christine Gregoire even proposed any progressive property tax reform? Or is she waiting for Dino Rossi to champion the idea?
Senator Gorton also was rude to veterans. The Vietnam War was fought with draftees (and volunteers) who were paid almost nothing. You gave the military 2, 3, or 4 years of your life and got out of service with the shirt on your back, a few hundred dollars in savings, and a Japanese camera, if you were lucky.
Immediately after the Vietnam War ended, Congress eliminated the draft and created the Volunteer Army. To get people to enlist, military pay was tripled, recruits were offered fat enlistment bonuses, and they also go much more generous educational allowances. None of these goodies were made retroactively applicable to Vietnam Veterans.
So, around 1976 or so, I wrote a letter to Senator Slade the Indian Fighter and Veteran Hater suggesting Congress do more for Vietnam Veterans, for example maybe a student loan forgivenes program to help Vietnam Veterans who had borrowed money to attend college because they got such puny V.A. benefits.
Senator Slade was kind enough to answer my letter, although the answer itself wasn’t kind. It was curt, abrupt, and nasty. The gist was I should shut up and pay my student loans instead of asking for welfare. I think I still have that letter around here someplace, and maybe one of these days I’ll dig it out and frame it and hang it on the wall of my burrow as a reminder of how Republicans support the troops they claim to support.
Somehow, the voters of this state, in their infinite wisdom, decided that despite Senator Slade’s endearing personal qualities and principled stands on issues (such as no fish for Indians and no welfare for Vietnam Veterans), they liked Maria better. Ever since then, they’ve liked her better than any Republican. I can’t imagine how that happened. After all, some people thought Senator Slade was practically a saint. He thought he was, too, and all the redneck Indian haters thought he was.
The best thing about that whole Indian business is that it was Indian voters who provided Maria her winning margin. The second best thing about it is that Judge Boldt, who decided the Indians were entitled to half the fish, wasn’t a liberal pinko judge. He was one of theirs. A Republican, I mean. George Boldt was a hard-nosed, hard-core, hard-right Republican who, until the famous fishing case came along, was chiefly famous for imposing maximum sentences on draft protesters. If you refused to report for the draft, the Republican prosecutors appointed by Nixon always tried to get your case assigned to Judge Boldt because he would give you 5 years, the maximum sentence the law allowed. He was universally regarded as a hanging judge when it came to conscientious objectors.
As state attorney general, Slade and his sidekick Jim Johnson built their political careers on the backlash against the Boldt Decision on fishing rights. They demagogued that issue as much as they could, and both of those men were instrumental in fomenting anti-Indian hatred in this state. So, it’s not surprising the Indians had it in for him. And, in the end, they got their satisfaction at the ballot box.
@48 The best way to lower your property taxes is insist on the Port of Seattle being self-sufficient. The POS is the only major west coast port that collects taxes. All the others are self-supporting.
@52 “To you self-immolation; to us, a rabbit BBQ! Would you prefer to be eaten rare, medium, or Cajun style?”
If you need a rabbit for your barbecue, come to my burrow at 9 PM, and make sure you bring a gun.
@57 I look forward to adding Piper to my taxidermy collection.
@54 “Has Christine Gregoire even proposed any progressive property tax reform?”
Why should she? Our property taxes are reasonable compared to other states. I’d much rather see Gregoire support the Gates Commission recommendations.
@4 To each his own. I prefer our worst driver to your best hunter.
@7 No, thank you. The problems of Proposition 13 are well documented, and we don’t need those problems in our state — from degradation of education and public services to the gross tax inequities it produces. Another thing that Prop. 13 has done is strait-jacket California’s real estate market and create urban sprawl. Because of the huge tax penalty incurred by selling a home, people stay in the smae house for decades, then bequeath it to family members, so the only way young people or new arrivals can acquire a place to live is by buying new construction which usually is located far from employment centers. Prop. 13 is a piece of shit and Washington voters soundly rejected it when it was put on the ballot here.
@12 Timmy, is there some reason why you forgot to mention the higher costs of government due to population growth? Inflation isn’t the whole story, you know. You want to count revenue growth that comes from expanding the tax base via new construction, but you fail to mention increased government costs because of a larger population. Why? Isn’t this gaming the numbers?
@14 “Support for higher Ed. The voters speak on this all the time.”
SJ, I find your Gregoire-bashing tiresome, in part because you don’t know what you’re talking about. Gregoire added 5,000 spaces to our public college system. That’s not enough, but it’s 5,000 more than you would have got from Rossi. Gregoire stuck her political neck out to support collective bargaining rights and pay raises for state and higher ed employees; you wouldn’t have got that from a Republican governor. Gregoire implemented the teacher pay and class size initiatives that voters approved while defeating the funding initiative for them. There has been plenty of bold, effective leadership from this governor, particularly on education issues, and I think it’s time you started giving her the credit she has earned.
@16 He’s referring to the class war being waged by the rich against workers and the middle class.
Richard Pope
I like you r idea, How hard wouild it be to get an initiative like this passed?
I would go one step further. I would like to see a requirement for a “Tax impact Statement” to be applied to all private construction over some thresh hold. It is bizar that the taxpayers of Seattle are going to pay higher taxes because of Vulcan;s construction of housing few of the current resident sof Seattle can afford.
If we could pass such an initiative for pro basketball teams why not for pr developers?
@17 The last thing this blog needs is another troll sore loser whining about an election. Republicans think if they lost the Democrats must have cheated. It never occurs to them that Washington voters just don’t like Republicans. Our voters are too smart to fall for GOP bullshit.
“Real friends don’t let friends vote Republican”
@19 “Gregoire started strong and has been going downhill ever since.”
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR You guys are funny! Gregoire started out with an approval rating in the 30s (thanks to the GOP hate-propaganda against her) and now has an approval rating above 50%! This time, she’s going to wipe the floor with Rossi.
@61
If we don’t want urban sprawl, why are we subsidizing ferry fares (farebox revenues cover about 10% of annual O&M and capital costs) to enable people to work in Seattle but sleep (and provide their sales and property tax revenue) to Vashon and Bainbridge?
Governments get property taxes from multiple sources — when all these sources are added together, it’s much higher than inflation. They get property tax revenue from the 1%, from new construction, from improvements, from annexations, from real estate excise taxes, from valuation jumps, and from voter approved levies (levy lid lifts have a 70% success rate with the voters).
Not fire districts. They have one source of revenue to provide fire services: property taxes. The 1% aggregate limit does not allow them to keep up with inflation and demand for service. They are forced to run lid lifts year after year to maintain existing levels of service. They can’t budget or plan for anything beyond the next year. That’s a bad way to run things, and that’s why a 1% aggregate limit doesn’t make any sense.
If you want to reimpose 747, fine. But exempt fire districts.
And the whole “new construction” argument is a bunch of crap, too. New construction creates new demand for government services. Here’s what I posted way back in 2005 on this very blog, and it applies equally now:
And one last post — just to cut off the “new construction” argument argument at the pass before somebody tries to make it.
Lots of people claim that governments will be okay under 747 because new construction is exempt from the 1% aggregate limit. This is true, sorta. New construction *may* allow government to maintain its existing service levels as of 2001 (when 747 passed), but that’s a big maybe. The problem is that new construction creates new demands on government services, so generally you need more people to provide service, not the same amount. When you have a ton of new people move into an area, you need to build new fire stations, hire new firefighters, hire new cops, etc. Let me give you an example.
The Sammamish plateau (now the city of Sammamish) had 1 fire station staffed with volunteers up until the late 80’s. It had seen extreme growth during the 80’s, creating a vastly increased demand for service for the fire district serving that area. So they built 2 new fire stations, and by the late 90’s staffed all three stations with full-time firefighters to deal with this new demand. They were able to do that because of new construction, which provided revenues for *new* levels of service.
How would that have worked had 747 been in effect? The new construction would’ve probably allowed them to maintain their existing levels of service — i.e. that one volunteer fire station. They would not have been able to keep up with the vastly increased demand for service, and would not have been able to build those two new fire stations and hire staff for all three stations, because 747 would have only let them maintain their existing levels of service. Basically, houses would burn down, and people would die.
Somewhere in the state you will see the same explosive growth that you did in Samammish. The difference is, under 747, that place might be able to keep the level of service it has right now. It will not be able to plan for the future, and provide the level of service demanded by its citizens.
I have no faith that voters recognized these sorts of obscure, yet dramatic, impacts when they approved 747.
A 1% aggregate property tax limit has no real justification other than to destroy the ability of local governments to provide the service that their citizens demand. If Eyman wants local government to go away, fine. Then run an initiative cutting programs. But don’t lie about the intended consequences. Gregoire shouldn’t buy into his dishonesty.
222 “You are free to mail in as much money, over and above the assessed rate, as you see fit. The government will gladly take it.”
You don’t know much about bureaucrats, do you? If you sent in more than you owe, they’d have a conniption. It would screw up their bookkeeping. Someone would have to do extra work. Try donating money to the government and see what happens. They’ll put you through so many hoops you’ll never do it again.
@24 Don’t get your hopes up, George. While countless Democrats are frustrated with their spineless Democratic congressmen for not standing up to the Bushevik regime, that does NOT mean they’re going to vote for Republican candidates! Just because we hate our congressmen doesn’t mean we like yours! And I don’t think the independent bloc will rush to put the GOP Culture of Corruption back in power, either.
In addition, the GOP is guaranteed to lose Senate seats in ’08 because they have 22 seats up for grabs compared to 12 Democratic seats, and they have 5 to 7 senators retiring, compared to none among the Democrats.
Democrats will make hefty gains in both houses in ’08, in addition to capturing the White House.
@33 “Tim Eyeman, from the bottom of my heart I want to thank you for your initiatives that have saved me thousands of dollars over the years.”
Eyman hasn’t saved you anything. All his initiatives have either been defeated or thrown out by the courts. Eyman still can’t write an initiative that’s legal. You got your tax cuts from a succession of Democratic governors and Democratic legislators.
@40 “Next year my property tax bill will grow by over three thousand dollars due to a huge increase in the valuation of my property.”
Since the property tax on a typical $400,000 home is about $3,500, the only way this can happen is if you own a multimillion-dollar home.
A doubling of assessed value does NOT translate into a doubling of your property tax!
When property values rise across the board, the tax burden is spread across a large tax base, with the result that the tax rate per $1,000 declines.
@70…RR…
Oh, really? A couple years ago, the King County treasury literally looted my bank account in a “help yourself” effort. I wrote two checks to cover property taxes, one from a brokerage account, one from a Bank of America account. Together, they totaled the amount owed, but King County cashed the smaller of the two (brokerage account), then proceeded to debit my BofA account…for the whole amount of the tax bill!
I had checks bouncing higher than Son of Flubber as a result…King County ripped me off to the tune of an additional $1,500! And when I called to try to get it rectified, after discovering the mess due to receiving NSF notices in spades, I was told there was nothing to be done for several days because, in the words used, “The girl who handles that is on vacation.”
Vacation? No doubt with $1,500 extra dollars of mine! Not being the shy and retiring type, I kept climbing the KC food chain until I got a supervisor. That plus e-mails to the entire KC Council, all of whom know who I am, got some action.
While I still had to jump through County hoops, BofA bent over backwards to make it right, so I had no complaint with the bank.
So much for governmental efficiency and a huge reason I supported I-25…The attitude of county employees to THEIR CUSTOMERS was, “screw you, and there’s nothing you can do about it!” Oh, yes there was! And I did it!
As an aside…the federal government receives voluntary contributions all the time. If state or local government isn’t equipped to handle something similar, or if the employees who receive them become so flummoxed by them that they can’t figure out what to do with them, then I submit that the lot of them shouldn’t be entrusted with the money sent that has to be sent.
Bureaucratic ineptitude like that reminds me of another story about an Indonesian customs official in Biak, off the coast of New Guinea…but I’ll save that for another time.
Frankly, if what you say is true, then it would be my delight to send them an additional $1 each time something has to go in just for the entertainment value.
The Piper
“You got your tax cuts from a succession of Democratic governors and Democratic legislators.”
Har Har Har Har Har Har Har
Oh now that is funny!
HEY GOLDY GUESS ITS EASY FOR YOU TO WANT HIGHER TAXES SINCE YOU DONT HAVE A JOB.OH THATS RIGHT YOU HAVE A RADIO SHOW.HELL 2 NIGHTS A WEEK @6.50 A HOUR ILL BET YOU PAY A LOT IN TAXES BUT ITS NICE OF YOU TO WANT TO SPEND EVERYONES TAX MONEY.YOUR A DOUCHBAG.
Well, everybody knows that government is infinitely wasteful; so you can endlessly cut funding and still get the same level of service.
Who needs complicated realities when you can live life in simplified soundbites?
74-
What a dipshit. You bitch about how wasteful government is; but when staffing is pared down to the point where there is only one person assigned to the department where YOU need help, you bitch about having to wait when that person is not available to help you. Well, you get what you pay for, asshole.
And if that much idiotic ranting is not enough, you drone on, stupidly accusing the low-level government clerk of vacationing on your $1500. Yeah, I’m sure that’s exactly what happened–because everyone knows that every clerk in government just has to walk over to the big government vault-o-cash when they want some spending money.
There seems to be no shortage of morons who’ve apparently decided that spewing stupid baseless accusations are more fun than facing the harsh realities of the logical result of underfunding government.
Piper Scott @ 74
Your property taxes would be over $1,000 per year less if your neighborhood was annexed to the People’s Republic of Kirkland.
@74 And it’s their fault you can’t manage your finances?
@74 Of course, crackpiper’s not telling you the whole story. There are only 2 ways King County Finance could debit his bank account. And, as a former lawyer, piper knows this; so we can assume his withholding of this information from you is intentional.
1) He signed an ETF authorization.
2) They reduced the unpaid property taxes to judgment, obtained a garnishment order, and served the bank — all with the notice to Mr. Piper that due process requires.
If they took money from his bank account without one of the above authorizations, he can sue them, and he knows it. As he hasn’t said he sued them, we can assume he has not, and piper being a former lawyer, we can also assume the till tap of his bank account was lawful and done with full due process.
@75 It’s also true, so the joke is on you.
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
@74 Your petit whining about the county’s enforcement of your property tax delinquency is beside the point, though. Your comment @74 is completely nonresponsive to my comment about what happens to people who try to donate money to the government. You start out by saying, “Oh, really?” which makes it sound like you’re going to challenge what I said, then wander off on a tangent into your pathetic tale of woe. Go find some other shoulder to weep on; I’m not your personal crying towel. If you can’t even figure out how to pay your property taxes, it’s a good thing you’re not a lawyer anymore. I hope, for their sake, that you never had any clients when you WERE a lawyer.
We now know that crackpiper, in addition to offering to engage in the unauthorized practice of law on his business web site, is a property tax scofflaw. He’s the same ilk as Martin Selig. Which brings up another point: Do you stiff City Light, too, piper?
@74 “That plus e-mails to the entire KC Council, all of whom know who I am”
I’m not at all surprised to hear this. Based on what we have learned to date about your character, I assume the police and IRS know who you are, too.
@74 You think that was bad, that’s nothing, just try donating money to them and see what happens.
One time an ATM machine gave me extra money so I called the bank where the machine was. They told me it wasn’t their ATM machine, even though it was affixed to their building. After a big runaround, they gave me the name of a company to call, so I called that company. After more run around, I finally got to talk to a manager, who said I could mail their money back to them if I insisted on it, but made it clear in no uncertain terms that they didn’t appreciate it and the next time something like that happened they would like for me to keep the money and keep my mouth shut.
What was going on, of course, is that accepting the money meant the accountant would have to do ledge entries to account for it, the manager would have to write a report, and there would be a paper trail of the fact a machine he was responsible for was giving free money to customers.
There was a time in this country when honesty was considered a virtue. Eisenhower was president then. But he retired, and the GOP hasn’t been the same since.
@79…RP…
Wrong on both counts…City staff estimates predict a slight decline in property tax assessments across the board.
And annexation ain’t happenin’. Existing Kirkland citizens want it about as much as they want a case of crabs, and both staff and the Kirkland City Council increasingly realize this to the point where, at a recent KCC study session, it was reported to me by a well placed source that staff presented increasingly gloomy estimates of both projected revenue (despite a 10-year state subsidy earmarked for the purpose of greasing Kirkland annexation skids) and increased costs resulting from annexation.
That the KCC race between Jessica Greenway and Penny Sweet (looks as though Greenway keeps the seat) was so close and hard fought is attributed, in part, to voter dislike of what they perceive Council desires are on annexation.
Another source advised me that a nose count of the current KCC has annexation failing if the vote was to be taken today. Slated for December, however, you can still look for it to fail. Council members up for re-election next go round wouldn’t have voters in the Proposed Annexation Areas of Kingsgate, Finn Hill, and Upper Juanita to fall back on – we wouldn’t be “citizens” yet – while the voters they do have give every indication of being in a vengeful mood should annexation proceed.
So, within a couple months, it’s “back to the drawing board” including revisiting the issue with the Boundary Review Board and, probably, re-drawing maps, re-aligning boundaries, and parcelling out parts of each PAA to different Eastside cities, namely a bit (not all) to Kirkland and some each to Bothell, Kenmore, and Woodinville.
Leaving us as an urbanized area in un-incorporated King County isn’t an option…Ron Sims’ office has made it quite clear that we’re to be annexed no matter what, and his office has squeezed the PAAs from a service standpoint such that a response to a 911 call is now measured with a calendar. Additionally, the GMA pushes urbanized areas toward annexation, so it’s simply a matter of time and now, given recent events that increasingly point in that direction, a question of to whom.
Not all interesting politics are rooted in Bush/Cheney, Christine Gregoire, Tim Eyman, or The Darcy (“Am I blonde enough for you?”). This local municipal stuff offers plenty upon which to chew, and the alliances born of necessity bugger party or ideological divides, a refreshing change of pace.
The Piper
@80…RR…
Hey! Let some jackanape cop $1,500 from your account without telling you and see what happens to even the most balanced of checkbooks.
Since, though, only humans can open such accounts, I’m certain you don’t have one, and no one in his right mind would care to root about in that stash of moldy carrots you have squirreled in your underground hutch.
BTW…what do rabbits eat for Thanksgiving?
The Piper
@81…RR…
Wrong on both counts. I loath EFTs, I’m a paper check guy because I prefer to actually be in charge of the disbursement of my funds.
What I did was exactly as stated: sent two checks for the total tax bill in a timely manner, and King County, through an employee, incorrectly debited my account by processing one of the two checks for the entire amount of the bill. So, don’t accuse me of being a liar and assuming that your rodent brain has a monopoly on possible scenarios – I lived it, you didn’t so shut your carrot hole!
At the end of the day, I was made more or less whole, and I received a written apology from King County. At that point, suing anyone would only have been gratuitous and mercenary. That you scratch your head over my failure to litigate tells me that gratuitous and mercenary must be default modes for you, although your attempt to return the ATM overdose does mitigate in your favor.
It’s Thanksgiving, bunny, you don’t have to be a jerk all the time…
The Piper
@84…RR…
I don’t stiff anyone! And since I obviously don’t live in a Seattle City Light service area, it’s literally impossible for me to stiff what I cannot owe.
The Piper
@50: Flawlessly argued, Mr. Pope. Have you ever considered running for political office? Good men like you too often stay above the fray. You would be sacrificing privacy and splendid isolation from controversy, but please think about taking the plunge into the political pool. A desperate nation needs you.
@ 53: “Maybe Tim Eyman could sponsor an initiative to do away with the Port of Seattle property tax?”
Maybe Tim Eyman could sponsor an initiative to do away with Seattle.
@ 55: Casino-Americans gave Caca Maria her winning margin? It was Dean Logan.
You have a letter in your burrow from Saint Slade. I have a letter in my plutocrat populist mansion from (drumroll) my very own private homeboy, rootin’ tootin’ cowboy Big Swingin’ Dick Cheney. I wrote to him in 1992 that I would support the GOP ticket if Cheney were on it, preferably at the top. He replied that it had been a pleasure working for George Herbert Walker Bush. I almost voted for Clinton.
@61: Oh please. Those well-demonstrated problems of Prop 13 were smokescreen pretexts for the liberal problem of liberally aiding the reconquista of California. Viva ole’.
@66: Dear whining sore loser troll: Check your own stinking skein of posts from the horse’s ass. It seems like only yesterday that you were sniveling and whimpering about the theft of elections by dastardly Diebold. Grow up. Get lost.
Still want to save a soft spot for Roger Tuleremia at your Thanksgiving table? Or want to ladle him up from a tureen at your Thanksgiving table?
Either way, you better rebut 81 & 84. Then butt the little shitass into the cesspool that he jumped out of.
OK. Found the first installment of the rebuttal.
Am a little behind (about 32 years) in my reading, so finally got around to Watership Down. Will let everyone know if the rabblit gets it in the end.
As for expecting a mean-spirited Goldycrat to back off and be nice on Thanksgiving, think again. Tomorrow is a day of shame, mourning, rage, and getting even.